Affiliate Marketers: How do I attract and keep the heavy hitter affiliate marketers?

by BarryADensa

Posted: 14 years ago 35 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

Hi Warriors,

I understand that the pros among affiliate marketers only want to promote quality products -- with lots and lots of sales.

They don't want to sully their rep with garbage offers, nor do they want to sacrifice income by offering products that don't sell, in place of those that do.

But here's my dilemma, we're talking about a new venture here so I don't have the sales, yet -- but the products, a bookcase of ebooks that have "desperation" appeal, is of high quality (and let's assume there is no argument there).

So how do I go about finding and landing the pros?

Note: I don't want to go to clickbank or any other affiliate network that will control the sales process -- sales will go through me (my company).

If though, on the other hand, I have to wait till big sales numbers are apparent -- will a pro want to see a balance sheet? Will they want to see an Alexa traffic printout (or any other traffic aggregator)? What do they need to vet me?

Conversely, how do I vet the pros?

And where do I find the "good ones." Now someone, I'm sure, is going to say networking, but if physical, face-to-face networking isn't possible -- where online do the elephants go?

And once signed on, how do I ensure that an affiliate, is keeping his/her nose clean in the promoting of the products -- i.e., not over-promising, or in anyway, impugning my company's reputation?

Oh yeah, if I offer a very generous guarantee to the ebook buyer (a 6 month money back guarantee) would that be a turn off to a pro? And how would I manage that visa vis the affiliate?

And talking of turnoffs -- what are the turn-offs -- things that would repel a pro (from the management of the affiliate program to...I don't know, whatever?)

Now I realize I've presented a lot of questions, so I'd appreciate it if you answer whichever one's you have a strong opinion about.

Thanks a bunch!

--Barry

#affiliate #affiliate management #affiliate marketers #attract #heavy #hitter #marketers

nicheblogger75 14 years ago

I would say the best way is to have a high quality product and offer a good comission that is at least $25 or more per sale.

There are affiliates (including myself) who will promote products for $10 commission, but that is if I know it's a great pproduct my list will be responsive to and I can sell a large quantity of the (at least 10or more per broadcast).

Most "heavy hitter" affilioates know what their list wants and might be more apt to promote a lower commission product if they are sure they can sell a lot of them.
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theomegaformula 14 years ago

You definitely have to pay high commissions. I'm talking about 35-60% if you're looking to land big affiliate fish that will stay with you long term. As far as your product goes it's better to have a recurring product. I would say that something you can sell for $20-29/month at that commission rate should keep everyone happy long term and continue to drive sales. Anything more than that and they might see it as a hard sale.. and it might be in this economy.
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BarryADensa 14 years ago

The minimum on commission I would pay is 50% and as high as 75%, or more -- provided, 1) the affiliate has a humongous list. 2) I can be reasonably assured that non-buyers would subscribe to my newsletter (so I can continue to market to them)

Somehow though I would want to assure the affiliate (I guess that's a software question) that if the subscriber ever buys the title that was being promoted the affiliate would still get his commission.
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YOUNEEDTOHEARTHIS

Banned 14 years ago

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DianaHeuser

14 years ago

Originally Posted by YOUNEEDTOHEARTHIS

Also try PMing senior members of forums such as this as they usually have nice email lists

I would not try that unless you know them well. They get spammed all day long from people trying to get them to become affiliates. That will probably get you banned.

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by DianaHeuser

I would not try that unless you know them well. They get spammed all day long from people trying to get them to become affiliates. That will probably get you banned.

This is super true.

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BeeJay 14 years ago

Just some quick suggestions:

Finding affiliates can be as simple as putting in your keyword search, and then finding sites that are already promoting competitor products in your same niche. If your product has 'desperation appeal' then chances are someone is already promoting something similar (but hopefully not as good) as you are, and if they are already crushing the niche, leverage their ability with an attractive offer.

Competant affiliates are going to have some key questions you'll need answers to:

1. Do you offer a good commission. Offering them a high commission on the front end as well as a smaller commission on any OTO's can be attractive.

2. How well is your sales page converting? In other words, is your commission and conversion rate going to make it worth thier while to stop promoting whatever they are at the moment and start promoting yours. You may need some data on your sales page before being able to answer that question.

3. How deep is your sales funnel? Do they earn commissions only on the front end? Is their a single OTO, or an upsell/downsell? Do they get a piece of that?

4. How are you tracking affiliate sales? Can they be assured of being credit a sale for a prospect who hit your site three months ago?

5. Is your product good enough to be worth recommending to their list? Lets assume you can tick this box, but they will usually want to see it.

6. What tools are you offering to help your affiliates? Do you have an email series they can use instead of including an opt in on the sales page? Do you have promotional emails they can send to their list. Got banners? How about unique sales pages and special offers for the really heavy hitters? Do you offer bonus' for sales milestones? The easier you make it, the more likely they are to come on board. Also, it can help control your sales process a bit if you offer this type of material and make it slightly less likely that you'll have affiliates making the unrealistic promises you were hoping to avoid.

There's a lot more than that but hopefully that gives you some food for thought on how to make being your affiliate an attractive proposition.

Good luck mate.
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Ti 14 years ago

You won't find any big fish affiliates by doing your own in-house system since you have no reputation.

Clickbank is a must, no exception.
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BarryADensa

14 years ago

@ Ncmedia:

The two things you'll quickly come to find out about running your own in-house aff program is that you are left wide open to scams

Can you give examples of scams?

(inhouse programs have to use their own merch - thus easily killing your funnel with PayPal/other merchant account - this could easily be done by a competitor too - I become your affiliate, and sink you with some friends helping)

You lost me here.

@Ben:

What's OTO?

an upsell/downsell? Do they get a piece of that?

Why not. From my perspective, a half loaf is better than no loaf.

To answer some questions:

Software I'd use: Idevaffiliate. Hopefully that would alleviate concerns of tracking.

Providing sales and conversion data: understood.

Providing sales tools: That's my business; that's how I'm putting my kid through college, making 3 car payments, a mortgage, yada, yada -- my ads, sales letters convert. Period.

Let's lay off clickbank -- it ain't gonna happen.

But guys, thanks, I need to hear all this. Keep it coming, please.

--Barry

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BeeJay 14 years ago

Sorry

OTO = one time offer
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jacksonlin 14 years ago

You need to proactively target product owners. The product owners are the ones with the biggest list. Start promoting them first, make a few sales and then you'll be able to get their attention a bit more.
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- myob 14 years ago
  
  Three huge turnoffs for prospective affiliate marketers IMO is:
  
  1). No apparent practical experience in running an affiliate program.
  
  2). Not demonstrably knowing some basics (ie what's an OTO).
  
  3). Refusing to use Clickbank or any reputable network.
  
  That's three strikes against you right off the bat. :rolleyes:
  
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BarryADensa

14 years ago

Well, gee, thanks, myob. I guess I'll just pack up and go home now.

It ain't gonna happen.

But thanks anyway. I do appreciate the opinion.

Keep 'em coming, guys.

Thanks
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14 years ago

Originally Posted by BarryADensa

Well, gee, thanks, myob. I guess I'll just pack up and go home now.

It ain't gonna happen.

But thanks anyway. I do appreciate the opinion.

Keep 'em coming, guys.

Reread what Myob said a dozen times or more until it sinks in as the truth.

Thanks
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Alexa Smith Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ti

Reread what Myob said a dozen times or more until it sinks in as the truth.

^^^^ This.

You'll appreciate that I mean this helpfully, I hope: don't dismiss it because you didn't like it, Barry.

(If you knew what Myob earns from affiliate marketing, you wouldn't dream of doing that. He was right, and what he said matters. Professional affiliates want not to be dependent for payment on a vendor with no practical experience of running an affiliate program. You need to use DigiResults or ClickBank or RapBank or whatever, to attract us. Otherwise we won't even look. And when you start looking at it from our perspective - which is what you need to do, here - you'll understand why).
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H.Miller 14 years ago

There are 2 things that attract me to an affiliate product and make me want to go all out to promote it. One is a quality product that I know will make me money and two is the amount of affiliate tools they provide to help me promote the product. Articles, videos, free reports to give away, keywords etc.
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Andy Fletcher 14 years ago

I have no idea why this forum is so obsessed with stats that are meaningless.

Top affiliates only have a secondary caring about things like conversion rates, commission percentages etc.

The key number that it all boils down to is relevant EPCs - Earnings per click.

Also please note the keyword - RELEVANT.

If I'm an email marketer with a WSO based list then I want to know how other people have done promoting the offer to lists that came from WSOs.

If I'm a blog owner I want to know EPCs for banner ads on blogs.

If I'm a media buyer I want to know how other media buys have done.

If you can't sweet talk a couple of list owners into taking a punt on you, pay for a solo ad and derisk it.

If you can't get blog owners to trial your banners, pay for the ad space and derisk it.

If you can't find a media buy guy to give you a shot, pay for some media buys and derisk it.

Know your numbers inside and out, develop a great track record and the rest is easy
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- drmani 14 years ago
  
  It's a simple question to answer - once you get out of your own head,
  and INTO that of a super-affiliate.
  
  Ask yourself: Why would a SUPER-affiliate (who has a choice of working
  with just about anyone) choose to work WITH YOU?
  
  In other words, what about YOU and YOUR PRODUCT is so compelling and
  appealing enough to attract a super-affiliate to you?
  
  It may be great commissions, great conversion rates, product with
  popular appeal, or something unique about you personally which may
  speak to them in a special way.
  
  From experience I can tell you that it isn't any one or the other all
  the time - and individuals will respond to various different elements
  in your overall offer... and that includes SUPER-affiliates, too.
  
  If not, I'd never have managed to get the heaviest hitters in the
  industry promote my products over many years.
  
  All success
  Dr.Mani
  
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Jeff Lenney 14 years ago

I'll tell you what's worked for me, and how I've made some GREAT contacts (top 10 guru types) that will promote for me when I do my launch.

Promote THEIR products during launch, promote like crazy and get on the leader board.

Email them a month or a few weeks before your launch, and ask them to kindly return the favor.

I've put things like this before in the subject line and it works:

Hey {guru name}, I sold $3500(or however much) worth of your product

People want to know what you've done for them sometimes, if you've made them sales and money - they'll often return the favor. Reciprocals are powerful in this industry.
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BarryADensa 14 years ago

Okay, this is great, we're getting down to the nitty gritty here...

Now I'm not familiar with the other ad networks, so I don't know if Clickbank is the only one that controls the sales process -- and by that I mean when the ebook purchaser checks out, what he or she sees is that the ebook is being sold by Clickbank.

My company, therefore, is not mentioned and recognized.

But considering the amount of marketing and advertising, online and off, that I plan on doing to promote not only the ebooks but my company, too -- I do not see the wisdom in removing my company from the equation. (And that Clickbank can veto the price, is another issue entirely.)

Yet, if within the ebook itself it can be noted (along with links to my company's website, along with an inducement to register for a newsletter) that my company is the publisher, that might indeed be a workaround. But would Clickbank or others accept that, or ask that it be removed?

Secondly, since I am not the author of these eBooks (the author's names will be on the ebooks) but the publisher and distributer -- can I offer them through these affiliate networks?

So my biggest concern, and the reason why I'm kicking and screaming about affiliate networks, is this:

I must have the ability to grow my list. And the list, as any marketer understands, is where the gold is.

Indeed, I intend to to operate at breakeven or even less (for a defined period of time) so long as my list grows exponentially.

Regarding Myobs other 2 observations: My ignorance.

Well, I now know what OTO and EPC are -- so my understanding of the basics has increased 300%. And the longer this thread lasts, and the opinions keep coming -- I'm only getting smarter -- with help from all of you, of course.

Regarding experience running an affiliate program -- well, obviously, that comes with the doing -- so that's a bit of a catch 22.

Nevertheless, if super affiliates don't trust or like newbies or vendors running an affiliate program, I'm sure there are 3rd party service providers that can do it on my behalf.

And I've got no problem outsourcing that.

Would that satisfy affiliates? If so are there any recommendations on service providers?

Thanks again, guys -- I appreciate your wisdom.
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- Alexa Smith Banned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BarryADensa
  
  I'm sure there are 3rd party service providers that can do it on my behalf.
  
  And I've got no problem outsourcing that.
  
  Would that satisfy affiliates?
  
  No, probably not.
  
  Because typically we won't even know about it, or look at it. We look at places where we don't have to worry about such things. Running an affiliate business entails quite enough stuff without worries about "whether we'll get paid" impingeing on our consciousness. We have 15,000 products to choose from on ClickBank alone. And that's without mentioning Rap Bank and DigiResults.
  
  When you refer to "building your list", Barry, are you talking about a customer list (i.e. people who have bought - not a problem at all, of course) or a potential customer list (prospect-list - different matter entirely)?
  
  The reason I ask is that the affiliates you want to attract, the professional ones, the good ones, however you describe them, are not going to promote a product for which the vendor's going to try to capture our prospects for his list before a sale's made. For all the obvious reasons and then some. (We have other stuff to sell, too, and if our time, effort, energy, skills and expenses have generated the lead, we want that person on our list, not on yours, if you'll excuse my putting it bluntly).
  
  If it helps you, it's explained in great detail (and at great length) in this fine thread which really is well worth reading carefully.
  
  Please excuse me if I'm stating the obvious, here: I assure you, absolutely no disrespect implied or intended, but clearly - for many reasons - there's a huge conflict between a vendor building a prospect-list and expecting affiliates to refer prospects to his sales page. A customer-list (buyers' list), obviously, is a completely different matter altogether - nobody begrudges you that: once they buy from you, they're "yours". But not until.
  
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BarryADensa 14 years ago

Well, I want both customers and prospects -- for obvious reasons.

And why can't we both have them?

So if you send someone to my sales page whereon is a sign-up box for a newsletter, so I can obviously continue to market to them if they don't buy -- but when they do eventually buy that particular ebook, you get a commission -- where is the problem?

Is that the gnashing of Myob's teeth at my ignorance?

I'll proceed anyway...

So is the complaint that you are, in essence, providing me with leads for which you may not be compensated for?

And if so, aren't there ways for you to be compensated for that lead?

For example, a huge commission on the sale that makes it worthwhile, higher conversions, or some other modus operandi -- after all, joint ventures often entail marketing to each other's list, with the expectation that they will end up sharing lists to some degree.

And isn't affiliate marketing a joint venture?

Alternatively, as mentioned in that thread you pointed me to, Alexa, (thanks by the way) I could always provide a sales page without an opt-in box, to those affiliates that prefer it.

And getting back to my question about affiliate networks allowing sign-up offers within the ebook -- is that a possible?

Because it seems we're eliminating the turnoffs, and if Clickbank and others allow the insertion of a sign-up offer, the only turn-off left is my ignorance.
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- myob 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BarryADensa
  
  Is that the gnashing of Myob's teeth at my ignorance?
  
  I'll proceed anyway...
  
  We're really just trying to be helpful to you, as to what it takes to attract top affiliate marketers. So, you can do what you want, but here's the deal as far as I'm concerned: You get customers only, no prospect leads. Anything funny going on like leaky sales pages, optins, free offers etc and you'll more than likely get dropped like a hot potato. That's just the way it is. Hint: read Alexa's reference again ... "a dozen times or more until it sinks in as the truth".
  
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Ti 14 years ago

I think you misunderstand what Clickbank is. Clickbank is not an ad network.

To the customer, Clickbank is merely a payment processor.

To the affiliate, Clickbank is the respectable and reliable known entity that issues the checks.

To the vendor, Clickbank is the payment processor and enabler of affiliate handling.

You control the price. You control the sales pitch page. You control what you sell. You control the sales process. You control the customer mailing lists. You control everything but the affiliate payment and customer funds collection process.
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BarryADensa 14 years ago

Ti, based on threads I've read here, clickbank has to approve of the contents and the price.

Of course, I can contact clickbank directly about my concerns -- but I thought this thread might be a quicker alternative.
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MatthewNeer 14 years ago

One really important thing you should focus on is creating a squeeze page specifically to recruiting affiliates and push that pretty hard whenever you get the chance.

One great forum for recruiting affiliates specifically for clickbank is eWealth. Go there, create an account, and start getting those top affiliates.
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- Ti 14 years ago
  
  I suggest you go to Clickbank.com and read more about them since I believe you really need to do so as your comments lead me to believe you are lacking a full understanding.
  
  Clickbank does not approve a product nor do they approve a price.
  
  Because of how affiliate tracking works (eg, cookie depositing, payment integration, etc), obviously Clickbank needs to validate you have things correctly set up before your account is approved.
  
  Also, for obvious reasons, Clickbank does not allow illegal sales processes, ones that are scammy, etc.
  
  Thanks
  
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BarryADensa 14 years ago

I understand and appreciate that, Paul. Just thought I'd insert a little levity here and there.

As for that other thread: I'll offer a choice of sales pages for affiliates that want the opt-in not variety.

As for underhandedness...the truism in marketing is: it takes years to build a list and a business, and mere minutes to lose it all

I'm not willing to sacrifice the pillars my business may eventually stand on for a few shekels of quick gain.

Ti, you may be right, I'll have to contact them directly.

Okay, now I know some of what affiliates want and require.

What about the other side of the equation: what do I need to know to protect myself from underhanded affiliates?

Thanks again -- to all.
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BarryADensa

14 years ago

Alexa, yes, I understand the 80/20 rule, or in the case of affiliates the 90/10 rule.

That's why, in the post immediate above, I said a no opt-in sales page will be offered -- or am I still missing something here?

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BarryADensa

Sorry, Barry - I think I owe you an apology, here. I did reply again, but then as soon as I'd submitted my post, I noticed that you'd made exactly that comment (which of course answered my previous comment!) and quickly deleted my post ... and I think it was in reply to my now-deleted post that you (perfectly reasonably!) said this. Please excuse me: this was entirely unintentional, and my mistake - I do appreciate how annoying it can be when you reply to something only to discover that it's disappeared.

:rolleyes:

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Ti 14 years ago

Your decision of an opt-in or no opt-in really does not impact the decision to use Clickbank. The ball literally is in your court with them. To give you an example of how Clickbank works, go to pwnboxer.com, buy my product, and watch the general flow between my site, clickbank, and the delivery of my product (software) to you.

*wink*
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BarryADensa 14 years ago

Please, Alexa, there's absolutely no apology necessary.

And I certainly didn't intend to come across in that post as being, well, cross or short with you, anymore than myob had intended that in his original post. (Sometimes words fail us -- and here I'm a copywriter no less, ugh)

I just thought I was missing something -- and I've already read your referred thread 3 times -- and I was beginning to feel like a dunce for missing something.

You've been extremely helpful, as everyone else has been, and for which I am grateful and humbled by the generosity of your time and efforts.
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- drmani 14 years ago
  
  Time and again, dogmatic remarks made on discussions here make me
  think about the aphorism:
  
  "What you don't know is what you don't know!"
  
  I've run JV promotions where the product and sales letter
  were untested, the conversion rates were abysmal, where I had
  opt-in landing pages, had sales 'leaks' and more - with JVs
  who had access to lists of half-million to over a million
  prospects... and that was because I found a way to make it
  ATTRACTIVE for them to work with me.
  
  This sounds difficult to understand for many people, beginners
  and advanced marketers alike - that because YOU do something
  or think about something in ONE way, it does NOT mean it's the
  ONLY way to do/think it!
  
  If I only state the point, it sounds abstract.
  
  But think about this statement and you'll come up with insights
  that break down into tactics highlighted in this discussion
  (and more):
  
  "WHY would a SUPER-affiliate choose to work with YOU?"
  
  Answer it - and you 'crack the code'!
  
  All success
  Dr.Mani
  
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BarryADensa 14 years ago

@ the good Dr.

Understood completely -- different strokes for different folks; it's just a matter of finding their sweet spot.

And basically it's what every successful direct marketer worthy of his Claude Hopkins already knows -- test, test and test, without end.
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Barry A Densa - Freelance Marketing & Sales Copywriter - WritingWithPersonality.com

Download a FREE copy of my new eBook, containing 21 of my most outrageous rants, when you visit my blog: Marketing Wit & Wisdom
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Chris Worner 14 years ago

Hiring a good copy writer to create your sales page/funnel never hurts either.

-Chris
- Thanks
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BarryADensa 14 years ago

I beg your pardon!
- Thanks
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Barry A Densa - Freelance Marketing & Sales Copywriter - WritingWithPersonality.com

Download a FREE copy of my new eBook, containing 21 of my most outrageous rants, when you visit my blog: Marketing Wit & Wisdom
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