Swiping ideas?

17 years ago

If it's for a similar product or service... or if the letter is going to the same market... it's a bad idea.

If it's from a totally different market... with totally different eyeballs seeing it... and you don't get a copywriter who knows the proper (legal) way to swipe it...

Then it's a VERY BAD idea.

Swiping (while not in my genes) is a very good way to write good copy... if you know what the hell you're doing.

If you don't know what you're doing you'll be wasting your time... or worse, getting sued.

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Intrepreneur

17 years ago

Can you elaborate please.

I don't plan on swiping any of the words, I will use all of my own words but the same concept..

I dont know if thats counted as illegal?

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MontelloMarketing

17 years ago

No... I can't elaborate. I'm not your lawyer.

And... if you're looking to do something that even has a hint of risk, I wouldn't just take some guy's word for it on a message board.

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Intrepreneur

17 years ago

Ok.. I hope that Im not breaking laws, Im going to go ahead with this idea and add my own twists, as Im not quite sure how it would be illegal to design my own website based on a swipe file.

I think I read from RayDal that its good to work from using a swipe file.

I'm still open to responses, as Im really intrigued at how I can do this without being seen as copying. I myself dont feel its copying, due to what raydal said, but its left me a bit bewildered.

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Raydal

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Ok.. I hope that Im not breaking laws, Im going to go ahead with this idea and add my own twists, as Im not quite sure how it would be illegal to design my own website based on a swipe file.

I think I read from RayDal that its good to work from using a swipe file.

I'm still open to responses, as Im really intrigued at how I can do this without being seen as copying. I myself dont feel its copying, due to what raydal said, but its left me a bit bewildered.

If it's the concept or idea that you are copying that's fine. I wouldn't copy
anybody's word whole sale--that's another can of fish.

At some level every sales letter is a "swipe" because we are not as
original as we think we are.

-Ray Edwards

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Dean Dhuli 17 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

At some level every sales letter is a "swipe" because we are not as
original as we think we are.

You're probably right about that.

I can't tell you how many times reading something in the newspaper
or watching an ad or a movie on tv has given me new ideas
for headlines, opening leads and even how to structure the copy.

- Dean
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Alex Cohen

17 years ago

John Anghelache sells a very good product on swiping.

In it, he shows how to ethically swipe ...

The Copywriting Crash Course

Alex

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John_S 17 years ago

I will use all of my own words but the same concept.

In theory, not a problem. However, it's usually an advanced copywriting technique to pull off in practice.

What happens is the letter doesn't pull as well as the swiper thinks it should. And then the inevitable happens. "What would be the problem if I just made it a bit more like the swiped letter." And then a sentence gets lifted. ....

Fairly soon after, it's a copy & paste fest. And denial it could ever happen in this or that case is fairly common.
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Daniel Scott

17 years ago

The problem I see here is that, unless you're already a good copywriter, you probably won't understand the subtleties of why certain things are used the way they are... which is a big part of what we do.

Just changing a word in a sentence can give a completely different "feel" or "impact".

Swiping a certain technique, such as the use of scarcity, or the way a story is used, or the general "layout" of the copy might work... after all, that's how we learn; copying others and testing it.

It's also obvious English is your second language... so if I were you, I wouldn't tackle it (unless the letter you're swiping is in your native tongue and the letter you're WRITING is in your native tongue).

-Dan

P.S. This is separate to the legal/ethical issues that others have raised above... I support those posts, just didn't want to repeat them.

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Intrepreneur

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

It's also obvious English is your second language... s
.

Whatever gives you that idea?

I speak perfectly fluent English and write perfectly as well, it's just not American English, it's Ireland English hehe

Although I do see I may be missing flow in some of my posts, but when I'm writing long articles and such, the flow is always there, in fact I aced my English exams, so to say my first language is not that of good english is far from right.

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Raydal

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Whatever gives you that idea?

I speak perfectly fluent English and write perfectly as well, it's just not American English, it's Ireland English hehe

Although I do see I may be missing flow in some of my posts, but when I'm writing long articles and such, the flow is always there, in fact I aced my English exams, so to say my first language is not that of good english is far from right.

Maybe Dan misread your Avatar title as "Intrepreneuralism Greek"
instead of "Intrepreneuralism Geek"

-Ray Edwards

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Paul Myers

17 years ago

Although I do see I may be missing flow in some of my posts, but when I'm writing long articles and such, the flow is always there, in fact I aced my English exams, so to say my first language is not that of good english is far from right.

That may well be, but the impression I get from a lot of your posts is confused thinking. It could be a completely wrong impression, and you do ask some useful and intelligent questions, but it's the impression I get.

If I might suggest something to go along with what the others here have said, it would be this: Make an effort to be clear in everything you write. Even minor forum posts. The impact that kind of focus can have on your writing, and the speed at which it will happen, might surprise you.

If you wonder about that, look at the posts from professional copywriters. People like Ray, Vin, Daniel, Harlan, Jeff Walker, Marlon Sanders, Mike Fortin, John Ritz, and others. Their writing may be casual, even quirky, but it's rarely scattered or sloppy.

Worth a bit of thought, yes?

Paul

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Intrepreneur 17 years ago

I agree that I do come across with confused thinking a lot of the time, I do have a lot of confusions that I would love to settle once and for all, I hate having to be a burden on WF members but it seems to be the only place that I can get solid refined answers that are guaranteed to help my business.

I just wish that I could think of all my questions that I need answered, and then pay for time of a pro to help remove the confsuions I have, problem is they will not all come to me at any one time.

Although I feel I am on thr right track I know there is a lot of room for improvement in my thinking and my strategies.

I do also hope my questions come across as prudent rather than ignorant but what I do know is that I wish I didn't have so many to ask.
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- Paul Myers 17 years ago
  
  I do also hope my questions come across as prudent rather than ignorant but what I do know is that I wish I didn't have so many to ask.
  
  I suspect that you're trying to do too much at once. That creates both the appearance and the reality of confusion. It also significantly slows the learning process for most people.
  
  Paul
  
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Jeff Walker

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If you wonder about that, look at the posts from professional copywriters. People like Ray, Vin, Daniel, Harlan, Jeff Walker, Marlon Sanders, Mike Fortin, John Ritz, and others. Their writing may be casual, even quirky, but it's rarely scattered or sloppy.

Well now... I've been called lots of things, but I don't know if I've ever been called a "professional copywriter" before.

I suppose, considering the source, that's probably a good thing.

Just don't anyone go and try to hire me.

- Jeff

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Paul Myers 17 years ago

Jeff,

Well now... I've been called lots of things, but I don't know if I've ever been called a "professional copywriter" before.

[chuckle] I wondered if you'd respond to that one.

The fact that you dont' sell copywriting services doesn't change the fact that you write better copy than most of the folks I know who do.

Paul
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colmodwyer

17 years ago

I speak perfectly fluent English and write perfectly as well, it's just not American English, it's Ireland English hehe

Haha! I was at a copywriting seminar a while back and people were amazed at how well my English was - I have a Scottish accent... Ye gawd dang crazy yanks!

My ma told me the best spoken English can be found around the outskirts of Dublin where there's a nice mix of the English and Irish accent. My ma is Irish though, so she probably knows nout

Colm

P.S. On a side note, Daniel; re-check your headline at Turbocharge Your Website's Sales With Copy That is Guaranteed to Get Results! Bold impact is really hard to read. I reckon it's putting your conversion on a downer.

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designfuschion

17 years ago

Originally Posted by colmodwyer

Colm

P.S. On a side note, Daniel; re-check your headline at Turbocharge Your Website's Sales With Copy That is Guaranteed to Get Results! Bold impact is really hard to read. I reckon it's putting your conversion on a downer.

hey!
Don't want to sidetrack this topic..but seems as i've recently heard the term swiping around here..I've had a question thats bugging me.

Of many salespages i've come across the design in above link I like the most-many seem to use it.
Are IM"ers just viewing source copy paste the html css and adding their own copy into it..
Or is it a template that is purchased somewhere?
I really like the clean design.

Does swiping include the salespage design ?
Maybe i'm worried about nothing.

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Daniel Scott

17 years ago

Hey Colm,

Thanks for the tip! Must have missed that one when I went over everything.

Appreciated!

-Dan

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Daniel Scott

17 years ago

Hey Design,

It's a pretty basic template, so I'm sure you could easily make one yourself... even if your HTML skills weren't up to par.

Personally, a while ago someone wrote some copy for me. The copy wasn't great, but I did like the template.

As to whether or not people will object to you stealing their designs, I guess it depends on the person. In such a simple page there's crap all to steal, really... but if you want the template, feel free to just file - save page as (Firefox works great as it copies the images, too) and then just delete the text and put your own stuff in.

Having said that, just because it's okay with ME doesn't mean it's okay with EVERYONE. The best bet is just to email and ask... I'd bet most people would say yes for a basic design like this one. If it's a little more specialized/branded, then they might not be so happy.

-Dan

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