QUESTION TO THE GURUS: Why do you promote a new product every month?

133 replies
Hello Warriors,

Sure this thread is open to all of you to respond with your thoughts. The title was just to get the attention of everybody, and especially the Internet Marketers who bombard (no pun intended :p) us with the brand new shiny product/software/package every other week or month.

If your previous system was so good and it made people a lot of money, then why not continue to promote the same one? Why do you promote another offer, whether yours or from an affiliate?

I understand that there are people ready to buy the NEW version, but is that the only reason?

I'm also sure this question might have come up here many a time earlier, but I don't think there's been a convincing response to it from the big guys, as yet.

So, please... share your thoughts here and help me decrypt why I might want to do the same (if convinced about it) in the future, if I enter the IM market at all.

Thanks in advance
#gurus #month #product #promote #question
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    You know the answer to this - To make more money.

    The biggest income is from the initial launch, so why keep trying to squeeze the long tail out of your market when you can sell a new product to all the same people again.

    It's much easier to sell to an existing customer than find a new one.

    Despite that I've still only launched an average of 1 product a year for the last 10 years.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Ranger
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      You know the answer to this - To make more money.

      The biggest income is from the initial launch, so why keep trying to squeeze the long tail out of your market when you can sell a new product to all the same people again.

      It's much easier to sell to an existing customer than find a new one.

      Despite that I've still only launched an average of 1 product a year for the last 10 years.
      Andy has it spot on. People enjoy all the hype. Lots of people think
      the latest new product is going to be 'the answer'.

      And if you've ever experienced $10k worth of sales in 1 minute... I'm
      pretty sure you'd strive to want to do it again.... and this is why
      the 'gurus' (I hate this word!) will continue to release stuff!

      All about the money!
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      • Profile picture of the author rahuljain
        Products provides the sales that is way companies promote product every month.
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    • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      You know the answer to this - To make more money.
      You're totally right.

      And another reason is because every 2 seconds there's a new launch
      announced promoting the latest hottest copy paste money making system.

      So, there are thousands of products one can promote, which means there
      are thousands of opportunities and thousands of dollars to be made.

      Igor
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Let's say I have a list of 100 people to make this explanation easy. I promote product A and 20 people buy it. Now, if I promote it in my next mailing, only 80 people maximum might be interested because 20 already bought it. Chances are most of them won't be interested though, because they already passed on it once. But, let's say 10 more buy. Now there's only 70 left, and 10 of them unsubscribed because the second email is much like the first one. Some conclude I'm pushy for promoting it again, some think I'm desperate, others just don't have any patience for reruns.

    Now I only have 60 people that might buy, and these 60 people have passed on product A twice. Do you see how this is a losing spiral for the list owner?
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    • Profile picture of the author garyfromdurham
      In addition to the other replies look at offline models:

      For example Proctor and Gamble make numerous Washing powders, toothpastes and cleaning products.

      All of their products work, so in theory they should only have one Washing powder, one toothpaste, one kitchen sink cleaner etc.

      But they don't.....they have a whole range of powers etc

      People who faithfully use one of their products will try another one of their products because it might have a different smell, claim to get their teeth even brighter or even because the packaging has changed.

      That is marketing at its best.

      Gary
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      • Profile picture of the author highbrid
        Great example Gary, i cant wait to see shaving razors in 10 years time, they'll probably have 10 blades and a built in radio

        wait... a built in radio!!!??

        genius...

        :p
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        • Profile picture of the author brandon_holcomb
          I and my face hate the 5 blade razors. 3 or less for me folks
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      • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
        Originally Posted by garyfromdurham View Post

        In addition to the other replies look at offline models:

        For example Proctor and Gamble make numerous Washing powders, toothpastes and cleaning products.

        All of their products work, so in theory they should only have one Washing powder, one toothpaste, one kitchen sink cleaner etc.

        But they don't.....they have a whole range of powers etc

        People who faithfully use one of their products will try another one of their products because it might have a different smell, claim to get their teeth even brighter or even because the packaging has changed.

        That is marketing at its best.

        Gary
        Thanks for the example, Gary

        And I, being a student of Marketing, agree with that example. It even makes sense in the offline world... You add an additional feature and up the price by a few cents, people get a new variant/flavour, they buy it and feel good. Nothing wrong with that, and it's all great for both the seller and the buyers.

        But somehow, in the IM world, it's starting to make me sick (maybe I'll start making myself sick in the future, who knows! :p). I mean... consider an example:
        'Guru X' promotes his affiliate marketing product telling me I can make up to $1M a year. Right the next month, he comes up with a website flipping product that says I can make an additional $10K a month.

        Now, you might want to say that they are two different products teaching 2 different things... Great and it's remotely starting to make sense until the phobia strikes me again :p

        But, two weeks after the latest launch, 'Guru X' is promoting an affiliate marketing product that can put $143K a year in my pocket, if I learn it from his friend. So, what does it say about 'Guru X'? His product ain't good enough to make me a million although I paid a couple grand to buy it, and now he says buy something for another grand and make 14% of what I claimed to teach you?!

        As if that isn't enough, it continues to go on and on and on... Doesn't that raise your eyebrows? If yes, what do you think is the reasoning behind 'Guru X' playing the same dumb (and I really find it dumb at the moment) game?

        P.S.: Yes, they want to make money, but is that it? Don't they feel the need to follow-up and put up a survey for their list asking them where most of them who bought his $1M Affiliate Marketing product are stuck with, and then offer to provide them support through a webinar by answering pertinent questions without running a pitch-fest?

        P.P.S.: I would really appreciate the Gurus to come out in the open and answer this here. So, I request you to PLEASE write to your Guru friend via PM/e-mail/Skype/SMS and share the link to this thread with him, and ask him to help us solve this puzzle; 'coz if they're not coming out, anyone following this thread will become a skeptic again... and the Gurus sure don't want to lose on some sales here now, do they?! So, GURUS (and every big name/medium name/IM-related product marketer), come and build some trust for yourself and win fans/friends/customers/JV affiliates for life.

        Disclaimer: All references to Guru X were unintentionally made to the male gender. It could as well apply to the female gender. Please pardon my ignorance of not writing 'his/her' instead.
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      • Profile picture of the author JimmyS
        Originally Posted by garyfromdurham View Post

        In addition to the other replies look at offline models:

        For example Proctor and Gamble make numerous Washing powders, toothpastes and cleaning products.

        All of their products work, so in theory they should only have one Washing powder, one toothpaste, one kitchen sink cleaner etc.

        But they don't.....they have a whole range of powers etc

        People who faithfully use one of their products will try another one of their products because it might have a different smell, claim to get their teeth even brighter or even because the packaging has changed.

        That is marketing at its best.

        Gary
        Good point and point well taken......
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    • Profile picture of the author Matthew Duggan
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Let's say I have a list of 100 people to make this explanation easy. I promote product A and 20 people buy it. Now, if I promote it in my next mailing, only 80 people maximum might be interested because 20 already bought it. Chances are most of them won't be interested though, because they already passed on it once. But, let's say 10 more buy. Now there's only 70 left, and 10 of them unsubscribed because the second email is much like the first one. Some conclude I'm pushy for promoting it again, some think I'm desperate, others just don't have any patience for reruns.

      Now I only have 60 people that might buy, and these 60 people have passed on product A twice. Do you see how this is a losing spiral for the list owner?
      Very good explanation Dennis.

      I also think that it's about having multiple streams of income. If a product sells out or a membership program fills up, what's left?
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  • Profile picture of the author lgirardgk
    hmmm personally i like promoting one product and building up a base of people
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  • Profile picture of the author JTor
    And another question: are those people who need to promote a new product every month really gurus, or just claim to be?

    Reall gurus would need to use this kind of "cheap" resource?
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    • Profile picture of the author garyfromdurham
      I'm intrigued by some of the responses here.

      Most 'Gurus' create raving fans' (Frank Kern, Ed Dale, Eban Pagan John Reese etc. etc) in the same way that brands like Apple create their fans.

      People anticipate the new products months in advance and can't wait to buy the new product.

      Nobody is forcing them to buy. They want to!

      Granted, their are some serial buyers who buy but don't use the products. However, it would be safe to say that most people who previously bought from them are happy with the products and felt that it was good enough value for money to re-invest their money in another purchase.

      Implying that their tactics are 'cheap' is a cop out. If you create a product that people rave about and can't wait to buy again then they are obviously doing something right.

      There is nothing immoral about what they are doing as their happy and satisfied customers can testify.

      My advice would be to watch, learn and apply what they do. Let your customers decide if they want to buy from you or not.

      Gary
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      • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
        Originally Posted by garyfromdurham View Post

        Most 'Gurus' create raving fans' (Frank Kern, Ed Dale, Eban Pagan John Reese etc. etc) in the same way that brands like Apple create their fans.
        I guess the term 'most gurus' is relative because when I think most gurus I think raving spam (not raving fan).

        Yes, there a few who build their brand, but keep in mind the rabid fans are usually the 2nd tier gurus who are more interested in the massive commissions they'll generate by pimping the 1st tier guru products to the masses.

        Also, most 'gurus' in my experience are pimping products weekly, some even daily. A small percentage seem to pimp monthly (or a longer time span).

        Many have payrolls to meet, so they'll promote anything and everything that generates cash flow. Truly helping their list is a distant second. Those who unsubscribe once they clue in are just replaced by doe eyed newbies. :rolleyes:
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        Internet marketing is not rocket science ... unsubscribe from every guru spam list you're currently on ... they just want to rape your wallet and make you co-dependent.

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          (Note to self: BEHAVE)

          Okay, there are several reasons for this.

          1. The industry changes. What may have worked yesterday may not work
          so well today, especially if it was a tactic that, because of saturation or
          sites clamping down with additions to their TOS, has lost its juice. So now
          we have to come up with something to take its place. Nothing in this
          business is static.

          Case in point. I bought a book 7 years ago that was fantastic. It was
          the reason I had any success at all. Today, that book would be considered
          close to worthless. Much of the PPC stuff in it doesn't work at all anymore
          with all the changes Google has made over the years.

          2. Your list changes. Some lists have big turnovers. When new people
          come onto it, they don't want to buy something that is months or years
          old. They want the latest, greatest thing. This is human nature and the
          "gurus" (God I hate that word) are simply giving people what they want,
          whether you want to believe that or not.

          3. As somebody already pointed out. Old products simply don't have as
          many new buyers because once you've purchased it, there is no need to
          purchase it again. So what are these people supposed to do, just not
          make anymore money?

          No offense, but I get a taste of you taking offense to marketers doing
          this, like it's something sleazy, unethical, taking advantage of people
          or whatever.

          NOBODY IS FORCING THE PERSON ON THE OTHER END TO BUY THE DAMN
          PRODUCT!!!

          If you don't like the practice, don't buy from the person.

          It's that simple.

          Sorry, but these threads are increasingly annoying the hell out of me.

          It's like God forbid you are a marketer and trying to make money. You
          should be boiled in oil and condemned to an eternity in hell.

          As long as the info in the product is sound, helps people, and isn't illegal
          to use, I see no problem with Guru X coming out with a shiny new product
          every day if he wants.

          It is still up to ME whether or not I buy it...NOT him.

          End of rant.
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          • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


            It's like God forbid you are a marketer and trying to make money. You
            should be boiled in oil and condemned to an eternity in hell.
            Indeed: frustrated at this much by the way ? :-)

            It is truly amazing the number of marketers who hate to be
            marketed to on the forum.

            I didn't even bother getting involved in the thread whereby
            a certain marketer was lambasted for having the gaul to add
            people who purchased his product to his list.

            It's all really very strange at times around here.
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            • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
              Originally Posted by SimonHarrison View Post

              Indeed: frustrated at this much by the way ? :-)

              It is truly amazing the number of marketers who hate to be
              marketed to on the forum.
              Personally, I have no problem being marketed to, it's the intent that makes all the difference. And yes, watching newbies get screwed over constantly for a buck does quite frankly frustrate me. I do realize that to some newbs are just suckers to squeeze every last cent from. But many are single parents, people who have lost their job, etc.

              Most (but not all) people get up in arms when a senior citizen is bilked by telemarketing fraud. But screw a newb out of their last dime and hope with some IM piece of crap? Ooooh ... better raise a toast to that marketing genius.

              Guru spam never helps anybody except the guru and the merchant. It's easy to spot. A totally unrelated promo of the launch of the day, not targeted to my actual needs, would take me off focus to what I'm actually doing if I did buy it, but provides a great commission for the spam pimp and is also accompanied by an absurdly overvalued "bonus" for good measure. I buy through their links as often as I buy through Viagra spam links (i.e. never).

              However, there are other marketers (a sadly miniscule minority) who provide genuinely valuable content to their subscribers. I'm on a couple of lists that are so in tune to what I'm doing in my business model and what I actually need, I'll read every email they send and will buy through their links (if it fits my current needs). Since they only send me highly targeted, relevant and genuinely useful recommendations their conversion rates (with me) are very high.

              Not sure why this seems to be such a mystery to marketers, Google even does it with quality scores on landing pages.
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              Internet marketing is not rocket science ... unsubscribe from every guru spam list you're currently on ... they just want to rape your wallet and make you co-dependent.

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              • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
                Originally Posted by CanuckWarrior View Post

                Personally, I have no problem being marketed to, it's the intent that makes all the difference. And yes, watching newbies get screwed over constantly for a buck does quite frankly frustrate me. I do realize that to some newbs are just suckers to squeeze every last cent from. But many are single parents, people who have lost their job, etc.

                Most (but not all) people get up in arms when a senior citizen is bilked by telemarketing fraud. But screw a newb out of their last dime and hope with some IM piece of crap? Ooooh ... better raise a toast to that marketing genius.

                Guru spam never helps anybody except the guru and the merchant. It's easy to spot. A totally unrelated promo of the launch of the day, not targeted to my actual needs, would take me off focus to what I'm actually doing if I did buy it, but provides a great commission for the spam pimp and is also accompanied by an absurdly overvalued "bonus" for good measure. I buy through their links as often as I buy through Viagra spam links (i.e. never).

                However, there are other marketers (a sadly miniscule minority) who provide genuinely valuable content to their subscribers. I'm on a couple of lists that are so in tune to what I'm doing in my business model and what I actually need, I'll read every email they send and will buy through their links (if it fits my current needs). Since they only send me highly targeted, relevant and genuinely useful recommendations their conversion rates (with me) are very high.

                Not sure why this seems to be such a mystery to marketers, Google even does it with quality scores on landing pages.
                It's not spam if you opt-in to their list.

                Plus, it's not possible to provide content that is relevant to every single subscriber on your list. Therefore, it's not possible to please everybody on your list. If you don't like it, unsubscribe - don't whine or cry about it.

                I just knew that this thread would take an anti-guru spin....le sigh.
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      • Profile picture of the author efnwayne
        Originally Posted by garyfromdurham View Post

        I'm intrigued by some of the responses here.

        Most 'Gurus' create raving fans' (Frank Kern, Ed Dale, Eban Pagan John Reese etc. etc) in the same way that brands like Apple create their fans.

        People anticipate the new products months in advance and can't wait to buy the new product.

        Nobody is forcing them to buy. They want to!

        Granted, their are some serial buyers who buy but don't use the products. However, it would be safe to say that most people who previously bought from them are happy with the products and felt that it was good enough value for money to re-invest their money in another purchase.

        Implying that their tactics are 'cheap' is a cop out. If you create a product that people rave about and can't wait to buy again then they are obviously doing something right.

        There is nothing immoral about what they are doing as their happy and satisfied customers can testify.

        My advice would be to watch, learn and apply what they do. Let your customers decide if they want to buy from you or not.

        Gary

        - I agree with this and other posts with this perspective.

        If by "Gurus" your refering to successfull, experienced marketers then most of their marketing tactics have been learned by studying, trial and error and testing to get to where they are.

        You don't have to buy from them and if it bothers you to follow their email campains you can always opt out of their list... or you could study them and take advantage of their skills in your own campains whether you buy from them or not.

        I personally tend to start off with the questions you started with like "Why do they do that?" then follow up with others like:
        • How do they keep building their lists and followers?
        • How do they keep the respect of so many while growing their lists?
        • What makes people consider them a guru anyway?
        • What actions can I take to get the kind of success that they have?
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      • Profile picture of the author CLIFFMN
        Ya know Gary, you're missing one thing in the mix. I just attended a 'webinar' that was hyped to me for week. It made major promises and claims that someone WILL be teaching, IN THE WEBINAR, their exact steps to ... etc etc etc. Not ONE SINGLE mention in all the emails about ANYTHING for sale.

        Simply, it consisted of one half an hour of Twitter Tips, and then the complete rest of it was an amazing HARD HARD sell of this guys course FOR ONLY, AND A LIMITED # OF PEOPLE ONLY, for only $490 something bucks...

        Now I'm not saying there's not quality in the course, of course I wouldn't know since I clicked off it, but the blatant misleading and lies of the emails to get people there is what the problem is.... This was one of the hardest sells I've ever seen - this guy spoke so fast and mumbled his way through the paragraphs, it was just annoying. (at least to me ) I'm sure some of the suckers/attendees bought into it... anyway...

        And this was sponsored by whom I thought was one the most reputable guys/guru's in the Warrior Forum... man, am I disappointed....
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by CLIFFMN View Post

          Ya know Gary, you're missing one thing in the mix. I just attended a 'webinar' that was hyped to me for week. It made major promises and claims that someone WILL be teaching, IN THE WEBINAR, their exact steps to ... etc etc etc. Not ONE SINGLE mention in all the emails about ANYTHING for sale.

          Simply, it consisted of one half an hour of Twitter Tips, and then the complete rest of it was an amazing HARD HARD sell of this guys course FOR ONLY, AND A LIMITED # OF PEOPLE ONLY, for only $490 something bucks...

          ..
          So he did deliver on his promise and teach...

          Just the pitch spoilt it for you

          I disagree with the replys you got from exrat, there wasnt any real deception here. they promised some teaching and delivered on it, they then used up they rest of the time to sell you the upgrade to the free portion of the webinar

          There isnt anything evil here...

          Just your expectation was to high

          Free is a marketing technique to direct you down the path to buying something, its pretty simple really and goes back to what jason said

          When ever someone says "I hate when marketers______", it just show's that they still think of marketers as "them", instead of "us"..

          pschologicaly, they're still placing themselves on the outside looking in, still identifying themselves as buyers instead of sellers.

          The idea of using free content whether its an ebook or a webinar is to give you just enough information so you want to buy more.

          Here is what i delivered free...just think how much more is in the product were selling.

          They either convinced you the product could be useful so you purchased...or they didnt, and you didnt buy

          I dont see whats difficult to understand here
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    • Profile picture of the author debcoffeen
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      • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        You don't have an answer to this question because you don't want one. If you were trying to answer it at all, you wouldn't need to ask, because it's pretty flippin' obvious what the answer to that question is. You're just trying to stir up trouble and start an argument.

        Have fun with that.
        Haha... this one cracked me up. Finally, you managed to do that. Congratulations on that! What you see as an arguement is a question worth debating about, or at least so I think.

        Originally Posted by ThePassiveIncomeBlog View Post

        This is me teaching you all what the gurus teach in EVERY course...

        1. You need to research your market.
        a. keyword research using this.
        b. there are tools/resources that can help, and greatly improve your research. SEO Elite, SEO Spyglass, SEOMOZ, Clickbank are just a few.
        c. find something that a lot of people look for, but with little competition. make sure it's monetarily viable by checking for ppc ads.
        d. make sure the searchers are looking for a solution to a 'need it now' problem, they're easier to sell to.

        2. Find or create a product to market to the searchers.
        a. Find an affiliate product to sell, or create your own. You can use Elance to hire someone for $500 to create a product for you to your specifications. Just make sure they know what they're talking about.
        b. Make sure your product is a solution, not an answer. It needs to truly SOLVE a problem. If it's just an answer or a suggestion, it's worthless. People need, and are searching for you to solve their problems. Call it laziness, helplessness, or whatever - point is, they'll buy from you.

        3. You need a website, whether your own, or a web 2.0 it depends on your needs.

        a. your own site you control, and can do what you want - but it costs money. pick a brand name, or your own name if you're not going to be shady. Gain corporate image. keyword urls can come later with subdomains, and individual pages.
        b. web 2.0 can be deleted at any time, but is free.
        (web 2.0 does NOT allow affiliate marketing)

        4. Get your Copywriting (ad copy) down
        a. sense of urgency, dire call to action, create an emotional trigger response. pretty pictures, pretty formatting. make it sound like you can't live without it. watch 'pitchmen'. It's cheesy, but they make millions.. I'm less concerned with cheeziness when directly marketing, and more concerned with selling something that works for lots of money.
        b. you can also hire a copywriter. don't be a cheap ******* though. $50 copy will make you one $10 sale for every $1000 you put out in advertising. $1000 copy will make you $1000 for every $10 you put out in advertising. Elance or WarriorForum. Look for references.


        5. Test with PPC
        a. Pay Per Click can be expensive, but the whole point is to narrow it down to low competitive keywords that convert to sales.
        b. Once you've honed in what works, go for the lowest competition highest converting term and target via SEO.
        c. Split test to raise your conversions. Once you have a decent opt-in, leads to sales conversion. Stick with it, and test new features... Leave what works, change what doesn't. Make millions. Send me a check.


        6. SEO the sh*t out of your site
        a. Pick your term that works, build a subdomain using the keyword that worked the best (picked out from the PPC testing)
        b. Get your onpage optimization gangsta.
        c. Start building backlinks (I recommend SENuke - but for the LOVE OF GOD watch the videos before you start...)


        7. Supplement Your Marketing
        a. Joint Ventures (found here on warrior forum)
        b. Twitter, Facebook etc. (don't spam, but be cool, and find people who need what you want - *aka: more research*)

        c. sell your sh*t on clickbank and other affiliate networks.

        8. Send me checks for making you rich.
        I'm Shane Hunter. You can find me at www.shanehunter.org

        That truly is ALL anyone EVER teaches. There, now you don't have to buy anything, ever again. =)

        oh. and you're welcome. this info has cost me thousands over the years... i challenge anyone to deny this process as working model. yup, there's other ways. yup, you may even have a better way. but this way works 50% of the time 100% of the time
        Shane, thanks a lot. Although your post went fairly off-topic, it was a great tutorial for everyone wanting to get started or just optimise the way they conduct their business online.

        I've started work on your blueprint above, so hold on for a few days. Your cheque should be on its way soon.

        Originally Posted by jdenc View Post

        I think there are things going unconsidered here.

        Now as a member of the War Room you get some looks at free offers with no opt in. However I always opt in if given the chance as the guy has given me something and I am willing to give him one of my email addresses. Seems fair. So I get the download key and do my thing. Some of that stuff is awesome by the way. Anyway some of those guys start killing me instantly with all these offers I can't live with out. Of course if I were truly new to marketing and had just bought that WSO I'd be a bit skeptical and confused. Why did I buy that if this is better? If it isn't better why have you sent it to me before I can digest and comprehend the last system? The average newb looking for a road map doesn't think about McD's or Wal-Mart he just thinks what have I gotten myself into and what now?

        And some of these guys handle it really well. They follow up with helpful hints and tips related to what you downloaded. Not the next big thing and the next and the next. Guess who has a better shot at getting me to get something else from them? There is a right way and a wrong way to market IMO. I think a lot of folks have learned the wrong way. Not everyone is a fish on the hook with their credit card at the ready. And those that are fuel the 97% fail rate. These marketers help make sure it stays that high. Value added gets my attention every time and I have found in my own sales life it works better that way as well. Add some value first then come looking for your next check.
        Thanks jdenc... You considered my point just right.

        If your post doesn't help the purpose of this thread, it'll be probably because of people who don't like such questions or have only one arguement point... that of big offline business brands. And, that's far from what IM is about. In fact, you've put across your post in such a way it puts across my question in much a clearer way while also answers my question to a fair extent. Thanks again...

        Originally Posted by debcoffeen View Post

        When I see a guru promoting a new product every month and even sometimes every week, it makes me suspicious more than anything. I know they need money (don't we all), but I always ask myself, "which one do they truly believe in?" Ummm!
        debcoffeen, that was exactly my point when I mentioned examples in my earlier posts. At least I know I'm not alone with such questions at the Warrior Forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by debcoffeen View Post

        When I see a guru promoting a new product every month and even sometimes every week, it makes me suspicious more than anything. I know they need money (don't we all), but I always ask myself, "which one do they truly believe in?" Ummm!
        Ok this is total bull****...

        No one product is a perfect fit for everyone on any list never mind a large list like mine or those your taking a poke at.

        Instead of negative, take a digg remmarks at succesful people for promoting multiple products, and questioning their integrity...

        Look on it as them feeling so confident the people on their list are clever enough to work out which one best suits them, they decided to give them the choice.

        Its extreme lunacy to think that a group of 1000, 5000,10,000 or 100,000 plus people all have the same need at the same time, and just as lunatic to believe that promoting multiple products is a sign they dont really believe in any of them.

        there are 1000's of different ways to skin this cat and any one of them could be the product that someone somewhere on those lists need.

        Back to work people nothing to see here
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        • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          Look on it as them feeling so confident the people on their list are clever enough to work out which one best suits them, they decided to give them the choice.
          LMAO... What was that all about now?

          It's so oxymoronic/contradictory/paradoxical it's funny. [That's right, at this moment I'm incapable of assigning it a particular term - hence, three there.]
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    I don't know... why is Wal Mart open every day?

    Tsnyder
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    • Profile picture of the author Amy Carczak
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I don't know... why is Wal Mart open every day?

      Tsnyder
      Wal Mart is open every day but they sell the
      same basic products ...

      Selling the latest fad works, I think we all
      agree.

      But

      If you were buying a car, would you guess the
      quality would be better from a company that
      launches a new model every month, sells 10,000
      and then moves on to a new model ...

      ...or would the company that produces the same
      basic car for 4 years straight maybe learn a
      little, improve a little each year and put out
      a better car in year 4 than they launched in
      week 1?

      Just a thought about launches ... and maybe
      why there are often "problems" with these
      products from major volume launches.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by Amy Carczak View Post

        Wal Mart is open every day but they sell the
        same basic products ...

        Selling the latest fad works, I think we all
        agree.

        But

        If you were buying a car, would you guess the
        quality would be better from a company that
        launches a new model every month, sells 10,000
        and then moves on to a new model ...

        ...or would the company that produces the same
        basic car for 4 years straight maybe learn a
        little, improve a little each year and put out
        a better car in year 4 than they launched in
        week 1?

        Just a thought about launches ... and maybe
        why there are often "problems" with these
        products from major volume launches.
        Actually... Wal Mart sells tens of thousand of different
        products. I can go there every day for the rest of my
        life and never buy the same product twice.

        The point is that so-called "gurus' (silly word) promote
        different products on a regular basis because real business
        runs on cash flow.

        Another important point that most internet marketers seem
        to not understand is that, even though you mail to the same
        list, it's a different market nearly every time. Not everyone
        is in the market for any particular product at the same time.

        20% of the list may be in the market for an SEO product
        this week while another 20% may be interested in creating
        video products... or learning copy writing skills... or PPC... or...
        or... or...

        Tsnyder
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        • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          Actually... Wal Mart sells tens of thousand of different
          products. I can go there every day for the rest of my
          life and never buy the same product twice.

          The point is that so-called "gurus' (silly word) promote
          different products on a regular basis because real business
          runs on cash flow.

          Another important point that most internet marketers seem
          to not understand is that, even though you mail to the same
          list, it's a different market nearly every time. Not everyone
          is in the market for any particular product at the same time.

          20% of the list may be in the market for an SEO product
          this week while another 20% may be interested in creating
          video products... or learning copy writing skills... or PPC... or...
          or... or...

          Tsnyder
          This helps explain it a bit further. In this case, would you suggest segmenting your mailing list for improved targetting? There might be disadvantages to doing it, but it also holds the potential to convert well. Any thoughts?

          As for the Big Mac, I've answered that above and here it is, quoted below:
          Big Mac, Coke, Wal-Mart, book stores, automotive companies, cigar stores/companies, golfing equipment & accessories merchants... like I said, although they might do business online, they're different from how the IM-niches work. They sell you a different product, which serves a different purpose. It's true you might be sold a golf club today, and right the next week the company comes up with a better one promising a better swing (don't know much about golf, so I could be wrong with the applicability of terms used here). They come up with different features and sell you products from their industry. Even cross-selling starts a very soft level, with the help of freebies. In the IM-market, everyone is teaching you a hundred ways to make money online. And most come with claims like "Hey, I marked a million with Twitter", "My friend J Blow did 20K last week with a sneaky SEO trick. I tried it and made a cool 10K with just 1 hour of set up", "Today, I'll teach you how to get 100 leads in 48 hours using only FREE methods. And the same person comes back 2 weeks later and says, "I've been killing it with PPC like nobody else. I've done it consistently for years and have an arsenal of tricks up my sleeve. They'll help you out too - Here, hit the BUY button and get access to it". As if that kind of absurdity (and I seem to think it is so, at least for now) wasn't enough, if you just go back a few days in your inbox and read a mail from the same marketer, he's claiming to teach all he knows and all he does. Well then, where did PPC come out all of a sudden from the years' worth of experience?
          Like this wasn't enough, a single marketer selling you a product like 'MAKE MONEY WITH AFFILIATE MARKETING WITHOUT YOUR WEBSITE OR ANY WRITING' is offering you a hundred bonuses each (often) valued at more than the product being sold itself... At that, the bonuses tell you how to create your product in 48 hours, how to find JVs, how to use traffic exchanges to promote your next greatest network marketing opportunity. I mean, what load of BS! At least give me bonuses that complement the core product(s) and will help me get the results for what I'm spending on buying from your site. Now if that doesn't make sense, then I get the point (yes, I'm smirking already)...
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

            As for the Big Mac, I've answered that above
            But how do those McDonald's products serve different purposes? They're all (arguably) food. Food's food, right?

            Likewise, you might have a bag full of golf clubs, but all of them are just for hitting a ball. Aren't they all the same?

            What you don't seem to grasp is that the IM niche is also full of different products with different purposes. Your inability to distinguish them is not because the "gurus" are cheating you. It's because you aren't paying enough attention.
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          • Profile picture of the author ebizman87
            Why going for 1 month?

            I'm in a list of a so called "guru" that promotes new products almost every 2 days...I can forward you the emails if you want some proof..lol

            I'm in his list to not to learn IM or read his emails but to spy on what he's doing or what product that he's promoting..

            -Case Closed-
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          • Profile picture of the author 2010MAVRIK
            The simple answer for this is to get profits. You can generate more money from new one than the old ones.
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          Actually... Wal Mart sells tens of thousand of different
          products. I can go there every day for the rest of my
          life and never buy the same product twice.

          The point is that so-called "gurus' (silly word) promote
          different products on a regular basis because real business
          runs on cash flow.

          Another important point that most internet marketers seem
          to not understand is that, even though you mail to the same
          list, it's a different market nearly every time. Not everyone
          is in the market for any particular product at the same time.

          20% of the list may be in the market for an SEO product
          this week while another 20% may be interested in creating
          video products... or learning copy writing skills... or PPC... or...
          or... or...

          Tsnyder
          In theory with over 120k on my list then i could actually send out 120k emails each one of them may be in the market for a different product

          As a list owner I have no idea how many would be interested in which product...

          Each email is not personal to you or your needs, they are catering for a much larger number of subscribers.

          Sensible people are discerning on what they purchase, so the list owner has to make sure his/her list of products they sell have a large enough range to cover as many people on their list as possible.

          Frankly Jextreme is 100% correct, this type of question is non sensicle considering your in a marketing forum.

          Robert

          PS: I'm off to write the other 119,999 emails now
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          • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
            I have been on Robert' list since 2007 and bought once. No skin off my back if he sends ten emails. When I don't want to hear it, I get off the list. When I want back on...I get back on his list.

            Easy peasy...

            CT

            Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

            In theory with over 120k on my list then i could actually send out 120k emails each one of them may be in the market for a different product

            As a list owner I have no idea how many would be interested in which product...

            Each email is not personal to you or your needs, they are catering for a much larger number of subscribers.

            Sensible people are discerning on what they purchase, so the list owner has to make sure his/her list of products they sell have a large enough range to cover as many people on their list as possible.

            Frankly Jextreme is 100% correct, this type of question is non sensicle considering your in a marketing forum.

            Robert

            PS: I'm off to write the other 119,999 emails now
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          • Profile picture of the author TimG
            Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

            In theory with over 120k on my list then i could actually send out 120k emails each one of them may be in the market for a different product

            As a list owner I have no idea how many would be interested in which product...

            Each email is not personal to you or your needs, they are catering for a much larger number of subscribers.

            Sensible people are discerning on what they purchase, so the list owner has to make sure his/her list of products they sell have a large enough range to cover as many people on their list as possible.

            Frankly Jextreme is 100% correct, this type of question is non sensicle considering your in a marketing forum.

            Robert

            PS: I'm off to write the other 119,999 emails now
            Robert,
            Solid points but WOW.....a list of 120,000....that's huge. Sometimes I think we forget about the size of some marketer's list. I'm so far away from 120,000 that I couldn't even fathom what type of response comes from mailing a list of that size.

            Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author ShaneRQR
    I'm loving this thread. Too many awesome and interesting replies to list them all.

    I agree that "marketer wants to make money" and "customer really, really likes buying stuff" are two of the most important reasons. That's just how our economy works. As consumers, we constantly want to buy new stuff and as marketers, we constantly want to sell more stuff.

    Another factor that I think should not be dismissed is the fact that many markets are constantly changing and evolving. Certainly this is the case for the IM market. While the principles of marketing remain the same, the widgets and tricks that brought home the bacon a few years ago largely don't cut it anymore. The marketplace has changed, the Google algorithms, AdWords and Facebook rules have changed etc.
    So, in some cases, there's actually a real need for new products and it's not just down to "greedy" marketers and "frothing at the mouth" customers.

    Just a thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I'm still amazed by people who make statements such as "this makes me sick" when they are being bombarded by a million other marketing messages (offline, online, audio, visual, etc.), oftentimes far more than any "guru" could ever e-mail them (on a list they opted into), yet they CHOOSE to single out marketing "gurus". And in a marketing forum no less claiming they are a "student" of marketing. It just blows my mind on what people choose to focus on.

    Smart marketers have a comprehensive back-end marketing strategy not simply to make money, but because they know one product at one price point does not meet the needs of every demographic they are trying to target. If you're selling a DVD series on how to improve your golf swing to your list, not everyone on your list is going to be interested in that. Like Dennis mentioned only a certain % will be. Someone else on the list might be looking an online store on where to buy a new golf club. And so on an so forth........

    It's the same reason why car manufacturers have different lines of cars and models, each with their own different set of options and features. Bookstores also don't sell just one book. I mean, some of them even try to sell you pastries and coffee when you go in there! For the love of.....!

    Look, I opted into a cigar club newsletter about a year ago and every month I get a newsletter showing me new cigars since I might want to buy one. I opted into this list so it would be pretty insane of me to complain if they tried selling me a humidor or a cigar cutter. Feel me?

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      If Coke is so good, why do they bother
      making 3,300 more beverages?

      http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/b...ct_list_a.html

      Surely, if one quenches your thirst and
      tasted good, why bother with anything
      else?

      Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

      Hello Warriors,

      Sure this thread is open to all of you to respond with your thoughts. The title was just to get the attention of everybody, and especially the Internet Marketers who bombard (no pun intended :p) us with the brand new shiny product/software/package every other week or month.

      If your previous system was so good and it made people a lot of money, then why not continue to promote the same one? Why do you promote another offer, whether yours or from an affiliate?

      I understand that there are people ready to buy the NEW version, but is that the only reason?

      I'm also sure this question might have come up here many a time earlier, but I don't think there's been a convincing response to it from the big guys, as yet.

      So, please... share your thoughts here and help me decrypt why I might want to do the same (if convinced about it) in the future, if I enter the IM market at all.

      Thanks in advance
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  • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
    Coke, Wal-mart, book stores, automotive companies, cigar stores/companies, golfing equipment & accessories merchants... like I said, although they might do business online, they're different from how the IM-niches work. They sell you a different product, which serves a different purpose. It's true you might be sold a golf club today, and right the next week the company comes up with a better one promising a better swing (don't know much about golf, so I could be wrong with the applicability of terms used here). They come up with different features and sell you products from their industry. Even cross-selling starts a very soft level, with the help of freebies. In the IM-market, everyone is teaching you a hundred ways to make money online. And most come with claims like "Hey, I marked a million with Twitter", "My friend J Blow did 20K last week with a sneaky SEO trick. I tried it and made a cool 10K with just 1 hour of set up", "Today, I'll teach you how to get 100 leads in 48 hours using only FREE methods. And the same person comes back 2 weeks later and says, "I've been killing it with PPC like nobody else. I've done it consistently for years and have an arsenal of tricks up my sleeve. They'll help you out too - Here, hit the BUY button and get access to it". As if that kind of absurdity (and I seem to think it is so, at least for now) wasn't enough, if you just go back a few days in your inbox and read a mail from the same marketer, he's claiming to teach all he knows and all he does. Well then, where did PPC come out all of a suddent from the years' worth of experience?

    And no, I (being a marketer and a student of marketing) don't mind being marketed to... In fact, I seem to appreciate smart marketing work. Heck, I love it so much so that I go on promoting it to my family, just 'coz the marketing activity/promotion triggered my senses/emotion.

    But what I'm talking about... is the IM-niche. It's a given that the customers ultimately get to choose whether they want to buy or not; and my usage of words like "makes me sick" might have made my post sound like a rant. My bad

    What I was actually trying to do is... find out the reasoning behind something like that. And, I'm not talking about a gap of years... If you've gone through the example in my previous post (on this thread), you'll see that I'm talking about products being promoted just weeks apart. Even at that, the claim doesn't raise up, down in fact. Of course, at times higher too... but it's NOT ALWAYS just going up - Know what I mean?!

    And I wasn't addressing to the GURUs alone, but the practice of sending mails day after day after day promoting a brand new product. In fact, going by that, Frank Kern seems to care about this aspect and doesn't often write to you bombarding just about anything. Sure he's the SUPER-HULK and doesn't need to. But, the others that claim I made a gazillion bucks in 7 days and bought a yellow super-car and such - Do they really need to promote if Frank Kern doesn't? Again, it's Frank Kern's choice if he doesn't do it, and I agree. Like I said, usage of the word 'GURU' was just to get some discussion happening on this thread.

    In fact, I have a real SUPER-RECENT (and I mean, within the last 48 hours) example I would like to share:
    There's this guy who says I'm going to teach you (with the help of a student of mine) how to make your first $500 online - This was just about 46 hours ago, as per my Gmail inbox.
    Today, he's selling me a product that has been pitched by him at least over a week ago and has been pitched by every other BIG name marketer out there. He sends me a mail bearing the subject line "the 'Local Marketing' lie..." < Anybody who finds a resemblance to this one?

    So well, what happened to teaching me how to make $500?! Are you going to tell me that was just a soft launch?! Interesting, but somehow doesn't cut it with a skeptic like me. Yes, I'm a tough customer to sell on; but that doesn't mean I don't like being marketed to or I hate super-rich competitors/marketers (heck, I'm not even playing in the IM-niche as yet... so the word 'competitors' won't apply) or am a sucker, a rotten contact in your big list. No... far from it. But, where's your consistency, Champ?

    P.S.: Wal-mart is open everyday, because we eat everyday (one of the many reasons).

    P.P.S.: Sorry for such a long post and such long paragraphs, just couldn't think of a better way to format/organise it. My apologies for any inconvenience caused on that front.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

      What I was actually trying to do is... find out the reasoning behind something like that. And, I'm not talking about a gap of years... If you've gone through the example in my previous post (on this thread), you'll see that I'm talking about products being promoted just weeks apart. Even at that, the claim doesn't raise up, down in fact. Of course, at times higher too... but it's NOT ALWAYS just going up - Know what I mean?!
      Sometimes the reason for cross-promotions is reciprocity. Guru B mailed his list about Guru A's new product last month, so Guru A now mails his list about Guru B's new product.

      You also have to remember that people have different philosophies on how best to use their list. Some people only mail once in a while, others mail daily or several times a week. Some follow a ratio of purely informational emails to their list versus sales messages. At the end of the day, if you don't like the way a particular marketer markets, your best bet is simply to unsubscribe.
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  • Profile picture of the author rts2271
    I promote a new product ever 3 days. I go by the rule of throw as much sh*t as possible against the wall and see what sticks. Spend followup effort on stuff that sticks and ditch bad ones without looking back.
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    • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
      Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

      I promote a new product ever 3 days. I go by the rule of throw as much sh*t as possible against the wall and see what sticks. Spend followup effort on stuff that sticks and ditch bad ones without looking back.
      LOL, if I assume your strategy (or way of marketing, actually) is also in sync with the reasoning of the big guys, then I can think of just one thing right now. Isn't the marketer doing injustice to (people of) his own kind, by pitching just about anything that there might be takers for?!
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      • Profile picture of the author rts2271
        No I discriminate products in my promotions. I keep niche related inside of it's realm. I only promote products I myself would use and I never ever abuse my list intentionally. I also though have 9 different fairly unrelated niches and about 40 sub-niches under those.
        My time is worth more finding good products for my people so they will go out and refer people to me. It works as my list went from 0 to 116k since October of last year, all optins no coreg or imports. I lose about 50 subscribers a day and gain about 100. I am totally 100% unknown to the general public in the "Internet Marketing" circles. I have been building automation systems for Gurus for 6+ years.
        But I guarantee that if you saw me you would remember me from a number of seminars sitting at the back table, that is if you attend seminars and classes in the US, UK or Australia. I am not a IM guru and do not claim to be one. I am simply a business owner trying to make my clients happy and fill their pockets with cash. If I do that I will (and do) make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    I'm surprised anybody even feels the need to ask this question..

    And even more surprised that we all feel compelled to answer, when we know it's a strange one to start with.

    12 months in a year... more than 12 problems to solve?... damn right, so already we cover more than enough problems than there are months in a year = at least one product a month if we want to.

    And that is just one simple, boring explanation.

    There are probably a thousand different reasons why people release products... all of them probably hold water, too.
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  • wow... if you guys haven't figured this out yet - you're either new, or in the wrong business... =)

    They don't promote products for fancy cars, or big houses in La Jolla (at least not the ones I align myself with).

    They promote products and change up, because internet marketing is a living breathing industry. It changes faster than we can learn about it. I know this, they know this, anyone who is a professional in this industry knows this.

    Guys like Eben Pagan, Frank Kern, Jason Moffat don't sell just for the sake of selling. They all have more than enough money. If money was their only motive, they'd be bored by now.

    They do it, I do it, because we like helping people - and due to the ever changing environments of the internet, staying up to date is crucial.

    If you think you're being 'scammed' or 'oversold', get a new email address and don't sign up for anyone's lists with that email. Our passion is in helping people.

    None of us were born with silver spoon. We all started at the bottom. It's what gave us drive. We want to help like minded people get to a level where they don't have to 'worry about money' like a few of you in this thread do.

    Everyone says it, but it still holds true. You need a major paradigm shift if you're going to make it in this business. Stop thinking in a land of scarcity and 'everyone is out to get me'. Some people truly care.

    If you don't like paying for the information, that's fine. Just know there's a price for everything.

    Guru's dont create anything new. They merely organize information into a system. A system that dramatically speeds up the learning curve for anyone going through their course.

    To some, time is more valuable.

    To others, money is more valuable.

    You can always make more money, you can never create more time.

    So, do you want a steep learning curve, and weeks/months of searching out, and wading through crap information to get to the good stuff? Or do you want to learn it now, skip the crap, and get to somewhere where you can make money?

    If you're one of the dudes or dudettes who have purchased product after product, and still have gotten nowhere? That's not the "guru's" fault. It's because you didn't take MASSIVE ACTION with that product. Any single one of the products you buy (if they're from a decent "guru") was more than sufficient to make you money. Somewhere along the line, you decided it

    A) Wasn't for you
    B) Was Too Hard
    C) Took Too Long

    or... you just gave up.

    Success is merely a matter of never fighting the last fight. Never let this fight, in anything be your 'last fight'. You do that, and you've lost. =) Have a great day, and a great weekend guys and gals.
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    • Profile picture of the author coluden
      Yes, making money is not the only reason to create these new products. Some "guru's will create a product just to sell their snail mail monthly magazines. And why would you want a fancy magazine when you could read all the same info online?

      There will be many reasons for that, and marketing gurus recognize and spend money to meet people's needs in a variety of ways. Between the Guru creating the product and you buying it, there are enough variables to differentiate one product from another to keep new products coming out to the 1.6 billion people online for many years to come.

      coluden
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  • It's also for a few other reasons.

    a) People want the newest, shiniest toys. Then don't want "yesterdays" news.
    b) One upmanship - many people want to be 'better' than someone else, and if a product can give them that edge, they'll get it.
    c) Techniques & strategies change.

    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

    Hello Warriors,

    Sure this thread is open to all of you to respond with your thoughts. The title was just to get the attention of everybody, and especially the Internet Marketers who bombard (no pun intended :p) us with the brand new shiny product/software/package every other week or month.

    If your previous system was so good and it made people a lot of money, then why not continue to promote the same one? Why do you promote another offer, whether yours or from an affiliate?

    I understand that there are people ready to buy the NEW version, but is that the only reason?

    I'm also sure this question might have come up here many a time earlier, but I don't think there's been a convincing response to it from the big guys, as yet.

    So, please... share your thoughts here and help me decrypt why I might want to do the same (if convinced about it) in the future, if I enter the IM market at all.

    Thanks in advance
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  • Profile picture of the author Arun Pal Singh
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    They need money every month. Those Italian cars are expensive.
    LOL

    Arun Pal Singh
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    If 10% buy a product month one, 90% are available to buy a product and not be redundant.

    Then a product I buy, I just do not get it. A month later a new product, even one much like the one I didn't understand comes out. It is written/video taped/presented in a different way. Ah-ha now I get it! Maybe if I had bought just the second product I'd have 'gotten it' and maybe the only reason things clicked was because I bought them both.

    The annoying part for me is when an email describes in detail how someone personally tested the product and it is word for word the same as the next email; (meaning I was lied to.) Otherwise as stated, I do not have to buy it or even be on their list AND in some cases it takes a different point of view before some understand how to make a system work.

    So a ton of reasons for it and not all are 'bad' reasons or the 'Lamborghini needs an oil change' reasons.

    PS-I do not know why they even live in La Jolla, Del Mar is much prettier and less crowded and the surf is almost as high.
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    • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
      Originally Posted by coluden View Post

      There will be many reasons for that, and marketing gurus recognize and spend money to meet people's needs in a variety of ways. Between the Guru creating the product and you buying it, there are enough variables to differentiate one product from another to keep new products coming out to the 1.6 billion people online for many years to come.

      coluden
      Thanks coluden, that's exactly the kind of discussion I was aiming at. This helps me understand one perspective - that of the marketer addressing the NEEDS & WANTS of the customers. It was said above, just in a different way. Thanks to everyone who said the same thing maybe I wasn't smart enough to get it right, when told the other way. This is starting to put things in the right (or desired, I would say) perspective(s).

      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      The annoying part for me is when an email describes in detail how someone personally tested the product and it is word for word the same as the next email; (meaning I was lied to.)
      Exactly my point. There have been discussions on this in the past I'm sure, it's just that my question today was a pretty long one with a few 'statements' (based on my perception) that seem to have taken a different route.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
    Yea there is this evil guru called Amazon. I buy stuff from them and they keep emailing me (damn spammers) like every day selling me more stuff.

    I bought the flip and they said it was the best. Then they "spammed' me about the Flip HD which they said was the best...WHAT? I thought the Flip was the best. Then they emailed me about the Kodak Zi8 video camera...WHAT? Why oh why would they do that? I already bought the Flip and the Flip HD.

    They keep emailing me like everyday. I don't get it. I hope Jeff Bezos jumps on here and answers why they keep emailing me and selling me stuff. I already bought once.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by SimonHarrison View Post


    It is truly amazing the number of marketers who hate to be
    marketed to on the forum.
    That attitude will explain why many of them have very little success in the field. If you condemn and hate others for doing what you hope to be successful at, your subconscious mind will sabotage your own efforts to succeed in order to keep you true to your beliefs.

    That's why almost every psychologist, philosopher, and sage throughout the ages have taught that we need to change our beliefs to change our world.
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    • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      If you condemn and hate others for doing what you hope to be successful at, your subconscious mind will sabotage your own efforts to succeed in order to keep you true to your beliefs.
      For the record, that did not happen on this thread.

      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      That's why almost every psychologist, philosopher, and sage throughout the ages have taught that we need to change our beliefs to change our world.
      I like this line. Sets a good reminder for everyone reading it. Thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author jdenc
        So many scams and so many shady characters only an idiot or a complete babe in the woods wouldn't be skeptical to some degree. For those of you who are stand up business guys it has to gall you to see some fly by night loser come in and destroy the faith the market has in those marketing to them. It has to feel horrible to know a lot of people think you are a liar because they have been lied to by so many of the people in this sector. It happens in a lot of the newer fields. Heck in the offline computer/network consulting it exists. I know. I fought it tooth and nail for years. Some know nothing shyster comes in takes thousands and leaves the business owner with nothing basically and it takes you a lot of work to get past that trust issue. Even though they can see you face to face any time they want, they know your real name and they work with you on site.

        So I see no reason to get mad at the skeptics. To be honest this industry has serious issues with a lack oversight, credentialing and with readily accepted hinky practices. You just have to keep providing a quality product that delivers and eventually you rise above that. Mostly. I mean we see it here. People develop great reps for delivering over and over. Unfortunately this is a relatively tiny harbor in an other wise very stormy ocean and when people land here they often have already been through the worst this biz has to offer. Their trust is gone and it isn't really their fault. So their skepticism isn't at all surprising and neither is their latent anger.

        Just my 2 cents.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

        That attitude will explain why many of them have very little success in the field. If you condemn and hate others for doing what you hope to be successful at, your subconscious mind will sabotage your own efforts to succeed in order to keep you true to your beliefs.
        For the record, that did not happen on this thread.
        I know, but I was responding to Simon, who did bring it up (in reference to the forum in general I presume, not this particular thread).
        That's why almost every psychologist, philosopher, and sage throughout the ages have taught that we need to change our beliefs to change our world.
        I like this line. Sets a good reminder for everyone reading it. Thanks

        I like it too. I only wish it had sunk in for me sooner.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Leyson
          Ok please forgive me if this is a little bit jumbled it has been a long day.
          I Just wanted to put my two cents in.

          Why do cosmetic companies keep bringing out new lotions and potions that all promise to make you look 10 years younger?

          Why do they spend massive money promoting a product (Y), when they have countless similar products out there that work as well if not better than product (Y)?

          Because customers have stopped buying product (X) at such a rabid rate. So add a different scent a new bottle why not a fancy squirt top, build the buzz around the new product (Y) and it sells well because they have base of consumers that have purchased product (X) and were for the most part happy. Yet they all want to believe there is something better than the last great product that they bought.

          This is a rather simplistic view of the market I know but I think it is fairly accurate. I can understand why people may think that all big so called "guru" marketers are just out to rob every last unsuspecting person of every last penny. The truth is that anyone who is in the game for the long term is knows that you must keep delivering fresh new products. Where people seem to get this wrong is they need to deliver top quality highly valuable information. Time and Time again.

          I for one am on quite a few mailing lists, not all IM related either, and I expect to get marketed to. If for no other reason it is the best way to view market trends, every now and then I even buy new products some good some downright rubbish. Those that sell me something of value are welcome to try sell me something of equal value at a later date.
          I hope that made at least a little sense.
          David.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimG
    It really all boils down to simple economics and the law of diminishing returns:

    Simple Definition - The tendency for a continuing application of effort or skill toward a particular project or goal to decline in effectiveness after a certain level of result has been achieved.

    Elaborate Definition - diminishing returns (also called diminishing marginal returns) refers to how the marginal production of a factor of production starts to progressively decrease as the factor is increased, in contrast to the increase that would otherwise be normally expected. According to this relationship, in a production system with fixed and variable inputs (say factory size and labor), there will be a point beyond which each additional unit of the variable input (i.e., man-hours) yields smaller and smaller increases in outputs, also reducing each worker's mean productivity. Conversely, producing one more unit of output will cost increasingly more (owing to the major amount of variable inputs being used, to little effect).

    Respectfully,
    Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

    If your previous system was so good and it made people a lot of money, then why not continue to promote the same one? Why do you promote another offer, whether yours or from an affiliate?
    If the Big Mac is so good, why does McDonald's have chicken and salads and french fries?
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    • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      If the Big Mac is so good, why does McDonald's have chicken and salads and french fries?
      The more important question is how can anybody eat McDonalds food,
      feels like Burger Kings poorer cousin.

      Not that I partake often but Big Mac versus Double Whopper - no contest.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by SimonHarrison View Post

        feels like Burger Kings poorer cousin.
        Whatever. Burger King also serves chicken, salad, and french fries.
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        • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Whatever. Burger King also serves chicken, salad, and french fries.
          Not really followed the thread or the relevance to this salad, french fries thang..

          I'm sure it's deeply interesting but not on par with why the heck do people
          actually eat McD, stuff tastes like rubber.
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      • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
        Originally Posted by SimonHarrison View Post

        The more important question is how can anybody eat McDonalds food,
        feels like Burger Kings poorer cousin.

        Not that I partake often but Big Mac versus Double Whopper - no contest.
        Double QP vs Double Whopper.. Double QP wins No Contest

        ---

        Back to marketing. When YOU opt-in.. They have the right to send you w/e BS they wanna. Again they give you the option to opt-out in every e-mail. If you don't want to read this bs no more, just friggen opt-out.

        Pretty simple eh?
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by bozonessinc View Post

          Double QP vs Double Whopper.. Double QP wins No Contest
          That really depends on which side of the "fried v. flame-broiled" argument you're on. If you're on the flame-broiled side, McDonald's can make the most awesome sandwich in the world and you'll still go to BK because it's flame-broiled. Similarly, if you have some bug up your butt over frozen meat, you'll always go to Wendy's because they don't freeze their meat.

          Personally, I don't like flame-broiled burgers, because those little charred areas that the flame-broiled people like so much are - as I understand it - BURNT. I don't like burnt burgers. And if you'd rather have your burger sitting unfrozen in the festering cesspool of bacteria and disease that is the average fast-food kitchen, you have some kind of brain disorder.

          Here's an interesting marketing point. McDonald's is so ashamed of the press garnered by the movie "Super Size Me" that they've discontinued the super size meal.

          If you've actually seen the movie, it's about how hideously unhealthy the food is, not how large the portions are. It covers the health ramifications of eating McDonald's as one's main diet. It covers the addictive nature of the food, and the way a lack of it led to withdrawal symptoms superficially similar to those of hard drugs.

          So McDonald's has responded by making their "large" soda and fries the smallest in the industry.

          Talk about missing the point.

          And that's why I generally prefer Jack in the Box or Carl's Jr. Besides, Carl's has these awesome deep-fried burritos...
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            That really depends on which side of the "fried v. flame-broiled" argument you're on. If you're on the flame-broiled side, McDonald's can make the most awesome sandwich in the world and you'll still go to BK because it's flame-broiled. Similarly, if you have some bug up your butt over frozen meat, you'll always go to Wendy's because they don't freeze their meat.

            Personally, I don't like flame-broiled burgers, because those little charred areas that the flame-broiled people like so much are - as I understand it - BURNT. I don't like burnt burgers. And if you'd rather have your burger sitting unfrozen in the festering cesspool of bacteria and disease that is the average fast-food kitchen, you have some kind of brain disorder.

            Here's an interesting marketing point. McDonald's is so ashamed of the press garnered by the movie "Super Size Me" that they've discontinued the super size meal.

            If you've actually seen the movie, it's about how hideously unhealthy the food is, not how large the portions are. It covers the health ramifications of eating McDonald's as one's main diet. It covers the addictive nature of the food, and the way a lack of it led to withdrawal symptoms superficially similar to those of hard drugs.

            So McDonald's has responded by making their "large" soda and fries the smallest in the industry.

            Talk about missing the point.

            And that's why I generally prefer Jack in the Box or Carl's Jr. Besides, Carl's has these awesome deep-fried burritos...

            Can we all just agree that fast food is no good for you...period?
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            • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Can we all just agree that fast food is no good for you...period?
              Not In-N-Out burger Steven......that stuff is GOOOOOOD for you.

              At least that's what I tell myself!

              RoD
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Can we all just agree that fast food is no good for you...period?
              Sure. But can we also agree that if you only do what's "good for you," your life will suck?
              Signature
              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                Sure. But can we also agree that if you only do what's "good for you," your life will suck?
                I guess it depends on what makes you happy. I'm perfectly content eating
                healthy and staying away from things I know are bad for me. I have my
                music and that makes up for all the Twinkies and Ring Dings I no longer eat.
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                • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  I guess it depends on what makes you happy. I'm perfectly content eating healthy and staying away from things I know are bad for me.
                  Content isn't normally in my vocabulary. There's always a little farther, a little harder, a little faster, a little more. Perfection is something you can never reach, but that's no reason to stop trying.

                  You can take that either way, but I can say from personal experience that if I eat a double quarter pounder half an hour before hitting the gym, my numbers go up. I can lift heavier, faster, and more.

                  And while I've experimented heavily with a lot of supplements... from the budget whey powder to the boutique hydrolysed stuff... nothing pumps up the volume like that half-pound of cheap government-surplus beef with a handful of onions.

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                  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
                    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

                    Looks like you've taken offence to this thread. Cool it Jason
                    it's just that these threads pop up regularly, along with "i hate long copy", "i hate video", "i hate having to opt in".. and 9 times out of 10, it's someone who's not making much money or running a successfull business- and it's obvious why, when they don't seem to unnderstand that they are supposed to be marketers.

                    In this case, it boggles my mind why people don't understand why a salesman tries to sell them stuff, why a marketer is always marketing.. and thinks that the very best marketers out there should only listen to what they, the person without even a fraction of their success(often a struggling newbie), has to say about how they should be running their business. I liken it to a kid on a t-ball team saying that a pro ball player is doing it all wrong.

                    I was successfull from day 1 in IM because I EMULATED the successfull, instead of resenting their methods. I studied copywriting and direct marketing while others complained about long copy. Instead of complaining about video, I made a THIRTY MINUTE review video of CB product, and saw my sales jump.

                    When ever someone says "I hate when marketers______", it just show's that they still think of marketers as "them", instead of "us"..

                    pschologicaly, they're still placing themselves on the outside looking in, still identifying themselves as buyers instead of sellers.

                    I am a firm believer that if I can convince them to make that fundemental shift in their thinking, that they will then experience a significant shift for the better in their business. That they will finaly cross over from being an internet consumer into being an internet marketer.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Antoni
                      Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

                      it's just that these threads pop up regularly, along with "i hate long copy", "i hate video", "i hate having to opt in".. and 9 times out of 10, it's someone who's not making much money or running a successfull business- and it's obvious why, when they don't seem to unnderstand that they are supposed to be marketers.

                      In this case, it boggles my mind why people don't understand why a salesman tries to sell them stuff, why a marketer is always marketing.. and thinks that the very best marketers out there should only listen to what they, the person without even a fraction of their success(often a struggling newbie), has to say about how they should be running their business. I liken it to a kid on a t-ball team saying that a pro ball player is doing it all wrong.

                      I was successfull from day 1 in IM because I EMULATED the successfull, instead of resenting their methods. I studied copywriting and direct marketing while others complained about long copy. Instead of complaining about video, I made a THIRTY MINUTE review video of CB product, and saw my sales jump.

                      When ever someone says "I hate when marketers______", it just show's that they still think of marketers as "them", instead of "us"..

                      pschologicaly, they're still placing themselves on the outside looking in, still identifying themselves as buyers instead of sellers.

                      I am a firm believer that if I can convince them to make that fundemental shift in their thinking, that they will then experience a significant shift for the better in their business. That they will finaly cross over from being an internet consumer into being an internet marketer.
                      Great response. I think you've really hit the nail on the head. I just want to make sure a few more people read this so I'm quoting it in it's entirety.

                      And it's SO TRUE. The people who "hate" marketing are placing themselves in an outsider position. Great stuff, I can't even add anything cause you've said it all!
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                      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                        Hi CLIFFMN,

                        A lot of people (not necessarily you, but a lot of people in general) could fast-forward their learning and experience if they took a step back, examined things from afar and found a new perspective.

                        Sometimes the lessons we are seeking are not the lessons that we get. But once this is understood, we should be alert for the lessons wherever they arrive from, even if they appear from beyond our peripheral vision or from out of left-field. Even if they're not the lessons we wanted, we should embrace them.

                        For example, it has always astounded me that people come here and should quickly become aware that there are persuasion experts all around. You know, some of the product titles are a giveaway clue like 'mass control' for example. Yet what they see are a bunch of people offering help and free stuff. Then they act shocked and dismayed when the help and free stuff isn't so helpful or free.

                        They then have two choices. They can either step back and take a look at the big picture from a new perspective in order to see things for what they really are. Or they can soldier on with false assumptions determined to find that quality free stuff and help.

                        I'll answer some of your points. I'll be blunt, but not in order to offend, but because I actually do offer free help - when I decide to post.

                        I just attended a 'webinar' that was hyped to me for week. It made major promises and claims that someone WILL be teaching, IN THE WEBINAR, their exact steps to ... etc etc etc. Not ONE SINGLE mention in all the emails about ANYTHING for sale.
                        So examine this from a new perspective. Who's at fault here? The persuaders who did their job of 'persuading', albeit by twisting their persuasion into deception? That's tough, but that's the way it goes, sadly. Compute, store in memory banks and get over it quickly.

                        Were there any clues to the upcoming deception? If so, make notes and remember them for the future. Don't fall for them again.

                        It was 'hyped for a week.' Did that set off any alarm bells? Should it have? Should it from now onwards?

                        So they promised to teach without selling but didn't deliver on that promise. Have you ever come across that before? Is this the first time ever that you have encountered such deception?

                        Blunt response - when are you going to learn?

                        You were seeking a teacher, so there's the lesson. It might not be the lesson you were seeking, but take it anyway. Or not. It's up to you.

                        Now I'm not saying there's not quality in the course, of course I wouldn't know since I clicked off it.
                        This one's a biggie and it will likely annoy some people. Do you think that if someone is setting out to decieve you, that they really care about whether the information they use as a smokescreen to cover their deception is accurate or not?

                        Really?

                        But still, I see tons of people justifying being subscribed to hundreds of mailing lists of people who deceive every time they open their mouth because they want to learn from how they do things, or because they think that the deception is surrounded by quality information.

                        Who do you think spends most of their time slaving away testing stuff and fnding out real solutions to real problems? The people who are interested in deceiving you?

                        Why would they? They are busy with deception.

                        So there's another 'free' lesson. Even when you can identify upcoming deception, you may still be making a grave mistake by exposing yourself to misinformation from someone who has proven themselves to be unreliable. Even if you avoid the actual deception, you may still be deceived by consuming misinformation. Protect the real-estate in your head - don't allow anyone to tamper with it.

                        but the blatant misleading and lies of the emails to get people there is what the problem is
                        You only have to expose yourself to that kind of deception from a particular person ONCE. There is no excuse for the second time. Their deception is not the problem. The problem is people who get deceived yet continue to take exactly the same path in the blind hope that things will turn out differently. These people give the appearance that they actually don't want to learn the lessons which are shoved in their faces.

                        And this was sponsored by whom I thought was one the most reputable guys/guru's in the Warrior Forum... man, am I disappointed....
                        So you have identified a problem. What is it?

                        The problem is that what you previously considered as factors that make someone 'reputable' have been exposed as incorrect.

                        So go backwards. What were those factors? Once you have established what they were, mark them down as the opposite. These are now factors that help you to identify who is likely to not be reputable.

                        This person 'sponsored' the 'lessons'. 'Sponsored' is newspeak for 'getting paid to promote'. So you have established that someone's reputation for making recommendations has been altered. They have abused your trust. How do you respond to that? Moan? Try to reason with them? Or do you cut the lines of communication between them and yourself forever? Do you also allow this lesson to help you to decide how much time you will allot in future to learning from others and how much you will allot to learning from someone you can trust (like yourself for example)?

                        Are you starting to see behind the curtain yet? Are you starting to see through the smoke and mirrors?

                        Continually I see threads here from people who are frustrated as they search for people to teach them how to do stuff online.

                        If you are one of those people who have found only deception and frustration, here's a novel new approach you could take that I feel like posting every single time I see those type of threads.

                        Do it yourself.

                        Teach yourself how to use Google. Develop some initiative - it will take you far in business. Spend your time using the mountain of free online tools out there to reverse-engineer websites that are successful. Use your own eyes and brain to establish what works beyond doubt through observation, analysis and then your own tests.

                        Don't like being deceived? Then start seeing things as they really are. Have some pride and some backbone and don't allow yourself to be deceived.

                        Do you not believe that you have the ability to go out there and find the right lessons, solutions and data ON YOUR OWN that you need to create your own education and your own business?

                        Then you shouldn't even be considering going into business. Go away and come back when you have the belief.

                        Some people deceive, some people don't. Identify both and choose which ones you want to learn from. If you simply can't find the one group that you want to learn from, then ask whether you trust yourself. Then go and learn from him/her.

                        HTH.
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                        • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
                          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                          There's always a little farther, a little harder, a little faster, a little more. Perfection is something you can never reach, but that's no reason to stop trying.
                          I tried resisting the thought of posting the next line, but couldn't. So, please don't take offence. Pass it all up - in the fun.
                          Next time you're in it, try hitting a little deeper too... You might get that extra bit close to Perfection. And rightly as you said, there's no reason to stop. So, don't stop.

                          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                          Hi CLIFFMN,

                          A lot of people (not necessarily you, but a lot of people in general) could fast-forward their learning and experience if they took a step back, examined things from afar and found a new perspective.

                          Sometimes the lessons we are seeking are not the lessons that we get. But once this is understood, we should be alert for the lessons wherever they arrive from, even if they appear from beyond our peripheral vision or from out of left-field. Even if they're not the lessons we wanted, we should embrace them.

                          For example, it has always astounded me that people come here and should quickly become aware that there are persuasion experts all around. You know, some of the product titles are a giveaway clue like 'mass control' for example. Yet what they see are a bunch of people offering help and free stuff. Then they act shocked and dismayed when the help and free stuff isn't so helpful or free.

                          They then have two choices. They can either step back and take a look at the big picture from a new perspective in order to see things for what they really are. Or they can soldier on with false assumptions determined to find that quality free stuff and help.

                          I'll answer some of your points. I'll be blunt, but not in order to offend, but because I actually do offer free help - when I decide to post.

                          So examine this from a new perspective. Who's at fault here? The persuaders who did their job of 'persuading', albeit by twisting their persuasion into deception? That's tough, but that's the way it goes, sadly. Compute, store in memory banks and get over it quickly.

                          Were there any clues to the upcoming deception? If so, make notes and remember them for the future. Don't fall for them again.

                          It was 'hyped for a week.' Did that set off any alarm bells? Should it have? Should it from now onwards?

                          So they promised to teach without selling but didn't deliver on that promise. Have you ever come across that before? Is this the first time ever that you have encountered such deception?

                          Blunt response - when are you going to learn?

                          You were seeking a teacher, so there's the lesson. It might not be the lesson you were seeking, but take it anyway. Or not. It's up to you.

                          This one's a biggie and it will likely annoy some people. Do you think that if someone is setting out to decieve you, that they really care about whether the information they use as a smokescreen to cover their deception is accurate or not?

                          Really?

                          But still, I see tons of people justifying being subscribed to hundreds of mailing lists of people who deceive every time they open their mouth because they want to learn from how they do things, or because they think that the deception is surrounded by quality information.

                          Who do you think spends most of their time slaving away testing stuff and fnding out real solutions to real problems? The people who are interested in deceiving you?

                          Why would they? They are busy with deception.

                          So there's another 'free' lesson. Even when you can identify upcoming deception, you may still be making a grave mistake by exposing yourself to misinformation from someone who has proven themselves to be unreliable. Even if you avoid the actual deception, you may still be deceived by consuming misinformation. Protect the real-estate in your head - don't allow anyone to tamper with it.

                          You only have to expose yourself to that kind of deception from a particular person ONCE. There is no excuse for the second time. Their deception is not the problem. The problem is people who get deceived yet continue to take exactly the same path in the blind hope that things will turn out differently. These people give the appearance that they actually don't want to learn the lessons which are shoved in their faces.

                          So you have identified a problem. What is it?

                          The problem is that what you previously considered as factors that make someone 'reputable' have been exposed as incorrect.

                          So go backwards. What were those factors? Once you have established what they were, mark them down as the opposite. These are now factors that help you to identify who is likely to not be reputable.

                          This person 'sponsored' the 'lessons'. 'Sponsored' is newspeak for 'getting paid to promote'. So you have established that someone's reputation for making recommendations has been altered. They have abused your trust. How do you respond to that? Moan? Try to reason with them? Or do you cut the lines of communication between them and yourself forever? Do you also allow this lesson to help you to decide how much time you will allot in future to learning from others and how much you will allot to learning from someone you can trust (like yourself for example)?

                          Are you starting to see behind the curtain yet? Are you starting to see through the smoke and mirrors?

                          Continually I see threads here from people who are frustrated as they search for people to teach them how to do stuff online.

                          If you are one of those people who have found only deception and frustration, here's a novel new approach you could take that I feel like posting every single time I see those type of threads.

                          Do it yourself.

                          Teach yourself how to use Google. Develop some initiative - it will take you far in business. Spend your time using the mountain of free online tools out there to reverse-engineer websites that are successful. Use your own eyes and brain to establish what works beyond doubt through observation, analysis and then your own tests.

                          Don't like being deceived? Then start seeing things as they really are. Have some pride and some backbone and don't allow yourself to be deceived.

                          Do you not believe that you have the ability to go out there and find the right lessons, solutions and data ON YOUR OWN that you need to create your own education and your own business?

                          Then you shouldn't even be considering going into business. Go away and come back when you have the belief.

                          Some people deceive, some people don't. Identify both and choose which ones you want to learn from. If you simply can't find the one group that you want to learn from, then ask whether you trust yourself. Then go and learn from him/her.

                          HTH.
                          Roger, that was a grand lesson in Philosophy, mate.

                          So, you're saying that marketers have no responsibility? And that if there are some who continue to deceive should be allowed while a few of us come out of the suckers' group? HTH = Happy To Help. Mix it with taking initiatives, and talk about (and try & do) helping the "suckers" (as many people here put it) out of the deception trap. That was another answer this thread attempted to find out.
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                          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                            Hi theultimate1,

                            HTH = hope this helps

                            So, you're saying that marketers have no responsibility? And that if there are some who continue to deceive should be allowed while a few of us come out of the suckers' group? HTH = Happy To Help. Mix it with taking initiatives, and talk about (and try & do) helping the "suckers" (as many people here put it) out of the deception trap.
                            Not really, no.

                            I was a bit long-winded, so the confusion is probably my fault.

                            In a nutshell - a large amount of the threads here are from people who are desperately seeking someone to show them how to do stuff.

                            I'm suggesting that they would possibly do better, more quickly, if they reminded themselves that they don't actually need anyone else to do anything for them - the tools and the knowledge they require to do it themselves are right in front of them and the benefits of this approach are huge - particularly in the context of self-development (many of them, like me, have spent time as employees and need to alter their mindset to make it easier to become successful in business - their initiative has been conditioned out of them.)

                            Add to this that they enter an environment that is obviously laden with misinformation and deceivers, yet they still seek out 'honest John' within that environment.

                            It's insanity to complain about encountering the obvious occurring and then believing that those complaints will change anything.

                            Instead - take a step back, learn from the experience and alter the approach entirely.
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                            • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
                              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                              Hi theultimate1,

                              HTH = hope this helps

                              Not really, no.

                              I was a bit long-winded, so the confusion is probably my fault.

                              In a nutshell - a large amount of the threads here are from people who are desperately seeking someone to show them how to do stuff.

                              I'm suggesting that they would possibly do better, more quickly, if they reminded themselves that they don't actually need anyone else to do anything for them - the tools and the knowledge they require to do it themselves are right in front of them and the benefits of this approach are huge - particularly in the context of self-development (many of them, like me, have spent time as employees and need to alter their mindset to make it easier to become successful in business - their initiative has been conditioned out of them.)

                              Add to this that they enter an environment that is obviously laden with misinformation and deceivers, yet they still seek out 'honest John' within that environment.

                              It's insanity to complain about encountering the obvious occurring and then believing that those complaints will change anything.

                              Instead - take a step back, learn from the experience and alter the approach entirely.
                              Hi Roger,

                              Thanks for clearing that one up. Now I understand what you were pointing at.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                    Content isn't normally in my vocabulary. There's always a little farther, a little harder, a little faster, a little more. Perfection is something you can never reach, but that's no reason to stop trying.

                    You can take that either way, but I can say from personal experience that if I eat a double quarter pounder half an hour before hitting the gym, my numbers go up. I can lift heavier, faster, and more.

                    And while I've experimented heavily with a lot of supplements... from the budget whey powder to the boutique hydrolysed stuff... nothing pumps up the volume like that half-pound of cheap government-surplus beef with a handful of onions.

                    YouTube - M.A.R.R.S. - Pump Up The Volume / A.R. Kane & Colourbox

                    And that's the beauty of this world. We're all different and all have
                    different priorities. I love music. Some people couldn't care less. My wife
                    loves to do crossword puzzles. If I never see one as long as I live it's
                    fine by me.

                    If we were all the same, this would be a very boring existence.

                    I can get more enjoyment out of coming up with a new guitar riff than
                    I could ever get from eating even a lobster dinner...and I love seafood.

                    Food has never been at the top of my list for things necessary to have
                    a happy life.

                    My Wife
                    My Daughter
                    Music
                    Games
                    TV
                    My Business

                    Those are the things that make me happy. And yes, my business is at
                    the bottom of the list, not because I don't enjoy it to an extent, but
                    because it's just that...business.

                    Five years ago, this list may have looked a little different. But priorities
                    change too. We talked about it at the FNC one night. Maslow's hierarchy
                    of needs.

                    When I was 16, my priorities were:

                    Sex
                    Music
                    Eating Junk Food

                    I had those 3 things and I was happy.

                    At age 52, music is the only thing left on the list.

                    When I'm 90, I'm sure my priorities will probably change again.

                    And I'm sure my wife's priorities will probably change as well, though
                    she's a pretty consistent person. In fact, she hasn't changed a bit since
                    I married her almost 26 years ago, while I've gone through one mid life
                    crisis after another.

                    And that's what makes this life so much fun. I never know what tomorrow
                    will bring or what I'll want to do with my life. Five years ago, I thought I'd
                    never create another piece of music again.

                    I've made 4 CDs alone since January and suddenly my business became
                    a hobby.

                    And now it's a business again with my diving into a brand new niche
                    that I would have never considered at one time.

                    Think I'm not having fun?

                    I'm sure just as much fun a the guy going to Mickey D's to scoff down
                    a Big Mac or whatever it is that gives him enjoyment.
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                    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Food has never been at the top of my list for things necessary to have a happy life.
                      Mine either. Food is fuel. You eat what produces the desired performance. It's no different than a car - when you drag race, you want higher performance in a shorter time, even though it's bad for your engine. You accept that it's bad for the engine, because if you pamper your engine, you're not going to cross the line first.

                      There's a whole quality of life issue. Everyone gets concerned about living longer. You know what? I don't want to be bored and miserable for an extra ten years.

                      "And if it gives me cancer when I'm eighty, I don't care; who the hell wants to be ninety anyway?"

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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                        There's a whole quality of life issue. Everyone gets concerned about living longer. You know what? I don't want to be bored and miserable for an extra ten years.
                        But that's just it. I'm far from bored. Know what I'm doing right now?

                        I'm listening to "The Complete Rubber Water"

                        That's every CD I've ever made all mixed together in like an Ipod kind of
                        thing that just mixes up the tunes and plays them in all kinds of funky
                        orders. I may hear a song from 2010 and then a song from 1999.

                        A little self indulgent? Maybe. But what's more fun than loving YOURSELF?

                        The day I DO get bored is the day I take a bottle of pills.

                        And I don't see that happening...EVER.
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              • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
                OMG.. it's called marketing for a reason!

                Marketing is selling. If selling is a 4 letter word to you, then don't take it up as a career/business.

                let's say I own a car dealership. A prospect is out on the lot looking at a car that caught their eye. My salesman goes out and tells them everything great about the car. But for whatever reason, the car in question just isn't a fit for what the person wants, so they lose interest in it.

                My salesman better darn well show them some other cars that might be more inline with what they want! If not, they're fired.

                If people do not get these basic concepts, then they are bound to struggle.

                Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

                P.P.S.: I would really appreciate the Gurus to come out in the open and answer this here. So, I request you to PLEASE write to your Guru friend via PM/e-mail/Skype/SMS and share the link to this thread with him, and ask him to help us solve this puzzle; 'coz if they're not coming out, anyone following this thread will become a skeptic again... and the Gurus sure don't want to lose on some sales here now, do they?! So, GURUS (and every big name/medium name/IM-related product marketer), come and build some trust for yourself and win fans/friends/customers/JV affiliates for life.
                oooooo.. they've been called out . lol
                here's the deal - they are successfull BECAUSE they have built trust, and have won fans/friends/customers/JV affiliates for life.
                They also know to totally ignore the sniveling and whinning on forums from self-loathing marketers.

                Originally Posted by CanuckWarrior View Post

                Personally, I have no problem being marketed to, it's the intent that makes all the difference. And yes, watching newbies get screwed over constantly for a buck does quite frankly frustrate me. I do realize that to some newbs are just suckers to squeeze every last cent from. But many are single parents, people who have lost their job, etc.
                I'm a single parent.. that doesn't make me penniless and stupid about where I spend my money.

                Most (but not all) people get up in arms when a senior citizen is bilked by telemarketing fraud. But screw a newb out of their last dime and hope with some IM piece of crap? Ooooh ... better raise a toast to that marketing genius.
                marketing frequency does not have any correlation to qualtiy, scams, etc.

                Guru spam never helps anybody except the guru and the merchant. It's easy to spot. A totally unrelated promo of the launch of the day, not targeted to my actual needs, would take me off focus to what I'm actually doing if I did buy it, but provides a great commission for the spam pimp and is also accompanied by an absurdly overvalued "bonus" for good measure. I buy through their links as often as I buy through Viagra spam links (i.e. never).
                now the name calling, etc, is getting beyond absurd.


                Originally Posted by Amy Carczak View Post

                If you were buying a car, would you guess the
                quality would be better from a company that
                launches a new model every month, sells 10,000
                and then moves on to a new model ...

                ...or would the company that produces the same
                basic car for 4 years straight maybe learn a
                little, improve a little each year and put out
                a better car in year 4 than they launched in
                week 1?
                ahh, but if you go to a dealership looking at a new Jeep Commander, but don't buy one, any successfull dealership will follow up with you and see if you might be interested in a Jeep Patriot, or maybe a used Commander instead. They'll also mail you discount coupons for oil changes every few months. And If you DID buy the Comander, they will send you service coupons regularly PLUS in 2.5 years start trying to get you in to buy a new vehicle again.
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                • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
                  Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

                  OMG.. it's called marketing for a reason!

                  Marketing is selling. If selling is a 4 letter word to you, then don't take it up as a career/business.

                  let's say I own a car dealership. A prospect is out on the lot looking at a car that caught their eye. My salesman goes out and tells them everything great about the car. But for whatever reason, the car in question just isn't a fit for what the person wants, so they lose interest in it.

                  My salesman better darn well show them some other cars that might be more inline with what they want! If not, they're fired.

                  If people do not get these basic concepts, then they are bound to struggle.



                  oooooo.. they've been called out . lol
                  here's the deal - they are successfull BECAUSE they have built trust, and have won fans/friends/customers/JV affiliates for life.
                  They also know to totally ignore the sniveling and whinning on forums from self-loathing marketers.



                  I'm a single parent.. that doesn't make me penniless and stupid about where I spend my money.



                  marketing frequency does not have any correlation to qualtiy, scams, etc.



                  now the name calling, etc, is getting beyond absurd.




                  ahh, but if you go to a dealership looking at a new Jeep Commander, but don't buy one, any successfull dealership will follow up with you and see if you might be interested in a Jeep Patriot, or maybe a used Commander instead. They'll also mail you discount coupons for oil changes every few months. And If you DID buy the Comander, they will send you service coupons regularly PLUS in 2.5 years start trying to get you in to buy a new vehicle again.
                  Looks like you've taken offence to this thread. Cool it Jason
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                  • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
                    Fascinating thread! I don't see how IM should be any different than other broad niches.

                    A self-improvement list probably offers products on self-esteem, confidence, success, parenting skills, career advancement, life skills, and dozens of other things that would be of interest to people who want to improve their lives.

                    Likewise with a weight loss list offering workout DVDs, diet plans, dumbbells, running shoes, different equipment, etc.

                    Everyone wants different things, even if they have the same broad interest in a topic.

                    Personally I LIKE getting different kinds of offers - how boring would it be if Marketer A only ever talked about ONE product that you either already bought or have no interest in ever buying?

                    Wendy
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                    • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
                      A lot of interesting responses here, with a lot of different perspectives. In the end, it all comes down to value, doesn't it? So long as the marketer (call him or her "guru" if you must), consistently offers value in the product he's promoting, I'm good with it. Heck, there's a WF member who offers such value, he could send me an offer twice a day, and if I could afford it, I'd go for it. Because of Value.
                      There are other marketers who send out regular promotions that are essentially just the same, warmed-over junk. Do I look at their offers? Sure. Even a blind hog can stumble over an acorn every once in a while. But I don't consider them as carefully as those offered by marketers who pride themselves on offering value.
                      Bottom line: I enjoy being marketed to. I just don't like junk.
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            • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Can we all just agree that fast food is no good for you...period?
              Since we all end up dead eventually, primarily due to the wear on our bodies due to turning the food we eat (no matter what it is) into energy - can we just all agree that NO food is good for you if you take a long enough timeline into account?

              Hot dogs taste good.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ty Neal
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      If the Big Mac is so good, why does McDonald's have chicken and salads and french fries?
      LOL, That's a very good point
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Medley
    This is an extremely interesting thread to find in a marketing forum, and frankly this newbie finds some of the responses totally surprising.

    I was also surprised to read through this whole thread and not see these two words: Caveat Emptor... Let the buyer beware!

    Everyone chooses their own marketing strategy. Some people offer outstanding value, some average, some pure trash. It is up to the buyer to do their due diligence when shopping the many offers available to insure they are getting fair value. That should not really be a tough assignment in a field where research is KING.

    It didn't take me long on this forum to realize that I had to implement some simple buying criteria to insure I was buying true value. I made sure I read all of the comments on a particular product thread. I looked at the guarantee, the support, the comments, and who made them, as well as future update potential. Then I would research the person providing the offer because it is my responsibility to be an educated consumer.

    If someone I bought from was updating their offer on a weekly basis and charging for it, I would simply ask for a refund of the original product... but thats just me I guess.

    So why do some people market this way?

    I think Jim Rohn sums it up best: "I wouldn't sign up for that course." It is what it is.

    I love this forum!

    Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author pana
    money money..
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  • Profile picture of the author UMS
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    They need money every month. Those Italian cars are expensive.
    LOL! That's the best and most concisive answer I've read.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dhira
    Gurus set a monthly income goal and flogging/fleecing the herd is sometimes necessary...
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
    I have a different take.

    Don't hate, participate.

    Get knowledge (there is nothing new under the sun...there really is not).

    Put your twist on it.

    Show people your twist. Build a list. (Hey that rhymed)

    Become an expert.

    Provide value to your list on a continual basis.

    Then you too, will be a guru (at least to those on your list).

    But like the Gurus, if you don't provide value; you will only sell one product and the marketplace will expunge you from the rolls.

    If they irritiate you (Guru product launches), do what I do every couple of months; get off of all the lists until you produce something.

    CT


    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

    Hello Warriors,

    Sure this thread is open to all of you to respond with your thoughts. The title was just to get the attention of everybody, and especially the Internet Marketers who bombard (no pun intended :p) us with the brand new shiny product/software/package every other week or month.

    If your previous system was so good and it made people a lot of money, then why not continue to promote the same one? Why do you promote another offer, whether yours or from an affiliate?

    I understand that there are people ready to buy the NEW version, but is that the only reason?

    I'm also sure this question might have come up here many a time earlier, but I don't think there's been a convincing response to it from the big guys, as yet.

    So, please... share your thoughts here and help me decrypt why I might want to do the same (if convinced about it) in the future, if I enter the IM market at all.

    Thanks in advance
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  • Profile picture of the author willmartinapj
    Because they can, why not. Enough saps order because of who they are more than what the product is.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Thorsett
      Originally Posted by willmartinapj View Post

      Because they can, why not. Enough saps order because of who they are more than what the product is.
      This, exactly. I buy any book or product that Dan Kennedy sells.

      I don't think I'm a sap. He's more than worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
    People above calling this thread non-sensical don't see what the aim of this thread was in the first place. I also shared a real-life example that occurred just 72 hours ago. What I'm asking is - Why isn't there any consistency? First you teach me to make a million bucks, then you say I'll hold you by the hand and show you how to earn your first $500 online. This new launch hasn't even really taken off and you come back to me with a product message with the subject-line "The 'Local Marketing' Lie...", which you and everybody else out there have already pitched me on. Or did your First $500 Online coaching program fail on launch day (not possible, as I see it) or what?

    That's what I'm talking about... Go ahead and promote a hundred products to me and thousands others. But, on this thread, one needs to be able to sense the sense in my question... I'm interested in the consistency (or lack thereof) part.

    As for my "inabilities" to differentiate one product/offering from another, that's fairly subjective, both on your end CDarklock, and mine too. We'll leave it at that... Peace

    Oh and yes, I'm not saying that 'GURU X' is out there to cheat us. Again, the issue is on consistency.

    P.S.: I've cited 2 examples in my previous posts and neither has been answered or even addressed to, as yet. Maybe you find them irrelevant/stupid or maybe there's no better arguement against my questions. May it be the former, if that makes everybody happy... Yea, right?! That'd kill the purpose of the forum. We're here to debate, discuss and solve it out. And I'm sure I'm not the only person with a question like that... Now, if we're saying that hundreds of other similarly thinking people are full of non-sense, that's another story

    Plus, since this is a marketing forum, that's why this question comes up here. Does that sound not so non-sensical?
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    • Profile picture of the author David Leyson
      I see the sense in your point. Everyone gets overwhelmed by the amount of get so called magic formula systems out there.

      However what is a marketer supposed to do, sell one product and flog it to death? imagine if a shoe company only sold one style of shoe because they said " well this show does everything a shoe needs to do." but some customers might not like the look or feel of that shoe. In the same way you may buy a marketers product that in theory is great it just doesn't suit your style.

      Should the marketer then say to himself " i have already sold to him I would hate to sell him anything else." and take you off his list of potetial buers?

      A quick scenario for you,
      I buy a $297 product that promises to make me my first $500 online, I then implement those strategies and I make $100. Ok I didn't make $500 but the product did work. It just wasn't really my style. So i take some ideas and throw the system aside.
      Perhaps I now realise though that my ad copy isn't that great. If that marketer then promoted a product to me that promised to show me the A-Z of copy I would be likely to buy that also. And if it delivered I would be happy. And so it goes on
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  • Profile picture of the author brieat
    Uh -- why wouldn't they? If they have a profilo of 25 products that makes them $10k a month each or whatever, they'll keep adding more products to add to the profit stream.
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  • Profile picture of the author fsweet
    Of course it's the money and they know that once you are on their list you will get offer after offer...ad nauseum

    We're sitting ducks!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sandycmy
    What A question ! -- Good one for a discussion, I think that's what the warriorforum is for !

    Gurus want to make money like anybody, then newbies want to be guru's someday.

    My View: There are quite a few warriors who give incredible value - which are reliable, based on real world and works when applied. Their commitment behind the product or service is pretty obvious.

    The other lot -- who teach cheap tricks need to be addressed seriously - more than losing money, people get disgusted by the nature of the circle.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

    As for my "inabilities" to differentiate one product/offering from another, that's fairly subjective, both on your end CDarklock, and mine too.
    Not really.

    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

    If your previous system was so good and it made people a lot of money, then why not continue to promote the same one? Why do you promote another offer, whether yours or from an affiliate?
    The underlying assumption here is that all systems are interchangeable, and that "made people a lot of money" is the measure of a system's value.

    Both of these assumptions are stunningly inaccurate. So much so, that a detailed and intelligent response to your question is probably wasted.

    So I've made a few casual remarks about McDonald's and golf clubs.

    You don't have an answer to this question because you don't want one. If you were trying to answer it at all, you wouldn't need to ask, because it's pretty flippin' obvious what the answer to that question is. You're just trying to stir up trouble and start an argument.

    Have fun with that.
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  • Profile picture of the author chili
    They make some huge bucks when they launch products.

    Sell affiliate stuff in between

    Got us paying monthly, while they feed more, top quality (worthless info) at us
    which, solidifies they are the "expert" and we put them on a pedestal.
    Waiting for there next "big product".

    Misinformation, carefully structured modules, Thud factor they're all here...Publishing tricks!!

    I agree and pretty much do business just like these guys. But, do not believe in sabotaging
    my customers. Believe it or not, I actually want to help them get rich...

    Much Love Warriors
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  • This is me teaching you all what the gurus teach in EVERY course...

    1. You need to research your market.
    a. keyword research using this.
    b. there are tools/resources that can help, and greatly improve your research. SEO Elite, SEO Spyglass, SEOMOZ, Clickbank are just a few.
    c. find something that a lot of people look for, but with little competition. make sure it's monetarily viable by checking for ppc ads.
    d. make sure the searchers are looking for a solution to a 'need it now' problem, they're easier to sell to.

    2. Find or create a product to market to the searchers.
    a. Find an affiliate product to sell, or create your own. You can use Elance to hire someone for $500 to create a product for you to your specifications. Just make sure they know what they're talking about.
    b. Make sure your product is a solution, not an answer. It needs to truly SOLVE a problem. If it's just an answer or a suggestion, it's worthless. People need, and are searching for you to solve their problems. Call it laziness, helplessness, or whatever - point is, they'll buy from you.

    3. You need a website, whether your own, or a web 2.0 it depends on your needs.

    a. your own site you control, and can do what you want - but it costs money. pick a brand name, or your own name if you're not going to be shady. Gain corporate image. keyword urls can come later with subdomains, and individual pages.
    b. web 2.0 can be deleted at any time, but is free.
    (web 2.0 does NOT allow affiliate marketing)

    4. Get your Copywriting (ad copy) down
    a. sense of urgency, dire call to action, create an emotional trigger response. pretty pictures, pretty formatting. make it sound like you can't live without it. watch 'pitchmen'. It's cheesy, but they make millions.. I'm less concerned with cheeziness when directly marketing, and more concerned with selling something that works for lots of money.
    b. you can also hire a copywriter. don't be a cheap ******* though. $50 copy will make you one $10 sale for every $1000 you put out in advertising. $1000 copy will make you $1000 for every $10 you put out in advertising. Elance or WarriorForum. Look for references.


    5. Test with PPC
    a. Pay Per Click can be expensive, but the whole point is to narrow it down to low competitive keywords that convert to sales.
    b. Once you've honed in what works, go for the lowest competition highest converting term and target via SEO.
    c. Split test to raise your conversions. Once you have a decent opt-in, leads to sales conversion. Stick with it, and test new features... Leave what works, change what doesn't. Make millions. Send me a check.


    6. SEO the sh*t out of your site
    a. Pick your term that works, build a subdomain using the keyword that worked the best (picked out from the PPC testing)
    b. Get your onpage optimization gangsta.
    c. Start building backlinks (I recommend SENuke - but for the LOVE OF GOD watch the videos before you start...)


    7. Supplement Your Marketing
    a. Joint Ventures (found here on warrior forum)
    b. Twitter, Facebook etc. (don't spam, but be cool, and find people who need what you want - *aka: more research*)

    c. sell your sh*t on clickbank and other affiliate networks.

    8. Send me checks for making you rich.
    I'm Shane Hunter. You can find me at www.shanehunter.org

    That truly is ALL anyone EVER teaches. There, now you don't have to buy anything, ever again. =)

    oh. and you're welcome. this info has cost me thousands over the years... i challenge anyone to deny this process as working model. yup, there's other ways. yup, you may even have a better way. but this way works 50% of the time 100% of the time
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  • Profile picture of the author paulino
    Hi Ken, you made my laugh of the day jajajajaja.
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  • Profile picture of the author belgianguy
    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

    Why do you promote another offer, whether yours or from an affiliate?
    Because people always want the next big thing that will make them money and are willing to spend money to make more money
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  • Profile picture of the author CianMcCarthy
    Banned
    Because people are willing to buy every *hot* new thing and love hype and hate to miss out (notice how they nearly all have deadlines)
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  • Profile picture of the author JimmyS
    Everything changes overtime that's why I can't see the whole point of arguing over new releases. New releases with new innovations will become a good marketing tool that will jive to the new trends of the internet today. So there is nothing wrong about it. And after all, the end part of every bargain is you. If you think the whole thing is just a crap then just ignore it....
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    • Profile picture of the author jdenc
      I think there are things going unconsidered here.

      Now as a member of the War Room you get some looks at free offers with no opt in. However I always opt in if given the chance as the guy has given me something and I am willing to give him one of my email addresses. Seems fair. So I get the download key and do my thing. Some of that stuff is awesome by the way. Anyway some of those guys start killing me instantly with all these offers I can't live with out. Of course if I were truly new to marketing and had just bought that WSO I'd be a bit skeptical and confused. Why did I buy that if this is better? If it isn't better why have you sent it to me before I can digest and comprehend the last system? The average newb looking for a road map doesn't think about McD's or Wal-Mart he just thinks what have I gotten myself into and what now?

      And some of these guys handle it really well. They follow up with helpful hints and tips related to what you downloaded. Not the next big thing and the next and the next. Guess who has a better shot at getting me to get something else from them? There is a right way and a wrong way to market IMO. I think a lot of folks have learned the wrong way. Not everyone is a fish on the hook with their credit card at the ready. And those that are fuel the 97% fail rate. These marketers help make sure it stays that high. Value added gets my attention every time and I have found in my own sales life it works better that way as well. Add some value first then come looking for your next check.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gladiator
    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

    QUESTION TO THE GURUS: Why do you promote a new product every month?
    I think maybe We all know why!!

    I sell to your list - you sell to my list!

    Sell the sizzle not the steak! Put up a great sales letter or video allot of hype and rinse and repeat.

    What happens when you rinse? You squeeze all you can out of it!!

    But the crazy thing is that sometimes a guru will sell you a $2,000 course that would take months to learn and then email you 10 other offers selling other Guru's products and services!

    That is my take.

    Andre
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  • Profile picture of the author thetruth23
    Perhaps to make more money, but more so because they discover a niche within their niche.

    Unless they are literally releasing a complete rehash of whatever there first product was. But surely people would see this and lose trust in them...
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I actuall agree with many of the points in this thread on BOTH (or more) sides of this issue. Most of the posts, however are talking about apples and oranges. Some responses are referring to legitimate "products" and others are referring to make money schemes.

    I may be wrong but I think the OP had make money schemes in mind. If that is right I believe he has a very legitimate question that was probably meant somewhat sarcastically.

    I am on a list of this guy that promotes a new get rich quick scheme literally every day. I have stayed on the list because it is hilarious. Each new opportunity is going to change your life and make you rich with no work at all. If he ever made 1% of what he claims he would be a billionare in a week but then here comes the next offer.

    He obviously must be sucking in newbies right and left which is sad. Yes, people are making their own choice to join a program or not but I could not live with myself.

    Many of the owners of the GRQ programs are doing the same thing as he is. Advertise a secret pre-launch... then a public pre-launch... "officially" launch and get even more people in... shut down and start a new one.

    This has nothing to do with what most real IMers in this forum are doing but it is a huge problem in the Internet world.
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    • Profile picture of the author theultimate1
      Originally Posted by JMS View Post

      I actuall agree with many of the points in this thread on BOTH (or more) sides of this issue. Most of the posts, however are talking about apples and oranges. Some responses are referring to legitimate "products" and others are referring to make money schemes.

      I may be wrong but I think the OP had make money schemes in mind. If that is right I believe he has a very legitimate question that was probably meant somewhat sarcastically.

      I am on a list of this guy that promotes a new get rich quick scheme literally every day. I have stayed on the list because it is hilarious. Each new opportunity is going to change your life and make you rich with no work at all. If he ever made 1% of what he claims he would be a billionare in a week but then here comes the next offer.

      He obviously must be sucking in newbies right and left which is sad. Yes, people are making their own choice to join a program or not but I could not live with myself.

      Many of the owners of the GRQ programs are doing the same thing as he is. Advertise a secret pre-launch... then a public pre-launch... "officially" launch and get even more people in... shut down and start a new one.

      This has nothing to do with what most real IMers in this forum are doing but it is a huge problem in the Internet world.
      This was exactly my point, put forth in the form of a question.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Originally Posted by theultimate1 View Post

    Hello Warriors,

    Sure this thread is open to all of you to respond with your thoughts. The title was just to get the attention of everybody, and especially the Internet Marketers who bombard (no pun intended :p) us with the brand new shiny product/software/package every other week or month.

    If your previous system was so good and it made people a lot of money, then why not continue to promote the same one? Why do you promote another offer, whether yours or from an affiliate?

    I understand that there are people ready to buy the NEW version, but is that the only reason?

    I'm also sure this question might have come up here many a time earlier, but I don't think there's been a convincing response to it from the big guys, as yet.

    So, please... share your thoughts here and help me decrypt why I might want to do the same (if convinced about it) in the future, if I enter the IM market at all.

    Thanks in advance
    hehe,

    I'm not a Guru, but it's to make money. It's like any other niche, we pick our audience and send them offers. 'Gurus' Target internet/affiliate marketers and people new to the scene - which is probably why they receive so much hate
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  • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
    You might as well ask fashion designers why they create a different collection every year or a car sales man why he sells different types and models of cars. You are an internet marketer and you should be more worried about how you can also sell as many products as the so called gurus if you promote what i need i will buy, and i did not start making any real money online until i bought the right tools and courses that i needed. Internet marketers promote a different product all the time because they are "INTERNET MARKETERS" so while you sit down here and ask why they promote , they are out there doing what they do best promoting and making money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Smith Williams
    To create traffic to your site and make more money.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    I have no bothered reading the replies but it's obvioius isn't it? More products = more money (to them) That's all there is to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    yeah that's about the be end of it all :-)

    But somehow, in the IM world, it's starting to make me sick (maybe I'll start making myself sick in the future, who knows! :p). I mean... consider an example:
    'Guru X' promotes his affiliate marketing product telling me I can make up to $1M a year. Right the next month, he comes up with a website flipping product that says I can make an additional $10K a month.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    only because it's based on copy that basically says "you will make at least $10,000 a month with 2 minutes work..." What do you think? They buy because they love the guru? LOL

    Nobody is forcing them to buy. They want to!
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    I would never know how each month can bring in more subscribers for me so promoting products on a monthly basis is one perfect strategy to grab the sales consecutively once every new and interested buy arrives.

    Also, people are always "hungry" for the latest products ever created so if they did not find my previous product effective enough, they might always have to look at "what's next" and therefore, I would place a sale.
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    • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
      Some people rebrand their products which I respect.

      But those who do nothing but promote product after product that's supposedly the next best thing I've not got respect for.

      They do it because they're money hungry. Oh and because they can.

      It's weird that the first thing they sold you was meant to make you mega rich isn't it?
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      • Profile picture of the author Ruth Hendrickson
        The reason gurus promote a new product every month is because they have an agreement to promote each other's products. When you're in the "club" you've got to promote the products of the other members, then when your turn comes everybody promotes your product. It's basically like joint venturers doing projects together. Each person knows when he (or she) has a new product to put on the market, he has a ready-made system to launch it and make a good chunk of money. And all his buddies (affiliates) make money along with him. If you've noticed, the system works really well.
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Intrepreneur View Post

        Some people rebrand their products which I respect.

        But those who do nothing but promote product after product that's supposedly the next best thing I've not got respect for.

        They do it because they're money hungry. Oh and because they can.


        It's weird that the first thing they sold you was meant to make you mega rich isn't it?
        And this is wrong because?

        Everybody in here wants to make massive profits, thats why your here right?

        So why get upset when people do just what is required to make massive profits.

        There is a 1000 (probably more) different ways to make a success on line no reason at all why they cant promote all 1000 of them.

        I have just been going through my promotions diary for july, im signed up for 4 different product launches all of them different, all of them will work for someone.

        The people on my list will make a decision when they see them and say either yep i want this one, or thanks for letting me know about it but i dont need this. I have no idea which people on my list will want which product, so everyone gets a notification and they can decide for themself.

        some of the promotions i will be a top 10 promoter some i will not be even on the list

        And every promotion done for someone is leverage with that person for when I want to release a new product.

        This is business, and I fail to see why its even a discussion point
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          And this is wrong because?

          Everybody in here wants to make massive profits, thats why your here right?

          So why get upset when people do just what is required to make massive profits.

          There is a 1000 (probably more) different ways to make a success on line no reason at all why they cant promote all 1000 of them.

          I have just been going through my promotions diary for july, im signed up for 4 different product launches all of them different, all of them will work for someone.

          The people on my list will make a decision when they see them and say either yep i want this one, or thanks for letting me know about it but i dont need this. I have no idea which people on my list will want which product, so everyone gets a notification and they can decide for themself.

          some of the promotions i will be a top 10 promoter some i will not be even on the list

          And every promotion done for someone is leverage with that person for when I want to release a new product.

          This is business, and I fail to see why its even a discussion point

          Robert, while I don't always agree with you (in this case I do) you are a
          true businessperson.

          No wonder you're so successful.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShaqirHussyin
    they promote all these NEW products,
    because they know that every single person wants to make money online
    and so this is that fastest and easiest way to cash in...

    the question you need to ask yourself is that are you a producer or a consumer???

    once i realised i had to produce my friends, that's wheen everything changed i started watching webinars and implementing everthung that i could to ensure my online successs...


    dont get sucked in, and even if you do, IMPLEMENT and take massive action,

    "it" sitting on ur shelf wont make u money, go out there and start creating!!!

    Shaqir H
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    I'm thinking why marketers (sales people) keep marketing is they may have a family and lifestyle to support. You know pay the bills sort of thing. And I'm sure a lot of them want to get filthy rich if they can.

    However, I'm also sure there are those that really want to help people, support their family, pay the bills and get filthy rich while doing it or at least comfortable. But it still comes down to one thing they are marketers; period.

    You and I are marketers are at least hoping to become one, otherwise we wouldn't be reading and posting in this thread or for that matter be in this forum. Which brings me to this.

    Each and every time I reply to or start a thread I'm marketing myself and basically so are you. And I keep marketing to the same list, WF members, over and over. But each time it is another subject (read new product).

    Now ask yourself this question, does this make you and I a bad person for marketing our self? Because a great deal of the time we may well be talking about the "Next Silver Bullet" or the next best system.

    IMO there is nothing wrong with the marketer promoting his 'next best thing', as long as it's done in a ethical manner. The decision to buy or not is mine and mine alone.

    Ken Leatherman

    The Old Geezer
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  • Profile picture of the author fsweet
    Great Thread!!
    The bottom line is that they know how to do it well and IT MAKES MONEY!
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  • Profile picture of the author scottmanesis
    I am going to give the simple answer

    The Goo Roos do it to you only because you believe in THEM more than you do YOU. Therefore it makes sense for them to drop more Goo on You! There is nothing NEW that these gurus are putting out at all . You can watch this right now. Jeff Walker is relaunching his Launch Formula , but Jonathan Budd just launched MLM launch formula, which is Jeff Walkers product with a different bow and a different pretty face, the only thing that makes these two products not IDENTICAL is the dude who is doing the launch videos and the three letters MLM, the content is IDENTICAL. Imagine that? Also, it was once called Mass Control when Frank Kern released the same product.

    So the answer is simply, the Goo Roos do launch after launch for product after product because people don't smarten up and keep falling for the same crap over and over again. You can't blame the Goo Roo.
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  • Profile picture of the author Swiftace
    Because they get their own bills monthly.
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  • Profile picture of the author battery4laptop
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    They need money every month. Those Italian cars are expensive.
    That's right, because of money.
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  • Profile picture of the author rparikh
    Every body want to make the money and gurus know that they can sale this products easily .

    As they have create the trust and they have large email database and people are just the serial buyers who just are just addicting to purchase the products and think that they will become a millionaire on one day !!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Well take a hint from Microsoft, they don't need to create a new product they can just update Vista, but the ethos of Microsoft is forever making new products, that way they can charge their customers, a whopping new figure
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  • Profile picture of the author ayu-id
    Well, I'm not a guru. But these are the reasons that I'll give you if you ask me

    1. To make money

    Let's admit it. The number one reason people come up with a new product every month is to sell it to other people and make more money. That's what internet marketers do to buy groceries, paying their bills, etc.

    2. To help other people

    This reason is as strong as the previous one. If they don't think money is all important, then helping people is the key that motivating them to create or promoting a new product every month.

    3. To build their lists

    A new product every month will attract new buyers to their lists and keep previous buyers happy.

    Hope this helps
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Wilson
    I did a survey of my inbox a while back and counted up the number of promotional emails I had recieved in the previous 30 days from the various Internet Marketers I was subscribed to.

    Before I began I had two or three guy's names in my mind that I was thinking, "I bet that guy sent more emails than anyone else", or "that guy HAS to be in the top 3".

    When I finished counting I was surprised to find that those people were not sending me as many emails as I thought.

    There were several people who had a tally of more than 30 promotional emails in the 30 day period! Guys whose emails I regularly opened, some of who I had bought from during the month.

    The reason I didn't feel as though those guys were spamming me was because their subject lines were LESS hyped and more friendly than the "HURRY", "Nearly Gone", "Last Chance", "GO, Go, Go" subject lines the "Big Boys" seemed to be routinely using.

    Maybe it's just me, but most of those hypey emails never got opened. A lot of the other ones did.

    Mark.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Curtis
    Many internet marketers promote a new product every month because they have formed a collusion, where "you do me...I'll do you" is the game and it is carefully and skillfully all planned and scheduled out in "brilliant" fashion.

    "Heck...you promote MY product and I'll promote YOUR product even if it's absolute crap! I'll even tell my list (who trusts and believes everything I say - haha) just how good it is. Oh....and by the way...when you tell them how much money you made...you don't have to mention that you spent $20,000 on Adwords to get that amount of money...just leave that part out."

    Times are getting tough, sales are down, sending an email is not as effective as it was 2 years ago, and so some of these IMers are getting more and more desperate in their tactics.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Wilson
    The other side of this is that, with the depth of email analytics available to marketers today, you are basically just getting what works because we test the hell out of everything!

    So if a marketer has split tested "Please buy if you can spare the change" vs "BUY NOW OR BE A LOOSER FOREVER" ... and the second one wins, guess what the next email you get is going to be like!

    Mark.
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