Copy Writing Fees

12 years ago

If you can copywrite yourself out of a wet paper bag, you're losing sales because you've significantly undervalued yourself. YOU'RE TOO CHEAP. You're destroying your value perception. Prospects know effective copywriters cost money, and you don't. It's that simple. Triple your prices.

Of course, if you don't deliver, it doesn't matter. You're a bad value at $0.01.

Thanks
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theconversionwriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

If you can copywrite yourself out of a wet paper bag, you're losing sales because you've significantly undervalued yourself. YOU'RE TOO CHEAP. You're destroying your value perception. Prospects know effective copywriters cost money, and you don't. It's that simple. Triple your prices.

Of course, if you don't deliver, it doesn't matter. You're a bad value at $0.01.

Thanks heaps Steve.

Sometimes it takes a few times to sink in, I am definitely undervaluing myself!

I know my copy works- It worked in my own business and tripled response.

So your right, I'm going to double to triple response...Which leads to the next question.

Where do you source clients that are willing to pay $1-2,000 per letter? (I'm going to work my price up gradually)

Do you have any tips of how to source or promote copy writing services?

Thanks

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Chriswrighto

12 years ago

Do you only bring $250-$400 worth of value to your client's?

Think of the value you bring, and price accordingly.

Up your rates man!

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Mark Pescetti

12 years ago

Do you want to be perceived as a commodity?

Or a serious copywriter?

Position, position, position.

I've said this in numerous threads.

If you charge $400 for a sales letter, you're going to get clients that largely don't know what the heck they're doing.

You end up doing WAY more work - for people who don't even necessarily know how to leverage copy to generate conversions.

It take less energy to position yourself in front of people who already know the value of copy... then going after people you have to convince and chase to see your worth.

It's all about how you enter the conversation... and steer it to the destination (or action) you want.

At the $400 level, you're dealing with people who don't understand the value of copy. And no amount of "educating them" will turn them into high-quality clients.

But when you're dealing with someone who understands that a $5,000, $10,000, $25,000 investment can unlock hundreds of thousands - if not millions of dollars in profits, you're golden.

You just need to communicate that you're "the one."

Remember...

Your ad copy is demonstrating how much you understand positioning.

People who already know the value of copy will look at your positioning and determine your worth.

So what's the obvious conclusion?

Change the conversation you're having with prospects, right?

Mark

P.S. How does $400 even give you enough time to interview your client, collaborate with them, write the copy and perform any possible revisions? It doesn't. It's a lose/lose situation for everyone. Stop aiding people in sabotaging their business. Something's either worth REALLY investing in... or it isn't. If $400 breaks the bank, the client doesn't get what's on the table. And unfortunately, that's your fault.

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theconversionwriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti

Do you want to be perceived as a commodity?

Or a serious copywriter?

Position, position, position.

I've said this in numerous threads.

If you charge $400 for a sales letter, you're going to get clients that largely don't know what the heck they're doing.

You end up doing WAY more work - for people who don't even necessarily know how to leverage copy to generate conversions.

It take less energy to position yourself in front of people who already know the value of copy... then going after people you have to convince and chase to see your worth.

It's all about how you enter the conversation... and steer it to the destination (or action) you want.

At the $400 level, you're dealing with people who don't understand the value of copy. And no amount of "educating them" will turn them into high-quality clients.

But when you're dealing with someone who understands that a $5,000, $10,000, $25,000 investment can unlock hundreds of thousands - if not millions of dollars in profits, you're golden.

You just need to communicate that you're "the one."

Remember...

Your ad copy is demonstrating how much you understand positioning.

People who already know the value of copy will look at your positioning and determine your worth.

So what's the obvious conclusion?

Change the conversation you're having with prospects, right?

Mark

P.S. How does $400 even give you enough time to interview your client, collaborate with them, write the copy and perform any possible revisions? It doesn't. It's a lose/lose situation for everyone. Stop aiding people in sabotaging their business. Something's either worth REALLY investing in... or it isn't. If $400 breaks the bank, the client doesn't get what's on the table. And unfortunately, that's your fault.

Mark, that is invaluable advice!

I think its time I take a jump to better clients quickly!

And its funny how you hit the nail on the head about clients not being able to leverage copy. It doesn't matter how often I follow up with clients. Or how much advice I give them. They rarely end up using the copy.

And when they do, they use it wrong! (Against all advice...)

So I'm going to take your advice, and stop helping people who don't understand the value of good copy.

Question, how would you suggest I find clients that are willing to pay $1-2,000 per letter?

Up until now I've just been using oDesk for clients (Makes sense now why I'm attracting low paying clients...DUH!).

So do you have suggestions on how to get clients who will invest more?

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Raydal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by theconversionwriter

And its funny how you hit the nail on the head about clients not being able to leverage copy. It doesn't matter how often I follow up with clients. Or how much advice I give them. They rarely end up using the copy.

Clients seldom use copy they didn't pay for. Get the book
Value-Based Fees by Weiss and read it right away.

-Ray Edwards

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Mark Pescetti

12 years ago

Originally Posted by theconversionwriter

I think its time I take a jump to better clients quickly!

Yes, they're better clients... but only because they're informed. They're not necessarily better people... if you catch my drift.

I've done really cheap work for people over the years, often against my better judgment...

...and while there's a ton of constant educating and hand-holding along the way, they were good people. (For the most part.)

It can be fun for you to take on educating gigs - IF, if, if you have the time... and the desire to help someone put all the pieces together. (So they can implement the copy and generate profits.) Just realize when you do this, you're giving away 5 figures worth of work and consulting advice for less than a grand.

Originally Posted by theconversionwriter

And its funny how you hit the nail on the head about clients not being able to leverage copy. It doesn't matter how often I follow up with clients. Or how much advice I give them. They rarely end up using the copy.

When you work with the type of clients you're describing, you have to show them HOW to use the copy... and stay on them - until they do it right.

The only incentives for taking on low-paying work are getting experience and testimonials.

So if you drop the ball in collaborating with them - so you can gather the results, that's really on you. It's your job to communicate upfront that you're only giving them a ridiculous deal to help them get some initial results. Once you do that for them, the price goes up... WAY up.

They might be using the copy. Maybe it just didn't convert and they don't feel you're worth their time any more.

Or...

Maybe they used it incorrectly... and you dropped the ball in helping them become successful with the campaign (so you can get your social proof.)

Originally Posted by theconversionwriter

And when they do, they use it wrong! (Against all advice...)

If you're the authority in the relationship and you really are giving them good advice, you can't make them do things the way you suggest.

Think about this...

The people who never become successful, at anything, are typically the ones who think they know it all.

And yet...

They're coming to you with no budget, right?

I always say results don't lie.

Which means...

Always look at what your clients (or potential clients) have achieved. Don't believe a word they say. But that's just me.

Originally Posted by theconversionwriter

So I'm going to take your advice, and stop helping people who don't understand the value of good copy.

Question, how would you suggest I find clients that are willing to pay $1-2,000 per letter?

Up until now I've just been using oDesk for clients (Makes sense now why I'm attracting low paying clients...DUH!).

So do you have suggestions on how to get clients who will invest more?

Who you are?

You're the copywriter, right?

You get to choose and dictate the conversation.

You get to choose how you connect with someone.

You get to choose the pain points you trigger.

You get to choose on whether you focus on proof or just good frickin' copy to make the sale. (i.e. bag the client.)

There's a very specific way you talk with people who have hundred thousand dollar budgets - as opposed to $400.

Start from the basics...

Who is your avatar?

What do they care about?

What do they want?

What are they afraid of?

How can you brand yourself to be immediately perceived as "the guy" they're looking for.

It's ALL on you.

Which is something you should love.

Hint:

You aren't explaining the value of copy... in your copy.

They already know.

Mark

P.S. Get off of oDesk. Create your own website. Brand yourself. Market it. Get relevant eyes on your stuff. At one point, I had over a dozen websites, in various niches... and now I'm down to four. Is it a ton of work? Yup.

Thanks
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The Copy Nazi

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti

Is it a ton of work? Yup.

There's the rub, Mark. Most of these dudes don't want to work. They want "overnight success". LOL. Confucious say... I dunno - something or other. Maybe "That which doesn't destroy you, Grasshopper... makes you stronger".

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theconversionwriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi

There's the rub, Mark. Most of these dudes don't want to work. They want "overnight success". LOL. Confucious say... I dunno - something or other. Maybe "That which doesn't destroy you, Grasshopper... makes you stronger".

You're spot on. Most people don't want to do work. But luckily I'm not one of them!

The "Niched writing" websites are going up this weekend.

Thanks

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JohnRussell 12 years ago

Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi

There's the rub, Mark. Most of these dudes don't want to work. They want "overnight success". LOL.

While I agree I think it also has a lot to do with the fake-it-till-you-make-it and carry-your-balls-in-a-wheelbarrow mentality.

There's lots of people teaching how to get high paying gigs. Typically there is only a small reference in parentheses to actually knowing how to write copy first.

Maybe this guy is only worth $400. I don't know.
- Thanks
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AntonioSeegars1

12 years ago

[DELETED]

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theconversionwriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by AntonioSeegars1

My advice is for you to do what is necessary for you to meet your financial goals in the easiest way. If you need to raise prices and attract higher paying clients to do it, then go ahead. But if you can reach them by targeting lower market clients, continue to do so. Asking for more money for the sake of asking for more money is not good if it causes you to lose money. Right now, you are offering high quality to people who need it that can't afford to pay high prices for it.

Thanks Antonio.

At the moment I'm hitting financial goals, but man its hard! I'm pumping out 5-8 clients a week and working about 65 hours...So I think that it definitely is time to up the prices and balance my life a bit more.

Thanks

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Chriswrighto

12 years ago

Have you kept the emails/contact details of your past clients?

If you've been writing over a year pumping out 6 clients a week - that's around 300 clients. Some may be repeats.

Send a blast out to them and let them know your offer.

Thanks

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Quality Copywriter

12 years ago

Hey there

It seems to me like you need to get a solid idea on the value you bring to the table.

I know there is a problem with a lot of clients not tracking how they do and some can be reluctant to give you results, but if you keep at it, you will get some solid results to work with.

Once you know that your copy contributed to a making someone even a few thousand dollars, you will see things differently.

I remember when I did my first 6 figure launch. Up until that time I was still unsure about how effective my sales messages could be. After that I felt more comfortable charging larger fees.

I've also had my work assessed by the top 2/3 writers online. This is worth doing as well, as it will give you an idea where you are in the market place.

Cutting your teeth on lower paid jobs is useful in that it gives you practice on so many levels.

These bottom feeders though are a major pain to deal with most of the time. They are usually very ignorant and over demanding in my experience.

It's best to move beyond them ASAP.

Thanks

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sethczerepak

12 years ago

Originally Posted by theconversionwriter

Sales Letter $250-$400
Landing Page long (800word appx) $200
Landing Page short ( 300 word appx) $300
Direct mail (3 step mailing) $180-$250
Emails: $35 each.

In my opinion, if you're charging less than $2,000 for a sales letter, you shouldn't be charging anything. You shouldn't even be WRITING sales letters. Either that or you're seriously undervaluing yourself.

For pricing, it all depends on who you're targeting and how much money you help them make. In other professions, it's harder to measure your value. But in sales, it's hard and tangible. It's all about ROI. If your sales letters convert even at 1%, you should be charging at least 2000.

If you can hit the 2 to 5% range, or double digits, anything under five figures is giving your services away.

That said, some customers just can't (or won't) pay higher fees. That's why you have to decide what you're worth AND find the people who able AND willing to pay it.

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theconversionwriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sethczerepak

In my opinion, if you're charging less than $2,000 for a sales letter, you shouldn't be charging anything. You shouldn't even be WRITING sales letters. Either that or you're seriously undervaluing yourself.

For pricing, it all depends on who you're targeting and how much money you help them make. In other professions, it's harder to measure your value. But in sales, it's hard and tangible. It's all about ROI. If your sales letters convert even at 1%, you should be charging at least 2000.

If you can hit the 2 to 5% range, or double digits, anything under five figures is giving your services away.

That said, some customers just can't (or won't) pay higher fees. That's why you have to decide what you're worth AND find the people who able AND willing to pay it.

That is great advice. Thanks.

Out of curiosity, what traffic source would you suggest testing campaigns on to determine these sort of rates? Straight from adwords, facebook, or from a list?

I've got a campaign ready to roll for my partners product. So I'll be really interested on what range it converts in. And from there I'll start finding clients who fit the criteria.

Thanks

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theconversionwriter

12 years ago

I'd just like to take a minute and say THANK YOU to everyone on this thread. Your advice and support has been really encouraging.

In fact, its helped me change my entire approach to getting clients.

"Niche Writing" sites are going up this weekend. I'm testing out my own campaign to gauge the price that I should be charging. And I'm finishing up work for my last "Cheap" clients this week.

So thanks guys.

One other question. Do you all build a list of prospective clients and treat it like if you were selling any other product? As in mail them regularly, run a newsletter, send promotions etc?

Thanks
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JohnRussell

12 years ago

Originally Posted by theconversionwriter

One other question. Do you all build a list of prospective clients and treat it like if you were selling any other product? As in mail them regularly, run a newsletter, send promotions etc?

Yes to the list...no to the newsletter (for me anyway). I build relationships via email.

Thanks

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