A HUGE misconception about big income earners on the internet

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This is something important that came up in a conversation with one of my students and I want to share it with all of you.

A major course that was recently released by a major internet guru is currently teaching people to do as follows:

1) Figure out how much you want to make per year (e.g. $100K)

2) Figure out how much that is per month ($8333.33/month)

3) Figure out how much that is per day (approx. $275 per day)

The idea being that you then have a more "manageable" way of looking at earning that much money since it's easier to think about making $275 per day rather than $100K per year.

HOWEVER in the spirit of sharing what will truly help you succeed I need to tell you something...

This is NOT how most big earners approach their business - and it's absolutely NOT how the guru who promoted this product approaches their own business.

I know there will be certain successful Warriors who chime in here to say they do approach their business with a goal of making X per day. That's fine.

What I can tell you from personal experience in working with 6 and 7 figure marketers in major niches is most of them look to create big paydays, not daily trickles.

In case you need hard evidence look no further than your friendly neighborhood product launch and you will see this is the case.

It's true that they will often attach monthly continuity income to the main offer - but a majority of the time the product launch starts with a huge payday that can go into the 7 figures.

Some reading this will say, "Yes Ken but those guys had to work their way up to that level."

My response:

They only worked their way up to that level as a matter of mindset. Every one of them will tell you they could have approached it with big thinking from the start - and they would tell you if they had it to do over again they would.

Some reading this will say, "That's great Ken but I'm not 'ready' to play the IM game at that level" etc. etc................

My response:

That's just it. You ARE ready to play at that level. You simply need to approach your business that way instead of the way you're currently approaching it.

So how can you play the IM game at a high level rather than at the lower level? Here are a couple solid tips for you:

1) Actually choose an industry/niche

In talking with students and subscribers it amazes me how many people are out there "punting" with zero direction and no plan.

Until you have a niche or industry you want to serve with products, services or both, you will never build anything. It's that simple.

Truly choose a market to serve and you will be amazed at what starts to happen to your business.

2) Identify ultra successful marketers in your chosen niche and really study what they do.

Yes, I'm a broken record on this point but I can't emphasize it strongly enough:

The most successful marketers in EVERY niche are literally showing you what to do in THAT niche.

You don't have to guess "what works" or "what to do". They are handing it to you on a silver platter.

Become their prospect, even become their customer to some degree....and you will see exactly "what to do". Just watch what's being done to you.

Make sense? Now go get 'em.

Ken
__________
Ken Preuss
#big #earners #huge #income #internet #misconception
  • Makes a lot of sense. At the end of the day it is all about mindset and following through on what you believe is possible for you.

    Good post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnathan
    Hi,

    Good post, however I believe the point of the gurus probably trying to make is that $100,000 is not such a scary number. A lot of people seem to get scared by that number, especially if they are not in that position, and instead of approaching the business, they decide not to approach it at all. If I was trying to teach someone, the reason I would use $275 a day is because it's easier to identify with. Probably most people looking at this program, haven't yet made $100,000 in a year. However, they've probably made $275 in a month, in two weeks, in a week, or even a few days from the 'regular' paycheque. So they're able to focus and identify with what it feels like to make $275. Once they get that in their mind, and they can make $275 in one day, then it becomes easy to repeat that process.

    Of course it is a great idea to think big. However for some people, it's too scary, so starting with a smaller number, is much easier.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
      Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post

      Hi,

      good post, however I believe the point of the gurus probably trying to make is that $100,000 is not such a scary number. a lot of people seem to get scared by that number, especially if they are not in that position, and instead of approaching the business, they decide not to approach it at all. if I was trying to teach someone, the reason I've used $275 a day is because it's easier to identify with. Probably most people looking at this program, haven't yet made $100,000 in a year. However, they've probably made $275 in a month, in two weeks, in a week, or even a few days. So they're able to focus and identify with what it feels like to make $275. Once they get that in their mind, and they can make $275 in one day, then it becomes easy to repeat that process.

      Of course it is a great idea to think big. However for some people, it's too scary, so starting with a smaller number, is much easier.
      I agree with what you're saying in theory. However let's look at what happens in reality:

      Most people can't maintain earning $275 every single day. So they essentially FAIL at playing the game that's been presented to them.

      Personally I can teach someone to make $5-10K in one shot *way* more easily than I can teach them to make a few hundred dollars a day. Part of that is my own skill set and the way I approach IM - I freely admit this affects my viewpoint.

      But as someone who has trained thousands of people and gotten tons of feedback on this issue, my sense is most people cannot maintain (or are not willing to maintain) whatever process would have had them consistently earning $XXX.XX every single day.

      Case in point - someone like Steven Wagenheim who I respect greatly and does earn several hundred plus per day.

      I would never work as hard as that guy does and I freely admit it. But then again most people won't work that hard.

      My point is that no one has to. With a shift in mindset and viewpoint people can earn that much and more with less work.

      Ken
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

        Most people can't maintain earning $275 every single day.
        Ken

        But some people can. It is the way they think.

        There is nothing wrong with teaching people the way you do. That is awesome!

        But some people get the idea of a 4-figures-or-nothing approach, and that can be disheartening, too.

        Here is my theory - if you have someone making a few hundred dollars a day consistently, sooner or later they will be making 4 figures a day - and more. They almost have to - because they will get better at what they do!
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
          Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

          But some people can. It is the way they think.

          There is nothing wrong with teaching people the way you do. That is awesome!

          But some people get the idea of a 4-figures-or-nothing approach, and that can be disheartening, too.

          Here is my theory - if you have someone making a few hundred dollars a day consistently, sooner or later they will be making 4 figures a day - and more. They almost have to - because they will get better at what they do!
          I certainly see your point - and respect the heck out of it because I know you are one who is now doing a consistent three figures per day.

          So.....to serve the point of my original post:

          If you are reading this and want to earn a consistent three figures per day, Shay is a model to follow. Study what she's doing, learn from her and duplicate what she's doing to earn that much for herself.



          Ken
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          • Profile picture of the author ShayB
            Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

            I certainly see your point - and respect the heck out of it because I know you are one who is now doing a consistent three figures per day.

            So.....to serve the point of my original post:

            If you are reading this and want to earn a consistent three figures per day, Shay is a model to follow. Study what she's doing, learn from her and duplicate what she's doing to earn that much for herself.



            Ken
            *blush*

            Thanks, Ken!
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      • Profile picture of the author ss442
        You are right Ken, I've received offers over the last few weeks from John Reese, the Stompernet Boys and a few others. And I am sure there are more to come as these big guys start the year off with a big bang.

        I'm still waiting for my big check fron the "Texas Attorney General" from the last program where I spent money, where I should have used brains and hard work.

        Ed
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post


        Case in point - someone like Steven Wagenheim who I respect greatly and does earn several hundred plus per day.

        I would never work as hard as that guy does and I freely admit it. But then again most people won't work that hard.
        Please listen to Ken. He is dead on the money.

        There are way easier ways to make big money online.

        Anybody, and I mean anybody, can put together a plan for a product
        within a niche and using something like Jeff Walkers Product Launch
        Formula can easily make 6 figures in a single month, even in a 24 hour
        period.

        And if you have tons of ideas and are willing to outsource to get things
        done, you can do this every single month.

        It all comes down to mindset and what you're willing to accept as
        reality.


        Excellent post Ken.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Please listen to Ken. He is dead on the money.

          There are way easier ways to make big money online.

          Anybody, and I mean anybody, can put together a plan for a product
          within a niche and using something like Jeff Walkers Product Launch
          Formula can easily make 6 figures in a single month, even in a 24 hour
          period.

          And if you have tons of ideas and are willing to outsource to get things
          done, you can do this every single month.

          It all comes down to mindset and what you're willing to accept as
          reality.


          Excellent post Ken.
          Gotta say Wagenheim, I was mildly shocked to read this.

          Not sure what I expected your response to be, but I sure didn't expect full out agreement. After all what you do works well for you and plenty of others.

          Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author RockstarBen
    That is solid advice. I am a firm believer in the limitations we set on ourselves. Who tells you that you can't aim high? Probably you - Stop it and go for it!
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    • Profile picture of the author roderick
      There is a difference between gross and net profit. It doesn't mean nothing if someone make $1 million per year gross profit and their net profit is $100 hundred thousand a year.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
        Originally Posted by roderick View Post

        There is a difference between gross and net profit. It doesn't mean nothing if someone make $1 million per year gross profit and their net profit is $100 hundred thousand a year.
        Understood but I'm not talking technicalities here. I'm talking about how people break down and justify to themselves what's possible vs. not possible in terms of making money online.

        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author ShayB
          Ken, I agree with the mindset part.

          But I know that I realized that I could make 6 figures in a year the day I made $300 in 24 hours. And $500+.

          Breaking it down and analyzing what I did for those $300 days and beyond is helping me achieve 6 figures this year.

          Had I just tried to make $10,000 or $12,000 in one shot, I may have gotten discouraged or made huge (costly) mistakes.

          Do I believe 5 and 6 figure days are in my future? Absolutely.

          But I think mindset can be changed in increments.

          JMHO

          YMMV
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          • Profile picture of the author roderick
            People forget the amount of hard work that is needed to make the big money
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      • Profile picture of the author Corwinnx
        "If you're going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

        -Donald Trump, "The Art Of The Deal"

        This is an excellent post Ken.

        There are two types of 'tunnel vision.' The good kind, and the bad kind.

        Good kind: "I'm in a hole, but there's a rope and the footprints of someone who climbed out, and he's standing at the top telling me where the footprints are in case I miss one. So I'm climbing and I'm not looking ANYWHERE but at those prints or up at him"

        Bad kind: "Hey.. YOU.... UP THERE..... COULD YOU HELP ME CLIMB OUT OF THIS HOLE? BUT... WAIT... FIRST... COME DOWN HERE... LOOK AT MY HOLE... YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS FROM 'MY PERSPECTIVE"

        Problem with the 'Bad kind," No one wants to look at the hole. Especially the guy who climbed out before you. He climbed out for a reason.

        "He Didn't Want To Look At The Hole"

        LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO BE, NOT WHERE YOU ARE
        -Marcus
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      • Profile picture of the author Shannon Herod
        hey Ken,

        Great post. But, I think you're forgetting one thing.

        One of my favorite quotes is by Napoleon Hill...

        "What the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve"

        I love that quote because it is so true. Most people cannot think as big as you are talking. Why? Because they cannot believe it or conceive it.

        So, if they take your train of thought they will be setting themselves up for failure from the very beginning.

        I'm actually a person who breaks down goals the same way you described. To be honest, if you wouldn't have put in big-name guru into your post I would have thought you were speaking about me because I just did a tele-seminar on this very subject.

        Anyway, the point is... to earn $275 a day is a more believable number than $100,000 a year. Granted they both equal the same thing, but most people can grasp $275. Why? because they have seen it, most people have held that amount of money in her hand.

        So it is very real.

        Most people have never even seen $100,000. They don't know what it looks like, they don't know what it feels like. So in turn they can not believe that they can achieve it.

        So the guru you are talking about is dead on in my opinion. He is speaking at a level that you obviously cannot understand because you are such a big thinker. That is great. But, most people are not like you and I.

        They need to think small to start and then work their way up to big thinking. Actually, I'm probably a very good example of that.

        There is no way I would ever have thought I could make the type of money I'm making now. But, as I worked my way through this marketing game I started to believe the bigger and bigger numbers.

        It was not until I could believe and conceive the bigger numbers that I was able to achieve them.

        So, you are correct in many ways, but in my opinion, you are wrong in the ways as well. It depends on the person. It depends on their belief. It depends on what they've achieved in the past.

        Most importantly it depends on what they can believe and conceive in their own mind.


        Regards,

        Shannon Herod
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
          Originally Posted by Shannon Herod View Post

          hey Ken,

          Great post. But, I think you're forgetting one thing.

          One of my favorite quotes is by Napoleon Hill...

          "What the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve"

          I love that quote because it is so true. Most people cannot think as big as you are talking. Why? Because they cannot believe it or conceive it.

          So, if they take your train of thought they will be setting themselves up for failure from the very beginning.

          I'm actually a person who breaks down goals the same way you described. To be honest, if you wouldn't have put in big-name guru into your post I would have thought you were speaking about me because I just did a tele-seminar on this very subject.

          Anyway, the point is... to earn $275 a day is a more believable number than $100,000 a year. Granted they both equal the same thing, but most people can grasp $275. Why? because they have seen it, most people have held that amount of money in her hand.

          So it is very real.

          Most people have never even seen $100,000. They don't know what it looks like, they don't know what it feels like. So in turn they can not believe that they can achieve it.

          So the guru you are talking about is dead on in my opinion. He is speaking at a level that you obviously cannot understand because you are such a big thinker. That is great. But, most people are not like you and I.

          They need to think small to start and then work their way up to big thinking. Actually, I'm probably a very good example of that.

          There is no way I would ever have thought I could make the type of money I'm making now. But, as I worked my way through this marketing game I started to believe the bigger and bigger numbers.

          It was not until I could believe and conceive the bigger numbers that I was able to achieve them.

          So, you are correct in many ways, but in my opinion, you are wrong in the ways as well. It depends on the person. It depends on their belief. It depends on what they've achieved in the past.

          Most importantly it depends on what they can believe and conceive in their own mind.


          Regards,

          Shannon Herod
          Shannon,

          One thing I've realized is I'm about to alter people's belief systems about what's possible. I'm not always effective at it and I realize it's a tall task. Years and years of conditioned beliefs are tough to "undo" with a post let alone a course or training.

          You are correct that it indeed depends upon the person. Extremely valuable points and insights. Greatly appreciated.

          Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Hi Ken,

    When I was a carpet cleaner I worked for as little as $7 a room.

    The state of California paid me to train a guy on welfare how to clean carpets so he could get off of welfare.

    I taught him everything I knew or so I thought.

    I saw him a year after his training and he was driving a big new van with state of the art carpet cleaning equipment.

    I asked him, "How did you afford all of this?"

    He said he only worked for the richest of customers and only charged very high prices.

    I exclaimed, "You can't do that!." "You have to start at the bottom and work your way to the top."

    He just looked puzzled and said. "George, you never taught me that."


    George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author Michelle Jayes
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      Hi Ken,

      When I was a carpet cleaner I worked for as little as $7 a room.

      The state of California paid me to train a guy on welfare how to clean carpets so he could get off of welfare.

      I taught him everything I knew or so I thought.

      I saw him a year after his training and he was driving a big new van with state of the art carpet cleaning equipment.

      I asked him, "How did you afford all of this?"

      He said he only worked for the richest of customers and only charged very high prices.

      I exclaimed, "You can't do that!." "You have to start at the bottom and work your way to the top."

      He just looked puzzled and said. "George, you never taught me that."


      George Wright
      Hi George

      You make a good point here. It is definitely the way we think that determines our success or failure. If nobody has ever told you that you can't do something then you have no reason to believe other than that you can do it.

      Michelle Jayes
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  • Profile picture of the author sevenish
    George, that's priceless.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Ken:

      I have to disagree with everything, starting with several premises in your post.

      Initially, the "big earning" gurus you refer to appear to only be in the IM niche. What I see happening is that many of these "gurus" are simply PUMPING AND DUMPING products - mainly to newbies, the ignorant, the desperate, and of course the simply curious and those who are smart enough to profitably apply that little extra gold nugget they hope to find.

      That is why their "business" is built on product launches.

      A "real" business creates real products and does not rely on artificial supply restrictions by limiting the number of products sold. Other than IM 'gurus' - how many businesses do you see do that? Very few to none.

      That is because they are creating real products with real value - products that customers will recommend to their friends so sales can be made over and over for a long time.

      If you broaden your focus to the wide Internet, and not the narrow IM guru field, you will find boatloads of people making more than these 'gurus' make. A lot more.

      And they do look at it incrementally. How much can product x when added to their product line increase their overall sales volume? How can they shave another 5 percent off their supplier costs?

      So I strongly disagree about where the big money is being made - unless your vantage point is who makes money selling to the IM crowd - and then I agree with you.

      But don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting the absurd analysis so often mentioned about making $10 a day doing something, and then if you only rinse and repeat for 1000 websites think about how much you'll be making! That also never works.

      Finally, I'll let you in on a little secret. A number of 'high rolling' IMers have come through my law office the last few years with legal woes. Some claiming online to be millionaires. The fact is, they're broke. If I were you, I wouldn't trust any income claims, pictures, etc., online from anyone.

      And by the way, that "major" course by a "major" guru "now" teaching out dividing a yearly goal into daily increments - go back 5 years or more - and you'll find the exact same information being taught.

      One final way of thinking about this ... is to look at the forum you're on. Think about who owns it. Think about what he does to make his dough. You won't find a lot of big product launches, even though he darn well could have.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        Ken:

        I have to disagree with everything, starting with several premises in your post.

        Initially, the "big earning" gurus you refer to appear to only be in the IM niche. What I see happening is that many of these "gurus" are simply PUMPING AND DUMPING products - mainly to newbies, the ignorant, the desperate, and of course the simply curious and those who are smart enough to profitably apply that little extra gold nugget they hope to find.

        That is why their "business" is built on product launches.

        A "real" business creates real products and does not rely on artificial supply restrictions by limiting the number of products sold. Other than IM 'gurus' - how many businesses do you see do that? Very few to none.

        That is because they are creating real products with real value - products that customers will recommend to their friends so sales can be made over and over for a long time.

        If you broaden your focus to the wide Internet, and not the narrow IM guru field, you will find boatloads of people making more than these 'gurus' make. A lot more.

        And they do look at it incrementally. How much can product x when added to their product line increase their overall sales volume? How can they shave another 5 percent off their supplier costs?

        So I strongly disagree about where the big money is being made - unless your vantage point is who makes money selling to the IM crowd - and then I agree with you.

        But don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting the absurd analysis so often mentioned about making $10 a day doing something, and then if you only rinse and repeat for 1000 websites think about how much you'll be making! That also never works.

        Finally, I'll let you in on a little secret. A number of 'high rolling' IMers have come through my law office the last few years with legal woes. Some claiming online to be millionaires. The fact is, they're broke. If I were you, I wouldn't trust any income claims, pictures, etc., online from anyone.

        And by the way, that "major" course by a "major" guru "now" teaching out dividing a yearly goal into daily increments - go back 5 years or more - and you'll find the exact same information being taught.

        One final way of thinking about this ... is to look at the forum you're on. Think about who owns it. Think about what he does to make his dough. You won't find a lot of big product launches, even though he darn well could have.
        I respect your contribution greatly while acknowledging that we each have two different vantage points on it.

        You have your own experience. I certainly respect that.

        I have mine - and what mine tells me is there are many of these guys doing *extremely* well. I've JV'd with some of them (not IM gurus but others) - I know what they've made and I know what I've made.

        Are there folks out there who are passing themselves off as something they're not? Absolutely. Are there folks out there who are rehashing information based on the ever-replenishing crop of newbies entering the market? Yes. I don't condone either approach.

        But as for what defines a "real" business, there isn't a single definition for that other than what we each decide that is for ourselves.

        All of that said I do appreciate your perspective.

        Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Nyerere
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    • Profile picture of the author dail
      Excellent point Roderick. It is easy to make turnover or gross sales but very few offer how much it has cost them to make those sales (COGS).

      Basic Accounting 101: Revenue Less COGS = Nett (Profit/Loss)

      It is similar to a gambler who is readily avails how much he has won, but never how much he has lost.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Originally Posted by Nyerere View Post

      There are many ways to skin a cat.

      JKN
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      - No Pictures please.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    If you have the confidence, creativity, and ability to create a product that people will buy - always do a launch for it. It doesn't matter what niche you're in, a product launch will give you a surge of cash up front and huge momentum for your business. Heck, I'd say launch it and then relaunch it if you can.

    Who says that you have to limit your product to a certain quantity? You can use scarcity just as effectively with a price discount based on quantity or time. Then you can keep selling the product at the regular price.

    It's also a big misconception that launches are mainly an IM niche thing. I've done many launches in 8 years online but only one small internal launch in the IM niche (so far). I know many others who do launches outside of the IM niche as well to jumpstart their business.

    I don't think there is any argument that you will make more money if you leverage the efforts of many (affiliates) instead of just relying on your own efforts.

    For those who don't create products, there is nothing wrong with setting a daily goal for youself. In a way I guess you have to because it's not as likely to see a large surge in orders as an affiliate or content site as you would with a product launch.
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  • Profile picture of the author kctang
    I think what can be learned from all this discussion boils down to 2 points.

    You can think about hitting your money goals online 2 different ways:

    a) Make a lump sum of dough by creating waves of influxes of cash, whether that's $100 or $1 million, by product launches on a cyclical basis (like the IM gurus)

    b) Make an ongoing revenue stream, by setting up marketing/advertising systems that give you an continuous stream of incoming leads


    I don't think one's better than the other, it's just a matter of which method suits your industry and also your personal style.

    If your niche is like IM, where new information gets old fast (in the eyes of the customer, at least), and/or you yourself get tired in a niche fast...

    Then don't set an expectation of x dollars per day.

    If your niche can be drilled for complexity, and you like the idea of supporting that niche longterm on the backend... then you can goal set by means of making x dollars per day.


    The bottom line is, both ways of thinking are making people big money... why restrict a person's options by saying one is better than the other?

    They are both successful money making strategies...

    Yall just gotta pick the one you like and run with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author briankoz
    Actually, I would caution against thinking that the big time earners focus most of their time on one day. Sometimes when we're hearing about all these product launches in the internet marketing niche, we tend to think that's the only way of making money. The majority of the most successful businesses that I know of make good money every single day and don't focus nearly as much on that initial first launch day.

    I know a lot of internet marketers and can tell you that many are looking for ways to get into more of every day income instead of just relying on the big launches.

    And as a side note, I think we sometimes focus too much on "the big launch" instead of what you can do by yourself without any JV partners to sustain a long lasting income.

    Just some food for thought.

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
      Originally Posted by briankoz View Post

      Actually, I would caution against thinking that the big time earners focus most of their time on one day. Sometimes when we're hearing about all these product launches in the internet marketing niche, we tend to think that's the only way of making money. The majority of the most successful businesses that I know of make good money every single day and don't focus nearly as much on that initial first launch day.

      I know a lot of internet marketers and can tell you that many are looking for ways to get into more of every day income instead of just relying on the big launches.

      And as a side note, I think we sometimes focus too much on "the big launch" instead of what you can do by yourself without any JV partners to sustain a long lasting income.

      Just some food for thought.

      Brian
      Good point. I gave product launches as the main example, true. But I'm also talking about joint ventures.

      When I leaped up to mid-five figures per month it was because I was doing one JV per week, usually in the form of a teleclass promotion.

      We'd send three to four e-mails announcing a teleclass, get a bunch of people on the call, then typically do anywhere from $10K-$20K in revenue on every call call. Again, we did this once a week.

      The other days of the week I wasn't making a dime. But I wasn't complaining.

      So yes, there are more ways than doing product launches to have bigger paydays.

      Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author dsiomtw
    No offense to the original poster, but one of the biggest problems newbies face is that so called "experts" go around spouting things as facts when in reality they are not. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

    Product launches are just one way to make "big" money. I'll give you another...

    There are plenty of "under the radar" CPA marketers/affiliates that make millions a year by grinding out $5-20k a day (or more) in profits. Every single day. The exact opposite of what you're saying.

    And the absolute truth of the matter is that most of these underground "elite" marketers make more than your gurus doing their over-hyped product launches.

    So you are right that product launches are one way to make a lot of money. But you are wrong to say it's the only or even the best way to make a lot of money online.

    CPA and lead gen works for me. Once you have a system in place it can be 98% automated (which product launches can't), and it's actually a lot less work then creating products and doing product launches.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
      Originally Posted by dsiomtw View Post

      No offense to the original poster, but one of the biggest problems newbies face is that so called "experts" go around spouting things as facts when in reality they are not. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

      Product launches are just one way to make "big" money. I'll give you another...

      There are plenty of "under the radar" CPA marketers/affiliates that make millions a year by grinding out $5-20k a day (or more) in profits. Every single day. The exact opposite of what you're saying.

      And the absolute truth of the matter is that most of these underground "elite" marketers make more than your gurus doing their over-hyped product launches.

      So you are right that product launches are one way to make a lot of money. But you are wrong to say it's the only or even the best way to make a lot of money online.

      CPA and lead gen works for me. Once you have a system in place it can be 98% automated (which product launches can't), and it's actually a lot less work then creating products and doing product launches.
      How about reading the entire context of my original post?

      The post was not about product launches. If you go back and read it I simply gave that as an example. The post is about people thinking BIGGER about what's possible and not looking at things just one way (e.g. making $X per day).

      You pointed out the CPA example. Well I would say the same thing to people who want to go that route, which is model the big thinkers instead of playing small.

      So guess what? You and I actually agree.

      Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    I agree with Ken that most beginning marketers think too small and that limits their success.

    But I think the golden nugget in his post has nothing to do with product launches. It's to pick a niche and look at your successful competitors. They're the key to your customers, to your product, to your marketing, and to your sales.

    Before starting a business, if I had to make a choice between surveying my customers or having a complete analysis of my most successful competitors, I'd take the competitive analysis any day. Because the customer information is already built in.

    In my opinion, that's the place to start when you want to build a successful, extremely profitable business. Don't confuse the path to profitability with techniques like product launches.

    You need to know what to launch and to whom to launch first.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
      Originally Posted by Popstar View Post

      I agree with Ken that most beginning marketers think too small and that limits their success.

      But I think the golden nugget in his post has nothing to do with product launches. It's to pick a niche and look at your successful competitors. They're the key to your customers, to your product, to your marketing, and to your sales.

      Before starting a business, if I had to make a choice between surveying my customers or having a complete analysis of my most successful competitors, I'd take the competitive analysis any day. Because the customer information is already built in.

      In my opinion, that's the place to start when you want to build a successful, extremely profitable business. Don't confuse the path to profitability with techniques like product launches.

      You need to know what to launch and to whom to launch first.
      Your bolded quote above is DEAD ON.

      What you stated is *entirely* what this thread is about - realizing that the successful competition in *any* niche is showing people how to operate at a much higher level in that niche than they may be currently settling for.

      I'm glad the true point came through to you and hopefully many others.

      Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author imaddict
    Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

    What I can tell you from personal experience in working with 6 and 7 figure marketers in major niches is most of them look to create big paydays, not daily trickles.
    And that's exactly why there's a crappy overpriced launch every week. Because the "big boys" are product launch addicts. They don't have a business, they have 'paydays.' But cash runs out (usually very fast). On the other hand, if you have $xxx/day coming in like clockwork you have an ASSET that you can sustain and grow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ngmedia805
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Steven,

      Please listen to Ken. He is dead on the money.

      There are way easier ways to make big money online.

      Anybody, and I mean anybody, can put together a plan for a product
      within a niche and using something like Jeff Walkers Product Launch
      Formula can easily make 6 figures in a single month, even in a 24 hour
      period.

      And if you have tons of ideas and are willing to outsource to get things
      done, you can do this every single month.

      It all comes down to mindset and what you're willing to accept as
      reality.
      What exactly are you basing these statements upon?

      ....................

      Hi Ken,

      Every post you make/thread you start seems to imply that you are making huge money. You make a lot of claims -

      What I can tell you from personal experience in working with 6 and 7 figure marketers in major niches is most of them look to create big paydays, not daily trickles.
      Personally I can teach someone to make $5-10K in one shot *way* more easily than I can teach them to make a few hundred dollars a day. Part of that is my own skill set and the way I approach IM
      as someone who has trained thousands of people
      I've JV'd with some of them (not IM gurus but others) - I know what they've made and I know what I've made.
      When I leaped up to mid-five figures per month it was because I was doing one JV per week, usually in the form of a teleclass promotion.

      We'd send three to four e-mails announcing a teleclass, get a bunch of people on the call, then typically do anywhere from $10K-$20K in revenue on every call call. Again, we did this once a week.
      And these are all from this one thread.

      You also say -

      Are there folks out there who are passing themselves off as something they're not? Absolutely
      How do we know that this is not what you are doing Ken?

      For someone who makes such outrageous claims in every single thread they start, and for someone who has a sig line saying 'the truth about how to build a million dollar internet business', and always seems to have the same theme running through their threads - (this one) -

      They only worked their way up to that level as a matter of mindset.[snip]You ARE ready to play at that level. You simply need to approach your business that way instead of the way you're currently approaching it.
      ...which, incidentally is very close to the same cult-building techniques used in 'the secret' -

      I find it strange that no-one appears to have any idea who you are, what you've done, what you are doing etc etc. They say that 'success leaves clues'. Where are these clues Ken?

      Perhaps you could enlighten us? And I don't mean rolling out the 'I made 5 figures in 56 days in the real estate niche'. Your claims go way beyond that.

      .................

      It's interesting to note some of the comments here by others.

      This is a great post!

      Just look at stuff like Jeff Walkers Product Launch Formula...it's ALL about the big payday.

      Same with all the "million dollar launches". It's all about a big, massive payday...
      Am I the only person who has noticed that on this ever-changing, fast-paced internet, the product launch formula is now quite an ageing product (yes I know it has been 'updated') and that most of the IM gurus have actually moved on from the 'big launch with front-end profits' to a launch with much less buzz and social proof beforehand, but instead using massive blanket exposure AT launch time via JVs, often taking a loss on the front-end, but with a continuity model mainly designed to extract the physical address and phone number?

      And for the record, this is my view as a casual observer, not because I am in the pockets of the gurus, JVing with them.

      I thought Kindsvater's post was the most informative. In particular -

      If I were you, I wouldn't trust any income claims, pictures, etc., online from anyone.
      ...and of course -

      One final way of thinking about this ... is to look at the forum you're on. Think about who owns it. Think about what he does to make his dough. You won't find a lot of big product launches, even though he darn well could have.
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      • Profile picture of the author Hardi Wijaya
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        with a continuity model mainly designed to extract the physical address and phone number?
        You take away the communication via Internet, you'll remove lots of competitions online. It can be costly. Big players know it, but they've the money to do it. The wannabes, the pretenders etc etc will tell the opposite.


        Hardi
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        • Profile picture of the author Magic Johnson
          I think both methods could work IF you know what you are doing. Both lump sums and small $ daily goals.

          The thing which don't work is stateing outright "I'm going to make $100,000 before 2010"

          It never works this way unless you have a PLAN in mind. You can't EVER begin with the end goal. You will let money get to your head, i will bet 9 our 10 times of 11 you never gets started to proceed.

          PLAN-LAUNCH-SEE SALES

          Then you can have your first months sales or launches as milestone for coming months or launches.

          Seems logical?, just to put down the pressure.

          I don't know, personally I try to think less about big figures
          and more about serving a market.

          Also I see ExRat brings up some good points.

          Even though I agree with 80% of what Ken says on WF, we could live with a little
          more background
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Ken,

        Every post you make/thread you start seems to imply that you are making huge money. You make a lot of claims....

        For someone who makes such outrageous claims in every single thread they start, and for someone who has a sig line saying 'the truth about how to build a million dollar internet business', and always seems to have the same theme running through their threads...

        I find it strange that no-one appears to have any idea who you are, what you've done, what you are doing etc etc. They say that 'success leaves clues'. Where are these clues Ken?

        Perhaps you could enlighten us? And I don't mean rolling out the 'I made 5 figures in 56 days in the real estate niche'. Your claims go way beyond that.
        Boy Roger, you've had it out for me since day one haven't you?

        The majority of my posts here are FAR less about what I've done and FAR more about what's possible for others. However for people to see it's possible, yes I reference things I've been able to accomplish.

        Guess what Roger? That inspires a lot of people. It may not inspire you. That's fine. But don't throw bricks because of it.

        There are many people here who talk about what they've done. Heck, one quarter of the posts on the main page are usually someone saying "Here's how I made $X in X days."

        I've never started a post like that. You know why? The way I've done things is not for everyone. I freely admit that in virtually every post I make. But I stand by what I've done and I stand by what I teach 100% for those who choose it is applicable to them.

        For some reason you seem to want my resume. I'm curious what constitutes proof for you Roger? What people SAY about themselves? Or what they've actually done?

        Hint: you can see a lot of what I've done by searching Google.

        Since you're not willing to check it out yourself I'll make it easy for you:

        - Got started in IM by accident in '04- already owned a RE investing business and a service business - I had come upon a summer where my income was low and was looking for something to supplement
        - Bought a couple e-books and decided to just get going
        - Generated a list of 91 people and sold about two dozen of them a $395 training course, several of them a $795 mentoring course - did all that over the course of two months
        - After a great start, I struggled to maintain things and hit a glass ceiling - was working ridiculous hours on the internet in addition to my RE investing
        - Did some coaching for a 7-figure marketer's real estate students - occasionally he and I would get a chance to talk - he taught me incredible things about what was holding me back (the very same things I teach on this forum)
        - Taking what he taught me within a few months I reached mid five figures per month
        - Joint ventured with the following RE marketers on my $495 foreclosure training course plus an outsourced back end (and sold their products to my list as well): Larry Goins, Chris Daigle, Tom Kish, Graham Treakle, Lou Castillo, Mark Sumpter, Dave Lindahl, Lance Young, Dean Edelson, Jerry Hoganson, Claude Diamond, Donna Fox, Jillian Wheeler, Matt Gillogly, Ryan Tewis, Michelle Odyssey and I'm probably forgetting a few... (feel free to verify this with every one of them)
        - Marketed and sold the proprietary real estate method of another investor for $50K - we sold close to 100 of them over the course of 9 months - he now markets that method himself (my name is on Ripoff Report for God's sake....if that's not a stamp of honor )
        - For the past two years I've coached people in a number of different online niches - make money online/IM, life coaching, business coaching, real estate, speaking & consulting (I've also coached offline business owners in financial services, dance studio, school suppliers and a couple franchise owners)
        - Moved into the IM niche myself in 2008 to share that it's possible for people to earn five figures per month on the internet in niches most people say are "impossible" based on what I've done

        What more would you like Roger? I could go on all day long.

        Outrageous claims? Wrong. Cult-building strategies? Give me a break. When I post here it comes from one thing: personal experience.

        If you don't like what I post ignore it. But don't throw bricks. I've got a deep resume to back up every word of advice I give here.

        Respectfully,
        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
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          Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

          I've got a deep resume to back up every word of advice I give here.
          Might be a good time to show everyone then.
          A little proof goes a long way.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
            Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

            Might be a good time to show everyone then.
            A little proof goes a long way.
            Did you even read the post? I gave a synopsis of my entire resume. Every single post I write has to do with my experience from that list.

            Search my name on Google and verify it. Contact every name I gave of people I've JV'd with. Knock yourself out.

            This is a forum where people share views based on their experience. So I share mine. Like everything else posted on this forum, you are free to take it or leave it.

            'Nuff said.

            Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author tomw
          Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

          Boy Roger, you've had it out for me since day one haven't you?
          P.S. We tend to say "had it IN for me."

          Based upon my friend Roger's reputation around here for being a bit of a player, I shudder to think what he had out for you...



          Thomas
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          • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
            Originally Posted by tomw View Post

            P.S. We tend to say "had it IN for me."

            Based upon my friend Roger's reputation around here for being a bit of a player, I shudder to think what he had out for you...



            Thomas
            Now THAT'S funny. Thomas we may not agree on everything but we sure as heck have the same sense of humor.



            Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Ken,

          Generally, I enjoy reading your posts and often agree with the sentiments.

          But..

          Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

          he taught me incredible things about what was holding me back (the very same things I teach on this forum)
          Maybe it's just me, but that statement in bold seems a bit presumptuous - especially from someone who entered the IM niche in 2008.

          And when it has already been pointed out in this thread that there are other ways to be successful than the product launch payday model you espouse in your OP.

          You then say..

          - Moved into the IM niche in 2008 to share that it's possible for people to earn five figures per month on the internet in niches most people say are "impossible" based on what I've done
          Well, five figures per month certainly is possible. In fact, that's around $350 per day - which is what you were saying in your OP shouldn't be taught :confused:

          Bottom line: there are many roads to success and it's worthwhile to hear different perspectives; but ultimately, IM students have to believe in the method and that it is truly achievable for themselves.



          Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            Ken,

            Generally, I enjoy reading your posts and often agree with the sentiments.

            But..



            Maybe it's just me, but that statement in bold seems a bit presumptuous - especially from someone who entered the IM niche in 2008.

            And when it has already been pointed out in this thread that there are other ways to be successful than the product launch payday model you espouse in your OP.

            You then say..



            Well, five figures per month certainly is possible. In fact, that's around $350 per day - which is what you were saying in your OP shouldn't be taught :confused:

            Bottom line: there are many roads to success and it's worthwhile to hear different perspectives; but ultimately, IM students have to believe in the method and that it is truly achievable for themselves.



            Frank
            I appreciate your comments. For the third time on this thread let me state this:

            This thread is NOT about product launches. It's about viewing your business bigger than you currently are.

            I simply gave product launches as one example of how it's possible to "go big" in a short time rather than approaching things from trying to make $XXX.XX per day.

            Finally, lets be clear about semantics. I've been doing IM since 2004, mainly in front of the real estate niche. I simply started teaching in 2008 what I've been doing since 2004.

            Not sure how that's confusing.

            Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author dsiomtw
    How about reading the entire context of my original post?
    I did read your "stated-as-fact" original post. The jist of it was your claim that:

    What I can tell you from personal experience in working with 6 and 7 figure marketers in major niches is most of them look to create big paydays, not daily trickles.
    Maybe that's your personal experience, but my point is that REAL marketers, people that sell real stuff and not just "how to make money online" junk, generally don't do what you're talking about.

    They build real businesses that generate consistent and usually growing daily profits, and don't count on over-hyped "one and done" product launches to make their money.

    Could any of these "gurus" that rely on product launches sell their "business"? Are they even building any valuable assets, aside from maybe their customer lists? Generally speaking the answer is no. They can't sell their business because 1) they ARE their business, and 2) they don't have consistent and scalable revenue streams. Can you name a single IM "guru" that could actually sell their "business" for more than the value of their customer list? Doubt it.

    The guys I run with get buyout offers all the time, because we build site and real businesses that generate ongoing consistent profits, without anyone even knowing who we are.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    Hi Roger, I find it mind boggling that someone can train thousands of people. Unless it is some sort of corporate box lifting workshop, I just don't see how anyone could have the time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Hi Ken

      I have to go with Brian and Roger on this one.

      There's a slight flaw in teaching the big payday "product launch" method. In practice, this can only work for a very small percentage of your students.

      Your 1000s of students couldn't each become gurus - we'd have hundreds of major launches every day (although, it does sometimes seem like this ).

      While, in theory, anyone could do this, in practice a guru, by definition, is an exceptional person. Therefore it's not a business model that could realistically work for the majority of your students.

      Outside of the IM niche, there are countless internet businesses steadily turning over $500+ per day. When you can demonstrate regular, predictable, consistent profits, you have a tangible asset which, if you wish, could be sold for anywhere between 10 and 36 times the monthly income.

      That is your "big payday".

      And it's a model that's truly achievable by everyone.

      You certainly have a point about mindset. People have to believe in the big figures - but they also need to "buy into" the route they can practically take to get to those paydays.

      The typical, over-hyped "product launch" method is becoming tired but, more important, it's just that bit beyond the "believability threshold" for most IM students.


      Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author roderick
        Cpa seems to be the way to make big money now
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Hi Steven,

        Quote:
        Please listen to Ken. He is dead on the money.

        There are way easier ways to make big money online.

        Anybody, and I mean anybody, can put together a plan for a product
        within a niche and using something like Jeff Walkers Product Launch
        Formula can easily make 6 figures in a single month, even in a 24 hour
        period.

        And if you have tons of ideas and are willing to outsource to get things
        done, you can do this every single month.

        It all comes down to mindset and what you're willing to accept as
        reality.

        What exactly are you basing these statements upon?
        Hi Roger:

        Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this. I don't spend as much
        time here as I used to.

        I base this on what I see with my own two eyes.

        Just recently (and I am sure others here will know what I'm talking about)
        there was a video of somebody outside of IM using Jeff Walkers PLF
        formula. They showed in real time, how much money came in in like a 15
        minute period of time for a seminar.

        It was something like $50,000 or more. I don't remember the exact
        amount. Maybe somebody who remembers the video I'm talking about
        can post it.

        I'm not saying I agree with or like the tactics used for these launches (the
        slow build up, the hype, the scarcity leading to the mad rush at the 11th
        hour) but they work.

        Anyway, that is what I base my statement on, simply what I see around me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Burton
    Well, after reading this thread a few things come to my mind.

    Firstly, another thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/43057-would-you-work-all-year-make-100-000-day.html

    Secondly, This will not be best for everyone, no one plan ever is. But I believe in making a little per day, as a sideline income, in addition to my work toward the big paydays.

    If I make $20 a day on average from one project that takes me 20-80 minutes a day, averaging about 50 minutes, then that averages to about $24 an hour for that project, or about $7,300 per year from that project.

    If I have a second project that makes about $220 a week on average, taking about 2-3 hours per week, that is as much as $73 to $110 an hour for that project, or about $11,440 per year from that project.

    With 4 such projects, I can maintain a reasonably steady income of about $40,000 to $50,000 a year, which is 'keeping the lights on' money, and leaves me several days a week worth of time to work on the big paydays, where the real money resides.

    Some people will work best strictly on the 'big paydays', but I'm not comfortable putting all my eggs in one basket, to use an old cliche. If I am operating only on the big paydays, and looking to get $50 or $100 thousand from the one payday, and it fails for any reason, I'm likely to be hurting financially.

    Other people will be better served by the 'achieve and maintain' approach where they see income daily or weekly, and can continue to adjust their efforts to maintain or grow that amount.

    This is why my efforts are split as they are. It's what works best for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by Scott Burton View Post

      Well, after reading this thread a few things come to my mind.

      Firstly, another thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/43057-would-you-work-all-year-make-100-000-day.html
      LOL Yes, this thread reminded me of that book I had read so long ago, but I didn't want to hijack this thread - so I started a different one.

      Here is the starange part - when I read Robert Allen's approach, it made sense to me because he showed the work put into the launch.

      In the OP of this thread, the big payday is mentioned, but not the work leading up to it. I suppose that is why I posted what I did in response to the OP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Travis Wade
    This is a great post Ken. Here is my two cents.

    I have a background in traditional "offline" businesses so my mindset may be a little different.

    When asked how to make money online I have often told people to sign up for as many of the guru's lists as possible, dissect what they do, and replicate! However, I had a slightly different kind of plan when I got into IM.

    I knew about product launches and I thought about the big paydays but I didn't like the gaps of no income in between product launches.

    So, I decided to make a comfortable "base" amount to live off of. I wanted to see a steady income stream where I made around the same amount every day/week to give myself a feeling of security. I did this with affiliate marketing and building ecommerce stores and membership sites.

    After reaching my goal of having a steady income stream then I would start doing product launches (which is what I'm working on now).

    Why did I plan it this way?

    I needed to have the peace of mind of knowing I will get paid no matter what. I was comfortable with money from a job. I knew when the paycheck was coming. So with an online business, I wanted to see the same thing.

    People may argue that I could make the same amount of money per year with a really big product launch. While that is true, I would not have that feeling of security I'm used to. So, maybe the $275 per day approach gives people a more secure feeling along with sounding more attainable.

    I incorporated it into my goals along with product launches. You see, now whatever income I bring in from a product launch is just a bonus and I will still have that security long after the launch is over.

    -Travis
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  • Profile picture of the author jlandells
    Hi All!

    I'm fairly new in the forums (in terms of activity, anyway!) so still finding my feet. What I don't understand about this thread is that the OP simply offered us a different perspective of how we could potentially look at our Internet businesses. For some reason, it seems to have degenerated into a personal attack on the poster!?

    Have I missed something here?

    Surely, if we don't like something, we don't read it. If we don't like a particular member, don't read their posts. I think I even read somewhere that we can block certain members so that they don't bother us.

    Am I being naive here???

    -John.

    P.S. Please don't have a go at me too - I'm only asking....!
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  • Profile picture of the author tomw
    Based on your above "resume" your experience is wholly in the Real Estate Investor niche, which is pretty damn easy to make good money in. If you are to hold your previous experiences as proof of your expertise then, in my mind, those detailed only qualify you to sell real estate investor programs.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Further, we can clearly see that you've attached a lot of self-help mumbo jumbo and downright bunkum to your pitches ie, "Soulionaire" being a front for Coaching Cash. But this kind of approach doesn't work with real business people. Only the naive and the very desperate. Hence the mild distain many more senior Warriors have for your views.

    Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
      Originally Posted by tomw View Post

      Based on your above "resume" your experience is wholly in the Real Estate Investor niche, which is pretty damn easy to make good money in. If you are to hold your previous experiences as proof of your expertise then, in my mind, those detailed only qualify you to sell real estate investor programs.

      You can't have it both ways.

      Further, we can clearly see that you've attached a lot of self-help mumbo jumbo and downright bunkum to your pitches ie, "Soulionaire" being a front for Coaching Cash. But this kind of approach doesn't work with real business people. Only the naive and the very desperate. Hence the mild distain many more senior Warriors have for your views.

      Thomas
      Fair enough. You are free to have your opinions. I've coached many people in niches that go far beyond real estate.

      I also find it laughable you are speaking incorrectly about how my business is set up.

      But then again senior Warriors know everything about everything, don't they Thomas?

      Ken
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      • Profile picture of the author tomw
        Fair enough. You are free to have your opinions. I've coached many people in niches that go far beyond real estate.
        But you didn't list them in your resume, hence the understandable first half of my post.

        I also find it laughable you are speaking incorrectly about how my business is set up.
        Actually, I'm speaking based upon going through your membership site, your "coaching" materials, your "funnel" and through further investigation...

        But then again senior Warriors know everything about everything, don't they Thomas?
        Fair enough, I should have said more senior or more serious business people.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
          Originally Posted by tomw View Post

          Actually, I'm the one laughing and I'm speaking based upon going through your membership site, your "coaching" materials, your "funnel" and through further investigation...
          No apologies here. I'm teaching a group of great folks how to build a five figure monthly business for themselves based on a proven model I've used that works - unlike 99% of the junk that people sell. I'm damn proud of not only what I offer but how I offer it.

          Fair enough, I should have said more senior or more serious business people.
          That's an interesting statement. So because I run my business differently than you I'm not a "serious business person"?

          Ken
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          • Profile picture of the author tomw
            Firstly, I edited out the petulant "I'm the one laughing," statement as I didn't want this to become petty. I'm sorry I wasn't fast enough on the edit button.

            That's an interesting statement. So because I run my business differently than you I'm not a "serious business person"?
            If you follow back the line of the conversation I thought we where having, you will see that I simply stated a reason why some distain was flying your way from [originally "senior Warriors"] more serious business people. I made this clarification as I agreed with the subtext of your response.

            I don't run a MMO membership site, no.

            I own numerous businesses, but I don't "run" any of them, in fact I only ever turn up when there's trouble, or in the case of the creative businesses, if there's a project or a client that I am particularly interested in working with directly. This is why I can find plenty of time to hang out here...

            Thomas
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            • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
              Originally Posted by tomw View Post

              Firstly, I edited out the petulant "I'm the one laughing," statement as I didn't want this to become petty. I'm sorry I wasn't fast enough on the edit button.
              No worries. I do appreciate the sentiment though for one reason: I greatly value the input I've received from you on this forum. That ain't B.S. either.

              If you follow back the line of the conversation I thought we where having, you will see that I simply stated a reason why some distain was flying your way from [originally "senior Warriors"] more serious business people. I made this clarification as I agreed with the subtext of your response.

              I don't run a MMO membership site, no.

              I own numerous businesses, but I don't "run" any of them, in fact I only ever turn up when there's trouble, or in the case of the creative businesses, if there's a project or a client that I am particularly interested in working with directly. This is why I can find plenty of time to hang out here...

              Thomas
              Understood. I respect that you have set up your business that way. I've set mine up my way.

              My point is neither of us have any place in attacking or criticizing the other's way of doing business. We don't know each others' motivations or intentions nor the full make up of one another's business models.

              I guess to sum up the way this thread has developed here's what I would say.

              For some reason or another my path online has allowed some big things to happen for me (definitely some negative things - I'm honest about this as it hasn't always been a walk in the park).

              But the amount of revenue I've generated and the stuff that has worked for me is stuff that most people believe is simply not possible.

              This presents a major challenge. Why?

              Well number one I get challenged all the time (e.g. Roger's post on this thread) and I do understand why - little of what I say sounds possible. I accept that. I have to. My experience is my experience and that's all I can speak to.

              But the bigger reason it's a challenge is because I'm passionate about people not settling. I'm passionate about helping people go BIG even when they don't think they can. This is why I focus so much on mindset.

              Thomas I accept that your opinion of my mindset stuff as "self-help mumbo jumbo". But my experience is the only thing in between people and what they want is whatever they are telling themselves in their heads.

              The stuff I share about mindset is stuff I've been thinking about, writing about and articulating for a couple years now. It may not speak to you but it speaks to a lot of people.

              On top of that foundation I give practical, step-by-step training to my customers on exactly how to do whatever it is I'm teaching them to do.

              Look, I'm an imperfect human being. We all are. I haven't learned how to articulate any of this "perfectly". I never will.

              The difference is I'm willing to put myself out there. Most people are not. With that comes scrutiny. So be it.

              I'm playing a massive game to help a lot of people. And I'm not waiting to play it. So I'll take the scrutiny that comes with it. I'll keep sharing - but I'll also keep learning as well. And hopefully still from you.

              Ken
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
              Banned
              Originally Posted by tomw View Post


              I own numerous businesses, but I don't "run" any of them, in fact I only ever turn up when there's trouble, or in the case of the creative businesses, if there's a project or a client that I am particularly interested in working with directly. This is why I can find plenty of time to hang out here...

              Thomas
              That is exactly where I am heading this year.

              This entrepreneur is not meant to run the businesses he creates. I will make more money by letting others run it while I create more.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                I guess there are two issues here. I'm not sure to be honest with the
                members reading this thread.

                The one issue is mindset. I hope we can all agree that if you limit yourself
                to thinking that just because you've just started that you can only make
                $X per month, then that's all you're going to make. It's what's really killed
                me from getting further than I have. In the grand scheme of things, comparing
                myself to other marketers in business for over 6 years, I am a horrible failure.
                Took me a long time to realize this, with whatever my success is.

                And the reason for that is mindset, plain and simple. I believed you had to
                work hard and you had to do it in bits and pieces and that it had to take
                forever.

                It was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life.

                It doesn't have to be a long struggle. With a clear cut business plan,
                right from the start, and some big goals, it can be done. Yes, it will take
                a bit of work and probably a bit of money too, but it is possible. That's the
                point that I think Ken is trying to make.

                It doesn't have to be sweat and blood like it's been for me.

                The second issue is the business model itself. As Ken said, the big launch
                isn't the only way to go, though it is apparent from the sheer number that
                they can be very successful. But it isn't the only way to massive success.

                Take a look at Aweber. Do you think they make a nice monthly income?

                No big launches there. That's one service that, as long as they continue
                to provide a good one, will be making money for a long time. I don't even
                want to guess how many members Aweber has.

                And they are just one example.

                Point is, there are many ways to generate a substantial income online. It
                doesn't have to be one way or the other. This has nothing to do with
                whether you approve or disapprove of the approach. Personally, I'm not
                a big fan of the big launch. But you can't deny that they work.

                I think all Ken was trying to get across in his original post was to think
                big and not limit yourself.

                Regardless of what success he has or hasn't had, that overall message, if
                I am in fact reading it correctly, is hard to argue with.

                At least that's the way I see it.
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                • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  I guess there are two issues here. I'm not sure to be honest with the
                  members reading this thread.

                  The one issue is mindset. I hope we can all agree that if you limit yourself
                  to thinking that just because you've just started that you can only make
                  per month, then that's all you're going to make. It's what's really killed
                  me from getting further than I have. In the grand scheme of things, comparing
                  myself to other marketers in business for over 6 years, I am a horrible failure.
                  Took me a long time to realize this, with whatever my success is.

                  And the reason for that is mindset, plain and simple. I believed you had to
                  work hard and you had to do it in bits and pieces and that it had to take
                  forever.

                  It was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life.

                  It doesn't have to be a long struggle. With a clear cut business plan,
                  right from the start, and some big goals, it can be done. Yes, it will take
                  a bit of work and probably a bit of money too, but it is possible. That's the
                  point that I think Ken is trying to make.

                  It doesn't have to be sweat and blood like it's been for me.

                  The second issue is the business model itself. As Ken said, the big launch
                  isn't the only way to go, though it is apparent from the sheer number that
                  they can be very successful. But it isn't the only way to massive success.

                  Take a look at Aweber. Do you think they make a nice monthly income?

                  No big launches there. That's one service that, as long as they continue
                  to provide a good one, will be making money for a long time. I don't even
                  want to guess how many members Aweber has.

                  And they are just one example.

                  Point is, there are many ways to generate a substantial income online. It
                  doesn't have to be one way or the other. This has nothing to do with
                  whether you approve or disapprove of the approach. Personally, I'm not
                  a big fan of the big launch. But you can't deny that they work.

                  I think all Ken was trying to get across in his original post was to think
                  big and not limit yourself.

                  Regardless of what success he has or hasn't had, that overall message, if
                  I am in fact reading it correctly, is hard to argue with.

                  At least that's the way I see it.
                  Steven,

                  Thank you for articulating my point better than I can do myself.

                  I'm serious about that too. I always know what I want to say but I'm often not the best person to say it. Strange as that sounds.

                  You mentioned service type models like Aweber. Absolutely! If I had the knowledge, skill set or genius for that kind of model THAT'S the kind of thing I'd be building.

                  Overall I'm about one thing for people:

                  Whatever you choose to build, don't settle for building it small if you want to go big. There are too many successful models out there in every arena showing you "what to do" to justify you settling for less than what you are worth.

                  While that may seem like "self-help mumbo jumbo" to me it's completely practical. It eliminates 90% of the guesswork about what business or business approach will be successful in a given market.

                  In my experience the other 10% is having the proper mindset to fill in the blanks.

                  Or maybe it's the other way around.

                  Ken
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              • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
                Originally Posted by tomw View Post

                Based upon my friend Roger's reputation around here for being a bit of a player, I shudder to think what he had out for you...

                Thomas
                I think it was Rodney King who uttered those immortal words "Can't we all just get a long?"

                I'm gald this thread got back to the civility Warriors are known to possess.

                For a moment there it was hard to tell where this thread was going.

                KJ
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by tomw View Post


      "Soulionaire" being a front for Coaching Cash.
      My thoughts too.
      Seems to be the "in" thing lately.
      There must be 5 coaches for every marketer now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    I do it both ways. When I first started, I could only make a little money here and there. I was looking for the big payday. After a while, I decided to focus on achieving a daily number that would add up to my goal. Of course you rarely get the same revenue every single day, so I worked on trying to get an "average" daily income.

    That gave me a goal I could wrap my arms around and reach. These days, my internet-related income provides me and my family of four a very, very nice living. But it took me quite a while to get from where I started to where I am now, six figures per year.

    Now I maintain a steady stream and mix in some big paydays.

    I teach beginners to focus on a simple, easier to achieve goal. It allows them to build up their online business without losing faith that they might by focusing only on the big number.

    It's like when I joined a bowling league when I was in my 20's. I was teamed with a guy like me who averaged about 140 or so and another guy who averaged over 200 a game (he actually bowled a 300 one night during our league). Anyhow, to make a long story short, I couldn't consistently get the ball where I wanted it to go. The big bowler on our team took about 30 seconds and analyzed my problem and solved it. He asked me:

    "Are you looking at the marks on the floor of the lane or at the pins?"

    Of course, I was looking at the pins. He made me instead focus on the little arrows that were right in front of me instead of the pins that were so far away. My average improved immediately -- it was all a matter of where I was focusing.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author BubbasBits
    Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees and it takes a simple thing like changing your mindset to put things in perspective. It truly is just as easy to make big money as it is little money and usually takes no more work. So whatever it takes to put yourself in that mindset; Go for it!
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  • Profile picture of the author tomw
    Sorry for the cheap "self-help mumbo jumbo" jibe. I see you're making good use of it. Any more credits and I'll be able to rejoin the Writer's Guild

    I have a lot of faith in self-help, but I think that it is misused and miss-sold. It's misused, increasingly so in the MMO niche, as yet another magic button. Think yourself rich as well as buy my millionaire maker system priced $97. Ask the universe for a million dollars and along with purchasing my $7 WSO, you shall receive. Etc...ad infinitum.

    It doesn't work this way.

    For people to believe in themselves and their capabilities, they often need a paradigm shift. This generally can only come from a conscious choice to change or through positive results, no matter how small. Little victories that compound and propel people in their business activities or any other pursuit of any other goal, by building emotional momentum.

    Tony Robbins and the like ain't gonna save anybody. Many commentators say that these guys open the door and that their *customers* simply have to walk through it.

    This is not the case.

    These guys simply point out that such a door exists. It's up to the individual to summon sufficient motivation from within themselves to open it and make a conscious choice to expend the required energy to step through it.

    A trite but appropriate example would be; why do you think there are so many smokers on programs, with a mentor, a councillor and a support group who want to but can't quit their addiction, whereas others simply say "enough's enough, today I'm gonna quit" and do so?

    Nobody can motivate anybody else. A paradigm shift based upon a conscious decision to change really can only come from within. No amount of mentoring, coaching, leading, badgering or bullying will make a blind bit of difference.

    The irony is that those who feel they need (and often really do need) to change, rarely do and often become self-help program junkies!

    You're right about our mutual passion for helping people. However we do it in different ways here. I don't really believe in selling in an educational environment and so I do not sell anything here. Nor do I have anything ready to sell that I think would be of real benefit. This may change, however, as more and more I see a need for certain types of crucial business and growth fundamentals as well as advanced strategies simply not even being discussed here. I'm also more and more motivated to do this in line with the next sentence...

    As I have written many times, by the end of this year all of my existing and planned business activities will fund the launch of my human trafficking charity in Eastern Europe. All operating profit. Everything I have will go into this. It's something close to my heart and an all too overlooked global problem. I just want to do my bit.

    You're right about one thing though, if you want something to be big, plan it so from the outset. This is why it will have taken me almost two years by launch day.

    Thanks for the kind words. That's why most of us are here. Simply to learn from one another, without the presumption of being teachers.

    Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by tomw View Post


      Nobody can motivate anybody else.
      Unless they want to be motivated.

      This may be one of the truest things I've heard in a long time. My mother
      in law, who has already had a heart attack and almost died, can't stop
      smoking even though her own daughter tried to get her to stop and as a
      result was point blank told to butt out.

      There is only one person who can you do anything and that's you.

      This is why I personally have no use for these Secret type programs,
      courses or whatever.

      The only person I need to motivate me to be successful is me.

      Thanks Tom. Good point.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by tomw View Post

      The irony is that those who feel they need (and often really do need) to change, rarely do and often become self-help program junkies!
      This may have to do with the same reason people keep buying the next latest, greatest course in 'IM', and that may be, because of the "magic pill" personality.

      I notice even in threads, everyone wants to know the 'ONE' thing that makes the most difference. While there might be one thing missing, it will be different for each person. There's no one size fits all, magic pill, to make the problems go away !

      Originally Posted by tomw View Post

      As I have written many times, by the end of this year all of my existing and planned business activities will fund the launch of my human trafficking charity in Eastern Europe. All operating profit. Everything I have will go into this. It's something close to my heart and an all too overlooked global problem. I just want to do my bit.
      This is a great move and sometimes helping others in a bigger way and thinking big can give one the motivation to accomplish anything.

      Some people believe the more you give the more you can rec. And one way I implement this is to always give out more information as the more you give, the more you can rec.
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Ken/Steven,

        Thankyou for your detailed and considered responses. Yes it was a challenge to you both, but I see from Ken's reply that he understand the reasons -

        Well number one I get challenged all the time (e.g. Roger's post on this thread) and I do understand why - little of what I say sounds possible. I accept that. I have to.
        I hope that after the many other responses, some educational value has been gained, which was my main intention.

        I particularly liked Sevenish's post -

        I think some of the issues here may have to do with the imperious verbiage, such as:

        "In order to be successful, you must do X"
        "This is how it's done. There are no exceptions"
        "I tell all of my thousands of wildly successful students who are now fabulously rich (hint: you could be successful too if you just become my student. click here for details) do Y"

        Sorry, but that's rubbish for anyone but you. Don't mistake your shortcomings as universal issues.

        Yes, mindset is most important.

        It's only when I see someone trying to convince novices that all that they need is some reprogramming to become wildly rich, whilst offering a coaching program in order to do just that, that the red flags go up ... and they go quite high.
        Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author tonyd13
    Great post Ken. I have seen other posts of yours and you always seem to give quality advice. Keep up the good work!
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  • Profile picture of the author MouseandMice
    I think that the mindset goes farther than just creating big paydays...

    It has to do with WHY you want to create that wealth... Is it for YOURSELF? Is it for OTHERS? Is it for BOTH?

    Then you go further down that rabbit-hole:

    WHY are you making that website? Why are you going into that niche? Is it just because you think it will make you lots of money?

    If you aren't interested in it, you wont follow through with it 99 times out of 100...

    Just a bit of stuff I have seen in doing IM... its the people who have that goal, not just for themselves, but for their family, their friends, and others in the world that seem to thrive... it is the people that follow their passions, and not just what they think will make them rich, that seem to thrive



    Never let anyone tell you that you cannot accomplish something. Never let anyone tell you that the only way to accomplish it is by following somebody elses passion.

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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    I think Scott Burton has the right idea.

    Do both.

    The bigger the thinking, the greater the risk (or, the smaller the likelihood of success). Like buying a lottery ticket.

    The reverse is often true too. The lower the goal, the more likely (or the easier) the success.

    Therefore, create some 'bread and butter' low-level systems to make a living -- while SIMULTANEOUSLY hunting the big whales.

    That way you have the security of day-to-day living covered, and you're consistently buying lottery tickets ALSO!

    -- TW
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  • Profile picture of the author sevenish
    I think some of the issues here may have to do with the imperious verbiage, such as:

    "In order to be successful, you must do X"
    "This is how it's done. There are no exceptions"
    "I tell all of my thousands of wildly successful students who are now fabulously rich (hint: you could be successful too if you just become my student. click here for details) do Y"

    Sorry, but that's rubbish for anyone but you. Don't mistake your shortcomings as universal issues.

    Yes, mindset is most important.

    It's only when I see someone trying to convince novices that all that they need is some reprogramming to become wildly rich, whilst offering a coaching program in order to do just that, that the red flags go up ... and they go quite high.
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    100% atrocity-free! No annihilations, assasinations, explosions, killers, crushers, massacres, bombs, skyrockets or nukes.

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  • Profile picture of the author Nato Guajardo
    I really enjoyed this post. Lately I've been reading all of Ken's posts mainly because he was successful in a niche that I just started marketing to.

    I did some research on Ken prior to this post and there is no doubt that he made money in the real estate niche. Lot of life changing information in his posts. I just hope he doesn't stop making posts like this.

    BTW Ken are you accepting free students?
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