I hate ClickBank (or, what am I doing wrong?)

SnowWhite

Banned 17 years ago

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ExRat 17 years ago

Hi freelief,

As a graphic designer, most of the "sales pitch" pages I've previewed make me want to vomit

I tend to jump in first, check the pool for water later

If you'd checked the pool, you'd have found that it has no water, but a plentiful supply of graphic designers lying on the bottom with broken legs.

Hopefully they will break your fall :rolleyes:

what am I doing wrong?

You're looking at the pages through the eyes of a graphic designer, which is the absolute opposite of the eyes of someone who has never done any graphic design, but is so desperate for a solution that when they read all about the acme horse racing system, they are so transfixed on the words that tell them what their life will be like once they part with $47, that they wouldn't even notice if the border image was nausea inducing psychedelic 1960s wallpaper.

You really aren't the first person to ask this here (understatement - the pool is full - but at least you didn't call all marketers idiots). :rolleyes:

That type of site has one focus - the sale - hence the wording is of utmost importance. Minimal professionally designed graphics can help with this goal, but any marketer worth their salt will split test their pages and often you will find that the reason that the site is pig-ugly, is because the pig-ugly version won and continues to win.

Hope this helps
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Roger Davis
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- freelief 17 years ago
  
  Oh good, I've managed to offend with my first posting.
  
  At least I've gotten that out of the way.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  ExRat 17 years ago
  
  Hi Freelief,
  
  Oh good, I've managed to offend with my first posting.
  
  At least I've gotten that out of the way.
  
  If you meant me - not offended at all!
  
  I'm a bit blunt (it works for me in this medium - kid gloves just lead to wasted pixels) and I like to season my posts with a little light humour disguised as dark sarcasm. It relieves the tedium
  
  But, no problem...if you do a search and find the other threads (keyword is probably 'vomit' ), you will see some examples where the OP (original poster) ranted and demonstrated their consumer mindset - based on the fact that they didn't like the look of the sites themselves, they summized that the site would also be disliked by 6 billion other people and that all marketers must be stupid.
  
  They dug the pool a lot deeper
  
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Dmitry

17 years ago

Originally Posted by SnowWhite

Most of the successful earners are from CB...

That couldn't have been farther from the truth... What data do you have to backup this? What successful earners? Don't help people limit their ideas of IM - your limitation is bad enough to have an extra one.

Thanks
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garyv

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Dmitry

That couldn't have been farther from the truth... What data do you have to backup this? What successful earners? Don't help people limit their ideas of IM - your limitation is bad enough to have an extra one.

Clickbank does nearly a million dollars in sales per day - yes day. There are definitely some successful imers with clickbank.

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freelief

17 years ago

For instance, I look up something dear to me: horses.

I skip through dozens of horse racing betting items to find two *realistic* options on horse training.

I look at the pitch pages and cringe. I would have to find a complete horse n00b to "sell" to ... I'd be embarrassed to recommend either to a friend.

There are a few eBooks I've been inclined to write, but if I have to use these types of marketing techniques to sell them, I'd rather not bother!

Thanks

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garyv

17 years ago

Originally Posted by freelief

As a graphic designer, most of the "sales pitch" pages I've previewed make me want to vomit.

Who has success with ClickBank?

Do you sell other people's eBooks or your own?

Anyone really turned off by the pitch pages as well?

Sorry for the total n00b posting ... I tend to jump in first, check the pool for water later.

You'll find that it's not always about looking good - the most important aspect is that you're providing something that people are looking for, and are willing to pay for. If you're in a crowded niche, then sometimes graphics will help you out. But it's mainly about the product and the pitch. - mho

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sunnyman

17 years ago

I can understand your point. However, it often turns out that a sales page that makes me cringe is actually selling a product *very* successfully.

The secret to a good sales page has something to do with talking to the visitor in a way they feel comfortable with. The graphics can support this conversation, but is NOT an end in itself.

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Erich

17 years ago

Quick question freelief have you ever purchased an ebook? If so why did you buy it? As a Graphics Designer I would like to get your opinion on this Clickbank website Fat Loss 4 Idiots / Weight Loss and Diet Center The reason I ask is who is your market and are you able to communicate with them?

Thanks
1 reply

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freelief

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Erich

Quick question freelief have you ever purchased an ebook? If so why did you buy it? As a Graphics Designer I would like to get your opinion on this Clickbank website Fat Loss 4 Idiots / Weight Loss and Diet Center The reason I ask is who is your market and are you able to communicate with them?

Yes, I've bought a couple of eBooks. Both with regard to success with Squidoo.

Second, replying not as a designer but as a human, I don't consider myself an idiot (ignorant, sure, but not an imbecile) so I would be immediately turned off by that.

However, from what I've seen on the sparse amount of TV I watch, mainstream America is not only totally fine with calling themselves dummies, they seem to revel in it.

Thanks
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ExRat 17 years ago

Hi freelief,

Blunt + dark sarcasm. I'm in like with you already.

However, from what I've seen on the sparse amount of TV I watch, mainstream America is not only totally fine with calling themselves dummies, they seem to revel in it.

Based on the latter quote, the feeling's mutual - RE - the former quote.

Speaking for my own - (the average UK tv viewer) - not only do they revel in it, they go to great lengths to be the dummy that everyone else points and laughs at. Apparently, nowadays, that's called 'fame.'
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- sylviad 17 years ago
  
  Rob makes a good and valid point. I'm from the journalism business - which stresses page design, proper layout and accurate sentences. When I see web pages that are not very well formatted, I too cringe and want to email the owners to give them some pointers. BTW, it doesn't work doing that - it just turns them off - they think you're some sort of swelled-headed idiot. So now I only offer when I'm asked.
  
  Most surfers don't know squat about design and therefore really don't much care. All they want is the goods. "What's in it for me", not "how pretty is the page". There's also the "instant gratification" issue. Visitors are only after one thing - information on the topic that brought them to your page. The sooner you feed it to them, the better your sales page will be.
  
  I'm seriously thinking of turning all my sales pages into bullet formats. Then they can just skim through the points and get to the sales button that much faster - before they know what hit them.
  
  Sylvia
  
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Erich

17 years ago

Originally Posted by freelief

Yes, I've bought a couple of eBooks. Both with regard to success with Squidoo.

Second, replying not as a designer but as a human, I don't consider myself an idiot (ignorant, sure, but not an imbecile) so I would be immediately turned off by that.

However, from what I've seen on the sparse amount of TV I watch, mainstream America is not only totally fine with calling themselves dummies, they seem to revel in it.

One of the reasons for my question, that website that insults us all made over 20 million last year and Clickbank affiliates drive almost 500,000 million visitors a month. It is one of the most successful Clickbank products online.

Many don't know why and many a thread has been written trying to understand why the copy does so well with the Cartoony Graphics and insulting Web Site name. I agree with your initial thoughts and reaction I feel the same.

My recommendation is really think about who is your audience you as a marketer you are trying to connect with? Are you a PC or Mac person as another example? People that are looking to lose weight already have self esteem issues...most of the time diet programs are marketed showing a former fat self and now skinny, hot and super successful...this site doesn't seem to do that...why is that, could that be one of the reasons it is so successful? Could it be working on the same psychological triggers but in new or different ways?

Who is your market and are you able to communicate to your market? Forget the rest of the people that isn't your market, if you try to make everyone happy, you will make no one happy. Go after your target and find a way to communicate with them maybe in new ways never thought of or could be completely different in how you would approach it. Again are you the target market?

If you get a chance check out this video on Marketing Persona's

Whiteboard Friday - Creating Marketing Personas

that is the point I am trying to make. You could be seeing an opportunity in the horse niche, you could come in and completely dominate it.

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freelief

17 years ago

Blunt + dark sarcasm. I'm in like with you already.

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JustDean

17 years ago

CICKBANK does make it a challenge to start out with. I hope you get your head round it

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sunnyman

17 years ago

mainstream America is not only totally fine with calling themselves dummies, they seem to revel in it.

Yes, there is this old saying:
"When in Rome - do as the Romans!"

-- Which is what successful marketers have learned. If you want to be a marketer in a mainstream market it is do that - or die.

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ShabirAli

17 years ago

Try promoting others products ist. get experience about niche and then start your own project.

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lcombs

17 years ago

As a general rule whenever I find myself agreeing with the majority I immediately
re-think my position.
As far as what's good and what actually sells...
2 words...
Brittany Spears.

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Dmitry 17 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Clickbank does nearly a million dollars in sales per day - yes day. There are definitely some successful imers with clickbank.

Let's say there are 10 successful marketers there, all giving 60% to their affiliates + ClickBank combined. So that's already $400k per day. Or $40k per marketer per day. I'm doing it just to put things into perspective. $40k a day per person is $1.2 million a month for that person... so you tell me that is BIG money? The facebook guy is big money. The Google guys are big money. As far as direct marketing the only big guys are behind Agora as far as I know, which of course is seriously questionable.

Originally Posted by lcombs

As a general rule whenever I find myself agreeing with the majority I immediately
re-think my position.

Nice tactic
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freelief

17 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

As a general rule whenever I find myself agreeing with the majority I immediately re-think my position.
As far as what's good and what actually sells...
2 words...
Brittany Spears.

Does it follow that I have to stoop to the level of Britney Spears to sell in the mainstream marketplace?

If I were to produce an eBook of my own and sell it on ClickBank, I wouldn't want my pitch to include any of the asinine things I've read in some of the "top performing" pages.

If Bob tells me he's got a proven horse training trick from the 1800s that will turn any wild Mustang stallion into a kids' show pony in 2-3 hours I am going to run, not walk, in the other direction. I don't feel quite right about selling Bob's book to Susie who doesn't know any better and have Susie's kid get a busted up leg for trying to whisper to Ol' Rowdy.

See, it's not just the LOOK of the pages. I'm not cool with directing people to sales pitch pages that try to convince them they've got microscopic lizards infesting their bowels. I exaggerate (only a little) but I'm not sure ClickBank is for me.

Let me back up and try to introduce myself.

I like Commission Junction. LinkShare is okay. Pepperjam Network is frustrating me. I haven't gotten into Shareasale yet.

I'm into Squidoo, but not as much as when it was new and shiny (went crazy with it early last year, but my infatuation faded) and I am twitterpated with CafePress ... getting a four figure check this month from November's sales and another next month for December.

I mostly hope to learn how best to use Facebook, Twitter, etc. to market my CafePress shops, and learn best practices for Squidoo that involve less time-consuming updating.

Hi.

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Erich 17 years ago

Freelief you just wrote the first part of your sales copy and hope you realize it? Have you found any good Horse Training or Sites online yet? You have an integrity that sounds like is missing in your market. I am sure the customers are tired of wasting time on stuff that doesn't work or worse get themselves or the horse hurt.

You could create a paid membership site that provides real world advice and information that people are hungry for in your market? Here is an example of what I mean this could be part of your sales copy? Clickbank provides 60 guarantee for any product that is sold so anyone that doesn't feel you provide value can request a refund.

How many times did you buy a horse training book or found a site hoping it would truly help does this story sound familiar before?

Here is an example of the copy you could write for: This could be an ebook or monthly recurring billing site people can join.

Example !!

Expert Horse Training Coaching which is an exclusive paid membership site with videos, guides and information to solve the toughest challenges. Do you want to train your horse the right way? Find out why metal bits are no good and using natural training methods are superior !

"Bob tells me he's got a proven horse training trick from the 1800s that will turn any wild Mustang stallion into a kids' show pony in 2-3 hours I am going to run, not walk, in the other direction."

I don't feel quite right about selling Bob's book to Susie who doesn't know any better and have Susie's kid get a busted up leg for trying to whisper to Ol' Rowdy.

You will find that I have over 20 years of Horse Training Experience and I take it very seriously. The information I share is from real world experience and will help you.

You could sell an ebook or monthly membership site. A monthly membership site could be 19 dollars a month and you can answer specific questions people may have or troubles they are facing.

Each month you release a new module on a new technique or method. If it get's to big you can hire moderators to help you with it.

The bottom line it really sounds like your market could be in need of someone with your integrity and you could be overwhelmed with the amount of customers hungry for that experience.
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- freelief 17 years ago
  
  I like the direction you're going with it, but I'm an intermediate rider, not an expert or a trainer.
  
  I have a large group of horse friends I could poll for answers to questions such as "How do I get a horse to load into a trailer?" but I'd get 10 different answers and then the group would start bickering about whose idea was the best.
  
  I guess I need the confidence to call myself an expert. I've written dozens of horse-related lenses on Squidoo (under user ID: allhorses) but there are dozens of niches just within the category of horseback riding.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Erich 17 years ago
  
  You use your network interview them over the phone or Skype offer the audio to your paid members. Give them the choice go 10 proven methods to get a horse in a trailer. Interview each one with the same set of questions no horse or situation is identical and I bet your members would get value from each method....I would more interested in a horse training site that had multiple experts contributing...than just 1 person...you could offer these friends a share or an opportunity to be featured....are these people spread across the US....maybe you can offer to help your members interview or find experienced horse trainers....you can do this it sounds like your market needs it badly and if you brought that level of service you would be overwhelmed.
  
  Offer basic membership 19, silver at 29.99 and then private coaching is available as well. Do you think you can get 500 people to eventually sign-up to your forum? Do you understand what upsells and backend, how to market to a list? This could be an automatic reoccurring billing of 15k to 20k a month? Do you have large group of horse friends from Twitter and MySpace you can completely use Social 2.0 to get known....and market to those followers, find additional experts.
  
  You have the confidence you just need to action, with your high level of integrity. Look at how you started this thread you had the confidence to say you know what this isn't right and this can be better. You can't tell me this is the best in the industry right now? You knew right away you could do it better or would find a way to do it better otherwise you don't want to be associated with it.
  
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  freelief 17 years ago
  
  The way you explain it, Erich, it sounds doable ... but then there is that pesky 9-5 to juggle as well. I love my day job, great pay and benefits, and between kids & critters I need it.
  
  I do have a SAHM horse friend who might be able to take care of the backside, already has a horse forum with 400+ members and I can think of a dozen others who would help.
  
  Gives me something to chew on. Thank you for the insight.
  
  Thanks
  
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  freelief 17 years ago
  
  Cali16, thanks for the welcome!
  
  Yeah, hard not to think like a graphic designer sometimes ... it has been drilled into our heads that good design sells the message.
  
  Thanks
  
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  freelief 17 years ago
  
  It just occurred to me, if I had my own horse-related eBook, I wouldn't mind having a link to it on all of my horse-related Squidoo lenses.
  
  I can see it now ... what to do if your horse steps on your foot ... what to do if you fall off in public ... how to floss with a strand of tail hair ...
  
  Thanks
  
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tomw

17 years ago

Based on so much stuff already mentioned...

...why not just have the pictures?

Thomas

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freelief

17 years ago

I have a PM I can't reply to unless I make 5 more posts (now 4) and it's driving me nuts.

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freelief

17 years ago

In other news, I've gained a few Twitter followers today.

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sylviad 17 years ago

freerelief,

Have you considered picking just one aspect of horses as your focus? I see you say there is a lot.

You know, regardless of your topic, there will be people who disagree with your tactics. That doesn't necessarily mean they aren't all right or wrong. There can be more than one right answer. For example, getting a horse into a trailer - will likely depend on the particular horse, the handler, and anything in that environment that can make the horse obey or not obey.

I wouldn't worry too much about those disagreers. (don't think that's a word though ). Just take your subject one area at a time, get up to speed and then move on to another area. Talk to real experts to fill in the gaps.

It can be done.

Sylvia
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Cali16

17 years ago

Originally Posted by freelief

As a graphic designer, most of the "sales pitch" pages I've previewed make me want to vomit.

Who has success with ClickBank?

Do you sell other people's eBooks or your own?

Anyone really turned off by the pitch pages as well?

[/I]

"Pretty" sales pages are not what makes the sale, as a general rule. Meeting a need as well as compelling ad copy that taps into people's emotions (particularly fear of loss, which is a more powerful motivator than pleasure of gain) is what makes the sale.

Some of the most effective and profitable sales pages and websites are often not very attractive. In fact, some are just plain ugly. But they work. While subconsciously aesthetics may play a small part in someone's decision making (depending a lot on the target market and what they are looking for), in online sales it is often only a pretty small part overall, if any.

FatLoss4Idiots, IMO, is a perfect example of that. I've never liked the sales page, in terms of its graphics or the fact that the buyer had to make several clicks to finally buy it, yet it has been a hugely successful product. But the idea of losing 9 lbs in 11 days (if I recall correctly) goes straight to the heart of someone who is desparate to lose weight, has failed on other diets, and wants to lose it fast.

As others have pointed out, you are thinking like a graphic designer (which is totally understandable, as that is what you do) rather than an internet marketer. (And your post wasn't offensive, IMO...you were expressing your opinion based on your background and experience, nothing wrong with that.) Welcome to the Warrior Forum!

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ExRat 17 years ago

Hi freelief,

Does it follow that I have to stoop to the level of Britney Spears to sell in the mainstream marketplace?

Sadly, yes.
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I hate ClickBank (or, what am I doing wrong?)

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