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Adding WSO buyers to your list?

by Ivelin2008
49 replies
I see some WSO sellers force people to opt-in to their buyers list in order to send them their download.

I wondered isn't there a better way to do this..
I thought you could just intergrate WSO Pro with aweber and add them automatically without them having to opt-in.

Isn't that the case?
I would appreciate it if you share your experience..
How do you add buyers to your list?
And what do you think is the best way to do that?

Thanks
#adding #buyers #list #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Elion Makkink
    Lots of warriors are already doing that (including myself with Imnica Mail), those that require an opt-in don't use WarriorPlus+ I guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    Using WSO Pro they still have to confirm the subscription.. which is a good thing for both you and them.

    I use WSO Pro, and WP estore for products sold outside WF, which handles opt-ins the same way.

    I also add an opt-in form on every download page asking them to sign up for free updates, so they have 2 opportunities to join.

    Being forced to join a mailing list to get access a product you've already paid for is unethical in my book.. and I'm probably in the minority here, but it would be the last time I did business with a seller using that method.
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    • Profile picture of the author Elion Makkink
      Originally Posted by Mick Meaney View Post

      Using WSO Pro they still have to confirm the subscription.. which is a good thing for both you and them.

      I use WSO Pro, and WP estore for products sold outside WF, which handles opt-ins the same way.

      I also add an opt-in form on every download page asking them to sign up for free updates, so they have 2 opportunities to join.

      Being forced to join a mailing list to get a product you've already paid for is unethical in my book.. and I'm probably in the minority here, but it would be the last time I did business with a seller using that method.
      They don't have to confirm, if they buy, they will be added to your list automatically.
      And sending them emails after they've purchased from you is in line with the CANSPAM policies
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  • Profile picture of the author RAMarketing
    I agree, why should I have to join your list? I already gave you money; if you want me to join your list give me something in return. A list of irritated buyers won't take you far.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    As long as it's not necessary to subscribe in order to get the product, it's no big deal to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      I don't even mind if it IS necessary to subscribe and/or confirm, as long as you tell me that before I pay and don't spring it on me as an additional condition after I've paid.

      Anyone using PayPal might also like to be aware that they've been known to close people's accounts over one (verified) complaint about that. Understandably, I think, because it is, after all, an attempt to vary the terms of the contract of sale after payment. And who wants to do business with people who do that? :rolleyes:

      If you do require an opt-in (with or without email confirmation of the opt-in) as a condition of product delivery, then there's simply no alternative to saying so clearly before people pay.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Morris
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I don't even mind if it IS necessary to subscribe and/or confirm, as long as you tell me that before I pay and don't spring it on me as an additional condition after I've paid.

        Anyone using PayPal might also like to be aware that they've been known to close people's accounts over one (verified) complaint about that. Understandably, I think, because it is, after all, an attempt to vary the terms of the contract of sale after payment. And who wants to do business with people who do that? :rolleyes:

        If you do require an opt-in (with or without email confirmation of the opt-in) as a condition of product delivery, then there's simply no alternative to saying so clearly before people pay.
        I think many sellers refrain from the above mentioned because of the fear of losing sales..I mean..telling buyers they have to opt in beforehand is definitely going to dissuade customers as against not declaring. Just my 2 cents..
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by David Morris View Post

          I think many sellers refrain from the above mentioned because of the fear of losing sales..I mean..telling buyers they have to opt in beforehand is definitely going to dissuade customers as against not declaring. Just my 2 cents..
          Yes, I do see what you mean, David.

          The problem is that if you don't declare it, and spring it on them, you can lose your PayPal account. As previously discussed here, in many threads. (If you use PayPal, that is. If you have a merchant account and can just take credit-card payments off your own page, or have other arrangements, that's obviously a different matter). I admit I'd be infuriated with a vendor who tried to do that, though. I'm not saying I'd ask for a refund or complain to PayPal (though some people do) but I probably wouldn't want to buy anything else from that person ever again.

          Much better (I think) either to do it in an automated way, or to give people the option of opting in "for product updates" or "for a free bonus" together with a "no thanks, just proceed to download" option also available.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ivelin2008
        I tend to agree with Alexa,
        I don't mind opting-in after I buy as long as it says on the sales page that I will have to do it, but unfortunately almost no one does..

        and it's annoying to be forced to opt-in after you paid for your product and just want to get it. I don't think it's good relationship building.

        That's why I was asking if you could automatically add buyers to your list. So if I integrate Warrior plus with Aweber will people have to confirm their address or not? Having to confirm would defeat the whole point I think..

        If I can't do that I think the second best strategy is to do it like this:

        on your thank you page say:

        Step 1 (optional): Enter your email below to receive your free bonuses, lifetime updates, special customer discounts and FREE content.

        Step 2: download your product. (with download link)

        ..or something like that. That way I am not forcing anybody but am still giving them an incentive to want to opt-in and the step 1, step 2 thing will also help. What do you think?
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by Ivelin2008 View Post


          That's why I was asking if you could automatically add buyers to your list. So if I integrate Warrior plus with Aweber will people have to confirm their address or not? Having to confirm would defeat the whole point I think..
          i didn't see this ever answered by anyone who is using wsopro.

          i know with aweber if the users is subscribed via sending an email to the list name (mylistname@aweber.com) then they MUST confirm.

          but if they are subscribed via web form you can turn off the double optin setting.

          since wsopro does seem to ask for the aweber list id # is it somehow adding the users via a backend script mimicking a web form? thus eliminating the need for the confirmation email?
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          • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
            Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

            since wsopro does seem to ask for the aweber list id # is it somehow adding the users via a backend script mimicking a web form? thus eliminating the need for the confirmation email?
            I was told by one of the speakers at the Practical Profits event that this was against awebers TOS but people use it anyways.

            I also spoke to aweber and they said that you must use confirmed optin if you are not using the webform.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    We were just talking about this on another thread.

    I recommend offering them a special bonus with confirmed optin on the download page. Make sure the bonus is something that they wont want to miss out on and you can also mention that they will get updates as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author billspaced
      Originally Posted by Dr Dan View Post

      We were just talking about this on another thread.

      I recommend offering them a special bonus with confirmed optin on the download page. Make sure the bonus is something that they wont want to miss out on and you can also mention that they will get updates as well.
      That's a fantastic idea, Dr Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Kate C
    It may be a good idea to offer them a bonus with the WSO and have them opt in for this. This way, only those that want the bonus will opt in. Those who just want the download they purchased do not have to do anything further. It would make people feel as if they had a choice.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    I use the Integration option with Imnica...

    However, one problem with that is some folks may not use their PayPal email address often or it might be flooded with payment notifications...

    Also, I believe in transparency so I like to tell people what just happened and give them the chance to use a better email if they wish but still have quick access to their purchase...

    Here is a picture...

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    • Profile picture of the author Jonas B
      Originally Posted by Coby View Post

      I use the Integration option with Imnica...

      However, one problem with that is some folks may not use their PayPal email address often or it might be flooded with payment notifications...

      Also, I believe in transparency so I like to tell people what just happened and give them the chance to use a better email if they wish but still have quick access to their purchase...

      Here is a picture...
      Thats actually a pretty good idea.. I'm doing almost the same except i'm not allowing people to change their email.. Do you notice that much people give an alternative email adress? Or do the most people just ignore it?
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  • Profile picture of the author fitz10
    With Warrior+ you can add people to your mailing list automatically but it's not double opt-in which most people prefer. I offer bonuses for opting-in and tell people in my sales copy they will receive the bonus if they confirm their email.

    If you use Paypal I do NOT recommend forced opt-in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
    This is my take on the situation and I have seen a lot of marketers making us optin to their lists so we can get access to our products.

    I find it unethical that anyone would force someone who has just bought from you to be added to an email list that they were never asked if they wanted to. If you send that buyer any email in the future then you are spamming them. They never requested information from you!

    As also said it is against PayPal and Aweber TOS to force people onto your list after purchase and not allowing them to download their product until they do. Someone WILL report you and you have have either or both of those accounts banned losing your lists and your money.

    If you are using Warrior Plus to deliver your product this in my opinion is how you should do it:

    When the buyer returns to Warrior Plus after purchasing, they click the Click Here To Access Your Purchase button. The product should either be delivered directly in a zip file or a pdf file and if you are adding your list to WSO Pro make it double-optin. Or send the buyer to a download page where they can download the product, again using double optin to get them on your list.

    If you are not using WSO Pro then the buyer should be taken to the download page directly after payment to download their product. If you want to have them on your list ask them if they want to receive lifetime updates or a special bonus to optin. If you are going to be using an OTO, you MUST have a "No thanks". link where the buyer can skip this step to get to the download page. (I have bought a product and been taken to an OTO where there was no "No thanks" link and didn't receive any product via email. I had a go at the seller and requested the seller send me the link via email or PM. He was essentially making buyers purchase twice to get to their original purchase).

    It is NEVER right or neccesary to add a buyer onto your list without their consent. You are essentially scamming them.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

      It is NEVER right or neccesary to add a buyer onto your list without their consent. You are essentially scamming them.
      No it is not. It depends what the list is for. If you are going to market to those people then yes, you should be getting their permission. If, however, all you are going to use that list for is to send product updates related to the purchase then I don't see the problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        No it is not. It depends what the list is for. If you are going to market to those people then yes, you should be getting their permission. If, however, all you are going to use that list for is to send product updates related to the purchase then I don't see the problem.
        Unless you have pre-warned them they will be automatically added to your list so you can send them updates, then yeah sure, but adding them without their knowledge is no good. Who's to say you won't start sending buyers promotions that they don't want?

        I could offer something to someone and say they need to give me their phone number so that when there is an update I will call them to let them know. Who's to say I don't get suddenly tempted to call everyone just to promote something else? I've broken any trust they may have had with me.

        If you want people to be added to your list, either pre-warn them or give them the option to get their product without it. PayPal and Aweber have these TOS for a reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
      Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

      .If you send that buyer any email in the future then you are spamming them.

      It is NEVER right or neccesary to add a buyer onto your list without their consent. You are essentially scamming them.
      It's not spam.

      I'm not saying that you should do it, but it isn't spam. You are allowed to send emails to people with whom you have a pre existing business relationship. This includes people who have bought things from you.

      I think you should get permission to send them things, as a business practice, but it's neither illegal or unethical, in itself, to send emails to people who've purchased from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author blillard
    This is a good to know topic. So many time have I paid for a wso and had force opt-in to a list. Bad business bad business lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
    I HATE when someone ask me to opt-in to their list to get access to the product when I've already PAID for it! I will also not like to get ANY update or any email from that seller UNTIL I've actually subscribed to his list.


    - Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Sherry Driedger
    I don't like being forced onto an email list to get access to what I have purchased either and from a customer perspective, it had better be an astounding product or have a compelling reason to remain on that list, or I will be opting out as quickly as is possible. I get far too many promotional emails as it is. I wonder just what the opt out average is when using a forced opt-in?
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Ning Lo
    As long as you tell me that i will need to subscribe after purchase, that's fine to me

    Cheers,

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  • Profile picture of the author Lucas Adamski
    The easiest way is to set up a membership site where people can access your course. Integrate sign up with your aweber and you can use single opt in in aweber and you will capture all your customers
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
      Originally Posted by Lucas Adamski View Post

      The easiest way is to set up a membership site where people can access your course. Integrate sign up with your aweber and you can use single opt in in aweber and you will capture all your customers
      How is that any better? You're still forcing them onto your list without their knowledge.
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  • Profile picture of the author kuangzhuang
    I don't like being forced onto an email list to get the product.I hope that people can change this way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Enzo Reyn
    it`s not big deal iff you not like wath you recive from it unsubscribe...
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Mr. Mike Baker...

    Adding anyone that purchases a product to your mailing list for future contact is inline with CANSPAM regulations...

    Rather or not it is "scammy" is not really for you to decide...

    In fact I remember a similar thread recently where you were complaining that people were not confirming their emails after purchasing from you...

    Personally I use all integration features I can take advantage of to make it easier on both myself and my customers...

    However, I always tell them they were added but NEVER require them to return to their email to access their product - THAT IS against PayPal TOS (usually) - but always send them bonuses to their email - even though it's single opt-in...

    I'm happy - my customers are happy - maybe you should take note...

    Good Luck
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
    This is one way I look at it.

    If you go down to the supermarket and buy a carton of milk, does the cashier ask for your email address or phone number so they can contact you to try and sell you other products?
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    • Profile picture of the author Elion Makkink
      Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

      This is one way I look at it.

      If you go down to the supermarket and buy a carton of milk, does the cashier ask for your email address or phone number so they can contact you to try and sell you other products?
      Well, if you buy clothing in a store, they might actually ask you that yes. You'll receive a personal card with discount and points for future purchases. I like that because I want to keep updated when new clothing comes out or when they have massive discount weeks.

      The people who don't like to get emailed will unsubscribe with 1-single click anyway . I wouldn't bother that much if I were you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

      If you go down to the supermarket and buy a carton of milk, does the cashier ask for your email address or phone number so they can contact you to try and sell you other products?
      They do all the offline equivalents of that, Mike, yes.

      They have loyalty schemes, discount vouchers, all sorts of things. All three of the supermarket chains at which I've done shopping over the last few years, one of which is the world's third-largest retailer, are desperate to get their customers' email addresses any way they can. They also try to get phone numbers, and they employ thousands of people to call with offers in insurance/financial services, and all sorts of things like this (unless/until you ask them not to, obviously).

      It's called "marketing".

      Since you ask.

      It's entirely legitimate to send email to your own customers. There's nothing wrong with putting them on a list and contacting them. It isn't illegal. It isn''t unethical. It isn't contrary to "Can-Spam". It isn't a problem. You can do it in automated way.

      And however much you refer to PayPal's and Aweber's "TOS", you have that wrong, in one significant detail.

      The potential for a problem arises only when you don't do it in an automated way and end up - instead - asking people to opt in. And even then, the problem itself arises only for the marketers who are genuinely stupid enough to make product-delivery conditional on an opt-in without having disclosed that fact before their customers pay. :rolleyes:

      That, undeniably, IS a problem, and it's a big one and a real one and marketers are losing their PayPal accounts over it, and for understandable reasons. But that's the only "problem scenario" here.

      Everything else in the conversation is just Mike Baker having a whine, I'm afraid.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        They do all the offline equivalents of that, Mike, yes.

        They have loyalty schemes, discount vouchers, all sorts of things. All three of the supermarket chains at which I've done shopping over the last few years, one of which is the third-largest retailer, are desperate to get their customers' email addresses any way they can. They also try to get phone numbers, and they employ thousands of people to call with offers in insurance/financial services, and all sorts of things like this (unless/until you ask them not to, obviously).

        It's called "marketing".

        Since you ask.

        It's entirely legitimate to send email to your own customers. There's nothing wrong with putting them on a list and contacting them. It isn't illegal. It isn''t unethical. It isn't contrary to "Can-Spam". It isn't a problem. You can do it in automated way.

        And however much you refer to PayPal's and Aweber's "TOS", you have that wrong, in one significant detail.

        The potential for a problem arises only when you don't do it in an automated way and end up - instead - asking people to opt in. And even then, the problem itself arises only for the marketers who are genuinely stupid enough to make product-delivery conditional on an opt-in without having disclosed that fact before their customers pay. :rolleyes:

        That, undeniably, IS a problem, and it's a big one and a real one and marketers are losing their PayPal accounts over it, and for understandable reasons. But that's the only "problem scenario" here.

        Everything else in the conversation is just Mike Baker having a whine, I'm afraid.
        Thanks for the information. I makes a lot more sense now that you put it that way.

        Please don't call me a whiner. It may take me longer than other people to learn marketer things, and that is why I question things, but I am not a whiner.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

          Thanks for the information. I makes a lot more sense now that you put it that way.
          Thanks, Mike.

          Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

          Please don't call me a whiner. It may take me longer than other people to learn marketer things, and that is why I question things, but I am not a whiner.
          Sorry! I didn't mean it too literally - hence the smiley, you know? Still, I apologise for an unfortunate and careless choice of word - please excuse me.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jake Gray
          Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

          but I am not a whiner.
          Hey Mike,

          New Trend

          New WSO of the Day Changes?

          Pssh... Of course not...
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

      This is one way I look at it.

      If you go down to the supermarket and buy a carton of milk, does the cashier ask for your email address or phone number so they can contact you to try and sell you other products?
      Yes, all the time. In more ways than one. The local Office supply always asks for my phone number. I can give it or not. The Super market MAKES me "Opt In" for their "club" card, that is if I choose to buy my patato chips for 1.99 instead of the normal price of $4.99.

      Again, it's "If I Choose to do it." So I'm not coming down on either side of the WSO issue.

      I Just answered your question "Does the cashier ask for your email address or phone number so they can contact you to try and sell you other products?" Yes as a matter of fact they do. Based on my buying habits I get very targeted ads from them each week.

      George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

      This is one way I look at it.

      If you go down to the supermarket and buy a carton of milk, does the cashier ask for your email address or phone number so they can contact you to try and sell you other products?
      Actually they do...

      I shop at Kroger's and they have a customer saving program...

      Guess what is required to get the storewide "discounts"...

      You have to register...

      Not a very good analogy as this is a pretty common thing in retail these days...

      Try again...
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  • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
    Ok, let's talk about adding people AUTOMATICALLY to your email list when they purchase from you. This is quite simple and they are single opt-in, right? But it mean you will definitely contact them in case you've new products BUT as a buyer, did I ask you to contact me or tell me about your new products? Don't you feel it irritating when you receive an promotional email in your Inbox? Honestly, I don't even remember the name of the seller after buying the product and don't expect ANY email from them UNTIL they've update to the product I bought from them.


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  • Profile picture of the author chumpschimps
    3 WSOs I bought recently had forced opt-ins to receive the product - one of them I'd already unsubscribed from after receiving so many marketing emails and affiliate offers from another time I bought one of their products. I requested a download link, but haven't received it.

    Another one pm'd me and said he didn't like talking about such things on a WSO thread/open forum! Also said he'd send me a download link, which I haven't received either.

    One said the requirement to subscribe was to receive future software updates, which simply wasn't true because it was a PDF manual and I dd register for that one but have since received affiliate offers from him.

    Like has already been said, if you tell me in your sales letter that subscription is required, that's fine. But, to force it on me after you've got my money doesn't sit right. It even makes me wonder whether the quality of your product is up to par, or you're just carrying out a list-building exercise.
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    • Profile picture of the author fitz10
      Originally Posted by chumpschimps View Post

      It even makes me wonder whether the quality of your product is up to par, or you're just carrying out a list-building exercise.
      Hate to break it to you, but a lot of people are using the Warrior Forum as a list building exercise. Why do you think so many people are offering commissions of 75-100% on their products? The WSO forum is a major loss-leader for many sellers. They're hoping other people will mail the offer to their list so that they can get people on their own list. That doesn't mean the quality of the offer is bad. After all, why would you stay on someone's list and buy more products from them if the initial product you bought was total crap? If anything, sellers are going to try to make a great first impression.
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by fitz10 View Post

        Hate to break it to you, but a lot of people are using the Warrior Forum as a list building exercise.
        The problem is the lists being built are all the same buyers who are getting hammered everyday by other WSO sellers.
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        • Profile picture of the author chumpschimps
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          The problem is the lists being built are all the same buyers who are getting hammered everyday by other WSO sellers.
          It's true - I have an email address that I just use for this stuff and when you start getting 3 or 4 emails from affiliates, all saying the sane things, word for word, you can quickly weed out the lists you want to remain subscribed to - those who offer genuine, different content, or who stand out from the rest.
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        • Profile picture of the author fitz10
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          The problem is the lists being built are all the same buyers who are getting hammered everyday by other WSO sellers.
          Only if the list builder chooses to inundate their list with WSO offers. Not everyone does that. My point is that quality sellers will care about their list and nurture it, not burn it by overselling crappy WSOs.
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          • Profile picture of the author chumpschimps
            Originally Posted by fitz10 View Post

            Only if the list builder chooses to inundate their list with WSO offers. Not everyone does that. My point is that quality sellers will care about their list and nurture it, not burn it by overselling crappy WSOs.
            That's what separates the good from the bad.

            Now if someone could bottle that and put it in a WSO, they'd be onto a winner

            People hear that you've got to have a list to make money, all the time. So, that's what they do - they build a list.

            But, the problem is, a lot of them don't know what to do with that list once they've built it, so they just sling anything at it (ie as many affiliate offers as possible) in the hope that something sticks and they make a return.
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      • Profile picture of the author chumpschimps
        Originally Posted by fitz10 View Post

        Hate to break it to you, but a lot of people are using the Warrior Forum as a list building exercise. Why do you think so many people are offering commissions of 75-100% on their products? The WSO forum is a major loss-leader for many sellers. They're hoping other people will mail the offer to their list so that they can get people on their own list. That doesn't mean the quality of the offer is bad. After all, why would you stay on someone's list and buy more products from them if the initial product you bought was total crap? If anything, sellers are going to try to make a great first impression.
        I agree, and I understand/accept that.

        But, what's the point if building a list just to have big numbers of subscribers? Forced opt-ins might bring revenue for some guys, but for how long?

        One well-respected WSO provider on here has sent me 3 or 4 emails on mire than one day - all the same as I've received from other affiliates. They've then sent emails on the same day promoting their own products. I don't havecte or interest because they don't stand out from the rest.

        I just hit the unsubscribe button and I'm gone. If they'd worked the system different, I would probably have remained on the list and perhaps earned them commissions.

        I'm not saying the product I've bought from one person isn't good. That's why I've bought from them a second time. But, I don't agree with forced opt-in, especially when I've unsubscribed from their list because I don't like the constant bombardment. This particular product was something I wanted and had a keen interest in, but it's the last time they'll get my money.


        Just my experience and I know everyone's different.

        I think some people focus on quantity, not quality. They'd rather have a lost full of numbers because they've heard so many times, "the money's in the list". But, what they don't do is build a relationship with the list.
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        • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
          Originally Posted by chumpschimps View Post


          I think some people focus on quantity, not quality. They'd rather have a lost full of numbers because they've heard so many times, "the money's in the list". But, what they don't do is build a relationship with the list.
          I just sent an email to my list this morning about this very thing. Thanks for making that point. It is in relationships with the people on your list that can and does make the difference. Give them a reason to trust you and be worthy of that trust!

          -WD
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          "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

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  • Profile picture of the author murtuza
    You can use WSO pro to do that. While I have a subscription to ultimate marketing center which is an internet business automation system that can also do that, as soon as someone places the order it removes the lead from the normal autoreponder system and adds it to the customer list without that person manually subscribing to the buyers list.

    However another cool option that many do is tell the customers to subscribe and tell them that they will provide them regular updates for the product. Also you can give them some valuable surprise gift to optin. Below the optin form you can give them a link to directly go to the download page and tell them that they will miss upon the updates and the surprise gift if they donot subscribe above.

    This approach probably looks cool and does not force the customer to optin, but most of them will optin for the updates and gift....
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