My First Experience With Copywriters

26 replies
Fellow Warriors;

So for years I had heard how important it is to have someone else do my copy - and for years I had written my own. I was from the Cory Rudl school of long copy and had decided it was time to finally up my game.

So I began to look over some of the coptwriters here on the WF (and a few other places) and low and behold I selected a few to help me with several projects I was doing.

I realize not every copywriter will fit into this box but at least in my experience here is what I encountered.

1. Arrogant - The majority of respondents (4) all seemed a bit condescending and out right know it all. One of the 4 I tried to hire actually insulted my original copy on two separate sites - both of which are earning me money each month. I agree there was room for improvement but is this traditionally how most copywriters behave?

2. Overpriced - $$$$ prices ranging from $250.00 with NO proven track record to as high as $3,000.00. Jeepers. Ok good copy is worth it I am told.

Little Or NO Communication Each copywriter seemed to care less about communication and keeping me posted on progress. It was as if what they were doing was mystical / magical and I couldn't have a look behind the curtain.

Final Product Is Questionable At Best One of the copywriters could not even finish in 2 weeks writing under 1200 words and actually had to refund me
what I paid. The other three delivered in my opinion, really crappy copy that was an embarrassment to consider putting on my sites.

So what is a marketer to do? I realize this may not be typical, but it sure seems so for what I experienced. Has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks for your input. I am not against payng for good copy just seems like more due diligence is required when looking to find a qualified copywriter.
#copywriter #experience
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by Neromancer View Post

    2. Overpriced - $$$$ prices ranging from $250.00 with NO proven track record to as high as $3,000.00. Jeepers. Ok good copy is worth it I am told.
    If $3K is "high" for you then you will continue getting the typical
    experience you are having right now. You can't have low price and
    high returns.

    I had to recently change my website to indicate that $3,000 was
    the minimum I will write copy for so do not even fill a query
    from if you don't have that amount to invest.

    It takes a lot of self confidence to place yourself out there as
    a copywriter and I think this is what is often interpreted by
    some people as "arrogance" the same way in which most
    great leaders are considered tough and impatient, even
    rude.

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8079064].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      It takes a lot of self confidence to place yourself out there as
      a copywriter and I think this is what is often interpreted by
      some people as "arrogance" the same way in which most
      great leaders are considered tough and impatient, even
      rude.
      -Ray Edwards
      Arrogance, impatience and rudeness are not good (or acceptable) qualities to exhibit in any business relationship.

      Alex
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8079080].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        Arrogance, impatience and rudeness are not good (or acceptable) qualities to exhibit in any business relationship.

        Alex
        What makes you think that I don't agree with this?

        -Ray Edwards
        Signature
        The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8079646].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ECTally
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post


      I had to recently change my website to indicate that $3,000 was
      the minimum I will write copy for so do not even fill a query
      from if you don't have that amount to invest.
      Oh my. Clearly I've taken a wrong path somewhere along the line.
      It takes me a solid two weeks worth of writing and research to make that kind of money, Ray.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8152964].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jay walters
        Originally Posted by ECTally View Post

        Oh my. Clearly I've taken a wrong path somewhere along the line.
        It takes me a solid two weeks worth of writing and research to make that kind of money, Ray.
        You might be yes... but there's a way to increase your fees with the right positioning,
        to the right client and within in the right market...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8652997].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author NellyColby
          There must be a balance somewhere. A good copywriter is worth the money, but the clients always try to pay less, and it's normal from their point of view. However, a decent writer knows very well his/her value and cannot accept to write for pennies.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8655240].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    2. Overpriced - $$$$ prices ranging from $250.00 with NO proven track record to as high as $3,000.00. Jeepers. Ok good copy is worth it I am told.
    What did you pay each copywriter?

    Alex
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8079068].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Don Grace
    The other three delivered in my opinion, really crappy copy that was an embarrassment to consider putting on my sites.
    Now depending on what you paid these people (dirt cheap I'm assuming) then I bet you're right. On the other hand, without testing do you really know? Opinion means nothing without testing.

    I don't take clients very often these days, but I did recently for a friend of a client that I made 25MM in sales for. He didn't like the initial angle I went with and prejudged everything based on... well I don't know honestly, preconceived notions I presume.

    So I told him (Not being arrogant) "Look, I know a thing or two about what I'm doing, at least test it"... No problem since then.

    When you hire a quality copywriter with a proven track record, let them do their thing. Your bank account will thank you. If you knew how to do it or what it should convey to get folks to hit the buy button, you wouldn't be using their services... Just be sure and hire an expert and not a $250.00 article writer. That will cost you far more in the long run.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8079193].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
    Neromancer,

    Did you track conversion before vs after?

    Did the copywriter increase your conversion?

    Without this information, your post is just venting (btw, that's okay to do. however, the name of the game in copywriting is conversion)

    Here's the dirty truth about hiring copywriters....

    for a copywriter to have +ROI, YOU (aka the owner) must have enough traffic to make the increase in conversion make you cash-flow positive, or the conversion increase must be great enough with current traffic to pay for itself. Check this site out:

    Conversion Calculator

    Did you purchase more traffic when you got the new copy?

    Now, as for your experience...

    most copywriters are assholes. It's true. You kinda have to be. Some are better are hiding it, but really, it takes a certain kinda person to do this kind of work.

    [I consider myself a lovable asshole. Like your Uncle, or something]

    As for professionalism, you are also correct. Most are artists who work just hard enough to pay the bills.

    If they had enough drive, they wouldn't be doing copywriting anymore.

    Now, there is a balance between being professional and able to get results BUT...

    that's the top of the class.

    And they aren't playing for pennies.

    I think your problem is you are successful, just not enough to be able to hire the type of person you WANT.

    Adam
    Signature

    The Most Bad-Ass Tax Reduction Strategist for Internet Marketers who HATE paying taxes. See my happy clients

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8079318].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Originally Posted by Neromancer View Post

    I am not against paying for good copy just seems like more due diligence is required when looking to find a qualified copywriter.
    Mike... more often than not... finding a copywriter with a proven track record of results, i.e. controls that are actively selling and being used... that's one of the best ways to whittle out the throngs of writers here, or anywhere.

    In this business... results are everything. Really, it is.

    If I'm hiring a copywriter, I could care less about samples... i just want controls or previous results. All else means little.

    A copywriters past results is often times a good indicator of future results, because if they've had kick ass results in the past, they probably know what they're doing.

    And for the most part... the lower the pay... the lower the quality. Not always, but it's just the way it is in this business.

    If you get results, you get busy. If you get busy, you can charge more.

    So, good copy = higher prices.

    The only time I even thought of charging less than $3,000 to $5,000 was when I was training and fully staffing my ad agency, so we took on a lot of fast, lower-paid jobs.

    But, as with most things in life/biz.... you get what you pay for.

    and if someone has the goods, you won't get them cheap.

    $250 for copy is the most expensive copy in the world if it doesn't convert.

    and yet, $10,000 is a bargain if it sells the sh*t out of stuff.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8079325].message }}
    • Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      Mike... more often than not... finding a copywriter with a proven track record of results, i.e. controls that are actively selling and being used... that's one of the best ways to whittle out the throngs of writers here, or anywhere.

      In this business... results are everything. Really, it is.

      If I'm hiring a copywriter, I could care less about samples... i just want controls or previous results. All else means little.

      A copywriters past results is often times a good indicator of future results, because if they've had kick ass results in the past, they probably know what they're doing.

      And for the most part... the lower the pay... the lower the quality. Not always, but it's just the way it is in this business.

      If you get results, you get busy. If you get busy, you can charge more.

      So, good copy = higher prices.

      The only time I even thought of charging less than $3,000 to $5,000 was when I was training and fully staffing my ad agency, so we took on a lot of fast, lower-paid jobs.

      But, as with most things in life/biz.... you get what you pay for.

      and if someone has the goods, you won't get them cheap.

      $250 for copy is the most expensive copy in the world if it doesn't convert.

      and yet, $10,000 is a bargain if it sells the sh*t out of stuff.

      Very thoughtful reply and I agree with you that copywriters should only increase the payment if their work is good. At least there is a point of them doing so
      Signature
      Start Making The Money You Deserve | Get Coaching.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8155565].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I wrote a brand new page for a guy on this forum once. He hounded me nearly every day asking how it was going, when's it gonna be ready, could he see what I had, etc. I had to politely tell him to leave me alone. I delivered on time as promised. He hated the copy and said it reminded him of a pitch for an acne cure. His product was nowhere near an acne cure. It was an extensive tutorial for a complex software product. He wanted a rewrite before even testing it.

    I told him, no way. Not until he put it up to test. Since I wasn't going to budge he posted the letter. And wouldn't you know... That sucker increased his sales like 500%. (It was really hard to measure the results as he didn't quite know how. Though to paraphrase, he went from a "few" lonely sales a week to "dozens." I tried to explain to him how to measure unique visits, etc. but he wasn't interested.

    Even with the dramatic improvement in his results there were still some issues with the offer. One was pricing. I won't go into the details but I did offer a very reasonable solution that would have increased sales even more. He wouldn't listen. Though he did continue to email me wanting me to tweak this, that and the other thing.

    I flat out refused. This was a guy who, when I asked who was buying his tutorial answered that he had no idea. He didn't even know who the potential market was. He created this course (absolutely excellent material, btw) without having done a lick of market research. Ugh. You can't make this stuff up, folks.

    The hardest thing about this assignment for me was figuring out who was buying what he had and coming up with a viable hook. It took awhile but I managed to hit it straight on by gauging what a competitor was up to and tweaking the approach.

    Soon after that I stopped taking clients and just write for myself. And I'm not even a copywriter.

    I'm not saying the OP is being a difficult client. I'm just trying to add a bit of perspective from the writer's point of view. It sounds like you got a few really lame writers. I'd love to know who they were. I know, we can't go there. Still...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8079935].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author urban renewal
    I should hope any copywriter you work with would at least be responsive and not arrogant.

    As far as overpriced... How much do you think a copywriter should charge?

    If $250 for an inexperienced copywriter is "overpriced" then you are basically saying that you don't think his copy could sell 5 more copies of a $47 ebook than you could on your own.

    And if $3000 is overpriced, then you don't believe he could sell 60 more copies than you could on your own.

    Good copy can run for years and still pull in money. Even a 5% improvement on conversions could be worth immeasurably more than $3000 over the life of your product if you know how to drive traffic to the offer.
    Signature

    -Clayton

    http://www.ClaytonTerao.com

    I'm a conversion consultant who helps you make more money online with your business.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8080177].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by urban renewal View Post

      Good copy can run for years and still pull in money. Even a 5% improvement on conversions could be worth immeasurably more than $3000 over the life of your product if you know how to drive traffic to the offer.
      Agreed.

      The one thing that always surprises me is that people will pour all of their time and money into developing a product, yet when it comes time to invest in things that will actually help the product sell, they try to go as low as they can go (not saying that the OP did this - just something I see a lot in general).

      A product rarely sells itself. Great copy can literally turn a "so-so" product into a superstar. Poor copy, on the other hand, will do the exact opposite.

      Honestly, it's all about finding a copywriter who you can see eye to eye with. You also need someone who isn't afraid to ask a lot of questions.

      Personally, I know there are times when my clients may get a little annoyed with how much stuff I may ask. I do it because I want to know everything I possibly can about their product and the target market.

      That way, it's easier for me to practically nail the copy the first time around.

      It also helps when a client knows as much as possible about their market and their product. The more info they can give me to dive into, the better the outcome.

      Like travelinguy said, it can be a nightmare working with someone who has no clue who they want to sell their product to. Just makes it that much harder for everyone involved.

      So if you're considering hiring a copywriter, make sure you've got your ducks in a row beforehand. When you do that, it will be easier to find one who jives with you and is on the same wavelength.
      Signature
      Want to speed up your writing and save time?
      This book will show you how:
      --> Write Fast: 21 Powerful Ways to Cut Your Writing Time in Half! <--
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8081703].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    There's an art to being a good client.

    I'm totally serious.

    You don't just contact copywriters and tell them what you're pitching. You have to take the time to connect as a person, first, before diving into your product and expectations.

    When someone emails me, fills out a form or picks up the phone and gives me a jingle, my very first inclination isn't to talk about the product... nope... I want to get a sense of who you are; your character, your integrity, your passion. Likewise, it's important for you, the client, to tap into my character and decide if I'm someone you want to do business with. After all, a lot of copywriters can craft converting copy for your product. That's just reality. The question is: What kind of experience do YOU want on your journey towards financial freedom?

    Keep in mind...

    Copywriters are eccentric.

    I know I am.

    I can be loud, obnoxious, pushy, in-your-face, inquisitive, empathetic, forceful, passionate, etc. Does my personality rub some people the wrong way? Hell yeah! And I love it. There are definitely certain types of people/clients I work best with. That's why I have an ideal client page on my website (which doesn't get read nearly enough by people who contact me.)

    My point is...

    Just like any relationship, you'll connect with different people - in different ways.

    Who cares if a copywriter comes across as being arrogant? Seriously? Who cares? If you don't want to do business with someone, don't. There are plenty of copywriters, on this board alone, who will adore your business.

    Ah, but here's the catch:

    A lot of people forget that converting copy is an investment. Keyword: Investment. If you honestly believe you can unlock a fortune... or even thousands of dollars for an investment that's just a few hundred bucks, you're naive. Can it be done? Sure. Does it happen often? Nope.

    Copy is expensive.

    Bad copy is more expensive. It can rape you of your desire to succeed, because poor results nurture a defeatist mindset. It can also ruin your reputation, which is priceless - if you didn't already know.

    The bottom line is...

    $3,000 is cheap for converting copy. CHEAP!

    (As I teach some of my clients...)

    Your investment in copy is a demonstration and representation of your belief in whether you'll succeed.

    When you have the design/illustration process, video production and traffic driving stuff all figured - BEFORE you hire your copywriter and you are excited about investing your money, magic happens.

    However...

    When you're always trying to get the biggest bang for your limited buck, you're results (or lack thereof) are (usually) smothered in mediocrity.

    If you're passionate about getting your product (or service) out there in a BIG way, do it right.

    If you're just trying to pimp something out you're really not all that passionate about, any amount of money is too big of an investment - because without the genuine excitement of truly impacting people's lives in amazing ways, you're just chasing the cheap buck.

    Anyway...

    There are a lot of reasons why a copywriter/client relationship is good, great, orgasmic... or just plain sucky.

    By the way...

    This isn't necessarily directed at the OP...

    ...it's just my overall response to the conversation.

    Mark

    P.S. The art of being a good client is being totally transparent. When you come to the table with your intentions crystal clear and communicate exactly what you want, how much you're willing to invest to get it and what kind of campaign you're looking for... the interaction is clean. If you're emailing numerous copywriters, trying to leverage the lowest bid, you're not creating a productive relationship (with the person you ultimately hire.)

    I've said it numerous times here: Just because you're transparent doesn't mean you'll get taken advantage of. It just creates a solid foundation to have a REAL frickin' conversation.

    Remember...

    When you take the time to get to know someone's character, the process of communicating your wants, needs, desires and financial reality is effortless. You'll only have your guard up when you're hiding the kind of valuable information that could get the ball rolling in a positive direction.

    Is it really a mystery why toxic copywriter/client relationships, even just potential ones, go bad?

    Nope.

    No mystery.
    Signature

    Do you want a 9 figure copywriter and biz owner to Write With You? I'll work with you, on zoom, to help write your copy or client copy... while you learn from one of the few copywriters to legit hit 9 figures in gross sales! Discover More

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8081765].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
    There are a lot of BIG guys out here advising you on hiring the right copywriter suitable for your needs & I surely ain't one of them. However, I had like to add a couple of important points:

    Past proven records speak a lot about the copywriters competency to deliver the results you want.

    Preferably, you must hire a copywriter specialized in the niche you want the copy written for.

    If the copywriter has been recommended by a friend or a colleague who has had a good experience in the past, you have got your man.

    If the copywriter is available on skype or on the phone, you've a great chance of weeding out the bad guys & hiring the right copywriter for your needs.

    The best of copywriters sometimes fail. So, you need to be patient. Sometimes, it's because of bad traffic sources & sometimes it's because the copywriter isn't the right one.

    If you're hiring or willing to hire a newbie copywriter, make sure the copywriter is courteous & works with you directly as if your website & product is his own.

    You get what you pay for. You cannot always afford to hire a copywriter who is cheap. Sometimes, paying more to a great copywriter is worth more for your time, money & energy especially if you want to amplify your profits.

    Don't waste time. Find a copywriter who's helpful & useful.

    Ronak.
    Signature
    I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

    Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
    Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
    I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
    *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8083649].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by Neromancer View Post

    1. Arrogant - The majority of respondents (4) all seemed a bit condescending and out right know it all. One of the 4 I tried to hire actually insulted my original copy on two separate sites - both of which are earning me money each month. I agree there was room for improvement but is this traditionally how most copywriters behave?
    Not always.

    The other side of this is that many marketers have never had anyone
    tell them the honest truth about their copy and if you sugar coat it
    too much you can end up with a client who thinks his copy doesn't
    need changing or thinks elements of previous copy which are really
    awful are okay.

    Everyone is different.

    Some clients like you to be as short and honest as possible...many will
    take it personally so you need to be a bit more diplomatic.

    The clients who get the most value are often those who crave straight
    talk.


    Originally Posted by Neromancer View Post

    2. Overpriced - $$$$ prices ranging from $250.00 with NO proven track record to as high as $3,000.00. Jeepers. Ok good copy is worth it I am told.
    It's really not about price but about value.

    If a good sales letter gets you twice the response as something
    you write for yourself you can work out what price represents
    good value (there's huge variation in that potential value).

    $3,000+ might be a bargain and $250 might be way beyond your
    budget depending on what kind of sales you're making or likely to
    make.

    Looking for someone who has some kind of track record is a good
    idea but don't overlook a young, hungry copywriter out of hand.
    Often they can do great stuff at a budget price.

    When I was starting out some of my clients got some amazing
    deals simply because I had to earn my chops.


    Originally Posted by Neromancer View Post

    Little Or NO Communication Each copywriter seemed to care less about communication and keeping me posted on progress. It was as if what they were doing was mystical / magical and I couldn't have a look behind the curtain.
    Generally speaking when you're writing copy it's not a good idea
    to let clients see early drafts.

    It's usually not helpful for either party.

    The few times I've done it I've regretted it. Copy by committee just
    doesn't work well.

    You really just want to let a good copywriter write the copy as
    best he can then change as little as possible and test that.

    That usually gets the best results if it's a good experienced
    copywriter.

    Having said that I've always been of the opinion that once you take
    on a client you should get their copy written quickly.

    Taking weeks to write a sales letter is ridiculous.

    And communication early on in the process is vital so you can get
    information on the prospects who'll be reading the copy and on the
    product or service you're selling.


    Originally Posted by Neromancer View Post

    Final Product Is Questionable At Best One of the copywriters could not even finish in 2 weeks writing under 1200 words and actually had to refund me
    what I paid. The other three delivered in my opinion, really crappy copy that was an embarrassment to consider putting on my sites.
    It sounds like you just hired poor copywriters.

    Yes there are unfortunately some pretty poor copywriters out there
    and especially once you get under the $1,000-$1,500 price range.

    Good direct response copy really starts in the $2,000-$2,500+ price
    range (although there are some pretty awful copywriters charging
    that too).

    And when you get up into $2,500-$6,000 range you should be expecting
    something really good (although even then it might not happen).


    My suggestions would be:

    1. Ask to see samples (if they don't have any good samples of
    sales letters they've written don't hire them to write sales letters
    for you).

    2. Look for someone who's already writing in your niche or something
    very close to it.


    3. Talk to them on the phone or on Skype. Most experienced
    copywriters will be trying to get you on the phone to talk to you
    early in the process anyway.

    4. Be aware that some copywriters are VERY marketing savvy
    and that can be worth more to you than the cost of the copy.

    It's very common that a suggestion I make about changes in
    the marketing process a client is using will make them many times
    more profits than what they pay me for a sales letter.

    Some of us have worked with experienced marketers and studied
    marketing as well as copy for many years so we know how to
    make a marketing system work.

    Think beyond just the copy. Better copywriters are worth more
    than just a sales letter.


    5. In any field you have to put in some groundwork to find good
    help.

    Hiring a copywriter is no different. If you put in the effort you should
    find someone who writes great copy for you at a price that makes
    sense based on your traffic to the sales letter.

    But it probably won't be the first person you talk to and it may not
    be the first person you hire.

    6. When you find a good copywriter it pays to hire them for as many
    projects as you can as quickly as you can while they're hot because
    it's inevitable that a good copywriter will rise in the field and progressively
    charge higher fees.

    It's likely they'll reach the point where it's no longer viable for them
    to work for you at the fees you can afford.


    I hope something there helps.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8092936].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    It's fascinating to me to see the different price expectations different people have.

    Most big mailers I've worked with (or know people who have or work there) look at about $3 - 5k + 2 - 3% for a "junior copywriter".

    These are guys making millions upon millions of dollars with direct mail. They "get" how important copy can be.

    Then you have guys maybe making $100k/year selling WSOs (if they're lucky) who balk at $1,000.

    Who do you think the good copywriters would rather work with?

    -Daniel
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8112563].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Daniel,

      Please reread your post.

      The answer is in there.

      For those who don't see the answer, here it is:

      Big mailer can spent more money because the cost of copy as a percentage of gross revenue is most smaller.

      For example, a wso copy of 1000/100000 is 1%

      A million dollar gross at 1% is $10,000

      The quality difference between a 1k and 10k writer is markable.

      Plus, wso's are mostly affiliate driven so the wso owner gets very little of gross.

      Morale of the story: the math has to work for everybody.


      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      It's fascinating to me to see the different price expectations different people have.

      Most big mailers I've worked with (or know people who have or work there) look at about $3 - 5k + 2 - 3% for a "junior copywriter".

      These are guys making millions upon millions of dollars with direct mail. They "get" how important copy can be.

      Then you have guys maybe making $100k/year selling WSOs (if they're lucky) who balk at $1,000.

      Who do you think the good copywriters would rather work with?

      -Daniel
      Signature

      The Most Bad-Ass Tax Reduction Strategist for Internet Marketers who HATE paying taxes. See my happy clients

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8135793].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
        Originally Posted by copyassassin View Post

        Daniel,

        Please reread your post.

        The answer is in there.

        For those who don't see the answer, here it is:

        Big mailer can spent more money because the cost of copy as a percentage of gross revenue is most smaller.

        For example, a wso copy of 1000/100000 is 1%

        A million dollar gross at 1% is $10,000

        The quality difference between a 1k and 10k writer is markable.

        Plus, wso's are mostly affiliate driven so the wso owner gets very little of gross.

        Morale of the story: the math has to work for everybody.
        I get it. But which one do you think the good writers will gravitate toward?

        -Daniel
        Signature

        Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8135874].message }}
  • If you have a good product with a good list, in a good market and good positioning, then why wouldn't you spend $3000 on copy? or more depending on how much you're going to get back.

    I always take to time reply and talk.

    that much is just common decency.
    Signature
    "Peter Brennan is the real deal, In the first 12 hours we did $80k...and over $125k in the first week...if you want to be successful online, outsource your copywriting to Peter"
    Adam Linkenauger

    For 12 ways to sell more stuff to more people today...go to...www.peterbrennan.net
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8136716].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Why deal with people like this when you can write copy to sell your own products or affiliate products?

    Why waste your time on them?
    Not all clients are bad. I know it's fashionable to do the whole Halbert-esque "clients suck" thing, but one of the reasons I continue to work freelance is because you meet some awesome people doing awesome things. Every project I work on I learn a ton while making good money.

    It's a good life.

    The second thing is that there's a LOT more to running a successful internet business than just copy.

    Traffic, for one. For me, that's been a major sticking point. I'm getting my feet wet with it and learning but like anything, it's a learning curve.

    I've made a lot more money from royalties than I have from sales I've generated from my own traffic... so far, at least. Maybe one day that'll change.

    That's without mentioning all the other stuff you've gotta do (manage staff, put together the tech side of things [which is crazy if you want a badass operation], attract and manage affiliates, etc etc).

    -Daniel
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8138775].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    It's an ugly word (to some people,) but the best way to experience top-notch relationships with your clients is:

    Having clear boundaries.

    Just because someone pays me money doesn't mean they have an all access pass to my life.

    I talk with them at their scheduled times and give them my full, undivided attention. I do the same thing when I write their copy. I always schedule projects so that I'm only working on one pitch at a time.

    Oftentimes, the copywriter/client relationships that fall apart are the ones without clear boundaries for what is being exchanged - above and beyond the copy.

    Just throwing that out there.

    And Daniel...

    Driving traffic can be a headache. No doubt. Getting really good at Adwords is a major plus. I always start there - even if I only invest a couple hundred bucks - so I can really test my copy and presentation.

    From there...

    I know if I want to buy media spots, buy a solo ad or approach other business owners to trade lists.

    Lots of options. It just takes the willingness to invest money - until you find the traffic source that sticks. Then set it on autopilot.

    Mark
    Signature

    Do you want a 9 figure copywriter and biz owner to Write With You? I'll work with you, on zoom, to help write your copy or client copy... while you learn from one of the few copywriters to legit hit 9 figures in gross sales! Discover More

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8139289].message }}

Trending Topics