Open Letter To Marketers... Re: AdSwaps

37 replies
Just want to let you know...

If I'm on your list and everyday you send me a new mailing with a link to a 'FREE' ebook worth $47 etc etc etc from your "friend"....

You lost a subscriber.

This stuff is getting out of hand.

I know it's the latest thing but COME ON!

:rolleyes:
#adswaps #letter #marketers #open
  • Profile picture of the author Adam Carn
    Believe it or not but many people like getting the latest offers from marketers. If you don't then probably you shouldn't be on their list.

    Thanks,
    Adam
    Signature
    Taking a break...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460700].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dave Toomey
      Originally Posted by Adam Carn View Post

      Believe it or not but many people like getting the latest offers from marketers. If you don't then probably you shouldn't be on their list.

      Thanks,
      Adam
      Not sure (so forgive me if I'm wrong) but I think you misunderstand me.

      I'm talking about marketers 'swapping' their lists. Basically, you send my 'freebie' list building offer to your list and I'll send your to mine.

      A really good list building strategy.

      BUT

      I've started to notice alot of marketers doing NOTHING BUT this day after day.

      Instead of coming across as providing value to your list it's starting to feel like I'm being used...not good for your 'current' subscribers.

      Hope that's clear.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460725].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Adam Carn
        Originally Posted by Dave Toomey View Post


        I've started to notice alot of marketers doing NOTHING BUT this day after day.

        Instead of coming across as providing value to your list it's starting to feel like I'm being used...not good for your 'current' subscribers.

        Hope that's clear.
        Nothing wrong with swapping lists as long as it's done right. Giving unrelated or repeated offers to each others lists is silly and bound to pee people off. This won't even do the list owners any good. On the other hand carefully selected list swap partners with relevant offers can actually benefit both the list and list owner.

        Thanks,
        Adam
        Signature
        Taking a break...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460779].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dave Toomey
          Originally Posted by Adam Carn View Post

          Nothing wrong with swapping lists as long as it's done right. Giving unrelated or repeated offers to each others lists is silly and bound to pee people off. This won't even do the list owners any good. On the other hand carefully selected list swap partners with relevant offers can actually benefit both the list and list owner.

          Thanks,
          Adam
          My point exactly.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460808].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author clint48
            I had a thread on this a couple of weeks ago, I am spending so much time deleting emails I don't have time to read any, so they are really hurting email marketing which will hurt their bottom line eventually.

            Clint
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460833].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Dave Toomey
              Originally Posted by clint48 View Post

              I had a thread on this a couple of weeks ago, I am spending so much time deleting emails I don't have time to read any, so they are really hurting email marketing which will hurt their bottom line eventually.

              Clint
              Sorry Clint. Didn't see that.

              Hate to be recycling old posts lol.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460858].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
                When marketing to your list..... I don't advise promoting a ton of products.
                Here is why. say you get an offer from another marketer for a nice commission .you impulsively react to the $$$ signs and send it to your list as the next best thing. your list responds by taking your advice and purchases or downloads said product.

                If the product does not deliver has a bug in it or something that has been rehashed and repackaged your list will go from responsive to disgusted. simple. then this hurts your own efforts because now they don't trust you. people talk and before you know it your list is depleted .(just an e.g.) not always the case but if you continue to send out stuff just willy nilly you portray 2 things one is you don't care at all about what you sell or promote as long as you get paid. and 2 is you portray yourself as also being of the same "type" of marketer and you WILL lose credibility . if you are promoting a product you have tested ,verified and are convinced your subscribers would benefit from then and only then should you promote it the best way to do that is to write your own experience with said product or site.

                That's my opinion thanks for letting me share it.

                -WD
                Signature

                "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1461218].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author zoro
        Originally Posted by Dave Toomey View Post

        Not sure (so forgive me if I'm wrong) but I think you misunderstand me.

        I'm talking about marketers 'swapping' their lists. Basically, you send my 'freebie' list building offer to your list and I'll send your to mine.

        A really good list building strategy.

        BUT

        I've started to notice alot of marketers doing NOTHING BUT this day after day.

        Instead of coming across as providing value to your list it's starting to feel like I'm being used...not good for your 'current' subscribers.

        Hope that's clear.
        Yep, as soon as I see an email starting with ... My Good Friend xyz has just ... bla bla bla, I will instantly unsubscribe to the list.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2305419].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    it is getting kinda a crazy. I get the same offer from 10 people.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460714].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author thenextlevel
    I like free stuff
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460716].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dave Toomey
      Originally Posted by thenextlevel View Post

      I like free stuff
      me too but.... Good free stuff.

      The drivel I'm seeing is in most cases worse that some PLR stuff...or in fact PLR.

      Recommending this 'free' stuff without actually checking out it's value is hurting their lists.

      Its just... build your list numbers without thinking about the consequenses.

      You want a 'responsive' list...not a large list.

      Building a large list is the IM red herring of 2009.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460732].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Imran Naseem
    Banned
    I have cut down doing this.

    I used to do this a lot but although it can build a list fast some of the people on your list can get really angry.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460729].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ivanm
    I hear you, I don't mind adswaps but marketers really need to make sure the person their swapping with has #1 a great product to give away and #2 is an ethical marketer who won't try abusing his list.

    Adswaps also tend to very quickly decrease the value of your list because the more lists your subscriber is subscribed to the less likely they are to open up your emails.

    For example you guys have seen when ever a big launch comes along everyone promotes it. I'm on like 20+ marketers list but I'm only taking the offer from one person.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460768].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author radhika
      People still like free stuff. So publishers use it as a marketing strategy.

      .
      Signature
      Follow up Autoresponder PRO :: 33% Discount!!
      FREE Upgrades! IMPROVED Email Deliverability!!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460781].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Dave Toomey
        Originally Posted by radhika View Post

        People still like free stuff. So publishers use it as a marketing strategy.

        .
        The problem is like any other strategy is there is a point of diminishing returns.

        It's getting to the point of spam.

        Marketers that provided me, as a customer, great content after purchase have turned into email spammers.

        The same 'cut and paste' email telling me about their new friend and his 'offer'...every day...it's bad relationship marketing.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460855].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          [DELETED]
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1461226].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Dave Toomey
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            Everyday?! Holy crap, that is bad. I just had an adswap 3 weeks ago, i have one tomorrow and then at the end of the money and I was WORRYING about overdoing it...

            Rob
            Got 2 guys emailing 5 ish times a week. The only reason I'm not dumping them is purely to see what happens.

            Once every 3 weeks with plenty of content inbetween them seems perfectly reasonable to me.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1461236].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Robyn8243
      I agree it has gotten out of hand. When you start seeing several offers every day offering
      a free gift valued at $47 or $97, after a while you just view all of it as total B.S.

      An occasional offer of a free gift worth $97 may be believable.

      Send such an offer every day and it becomes abundantly clear that all you are getting
      is an invitation to join another list.

      Robyn
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460792].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mhendenterprises
    This is the strategy that "mentors" are teaching. But even I can see that daily drivel would irritate even your most ardent subscriber.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460824].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    Some of it is touted as 'building a relationship' in the sense that you're not selling - you're giving for nothing (ie. in the income sense) in return. I can see how that works for newbies totally unaware of adswaps and just thinking ... "Wow, how does this dude make money".

    And then some of the free stuff has cookies for sales so aren't just adswaps.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1460834].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    I once got 9 invites to buy a product from 9 different 'gurus'. Every email was word for word the same. I am not sure how that is developing a relationship with me, but in order to do so, they will have to call now.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1461468].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sean Ski
    If it aint broke, don't fix it... I'm not saying pounding your list is a good thing but ad swaps work, if every time a marketer sent out an ad swap email they had massive un-subscribes they'd be pretty quick to stop doing ad swaps. To me it's like a radio station, if you don't like it, turn it off (unsubscribe)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1461602].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dave Toomey
      Originally Posted by Sean Ski View Post

      If it aint broke, don't fix it... I'm not saying pounding your list is a good thing but ad swaps work, if every time a marketer sent out an ad swap email they had massive un-subscribes they'd be pretty quick to stop doing ad swaps. To me it's like a radio station, if you don't like it, turn it off (unsubscribe)
      I really do get the power of the strategy BUT.....
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1462557].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1462601].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Adam Carn
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        Or it could be the reason they have to keep doing them - due to mass unsubscribing

        I do agree though, the best thing to do is "Turn off the radio" if it bothers you.

        As long as they're transparent, I don't see a problem with it, other than it's used so much now that when I want to send my list an email about something I think they will find useful, I don't want the purpose being perceived as an ad swap, when it's clearly not.
        Unless the list consists of IMers they won't usually know it's a list swap.

        Adam
        Signature
        Taking a break...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1462647].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
    Originally Posted by Dave Toomey View Post

    Just want to let you know...

    If I'm on your list and everyday you send me a new mailing with a link to a 'FREE' ebook worth $47 etc etc etc from your "friend"....

    You lost a subscriber.

    This stuff is getting out of hand.

    I know it's the latest thing but COME ON!

    :rolleyes:
    As someone who's been guilty of this in the past...I understand your plight.

    The real key with this stuff is creating a gift that's both unique but also beneficial.

    All the same reports get passed around just to collect subscribers and if you don't build a relationship...then you're just going to be stuck with a big aweber bill and a list that doesn't believe in you.

    On the other hand...list swapping is an effective way to build a list...and done properly (with other sources of traffic) is a good way to build a list and provide value.

    The key is just to not overdo it.

    Cheers,

    Brad
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1462684].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kevinfar
    I guess it always boils down to the same thing.. are you in it to make a quick buck (or in this case build a list fast) or are you in for the long run and are determined to provide good and solid content to your customers (in this case people on your list)?

    There is definitely nothing wrong with ad swaps as long as they are relevant and not over done.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1462689].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Roy Siew
    Dave,

    Good point bringing this up! Lately I've been enjoying lots of freebies but after a while all of the emails look more or less the same as DogScout rightly mentioned - but at the same time, it's pretty easy then to spot the IMers who take the time to differentiate themselves and write quality content - the rest I just unsubscribed..

    I guess the lesson is that at the end of the day, if we're in this biz for the long haul, every touchpoint with our customers needs to count.
    Signature

    "The cost of being wrong is less than the cost of doing nothing." - Seth Godin

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1496546].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KathleenHobbins
    I love free stuff, too, but there's only so much I can read, digest and handle, even if it is free.

    I have been introduced to some good programs through adswaps and I appreciate them when they are done right. But the guys that I continue to trust don't do adswaps often, give plenty of good content in between time and build up a beneficial relationship. I always open their emails.

    On the other hand, I think that some email marketers think that the adswaps themselves are good content, because we get content in exchange for opting in. I stop opening their emails pretty quickly if they have that attitude. I might not unsubscribe. I probably just keep deleting them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1496650].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Shana_Adam
    I guess its what they call recycled traffic. Or recycling your list.

    Why not focus on fresh new subscribers instead of recycling exiting ones via adswaps and having more people exit as a result of receiving low value spammy looking offers even if it is free?

    There is no point having a 100K list if the conversions are dismal whats the point?

    Have a small loyal list and protect them like gold from all the crap out there and you will milk the list.

    The money is in the list for people who respect their customers and dont send them 10emails a week.

    Jees are people not allowed to have the time to have a life and work at their business without a daily pitch from you who is desperate to milk every cent out of them. Desperation can be smelt from a mile off.

    While it is nice to receive a freebie and find out whats going on in your market from your so called trusted guru or mentor. If you are constantly diverting there attention by pushing them away you can actually lose sales long term because guess what
    they have found some where else to go shopping and it wont be at your store.

    Also gives the impression that obviously you are not good enough and your new best guru friends products are.

    Respect your list and dont treat them like they are stupid.

    Each email is actually a human being!
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1496838].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JamesBone777
    What a newbie like should do now? I'm just starting to build my list and as I read your thoughts it's confusing me a bit.My opinion is,yes it should not be abused like sending our subscribers with 10 to 15 emails a week.I used to be a subscriber to maybe around 20-30 internet gurus or coach,and I found out that these people are JV and everyday each promoting one another,most of the time marketers are giving away the same freebies with different pitch page.I found it annoying sometimes and I did unsubscribed.Now that I am starting to be a marketer and building my list,,how should I do it correctly? My vision is to give only valuable products to my subscribers,can I say no to a prospect JV after checking that his product or freebie is just a crap? One more thing is I think I should always look for fresh subscribers,I mean people in a common room may have common subscribers and should not be promoting each other otherwise it might irritate their subscribers.What do you think guys? Please give this newbie some advise and correct direction.Thanks a lot!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1501157].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
      I'm not really a big fan of adswaps - I think they're fine if used sparingly (maybe once a month or so) but I've been on a few lists where I get offered freebies from other marketers a few times a week (it just got annoying after a while).

      I intend to try one or two myself but I'll think carefully about which marketers I will approach for the swap and make sure that their marketing style and list are similar to mine.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1501171].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LauriNiskasaari
    Well, there are folks who unsubscribe from your list even if you send email saying you`ll give them $1000 for free...

    You don`t need to do ad swap every day...or even every week... just dont overdo it...

    And when you select ad swap partners, actually check out what they are offering. If the freebie is good and provides value it can`t be that bad...

    -Lauri
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1501186].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Cornetta
    Sorry but I talk with swappers everyday and I am one of the most active swappers at safe-swap with over 50 under my belt. And yes it used to concern me when subscribers made comments similar to your and or unsubscribe but then after discussing it long and hard with several other IM'ers we all agreed then that "you" are not the typical subscriber and it's just not worth chasing every single person on the planet. That is not to say that what you say and your feelings and beliefs and stance on the issue is wrong, what I am saying is that if you don't want those types of emails any longer the only thing to do is only subscribe to very pinpointed niche lists like "flea removal for small dogs" because that guy can't swap with too many other list owners anyway so your bound to just get his or her one boring email a month.

    I'm not even joking here and I said "flea removal for small dogs" because if you make it any less specific then that like lets say you leave out the "small" word or you have a subscription to a list that is "flea removal for small dogs" without the word "flea removal" these list owners are going to swap with every single word you can find on this planet + small dogs.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2305239].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JordanFrancis
    "AdSwaps" sound like a great way to either annoy your subscribers, remove your subscribers, or leak your subscribers to a list you don't own. Of course, it works both ways...but still.

    Maybe the smart ones segment their most valuable subscribers out before doing this
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2305515].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alniches
    I do adswapping and most of the times whenever possible, I would refrain myself from using the "free...worth...$$$" cliched subject or have that line even included in the body. I mean, if I were the one reading it, I would have sniffed that there's a catch to it in me joining as a subscriber.

    I would prefer to send each email as unique as I can. It may be repeating the offers but from another perspective. That way it might not hurt my list that much.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2305724].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author paul wolfe
    Question for all you AdSwappers out there in IM Land: Do AdSwaps actually bring you 'targetted traffic' in your niche?

    Has anyone done any testing and tracking - is the subscriber who comes via an AdSwap as 'good' a Subscriber as those that come to you via your regular attraction device (whether that's YouTube, Article Marketing, Guest Posts, etc)?


    TIA
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2306496].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author David Walker
    I am a perfect example of overdoing adswaps.

    I used to do them an almost daily basis and took my list from under 1,000 to over 10,000 in the space of about three months.

    All was well, the open rates were decent as were the click throughs until my list just got fed up of receiving the offers - I assume they were on multiple "ad swap" lists and just started ignoring obvious "swap" messages.

    I have deleted approximately 50% of my subscriber base in the past six weeks due to them not opening emails for a lengthy period of time and I am nuturing those I have left / new subscribers with a two/three times weekly email newsletter.

    I provide them with good content and the occasional offer, no "ad swap" stuff as of yet and the open rates / click throughs are improving steadily.

    I may return to the occasional ad swap every now and again with trusted JV partners who provide a quality product and then integrate that swap within my newsletter content.

    But I am done with solo ad swap mailings, it can be too damaging.

    David
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2306545].message }}

Trending Topics