Does Your Family Think You Are Crazy For Doing IM?

Justin,

I know what you mean, my wife was very skeptical when I first started :-)

I remember how we celebrated my first dollar made online, at that point she actually believed it was possible and needless to say that when my online income got close to 6 figures - she had a complete trust.

At this point I have full support from family - now just doing my best to manage work/life balance - spending as much time as possible with family, after all this is the reason that got me into IM

Hi Justin

That's where I'm at. My partner doesn't understand this at all, and I'm still at the stage where I'm trying to get something to "stick". I've had some successes in the past, but nothing earth shattering that will show her exactly why I'm doing it. She sees it as a waste of my time.

When I try to involve her, she can't get interested or motivated. Don't get me wrong, she wants to support me, but that may be her telling me to find something that brings in more money!

I've tried to involve the kids too, I've built blogs for them to "play with", but the Xbox or Facebook always wins! I keep trying with them, like asking the older one to build Facebook pages for me, but without showing them some income to prove it can work, they don't "get it" either.

I'm just waiting to see some regular money come in, then I think they will all sit up and take notice

Yes, some people can't realize the fact that you can make money off of the interwebs. I ran through this problem with my wife. I was spending a lot to learn. That is the biggest problem is when your are not making the money and in the learning phase of things. It can take a toll. Once you find the right niche and start bringing in bank. It changes things drastically. Now she is like, "When is your next product launch?".

I can't even discuss it with my family, they get an impatient look on their face like I'm saying I'm going to sail to Abu Dhabi on a cloud. They believe in "real" jobs and they think I'm lazy and just trying to avoid "real" work.

It can be somewhat upsetting at times.

My kid is completely supportive but I suspect I only have a little more time for that if I don't show big results soon.

You won't believe what i ve been through just for the others to believe me..No one believed in me except from my sister.I ve been through huge disappointment when i first started doing IM about 1 and a half year ago.

At first i ve spent more than 1000$ before i could actually made any money.Every one was laughing at me,they used to tell me "don't throw your money around", stop fooling around etc Now that i am constantly making part time at least 1000$ per month,they ve all apologized to me for their behaviour and now they want from me to teach them do the same!Unbelievable!

well my family as well some friends think i am crazy , but it took a long time to prove myself when i got my first car.

Well, my family never really understood what I was doing. There's a side of them that seems 'supportive', but I always get the vibe of 'this guy's an idiot and will never make it' from certain members of my family.

That's really to be expected I guess, whenever you try and do something different to everyone else's traditional mindsets.

problem with IM, no IMers have no clue what you are doing lol

They used to think I was crazy. Now every single one of my siblings and even my parents works with me. It's amazing how a steady supply of cash can make believers out of unbelievers.

I know exactly what you mean. My wife thought I was insane when I first started being interested in internet marketing.

This was my fault to a degree since I was buying ebook's and courses but was not taking action and in turn was obviously seeing no results. Once I took action and made my first few dollars, her attitude changed. Now she is interested in what I am doing, even if it is just to show some support.

Thankfully my partner is supportive and understands my long term vision, though I'm not sure he "gets it" 100% yet.

But as for family, they often ask when I'm going to get a proper job, things like that. I just have to ignore it, it's all you can do.

I have plans to go travelling with my business, and when I do that - without years of saving before hand - I think they will understand the power it gives me to live how I want to live.

thing is - we're taught from a young age to follow. essentially, we grow into employees by default.

the goal is always to "do well and get a good job", rarely do you hear "i hope he starts his own business one day" spoken about a loved one. self-employment is one thing, IM is another. it's way outside of the social "norm".

what gets me though, is I'm okay that people do not understand it, it's when you explain it and they are still skeptical that irritates me. I mean - billions, BILLIONS are being spent online every year - it doesn't take a genius to figure out that with the right knowledge and tools, anybody can get a share of that.

I feel everywhere the situation and family reaction is almost the same. family members does feel that i am putting in number of hours in front of computer, doing something, but without any tangible gain. It is just wastage of time, money , energy- what i am doing. They feel my dream should come true and i really earn money online, but are very skeptical about it. I myself not much confident about it , why to blame them.

Let me also add that my wife was 100% completely supportive when I told her I wanted to get into IM back in 1995. She worked her tail off besides me to make it happen. Heck she even cold called to get us our first clients! The fact that she had complete faith in me scared the **** out of me though. I knew I had to find a way to reward such strong faith. I honestly can say I could not of done it without her help.

My wife supports me and has alway's supported me in my "non-traditional" ventures... however the one thing that really bothers me is that none of my friends "get it" they all think I'm crazy and when I get excited about something .. there's no one to share it with that understands what I'm doing... they just give you that funny look withs some comment like "that's sounds great".

Yeah my parents are the same......they kind of put what I do down..hey i am 40 years old own kids wife etc..yet when it comes to "work" they cannot tget their heads around the fact I make it from home and have so much spare time....I gave up trying to convince them. I'll do it my way.

Many of my friends/associates are the same....soe even smirk when I tell them what I do. You know...do not let it worry you.

Skipped the workforce after graduating with a Mechanical Engineering degree.

Been into Internet Marketing ever since and never looked back.

There were lotsa unpleasant things at the beginning, that I can tell you.

Now the money has arrived, it's all good.

Other than my wife and brother, my family isn't exactly sure what I do. All they see are the houses, the cars, and the ability to give them money when they really need it LOL.

My wife was actually very supportive when I left my corporate job years ago. She thought I should have done it sooner.

I lost my family after starting IM.











J/K

We're all good and they fully support my ventures. Especially when they realized the "internetzzz" is more then a p.o.r.n. television.

Yeah my parents don't belive me , they think that im crazy , they keep saying me that i cant make money from internet , that's imposible

I got my start in real estate investing when I was 22, so breaking that news to my parents was my hurdle to overcome. There are some similarities, as they saw me spending time and money going after a dream, and not getting a job one summer in hopes that I would flip a house and make enough to pay for my senior year of college.

They worried and worried and tried to drag me down. Finally, when I closed my first deal, I came home and slapped a cashier's check for $8,000 down on the counter, and that was all it took to shut them up

Sometimes you just have to bear with people who have small imaginations until they see checks.

Mum is coming around slowly since I now make a few hundred bucks a month. She is actually asking me now "how much did you make today".

But before then yes it was hard. She was as stubborn as they come,

Before 5 years my family didn't believe when I said to them I will make money online, they responded "Are you crazy or you lose your mind just go to work and don't believe this fluff dream"

When I started make money and showed them My first cheque with $823, they have been chocked and believe anything I said.

Now I made 7 figures a year, I'm planning to make 8 figures a year or even 9 figures why not!

I always remember these quotes:

"Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently."
"I do not believe a man can ever leave his business. He ought to think of it by day and dream of it by night"
"It has been my observation that most people get ahead during the time that others waste."

Good Luck to Everyone.

I never told anybody what I was doing and still nobody knows what I'm doing.

I love reading stories like this.

You know whats funny, is when I just focused on online work, people were always curious about what I was doing, and how I was doing it. They were like "oh he does weird online stuff."

But when I started working in the offline market, targeting business owners, suddenly people took my work serious. They would talk about how I started a business and was working with business owners, etc.

I think the perception is that "online" is kind of different where as offline is more traditonal and accepted. As long as you're making $$$ in ethical ways, I dont think it matters what you are doing.

My family didn't think I was crazy, but I'm sure they had their doubts. I made believers out of them once I cracked 1k/mo. Come to think of it, my sister actually helped out with half a dozen articles for one of my blogs.

My husband is very supportive of my IM ventures. Even when I've failed, he's there cheering me on and telling me not to give up. Im not sure if he gets everything i do 100% but hes very interested in what I'm doing.

When I first started, the rest of my family thought what I was doing wasn't important and since I worked at home, they thought I should be able to stop what I was doing at any moment and run errands or do things with them. They have come to realize that I do actually have to work. They know I am a freelance writer but they don't understand the rest.

It's been more than 10 years since I first started IM. When I first got started the majority in my family thought I was crazy. I had a fulltime financial planning practice at the time and still putting in anywhere from 20 to 40 extra hours a week on my business. So 80-100 hour work weeks were very common. Now I work when I want to.

Today, the family breaks down into 3 distinct camps:

Camp #1: Are happy for me and have totally changed their tune (this is mostly close family members like siblings and parents).

Camp #2: Thinks I'm into something shady because I don't have a conventional job and I'm gone from the house weeks, sometimes months at a time. (EDIT: I travel a lot).

Camp #3: Doesn't care what I do, they simply hit me up for money (and I always tell them "no").

Oddly enough, only one of them has asked me how I do this (my brother).

RoD

I was just going to ask this question. Very interesting answers.

a little maybe, but they are more supportive the more they see success.

All my friends and family think i am crazy even though a majority of income comes from im . they are slowly believing so we are getting there

My Dad is cool with it, my mum is a bit skeptical - as any mother would be.

The amount of times i explain to her she doesn't understand bless her .

Girlfriend is cool in it and believes that i can make a big success of IM - which is great

Rest of family just let me get on with it.

Mine don't, simply because I spend my time doing what I want and still have cash coming in.

Thanks James... I like guys like you

Seems like a lot of people had the same
kind of situation as me. They were lunatics
until the money started coming in and then
they were magicians!

They did until I started making 30k a month...

Hi Justin

At first my wife thought that I was crazy wanting to become a fulltime internet marketer, but no she says that it's crazy getting up early each morning and coming home late. I have bought a couple of your products and my dream of becoming \internet marketer fulltime will happen soon.

I have answered questions like this before but I do love answering them.

My parents didn't think anything of it because I've done crazy things all my life, like for instance when I joined a Blackjack Card counting team and ended up doing that for 3 years. All the other weard things I've done are in other post so I won't list them all here again but you get the point.

And I always succeed in pretty much everything I do so it wouldn't really matter what I tell them they just nod their heads and say ok, sounds good to us.

My family would think we were nuts if we DID NOT have an online biz! Our son works with us in our venture and I am happy to have his biz marketing knowledge.

Also, I dont really care what anyone else thinks, it's our biz, not theirs.

Yes, they do think I'm crazy. But that's crazy in a good way!

As far as the world at large is concerned, no one makes a living online - especially not "normal" people.

Most families/friends will doubt you until the day you start bringing home some serious money. Of course, even then, they think it's a temporary thing, like winning the lotto, and eventually, your bubble will burst and you'll have to get a real job like the rest of the stiffs.

But who cares - internet marketers everywhere, making money hand over fist, are laughing all the way to the bank.

They didn't particularly like it at first, but after getting the first few checks they had absolutely no problem with that.

Even after 10 years, my wife doesn't really understand what I do for a living. And now that two of my sons are also into Internet marketing, she doesn't know what any of us do

My wife tells me all the time she doesnt trust IM.

She thinks its too scammy, and she doesnt trust anyone who will show me how they make money because it would give them too much competition.

I think 99% of the world still doesn't see the power of IM, which is good news for us that do know how powerful it is!

Oh yes... I have some family members who still think you can't make money on the Internet, period. I've given up trying to explain it!

Honestly maybe the older generation won't get it but the younger does. Actually i take that back, many people have no clue of what we are doing. But like anything else or any other field, people lack the vision to see whats possible. I'm prety sure that people have dealt with the same problems dealing with their families, going out on a limb with a brick and mortar buisness. Hey, life is short, you can't live by what other peoples standards are, because you're going to get what everybody else gets. And honestly how many influential internet marketing guru's do you have in your inner cirlce. I'm guessing not many. Just have the vision, believe in it and other people will follow.

I can relate.... They still think I am crazy! I had a six figure job at Coca Cola and now doing this full time.

They still think I am crazy.... like a fox. Only now they ask me how I do it... every day they come home from work -

I think it's better to not say anything until you have something to show, or they ask you. Though it's hard when they think you're being lazy, and you're trying to wrap your head around it all, and how to make it work, and get over the fear of starting something new.

I find the more I say or speak up, I only resent them more for their unsupportive things, and trying to discourage or demean by implying that if it doesn't happen you're wasting time, and whole attitude. If college can take multiple years and cost $$$$ and at the end there is no guarantee that you might work for someone hoping they don't lay you off or fire you, how much better is it to actually provide value to people, and make your own life.

Amazing how many people choose not to live their lives in freedom, but willingly choose to live like this was a strict socialist country.

This story is not so much IM as it is about following your dreams and taking chances. And in general, being self employed.

I used to supervisor the construction of commercial buildings like McDonalds, Aldis, etc.. I absolutely hated every minute of it, though the pay was quite nice.
One day I bought my wife a brand new, top of the line Packard Bell 486 for the cost of a small car. I had bought it so she could possibly use it to transcribe documents to earn a little spending cash at home.
But after taking it out of the box and setting it up, I was awed by this miraculous machine the minute I turned it on. For months I didn't leave that system alone except for a quick sleep when I absolutely had to. I even took a leave of absence and buried myself in books on this new technology that had come into my life.

Not long after this I quit the supervising position and took a position at the newly opened ISP down the road. This position paid a whopping $8.50 per hour as a technical support representative. And me with 2 children, you can imagine the comments of "he has lost his mind" coming from family and friends. Well, I was so taken by this technology that I used every waking moment to learn more. And within 3 months of helping people connect their 9600 baud modems to the Internet, I managed to take my boss's job away from him, and was now managing this ISP. Sorry John

After going as far as I could go there I became bored. I didn't want to manage an office. Been there, done that. So I jumped on with a group of guys that were working on a bid for a portion of a very early e-commerce site. One that we landed. "Who was this bid for?" you might ask... None other than Mr. Hefner's baby, the brand new Playboy.com. I guess sometimes there are benefits from living close to a city such as Chicago, though I never did get to see any centerfolds in the flesh, so to speak... Anyway, from that deal, we met with another up and coming website to develop an online ticker. I can say that working on a project for ESPN was quite different from the playboy.com venture. I can also say that the contacts that I made from those 2 early projects in a new industry helped to win over some other large names I have worked for.

But even now, after what seems a lifetime of being involved in the Internet, people still ask me if I am still doing that "Internet Junk".
And I reply yes, as I drive away on my new Harley to go enjoy one of my favorite hobbies, flying small aircraft at the local airport...

So even after you have made the grade and shown you can thrive by following your dreams, people will still question you and be skeptical about what it is that you do. It's always fun to lead them into a little guessing game that bends their minds towards spying and espionage... or seeing the blank stare as you explain multidimensional arrays...

So, Dream on....they can and do come true. The only limitations are yourself.

Ken

Congrats on that achievement Justin. We must be a little crazy to do what most people doesn't dare to do, to be self-employed in reasonable time and just step out of the comfort zone j-o-b option. It takes some 'cojones' and belief!

Great job.

when i get so much , they change their mind , i'm not lazy! car money and all kinds of useful stuffs change them

There are many people here that has same problem,
at first, since 2008 I tried to enter IM but only for gaining knowledge how they work, learn ecommerce, read here and there,etc.

After 6 months, I tried to play a little bit in IM
in the 2nd week,I got my first $7 from affiliate in domain industry. I didnt tell anyone about this, my father still think I'm crazy looking money from internet , well this is new industry, it's normal if he's confuse.

After going up and down in IM, expand and experiment new thing, my financial account is going up . I don't receive any more money from my father or mother. I do this almost 3 years. I can fulfill my needs everyday and buy something more than my friend, plus I even give some lend to them.
My father, brother, cousin, and friend turn to support me until now.

Even my father and other cousin put more trust in me right now, why ?
If I can make money from something that is has no physical ( digital ) , so do physical product ( offline business ).

Keep rockin guys !! lucky, we have warriorforum here so we can support each other

hey justin,

i definitely know what you mean. IM is still something people "don't get" - although there are even here in Germany many many companies which are making money from IM - they just don´t scream it out load, they are just big companies and shut up so nobody sees the possibilities this offers. lately my first affiliate checks came in and my husband just said: " how long did you work for that? is that really worth?" while i was totally over the moon - it really works is what was on my mind - and yes, for anyone reading about it and digging into it - well, there is NO reason why it shouldn´t work...

My family was actually incredibly tolerant about me starting out online.. they almost didn't care.. my friends don't understand it at all, though
Might be because I'm from Denmark.. the whole "Make Money Online"-deal hasn't really hit people around here yet..
If you tell a Dane that you're working online, they'll just look at you strange and ask why you don't have a "real" job

My wife has been very supportive and understanding. There are other family members who are very skeptical. I can just tell by the type of questions that they ask. The important thing is for me not to get skeptical : )

Yeah they do, i told them that i wouldnt like to go to school anymore but they ask me then what would you do? I tell them IM they dont beleive me

I think we all feel very skeptical in the beginning. Its a natural human reaction to feel that way and its totally cool as long as you are aware of it.

But what leads all of us to really get crackin' and make it happen is Suspending Our Disbelief and just GOING FOR IT!

And thats really what it takes.

I mean sh*t, I've been through the ringer. My family used to think I was crazy, I even lost friends over this business because I would stay in on Friday nights and work on my business instead of going out and getting all boozed up.

Apparently that offended some people and caused them not to hang out wit him any more. (good friends right?)

Anyways, now I do IM full time and completely support myself.

And the only reason I was able to do that was because I Suspended My Disbelief and just got it done! I took massive action and figured out exactly what I needed to do in order to make some extra cash on the side which then turned into thousands of dollars every single month.

Damn I'm grateful to have this kind of knowledge at my age. Its such a beautiful thing and I want nothing more than to pass it on to as many people as possible so my products or myself can be the catalyst that change their lives!

Rock on y'all!

I am 20, i spent 5 years learning IM and all the ropes with a lot more to go. Currently i am in University in dubai. Let me tell you something, if you are from an Indian Family, Living in an ARAB country where Internet Marketing or anything to do with ONLINE money is basically NON EXISTANT then you will have a really rough time.

Since 15 back in high school up to now i have kept my IM journeys as a secret, just waiting to get over with university and break free from this evil chain of 'you can't think for yourself' or 'don't have a dream'. I simply CANNOT tell you how hard it is when people think you are crazy just because they don't understand it. I am not sure if i am doing a good thing about keeping all this secret (i have 11 sites and a steady $100-200/month currently). Heck for people like me who are from 3rd world countries and living in arab countries which are still not there yet it's like impossible to even get that $100 home (damn paypal, slow checks, stupid banks).

I will come here one day and tell you how i 'did it', if i don't then you can say i was 'crazy' and so are you.

My dad is the one who introduced me to IM (took me to a 3 day seminar) and he does Forex for a living so he does fully understand the concept of making money online. So my parents don't think I'm crazy, but I'm not making much money yet so they don't treat me seriously regarding it. XP

My boyfriend thinks it's great and want to get into IM as well, my friends and other people do not understand at all and are constantly telling me to get a real job (even though I'm currently too sick to work, oh well). o__O

Luckily, no one thinks I am crazy in my family circle!

My wife has trusted and supported me since day one!

That's what marriage and family is supposed to be about, right?

They know I am an entrepreneur and they respect me for it.

Family should trust you and support you unless you are doing something
to harm yourself or others. Trying a business venture and not doing so well
is not harming yourself or anyone... To those going through this, don't give up!

Tell your family that you need support and that you would support them if they
were following their dream.

Obviously, if you have a child and you need to feed your family, you'll need to
do something to supplement your income until you can do IM full time, but
don't let that get in the way of achieving your ultimate goal.

Best,
Shane

I don't even bother explaining because they won't understand. If I tried to explain, they'll still be confused as to how I'm able to make money from it. It'll seem "fishy" to them.

If they could be seen the revenue and profits compared to the work involved, they might think differently

I don't tell my family how much exactly I make ... well, they know I make money for myself and they stopped nagging me about getting a real job ...

(Some months I make more money than my dad who is mechanic and I am only going to expand)

Oh God, it just so hard to tell when i started my IM journey and how my family reacted against it? But now, my earnings a lot better so everything is fine now. All is well that ends well and it is true for every IM, i think so.

I remember I was really excited and told my mom that I was going to make money online, oh man big mistake. she said "oh please if it were that easy to make money online everyone would be doing it" just the way she said it man it really shot me down and set me back for like a year, in one fell swoop all my hopes just kinda vanished. Then I remember I told my friend and he said "yeah good luck with that" in a condescending way. I can't wait to show them what's up and when they come asking me how I do it I'ma tell them to GTFO

My children are supportive as long as I still spend quality time with them. And I find it helps with my fiance to show him how I have progressed then he feels that my time isn't being wasted on some crazy dream. I only started on May 11, 2011, haven't made any money yet -just started driving traffic and building my lists. It is an amazing industry and I do enjoy working on it.

It is definitely hard to justify it to friends and family when you are not making any money. I think once you make anything significant like $1000 per month, then they start to believe that it is possible. However when you're spending $1000 per month on training products and not making any money, they seem to have a real problem with that

Hey Justin,

I'm very close to you I'm a Tampa native.

Anyway, yes family has wondered what I'm really doing and have had their doubts. I think when you start showing them that it is a real business like any other and money starts coming in they are more understanding as a viable medium. I think of it as just a tool. There will always be skeptics I thin mostly from that bad reputation that the internet has in general. People hear about viruses all day and malware and then pop=up ads..etc and then on top of that are attacked by 'make money from home' scams . For these reasons maybe they are conditioned that making money online is not real.

My family, wonderful as they are, are as ignorant as they come when it comes to this business. It used to frustrate me, these days it's irrelevant.

My wife is supportive, and that certainly helps. But I gave up relying on family for any type of career support a long, long time ago.

Hope you don't mind if I wade in here with my own personal experience(s)!

Well, I had to move back in with my parents unfortunately when I returned from my previous job in Spain. Doesn't help for sanity, as they're completely bonkers.

However, I'm the one considered absolutely mad. Along with having to deal with the much-favoured "Why don't you get a real job?" mantra every day, they're seriously putting the squeeze on me now as they've seen no results that have impressed them. Not good, not ideal and I have to say, the incessant negativity towards it really does chip away at me.

I'm going to keep going though. I have to - I really don't want to be a failure and I want to prove myself right more than I want to prove them wrong, however sweet that'll be for all of 30 seconds or so.

I really do need to get crackin' though.

I don't think they think I'm crazy, rather I think that they don't think its lucrative. My family thinks in terms that the internet isn't as big as it is. They are old timers so its completely understandable.

My Dad to this day still doesn't think people click on Google Ads. He knows I make money online and he's happy I'm happy, but as far as trying to explain to him what I do I gave up a long time ago.

I've definitely been there as well. My spouse was not supportive at all in the beginning but after he started seeing the money coming in, he asked me why we hadn't found this in the first place haha. A lot of my close friends never had trust or thought I would succeed, but they were also my motivation to keep going because I didn't want them to say "I told you so" if I ended up failing.

Monica

It can intimidate and scare people who work 8-5 jobs, that you can make as much as they make without doing what they do. It's jealousy, really.

A year ago I thought I was gonna have a screenplay I wrote produced into a multi-million dollar movie. I garnered more self-respect and people suddenly acted like I was "productive". But even then I was cautious.

The deal fell through and I was back to internet marketing. Truth is, I'm glad it fell through. I don't want those scummy leaches in Hollywood touching my work. I'd rather continue doing IM until I can make enough to put together a team to produce my own scripts/movies locally and start small.

This way I can control it.

But, there will always be envious people that might come off as judgmental, but really they're just judging themselves and their own inability to "make it on their own" and pushing their doubts and fears on you.

I'm a teenage marketer. My parents think I'm crazy for spending do much time on the Internet. My dads been burned online before, with dumb schemes, and therefore does not really believe that IM can lead to a good income.

I'm here to prove him and everyone else wrong! And make lots of money....

Didn't take the internet to make my family think I'm nuts. They thought that before there were color tv's in most homes.

Justin

Brad here - thanks for the post - it brought out a lot of comments that are very helpful. Not too much support and a lot of dirty looks and complaints about never any time with the family.

The economy, government, inflation, whats left of our jobs - they all add up to a big red light warning us to keep working and trying new approaches. I have been listening to Tim Ferris 4hr work week. I got to admit - he has some fresh perspective I had not thought of before.

I just need more time to dedicate to changing my income base and life plan. The industrial model of 8 to 5 and worry all week end if you will have a job come Monday is very old.

I too am working to get something to stick. I guess everyone who has made it has stories. I appreciate everyone taking the time to help us work through this - it is lonely blazing new trails for our family.

Cheers !

Yes, my mum thought I was living in denial trying to "Make money online" and she reckoned I should get a proper job like a normal decent person... until I showed that I was earning more than her and my dad put together while working in my underpants...

Screw what other people think, be it your family or anyone else.

my family is supportive,in fact my wife work with me , but after 3 years my local friends think i am doing some kind of hacking or forex work.. but yaa now some of them want to learn how i am earning money ,

meh, I didnt even say anything to anyone when I started. The less people know about what you do, the better it is I guess. People will always have something to say so when no one knows what you are really doing, they cant say anything and it keeps them guessing.