6 AUG UPDATE: PayPal Buyers Beware! - Don't Get Screwed Over Like I Did

38 replies
I have been full-time online now since 2009 and I should of known better but to be honest with you I had no idea of a clause in PayPal's User Agreement that made my purchase ineligible for buyer protection regardless of any guarantees by the seller, or even if the seller is violating copyright laws.

I bought into a program that had a 100% money back guarantee, I paid a $97 'initial consultation fee' and then a further $900 once I completed the 'initial assessment' of my needs. What I got was a joke, the guy even distributed a $500 package by a well known motivational speaker without the rights to do so. When I put in a request to the guy to get a refund I was shot down, no big deal I thought, I will just open a claim up with PayPal and provide them the details of the deal and get my money back.

I was shocked to find that due to a clause, 13.2 in the User Agreement, https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...eement-full#13 my purchase was not eligible because it was purchased with a split payment. The agent I spoke to basically agreed with me that I had been ripped off but due to this rule there is nothing that could be done.

The only thing left to do is things like this and let others know that if you see an offer that requires a split payment through PayPal, proceed with extreme caution.

Just passing this on to perhaps help others.

Cheers,
Scott Henderson

Oh and yes the well known motivational speaker has been contacted in hopes of burning the guy anyway I can.

UPDATE Aug 6: 2 Days ago I sought out and found the e mail address for the CEO of PayPal, was not that hard to find. I put together an e mail stating accurate facts in this case, facts that went against what the seller was claiming. I stated that I had hard evidence to back up everything I stated. Within 4 hours I was receiving a phone call from the executive offices at PayPal. Today I get a call from them to notify me that the funds were placed back into my account. Kudos to PayPal and for them having the common sense to see the facts and to go against their initial assessment of the situation, for that I thank them very much.

Cheers,
Scott Henderson
#beware #buyers #paypal #screwed
  • Profile picture of the author TheMostCreative
    I'm sorry for what happened, if it was payment via credit card (via PayPal) you can try reversing the payment.
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  • Profile picture of the author vishwa
    Sorry to heard this. If you have make the payment through your credit card than file a chargeback with your credit card company. This will force PayPal to refund your money back.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Henderson
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I looked in the PayPal agreement for what you wrote below but couldn't find it - can you clarify what they pointed you to? I think I see one possibility, but before I comment I'd like to make sure
      Mike, it is in 13.2 https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...eement-full#13

      It reads as follows:

      13.2 Eligibility Requirements.

      To be eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection you must meet all of the following requirements:

      • Have an Account in good standing.
      • Pay for the eligible item from your Account.
      • Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments - like a deposit followed by a final payment - are not eligible.
      • Open a Dispute within 180 Days of the date you sent the payment, then follow the online dispute resolution process described below under Dispute Resolution. For Pay After Delivery transactions you must open your Dispute within 180 Days of the date of your transaction.
      • You have not received a recovery related to such purchase from another source.
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author Scott Henderson
          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          Did you make it clear to PayPal that you bought two different products?
          Yeah I did but the seller lied to them massively and they agreed with him. The seller went so far as to claim that I reached out to him to get a refund due to financial hardship. I told PayPal that was a bunch of fabricated BS.

          What was even more disturbing was the proof that I gave them that he was distributing copyrighted material without the rights to do so, they still would not budge. I even asked the agent for the president of PayPal email address because I found this so hard to believe and wanted to raise this as high as I possibly could. Agent said it was not available and since then I have not yet had the time to research looking for it.

          I do agree that this seller is fully aware of this PayPal rule and positions his offer to take advantage of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author snakeyes37
    What I don't understand is why did you get shot down for a refund if he's offering a 100% money back guarantee?
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  • Profile picture of the author JPaston
    After being majorly ripped off years ago by something similar, I now purchase everything over $100 through my Amex credit card.

    At least Amex are very supportive.
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    • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
      summary :

      you mean Paypal don't accept split payment ?

      let say the seller need you to pay a downpayment first than proceed to full payment.

      ok so I pay the downpayment to get my bid , successful I pay the full


      but pay pal reject , etc?


      so summary pay pal ONLY accept one Straight payment

      is it ? My english not so good ...as I was reading this thread. Is it this is what thread starter means?
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Henderson
        Originally Posted by Devilfish168 View Post

        summary :

        you mean Paypal don't accept split payment ?
        They will take split payments yes, they just will not refund a purchase if a split payment was involved.
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        • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
          Originally Posted by Scott Henderson View Post

          They will take split payments yes, they just will not refund a purchase if a split payment was involved.
          hmm thanks for the infor
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        The seller went so far as to claim that I reached out to him to get a refund due to financial hardship. I told PayPal that was a bunch of fabricated BS.
        But so what? If there is a 100% money-back guarantee, your reason for seeking a refund is not relevant.

        Marcia Yudkin
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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        Scott, sorry this happened to you and thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. I wasn't aware of this clause.

        I am wondering, though, how do you know the seller didn't have permission to distribute the copyrighted material? (Not being argumentative, just wondering how you found that out or how you would be able to prove it...)
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        • Profile picture of the author Scott Henderson
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          I am wondering, though, how do you know the seller didn't have permission to distribute the copyrighted material? (Not being argumentative, just wondering how you found that out or how you would be able to prove it...)
          I became suspicious after seeing how much of a joke his program was and reached out to the motivational speaker whose material was being distributed. The speakers executive assistant verified to me that nobody has distribution rights and is working what they term as a 'serious matter' on their end.

          As far as proving it was as simple as providing them with the communication traffic from him with download links on his website.
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  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    Whenever I purchase something via paypal that I feel is expensive I always opt to pay by credit card through paypal, you can choose this when checking out, that way if there are any problems then I can just file a chargeback through the credit card company. Although, I have not had any problems yet, but I am prepared

    al
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  • Profile picture of the author smna1586
    Really sad. I didn't know that about PayPal.

    Thanks for Sharing with us.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
    Well that stinks.

    If you want to keep agitating, you should consider a well-worded letter to his state's attorney general, the FTC and, for kicks, the BBB.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I agree - you need to go after the seller. It should be a lesson to others here to use a credit card for such purchases - you can't count on a payment processor to protect you.

      I don't agree that Paypal is the problem - and unfortunately a couple people in this thread are taking that as 'fact'. They will go on to believe PP is a scam or out to get them - and that's not right.

      Paypal has to have some restrictions and I'm not surprised they don't cover products that have multiple payments. When you think about it - you didn't request a refund after the first payment so as far as PP knew, you were a satisfied customer.

      If there's enough fuss, Paypal might have second thoughts about allowing this seller to use its platform....
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  • Profile picture of the author Riki Stein
    Thanks, Scott, for letting us know about this hidden clause.

    I feel really sorry for you.

    Just a random thought: if PayPal has social media accounts, you can raise a stink there. Similar to when someone gets screwed over by an airline, they head to Facebook, get all their FB friends, and all the FB groups they're part of, to like or comment on their post where they tag the company (or post directly on the company's page) - which forces them to respond and take care of the issue because now it's public and potentially damaging to their reputation.

    Not that PayPal is the one who screwed you over - but they are at fault by siding with the scammers.

    You can make a post similar to the one you made here, and post anywhere and everywhere there are people who use PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author austria
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    What my friends are complaining about when they talk about Paypal is their practically huge fees on each transaction
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    I'm really sorry to hear this. With Paypal their decisions can be rather arbitrary and binding, and what makes it worse is that they do not give any special consideration even when it comes to a high-ticket purchase where a lot of money is at stake.

    With digital products that you purchase there is always a certain element of risk you have to accept, unfortunately.
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  • Profile picture of the author DotComHelp
    I would take a screenshot of the sales page you ordered from and send that to PayPal. If you have a picture showing the guarantee how can they refuse to send your money back?
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  • Profile picture of the author ATevan22
    Sorry for the dilemma. If you paid by credit card you can file a dispute/chargeback with your CC company.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
    Scott,

    I'm sorry for your loss, but I think Paypal has done exactly what they should do in circumstances like these.

    Once you made the 2nd payment, what choice does Paypal have but to assume that you were satisfied with the product? You, yourself, indicated satisfaction by (instead of asking for a refund against the initial payment)... paying a second installment!

    It's one thing to have buyer's remorse shortly after a purchase, or to evaluate a product for some period of time and then come to the determination that it does not live up to your expectations. It's another thing altogether to make a 2nd payment if you are NOT satisfied.

    That's the whole reason that buyer protection does not extend to installment purchases/subscriptions.

    I do think you may be able to get some satisfaction by pursuing the copyright infringement issues, but only if the copyright holder initiates legal action against the individual. That is a matter for those two parties to reconcile.

    I certainly wouldn't expect Paypal to put themselves in the middle of such a dispute.
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  • Profile picture of the author GlobalTrader
    Someone further up this thread suggested the FTC, Attorney General's office of the perp's state and the BBB. I agree with 2 of the 3. The FTC will most likely be a waste of your time. However, the Attorney General's office and the BBB are absolutely your best chance for any kind of return of your money.

    In my lifetime (I am 62) I have gained positive resolution to many business and personal matters by contacting the Attorney General's office. I have also suggested this to several friends and relatives who also had positive results. Nothing scares the bejeezus out of someone like getting an official letter from the states Attorney General's office.

    One additional note in this regards, I would contact his state's Attorney General's office and your states office as well. In all of my uses in 30+ years, I have contacted or filed a complaint with my home state and that was enough. There is or was something in the law about any company doing business in a state can be prevented from continuing to do business in another state (your state) if the matter is not resolved.

    The largest $$ use was for my Daughter and Son-in-law who paid for a home inspection when they bought their home which was said to be termite free to find termites within a month of moving in. It cost them $2500 to repair the damage and the home inspection company would only agree to reimbursing their inspection fee.

    I told them to file a complaint with the Attorney Generals office who then took their case back to the inspection company. They first offered $1000 immediately. State asked if acceptable, they said no. Inspection company then came back with their final offer of $2000 or take them to civil court. They accepted as it probably would have cost more to go civil.

    I got $500 back from a mailing list company when I was receiving 20% returns on my 1st 1000 piece mailing and their guarantee was for no more than 5% - they balked about a refund because I did not want to waste postage on anothe 4000 pieces. I filed complaint and got a full $500 refund.

    One last thing before filing the complaints - try to contact the perp one more time - lay out the facts of what you are going to do within 5 days on a specific date of say August 10th, 2015 if he does not refund your money in full as his posted guarantee implies. Also, be sure to make some screen captures of his guarantee page - the AG will need these to decide if you have a case or not. I would not mention to AG about trying to get a refund thru PayPal - it is not their business, the transaction was between you the buyer and them the seller.

    Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Henderson
      UPDATE Aug 6: 2 Days ago I sought out and found the e mail address for the CEO of PayPal, was not that hard to find. I put together an e mail stating accurate facts in this case, facts that went against what the seller was claiming. I stated that I had hard evidence to back up everything I stated. Within 4 hours I was receiving a phone call from the executive offices at PayPal. Today I get a call from them to notify me that the funds were placed back into my account. Kudos to PayPal and for them having the common sense to see the facts and to go against their initial assessment of the situation, for that I thank them very much.

      Cheers,
      Scott Henderson
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Kudos to PayPal and for them having the common sense to see the facts and to go against their initial assessment of the situation, for that I thank them very much.
      I'd add - kudos to you for presenting the problem in a way that made sense to Paypal. Wonder if that seller will also be "hearing" from them...
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      Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Ditto

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I'd add - kudos to you for presenting the problem in a way that made sense to Paypal.
        I think you got an exceptional response, and have no doubt that it was because you approached Paypal in a rational, business-like manner and presented a good, well-documented case.

        Congratulations are in order.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    What a great share Scott, and thank you for the update. I'm glad you got your funds back. Even though you made a second payment, you still didn't get what was promised AND the seller was violating more than one law, it sounds like you made a logical, coherent argument to the CEO and you got your funds back.

    Any updates on the seller?

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author expressg
    Grats. You should also make others aware of this person. There is a FB group specifically there to warn others of shady online marketers.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    way to go...and thx re the split-payment warning; I'm a veteran IMer and didn't know that...
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  • Profile picture of the author 612chan
    Good to know that you eventually got your money back.

    Originally Posted by Scott Henderson View Post

    ...
    UPDATE Aug 6: 2 Days ago I sought out and found the e mail address for the CEO of PayPal, was not that hard to find. I put together an e mail stating accurate facts in this case, facts that went against what the seller was claiming. I stated that I had hard evidence to back up everything I stated. Within 4 hours I was receiving a phone call from the executive offices at PayPal. Today I get a call from them to notify me that the funds were placed back into my account. Kudos to PayPal and for them having the common sense to see the facts and to go against their initial assessment of the situation, for that I thank them very much.

    Cheers,
    Scott Henderson
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  • Profile picture of the author Skystar
    .
    Scott - you keep money in your PayPal account? Shame on you!

    "Yeah I know that but unfortunately I paid directly out of my PayPal account, wish I had not now."

    You might find out one of these days when PP freezes your account or reverses a payment or who knows what else, that keeping money in a PP account is a no-no! It's also not necessary - you can pay with a CC or access funds in your bank with no problem _if_ you write your bank a note telling them not to pay direct demands from PP (not payments made thru PP).
    .
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