Why list building isn't working for me?

by sme
50 replies
Hello Fine Warriors,

Here it goes. I have a website that makes me somewhere between $100-200 per day. It has an opt in box in the sidebar. But the main purpose of the webpage is to get people to click on the affiliate link.

So since I have been reading about list building since I started IM, I thought I'll change the layout and instead of sending people to the merchant, I'll get their email and then do some good ole fashion email marketing.

The day I change my layout, My income drops to $30-$50 per day.

I was getting 200-300 hops before, and now I am getting hardly 100 hops per day.

I think the main problem with my niche is that everyone and their mothers are trying email marketing. My website already provides tons and I mean tons of free and extremely useful information on the topic. Most of the visitors on my website are from search engines. I think most of them are just glad to find someone providing great information without asking for their email address.

I get 60-80 opt-ins per day. And I have a series of 8 autoresponders. I'd even set up a bonus for them and used cblistautomater to offer it to them when they buy it from me. I had even set up another list of buyers so that when they get the bonus they will automatically subscribe to the buyers list and will be unsubscribed from the prospects list.

But the sales have dropped consistently and no one seems to be interested in the bonuses.

I do get emails from them, asking questions and thanking me etc.

I get a lot of comments on my site. People telling me they've bookmarked the articles. Some of them saying they've printed them out and read it when they need to.

But the list isn't working for me.

So just yesterday, I changed the layout back again and now I am again back to the old style of "great information which leads to the merchant who does the selling" part. And all of a sudden, I have another $180 day.

So, I guess this list building isn't really working for me. Or maybe I am doing something wrong.

Maybe the money isn't in the list. Maybe it's in just helping people.
#building #list #working
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Brauer
    [Quote]Maybe the money isn't in the list. Maybe it's in just helping people.[Quote]

    I think you're *almost* there with this quote.

    Definitely helping people is what you need to do to make more money. Put others first, before you ask for anything in return...

    But, the money IS in the list if you treat them right, and people want to open your emails. There's a fine line between being a spammer and being helpful. Just sayin'

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    • Profile picture of the author mikeroosa
      You got to go with what's working for you. Yes, the list can be a very powerful income generator, but if it's not working then don't be afraid to go back to what was working.
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    • Profile picture of the author LawFanatic
      prophetmktg:
      Definitely helping people is what you need to do to make more money. Put others first, before you ask for anything in return...
      You are 100% correct, especially when marketing via the Internet.
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  • Profile picture of the author daj
    Maybe the money isn't in the list. Maybe it's in just helping people.

    This should be in bold text on the front page of this forum, IMO.

    Thread just goes to show that the advice of the "populace" on here doesn't always work for all. If you have a QUALITY website that actually offers VALUE and HELPS your visitors with what they are looking for then there is no reason for you to have to use any marketing tactics (list building, free bonuses, etc.) at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by daj View Post

      Maybe the money isn't in the list. Maybe it's in just helping people.

      This should be in bold text on the front page of this forum, IMO.

      Thread just goes to show that the advice of the "populace" on here doesn't always work for all. If you have a QUALITY website that actually offers VALUE and HELPS your visitors with what they are looking for then there is no reason for you to have to use any marketing tactics (list building, free bonuses, etc.) at all.
      Except for one little problem...the OP is leaving a lot of money on the table by not having a list...To each their own, but it's harder to get new customers than to sell to current ones. So there had to be something the OP was doing to cause the sales to drop in his list building process.

      If you don't want to build a list...and I do but am not doing so as of yet for several reasons, but have in the past...that's up to you. I just think you can make more money by building a list because then you can offer more than one product to them AND show them you offer value and quality all the time.
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      • Profile picture of the author sme
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        Except for one little problem...the OP is leaving a lot of money on the table by not having a list...To each their own, but it's harder to get new customers than to sell to current ones. So there had to be something the OP was doing to cause the sales to drop in his list building process.

        If you don't want to build a list...and I do but am not doing so as of yet for several reasons, but have in the past...that's up to you. I just think you can make more money by building a list because then you can offer more than one product to them AND show them you offer value and quality all the time.
        I understand that the biggest benefit of list building is repeat customers. That's the reason why I tried it. But in my case, the front end sales are decreasing by half. I might be doing something wrong which is why I will give it a try again in late May probably. But until then, I am sticking to what's working. Thanks for the advice.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Fernandez
        Scrofford is exactly right! You really need to target both your opt-ins and customers (sales). As long as you are collecting opt-ins and getting them, you should be marketing to them.

        It's funny because I was just getting ready to post and recommend Andre's course to you....good course, glad you've read it!

        I think you're doing great and just need to work on the delivery of the sequence and offers. As long as your front-end sales are working good, you can split test emails, play with offers, etc.

        But overall all you should be happy with your success, congrats!
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      • Profile picture of the author Carol_A
        I am still wondering what the visitors get for opting in.....What are you offering to get those subscribers?

        I thought everyone started with a squeeze page, then a branding page, then a sales page....

        Learn something every day!
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  • Profile picture of the author incliner
    I think I'd go for the cash as well...BUT, If you're getting 60-80 optins a day, you may just have to re-invent what you're doing with these people. They were interested enough to opt in so they must have seen some value. It could just be that you haven't found their hot button yet. If you're willing and able to forego the immediate profit while you find it, you just may open up a gold mine.

    Averaging 70 optins a day x 365 is a list of over 25,000 in a year...think seriously before tossing that out completely.
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  • Profile picture of the author butch04
    How is your autoresponder series setup? You said you have 8 messages. Do you start off with selling right away? Also do you make people confirm their email address? How far apart in between sends of your 8 letters? All of this can make a difference.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Fernandez
      You have some great responses/recommendations above so I'm just going to add a few things -

      1) Are you using a different autoresponder sequence for buyers versus opt-ins? This is huge and makes a ton of difference.

      2) Do you have a sales funnel planned based on the front-end product (either a sale or an opt-in) that then leads into a reason for sending email marketing? Most people tend to "blast" out emails with offers without any real plan or funnel as to why the customer should take action on those offers. As an example, If I buy a new car I might want to compare prices on insurance, but I certainly don't want an offer to buy another new car. The email sequence has to lead me through to a next logical step.

      You need to create a script, or story outline, as to what your customers are thinking when they either opt-in or buy your front-end product. From there, they should be funneled into the next part of your "story" and thus, the next action they need to take.

      3) Email marketing is all about "character" and trust, it takes time to build this but as long as you script everything out and look at things in a sequence, you can have great sales on the front-end and great sales through your list.

      Hope this helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Halloran
    I think you should post your site and possibly some e-mails you're sending out so they can be dissected.
    Signature

    It's not what you know, it's who you know.

    Stop thinking only about helping yourself achieve your goals, and start thinking helping others help you achieve your collective goals.

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    • Profile picture of the author sme
      I've tried to list building with this niche before and I am trying it again this time. I took two different approaches with both of them.

      The first time I tried it, there wasn't any promotion for the 1st 4 emails and it sort of built up to the 5th email where I would tell them something important and in the 5th email, I would tell them that something important and tell them about the product.

      This time, I am taking a different approach. I tell them about the product in the first email and tell them that I have set up some awesome bonuses for them which they can get only if they buy the product through my link.

      I send them an email everyday. And give them valuable information which leads to the product in the end. There are a couple of emails in between which are purely information.

      The people in this niche are hungry for information and almost everyone who is doing email marketing in this niche sends an email to their list everyday for at least 30 days. I know because I've opted in to every one of them.

      I do get sales with email marketing. The only thing is that I get more sales when I lead them directly to the sales page from my site. I guess it's because a lot of people don't want to opt in so they just leave my site when they see an opt in box. I miss out on a lot of buyers by doing that.

      Right now I am still getting 10-15 opt ins per day. So I guess I can test the autoresponders and selling techniques on them. I think I'll try this strange thing called list building again in May. For now, I just want to cash in a little bit.


      Originally Posted by Phil Halloran View Post

      I think you should post your site and possibly some e-mails you're sending out so they can be dissected.
      Thanks for the offer. But I don't want thousands of thieves who lurk around this forum to steal my hard work. If this site wasn't making me any money, it would have been different.


      You have some great responses/recommendations above so I'm just going to add a few things -

      1) Are you using a different autoresponder sequence for buyers versus opt-ins? This is huge and makes a ton of difference.

      2) Do you have a sales funnel planned based on the front-end product (either a sale or an opt-in) that then leads into a reason for sending email marketing? Most people tend to "blast" out emails with offers without any real plan or funnel as to why the customer should take action on those offers. As an example, If I buy a new car I might want to compare prices on insurance, but I certainly don't want an offer to buy another new car. The email sequence has to lead me through to a next logical step.

      You need to create a script, or story outline, as to what your customers are thinking when they either opt-in or buy your front-end product. From there, they should be funneled into the next part of your "story" and thus, the next action they need to take.

      3) Email marketing is all about "character" and trust, it takes time to build this but as long as you script everything out and look at things in a sequence, you can have great sales on the front-end and great sales through your list.

      Hope this helps!
      Thanks. Nice Tips. Actually I took the autoresponder Madness course by Andre Chaperon and I think I am pretty well versed with the whole idea of email marketing. I know it's an art that needs to be mastered before I can bear the fruits of it. But I guess at the moment, I am just having better results by direct linking. Oh well.
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      • Profile picture of the author Phil Halloran
        Originally Posted by sme View Post

        I've tried to list building with this niche before and I am trying it again this time. I took two different approaches with both of them.

        The first time I tried it, there wasn't any promotion for the 1st 4 emails and it sort of built up to the 5th email where I would tell them something important and in the 5th email, I would tell them that something important and tell them about the product.

        This time, I am taking a different approach. I tell them about the product in the first email and tell them that I have set up some awesome bonuses for them which they can get only if they buy the product through my link.

        I send them an email everyday. And give them valuable information which leads to the product in the end. There are a couple of emails in between which are purely information.

        The people in this niche are hungry for information and almost everyone who is doing email marketing in this niche sends an email to their list everyday for at least 30 days. I know because I've opted in to every one of them.

        I do get sales with email marketing. The only thing is that I get more sales when I lead them directly to the sales page from my site. I guess it's because a lot of people don't want to opt in so they just leave my site when they see an opt in box. I miss out on a lot of buyers by doing that.

        Right now I am still getting 10-15 opt ins per day. So I guess I can test the autoresponders and selling techniques on them. I think I'll try this strange thing called list building again in May. For now, I just want to cash in a little bit.




        Thanks for the offer. But I don't want thousands of thieves who lurk around this forum to steal my hard work. If this site wasn't making me any money, it would have been different.




        Thanks. Nice Tips. Actually I took the autoresponder Madness course by Andre Chaperon and I think I am pretty well versed with the whole idea of email marketing. I know it's an art that needs to be mastered before I can bear the fruits of it. But I guess at the moment, I am just having better results by direct linking. Oh well.
        Fair enough. It's not making anywhere near as much money as the real pros are making though and you have a long way to go. Money is nothing.
        Signature

        It's not what you know, it's who you know.

        Stop thinking only about helping yourself achieve your goals, and start thinking helping others help you achieve your collective goals.

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  • Profile picture of the author TylerRWS
    But I guess at the moment, I am just having better results by direct linking. Oh well.

    Exactly! Do what's working for you. Suffice to what many may say, not every type of site (or every type of niche for that matter) is geared towards email marketing.

    If you're marketing in a niche that contains a quick remedy to a temporary problem (i.e. registry cleaner) then a list definitely is not necessary, and might very well hurt your profit margin.

    You tried it and tested it, and it didn't work...at least not as well as sending the visitor directly to the merchant's site. Your job is done. Stick with what's working for you, but remember to never be afraid to try new things.

    You never know what breakthrough you may have by testing different strategies.

    By the way, sme...congrats on the $100 - $200 a day. There's a lot of people out there who wish they were doing the same!

    Cheers,

    Travis
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  • Profile picture of the author sme
    Hey Carol,

    I don't have a squeeze page in the end. I already provide them so much free information on my website, by the time they reach my squeeze page they are already sold on me. I just tell them that I will send them an ecourse over the course of the next few days which will help them even more in solving their problem. And then, I show them a few testimonials that I got from my previous email campaigns about customers telling me how glad they were that they joined and that they read my emails every day and how much it has helped them. It is an ugly page with no graphics but it still gets 50% opt in.

    The reason why I don't have a squeeze page on my front page is because..

    . I get most of my traffic from search engine. I am pretty sure search engines are using some factors such as bounce rate and how long people stay on a website to determine rankings. Some may disagree with me, but in my experience pages with no value and just a squeeze page rarely rank on the first page. And even if they do, they fall off quickly. I on the other hand have been providing great content and value and have been able to rise for very very competitive keyword and have maintained my rankings for a long time.

    - To separate myself from the market. Like I said, everyone in my niche has just a squeeze page on their front page without any valuable information. I need to do something to different to stand out. And it's been working for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Carol_A
    I appreciate the repeat......I did actually read your original post twice before posting. Just proving my 'learning style'....lol

    Thanks for clarifying. I am learning so many new things daily, and I love it!

    Take Care,
    Carol
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  • A list only works if you can provide real value to your visitors.

    The term Over Deliver is so relevant and should always be part of the list building equation.

    At no point in the original post here did I read that there was any value to joining the list.

    Marketing is ALWAYS about delivering value to the target audience. It's about THEM not you.
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  • Profile picture of the author terrencewan
    Stick onto something that is working for you,
    that's what i think is best.

    Since you are already doing quite well in
    a certain field, why don't you expand in that
    area?

    Although is always good to try new things,
    as you never try you never know,
    but i think only when you have the spare
    time, else stick on what is good for you
    and expand later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Originally Posted by sme View Post

    Hello Fine Warriors,

    Here it goes. I have a website that makes me somewhere between $100-200 per day. It has an opt in box in the sidebar. But the main purpose of the webpage is to get people to click on the affiliate link.

    So since I have been reading about list building since I started IM, I thought I'll change the layout and instead of sending people to the merchant, I'll get their email and then do some good ole fashion email marketing.

    The day I change my layout, My income drops to $30-$50 per day.

    I was getting 200-300 hops before, and now I am getting hardly 100 hops per day.

    I think the main problem with my niche is that everyone and their mothers are trying email marketing. My website already provides tons and I mean tons of free and extremely useful information on the topic. Most of the visitors on my website are from search engines. I think most of them are just glad to find someone providing great information without asking for their email address.

    I get 60-80 opt-ins per day. And I have a series of 8 autoresponders. I'd even set up a bonus for them and used cblistautomater to offer it to them when they buy it from me. I had even set up another list of buyers so that when they get the bonus they will automatically subscribe to the buyers list and will be unsubscribed from the prospects list.

    But the sales have dropped consistently and no one seems to be interested in the bonuses.

    I do get emails from them, asking questions and thanking me etc.

    I get a lot of comments on my site. People telling me they've bookmarked the articles. Some of them saying they've printed them out and read it when they need to.

    But the list isn't working for me.

    So just yesterday, I changed the layout back again and now I am again back to the old style of "great information which leads to the merchant who does the selling" part. And all of a sudden, I have another $180 day.

    So, I guess this list building isn't really working for me. Or maybe I am doing something wrong.

    Maybe the money isn't in the list. Maybe it's in just helping people.

    Here's what I'd do...

    1) Offer them something irresistible but in order to get it for free they have to email you their mailing address.

    2) Send them the "thing" you promised through snail mail to their mailing address.

    3) Include some sales copy that ties in your "thing" to a paid for product.

    4) If it works well you could offer them a monthly newsletter mailed to their house and filled with more valuable information at a small cost.

    I would try that and see what happens. It could be your marketing message but I'd try to get out of their email inbox with your message and beat the pants off the stiff competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Why don't you try what this guy is doing? You can essentially combine both methods you are talking about...

    http://youtu.be/fPvjA91m-sI
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  • Profile picture of the author colll999
    Try changing your opt in offer now you have gone back to your original site.

    You could try a headline like Make $100-$200 a day with a simple site just like this one.

    This will be unique to you as its your site and simply make a product around how you make your money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Money maker guy
    Try take a look on this guy!

    YouTube - List building Secret Revealed
    Signature
    Hi Guys!
    This is my first page: http://hubpages.com/t/22e791
    Take a look....!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sagar Mehta
    That's one good income generating website you have there. And I'm tempted to say that if it's working for you - then it's working for you and you can stick to it.

    BUT, here's some food for thought.

    I had a website (which has been sold now) where I was giving away a LOT of free information. It was extremely valuable content - something which my top competitors were offering only inside their PAID products.

    That website had good traffic, good hop rates and good sales.

    Just like you, I tried to build a list on that website and got very BAD responses as far as product sales are concerned.

    Then, I had an 'a-ha' moment:
    What my visitors wanted was ALREADY on the website

    I promised them certain benefits to sign up to the list and overdelivered, but still, my website was enough for them.

    So the tricky part for me was to KEEP the valuable content on the website so as not to disappoint any visitor and yet have an extremely STRONG reason to opt in to my list (and stay on it).

    What worked for me was taking them AWAY from my website, removing the dependency that they had on its content. Now, I still have that list and though the website is long gone (and it isn't the same as it used to be when I was running it), the subscribers give me good responses - they read, they reply, and they buy.

    Something to think about

    Sagar
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    • Profile picture of the author quiescen
      The way I do it is I have an opt-in offer at the top of the page AND a great offer a little further down so people who don't want a free lesson and book can purchase what I'm offering directly.

      This works out very well for me since about 50% of the people who buy do so without ever getting the freebies I'm offering.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    Do you mind revealing your broad niche? For example, is it health/beauty? MMO? Relationships? Hobbies? Fitness?

    Also, in your emails were you revealing stuff that was already on your site? Did you redirect them BACK to your site in the follow-ups? Or did you just email them with no call to action?
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    • Profile picture of the author sme
      Do you mind revealing your broad niche? For example, is it health/beauty? MMO? Relationships? Hobbies? Fitness?

      Also, in your emails were you revealing stuff that was already on your site? Did you redirect them BACK to your site in the follow-ups? Or did you just email them with no call to action?
      Once they opt in, they just get emails with content that is different from what they read on the website. In the previous autoresponder that I had, I also told them a little story in parts in different emails. Kind of like Andre Chaperon teaches in ARM. I only direct them to my website when I have to share a video with them.

      I guess the main problem here is to get them to join the list. My website gets a thousand visitors everyday. Out of them, 250-300 click to the merchant when I am directly linking to the merchant. When I set up the website for list building, I only get 60-80 opt ins per day. So, I guess I am losing somewhere around 200 visitors per day many of which might have turned out to be buyers.

      Right now, I still get 200-300 hops and get around 10-20 opt ins. So, all in all, it isn't so bad.

      That is some great advice from Sagar Mehta. That is what I will try to do when I think is the right time to experiment.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Let me get this right ... you're sending an email every day, and you have a series of only 8 outgoing emails? So if someone hasn't bought within just over a week of opting in, you've "lost" them?!

        I make more than 90% of my sales - across 8 different niches - at a later stage than that.

        I know these things can vary quite a bit from niche to niche, and indeed from traffic-source to traffic-source, but I'm just saying ...
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        • Profile picture of the author sme
          Hey Alexa. I started this new list a few days back (on 21st) to test the waters. Nobody in my list has yet reached the 8th email. I will be adding more emails with time.

          I know that it takes time to build relationship with them and see results.

          But the thought of losing 200 visitors everyday which could have converted into sales is something I can't live with.

          I will have to rethink my strategy and try to come up with a better offer to get more emails. Until then, I will let it be like this.
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      • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
        If you are making a lot of money with direct linking then do not, I repeat, DO NOT do the following:

        1) Send them to a thank you page after they opt-in (you will lose all your hops).

        2) Send them to a download page for a free PDF report (you will lose all your hops).

        3) Send them straight to the merchant page (it's deception because they gave you their email expecting something FREE).

        What you should do is:

        Send them to a page with something valuable, like a free video page or a page with "5 secrets to..." or "The biggest 10 mistakes of.." or "The 3 first steps to..." and then, in that same page, after they read the stuff (or watch the video) PRE-SELL THEM and RECOMMEND THEM like crazy the product you're selling.

        So something like:

        Squeeze page -> free video with preselling at the end and a buttom below that says something like "Click here to learn more". Then the button sends them to the merchant page.

        or

        Squeeze page -> page with 5 tips or 3 steps or whatever and then some hardcore pre-selling at the end of that page with at least 3 links to the merchant page.

        You will lose hops but your conversion rate will INCREASE a lot if you do it well.

        Try it.

        And then you just keep sending them cool stuff with your emails with small mini pitches at the end of every email.

        Forget about Andre Chaperon and all the soap opera and open loop stuff.

        Keep it simple.

        Originally Posted by sme View Post

        I guess the main problem here is to get them to join the list. My website gets a thousand visitors everyday. Out of them, 250-300 click to the merchant when I am directly linking to the merchant. When I set up the website for list building, I only get 60-80 opt ins per day. So, I guess I am losing somewhere around 200 visitors per day many of which might have turned out to be buyers.
        If you have an opt-in rate of 25% then you should definitely try to increase it to at least 35%.

        Split test like crazy.
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  • Profile picture of the author LauraH
    Banned
    I don't think list building is crucial to succeeding on the internet. You will hear a lot of people talking about building a list. This is all "talk". I guarantee that more people have failed with email marketing than have succeeded with it. The reality is that all you need to make money online is a targeted market, not an email list. People are getting a lot of emails these days with advertisements. Most people use back up emails when they join email lists, and this leads to emails being read less. The reason why email marketing works so well for gurus is because their product launches are not going to just one list. All of their JV partners promote the product as well. I think email marketing works best when you offer physical products or services that can help people. However, if you plan on launching a brand new make millions digital ebook, there is a good chance that you won't succeed unless you have tons of people sending out your product offer to their lists.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sme View Post

      I know that it takes time to build relationship with them and see results.
      It does indeed. But once you've built a relationship with them, of course, the value of your list increases exponentially, and they can be prospective purchasers for far more than just whatever you're promoting now ... so it's really worth the effort.

      Originally Posted by sme View Post

      But the thought of losing 200 visitors everyday which could have converted into sales is something I can't live with.
      Yes, I hear you there. It's an uncomfortable thought indeed. Well, nobody can fault your plan to rethink your strategy and try to come up with a better offer to get more email addresses: this is what it's all about.

      The big question (if you don't mind one!) is: why are you emailing them every day? :confused:

      Originally Posted by LauraH View Post

      You will hear a lot of people talking about building a list. This is all "talk".
      And quite a lot of it's talk from people who struggled for ages, never made any money, and then eventually started list-building, started earning regularly, and have never looked back.

      That's why, understandably, in so many conversations here, when people ask internet marketers "What's the one thing you wish you'd known at the start and/or had done differently?" the wise and almost universal answer from the successful Warriors is "Start building lists at an earlier stage".

      Originally Posted by LauraH View Post

      I guarantee that more people have failed with email marketing than have succeeded with it.
      This is history, not news - and the same is true of all forms of internet marketing, and for that matter all other forms self-employment, too, so it doesn't in itself signify much.

      What's relevant about it, in this context, is of course that a far higher proportion of those who failed weren't building lists than is so for the proportion of those who succeeded.
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      • Profile picture of the author LauraH
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        That's why, understandably, in so many conversations here, when people ask internet marketers "What's the one thing you wish you'd known at the start and/or had done differently?" the wise and almost universal answer from the successful Warriors is "Start building lists at an earlier stage".

        I have to disagree with your statement. Like I said, email marketing works well if you are offering physical products or services. Then, it's a great choice. However, most people aren't offering that within the internet marketing industry. They are offering make millions right now within the next 5 minutes eBooks or some other related make money product. Nobody buys them anymore because they see the same stuff every day pop up in their inboxes. People always say that you need to build a "relationship" with the list to make it work. This is true. However, it is very difficult to build a relationship with someone if you plan on sending them a promotional "Make money right now with two clicks of a button" product. Your relationship will be just about worthless sooner or later. Unless, you have a way to get new subscribers consistently, there is no way you can succeed with email marketing long term by promoting digital products.
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        • Profile picture of the author scrofford
          Originally Posted by LauraH View Post

          I have to disagree with your statement. Like I said, email marketing works well if you are offering physical products or services. Then, it's a great choice. However, most people aren't offering that within the internet marketing industry. They are offering make millions right now within the next 5 minutes eBooks or some other related make money product. Nobody buys them anymore because they see the same stuff every day pop up in their inboxes. People always say that you need to build a "relationship" with the list to make it work. This is true. However, it is very difficult to build a relationship with someone if you plan on sending them a promotional "Make money right now with two clicks of a button" product. Your relationship will be just about worthless sooner or later. Unless, you have a way to get new subscribers consistently, there is no way you can succeed with email marketing long term by promoting digital products.
          Wrong again! Building a list has nothing to do with whether you are promoting a physical product or not. It has to do with value and quality. You have to be different from everyone else. You have to go above and beyond with what your subscribers expect. You don't give them crap in their inboxes. This is how you build a list of subscribers who want to buy from you.
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          • Profile picture of the author LauraH
            Banned
            Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

            Wrong again! Building a list has nothing to do with whether you are promoting a physical product or not. It has to do with value and quality. You have to be different from everyone else. You have to go above and beyond with what your subscribers expect. You don't give them crap in their inboxes. This is how you build a list of subscribers who want to buy from you.
            Building a list has everything to do with providing value to the people on it. As I mentioned above, most people get involved with promoting make money products to their email lists. This isn't value. You can only promote a make money product so many times before the people on the list realize that you're just a salesman. Even if you are in the weight loss industry, promoting digital weight loss products is eventually going to stop working unless you have new subscribers coming in continuously. Nobody is going to buy 25 new weight loss products from you when the first one was supposed to work.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by LauraH View Post

              As I mentioned above, most people get involved with promoting make money products to their email lists.
              You may have mentioned it above, but it wasn't true then, and guess what? It still isn't now. "Most people" get involved with promoting MMO products to their email lists?! One of the most bizarre theories I've ever heard here (and that's saying something). What on earth gives you this idea, Laura?! :confused:
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              • Profile picture of the author LauraH
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                You may have mentioned it above, but it wasn't true then, and guess what? It still isn't now. "Most people" get involved with promoting MMO products to their email lists?! One of the most bizarre theories I've ever heard here (and that's saying something). What on earth gives you this idea, Laura?! :confused:
                Yes, most people within the internet marketing industry direct themselves right at the make money niche. I don't know why you don't believe that statement.
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                • Profile picture of the author scrofford
                  Originally Posted by LauraH View Post

                  Yes, most people within the internet marketing industry direct themselves right at the make money niche. I don't know why you don't believe that statement.
                  Wow not true again!!!! Yes MMO is a huge market but don't forget about Relationships, Dogs, Positive thinking stuff, Health and Weight Loss (you mentioned that one), and a myriad of other markets out there. I would say there are millions of people working in those other markets. I wouldn't say MOST people direct themselves at the MMO niche at all.
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            • Profile picture of the author scrofford
              Originally Posted by LauraH View Post

              Building a list has everything to do with providing value to the people on it. As I mentioned above, most people get involved with promoting make money products to their email lists. This isn't value. You can only promote a make money product so many times before the people on the list realize that you're just a salesman. Even if you are in the weight loss industry, promoting digital weight loss products is eventually going to stop working unless you have new subscribers coming in continuously. Nobody is going to buy 25 new weight loss products from you when the first one was supposed to work.
              Your perception of building your backend business is incorrect. It's not about how many products you offer. You want to constantly offer higher VALUE along with higher priced offers. That being said, you wouldn't offer the same "types" of products in the backend. You would want to offer products like coaching, or some kind of master mind group. I could see this working for a lot of different niche markets.

              So again, I think you are thinking just about the little front end $37 ebook that originally got a consumer to buy. It goes way beyond that. And not to mention, when you do get someone on your list, you're going to want to give more free valuable content than you ever would product offers.

              I really think your perception of list building is warped and you might want to take a step back and get a fresh look at it.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by LauraH View Post

      I don't think list building is crucial to succeeding on the internet. You will hear a lot of people talking about building a list. This is all "talk". I guarantee that more people have failed with email marketing than have succeeded with it. The reality is that all you need to make money online is a targeted market, not an email list. People are getting a lot of emails these days with advertisements. Most people use back up emails when they join email lists, and this leads to emails being read less. The reason why email marketing works so well for gurus is because their product launches are not going to just one list. All of their JV partners promote the product as well. I think email marketing works best when you offer physical products or services that can help people. However, if you plan on launching a brand new make millions digital ebook, there is a good chance that you won't succeed unless you have tons of people sending out your product offer to their lists.
      I really have to disagree with you here. The reality of not having a targeted subscriber list is that you are leaving money on the table. True enough you don't need a list to make money, but if you want to really build a business and make a lot of money then you are going to need to bring in more money than just from a $37 product.

      Building a list will allow you to sell higher value and higher priced backend products to those who know like and trust you. Not to mention, like I've said before, it's much easier to sell to a current customer than to have to sell to someone brand new and who knows nothing about you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        The reality of not having a targeted subscriber list is that you are leaving money on the table. True enough you don't need a list to make money, but if you want to really build a business and make a lot of money then you are going to need to bring in more money than just from a $37 product.

        Building a list will allow you to sell higher value and higher priced backend products to those who know like and trust you. Not to mention, like I've said before, it's much easier to sell to a current customer than to have to sell to someone brand new and who knows nothing about you.
        Exactly so.

        Building a list means you're building a business (something based on an asset of ongoing and increasing value) rather than repeatedly doing a "rinse-and-repeat".
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      • Profile picture of the author LauraH
        Banned
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        I really have to disagree with you here. The reality of not having a targeted subscriber list is that you are leaving money on the table. True enough you don't need a list to make money, but if you want to really build a business and make a lot of money then you are going to need to bring in more money than just from a $37 product.
        I never said that all you have to do is a sell a product. You need traffic to the product to make money. You can drive traffic to a website that delivers valuable content through a variety of different ways (article marketing, seo, social bookmarking, blog commenting, etc) . Occasionally, you can create a blog post about a product that you can make commission on. The email list is unnecessary if you are already getting traffic. The original poster is succeeding without email marketing because it is common logic. Someone would rather visit a website that has value on it than look at a promotional email that offers no value. If you send emails to a list directing them to a blog post, then it is better off. However, a straight up promotional email is not going to work very well especially for digital ebook products.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by LauraH View Post

          The email list is unnecessary if you are already getting traffic.
          I think we're probably "flogging a dead horse" here, Scrofford, don't you?

          Over and out from me, on this one ...
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  • Profile picture of the author YungNic
    Wow that was a good testing segment. but i understand where you are coming from... it is a little hard to get people to opt-in sometimes. The only problem is.. in your case repeat business... getting those who purchase to come back for more of your valuable info.
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  • Profile picture of the author quiescen
    The list building strategy is sound if you believe that most visitors to your site won't purchase anything on their first visit.

    Which is why you get their email address. What I do is send a weekly newsletter and this seems to work well. They get relevant content every week, and of course, another opportunity to read my offer!
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  • Profile picture of the author sme
    Hey Laura. As much as I appreciate your opinion on the matter, I disagree with the fact that email marketing only works for physical product. And I completely disagree with the fact that it doesn't work for MMO products. Not all MMO products are push button system that are pure crap. There are many products in the IM niche that have extremely valuable content and I am on many IM lists whom I trust and have bought many times from.

    I do understand the value of list building, which is the reason why I decided to experiment with a website that was already making me $100-200 per day. It was a tough decision and I was fighting with myself everyday to not do it. It was out of my comfort zone. I have quite a few products that I can sell to this niche in the later stage and that was what I had in my mind when I changed the layout from direct linking to list building.

    But alas, it didn't work because of the low opt in ratio. I will continue to work on it. Perhaps, it is time to create my own product. Being an affiliate doesn't really work because people who are buying through my link aren't really opting in to the bonus page I had setup. If I had my own product, I could at least get the emails of the buyers.

    There is a lot to do in the near future. Thanks a lot everyone for their valuable opinions.

    Laura, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think your opinion on list building for digital products is just based on some crappy IM who just send out blatant promotion to their email list. Perhaps you should opt in to someone more ethical and who really knows how to build a relationship with their customers. And try to unsubscribe from anyone who doesn't provide value.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    After they opt-in don't send them to a thank you page that says be sure to check your email to confirm your subscription.

    After they opt-in redirect them straight to the merchant page.

    Not sure if you tried the above, if not I would definitely test it out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane Hale
    Engage your list. Offer free stuff and get them to act on it. Get some awesome reports and videos to give away. One thing I do is give away the report to the first 100 people who act on it and then turn link off.

    I have noticed I would do this a lot and my list started to get used to clicking through for free cool stuff. Then when I would create a paid product or report my sales would sky rocket. Also I would use coupon codes on paid stuff for first 100 or so.

    People hate to miss out on stuff... Especially Free stuff! Just offer really great content and over deliver!
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    yes i see some weird opinions coming from a few people.

    I actually posted a thread on this very topic a few days ago.

    ==> http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-big-list.html
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