A Question Of Grammar

There've certainly been times that "very poor literacy" has driven me away from sales pages very quickly indeed.

One thing's for sure: good grammar isn't normally going to alienate many potential buyers.

I think it depends how bad the grammar is, and why it's bad. It sometimes depends on the context, too.

I don't think the important issue is really about "whether Kennedy's right or wrong", nor do I think that "being a stickler for grammar" and "using grammar so bad that it obscures the meaning" are the only two alternatives: there's a whole spectrum of possibilities between those two extremes, too.

I've sometimes knowingly used "incorrect grammar" where I think it's helped, for some reason.

Depends on the product, the audience, and what you mean by bad grammar. Just like when you're selling face-to-face. Even the medium counts.

I think as a copywriter (especially a generalist) you may be called upon to write in the "voice" of your audience. Different voice for nascar fans than for opera buffs. Grammar may come into play.

You might have to "unlearn" certain grammar rules. But don't worry -- all it takes is a few years in a special "re-education" camp. And shock therapy. And maybe a cerebral implant.

I have read on the internet and other forums to write to your audience, if you are selling something to a college professor then write how they would write, if you are writing to an idiot write to them. I have also read in general not to write much past the 10th grade level because it is to easy to confuse people and people on the web want things as simple as they can get it.

I once had my niece look over two versions of one of my sites web pages, the first had a 1200 word article the other was about 700 words. Same article just not as much information, she looked at the first and said she wouldn't read it because it was too long, I asked her but if she were looking for information and it takes 1200 words to give the information you need what do you do, she said she wouldn't read it.

For me I have a difficult time putting articles together with this in mind make the article too long and run the risk of people not wanting to read it. Make it too short and you may not put in enough of the right information but I do always try to do my best at grammar because if the grammar is off the sentence doesn't read right.

The ones who find all the grammar errors are out looking for the errors, not reading your message.

There are a lot of grammar Nazis around... I'd suggest staying away from them.

Most customers of copywriting services care they are told in school that if the grammar is bad it will not sell, of course that is not true but they don't know it. We as copywriters have to get the grammar as properly and standard as possible in order to get paid even that it doesn't affect sales that much but it is what is is!

I think it's important.

I don't think it's important that you use complex grammar, but I think it's important that you use simple or the appropriate level of grammar correctly.

I think an understanding of how grammar effects thought is also a powerful tool for someone who can write good copy - for reasons which I'll explain below.

First though - I think a LOT of it comes down to how you're positioning yourself in your market, or what kind of expert you're positioning yourself as.

For example - If I read a sales letter from Frank Kern and it had an obvious grammar mistake - I probably wouldn't think much of it.

On the other hand - if I read something from Eben Pagan and he made a noticeable grammar mistake - it would create some kind of incongruency in my mind -

Because of the type of expert he has positioned himself as.

A guy with a bot or software that does something useful? I don't care.

A conversational hypnosis product and there's something that's obviously a mistake and not something meant to be inductive? Your credibility is hurt.

Here's a simple example of how understanding the way grammar changes thinking could be useful:

In most newspapers, and in most news media - when a person has been shot - they'll normally use an active tense. Active present or active present continuous, usually:

"Authorities say the man shot his wife after. . . "

But - more or less every time there's a police shooting, they use passive tense to take the onus or responsibility off of the police as the subject or the doers of the action:

"Witnesses say that after police arrived, the man was shot 27 times." (NOT police shot the man)

Generally passive tenses (is/are done, was/were done) are used when the subject or the doer of the action is unknown or not important (or when you want to mitigate guilt. . . Ever heard a politician confess? "Mistakes were made". . . Never "I made a mistake").

Nearly every method of salesmanship or copywriting has corresponding grammar which is most appropriate, and which people will respond best to.

Future pacing? By the time you finish reading this letter you will have realized that you might want to use future perfect (Will have done or will have + past participle).

Talking about the hypothetical future? If you understood the difference between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd conditional you could make it more believable.

Even simple things like ability in the past/present/future. Could/Can/Will be able to.

Any higher level persuasion stuff like time distortion? You've got to understand and be able to manipulate grammar.

Anyway . . .

Those are just some examples.

And I don't mean to say that grammar is the most important element in copy, or that it's more important than understanding buyer psychology, having the right USP, nailing all the elements of good copy, etc. -

But, as others have said - doing it right probably won't hurt, and I think understanding not necessarily the "rules" of grammar, but the possible results or effects of grammar is very useful.

And that's my opinion as a buyer, not as an expert copywriter or anything.

If something that breaks the rules of grammar serves the interest of the copy - fair enough. "I'm just like y'all" in that regard.

But if I was talking to or reading something from a copywriter who clearly didn't understand grammar and couldn't use it correctly I'd want to see pretty impressive previous results.

Somebody like Dan Kennedy or Gary Halbert or Kern or whoever are exceptions to the rule not because the rule isn't likely to be generally true, but just because they're exceptional at what they do.

Wrong Grammar That's Okay:

"Bills It's Okay To Pay Late"

(should be Bill's That Are Okay to Pay Late" -- but who wants to read that mouthful?)


Wrong Grammar that ain't okay:

"They laughing when I sit piano ~ but when I starting play!"

RULE: If your English marks you clearly as a non-native speaker, you need to fix it. (For example, If you can't see what's wrong with the butchered headline above). That's the grammar flaw you see targeted on this forum most often.

But if it sounds like informal vernacular, it's just fine and dandy. (Appropriate to the diction of your audience, of course.)

Readability trumps grammar.

But that's not an excuse to be lazy.

Your grammar should be perfect unless you have very specific premeditated reasons to make it imperfect.

Some people tend to shy away from bad grammar but it could depend on how bad the grammar is. If the context gets lost, you know its really bad. Personally, I prefer, good grammar on the copy.

Bad grammar can be off-putting to some. For me its best to have the grammar as perfect as possible.

Thank you for your comments everyone. Good to see the support here. Much Love. J

Do glaring grammar errors cripple your copy's meaning? Does sloppy punctuation destroy your copy's rhythm?

If bad Grammer kils you're massage might not never get acros like you think it dose!

















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You can sell without perfect grammar, the nitpickers say it's not true, but they are not true. It can be done but my opinion is get the grammar as close to the nitpicker grammar police as possible so you can sell to a few of them, they are a minority and they normally don't by but it's a small effort, so why not do it!

To sum: it matters when it matters. It doesn't when it doesn't.

Copywriter, know thy audience.

Some people here seem to be confusing "bad" grammar and "informal" grammar. There's a difference between the two.

Informal grammar can actually encompass certain "wrong" grammar, but can pass with no problem to the audience if it's a form that is generally used in speech by the audience you are addressing.

The problem lies in whether the "mistake" or "misuse" is one that stands out as "unfamilar" to the crowd. The misuse of sound alikes such as "they, their, they're" will always send up subconscious flags in readers minds. Enough of these flags and typos and mistakes become a credibility liability that even the reader does not recognize as such. A "mistake" that takes the normal colloquial form used by a particular audience will not cause such flags and will not effect the response because it will not stop the reader's eye or engage the conscious thought process of deciphering. Conversely, a statement like "we don't need no stinking [whatever]" is extremely ungrammatical and incorrect, but it is an emphatic form off "error" that will not cause the eye to stop, thus not creating an opportunity for objection.

Anything that registers as unnatural, abnormal, or incorrect will defeat your purposes because it stops the eye and engages the conscious thought process, which allows the reader to make choices - you don't want that. You want them to read as if the brain work has already been done for them.

Thank you for your comment HeySal. I agree with you. It's not a clean cut thing. Many levels of grey and ultimately up to YOU to decide if it flows or works.

James

Did ya notice that I had to come back in and "proofread" my own writing? LOL - that's another thing that gets to me is that some people think that posts in forums need the same quality as a dissertation or sales page.

Grammar Nazis drive me nuts -- and are usually incorrect in a lot of their beliefs.

Grammar is a little important.

It's bad to look like a complete retard, but it's also bad to sound too stiff and formal. Generally speaking, you want to sound like a normal dude.

BAD: im sure if you buy this your success will be increase a lots.

ALSO BAD: With the help of this fantastic product, you will achieve splendid results; in fact, I'd go so far as to say it could be transformative.

GOOD: After 40 years in this business, I can tell you that this product is the best in its class... And I've seen (and tested) 'em all

The first example is so bad it just makes the writer look like an idiot.

The second is grammatically correct but too flowery.

The third is the happy middle: pretty much OK grammar, but not wordy or pretentious either.

Like someone else said, good grammar will never hurt you as a copywriter, while bad grammar often will.

I'd add to that, though, that grammar isn't so important that it will save you from poor communication. If you don't speak in a way that most people can relate to, your grammar won't save you.