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The copy

by justray
20 replies
I've been reading a few posts lately that have been discussing page copy and humor, as a creative way to garner attention on landing pages. My question is: where is that fine line? How much humor can you place in the copy before it begins to look amateur? I guess some products would lend themselves better to it than others. I guess I'm just trying to find the "happy medium."
#copy
  • Profile picture of the author mgreener
    Not much. If your only intention is to entertain, then that's fine. People looking for information/solutions want to get to the goods.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Not a good idea to introduce humor. Full stop.

      Your idea of humor introduced into any sales copy in the form of a joke might not be your hot targets sense of humor. Result?...

      You run the risk of losing the sale altogether, all for the sake of trying to come across as more 'human'.

      There's no point introducing these kind of negative filters into your sales copy. Given all of the word choices available to you, you want to do everything within your power to enable a chosen action to take place. Offend your target buyers who might not share your sense of humor and the sale could potentially be lost.

      Is this a risk you're willing to take?

      Commonsense would say, "No!"

      Smoking hot,


      Mark Andrews

      P.S. Of course it's niche dependent.

      If for example you're selling an eBook all about comedy standup then of course it might be okay.

      Or if you're selling a guide all about how to tell jokes to have other people wetting themselves with laughter - fair enough.

      Anything else though - steer well clear of it.

      There are many more options in the form of written language on the table readily available for you to take advantage of to connect the benefits of a product to your target buyers pain point than to even consider attempting humor on a sales page of any kind.
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      • Profile picture of the author justray
        Thank you! Point well taken.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Using humor in copy is tricky for the following reasons:

    1. Not everybody finds the same things humorous.
    2. The humor can backfire if it offends your audience.
    3. If the humor is too good then it can overshadow your message.
    4. Your product must match the 'mood' created by the humor
    5. The humor may not lead to the action you want your prospect to make.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    In the name of all that is holy...

    Sometimes it's just not appropriate. But usually you can use a bit of humor. Your prospects don't want to wade through a dire dialogue of despair and misery. Or a boring monologue lacking any personality.

    Lighten it up a little bit for goodness sake.

    Just be a careful with humor - don't overdo it. Never insult people, stay a million miles away from race or religious jokes. And don't do gags. Or use humor just for the sake of it. Humor is subjective. Match it to your message. Make sure your people "get" it.

    The safest and most fun way - use "situational" humor, or be a touch self deprecating, or show that you are real and alive. Not robotic and half dead.

    Yes, you're trying to sell whatever the product or service is but do give a little entertainment as your doing it.

    If you can make people smile - they are much more likely to buy.



    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Not the best advice in the world Steve especially given to a newbie.

      The OP would be best off ignoring this and taking Raydal and my points aboard. Sorry Steve but your logic is flawed with this advice. Really.

      Nobody is saying without humor sales copy needs to be depressing or boring to read. This is a false argument. A fallacy.

      In a newbies hands, writing sales copy which they obviously want to be as successful as possible conversion wise, introduce humor and they're running a much greater risk of not getting the sale if the person upon reading the 'joke' in the sales copy doesn't emotionally connect with said sense of humor.

      As I said above, why introduce a filter into your sales copy when there's no need for that filter in the first place?

      When the word choices in front of you are so limitless, why introduce wording into your sales copy which could potentially have the opposite effect to the one intended?

      Would you be willing to pay this price, all for the sake of hoping by gum your target audience 'gets it'?

      Would you be willing to pay over and over again $7 / $47 / $497 / $997 or more just to have an otherwise very hot lead leave your sales copy because you thought it a good idea to pop in a joke or two 'to 'lighten things up'?

      Potentially that sense of humor of yours in sales copy whether for yourself or your clients, it could be a hellishly expensive price to pay if your own sense of humor backfires on the very people you're trying to bring on side.

      Question is, how much is each word used in sales copy costing you in lost sales as opposed to how much is each word, of each sentence, of each paragraph, potentially making you in revenue and profit?

      Smoking hot,


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Mark,

    Well you might be right - reading your post wasn't exactly a laugh a minute.

    But I have to say...

    I don't agree with you.

    A few words of situational humor or a dash of self deprecating humor is unlikely to ever lose a sale.

    It's much more likely to gain sales.


    Steve


    P.S. A good example of this is Jim Rutz's immortal and epic piece "Read This or Die"

    It got an exceptional - off the charts into the stratosphere - response.

    Every copywriter at the time wished they had written it. And probably still do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Regardless Steve...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-dry-copy.html

      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post


      That said, trying to sell with "funny" can be risky. It can backfire on you very easily because the public is full of idiots and assholes. Sad fact of life. What you and I find hilarious as genuinely outgoing personality types others can find crass and annoying.

      So, the point is... while dry may be "boring" it doesn't usually ALIENATE...

      I guess what I'm saying is: if you're going to do funny, it better be funny...

      : )
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post


      Another way of asking the same question is try naming all the
      top selling sales letters that employed humor.

      The vast majority of veteran copywriters suggests that you go
      easy on trying to use humor to sell, except of course you are
      selling humor.

      I've used humor in my copywriting, but with a definite point of
      not just making the reader laugh but to build rapport with him.

      You should never 'force' a joke into your copy just to be funny.

      -Ray Edwards
      Originally Posted by mr.steve View Post


      Humor in advertising? Let's see what the masters say...

      First up to the podium... the great (alas late) Gary Halbert...

      "Where do you start [to get a marketing education]?
      What's the first step if you are at ground zero?
      Well, it sure as hell isn't to go to a marketing convention!
      No. The very first step is to become grounded in the
      basic and enduring principles that are the foundation
      of every successful direct marketing effort. And, the
      way you do this is by reading and re-reading the most
      important advertising book ever written which is...

      Scientific Advertising
      - by Claude Hopkins

      ...And the reason you should read this particular book
      several times, before you read anything else is, it will
      give you a hard-core, bedrock foundation of truth
      that will make it difficult for other authors who are
      'pretend experts' to lead you astray with their 'silly
      notions' about what makes marketing work."

      Next up to the podium, the man who wrote this
      excellent book... the great (alas late) Claude Hopkins
      himself...

      "Don’t try to be amusing. Money spending is a
      serious matter."

      "Ads are not written to interest, please or amuse.
      You are not writing to please the hoi-polloi. You are
      writing on a serious subject — the subject of money
      spending. And you address a restricted minority."

      "There are two things about which men should
      not joke. One is business, one is home. An eccentric
      picture may do you serious damage. One may gain
      attention by wearing a fool’s cap. But he would
      ruin his selling prospects."

      That about sums it up for me. Humor works very
      seldom. People love the humor. They seldom buy
      the product.

      Cheers

      Steve
      Originally Posted by Harlan View Post


      The results/bottom line is what counts.

      Bottom line - humor does not sell in copy.

      Old rule still applies.
      Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post


      First... the real men of genius ads are brilliant.

      Second... I'm one of the few DR copywriters who disagrees with Hopkins on this.

      I think his rule should be that MOST writers shouldn't use humor. Just like MOST people aren't funny.

      There's a right way... and a wrong way to use humor even in DR.

      Before moving to direct response writing in 2006, I spent the previous 22 years as a stand up comic and later a television comedy writer.

      Most people shouldn't do that either.

      So... don't use humor unless you're proven already to be funny. And being the "clown" at work doesn't count. There is an art and craft to writing humor. If you don't know how, it's very dangerous territory.

      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Mark,

    Reading between the lines, I think the good people are saying - "don't try and be a stand up comic". And don't use humor if you have no earthly idea how to do it. And beware that it could backfire. So always be careful.

    And I totally agree.

    All I suggested was a little bit of humor (not gags and use the methods I mentioned in thread 6).

    Making sure it is in the right place at the right time - can make a sales piece more enjoyable for the poor beleaguered reader. Chances are their life isn't be rollicking in fun. At least let them have a smile. It can bump up the sales.

    Now this obviously isn't your view. So can we just agree to disagree.

    Because it's important that we all write in our own styles.

    And if I think humor will help increase the response I'll use it. You don't have to.


    Steve


    P.S. You might like to read the comments in thread 2 on this post


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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Steve

      There is no reading between the lines.

      What we're talking about here, as it were not patently obvious, is the fact that advocating a newbie such as the OP asking the question, is that using humor in sales copy, no argument about it - it's not a good idea. Period.

      Highly experienced copywriters such as ourselves, we might get away with it because we understand all the psychological nuances involved with the words we choose to connect a product or service to the targeted audience emotions. We know how to create the bridge without upsetting the apple cart.

      But the OP is not a highly experienced copywriter. Therefore saying, from our perspective only, that it's a good idea for them to attempt to do the same, even though they do not have the same level of experience, this logic is flawed.

      Ray has many choices which words to use to connect his product or service to his intended market and his risk of losing the sale is significantly reduced by sticking to the basics of writing highly effective sales copy.

      Introducing humor, in the hands of an inexperienced copywriter or someone new to the game is most definitely not the way to go.

      Now you can argue the point as far as I'm concerned until the cows come home but it's not going to alter the fact one little bit.

      Newbies, inexperienced copywriters should not attempt to use humor in sales copy unless they're absolutely certain that doing so will increase the response rate. In the meantime, they have other much more viable options to explore which undoubtedly can and will work for them much better to boost their conversion rate.

      End of.


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    We wouldn't tell a "newbie" copywriter not to use a P.S. (one of the most crucial parts on a sales piece) because they might make a hash of it would we?

    So again in the right situation and using the best techniques (which are not difficult to grasp) a "newbie" can if they wish and feels they can manage it - use a bit of humor.

    It's by no means the most vital part of a piece but it rarely does any damage and it usually helps bring a touch of personality to the copy.

    If the good prospect is kind enough to start reading the "pitch" from all the clutter that bombards them. Make it the highlight of their day. As I said earlier at least let them have a smile. They tend to like you for making that happen.

    And when they like you - they are much more likely to buy.

    But as you say.

    That's it.

    End of.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    This thread is funny.

    Badoom pish.
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    Brian McLeod
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      This thread is funny.

      Badoom pish.
      Then it shouldn't be in the copywriting forum.

      -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    You see humor does work...

    lol

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert_Rand
    Steve,

    I think a lot of marketers overlook this. "Likeability" can be very powerful.

    I don't necessarily disagree with other opinions here. The objective of sales copy is not humor. Of course not. If you're not sure if it's appropriate, then the answer is no. But humor used appropriately - just like in a face to face presentation - can go a long way to establish trust. Done effectively, it creates authenticity.

    The thing about humor is it's never funny if you're not in the moment. People always assume the person asking is going to botch it. (And they're probably right.)

    Self depreciating works best. Plain old subtle humor can work too. Even poking a little fun at the prospect. For example, in this sales video about a minute in where he says, "Yikes"

    The Natural Fat Loss Solution

    Made me laugh anyway lol
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  • Profile picture of the author john newland
    I think humor works on sales letters, but you have to be careful. If anything, it should be an inside joke, that helps the reader feel like they're in a special group.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    Use humor in your copy at your peril.

    Most great sales letters in your swipe file don't use humor...hmmm...that says it all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Yes, but many of the best results ever produced sales letters did.

    Anyway this could go until we've all long gone.

    Choice 1 - Don't use humor

    Choice 2 - Use it sparingly in the right place at the best time


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    This topic comes up all the time. Good (old) thread on it here - http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...ales-copy.html

    Some of you are just repeating yourselves...almost verbatim.
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  • Profile picture of the author RonnieJSmith
    if you know your customer then why not? But if you are not in touch with them they stay away and look professional. Like a blog owner who is in touch can use a little humor to well humor the readers but if a product vendor does use humor it can become embarassing for some buyers and they might not turn into future prospects. Testing will give you an answer.
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