Matt Cutts - Please Help Me Save Google Several $Billion

I am having a hard time getting whether your post is serious, sarcastic or just promotional.

Does this loophole your talking about involve an SEO trick? Or is it solely a security issue?

In one sentence you say it is a security issue and in the other you say it will save google billions.

If it is an SEO method, who cares?

It is our job to improve our rankings and their job to ensure that the search results are to their liking and satisfaction. Its not my job (unless it is a security issue, I think most would help) to help them refine their anti-gaming precautions.

Sure, I dont want to see them go under or suffer any longterm damage.

But I would imagine that a company as big as google will eventually figure it out if it anything serious.

Anyways, though, I dont know how to get you in contact with him. Sorry.

I hate that saying. :p

you sound like a 2012 doomer!!!

Thank you. I was aware of his blog, but assumed that
he gets approached so often with off the wall ideas, etc.,
that I would likely need a personal intro to get his attention.

I introduce people all the time to people who are hard
to get in contact with unless you know an inside contact.

Your skepticism makes sense.

Willie

Hi Steve,

I write expert titles without giving it too much thought.
If the title doesn't grab the right person's attention,
then it's useless.

I was looking for someone who had a foolproof way
of getting in touch with him.

Matt may not be the person I need to talk to but if
not, then maybe a Google rep will notice the post
and point me in the right direction.

Willie

if it is this big would they put the info in your hands?

Send me the printed report too

This thread deserves a show tune!

No, you're little bit wrong Sir Willie. So, let me correct you please.

Money is a powerful motivator but not the most powerful
Money is a very strong motivator but not the strongest

I'm happy that this thread has helped me to know what motivates some of us most.

We don't have to cheat anyone to be rich. Yes, there are some dubious rich people yet there are many people out there who are genuinely rich. It's a matter of choice.

All of us must not cut corners.

Not a problem Steve.

Thanks for the compliments and thank you wife

I'm sure that this thread will eventually get Matt's attention
or someone else who can take a serious look at the issue.

Willie

"and my wife is always right"

Name one married man who does not have this problem

That would probably depend upon how it was resolved.
For example, it might not be prudent to describe what
the fixed vulnerability was if that could potentially
point out other holes.

Willie

Why, of course not. Once they get in touch with Google, they will be sworn to secrecy, and will be forced to sign numerous non-disclosure agreements...all because these two guys have stumbled onto something so powerful, it can destroy Google, and very likely all life as we know it.

In the meantime though, you can sign up for their seo services, because this little episode proves they really know their seo.

lol....

Willie, Mike started a thread about this breach earlier today and my response was then and is now, if he has produced a solution to a breach, unidentified by Google as he believes it to be, his FIRST step should be to PATENT that solution.

All this talk about saving Google and site owners billions of dollars and not being motivated by money is really touching. That said, Google is a business and they charge for ALL services rendered [GOOG did 7.3 Billion this 3rd QTR] and when they need or are required to pay for something... they can afford it, so let them pay.

IMHO, Mike, needs to get an attorney and get this Patent started. In my mind, it would be inexplicably unfathomable to contact anyone about this matter until he has got that Patent in hands.

Giles, the Crew Chief

I'll ask them not to impact you stuff Michael

Willie

That number doesn't get you to the decision makers


Willie

I try really hard not to insult people when they say stupid things, but this has to be one of the more idiotic statements I've seen here.

Yes, Willie really is a good marketer, but that doesn't mean he deceives people, and it doesn't mean you have to deceive people to be a good marketer.

He isn't an idiot. He was just posting here asking anyone if they knew a way of getting in contact with Matt in person.

Wow, cynicism is running pretty high on the old forum tonight isn't it?

Well for my money, I'm betting on Willie being the kind of marketer that he has demonstrated multiple times, not only here on the Warrior Forum but everywhere else for that matter. That would be someone with the highest integrity and principles. Willie is one of those people who walks the talk.

Personally, I'd be hard pressed to question his motives here. But that's just me.
Cheers,
Jim

I'm still waiting for someone I recognise as knowing something about security to weigh in on this loophole.

A week doesn't go by that Microsoft doesn't get a report about some massive security hole in their software which boils down to "I can break into any system with this bug. All I have to do is convince an administrator to set up a login with administrator privileges, and then..."

And then nothing.

It's like saying "I know how to make a million dollars. All I need to do is get someone to give me a million dollars, and then..."

Well, and then you have a million dollars.

DUH.

Seriously, otherwise intelligent people fall for demonstrations that are flat-out ignorant if you know anything at all about the technology. It's just like the old stupid web trick of saying "Look how easily I can break into your computer!" with a file: link to C:\, and when people click it they see the root folder of their own hard disk.

Except you didn't break into it. You, the owner of the web server, do not see the root folder of their hard drive. They, the owner of the web browser, see the root folder of their hard drive. Which they are allowed to do, because it's their computer.

Every single "massive loophole" I've seen explained has been something like this. It's been someone who doesn't know WTF they are doing, completely misunderstanding how much of an impact something has, and thinking the things they can do to their own stuff could be done to anyone's.

That doesn't mean there aren't massive loopholes. It just means that whenever someone jumps up and says "I found one!" - well, odds are he's full of crap. Especially if he won't say what he found.

My favorite was how you could crash the machine by inserting a specially-modified USB drive. Raymond Chen observed that you could probably crash the machine just as effectively by jamming a fork in the USB drive, which would be a lot more accessible to the average vandal. Less soldering and EE education required, you know.

He's been clear from the beginning that he thinks it could destroy any company and cost them millions, but I honestly don't see how a loophole in Google could do that. There's just too much hype around this for me to think it's at all likely, plus an assertion that he's known about it for two years and never said anything until now but Google has done nothing to fix it.

Honestly, think about it.

Someone walks up to you and says "I know about a massive security hole that could make me millions, but I have told nobody about it and done nothing with it for two years, and now - since nobody has even tried to fix this problem - I have decided to start selling my services protecting people from it... but I can't tell you any details, because you probably can't be trusted."

Do you believe him?

Caliban, actually, this has been the funniest thing I've heard all night...

Me thinks a butter knife would have worked even better...

[ROTFLMAO]

Giles, the Crew Chief

Willie,

Daniel has an excellent point here.

Don't you know when you write articles, you want to demonstrate the pain to the prospect, stick your finger in the wound and twist it around...

In doing so, when the prospect feels the pain, they will be more likely to take the action you want them to take...

The fastest way to get Google to respond is to let them feel the pain of what they have so far failed to realize...

LOL

Wow, now you know that would be a cool way to get PR< unless its illegal, that is, but if it is just a loop hole, as the limited suggestion states, then yes, document the loophole, go on with a sweet video and then get network coverage, (national TV) if its really that big,)

I mean you could be sitting in the chair man, being interviewed by the old man himself, have a cool easy to remember website, you plug while you revealing the legal but now closed loophole, but yes, I am sort of with most of the crowd here,

I have been a professional in business development for several large corporations, if you are really serious, and your theory or loop hole is a real and verifiable threat and or some other serious issue, that could be presented in a professional manner, then getting the right people to listen is not that hard.

Consider line6 and bose, two nicely compatible companies, the Pod product merger was put together using emails and three phone calls and one intro, no one ever met in person, until line6 and bose put together the proposal, documents.

Like many others here we all respect the OP, usually when putting together a PR move one would consider that openly discussing a loophole would not be the way to go about getting serious attention.

Why on earth would Willie have to create a post like this to get someone to visit his site? I'm sure he's far above that...

But I don't sell a Google Loophole Product.

Actually, my favorite Google Loophole is to post to my blog on
BlogTalkRadio. Visit Willie Crawford Teaches REAL Internet Marketing | Internet Radio | Blog Talk Radio
'
Notice that half of the blog posts there have NOTHING to do with
shows that I've hosted, then check some of the phrases in those
posts at Google.

But that's not a loophole, that's just posting on a site that Google
seems to crawl A LOT.

Willie

No, it's not a marketing ploy. So, I didn't want it to go viral,
just get some more direct contacts at G.

Willie

Would you have faith in a Company if their Loophole could cause severe damage to your business? Don't you think that would have a knock on effect in the revenue Google generates from advertising?

If the search listings don't give people what they're looking for, they'll stop looking at Google and go somewhere else.

If enough people stop looking at Google and go somewhere else, the value of advertising on Google will drop.

If the value of advertising on Google drops enough, advertisers will stop advertising on Google.

If enough advertisers stop advertising on Google, Google will lose money.

If Google loses enough money, it will cost them billions.

So in the end, yes, Google does make money from search listings.

Are you surprised that he isn't quick to share this with you?

Why don't you direct your contacts to this thread? That should suffice

LOL, the problem I bet is that you could look at the document in transit...

You and I are both programmers, so us handling the document might be considered a huge risk.

Lol so lets suppose its true?
Do you honestley think the guy is going to share a document with another im'er Who know's a "Google engineer"?
Come on that will not happen!
If Google are intrested they will speak to Willie and see if they value it as a concern.
But dvduval if you had a huge secret would you share with us warriors??
mmm probably not

ROFLMAO... You have to be kidding or you don't know of Willie Crawford.
Sorry for laughing...:rolleyes:

There are very few people on the Internet that I take advise from and
Willie is one from whom I would. Just for the sake of argument let me help
you learn more about Willie Crawford. <-Click There

Hope that Helps,
Have a Great Day!

My concern is not with Willie's wisdom or intelligence or advice, but with his level of technical expertise. Neither Mike nor Willie have demonstrated to me that they have a solid and reliable understanding of real-world computer security at the low level they're claiming these loopholes exist.

I am not prepared to say they don't have sufficient understanding. Many very large and very real problems have been found in complex systems by comparative laymen, and it's often the perspective of a novice that allows these loopholes to be seen - because an expert may be looking right by them. There's an old example of this that most of us have seen:


Most people understand they're looking for a problem, and see immediately that the word "IS" occurs twice. Then they stop looking, and completely overlook that the last word is "FIEND" - not "FRIEND" as expected.

However, young children usually find both problems. They are not conditioned, as most adults are, to believe that when you are looking for a problem on a test there will only be one.

So I'm unwilling to say these loopholes are definitely bogus. I think the chances of them being real are very, very slim... but I am really not willing to be the guy who calls a real report bogus just because the chances are low.

I didn't offer any advice in this post, only ask if anyone knew an expedient
way to get direct access to someone who could at least reach
someone with decision making authority in a company.

As far as credibility, people come to me when they want to make
major decisions where a bad one could cost them a small fortune.
They also come to me often asking who they can trust, and revealing
things that they don't want shared. Most don't even require a
non-disclosure agreement to share things with me that could easily
put them out of business, if I misused it.

Thanks for being a straight-shooter though.

Willie

You would be making a snap decision based on limited information - and mainly based on your inability to access the inside info.

That's a recipe for making a bad decision. Willie is a straight shooter.

kay

If shared with the wrong people, or even published in a for sale
document... probably.

However, many very very valuable bits of information are right in
front of us, and we ignore them as too obvious, or not new or sexy
enough. Fairly ordinary things, even common knowledge can
be harnessed in new ways... and suddenly become game changers.

Willie

I myself know two major google loopholes.... I do not need to share them and I belive the are nothing ground breaking. Although I do know these because my friend use to work for google.

But alas, all these loopholes, secrets, they are normally nothing more than commonsense and not really anything ground breaking. Trust me, they come and go all the time.

I've spoken to google engineers many times. They have some pretty stingent guidelines. They are always happy to listen to your questions, but getting a simple answer nearly impossible. From my memory, I would get answers like "not exactly" or "something like that". But if you start asking specifics, it is mostly a dead end.

Matt is pretty approachable at conferences. But he is pretty good with sticking to talking about information that is already available. He doesn't talk about anything "insider" which of course would be illegal since they are a public company.

Google is used to handling extremely challenging problems on many different fronts, and have thousands of PHDs thinking about thousands of aspects of their business every day.

Should there be a loophole of serious proportions, I'm sure they can handle it quickly and efficiently.

I've asked for more information about the best channel of communication from the engineer I know pretty well. Hopefully, he will respond soon. But on the surface, I am of the opinion this is a big waste of time.

The guy who started this (not OP in this thread) has an SEO company that was registered in September, and the original thread was removed. That should tell you something already. The site is seoexpertglobal.com and seems to use normal seo tactics like blog and profile spamming. No major loopholes that I see, unless maybe this loophole doesn't relate to search.

Matt Cutts does not read all of the comments on his blog. If he did, he would have to take a vacation from Google to catch up.

There you go Willie. Not direct contact per se, but a path.

Perhaps once they have fixed it, you could come back and let us know what it was all about?

I just got this image of Jeff Probst saying "the tribe has spoken" while he snuffs out Willie's torch.






(On a serious note, Willie, best of luck in getting this taken care of in a way that's satisfactory to you and all involved.)