I like listbuilding and have done well with it. True enough, I have good sized lists in a couple of niches, but it has worked great for me over the years.

[DELETED]

Seriously?

So what's stopping YOU from building up a list of Thousands?

I've got a list of 5,000 in the Mens PUA (geared towards guys) list that does VERY well for me. Hardly a huge list, but I built it 100% with free traffic from youtube.

I've got lists in relationship advice for women, personal development, making money online, they all do VERY well because I took the time to build them up, and build a solid relationship with my lists.

Not sure where you're getting your info from, but I do at least suggest you quit making blanket statements on a subject you clearly know nothing about...

Well it's my opinion based on 6 years in IM. I've built lists, every way you can imagine......but the conversion is lousy. 10,000 on your list then no problem. How many people have a real list .......focussed, real, targeted. Most lists are just that.......a list.

Curious statistic. Source, please?

1%?

With assumptions like this, who needs the pickled herrings in the first place?!

My aim, when I build a list (in any niche at all, and I'm in 9 different ones, now) is for 50% of the subscribers to buy one or more products through one of my links during the life-cycle of the automated email series I send them (and since I'm scrupulously honest, to a fault, I'll also mention that I don't always quite achieve that, but it's still my aim, after 6+ years, and I don't like unrealistic/unachievable aims.)

Seriously, if I sold something to 1% of them, I'd call it a day and go into the antiques business. I'd have left this forum about 6 years ago.

LOL ...a fallacy and lie, is it?! "Hard to know whether serious and just grotesquely ill-informed or actively trolling", as the saying goes!

Here's the thing: for affiliate marketers like me and a few tens of thousands of others in this forum, there's no income worth talking about without listbuilding and email marketing. Not at all difficult to see why, though. To earn significant money from affiliate marketing, you need to do three things ...

(i) Keep your potential customers returning to the sales page (because I think we'll all agree that almost nobody ever buys anything much at their first visit to a sales page?!);

(ii) Make increasing sales (ideally at progressively higher prices) to the same "captive audience" who regularly rely on and trust your recommendations;

(iii) Establish the credibility and trust necessary to do both the above by earning's people respect as a provider of niche-related information.

Without building lists, of course, you can't do any of the three and you'd just be throwing away almost all the traffic you ever generate that doesn't buy anything immediately.

That's trying to run a bath by opening the taps fully but not remembering to put the plug in the hole first. You just lose almost everything, almost immediately. What kind of way to run a business would that be?

For most people, most of the time, it's just about as simple as that, overall.

These three threads are more informative ...

Is it a good idea to spend some time on building a mailing list ?

Without Building a List, How Consistent is Your Income from Affiliate Marketing

Does anyone even make money online without an email list?

Here's a little question for you: take a look through the hundreds of threads in this forum with titles like "What's the one thing you'd do differently, if starting against tomorrow" (there really are hundreds with titles like that!) and glance through quickly, just enough to notice all the long-established, successful Warriors, obviously with absolutely no incentive whatever to try to "fool anyone", giving the same answer ("Start to build a list on day one" - which they all do) ... and the question is simply "Why do you think that is?".


.

Yes I hear the argument. But my experience is that most (ok Warrior Forumites, what is the size of your list?) produce little in the way of sales. I think that's because most lists are just lists. Not focussed. Not real interested buyers. Not focussed in any way at all. Yes, some people have relatively large lists (eljeffe77....5000 is actually a large list!) but conversion is mostly poor compared with the effort involved. I still think "the money is in the list" is bullshit.

I JUST started building a list in Personal Development

My list is about 650 for now - I don't know if you'd consider that large or small, but i've already made THOUSANDS with that list and funnel.

Want to know my secret?

As stated above, I take the time to build a RELATIONSHIP with my list. I don't just promote to them email after email. I give them good content, I give them value, I even offer to assist them and offer my email address (which is HUGE for making me a real person, and more than just a name, I become a trusted friend)

I can do this with ANY niche, with a list of 500-1000 I can make thousands (and do quite frequently)

So much for only those with large lists doing well with their lists... :-)

Wow... the backbone of my profitable business... a fallacy? List building and email marketing is fundamental, and certainly better than direct linking - especially if your product sells at a price where you can easily recoup your advertising investment.

If list building is a lie, what's your plan for making money on the internet? Isn't list building the same thing as having people subscribe to a blog? I dont know what to tell you except *good luck* with your internet endeavors.

i hate list building .although that is important .

Gotta laugh at this thread...

Ask anyone who is anyone that's made big bukcs and they have a list.

So here it is again in simple terms...

Build a list of prospects.

Find out what they want

Sell to those prospects.

The ones that buy - put on a different list - these are ones who have trust in you and your products.

Sell them higher priced products.

Seems like people are to lazy to make the effort required to build a business. So if this applies to you - then get out of the industry.

Sal

It depends on the list, I guess. I maintain a list of buyers who bought from me already. I keep selling to them and making a good living from doing just that. Very straightforward business.

I also have a list of those who signed up but didn't buy. I send a couple of email messages to them and if they don't respond or don't open the mail, I stop sending them email. I don't waste my time. I focus my efforts keeping the real buyers happy.

I guess, based on some abstract mathematics, this means that my list's conversion rate is 100% LOL...

Honestly, I feel that this is incorrect.Actually, this is the opposite of what is true.

Its not the list that is the problem, it is either the copy, the offer, or where the leads originally came from.

I used to think the same thing. But I was wrong.

Every list of 10,000 was at one time a list of 500 and in most cases made less money.... Much like you describe. But you won't ever build a list of 10k without passing the 500 subscriber mark on your way. There ain't a guru out there who skipped that step. That's a math thing.

So your point is that one should not build a list of 500 and make a little money because people with 10k on their lists make a lot more?

I must be missing something....sounds more like you are just butt hurt that you don't have a list of 10k yourself that makes money on demand. Sorry to be so blunt, but your assertstion that list building is stupid and a lie is just flat out wrong on so many levels.

You do realize "list building". Was around and a major part of success as a marketer long before the Internet or AR's were even dreamed up. List building works...always has and always will.

I am very confident you will look back on this thread you started in five years (prob much sooner) and either you will realize your error. Or you will still be chasing a dream that never came true because you failed to follow sound business principles like building a list.

all depends what sort of business you have/want. If you want to build a relationship and give value to your subscribers/clients then a list is important

" Forget list building - it's a fallacy and a lie " Hmm...

Let me think about what you said for one second..

Wait nevermind.....That thought is just too painful for me to process.

I couldn't IMAGINE doing business period without a list that's madness!

Anybody who does business without a list to me is LAZY and UNEDUCATED.

I don't care what niche it is, always build your list no matter what!

It's definitely important. It's one of the core complents in search engine ranking algorithms

Building a list of targeted prospects has been the cornerstone of sales for thousands of years. Sorry, OP, but your assessment is just wrong. There's some good advice in this thread, so read up.

EBR is living proof. You don't need to look further than his opinion on this.

80% of your profits will come from 20% of your customers.

Repeat business is the lifeblood of any enterprise.

Way before the micro computers existed and only IBM mini and main frames like the 360/370 series controlled the computer departments in small and large companies, way before the internet, and emails came into existence... companies have been building mailing list and used direct mail to promote & sell their products or services !

So what is the point I am trying to drive home !

Long before the internet or micro computers existed, companies were building buyer lists ......BY DOING DIRECT MAIL CAMPAIGNS to a targeted list of names and addresses with a post card or envelope. SEARS ROEBUCK... 1st started In 1888, Richard Sears first used a printed mailer to advertise watches and jewelry.

LIST BUILDING IS AS OLD AS SEARS & ROEBUCK...so list building on the internet only COPYCATED OFFLINE OLD SCHOOL proven direct mail marketing system to generate leads, make sales, build a list of buyers, clean their mailing list of dead beats, remarket to their buyers on their list. It is still being used today and why because it works, and so why would online list building would not be the same.

Some where, along the line you got lost and you need to do your research again on list building or just simply hire someone to help you find out what exactly are you doing wrong if you are already building a list, and if not yet building a list, then start building one and test and tweak your campaigns till you start building a responsive buyers list, just like offline old school direct mail marketing companies still do in the offline world !

Test if out if you don't think it works do something else. I think it's important but it might not be for you we are not all the same.

Hmm that's a defeatist attitude...

Its true I now have over 100,000 plus on my lists but here is the thing

I can remember when there were just 5 people on my list and 3 of them were me, from testing the subscribe form.

If you want to build a list, don't sell... presell to get them interested in more info then sell to the list and keep doing, wash rinse and repeat.

It wont be long before the numbers start rising.

but if you have convinced yourself it isn't possible then your screwed already

I think that just building a list is pretty useless if you don't know how to market to that list, how to engage your subscribers and get them hooked for the next email. You could also have a huge list of raving fans, but if they are not buyers or not targeted enough you will see exactly ZERO sales.

It really depends.

List building is just about the easiest thing you can do when you first start out.

The big issue is that in IM all the focus is on the list build a list build a list build a list.

What fails to get mentioned is that 'the list' is just a cog in the machine that is your business and is reliant on (amongst other things):

• Your traffic getting strategy
• Your customer avatar
• Your value propositions
• Your follow up campaign
• Your sales funnel(s)
• Your product
• Your industry
• Your language skills

and on and on.

In many ways list building should be pushed back in terms of the master plan, you should test most of the above before you seriously start to build a list.

I see a lot of programs that focus on just building a list and create myths like you earn $1 a subscriber without highlighting all the other aspects.

My main niche is very very small and I have <100 subscribers on that list but earn a considerable amount from this list. Why because its a very focused pre qualified list.

What?

Every subscriber on a list accounts to approxiametly $1/m

If that person has 500 people on their list..

That $500 a month, and $6000 a year..

And thats a very small list

Is list building important?

Yes it is.

But it's not my primary focus.

I send traffic to a highly converting sales page. X amount of those visits turns into a $100 [reoccurring] sale.

I am more focused on creating 'immediate' sales via- ==>> ==>> cashflow==>>

Statistics are just statistics for the 'average' MINDSET.

My mindset is that a sale a day is easily achievable for me and others who are focusing on sales (CONVERSIONS).

many of the best in the IM industry claim that list building is one of the most important things you can do.. I would take their advice

So what's your advice then? If not list building...?

It's o.k. if you don't want to build a list, but to call it 'bullshit, a fallacy and a lie'?

Really?

All the newbies come here looking for some magic button, the 'one-click' solution, and never get anywhere due to shiny object syndrome.

A list, that you can communicate with is as close to 'clicking a button, and making money' that I've seen.

Because, once my email sequence is in place, or a broadcast is ready, one click
of my mouse on 'Send' makes money magically appear in my PayPal account.

No bullshit.

To answer your question, I would first like to give you two scenarios. There are two marketers, each promoting an offer. They both don't have a list so they are using PPc to promote.
The first guy is promoting directly to the sales page of the product. The second guy is promoting a squeeze page on the same niche and collecting emails. He then goes ahead and sends the subscribers to the sales page of the product.
After they have finished promoting, they both have used $10K each, and made an income of $30K. That is $20K profits.
Now, another product on the same niche is launched and is HOT. The first guy goes back to his initial methods, i.e promoting the sales page using PPc, the second guy turns to his list and emails them the offer. The first guy spends another $10K promoting again. The second guy however, doesn't spend a dime promoting, and they both make money at the end.
YES, list building is the BLOOD of I.M. It also brings sense to the term Cash Machine.

The problem is not list building, the problem is how your marketing to your list. For example one of my lists has about 500 people on it, I promote software products to those people and have built a great relationship with them as well. On average each of those people spend about $10 per month with me. Im making $5000 per month from that list alone.

PS) If your sale per subscriber is only 1% then something is very wrong with your email marketing strategy.

I mean why do you have a lead magnet for building a list of prospects on the product which you advertise in your link if list building is so bad?

Personally I think you are possibly an genius who has posted a very provocative post in order to get a BIG response that will push your signature link.

Not going to dis you if that is the case as we are all here to earn and learn.

Good job

B

That's because you treat your list as "only a list". People should build business relationship with their list. That will make better CR from it.

1. List building is THE most important thing to do for any serious IM.
2. With expected 1% conversion don't even bother to do it.
3. Where did you get that 500 number from?
4. Don't look at this as an effort, think of it as a bloodline of your business.

You don't need a HUGE list to make money but it does help. Yes list building/email marketing works. I do it and have made money with it.

well I must say if you are looking for a long term IM career than this is the most passive income source.

If i were to start all over what i will never forget to do is building a LIST OF BUYERS and not a list of freebie seekers it pays in the long-run

Well my biggest regret is that I did not start building a list sooner. I was also of the opinion that lists weren't the be all of marketing. Boy was I wrong! The key though, is building the right relationship.

Important, (yes)

The greatest question here must be this Until you have a product that meets the needs of a list why would you really need a list, until you have something that people want and need there will be less reason for them to "stay" on your list.

Of course, list building is very important if you want to make money.

Im not saying don't build a list........some of the people here got that. The key for me is that its not the easiest way of making money (far from it) and it relies on the many other factors that people have identified above. My experience is that conversion rates are normally pretty low and making sure the list is made up of real buyers is far from easy due to so many freebie seekers. Im certainly prepared to take some of the above comments on board.......particularly from those IMers who have clearly shown they know what they are talking about!

Also, it may not be easy (easy costs too much anyway). But it is BEST.

Without list building my business could be destroyed! it's a very important factor of a successful business.

What kind of sales copy do you write that you see 1% on list traffic?

I'm normally a bit concerned if I'm not converting 10% on lower end products..

Also the way you build your list will have a HUGE impact on your conversion rates..

For example:

My buyers lists of about 500 people in the weight loss niche blow my 10k youtube generated subs out of the water..

I've generated 6 figures from a buyers list of 500 people alone because those buyers actually open every every single email ready to buy...

Of couse if you don't spend the majority of your time on profit generating activities then you won't see any ROI on your time..

Especially the way you verbalize things like you've really figured it out..

"Forget list building - it's a fallacy and a lie."

Seriously???

Analyze what you're doing wrong and get to know your target market dude..