Have you even asked for a refund?

by AFD
37 replies
I never asked for a refund yet and I'm wondering why you ask for a refund after reading more than 20 positive reviews and clear product description....

I know there are always suckers but let me hear valid points why you are asking for a refund....

BTW... suckers don't ask refunds.. they just file pp disputes..

afd
#asked #refund
  • Profile picture of the author Wide
    I had my first refund about a year ago (not from this forum), first and only time I have requested a refund.
    Paid a guy to create me a minisite ($300 or something), he promised me to deliver within 5 days. 29 days after paying him I requested a refund. Never received anything from him and never got an reply from my mails.
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    • Profile picture of the author AFD
      Originally Posted by Wide View Post

      I had my first refund about a year ago (not from this forum), first and only time I have requested a refund.
      Paid a guy to create me a minisite ($300 or something), he promised me to deliver within 5 days. 29 days after paying him I requested a refund. Never received anything from him and never got an reply from my mails.
      Well that's a little bit different and I see and agree with you... Service, not product is hard to gauge before paying for it...

      Oh BTW, I had 3 refunds at scriptlance for services like this way back 2004... but in IM products, not yet...
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  • Profile picture of the author Louise Green
    I've never felt the need to request a refund from anything I've bought.

    I imagine the only time I would is if I ordered something which didn't arrive.. like a product or a service.

    In all I guess I've been pretty lucky when it comes to online purchases and hiring people, I usually get more value from something than I paid for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author AFD
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Chances are I don't personally know the folks giving the positive reviews so why should I take their word for it? As to the "Clear Product Description", it's not always as clear to the reader as it seems to the writer.

      In the big scheme of things, if your product or service isn't delivered per the sales copy and I cannot replicate it, then I'm probably going to ask for a refund, if one is offered. Conversely, if it does live up to the copy, I won't ask for a refund...simple as that.

      Refunds are simply a fact of life when it comes to business, online or off. I think you worry about them too much, LOL as this is the second thread you've started about them.
      LOL, is it obvious?. not really... yes, i got some refunds but not that much... I got a lot with the products I am promoting at CB as affiliate...
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      • Profile picture of the author NMP
        I never asked for a refund yet and I'm wondering why you ask for a refund after reading more than 20 positive reviews and clear product description....

        So you trust every sales letter online then?

        MOST reviews are no real reviews. They are pure junk sales pitches. I didn't say all. I have asked for many refunds where 99.9% is on clickbank. If you state this and that and then deliver pure junk. Well, you should be lucky with just a refund now days.

        If you buy milk, and get a bottle of water. Would you complain?
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        • Profile picture of the author Janet Sawyer
          Originally Posted by NMP View Post

          MOST reviews are no real reviews. They are pure junk sales pitches. I didn't say all. I have asked for many refunds where 99.9% is on clickbank. If you state this and that and then deliver pure junk. Well, you should be lucky with just a refund now days.
          That's just pure generalisation.

          It's common sense, if you read a sales page and see that the reviewers are the usual ones..... for example an IM product and you see the usual names, you know they haven't examined or tested or even used the product, they are just hoping to flog it.

          On the other hand, if you see people who don't usually give testimonials and they are raving about the product then they truely believe in it. Why, because they are using it and more than likely didn't get a free for it.

          Just something to make note of.

          Yes I will ask for a refund if your product does not match what you picth on the sales page.
          Yes I will ask for a refund if your product does not do what it says on the sales page.

          Just points to consider.
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by AFD View Post

        LOL, is it obvious?. not really... yes, i got some refunds but not that much... I got a lot with the products I am promoting at CB as affiliate...
        To date I have not had one refund from clickbank so it may be the category you work with has a higher refund rate or your just picking crap products to promote.
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  • Profile picture of the author charlesburke
    Yeah, I've done it. Haven't asked for many, though...

    First one ever was way back about 1999 or so. Bought Corey Rudl's autoresponder software, which everybody raved about. I spent three or four weeks trying to figure it out, but - for me at least - it was a bear, and I ended up giving up. Sure hated to do that.

    Later, I bought Frank Kern's first audio book, and was on a slow dialup line in Japan at the time, so the audios would never load. Had to ask for a refund there, too. Frank was cool about it.

    Recently I bought a piece of software to help me keep track of Clickbank sales, but it wouldn't run right on either of my computers. After three error message service requests and two private emails, I still had zero response from the author, so I had to open a ticket with Clickbank - which also brought no vendor response. Ended up turning that into a refund, too. I'd rather have had the software work, frankly.

    I dislike refund requests from customers, so mostly I just swallow the loss from a weak (or bad) product and forget it, but sometimes it's just appropriate to go get my money back.

    Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
    Charles
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  • Profile picture of the author Louise Green
    Some people will find fault with a product, no matter how good it is.. some people are just tire kickers and are never satisfied with something because, once they download it, shock horror, it requires them to take some responsibility and actually work.

    A few people really do think that by just downloading a product to their hard drive it's instantly going to solve all their problems, without taking any action for themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author olavlind
    Hmm, refunds?

    No I have never asked for refunds for products I bought. Some membership sites where the content doesn't match up to the monthly fee. And also when you join a membership site paying monthly and after two mohts there are really not much content at all.

    But never on one time purchases.

    I look at it this way:

    --- If the product is so bad it's not worth the money asked, how come I bought it in the first place?
    --- What can I learn from the experience?
    --- What could the person have done to make it worth the money asked?
    --- If I were to create a similar product, what could I do to avoid customers having the feelings I had when I bought it and make it overdeliver?
    --- Have I missed something in the product, some website link, strategy, technique, or something that can be combined with something else to produce killer results?

    And besides, after a night on the town, when you get really drunk and get a headache, and can't walk straight, bump into light poles and stuff, do you ask for a refund from the restaurant based on health and safety reasons?

    That experience is probably more expensive than most average products you buy online, and you don't blink an eye at that expense?

    Moral: There is always, always something you can learn from a product no matter how bad it is. Maybe from the pachaging, sales process used, some resource being used, some link being used etc. that will make it worth the money.

    Just my humble oppinion :-)

    ~Olav
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Gary King
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        IM'ers are the only group of people I know of who seem reluctant to ask for a refund when appropriate. Assuming you're not a serial refunder, i.e.; always trying to rip off product owners, I think it's statistically impossible that you won't ask for one sooner or later.
        Agreed with BIG Mike.

        Would like to add, refund requests are OK to make if the product isn't what was represented as others have suggested - it's like this: If you go to a restaurant and the mouth-watering, sizzling steak you ordered is cold when it is delivered, you might want to ask for a different one or a credit on your check.

        However, some IM'ers think that because they purchase and didn't get rich overnight they deserve a refund. NOT taking action/not using/not even reading the ebook, etc. are not reasons for refund requests, although they do happen. ;-)

        All success.

        Gary
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        • Profile picture of the author Hyaku_Man
          I have asked for refunds on IM products a couple of times. It's because I spent my precious time to go through the whole course and then at a critical moment it became clear that in order for the method to work properly I would be required to buy an upsell or sign up for a different service through the author's affiliate link. That's not only insulting and manipulative, but also a total waste of my time. Completely unacceptable. On a free report? Sure, I'd expect an upsell. On a product I paid for? Get real.
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          • Profile picture of the author Blase
            Yes I will ask for a refund.

            I read sales letters very carefully.

            If I buy the product I save the sales
            letter to my hard drive because over
            the last few years the sales letters are
            better than the products.

            So they are great for a swipe file, it shows
            me what pushed my buttons, and I can see
            if the product does what I was told it would do.

            If the product does not deliver what the sales letter
            said it would I ask for a refund.

            I am also willing to tell the seller why I am requesting
            a refund if they want to know.
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            • Profile picture of the author SarahMcHarry
              I buy digital IM products to review them and when I think that the material is utter **** I will ask for a refund. I've done this maybe 4 or 5 times and I've always got my money back.

              I have a checklist of criteria that I look for in reviewing a product:
              • is the product produced well, in clear English will few or no typos and spelling errors? (this is a sign that the author is a professional)
              • does the product deliver what was promised on the sales page?
              • is the product free of hype and BS?
              • does the product mislead newbies?
              • is the product's strategy reasonably do-able?
              • does the author bombard customers with upsells?
              If the product rates poorly on at least four out of these criteria I might ask for a refund because I will not review garbage.

              People shouldn't get away with scamming their customers !

              Sarah
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          • Profile picture of the author yukiyenster
            Originally Posted by Hyaku_Man View Post

            I have asked for refunds on IM products a couple of times. It's because I spent my precious time to go through the whole course and then at a critical moment it became clear that in order for the method to work properly I would be required to buy an upsell or sign up for a different service through the author's affiliate link. That's not only insulting and manipulative, but also a total waste of my time. Completely unacceptable. On a free report? Sure, I'd expect an upsell. On a product I paid for? Get real.
            I totally get where you're coming from. I HATE that. That's like going to McD's for a Big Mac and realising you have to buy the burger patties separately.

            The good that I take from these situations is that I'll NEVER buy from that Vendor again. Nevermind the fact that I'll most definitely ask for a refund, I'll put him in my sh*tlist. It's bad enough they don't deliver what they promise, I get even more pissy that it's wasted all my time. And almost everytime this happens the UPsell in the book costs at least twice as much as the book itself. (which you will now realise is useless without the upsell product)
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            • Profile picture of the author Doolder
              I've never asked for a refund, even if I felt a few times like I should have... When I first started in the affiliate marketing business I was amazed at all the money-back guarantees people were offering, I really thought a lot of suckers would get all they can from a product and then ask for a refund. Strangely (and fortunately) it doesn't happen that way. The affiliate business has been around for a while in the US and people have to always come up with better and better products and almost turn their name into a brand to find buyers, but you should see the kind of products we see in France where I'm from, it's unbelievable! The affiliate business is barely starting over here and some guys sell whatever they can put their hands on, all kinds of trash really it amazes me. The website "1tpe" is what you could call the french "Clickbank" and it's not rare to find products with refund rates of 50%+ on there...
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    • Profile picture of the author NMP
      Originally Posted by olavlind View Post

      Hmm, refunds?

      No I have never asked for refunds for products I bought. Some membership sites where the content doesn't match up to the monthly fee. And also when you join a membership site paying monthly and after two mohts there are really not much content at all.

      But never on one time purchases.

      I look at it this way:

      --- If the product is so bad it's not worth the money asked, how come I bought it in the first place?
      --- What can I learn from the experience?
      --- What could the person have done to make it worth the money asked?
      --- If I were to create a similar product, what could I do to avoid customers having the feelings I had when I bought it and make it overdeliver?
      --- Have I missed something in the product, some website link, strategy, technique, or something that can be combined with something else to produce killer results?

      And besides, after a night on the town, when you get really drunk and get a headache, and can't walk straight, bump into light poles and stuff, do you ask for a refund from the restaurant based on health and safety reasons?

      That experience is probably more expensive than most average products you buy online, and you don't blink an eye at that expense?

      Moral: There is always, always something you can learn from a product no matter how bad it is. Maybe from the pachaging, sales process used, some resource being used, some link being used etc. that will make it worth the money.

      Just my humble oppinion :-)

      ~Olav
      I guess you are the ultimate customer. I would never say "Ok I was screwed and
      lured into buy from a sales letter, my loss" Cause then I would be broke..lol

      I recently subscribed to a service that promised a profit. It was a tipster
      service. All looked good for 2 days. Then it lost lost and lost. I gave it 2
      weeks to prove it was just temporary. It lost and lost.

      So I did some research and found out that the "company" residential addy
      was a oriental fast food bar in UK. Hmm... and that he was promoting 8
      other sites.

      I could say.. oh well stupid me.. let's feed a few hundred more liars with
      cash. Or I could ask for a refund. You have to guess the answer
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  • Profile picture of the author yukiyenster
    I rarely ask for refunds... However, if the product over promises and severely under-delivers I will ask for one. If I feel like you've cheated me, be prepared to give me back my monehzzz!!!

    The e-book/info-product market is spillin' with so much recycled and rehashed crap nowadays. If the product doesn't deliver. Refund. If it delivers, give it a good honest review. If it over-delivers, give it a good honest review.
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  • Profile picture of the author AFD
    There are actually a lot of crap and useless products in clickbank. I think its because these products are just imagination by authors and not tested, or don't have proper and transparent reviews.
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  • Profile picture of the author AFD
    Originally Posted by Nathan Segal View Post

    I feel like you're trying to turn this into a right/wrong situation, which I disagree with. There are many reasons to ask for a refund. I've done it and people have asked me for refunds, which I've given to them.

    Just because 20 people post positive reviews doesn't mean that everyone will like your product.

    Personally, I think you're too hung up on this subject. Refunds are a part of doing business. That's it.
    No right or wrong answer to my question. I just wanted to gather views on why people ask refunds.. this could also help me with my future products... Yes, refunds are inevitable but there is always a solution to at least lessen the occurrence..
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  • Profile picture of the author Magpieguy
    Yes....once before. I got a little obsessed with business opportunities a couple of years ago and asked for a refund....£199 from memory. Got credited back to my card straight away. Most genuine businesses won't risk their reputation.
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  • Profile picture of the author redflea13
    I've never asked for a refund though there's been a time or two I thought about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    I've given a few but only asked for 1 in the last 10 years. Based on this thread - maybe I should have asked for more :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author businessmatt
    I've asked for a refund on a crap product before. If the sales letter promises the world, and the product doesn't deliver, why should I take the hit? Give me a good product, and you won't be asked for a refund. Unlike a physical product, I can't really look at an info product and see if it's any good, it's just part of the game.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    A lot of products get misrepresented in sales copy. It's
    prevalent on the WSO forum here.

    When you take your lumps and accept a crappy product
    that doesn't deliver, do you wish to encourage that sort
    of behavior in other marketers?

    I bought an ebook recently that was misrepresented
    by well-written english-language copy. The actual
    product was thrown-together, flippant, and pretty
    much just stuffed with affiliate links. A good giveaway
    perhaps. It was also written in atrocious English,
    translated from Italian by Google. The seller cared
    enough to hire an English copywriter, but not enough
    to have his product proof-read. The letter also
    misrepresented the barriers-to-entry into the business
    model - representing them as low, when in fact
    you'd have to be a enthusiast for the niche to consider
    entering it anything but a lot of tedious research
    and work.

    When you buy a book and it's crap, do you send it
    back? I have. Not often, but I've done it. Anytime
    I cannot try or look at a product in a store, I'm aware
    I may have to return it.
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  • Profile picture of the author milo_pl
    Some people just don't even ask for refunds, they just file "Unauthorized Transaction" claim in Paypal, no matter the quality of the product. In places like Digital P***t it seems to be common practice...
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonHicks
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    • Profile picture of the author AFD
      Originally Posted by JasonHicks View Post

      I don't buy anything. Most products all you have to do is go to google and do site: productwebsite.com and the pdfs or download page will be indexed.

      You would be surprised how many "Gurus" forget to put no-follow on there download page : )
      I agree, but I think it's stealing!? HUH!

      Originally Posted by milo_pl View Post

      Some people just don't even ask for refunds, they just file "Unauthorized Transaction" claim in Paypal, no matter the quality of the product. In places like Digital P***t it seems to be common practice...
      That is why it's not a good idea to put your product there IMO.. people are looking for all means to get your product for free.
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  • Profile picture of the author CesarGalano
    Originally Posted by AFD View Post

    I never asked for a refund yet and I'm wondering why you ask for a refund after reading more than 20 positive reviews and clear product description....

    I know there are always suckers but let me hear valid points why you are asking for a refund....

    BTW... suckers don't ask refunds.. they just file pp disputes..

    afd
    I never asked for a refund neither but I guess we'll always have to deal with cronic refunders.They buy your product and after 5 minutes the ask for a refund.Some of them just buy,ask for a refund and then they upload files to mediafire for some BlueFartforum freebie seekers.Sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattrix329
    The thing with the IM market is that there is a lot of junk out there. Loren makes an excellent point... some of the products out there are really just thrown together.

    But to the OP, having purchased both your WSOs I can't imagine why someone would ask for a refund on your products. Thieves imo... but i guess there is a thin line between thieves and unhappy customers.

    That's raises a tough issue though. Personally, I'm hesitant to purchase anything that doesn't have a money back guarantee. But as a seller, a money back guarantee is something i don't want to give but have to in order to bring in more sales. Dilemma.

    I guess it ultimately boils down to a moral issue. Do you think offering a "Conditional money back guarantee" is a good alternative? As in, "100% money back guarantee if you can prove that you used my technique/product etc. and it DIDN'T work for you"?
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    • Profile picture of the author AFD
      Originally Posted by mattrix329 View Post

      The thing with the IM market is that there is a lot of junk out there. Loren makes an excellent point... some of the products out there are really just thrown together.

      But to the OP, having purchased both your WSOs I can't imagine why someone would ask for a refund on your products. Thieves imo... but i guess there is a thin line between thieves and unhappy customers.

      That's raises a tough issue though. Personally, I'm hesitant to purchase anything that doesn't have a money back guarantee. But as a seller, a money back guarantee is something i don't want to give but have to in order to bring in more sales. Dilemma.

      I guess it ultimately boils down to a moral issue. Do you think offering a "Conditional money back guarantee" is a good alternative? As in, "100% money back guarantee if you can prove that you used my technique/product etc. and it DIDN'T work for you"?
      I think conditional money back guarantee is a good option. But let's put ourselves in customer's shoes.. what if we already know that the system won't work. Do we need to do it just to get back our money? LOL.. I think that's the downfall of this system.. Though we provide good products, we cannot please everyone...

      I always honor refunds with valid explanation, and even ask the buyer some suggestion on how to improve my product... I am a customer service guy BTW... But filing a dispute and just saying "incorrect product" without any explanation is always a bad nightmare...

      It even came to a point where I told the sucker "Your money is not on my acocunt anymore because you filed dispute without informing me first. You money is being held by paypal and not by me, Ask paypal and not me"
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          Personally (and I'm not a lawyer), I've often wondered just how well a "Conditional" money back guarantee would hold up in court...when the conditions are not tangible, i.e.; a valid receipt, within so many days, returned in original packaging, etc.

          I'm not so sure that asking a customer to "Proof they implemented it" is legal.

          Just saying...
          Generally speaking, refund policies are a matter of contract. Is the refund period forever? 60 days? 30 days? 3 days? Those are contractual issues.

          Those are "conditions."

          What is required for a refund? Does a physical product have to be returned? Who pays for the return? What if it has been used or is in a non-new condition? Does it need original packaging? Is there a restocking fee? All contractual issues.

          Again, all "conditions."

          The same applies for digital products. Even if it is not a 'tangible' requirement that does not mean contract law suddenly does not apply. It only means it is a different kind of contractual requirement. A different condition.

          So long as the contractual condition itself does not violate a law (eg., your first born child), it is probably enforceable.

          .
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          • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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            • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
              Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

              Let me rephrase my comment a bit - the sales page states, "100% 60-Day Money Back Garantee", nothing else. The seller subsequently places a condition on it per the OP as "I always honor refunds with valid explanation"...it was not a condition of the contract, was it?

              Thoughts Brian?
              Correct, it was not a condition of the contract.

              The seller cannot impose that requirement. A refund must be provided if there is no explanation, a bad explanation, or even a false explanation.

              It is no different than the seller asking for more money to actually deliver the product after it has been paid for. If it wasn't part of the bargain at the time the transaction was made, then it is too late after the fact.

              The seller should give the refund, then revise their sales page / terms of purchase so it reflects what policy the seller wants to have.

              .
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  • Profile picture of the author techinik
    I never asked for refund. No matter how crappy product is I always get something out of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author AminMotin
    The only times I've asked for a refund is when the product/software failed to deliver as promised.

    And each time I've been disappointed to have to get a refund. I would always have preferred the product as it was sold to me on the excellently written sales page. If only they'd used the same quality control on the product itself.

    Amin
    p.s. Big Mike, got your email - thanks. I'll deal with that this evening.
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  • Profile picture of the author BSco
    I've never had to ask for a refund for anything to do with marketing and the internet. I always check for reviews and such before giving them my hard earned cash
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    i think i might have asked a couple of times, and i felt bad since this were very low priced WSOs, like $7.

    But the reason i did it was that the products didnt provide value for me personally, and i simply dont want to be one of those people who buy many WSOs simply to let them pile up on the hard drive - or spend money on products which i simply cant use. It was not about the $7, but rather out of principle.
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  • Profile picture of the author jedz
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    Yeah. im asking for a refund as well but most of the time i'm asking for a change of item specially when I badly need the product.
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