FTC rules summary?

16 years ago

Honestly I think you're much better off following the official guidelines rather than someone else's interpretation of them. I agree they aren't super clear in places, but they do offer an overall sense of what is acceptable and what's not. Someone else giving you a summary may not be spot on (in fact I've seen several misconceptions posted here in this very forum).

Wendy

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seasoned

16 years ago

Be HONEST.
Be REASONABLE.
Have Disclaimers for things slightly unlikely.
Don't show very unlikely things.
Don't Harrass.
Don't break privacy rules.
Don't break coppa

Do all that, and you should be fine. Of course, I am not a lawyer. NO lawyer will summarize it in a short fashion and put it here because just detailing how SALES(as in at a discount) should be treated honestly according to the FTC could take several pages!

Steve

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Sylonious

16 years ago

Here is a summary from Joel Comm's Attorney Kevin Houchin.

Originally Posted by seasoned

Be HONEST.
Be REASONABLE.
Have Disclaimers for things slightly unlikely.
Don't show very unlikely things.
Don't Harrass.
Don't break privacy rules.
Don't break coppa

Do all that, and you should be fine. Of course, I am not a lawyer. NO lawyer will summarize it in a short fashion and put it here because just detailing how SALES(as in at a discount) should be treated honestly according to the FTC could take several pages!

Steve

They said specifically that you can't use disclaimers for a-typical/testimonials results anymore. This is bad news for Subway's Jared.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Sylonious

Here is a summary from Joel Comm's Attorney Kevin Houchin.

They said specifically that you can't use disclaimers for a-typical/testimonials results anymore. This is bad news for Subway's Jared.

I said SLIGHTLY unlikely!!!!! Jared's accomplishments were basied on dedication and willpower. GRANTED, some of subways sandwiches might have HELPED, but such a weight loss is NOT merely slightly unlikely!

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bgmacaw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Si_P

Can anyone summarize the FTC rules which come into play Dec 1st?

Three Felonies a Day

"There's no way to rule innocent men.
The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime
that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

--Ayn Rand

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mbacak

16 years ago

I would be highly cautious using anyone's advice unless they are a FTC attorney.

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wordwizard

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Sylonious

Here is a summary from Joel Comm's Attorney Kevin Houchin.

They said specifically that you can't use disclaimers for a-typical/testimonials results anymore. This is bad news for Subway's Jared.

Bad news for Jared and anyone else in the weight loss niche, I'd say...

Originally Posted by mbacak

I would be highly cautious using anyone's advice unless they are a FTC attorney.

What about Steven Wagenheim's report. That made a lot of sense to me!
And thanks, Matt, for pointing me to this thread.

Elisabeth

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DogScout

16 years ago

Originally Posted by wordwizard

Bad news for Jared and anyone else in the weight loss niche, I'd say..

Elisabeth

One reason "Five dollar foot long" is their new campaign

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Jill Carpenter

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Si_P

Can anyone summarize the FTC rules which come into play Dec 1st?

The PDF ive read is over 80 pages and can be quite unclear.

Thanks,

Can someone summarize the rules here for me on the Warrior Forum? The TOS is very long to read, and I'm just too tired to really look right now. They are quite confusing.

Come on! Who is running your business?

Originally Posted by Si_P

So how does it work then if you are basing your content off a product that you haven't actually bought. If you summarize what the product creator is saying the results could be but you aren't actually showing any testimonials, screenshots or proof, do you still need a disclaimer?

Probably the best way around this is to buy the product yourself and have a real opinion.

Sorry to sound so harsh. Maybe I just woke up on the wrong side today.

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Si_P 16 years ago

There is no need for that, all i am asking is for some constructive advice. Everyone else seems to be able to give it.

Its ok if you are an established marketer who is making good money and has an established business but for someone who is recently new to IM and still learning, maybe i can't afford to buy the $500-$2000 dollar products that i am targeting to review them. I am using all the cheapest and free material i can to make a buck and I don't need someone like you dissing my efforts.

Sorry everyone else but all i am looking for is advice.
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Sylonious

16 years ago

Originally Posted by DogScout

One reason "Five dollar foot long" is their new campaign

Yeah, but Jared is still up on the site making "illegal" claims. Most of these big corporations probably aren't aware of the FTC rule changes and they probably don't care. I strongly doubt that Subway will ever get rid of Jared or take down his weight loss testimonial.

IMO, these new rule changes aren't really aimed at Subway, LA Weight Loss or Weight Watchers.

These rule changes are aimed at companies like Dual Action Cleanse. This is the only popular site that I've seen make the necessary changes to their testimonials and they probably did it because they FTC has been on their back for a long time now.

Originally Posted by busting

As far as I understood it is not enough to put a disclaimer at the bottom. If you are an affiliate and have an affiliate website you need to make it very clear that you are not a bonafide user of a the product you promote and must make it clear that you are an affiliate and get paid a comission when referring someone.

If you have a link for example that says: Click Here For Your Ultimate Guide...

After that link you have to write something like (note: this is an affiliate link.....)

And I think that this will destroy conversions.

I can definitely understand why you would be confused about this. Because they have had a lot of mixed messages about disclosure. At first they tried to say you had to put the disclosure above any and all links out to your affiliate merchant.

After they saw the panic they caused they back peddled on the issue and Cleland Said this:

RC (Richard Cleland From The FTC) - Disclosures can be made in different ways, whether you make it outside of the text but in proximity to blog, or incorporate it into the blog discussion itself--those are the issues that bloggers will have discretion about." Source: Fast Company

So technically it can be outside the text area, but I think if you put the disclaimer in small print you would be pushing it.

Originally Posted by seasoned

I said SLIGHTLY unlikely!!!!! Jared's accomplishments were basied on dedication and willpower. GRANTED, some of subways sandwiches might have HELPED, but such a weight loss is NOT merely slightly unlikely!

Let's be honest. Unless you have a weightloss product that tastes like a VERY high fat producing item that your customers generally eat, 500 pounds of weightloss will NEVER be typical. ESPECIALLY since you would have to have NO care about yourself, and eat a TON, to be over 500 pounds overweight. Just this morning, I was thinking HEY, I came down over 2 pants sizes(I don't count odd sizes as sizes, since most stores don't generally sell them. If I did, it would be over 4 sizes.), and resolved to NEVER go over, I should work at reducing yet ANOTHER! I started TODAY! Still, I know it will be a bit tough. But I DO care something about my weight and health.

Steve

It doesn't matter whether it's 5 pounds or 500 pounds. The typical customer result for all weight loss programs is absolutely no weight loss at all. Most people won't stick to a diet for even a week and definitely not the 3 or 4 months it takes to lose any significant weight.

Here are some more examples:
LA Weight Loss Testimonials

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dh2312

16 years ago

Frankly, it's kind of scary because, as I understand it, under the new rules it is not enough to use disclaimers even if you can prove the testimonials are actual. You must also prove that these results are also TYPICAL, meaning that the average person can achieve them, I guess.

The problem is, it can be literally impossible to quantify what is "typical" since results can, and usually do, vary anywhere from zero results to extremely successful results depending on how much effort the individual put into using the product.

The new guidelines would seem to make it almost impossible to use testimonials unless you have statistical analysis to prove that the results stated are "typical".

Here is a good synopsis of what the new rules are about:

joelcomm.com/new_ftc_rules_for_testimonials_1.html

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blingblam

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dh2312

Frankly, it's kind of scary because, as I understand it, under the new rules it is not enough to use disclaimers even if you can prove the testimonials are actual. You must also prove that these results are also TYPICAL, meaning that the average person can achieve them, I guess.

The problem is, it can be literally impossible to quantify what is "typical" since results can, and usually do, vary anywhere from zero results to extremely successful results depending on how much effort the individual put into using the product.

The new guidelines would seem to make it almost impossible to use testimonials unless you have statistical analysis to prove that the results stated are "typical".

Here is a good synopsis of what the new rules are about:

joelcomm.com/new_ftc_rules_for_testimonials_1.html

Impossible? I'm not sure about that. I thought if the results weren't typical you're now required to say what the typical results are... so basically you can have a testimonial saying "I lost 500 pounds using this product" (has to be true) but then right beside it you're required to say "These results are not typical. Typical results from using this product include losing no weight at all because the average person is not going to exercise and eat the right foods. Moreover, a typical person cannot lose 500 pounds without disappearing."

I think it's okay to say something like that, but I'm not a lawyer. As for the FTC, I'll let them try and take my moula... I'll give my money away and declare bankruptcy and then have them pay the legal costs.

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Profit-smart

16 years ago

Adapt or die.

Personally, I love the new FTC rules.

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Si_P

16 years ago

So how does it work then if you are basing your content off a product that you haven't actually bought. If you summarize what the product creator is saying the results could be but you aren't actually showing any testimonials, screenshots or proof, do you still need a disclaimer?

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busting

16 years ago

Man what can I do? I have 78 web 2.0 properties and they need to be edited all. Damn. They are really getting on my nerves these FTC guys. I mean we are adults and everybody is responsible for hisd actions. Why should I put a damn disclaimer saying things like This is Not typical this is this, this is that..........

I man if there is a real possibilty of achieving some kind of results then why the f*** do I need to put these disclaimers everywhere. I am sorry guys I am just so angry because of loosing time and money because of the FTC.

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Damn I should have taken a screenshot of that PPC ad. DAMN !!!!!!!

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mrmatiesto

16 years ago

Hi

Just my 2 cents take it or leave it. I hardly ever use testimonials making any earnings claims. Even when I offer something from other marketers I usually strip out any wild claims and testimonials. I try never to make any over the top or hyped statements in any of my sales pages. If the product can't stand on its own merit and be shown to work or do what it says it can then no one needs it as far as I am concerned.

When I do use testimonials which like I said is rare I ask those giving them to be honest and not to make any claims other that the product is good and works as stated.

The amount of money made by various marketers on any give offer is more dependent on that marketers ability to sell. What I am able to sell 100 of some one else might only sell 2.

My advise let your products speak for themselves.

Jim

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busting

16 years ago

As far as I understood it is not enough to put a disclaimer at the bottom. If you are an affiliate and have an affiliate website you need to make it very clear that you are not a bonafide user of a the product you promote and must make it clear that you are an affiliate and get paid a comission when referring someone.

If you have a link for example that says: Click Here For Your Ultimate Guide...

After that link you have to write something like (note: this is an affiliate link.....)

And I think that this will destroy conversions.

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Damn I should have taken a screenshot of that PPC ad. DAMN !!!!!!!

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Chris Pambos

16 years ago

Originally Posted by busting

As far as I understood it is not enough to put a disclaimer at the bottom. If you are an affiliate and have an affiliate website you need to make it very clear that you are not a bonafide user of a the product you promote and must make it clear that you are an affiliate and get paid a comission when referring someone.

If you have a link for example that says: Click Here For Your Ultimate Guide...

After that link you have to write something like (note: this is an affiliate link.....)

And I think that this will destroy conversions.

Being upfront and honest with your potential customers actually increases conversions for those that are highly successful affiliates.

They are all upfront and honest about how they are an affiliate for an affiliate product and to hit the home run, they offer a unique bonus that can't be acquired anywhere else besides from that affiliate specifically, once again, raising conversions even higher.

Excellent summary, thank you for posting this source.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Let's be honest. Unless you have a weightloss product that tastes like a VERY high fat producing item that your customers generally eat, 500 pounds of weightloss will NEVER be typical. ESPECIALLY since you would have to have NO care about yourself, and eat a TON, to be over 500 pounds overweight. Just this morning, I was thinking HEY, I came down over 2 pants sizes(I don't count odd sizes as sizes, since most stores don't generally sell them. If I did, it would be over 4 sizes.), and resolved to NEVER go over, I should work at reducing yet ANOTHER! I started TODAY! Still, I know it will be a bit tough. But I DO care something about my weight and health.

Steve

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keithng

16 years ago

Is the new rules applicable in all countries, or just U.S.?

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Gary Rambo

16 years ago

If you've purchased IM legal documents through someone like AutoWebLaw Pro, you may already have the FTC documents you can add to your site. I was getting another legal document yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to find them there.

Gary

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alltweed

16 years ago

bump bump bump bump

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seasoned

16 years ago

"Click the link to see an "illegal" testimonial made by Subway's Jared. "

HOW is that illegal? It says HE lost 245 pounds in a YEAR through exercise and diet, and that others were inspired to try and did the same. Did he do it? I guess he MUST have, since it has been on so long, etc.... Was it reasonable? YES! Did he say it was easy? NOPE! Is he asking for money, etc... NOPE!

AND, not that it should require it, it says "*Individuals lost weight by exercising and eating a balanced, reduced-calorie diet that included SUBWAY® sandwiches with 6 grams of fat or less. Their results are not typical. Your loss if any will vary. SUBWAY® Restaurants does not endorse the diet Jared created and cautions anyone embarking on a weight-loss plan to consult their physician.
"

Basically, what I get out of it, is that their sandwices can be tasty(I think they are), and may help you to stick to the diet(they can), and won't hurt it much(TRUE). STILL, the ad makes it clear that you diet AND exercise! It doesn't even REALLY say that they cause you to lose weight.

Steve

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mbacak

16 years ago

You might want to listen to this before listening to anything else.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...Wy6DaUrDocq5OI

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FTC rules summary?

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