Where is the money? Its in Teaching NOT Doing

231 replies
At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

#money #teaching
  • Profile picture of the author Doherty192
    I agree. Putting together your own product is very profitable. It just has to be relavent, and fresh!
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  • Profile picture of the author Wilson Low
    hmm, i guess good won't exist without evil?

    I mean if every1 goes into teaching, then who's in the 'doing' category?
    Besides, unless one has good experienced in this field, how can they teach before doing it beforehand (the learning process) :p
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by Wilson Low View Post

      Besides, unless one has good experienced in this field, how can they teach before doing it beforehand (the learning process) :p
      If you dont think that 90% of the "experts" selling there money making schemes are bull****ting there way through, well I dont know what to tell you. Yu are on the internet, you can be anyone you want and noone knows wiser.
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    • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
      Originally Posted by Wilson Low View Post

      hmm, i guess good won't exist without evil?

      I mean if every1 goes into teaching, then who's in the 'doing' category?
      Besides, unless one has good experienced in this field, how can they teach before doing it beforehand (the learning process) :p
      People will always want to know how they can get money without doing any work.

      The 'secret' to making money online is... work...

      Either the work is a small amount of time on an ongoing basis, or a large amount of time up front.

      The buyer gets the book, reads it, then sits back on their ass and surfs the net for another 'secret' :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Wilson Low
    oh, sorry, forgot to mention this - yeah, not that I disagree with the 'teaching' theory/approach, just that there are many (like me lol) who's not there yet to be teaching others
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I can assure you that many more people are making money by doing than they are by selling 'how to do'. A lot of people that supplement their income by teaching people how to do what they do are making far more money by actually doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      I can assure you that many more people are making money by doing than they are by selling 'how to do'. A lot of people that supplement their income by teaching people how to do what they do are making far more money by actually doing.
      Odd, why would one need to supplement there income when they are selling a proven system that makes boatloads of cash. Cmon, it cant be this easy

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      • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        Odd, why would one need to supplement there income when they are selling a proven system that makes boatloads of cash. Cmon, it cant be this easy

        I agree that a lot of people selling and promoting IM courses are probably not making much themselves doing what they preach. This is a big part of what gives internet marketers a bad name, unfortunately. A common thing I see on this forum is people asking the most basic of questions (how can I make money?) while having a site in their signature promoting some kind of money making training guide. Not quite the same situation, but very similar.

        Sure, you can make money selling guides or training when you aren't actually any good at it yourself, but I guess it comes down to your own morals. Just like I don't feel comfortable promoting shady Clickbank products, I wouldn't feel right trying to sell a guide on something I don't know well myself.

        I certainly do plan on creating some IM niche products/courses when I feel I'm doing well enough and have enough knowledge that I could give people valuable information. While I am making good money now, I don't exactly think I know it well enough to be able to teach someone else to do it.
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      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        Odd, why would one need to supplement there income when they are selling a proven system that makes boatloads of cash. Cmon, it cant be this easy

        I make a good living selling tangible products online. I double my income by showing others how to do what I do. What is the problem with that?
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      • Profile picture of the author pdrs
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        Odd, why would one need to supplement there income when they are selling a proven system that makes boatloads of cash. Cmon, it cant be this easy

        Hey "Mr. Online since '99",

        I'm no marketing genius but I do believe there is one word to explain this - it's usually mentioned in any university 'Intro To Marketing' or 'Marketing 101' class - 'Diversification'.

        Not to mention the endless personal contacts, and mutually beneficial relationships that are forged out of teaching others.

        It sounds like you got burned or are really bitter about something and got the ole Tinfoil hat out.

        I know that yes, there are a ton of people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk - but there are certainly people who make a good income from marketing as well as teaching. Not to mention that *gasp* some people genuinely enjoy it...

        Be smart - if someone is offering you a "push button" "game changing" "million dollar solution" then just hit the delete button and carry on past like you would a scientologist on the street

        But if you find someone who can offer you some good advice for a reasonable price - often times it's worth it's weight in gold.

        -Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author Security
          Banned
          Do you understand how new the internet is in relative terms?

          There are MILLIONS to be made in a multitude of facets online. Remember back in the 1990's, people were saying the internet was "tapped out" and now people are saying "If only I was in this back in the 90's I would have made so much money buying domains, etc.".....

          The same is true for today, in 10 years people are going to be saying, "damn back in 2011 it was cake." Just because an individual is not smart enough to think of how to do it, doesn't mean everyone is not smart enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    I've personally talked to one marketer that makes 7 figs a year, another that does 8.

    Neither of them touches the IM niche with a 40 foot pole.
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    • Profile picture of the author mickmccrory
      Learning internet marketing and applying those skills to other niches is one of the best ways to earn a living and build a business. The ROI is also much quicker.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
      Originally Posted by Justin Stowe View Post

      I've personally talked to one marketer that makes 7 figs a year, another that does 8.

      Neither of them touches the IM niche with a 40 foot pole.
      Amen to that. I don't make 7 figures but I make 6 and I don't each anything and I've never been in IM. The closest thing I come to is being a leader in a mastermind group on investing. Most days I learn more than I lead.
      .
      Woodsy, for the love of God look up the difference between 'there', they're and 'their' before you post again. Makes the fillings in my teeth hurt.

      Thomas
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      • Profile picture of the author Chicago87
        Originally Posted by Thomas Wilkinson View Post

        Amen to that. I don't make 7 figures but I make 6 and I don't each anything and I've never been in IM. The closest thing I come to is being a leader in a mastermind group on investing. Most days I learn more than I lead.
        .
        Woodsy, for the love of God look up the difference between 'there' and 'their' before you post again. Makes the fillings in my teeth hurt.

        Thomas
        Thomas,

        I am a bit confused here, why have you been a member on this forum for several years if you have never been in IM?
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
          Originally Posted by Chicago87 View Post

          Thomas,

          I am a bit confused here, why have you been a member on this forum for several years if you have never been in IM?
          I should have made myself clearer. I market online but I don't have anything to do with the "get money" niche.
          There are many other things to learn here.
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          When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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    • Profile picture of the author PatriciaS
      Originally Posted by Justin Stowe View Post

      I've personally talked to one marketer that makes 7 figs a year, another that does 8.

      Neither of them touches the IM niche with a 40 foot pole.
      Yeah, sometimes I get the impression the IM niche is just a bunch of us -- though a very BIG bunch -- talking and selling back and forth to ourselves, with not all that much "there" there. Other times, I'm sure I'm wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author thadbong
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

    There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

    Sorry buddy, you're still only at Chapter 1, here's how the rest of the story pans out.

    So you figure that "teaching" a.k.a. trying to help someone do something that you can't actually do yourself is a good way to make a quick buck. Good, so you set yourself up as some kind of a "coach", throw out some WSOs hoping some suckers will bite.

    Only problem is, what kind of testimonials or results do you have to stand on? ZERO. Sure, maybe you've got a few internet marketing buddies who will help you out in that regard, or if all else fails there's always the "review copy" route or even paying someone to write a glowing recommendation for you.

    Your problems are only going to grow bigger once you get some suckers to bite. They'll come to you, with all kinds of questions that you won't be able to answer and YOU ARE GOING TO BE FOUND OUT VERY QUICKLY.

    ...Or not, in which case you're always going to be living in dread that one day, you will wake up and EVERYONE WILL KNOW YOU ARE A FRAUD.

    The way I see it, it's much easier to actually have the goods and deliver it, than to try to pretend that you do and spend every waking moment trying to look like you're the real deal.

    Go ahead and try it your way if you're not convinced.
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by thadbong View Post

      Sorry buddy, you're still only at Chapter 1, here's how the rest of the story pans out.

      So you figure that "teaching" a.k.a. trying to help someone do something that you can't actually do yourself is a good way to make a quick buck. Good, so you set yourself up as some kind of a "coach", throw out some WSOs hoping some suckers will bite.

      Only problem is, what kind of testimonials or results do you have to stand on? ZERO. Sure, maybe you've got a few internet marketing buddies who will help you out in that regard, or if all else fails there's always the "review copy" route or even paying someone to write a glowing recommendation for you.

      Your problems are only going to grow bigger once you get some suckers to bite. They'll come to you, with all kinds of questions that you won't be able to answer and YOU ARE GOING TO BE FOUND OUT VERY QUICKLY.

      ...Or not, in which case you're always going to be living in dread that one day, you will wake up and EVERYONE WILL KNOW YOU ARE A FRAUD.

      The way I see it, it's much easier to actually have the goods and deliver it, than to try to pretend that you do and spend every waking moment trying to look like you're the real deal.

      Go ahead and try it your way if you're not convinced.
      Well having been in business online since 1999, Im a bit past chapter 1. You guys believe all those silly testimonials? You really do? Seriously? All those google adsense screenshots? Please tell me your not that gullible? Simple crowd here it seems.
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    • Profile picture of the author IsGabeW
      Originally Posted by thadbong View Post

      Sorry buddy, you're still only at Chapter 1, here's how the rest of the story pans out.

      So you figure that "teaching" a.k.a. trying to help someone do something that you can't actually do yourself is a good way to make a quick buck. Good, so you set yourself up as some kind of a "coach", throw out some WSOs hoping some suckers will bite.

      Only problem is, what kind of testimonials or results do you have to stand on? ZERO. Sure, maybe you've got a few internet marketing buddies who will help you out in that regard, or if all else fails there's always the "review copy" route or even paying someone to write a glowing recommendation for you.

      Your problems are only going to grow bigger once you get some suckers to bite. They'll come to you, with all kinds of questions that you won't be able to answer and YOU ARE GOING TO BE FOUND OUT VERY QUICKLY.

      ...Or not, in which case you're always going to be living in dread that one day, you will wake up and EVERYONE WILL KNOW YOU ARE A FRAUD.

      The way I see it, it's much easier to actually have the goods and deliver it, than to try to pretend that you do and spend every waking moment trying to look like you're the real deal.

      Go ahead and try it your way if you're not convinced.
      I disagree with this because for one, many people simply enjoy and have the skills for teaching/coaching. It can be teaching math to kids or IM to adults. Not all coaches are a frauds. There are many good ones out there. A person looking for coaching just to choose a little more careful in the IM world because its easy to falsify results. But by no means are all coaches frauds.

      (And for the record, yes I do coaching for offline clients & ironically I have a WSO to try waters of having IM students)
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      • Profile picture of the author thadbong
        Originally Posted by IsGabeW View Post

        I disagree with this because for one, many people simply enjoy and have the skills for teaching/coaching. It can be teaching math to kids or IM to adults. Not all coaches are a frauds. There are many good ones out there. A person looking for coaching just to choose a little more careful in the IM world because its easy to falsify results. But by no means are all coaches frauds.

        (And for the record, yes I do coaching for offline clients & ironically I have a WSO to try waters of having IM students)
        Yes, but I would imagine that any teacher would have first successfully gone through what they are currently teaching. For example, a teacher who teaches 1st grade math would have first studied it and gained the necessary qualifications.

        So someone wants to set themselves up online as a trainer/coach, that's fine, I have no problems with that whatsoever. I DO have a problem with people who falsify their credentials to entice people to sign up with them. Not all coaches are frauds, but people who present themselves as knowledgeable in their field when they are not solely to gain clients ARE.
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        • Profile picture of the author IsGabeW
          Agreed Thad! Of course we all need to 'promote' our skills. But there is simply so much false self-hype out there. In any other industry, they'd probably be sued/shut down/investigated/etc...BUT I am not saying to regulate the internet as some USA politicians are saying. Maybe its just the downside of the internet that we all have to accept. Its definitely a tough issue to deal with...


          And also agree with you Matt...I always laugh/cannot believe when I see people asking the most basic questions, then they have a WSO promoting something the guarantee's $857,846,125 in one hour.

          It's a strange world out there....
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        • Profile picture of the author John Redlinger
          I have to admit, I was wondering about these people who seem to get "mountains of cash" and then are out there promoting one of these programs for $47 or thereabouts. I usually figured they had mighty expensive spending habits. I would always be envious reading their copy. I wish I could come with cash like some of these people claim they have. Many of the sales presentations mention "paid actors" posing as gurus and other tricks like big homes and fancy cars rented for the day. I really don't worry about it too much. I figure if there are people pulling stuff like that they will pay for it eventually.
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        • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
          Originally Posted by thadbong View Post

          For example, a teacher who teaches 1st grade math would have first studied it and gained the necessary qualifications.
          Ya right, you cant believe this is the case with all these "experts" selling there money making schemes. There is no formal mandated education to hawk your schemes online and prey on the newbies with fantasies of making millions.

          I havent seen very many products that boast, moderate income, they all boast overnight riches. Im shocked
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

            Ya right, you cant believe this is the case with all these "experts" selling there money making schemes. There is no formal mandated education to hawk your schemes online and prey on the newbies with fantasies of making millions.

            I havent seen very many products that boast, moderate income, they all boast overnight riches. Im shocked
            You're right in one respect. Many newbies are fantasizing and they look for the over the top, wildest claims and delude themselves into believing that those claims are possible.

            I have bought many products that teach things that I have made money from. I never buy products that promise ridiculous amount of wealth. I buy products from people on the forum that I trust and who are selling information that will benefit my business.
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        • Profile picture of the author eskimoto
          Originally Posted by thadbong View Post

          Yes, but I would imagine that any teacher would have first successfully gone through what they are currently teaching. For example, a teacher who teaches 1st grade math would have first studied it and gained the necessary qualifications.

          So someone wants to set themselves up online as a trainer/coach, that's fine, I have no problems with that whatsoever. I DO have a problem with people who falsify their credentials to entice people to sign up with them. Not all coaches are frauds, but people who present themselves as knowledgeable in their field when they are not solely to gain clients ARE.
          this is not true. what about an university lecturer teaching business? i bet that 90% of them have never had one, yet they have enoght knowledge to teach you how to do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    On the contrary...

    It's the guy who no one even knows about...

    Maybe he's even a college student sitting in his dorm room...

    And he's making more than many of the teachers combined.
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    • Profile picture of the author Excel Fields
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      On the contrary...

      It's the guy who no one even knows about...

      Maybe he's even a college student sitting in his dorm room...

      And he's making more than many of the teachers combined.
      I know someone like that! He's a friggin genius!
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        OP (and others)

        Serious problems happen whenever you with one mind assume you know how every other mind works. You may be right that some people can make more money from teaching than doing but you are wrong for making it a universal rule.

        Most successful Imers and SEO marketers (since the Op brought that up as well) already have a well oiled machine in place that costs them hundreds if not thousands of dollars a month to operate. Thats what they use today but they didn't always. There are ton loads of techniques that you use and graduate from. They WERE successful because they got you to another level where you can afford to use another system entirely. Plus if you are in the field you continually see new techniques that work but that will never be your bread and butter because well ...you have better resources.

        So why not share them? Why not make some coin on those things? Its part of IM. So while I might agree with you that there are a whole heap of people who can only make it by teaching I can't say its everyone who teaches and I can't even claim to know for a fact that anyone in particular fits that bill just from looking at a WSO or a signature.

        That would be stupid.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


          and I can't even claim to know for a fact that anyone in particular fits that bill just from looking at a WSO or a signature.

          That would be stupid.
          ...and when you perpetuate such presumptions and spread them, thats what my old Pastor calls "Stupid, gone to 'seed'".

          You become the Johnny Appleseed of stupid. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
    Great great points guys. Here's a point I've always thought: if the techniques work, why are they selling it? They could make so much more money teaching for free and taking a piece of the pie.

    I am invested in half a dozen marketing businesses and work with the owners to grow their business. I don't charge a dime and always willing to help any business that will give me a percentage (as long as I believe in the model)
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by pacelattin View Post

      Great great points guys. Here's a point I've always thought: if the techniques work, why are they selling it? They could make so much more money teaching for free and taking a piece of the pie.
      This is the whole rub. Guys need to take the blinders off. TEACHERS NEVER LOSE, they always get paid and they know the mass majority will fail, they will blame everyone but themselves. It is far easier to tell someone to do something and get paid then actually doing it and hoping it works.

      As I said, ofcourse you can make money in IM aside from teaching, but if you want to work SMART, become a teacher in your field you operate in and leave the HARD work to the student.
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      • Profile picture of the author networkersmagnet
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        This is the whole rub. Guys need to take the blinders off. TEACHERS NEVER LOSE, they always get paid and they know the mass majority will fail, they will blame everyone but themselves. It is far easier to tell someone to do something and get paid then actually doing it and hoping it works.

        As I said, ofcourse you can make money in IM aside from teaching, but if you want to work SMART, become a teacher in your field you operate in and leave the HARD work to the student.

        I one day told one of my students: "the difference between the Teacher and Him is that the teacher has a level of knowledge he acquired through books" but He doesn't make his money by applying his knowledge but by teaching it...

        so Yeah, the fastest way and i believe easiest is Teaching online than applying all these techniques yourself (there is an endless crowd of new internet users daily and many that are yet to know what is it to make money online)

        i do train my students to be trainers not much doers...(go look for people willing to learn how to make money online: ever green niche) and teach them what you have learn ..........
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      • Profile picture of the author pdrs
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        This is the whole rub. Guys need to take the blinders off. TEACHERS NEVER LOSE, they always get paid and they know the mass majority will fail, they will blame everyone but themselves. It is far easier to tell someone to do something and get paid then actually doing it and hoping it works.

        As I said, ofcourse you can make money in IM aside from teaching, but if you want to work SMART, become a teacher in your field you operate in and leave the HARD work to the student.
        This isn't a "rub" man - this is life.

        In my other life I'm a guitar teacher - I've had probably 100 students over the past 7-8 years... They all paid me good money to hear what I have to say because I am an accomplished musician and a respected teacher in my area - are they ALL excellent musicians at this point?

        I wish I could say so, but no of course they're all not. In fact in the long term probably only 10% really stuck with playing guitar... because it takes A LOT of time and and A LOT of work. I can't be there to hold their hand every day... the same is true for almost anything in life that you want to get good at - including marketing.

        So by your logic, just because I put it in the hours, days and years to get to where I'm at and am willing to share my knowledge for a fair price - there's some sort of "rub" happening here?

        Cmon man - do you think before you type?
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  • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
    Honestly, a lot of posters in this thread have just looked at the potential of money making in the IM industry only.

    I sell products too- but then again, this is not my main niche. I make more selling in a number of obscure but more profitable niches outside of WF and the IM industry.

    So viewpoint is this: There is more money to be made in doing IM- rather than teaching IM :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by Suthan M View Post


      So viewpoint is this: There is more money to be made in doing IM- rather than teaching IM :-)
      The failure rate of the "doers" is through the roof, so what do they do when they have failed at there first bought money making scheme? They buy another. Rinse and repeat

      Scorecard

      Teachers 1
      Doers 0
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      • Profile picture of the author DebiJ
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        The failure rate of the "doers" is through the roof, so what do they do when they have failed at there first bought money making scheme? They buy another. Rinse and repeat

        Scorecard

        Teachers 1
        Doers 0
        That's not true either. There's a lot of information I've purchased that hasn't worked for me. But there's not a single one that I haven't learned something from and that's a win for me as a Doer. It also keeps me on a path to continually improve my research skills to make sure I don't get caught at it again.

        Debi J
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  • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching,
    Not sure how that's going to work then.
    Judging by the sig files here,
    there are 10 teachers to every one that needs teaching.
    :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
    I know there is a population of the IM community that makes good money doing their own thing and makes money by providing a valuable product/course that teaches others to do it.

    Saying something like "I would triple my income by not showing ANYONE" shows a lack of knowledge in how IM works. I do agree that it's extremely suspicious when someone claims a huge income (I made $102816162 last month!) and then sells a guide for a few dollars (Only $7!) - it simply doesn't make sense. However, if you can legitimately teach someone how to do what you do and be paid for it, why wouldn't you leverage your knowledge and do this? You would probably be stupid not to, unless you have some secret knowledge and it would hurt your business to share it. :confused:

    Not everyone is out to rip you off. I don't blame you for being cynical, though, because the majority are.
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by Matt Ward View Post

      I know there is a population of the IM community that makes good money doing their own thing and makes money by providing a valuable product/course that teaches others to do it.

      Saying something like "I would triple my income by not showing ANYONE" shows a lack of knowledge in how IM works. I do agree that it's extremely suspicious when someone claims a huge income (I made $102816162 last month!) and then sells a guide for a few dollars (Only $7!) - it simply doesn't make sense. However, if you can legitimately teach someone how to do what you do and be paid for it, why wouldn't you leverage your knowledge and do this? You would probably be stupid not to, unless you have some secret knowledge and it would hurt your business to share it. :confused:

      Not everyone is out to rip you off. I don't blame you for being cynical, though, because the majority are.
      I know full well how this racket works. Look at your sig man. You want to show people how to get search engine traffic? Why would ANY ONE single SMART fella do this and in turn give away a share of the ever so valuable google traffic? Then I click and low and behold are you selling IM products to other would be IM guys? Do you have secret knowledge of google traffic?

      This is too easy
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
        This is definitely coming across as a bitter someone who spent a bunch of money, failed, and then lashes out against everyone else. Just because you can't make any legit money online doesn't mean no one can.
        Signature
        "Keep moving forward."
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        • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
          Originally Posted by Matt Ward View Post

          This is definitely coming across as a bitter someone who spent a bunch of money, failed, and then lashes out against everyone else. Just because you can't make any legit money online doesn't mean no one can.
          Awesome deflection, you are on the correct path. Why are you giving away your secrets and why are you selling all these secrets? Doesnt make sense. I do 600-700k a year in sales, I am a manufacturer, family business. Good times The money is entirely irrelevant, I can GUARANTEE ONE newbie has already put his credit card away. I have succeeded.
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          • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
            Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

            Awesome deflection, you are on the correct path. Why are you giving away your secrets and why are you selling all these secrets? Doesnt make sense. I do 600-700k a year in sales, I am a manufacturer, family business. Good times The money is entirely irrelevant, I can GUARANTEE ONE newbie has already put his credit card away. I have succeeded.
            To be fair, I can understand how it looks to be arguing against you while I have links to sites with affiliate links in them. I'll go through and remove my signature from all of my posts here, because I believe my arguments are legitimate and don't want to detract from them.

            Anyway, I think we've both wasted enough time here. :rolleyes: I have better things to do, and I'm willing to bet that you do, too.
            Signature
            "Keep moving forward."
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            • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
              Originally Posted by Matt Ward View Post

              To be fair, I can understand how it looks to be arguing against you while I have links to sites with affiliate links in them. I'll go through and remove my signature from all of my posts here, because I believe my arguments are legitimate and don't want to detract from them.

              Anyway, I think we've both wasted enough time here. :rolleyes: I have better things to do, and I'm willing to bet that you do, too.
              Why would you remove them, they were ok and non hypocritical until this thread? Make your money. I got plenty of time, darn ups truck is always late
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    • Profile picture of the author Daedalus
      Originally Posted by Matt Ward View Post

      Not everyone is out to rip you off.
      That's true. Unfortunately, at least a half is out to do exactly that. On the other hand, you can spot scam offers miles away in most cases.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    I think the OP is a pot stirring troll who actually
    has no real world experience and no clue what
    he's talking about.

    Don't feed the trolls...
    Signature
    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I think the OP is a pot stirring troll who actually
      has no real world experience and no clue what
      he's talking about.

      Don't feed the trolls...
      Yep you got me. I can do the same. I think your reply is from a guy who makes very little money in this racket. See how that works? People HATE to hear what they so obviously believe in whole heartedly.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        Yep you got me. I can do the same. I think your reply is from a guy who makes very little money in this racket. See how that works? People HATE to hear what they so obviously believe in whole heartedly.
        The difference being that one of us clearly identifies himself,
        has been around the forum a long time and has gained some
        measure of credibility with other forum members... and one of
        us is hiding behind a phony screen name, has been around
        the forum for several hours and has done nothing to gain credibility
        with anyone.

        Oh... and I have NEVER offered any kind of training program to
        anyone at any price so that kinda blows your theory on that point.

        Troll...
        Signature
        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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        • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          The difference being that one of us clearly identifies himself,
          has been around the forum a long time and has gained some
          measure of credibility with other forum members... and one of
          us is hiding behind a phony screen name, has been around
          the forum for several hours and has done nothing to gain credibility
          with anyone.

          Oh... and I have NEVER offered any kind of training program to
          anyone at any price so that kinda blows your theory on that point.

          Troll...
          You are credible because you post on this forum? Define credible please. I am not selling anything, I operate in a far different market than IM. What am I trolling for? Simply put people are quite stubborn and really, really want to believe the package they bought (which is rehashed, reworded free info) is really going to make them 20k in 30 days, and for just the one time low price of 97 dollars. Its simply that simple.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
            Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

            You are credible because you post on this forum? Define credible please. I am not selling anything, I operate in a far different market than IM. What am I trolling for? Simply put people are quite stubborn and really, really want to believe the package they bought (which is rehashed, reworded free info) is really going to make them 20k in 30 days, and for just the one time low price of 97 dollars. Its simply that simple.
            Sorry... done feeding the troll. The people with whom I enjoy
            credibility know how I earned it. You actually know very little
            about this subject but keep on stirring... I'm sure others will
            be willing to feed your need for attention.
            Signature
            If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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            • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
              Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

              Sorry... done feeding the troll. The people with whom I enjoy
              credibility know how I earned it. You actually know very little
              about this subject but keep on stirring... I'm sure others will
              be willing to feed your need for attention.
              Im not sure how you know, I know very little. Thats odd, you may be very intuitive.
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    • Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I think the OP is a pot stirring troll who actually
      has no real world experience and no clue what
      he's talking about.

      Don't feed the trolls...
      And I think he does have a point, and I know for a fact that what he's saying is indeed true for MANY of the so-called "gurus" and "WSO publishers" floating around here...
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  • Profile picture of the author Palusko
    Selling shovels to gold diggers, what else is new? Still, you better make sure the shovels don't break the first time they are put to use, otherwise you may be out of business very soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanzona
    You just have to be discriminating. Buy from someone and see if what they teach works or at least helps you advance in some way. If it flops, don't go with them next time. On WF sometimes I think there's more products than grains of sand on the beach.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    it simply doesn't stand to reason
    Yes it does. You are simply short-sighted and small-minded.

    You think I want to sell you a product for what YOU would pay.

    I am selling it for what EVERYBODY pays.

    You sit there and snort and say "who would sell that for $7?" while 150 people buy it.

    That's not $7. That's over $1k.

    And that's a pretty small launch. Just about anyone could duplicate that result. You don't have to be a big name guru or much of an expert. You just have to be interesting.

    And I am nothing if not interesting.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Yes it does. You are simply short-sighted and small-minded.
      While you may be interesting, your ability to judge is skewed. Yes it does NOT stand to reason that XYZ scam of the week makes the seller 47k last month with fictional testimonials and photoshopped screenshots but EVERYONE can buy my package for 97 dollars. AGAIN, once you factor the DOER failure rate, the end result score is below

      TEACHER 1

      DOER 0
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        While you may be interesting, your ability to judge is skewed. Yes it does NOT stand to reason that XYZ scam of the week makes the seller 47k last month with fictional testimonials and photoshopped screenshots but EVERYONE can buy my package for 97 dollars. AGAIN, once you factor the DOER failure rate, the end result score is below

        TEACHER 1

        DOER 0
        I think anyone who falls for fake income claims and fake testimonials and unfounded ridiculous sales claims are the ones who's ability to judge is skewed. There are a lot of good products and a lot of scams and dreamers who want to get rich without working very much are the ones who fall for those obviously BS sales pitches.
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        • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I think anyone who falls for fake income claims and fake testimonials and unfounded ridiculous sales claims are the ones who's ability to judge is skewed. There are a lot of good products and a lot of scams and dreamers who want to get rich without working very much are the ones who fall for those obviously BS sales pitches.
          You have just summed up a mass majority in the IM niche. What sells? BIG HUGE sales numbers, for the low, low price of 97 dollars.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

            You have just summed up a mass majority in the IM niche. What sells? BIG HUGE sales numbers, for the low, low price of 97 dollars.
            You're looking at it from perhaps someone who is looking for that kind of product, as many do. There are huge amounts of very high quality products that do not make fake income claims and that also do not cost $97. It's actually rare when I pay more than $37 for some excellent products.

            There are plenty of both types of products. You have to stop looking for one to see the other.
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            • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              You're looking at it from perhaps someone who is looking for that kind of product, as many do. There are huge amounts of very high quality products that do not make fake income claims and that also do not cost $97. It's actually rare when I pay more than $37 for some excellent products.

              There are plenty of both types of products. You have to stop looking for one to see the other.
              I am looking at it from the new guys eyes who are OVERWHELMED with the amount of silly claims that are so patently false, Stevie Wonder can see it. How does a new guy with the idea of fame and riches approach this and weed out the junk? I bet the majority say listen to others and I can guarantee the majority of others are an affiliate for the best products correct?

              The other crack up to me is the use of 7 at the end of 95% of products. Who came up with 27-37-47-67-97-167? lol
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

                I am looking at it from the new guys eyes who are OVERWHELMED with the amount of silly claims that are so patently false, Stevie Wonder can see it. How does a new guy with the idea of fame and riches approach this and weed out the junk? I bet the majority say listen to others and I can guarantee the majority of others are an affiliate for the best products correct?

                The other crack up to me is the use of 7 at the end of 95% of products. Who came up with 27-37-47-67-97-167? lol
                You answered your own question. Why would anyone even consider a product with "silly claims that are so patently false"?

                As for the number 7 being used ... have you ever heard of "testing"? Testing prices has resulted in 7 being used. Are you a marketer or just a buyer? Marketers know that testing everything in your sales funnel results in higher conversions.
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                • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  You answered your own question. Why would anyone even consider a product with "silly claims that are so patently false"?

                  As for the number 7 being used ... have you ever heard of "testing"? Testing prices has resulted in 7 being used. Are you a marketer or just a buyer? Marketers know that testing everything in your sales funnel results in higher conversions.
                  The majority of products make these silly claims, and this is what guys are BUYING DAILY. As for testing, its just odd that 7 only works on the internet, not in the retail world.

                  How many affiliates have even tested the products they promote? We all can guess the answer.

                  Scorecard

                  Teachers 1

                  Doers 0
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

                    The majority of products make these silly claims, and this is what guys are BUYING DAILY. As for testing, its just odd that 7 only works on the internet, not in the retail world.

                    How many affiliates have even tested the products they promote? We all can guess the answer.

                    Scorecard

                    Teachers 1

                    Doers 0
                    Well, you're obviously invested in your own false notions so arguing is pointless. Good luck being successful with such an inflexible attitude.
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              • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post


                The other crack up to me is the use of 7 at the end of 95% of products. Who came up with 27-37-47-67-97-167? lol
                You've been doing this since 1999, that's the best part of 13 years and you don't know that. :confused:

                That is very strange. What have you been doing for the last 13 years then? Because with that statement it's very hard for me to believe you've been selling your own stuff and if you have, you've left a fortune on the table by forgeting to do a bit of simple price testing.
                Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author moonzombie
    Interesting points and I have had some similar thoughts about the IM niche.

    My take, is that when someone develops a really successful method, they will of course use it for themselves. Once it starts to cool down a bit, they can earn some more money off of the idea by teaching it to others. I'm generalizing here, this isn't always the case, of course.

    There's going to be great tools and resources that will pay off in spades with hard work, and there's going to be the copycats without much to offer besides rehashing the information they purchased two months ago from someone else. I'm not going to generalize an entire niche, but it does seem like a large chunk of the revenues generated in the IM niche come from telling people how to make money in the IM niche, which is kind of ironic.
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by moonzombie View Post

      I'm not going to generalize an entire niche, but it does seem like a large chunk of the revenues generated in the IM niche come from telling people how to make money in the IM niche, which is kind of ironic.
      Thank You, common sense has come full circle. The angry ones that label me as a troll ironically sell money making ideas to other marketers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        Thank You, common sense has come full circle. The angry ones that label me as a troll ironically sell money making ideas to other marketers.
        I am the one who labeled you as a troll. I am not the least
        bit angry... what a silly notion... nor do I sell money making ideas
        to other marketers.

        Nothing you've posted in the last couple days has changed
        my original assessment. Pot stirring troll who knows little or
        nothing about the subject...

        Not much irony there but you'll just have to live with it.
        Signature
        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by moonzombie View Post

      but it does seem like a large chunk of the revenues generated in the IM niche come from telling people how to make money in the IM niche, which is kind of ironic.
      The clue is in the name how to make money niche, which is why the majority of products in the "how to make money" niche are about how to make money.
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    • Profile picture of the author prajukta77group
      Originally Posted by moonzombie View Post

      Interesting points and I have had some similar thoughts about the IM niche.

      My take, is that when someone develops a really successful method, they will of course use it for themselves. Once it starts to cool down a bit, they can earn some more money off of the idea by teaching it to others. I'm generalizing here, this isn't always the case, of course.

      There's going to be great tools and resources that will pay off in spades with hard work, and there's going to be the copycats without much to offer besides rehashing the information they purchased two months ago from someone else. I'm not going to generalize an entire niche, but it does seem like a large chunk of the revenues generated in the IM niche come from telling people how to make money in the IM niche, which is kind of ironic.
      yes ,guys, teaching is also as valuable as doing. But, now importance is given more on doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    I'd say there are 3 types of people that teach IM. Make no mistake, all of them are doing it because it has the potential to be lucrative.

    1) People that have had outside-MMO success, are passionate about the topic, and want to make more money.

    2) People that tell people they've made money outside of MMO, but most likely haven't. Or it represents a small % of their income. You'll hear these people say "Oh yeah, it's way easier to sell outside of MMO. I just like to help people" (blah, blah, blah).

    3) The people that have no experience outside of MMO.

    Lots of the big name gurus started selling MMO products without any prior experiences. Off the top of my head, I think Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, Keith Wellman, and Russel Brunson.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonMaxwell
    What if you TEACH, what you are doing. For instance, I teach a course on basic internet marketing skills. It teaches people in any niche the four basic things you need to have an internet marketing business.

    These are THE SAME four things I use in my business every day...

    Jason
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by JasonMaxwell View Post

      What if you TEACH, what you are doing. For instance, I teach a course on basic internet marketing skills. It teaches people in any niche the four basic things you need to have an internet marketing business.

      These are THE SAME four things I use in my business every day...

      Jason
      Exception to every rule, but in your description you say "basic" there is NO threat of lost income teaching someone the basics. Its the guys who are selling the products that make them millions of dollars, why would you do that? There is two answers and they are easy to figure out with a touch of common sense.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        Its the guys who are selling the products that make them millions of dollars, why would you do that?
        Same planet, different worlds.

        You're basically sitting under a rock saying "Why are they out there in the open? That's stupid. It's too hot and bright and something could fall on them. They should stay under here where it's cool and dark and safe."

        Meanwhile, they look at you and all the other vermin under the rock, and say "Why don't they ever come out and watch the sunset with us? It's so pretty, and then the stars come out, and there are glowing fireflies and chirping crickets and the sound of spring peepers from the pond."

        But there you are under that rock, not knowing the first thing about what any of those are.
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Same planet, different worlds.

          You're basically sitting under a rock saying "Why are they out there in the open? That's stupid. It's too hot and bright and something could fall on them. They should stay under here where it's cool and dark and safe."

          Meanwhile, they look at you and all the other vermin under the rock, and say "Why don't they ever come out and watch the sunset with us? It's so pretty, and then the stars come out, and there are glowing fireflies and chirping crickets and the sound of spring peepers from the pond."

          But there you are under that rock, not knowing the first thing about what any of those are.
          Kids, this is what drugs and alcohol will do to you over time.

          You called me vermin, clever fella
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

            Kids, this is what drugs and alcohol will do to you over time.
            Yep.

            They'll leave you sitting with your friends, watching the sunset and the fireflies while you listen to the crickets and frogs.

            Signature
            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Rocketguy
        The problem is that the guys making the big bucks all from offline clients wouldn't touch a WSO with a ten foot pole. Why would I waste my time and energy to sell something for $27 when I sign up clients all day long for a min of $1000 per month.
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        • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
          Originally Posted by Rocketguy View Post

          The problem is that the guys making the big bucks all from offline clients wouldn't touch a WSO with a ten foot pole. Why would I waste my time and energy to sell something for $27 when I sign up clients all day long for a min of $1000 per month.
          That depends on your life goals. To somebody who enjoys spending all their time with clients, WSOs may seem like an inferior choice. To somebody who could care less about IM per se and wants to do "other" things, whatever they may be, will generally strive to leverage systems and automation to achieve as much passive income as possible, leaving their time free to do whatever.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
            Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

            At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

            There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

            Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

            Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

            Odd, why would one need to supplement there income when they are selling a proven system that makes boatloads of cash. Cmon, it cant be this easy

            Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

            I agree, it has been beaten down and overrun with scam after scam. It doesnt offend me personally, I just can feel for the poor souls who are continuously lead down the profit path relentlessly.

            Unless its software, there is NOTHING secret or revolutionary, if there was it would NOT be for sale for 50 bucks.
            Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

            Now those "Teachers" are the reason why 99% of people think IM is a scam.
            Basically, you saying ... You Failed at making money online, now feed other people BS, so they can fail ... Are you serious right now?
            YOU BETTER BE MAKING MONEY IN IM BEFORE TELLING ME HOW I SHOULD MAKE MONEY. WHY? Let's see, you don't make any money online, so WTF you going to teach me? Basically, you are teaching other people how to fail. Anyone wants that? No. And let me guess, you probably going to title your product "Make millions online today" right?

            Most people that make money online NOT going to share their method. Not saying all WSO's are bs, some of them are great, but 99% of the times you have to put your own spin to it for it to work.
            Yes! And while we're at it we should burn all the books or at least give them away for free to those who see no value in them. While we've got the guns out let's kill all the driving instructors, trade school instructors, teaches, headmasters and basically anyone who knows how to write the number 7 because as we all know the number seven is evil and anyone who uses it ought to be shot.

            But don't forget about all the lecturers at community college, how dare they not volunteer their time for those who see no value in it? How dare anyone teach anything and ask to be paid? Every teacher needs to be dragged into the office and told that they must teach for free starting right now! How do they think they are anyway?

            But let's get back to the IM niche. Line up all the people wo have helped anyone by selling a "how to" product, all the people who dare to charge anything for their time to help anyone and shoot them all dead right now or better still, let's strip them of all their ill gotten gains and give it to people who refuse to pay for help.

            The education departments around the world MUST be dismantled immediately and all teachers eliminated as evil forces out to corrupt us. I mean HOW DARE anyone charge anything for teaching? That's just outrageous. All teachers should be removed from their post, stripped of all their ill gotten assets and either jailed or be forced to work in a factory and they better not become a forman or manager because they also charge for teaching people stuff.

            All education should be 100% free and no teacher should ever be paid anything. Especially any sort of education that will show people how to make money. That is the most evil of all teachings. How DARE anyone charge even one cent for showing some poor naive student how to make enough money to leave their stinking job. Anyone with a stinking job should stay there and NEVER be allowed to leave! There is no way that learning how to make money is ever worth even one cent.

            The techniques, skills and secrets should remain out of site and out of reach of anyone who wants to learn. These are secrets that should never be shared with anyone ever. Down with teachers! Down with education. Down with freedom and Down with economics!

            No one deserves to learn anything new, every human should be forced to learn everything by themselves in isolation and they should learn it all the hard way. There is clearly no value in paying anyone to learn anything. Sure most people who try to become doctors will kill a few people while they learn but hey it's far better than paying teachers - right? Better than paying those stinking greedy capitalist pig teachers even one cent because they are all useless, have nothing to teach and are clearly worthless.

            Teachers teach
            Helpers help

            It's what they do!

            Many do it for free but they will soon start charging so they need to be capped so that never happens. The last thing we need on this earth is more people stopping to help. You can't force someone to teach just by paying them money. People like to teach, people like to help and if people can make a living teaching and helping then what on earth could possibly ever be wrong with that? In fact what could be more noble than teaching?

            I'm seriously sad for you IF that is how you generally feel. Something very bad has obviously happened in your life but dude...picking on the teachers? Is that the best you can do? Here's let me go and grab a child and maybe you can yell at them until they cry. Hey! There goes a dog, if you're quick you might be able to run after it and kick it.
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            • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
              Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

              Yes! And while we're at it we should burn all the books or at least give them away for free to those who see no value in them. While we've got the guns out let's kill all the driving instructors, trade school instructors, teaches, headmasters and basically anyone who knows how to write the number 7 because as we all know the number seven is evil and anyone who uses it ought to be shot.

              But don't forget about all the lecturers at community college, how dare they not volunteer their time for those who see no value in it? How dare anyone teach anything and ask to be paid? Every teacher needs to be dragged into the office and told that they must teach for free starting right now! How do they think they are anyway?

              But let's get back to the IM niche. Line up all the people wo have helped anyone by selling a "how to" product, all the people who dare to charge anything for their time to help anyone and shoot them all dead right now or better still, let's strip them of all their ill gotten gains and give it to people who refuse to pay for help.

              The education departments around the world MUST be dismantled immediately and all teachers eliminated as evil forces out to corrupt us. I mean HOW DARE anyone charge anything for teaching? That's just outrageous. All teachers should be removed from their post, stripped of all their ill gotten assets and either jailed or be forced to work in a factory and they better not become a forman or manager because they also charge for teaching people stuff.

              All education should be 100% free and no teacher should ever be paid anything. Especially any sort of education that will show people how to make money. That is the most evil of all teachings. How DARE anyone charge even one cent for showing some poor naive student how to make enough money to leave their stinking job. Anyone with a stinking job should stay there and NEVER be allowed to leave! There is no way that learning how to make money is ever worth even one cent.

              The techniques, skills and secrets should remain out of site and out of reach of anyone who wants to learn. These are secrets that should never be shared with anyone ever. Down with teachers! Down with education. Down with freedom and Down with economics!

              No one deserves to learn anything new, every human should be forced to learn everything by themselves in isolation and they should learn it all the hard way. There is clearly no value in paying anyone to learn anything. Sure most people who try to become doctors will kill a few people while they learn but hey it's far better than paying teachers - right? Better than paying those stinking greedy capitalist pig teachers even one cent because they are all useless, have nothing to teach and are clearly worthless.

              Teachers teach
              Helpers help

              It's what they do!

              Many do it for free but they will soon start charging so they need to be capped so that never happens. The last thing we need on this earth is more people stopping to help. You can't force someone to teach just by paying them money. People like to teach, people like to help and if people can make a living teaching and helping then what on earth could possibly ever be wrong with that? In fact what could be more noble than teaching?

              I'm seriously sad for you IF that is how you generally feel. Something very bad has obviously happened in your life but dude...picking on the teachers? Is that the best you can do? Here's let me go and grab a child and maybe you can yell at them until they cry. Hey! There goes a dog, if you're quick you might be able to run after it and kick it.
              Where is the STANDING OVATION button?! This reply says it all! The little "thanks" button just isn't enough. Thank you!
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      • Profile picture of the author Ian Jackson
        Woodsy1, what do you want from this forum? Why did you join? Why not go somewhere where you can operate in a more positive frame of mind? - somewhere where you may get some benefit
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      • Profile picture of the author jimmel196
        I think the problem is that there are so many people out there who dream of having and making money that they will believe anything that they are told. It's unfortunate but there are plenty of people, even her on WF, that will try to capitalize on someones lack of knowledge and dreams of success. I am relatively new to IM and thank God I don't depend on it for my income, so that doesn't cloud my judgement and common sense when making decisions. I would advise that you need to keep your money in your pocket until you have a better understanding before buying products from, "so called" teachers. It amazes me of the praises by purchasers of items of how great the product is but nobody seems to ever say that they are actually making any money from it. Good luck with the teaching but I hope your not planning on just promoting more crap because there is definitely no shortage of that.

        I have to add a side note here with regards to people offering good information mere on the WF: I was having problems with my Eza articles being improperly re-published. Alexa Smith directed me to information on
        sbucciarels' (Suzanne's) site. She offered some great information on her site regarding filing a DMCA Takedown notice which I successfully used to have the articles removed. Now that's teaching! Thanks Suzanne!
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        • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
          Originally Posted by jimmel196 View Post

          I think the problem is that there are so many people out there who dream of having and making money that they will believe anything that they are told.

          It's unfortunate but there are plenty of people, even her on WF, that will try to capitalize on someones lack of knowledge and dreams of success. I am relatively new to IM and thank God I don't depend on it for my income, so that doesn't cloud my judgement and common sense when making decisions.

          I would advise that you need to keep your money in your pocket until you have a better understanding before buying products from, "so called" teachers. It amazes me of the praises by purchasers of items of how great the product is but nobody seems to ever say that they are actually making any money from it. Good luck with the teaching but I hope your not planning on just promoting more crap because there is definitely no shortage of that.
          Wow, more generalisations, cliches, guesses and unthinking re-quotes and all from someone who is "relatively new". Where do you come up with these "facts"?

          1) "plenty of people on here capitalizing on the lack of knowledge and dreams of people" - interesting. How is that different from say...every university on the planet?

          2) "so called" teachers? If someone teaches something they are a teacher. Should we call teachers by another name? Did you mother ever teach you anything? At that moment was she your teacher or did you say to her "stop talking Mum, you're NOT my TEACHER!"

          3) "You would advise"...mmm

          4) "Nobody ever says if they are actually making money"...interesting. What? Ever? In all the WSOs ever created? Or are you taking a sample of .0001% being the ones you bought? You have bought some I hope. If so, are we talking about only the ones you bought or is there a scientific study somewhere that no one is aware of that offers a breakdown of how many people buy WSOs, do everything they are told to do, put in a decent effort, make some money (more than the WSO cost in order to make a decent percentage return) and then NOT come back to tell about it? If so, I would love to see it so I can quite authortatively from it as my source as well because I see lots of people posting in threads and do you think that maybe they might be making money but NOT posting back their exact financial returns and a full report of what they did to get there.

          I don't know you, for all I know you could be a great person but please...give me a break. Did you just make this stuff up as you were typing or did you glance at the celing while typing it or what...because that is the exact opposite of what I and many others have discovered. Where did you get your facts from please? I'd like to know.

          The second part of your post was at least right (about Suzanne) but I've got to ask; Did Suzanne "teach" you something? I bet she did. She taught you, you learned - she was your teacher. So why all the hate on the imaginary evil teacher brigade? You can't possibly have anything against learning or teaching or charging? She just proved you wrong. Whether she charged or not the fact was that she tauught you and she's here on the WF and you said in your last paragraph...

          "...a side note here with regards to people offering good information here on the WF."
          So? I'm confused as to your view and why you would say those things to make this place look so bad when you have no way of knowing if any of it is true or based in any fact at all - which it clearly isn't, in fact by your own admission your own experience would indicate the opposite is true.

          Just curious.
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      • Profile picture of the author Don Luis
        Banned
        Not everybody knows how to teach or wants to teach other people. I myself don't think about teaching other people, even if I become successful in the future. Yes, I can give advice every now and then in forums such as this, but to become a so-called "guru" teaching people to make money online, I don't think that's my cup of tea.

        It's not that I'm selfish or self-centered, I'm not just comfortable putting myself in a pedestal and being called a "guru." I want to be in the same level with other people, being friends with them. Besides, being a teacher entails a lot of time, dedication, effort, patience, etc. I'm also not a good speaker even though I write well. I am also a bit shy and aloof.

        Lots of people make money DOING, lots of people make money TEACHING, and lots of people make money DOING and TEACHING. It's a big wide Internet world and there's lots of moneymaking opportunities out there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Meharis
        Who in the world are you?
        Judging for what you "Did Show" over here, you're just plain NO One. Yes no one.
        In your way out, you may pick up your toys and go home.
        Don't forget telling mom what the bad guys at the forum did to you...
        Now, be careful. She may ask you: Did you lie to them?
        Don't worry what we may be thinking and knowing about your answer. We wont tell her...

        Meharis
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      • Profile picture of the author jameswebberid
        all are fake they are not giving tips but only makes money and promote ourself by this way...giving solutions or tips not means to helping others these are only marketing their own..not 100% are fake but we generally talk about it then mostly are fake...
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        • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
          Originally Posted by jameswebberid View Post

          all are fake they are not giving tips but only makes money and promote ourself by this way...giving solutions or tips not means to helping others these are only marketing their own..not 100% are fake but we generally talk about it then mostly are fake...
          Wow, thanks for the warning!
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          Originally Posted by jameswebberid View Post

          all are fake they are not giving tips but only makes money and promote ourself by this way...giving solutions or tips not means to helping others these are only marketing their own..not 100% are fake but we generally talk about it then mostly are fake...
          Awesome advice...


          You're not an article writer by any chance?
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      • Profile picture of the author magiclouie
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        Exception to every rule, but in your description you say "basic" there is NO threat of lost income teaching someone the basics. Its the guys who are selling the products that make them millions of dollars, why would you do that? There is two answers and they are easy to figure out with a touch of common sense.
        So I guess, you must be a teacher now.

        Concerning this, "Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.", will you be happy to teach someone whom you already know that he/she will fail? How could you continue making money as a teacher if you're students are not getting any success?

        How can you prove that the one who doesn't fail is the TEACHER? The thing is, one can't embrace success without any failure.

        .., just my 2 cents!

        P.S. Calm down, mate!
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      • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
        I totally agree - teaching is wealth, but when it comes to the make money online niche I'm sick of it. There are way too many people with no experience who are trying to teach others how to make a living online.

        The process often times goes something like this...

        Buy my book and I'll show you how to make $30,000 a month without any effort!

        **person buys book, opens it up, reads it**

        Step 1: First, write a book that's called "how to make $30,000 a month without any effort!"

        Step 2: fill the book with cliche, regurgitated information that you see everywhere.

        Step 3: Throw up a sales page that offers the headline "How to make $30,000 a month without any effort!"

        I'm all for buying something to learn how someone JUST NOW made money off of you through that purchase, but if it's nothing new - then it's a rip off.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Williams
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post


    There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars.

    You're probably right. But I wonder how a successful marketer who wants to share their knowledge with other people goes about it without offending you?

    Sell at any of the price points mentioned above, and the "expert" must be a fake.

    Sell a $5,000-$10,000 seminar and the expert is "fly-by-night" & "greedy".

    Give it away for free and no one will take it seriously and they'll let it collect dust on their hard drive.

    Offer 1 on 1 coaching and it's just a "publicity stunt".

    No offense, but I can see why some stay far away from the IM niche...
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by Jeff Williams View Post

      You're probably right. But I wonder how a successful marketer who wants to share their knowledge with other people goes about it without offending you?

      Sell at any of the price points mentioned above, and the "expert" must be a fake.

      Sell a $5,000-$10,000 seminar and the expert is "fly-by-night" & "greedy".

      Give it away for free and no one will take it seriously and they'll let it collect dust on their hard drive.

      Offer 1 on 1 coaching and it's just a "publicity stunt".

      No offense, but I can see why some stay far away from the IM niche...
      I agree, it has been beaten down and overrun with scam after scam. It doesnt offend me personally, I just can feel for the poor souls who are continuously lead down the profit path relentlessly.

      Unless its software, there is NOTHING secret or revolutionary, if there was it would NOT be for sale for 50 bucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
    Now those "Teachers" are the reason why 99% of people think IM is a scam.
    Basically, you saying ... You Failed at making money online, now feed other people BS, so they can fail ... Are you serious right now?
    YOU BETTER BE MAKING MONEY IN IM BEFORE TELLING ME HOW I SHOULD MAKE MONEY. WHY? Let's see, you don't make any money online, so WTF you going to teach me? Basically, you are teaching other people how to fail. Anyone wants that? No. And let me guess, you probably going to title your product "Make millions online today" right?

    Most people that make money online NOT going to share their method. Not saying all WSO's are bs, some of them are great, but 99% of the times you have to put your own spin to it for it to work.
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    • Profile picture of the author woodsy1
      Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

      Now those "Teachers" are the reason why 99% of people think IM is a scam.
      Basically, you saying ... You Failed at making money online, now feed other people BS, so they can fail ... Are you serious right now?
      YOU BETTER BE MAKING MONEY IN IM BEFORE TELLING ME HOW I SHOULD MAKE MONEY. WHY? Let's see, you don't make any money online, so WTF you going to teach me? Basically, you are teaching other people how to fail. Anyone wants that? No. And let me guess, you probably going to title your product "Make millions online today" right?

      Most people that make money online NOT going to share their method. Not saying all WSO's are bs, some of them are great, but 99% of the times you have to put your own spin to it for it to work.
      My business generates 100% of its revenue online. I do zero paid advertising, I own a forum that generates revenue for my business and am foraying into more of a teaching role instead of the doing role. I have worked hard built the business from 0 to 600-700k a year gross sales beginning in 2006 becoming incorporated, now its best to work smart. Sorry I have ZERO get rich today schemes on the burner.

      Folks have yet to come up with a valid reason why all these killer money making strategies are being sold for pennies? The amount of naive people in this sector of business is bewildering. You can see the buzzards circling.
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      • Profile picture of the author DebiJ
        Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

        My business generates 100% of its revenue online. I do zero paid advertising, I own a forum that generates revenue for my business and am foraying into more of a teaching role instead of the doing role. I have worked hard built the business from 0 to 600-700k a year gross sales beginning in 2006 becoming incorporated, now its best to work smart. Sorry I have ZERO get rich today schemes on the burner.

        Folks have yet to come up with a valid reason why all these killer money making strategies are being sold for pennies? The amount of naive people in this sector of business is bewildering. You can see the buzzards circling.
        And you're honestly expecting people on this forum to simply take you for your word on how successful you are based on what? All 35 of your posts?

        Many people sell information for very little because they (believe it or not) actually want to assist others in getting where they are. They know what it's like to struggle to understand what works online and what doesn't and they know they can keep others from going thru the same learning curve. Are there a lot more who sell the crap you're talking about? Absolutely. Because there are more people NOT willing to work for it than those who are.

        Online, I'm still learning. Offline in Network Marketing, I left a very lucrative career. But as a single mom with no entrepreneurial background or job or knowledge of that field, I never forgot where I came from or what it took for me to get to where I was. So I trained on company calls, one-on-one coaching, from stage at events, and everywhere else I could to people who were willing to do the work (and THAT'S the key that typically gets people wanting to do what you're talking about...they aren't willing to work), to show them how they could change their lives, work from home, travel the world, and take their families with them.

        Debi J
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        • Originally Posted by DebiJ View Post

          Many people sell information for very little because they (believe it or not) actually want to assist others in getting where they are.
          Oh God... PLEASE don't tell me you actually believe this...

          If you want to help newbies, you give the info for free. If you charge something cheap like $7 or so, you're obviously setting up a front-end product within a deeper sales funnel.

          Please, don't tell me you ACTUALLY believe there are people selling stuff cheap because their main goal is to help others instead of making some money for themselves?
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

            If you want to help newbies, you give the info for free.
            People eat their money.

            You see three different courses on the same thing.

            One is free. One costs $20. One costs $100.

            Which one is probably better?

            Well, obviously, it's the $100 one.

            But let's say you decide you don't want to spend $100.

            So you buy the $20 one.

            You're going to take the free one, too, right?

            Now you go home with your free course and your $20 course.

            Which one are you going to use first?

            Why, the $20 one, of course. Duh.

            If the $20 one doesn't work, are you going to try the free one?

            Of course not. The $20 one was better, and it doesn't work. The free one will be even worse than the $20 one. You have to buy the $100 one if you want better results.

            Feel free to tell me how smart YOU are, but if you think the newbie out buying courses is smarter than this, you are not very smart at all.

            We see this complaint over and over again in the main forum, and people keep saying "all this information is available for free." Which is completely true.

            But if it has no cost, it must not have any value.

            You have to charge for the training. If you don't, people won't use it.
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          • Profile picture of the author DebiJ
            Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

            Oh God... PLEASE don't tell me you actually believe this...

            If you want to help newbies, you give the info for free. If you charge something cheap like $7 or so, you're obviously setting up a front-end product within a deeper sales funnel.

            Please, don't tell me you ACTUALLY believe there are people selling stuff cheap because their main goal is to help others instead of making some money for themselves?
            I not only believe it, I've experienced it...AND I intend to DO it!! Not everyone is a liar, cheater, or scam artist. Is there a lot of them on the internet? You bet your ass there are...met many in Network marketing as well. That doesn't mean they all are. It means you have to research and pay attention. Sounds like you may not have found any good ones yet. If that's the case, your choice is to stop looking or figure it out all on your own. I don't have time for that.
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  • Profile picture of the author networkersmagnet
    what you have learned (sorry)
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan92
    There can be no valid generalization of people in this market. Clearly there is a big discrepancy between the legitimate products and the less than legitimate ones, but the IM niche is by no means the only way to earn money. I don't believe there is any particular reason to only focus on this market when there are many other good ones, although some people might if they really are selling poor stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
    There is an old saying that many people throw around that says "You make more money selling picks and shovels than you do mining for gold..."

    It is alluding to the fact that Levi Strauss got rich selling clothing and tools to the miners in the Gold Rush of 1849...

    While that was true for Levi... And has been true for many others... I would say that the story might have been quite different if there were thousands of people trying to sell the miners jeans, picks and shovels.

    These days it seems like everyone wants to be a teacher or a guru and put out a quick course or whatever and make it rich. I know for a fact that the people who are really making it big online are the ones you never heard of because they have found a little gold mine somewhere and they are quietly extracting all the gold from it.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    I know - it's such a scam for someone to TEACH online marketing, and then get rich by selling that product VIA ONLINE MARKETING!!

    sarcasm aside - do you not see how this is different then selling "how to" products regarding trading/forex/etc, real estate investing, etc?? You honestly see a disconnect when a successfull info-product marketer teaches others how to successfully sell info products?

    Sorry, but in my opinion nothing is more genuine then a marketer teaching marketing..

    now - I DO find it funny when someone luanches the latest "shiney object" (marketing via social media, etc), yet they launch it via good old email lists
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    I heard a story about a guy who runs a sport-related blog in New Zealand where he posts about NZ sports. He has 10K+ visitors per day, and has turned his little blog into his full time business.

    Consider how many people there are using the web for more mainstream topics. Then consider just how many sites there are catering to those mainstream topics as well as the spin-off niches. The majority of those spin-off sub-niches are likely considerably larger than the MMO niche.

    Of course, trolls don't want to look beyond their own argument.
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  • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
    The money is in the doing AND the teaching... CORRECTLY.

    Anybody can do and anybody can teach how to do but can "anybody" do as the master does and teach as the master teaches?

    Strive to know exactly what you're doing, how you're doing it and why it's done that way at every single step of the process. It'll be daunting. Embrace this.

    What that translates to in terms of your daily approach to IM is REFUSING to give in to laziness when you don't know why something is done how it's done. It means PUSHING yourself to get the real scoop, even if it means ignoring what's popular (often wrong) and going to the primary source, THINKING long and hard (huh, huh) and drawing your own conclusions.

    The dude (or chick) who understands methods but doesn't understand principles will always be at the mercy of the principle-oriented thinker.
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night


    ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
    Very interesting discussion. this thought also struck to me sometime, that there is more money in teaching. But, i do not know. Because, those who know, they dont yell, they quietly do their work.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by ankur sharma View Post

      Very interesting discussion. this thought also struck to me sometime, that there is more money in teaching. But, i do not know. Because, those who know, they dont yell, they quietly do their work.
      I did a quick look over at the top 400 richest business people in the world and 99.9% of them did it by having their own products or services, not by teaching.

      Now, if you're only referring to the MMO niche, it's actually impossible to tell for several reasons:

      * Unlike the pervasive myth that's out there, a lot of people who are in the MMO market are also in other niches. Some start in the MMO market first and then go into other niches. Some start in non-MMO niches and then branch out to the Make Money Online market (Eben Pagan is a good example of this).

      * There are many IMers who also do network marketing for an extra income stream because they know how use the Internet to leverage their leads and retail their products. It's seldom brought up in this forum because it's a bit of a taboo subject among some IMers.

      * Don't forget CPA marketers who have made an enormous amount of wealth in just the past 2-3 years alone. They don't teach (rarely), they don't make products, and the CPA networks are just getting bigger. Some of the smaller networks will routinely ask some of the higher volume affiliates to "stop the traffic!".

      * Lastly, the overwhelming number of Internet Marketers are people you have never heard of simply because:

      a. They don't market to the MMO market (and they generally like their privacy).

      b. They don't have a big company like Google, Facebook, etc. so they're not in the news.

      Yet these IMers are making it big because they're out there doing it. Just thought I would throw that out there.

      I strongly recommend anyone who is just getting started in IM to get a one year subscription to Entrepreneur Magazine. You'll see a ton of real life people making money in so many different ways it'll make your head spin. Talk about getting niche ideas or even business ideas; it's a great publication. Sheesh, even if you're an IM veteran it's still a sick-a$$ publication.

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
    Dear Woodsy1,

    If your purpose of establishing that account was to make friends, it appears you are off to a stellar start. Congratulations.

    MDF
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  • Profile picture of the author SarahSalah
    You're right. There the money comes. Money never comes from BUYING!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Rocketguy View Post

      ...Why would I waste my time and energy to sell something for $27 when I sign up clients all day long for a min of $1000 per month.
      Because you might sell 1,000 (per day, week or even month) and make $27,000.

      Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

      ...what are you, the savior to all the newbies?
      Classic.

      Originally Posted by SarahSalah View Post

      You're right. There the money comes. Money never comes from BUYING!!
      I'm not sure what you mean by this. Care to elaborate?
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      • Profile picture of the author JettH
        Originally Posted by Rocketguy View Post

        Why would I waste my time and energy to sell something for $27 when I sign up clients all day long for a min of $1000 per month.
        Why? Because it is a helluva lot easier to sell 37 copies of a $27 product (if you know what you are doing) than it is to sign up a $1000 client (if you know what you are doing).

        You would only bother teaching stuff if the money you make takes less effort than actually doing the thing you teach yourself - which invariably it does.

        Unless of course you are making so much money on autopilot that you sell stuff on here to relieve the boredom
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      • Profile picture of the author RoadBandit
        I was just thinking about this today. There is good reason why people teach over doing or consult instead of create....It is so much easier.

        There is easy money in teaching. Information is valuable.

        Learn and Earn. Whether you take action in the knowledge you know or you take action in teaching your knowledge, there is money in knowledge but only if you take action.

        Never stop learning, Never stop doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author f5mtadas
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    Where is the money? Its in Teaching NOT Doing
    The answer is very simple: the money is in value, not in imitation.
    Many those gurus just imitate and they makes money from dummies and poor people. They really just a imitator, not inovator. They dont understand the business process at all, they produce all as quick fix and that is how they make money
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  • Profile picture of the author itsmeantor
    Banned
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

    There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

    I don't completely agree with this. Yes, there are many e-books for money making formulas with misleading sales pages. But there are also many internet marketing e-books and teaching sites that changed life of countless people.

    Those are the people who helped me and others with valuable information. Just look around in the forum, you will find many stories.

    Sorry to say, But I can see you are not an internet marketing guru. A marketing guru will do research first before blaming all the people in the internet marketing industry. No, I am not involved in IM industry. I am a designer and all of my inspiration came from this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    This thread is a waste of time and space.. lol

    All you are doing is helping woodsy1 raise his post count while he waits for the late UPS guy.

    It sounds like we can all learn from woodsy1 and he should create a WSO teaching his 600k secrets.
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    • Profile picture of the author f5mtadas
      Originally Posted by Dr Dan View Post

      This thread is a waste of time and space.. lol

      All you are doing is helping woodsy1 raise his post count while he waits for the late UPS guy.

      It sounds like we can all learn from woodsy1 and he should create a WSO teaching his 600k secrets.
      I agree. It is same many years old question
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        What a load of horse sh*t. I have met some ignorant people in my day but
        you take the cake.

        Normally I would reply with one of my novel length posts (I can see everybody
        shaking their heads saying "God Wags, don't do it") but you're not worth more
        than a minute of my time.

        I could poke so many holes in your argument that it would make you look like
        Swiss cheese. But what would be the point?

        Your mind is cemented in hard concrete and covered with lead shielding to
        keep out the world's contaminates.

        So go live in your closed minded little shell of a world.

        My minute is up. After that I'd have to charge you.
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      • Profile picture of the author RyanJohnson
        As sellers, of course they would "wish" all the scam artists would be banned from the internet... those are the one that give REAL sellers/teachers a bad name.

        As buyers, they would wish the same thing, obviously, as to not HAVE to spend a little energy researching a product/teacher.

        But the fact is... if you spend just little bit of time researching the product/teacher that you are buying, common sense work in your favor. Then if you decided to "try" what might be a "shady" product... you'd know it going in... maybe it was new with little review, maybe it's a crappy product... move on.

        I can tell you that if it were not for courses/teachers/products... I could probably still made it to where I am today, but it would have taken much longer. Have I bought my fair share of crappy stuff? yes. Have I bought a lot of good stuff/course? absolutely. Do your own homework, there are good products/courses/teachers out there.... just gotta use that little noggin of yours
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  • Profile picture of the author Arthur Barn
    Every internet marketing have their own way on how be successful and profit great income. It their choice whether they buy those things to generate income or to their way to learn and earn. It is still us the one to decide which way to choose.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    This would have to be the most entertaining threads all week.

    The OP has hit a raw nerve... and like it or not he makes a valid point. Yet many seem to play the man and not the issue.

    Of course the gurus make more money teaching. What's the big deal?

    And yes, I also ask my self the same question... if your product shows me how to make $1000 in 3 hours, why are you selling it for $7?

    Why not spend 30 hours a week and make $10k lazy?

    Look at all thr big players and they all have a common string... they take what they have done and make millions teaching others how to do the same.

    Wanna get really filthy rich? Do the same. You'd be crazy not to.

    Carry on whilst I make some popcorn and come back for more action.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      And yes, I also ask my self the same question... if your product shows me how to make $1000 in 3 hours, why are you selling it for $7?

      Why not spend 30 hours a week and make $10k lazy?
      Your making the same mistake the tosser who started this thread made in thinking the two things are mutually opposite and not part of the same strategy

      The how to do it part of the strategy is mearly the cherry on the top not the whole cake
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      • Profile picture of the author alex.jeffreys
        I started making money online back around the time of going to Robert Puddy seminar in the UK late 2006

        I started making good money online for around a year and keep posting on my blog about my progress ...

        ... and there was a stage where so many people were asking me to teach them that i made the transition.

        that transition took my 6 figure business to a 7 figure business.

        Roberts seminar was the second seminar i had ever attended

        the first was early 2006 and the ONE thing i learned at that seminar was

        if you can make money you can make money

        if you can teach people how to make money you can make ten times the money ----> by Tim Knox.

        these days we do BOTH and also doing other things outside the niche now

        just my 0.2

        Alex Jeffreys
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Robert...

        Like I said, why not do it?

        Mate, let's think of exclusivity and value...

        What is a goose that can lay the golden egg really worth?

        If you have the goose, then you'd charge a mozza for it. That is no ordinary goose.

        I am not denying that it's the cherry on the top. People I have worked for make more money from the stage than the system they teach. That's the way the industry is.

        And given that many who sell these products tend to disappear as quickly as they surface, the OP makes a valid point.

        It is what it is.



        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        Your making the same mistake the tosser who started this thread made in thinking the two things are mutually opposite and not part of the same strategy

        The how to do it part of the strategy is mearly the cherry on the top not the whole cake
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      This would have to be the most entertaining threads all week.

      The OP has hit a raw nerve... and like it or not he makes a valid point. Yet many seem to play the man and not the issue.

      Of course the gurus make more money teaching. What's the big deal?

      And yes, I also ask my self the same question... if your product shows me how to make $1000 in 3 hours, why are you selling it for $7?

      Why not spend 30 hours a week and make $10k lazy?

      Look at all thr big players and they all have a common string... they take what they have done and make millions teaching others how to do the same.

      Wanna get really filthy rich? Do the same. You'd be crazy not to.

      Carry on whilst I make some popcorn and come back for more action.
      You, sir, don't know any more about the subject than the OP.

      Why would someone who knows how to make $1000 in 3 hours
      sell you the info for $7? Are you seriously wanting us to consider
      you to be a professional marketer and you don't know the answer
      to that question?

      How would you like to get paid for building a list of responsive buyers?

      That's a clue...
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      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Wow... is that right?

        You must be psychic bro. I am impressed.

        Maybe you should check my threads before making wild assumptions?

        Especially the one about using WSO's to build a list of qualified customers.

        What's that? You haven't?

        Didn't think so.

        Back in your box, sunshine.


        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        You, sir, don't know any more about the subject than the OP.

        Why would someone who knows how to make $1000 in 3 hours
        sell you the info for $7? Are you seriously wanting us to consider
        you to be a professional marketer and you don't know the answer
        to that question?

        How would you like to get paid for building a list of responsive buyers?

        That's a clue...
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

          Wow... is that right?

          You must be psychic bro. I am impressed.

          Maybe you should check my threads before making wild assumptions?

          Especially the one about using WSO's to build a list of qualified customers.

          What's that? You haven't?

          Didn't think so.

          Back in your box, sunshine.
          I'm not the one who asked the silly question, Sunshine...
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          If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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          • Profile picture of the author sal64
            Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

            I'm not the one who asked the silly question, Sunshine...
            lol... please pull up your pants, mate. The sunshine is blinding me.

            Do you do anything else on here apart from insult and bully people you don't agree with?
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    This would have to be the most entertaining threads all week.

    The OP has hit a raw nerve... and like it or not he makes a valid point. Yet many seem to play the man and not the issue.

    Of course the gurus make more money teaching. What's the big deal?

    And yes, I also ask my self the same question... if your product shows me how to make $1000 in 3 hours, why are you selling it for $7?

    Why not spend 30 hours a week and make $10k lazy?

    Look at all thr big players and they all have a common string... they take what they have done and make millions teaching others how to do the same.

    Wanna get really filthy rich? Do the same. You'd be crazy not to.

    Carry on whilst I make some popcorn and come back for more action.
    Signature
    Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
    You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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    • Profile picture of the author JB
      The OP may be trolling but I agree with a lot of what he said. The only stuff I ever look at relating to IM has been straight forward 'how to' manuals that make no reference to earnings etc. Eg, 'how to set up an e-commerce site' or 'how to configure wordpress' etc. The whole idea of making money from teaching other people how to make money, without ever having done it yourself is ridiculous to me.

      Somebody mentioned above that this is narrow minded viewpoint because teachers in schools and universities do the same. This is a false analogy, what teachers in schools and universities teach are concrete theories that have been proven to be fact. In the case of university for example course material is based on peer reviewed material empirical data - you can accept it as fact because it has been scientifically proven. The problem with IM is there is no quality control and no benchmark to work from. Factual information backed up by data and metrics exists but you will rarely see it in discussion forums - that kind of stuff is being conducted by universities and is funded by big companies.

      I bought a WSO once because it contained some specific information I was looking for relating to ecommerce. The author claimed to be making excess of 5 figures per month from a single site alone and had as many as 10. However the number of ecourses and 'secret strategies' he was also selling made me wonder why he was bothering to spend what must be a very considerable amount of time on developing cheap IM ebooks when he had such a thriving ecommerce business going. I subsequently found all of the information that was in the product I paid for in a single free ebook. Disappointed but looking back now not really surprised at all.

      Not everyone is a scammer but if someone is selling a product that promises huge income by becoming their competitor then it's probably bogus.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    Napoleon Hill was broke when he wrote "Think and Grow Rich".

    He studied successful people and published his findings.

    It's still a best seller and still as valuable today as it was in 1937, yet he was not wealthy when he wrote it.
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  • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    Re: Where is the money? Its in Teaching NOT Doing

    Are we talking about college basketball?

    Because if so, I agree. Those coaches make millions each year and the players get nothing....
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    I have spent 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars on many courses over the past several years. I bought these not because I was expecting them to get me rich but to fast track me and teach me Internet Marketing strategies. I have no problem paying for knowledge. I think the problem with some people learning Internet Marketing...is that they expect everything including training to be free. You can go this route...but your learning curve and time to reach success will be much longer. IMO....




    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

    There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want a teacher that can't do what they are teaching.

    Sure, there is an adage that says "those that can't do, teach" but it's not the truth - at least at higher levels. You ever seen a professor that can't do the research or the field work in their subject? A math teacher that can't do math? A geologist who can't tell in the field where certain minerals might exist? An art professor that can't paint?

    Come on, that adage was made by people who worked hard for a living and were jealous of people who had jobs that seemed cush and prestigious - and you have picked it up and run with it as a truth.

    Frankly - I would never want to listen to anyone in any field that wasn't successful in the field already. It would be like getting financial advice from someone who lives in a house trailer and has 3 dead cars in the yard.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingChad
    I don't think everyone is evil and out there to "pull a fast one" by selling a product.

    If you think about it, they are addressing a need that customers have. People ARE buying these because they WANT to know more about the topic. This is what we're taught to do as Internet marketers in multiple niches. Just because we are a part of the Internet marketing community doesn't make it any less of a niche.

    These courses that "teach" us are a need for a lot of people. What's the difference if you are teaching Internet marketing or how to play guitar or underwater basket weaving? In all cases you are still providing value to people that want it.

    I don't think it's fair to say these teachers are scheming you. They are essentially teaching you how the sell to a niche. It just so happens that most of these people are familiar with how to market so it makes sense they'd be good at teaching it.

    That's not to say there aren't those out there who are scheming the system but I feel that often times they are the ones who give the rest of the community a bad name.

    If you think that the only way people are making money online is by teaching others about Internet marketing then by all means, go for it. That just leaves more room in the millions of other niches for the rest of us!
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  • Profile picture of the author billyski
    I've been doing IM since the very begining of the internet. These so called teachers are con artists. I've looked at many of their programs and I know it won't work. You can make some good money if you know how to do SEO, social media, etc but it's not easy like these IM millionaire programs make it out to be.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingChad
    Just something else I wanted to add...

    Sales pages are meant to...sell. So they sound too good to be true. Internet marketing is simple....not easy, but simple. The concepts aren't hard to understand and master but it takes work to apply them and that's what most people forget.

    Here's a great example of a similar situation. You know those websites where you can "get a FREE TV if you just put in your email address" or "FREE iPhone 4 testing."

    Scams right?

    Well in college I researched a number of these sites. Found one. Spent time doing about 12 offers that you have to do which amounted to about $300 spent out of my pocket. But I got a 52" HDTV for "Free" which would have cost me about $2000 if I bought it in the store. Most people would say that those people are scammers, they aren't scammers...they just are running a business model where most people don't take the time to follow through and do everything they need to.

    Supply and demand...simply business. There is a demand for these IM teaching programs so it's going to attract suppliers. But to generalize and say that all teachers are just a majority of their money by teaching is neglecting that they might be good businessmen/women and see an opportunity they can fill and profit from.

    Just my $.02
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    I agree that many of those who make it big offer advice/eBooks on how it's done, it says a great deal of time to getting to where they want to be without the man hours
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    • Profile picture of the author jimmel196
      Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

      Wow, more generalisations, cliches, guesses and unthinking re-quotes and all from someone who is "relatively new". Where do you come up with these "facts"?

      If you took the time to read my response you would not be implying that I am making a generalization about all WSO's.

      1) "plenty of people on here capitalizing on the lack of knowledge and dreams of people" - interesting. How is that different from say...every university on the planet?

      When I went to college I paid for instruction, which I thoroughly received. I didn't get halfway through the semester in a particular course and suddenly find out that you are only being given bits and pieces of the information of the course. And I certainly didn't get up sold. mmm? Did you actually go to college or are you just making generalizations, cliches, guesses and unthinking re-quotes?

      2) "so called" teachers? If someone teaches something they are a teacher. Should we call teachers by another name? Did you mother ever teach you anything? At that moment was she your teacher or did you say to her "stop talking Mum, you're NOT my TEACHER!"

      My mother taught me because she loved me and cared for me, not because I was paying her.

      3) "You would advise"...mmm

      Judging by the whopping 4 months that you have been on the WF I guess neither of us have the right to be making our own personal comments here.

      4) "Nobody ever says if they are actually making money"...interesting. What? Ever? In all the WSOs ever created? Or are you taking a sample of .0001% being the ones you bought? You have bought some I hope. If so, are we talking about only the ones you bought or is there a scientific study somewhere that no one is aware of that offers a breakdown of how many people buy WSOs, do everything they are told to do, put in a decent effort, make some money (more than the WSO cost in order to make a decent percentage return) and then NOT come back to tell about it? If so, I would love to see it so I can quite authortatively from it as my source as well because I see lots of people posting in threads and do you think that maybe they might be making money but NOT posting back their exact financial returns and a full report of what they did to get there.

      Here you go again, criticizing me for unsupported comments. You are doing the exact same thing and at least I am using my spell checker. What were you doing, looking at the ceiling when you were typing or were you just pulling this crap out of your head?

      I don't know you, for all I know you could be a great person but please...give me a break. Did you just make this stuff up as you were typing or did you glance at the celing while typing it or what...because that is the exact opposite of what I and many others have discovered. Where did you get your facts from please? I'd like to know.

      The second part of your post was at least right (about Suzanne) but I've got to ask; Did Suzanne "teach" you something? I bet she did. She taught you, you learned - she was your teacher. So why all the hate on the imaginary evil teacher brigade? You can't possibly have anything against learning or teaching or charging? She just proved you wrong. Whether she charged or not the fact was that she tauught you and she's here on the WF and you said in your last paragraph...

      Suzanne had her information clearly posted on her site and didn't try to up sell me to get the complete information.



      So? I'm confused as to your view and why you would say those things to make this place look so bad when you have no way of knowing if any of it is true or based in any fact at all - which it clearly isn't, in fact by your own admission your own experience would indicate the opposite is true.

      You know, I really enjoy being on the WF and have really found some useful information on this forum. What is really distasteful is when you run across the occasional ass who thinks that they can berate anyone who posts something that they do not agree with. Usually the person who is being an ass is someone who has been on the WF a lot longer than you have. I could give 2 sh#%ts about what you think about me or your opinion about anything. I'm sure you are confused. You are probably that way a lot.

      I have NO PROBLEM with people or WSO's on this forum. I do have a problem with the people who tell you that you are going to get something only to find out that you only get a portion of it. I, in n o way implied that all WSO's are guilty of that. I think that the majority are legitimate and are trying to provide you with exactly what they say they are, and then some.
      If you felt that all WSO's were all so "top shelf" you would not have a business called "WSO Help". mmmm? Can you say, Self Serving. I guess that about sums up my opinions. If you want to agree to disagree, we can or we can keep up this childish back and forth.

      Just curious.
      Not curious. Just thinking you are going to berate me on this open forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    ...I do have a problem with the people who tell you that you are going to get something only to find out that you only get a portion of it
    I agree, that sucks. Shouldn't happen but you must admit you made some massive generalisations and if they are left unchecked someone might come in here and believe them.

    Yes I help people get the most from WSOs they buy - that's why I can speak on the level of quality I am seeing and feel compelled to defend against misinformation and false blanket aspersions. I have no control over the quality of any WSOs that are put out because that's not what I do.

    Don't assume that 4 months on this forum tells you the full story about me. I've been using this place for years and more than experience to comment. You're right, this is an open forum and you will be asked to explain your comments occasionally. Just like I just did. You say something I disagree with, I pull you up on it, that's how these places work. I just get sick and tired of hearing the same old falsehoods and clich├ęs and I see the direct result of the damage it does.
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  • Profile picture of the author steve solo
    well said,..lol...after buying all type of stuff fro IM and spending about six months, I proudly said that I made $o with IM yet,..lol..funny you brought this subject up,..NICE

    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

    There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

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  • There is money to be made selling the shovels and there is money to be made digging for the Gold.

    You have to figure out which you are best at... then make it happen.
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    • Profile picture of the author steve solo
      Originally Posted by InternetMarketingIQ View Post

      There is money to be made selling the shovels and there is money to be made digging for the Gold.

      You have to figure out which you are best at... then make it happen.
      Good Point!
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  • Profile picture of the author danielvee
    Yeah, it is an interesting idea. In the country I live there is a saying: "Those who not know it, teach it."

    Well, it is not always true IMO but it is easier to build up an image online than in offline.

    I think those who really achieve solid result are the ones we can really learn from.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Originally Posted by Ryan Kole View Post

    I agree with you, it's obvious that the current amount of "online marketing experts" that are earning $10,000 per week and offering to show you how to do the same for under $20 cannot possibly be real.
    For you maybe, but in the real world it is very real, very possible and makes perfect sense.

    Originally Posted by Ryan Kole View Post

    Obviously, such claims will automatically attract (a specific type of) people. Which, after realizing that hard work is involved in making money, people started to create their own products, using previous methods (sometimes even the exact methods that they read in the product they purchased) and advertised it with more extravagant claims.
    Oh ok, at least now we realise that it IS possible but only after working at it? I think these "people who expect easy money" only exist in people's heads. I have never met anyone who came on here expecting anything to be easy. Every single one of them expected to work very hard.

    So what if two people explain the same thing? How does that harm anyone? The first person might be a horrible teacher and the second guy might be a better teacher or uses a different style. Is there a rule that says only one person is allowed to explain one thing?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Ryan Kole View Post

      No, it doesn't. I hope you don't fail to recognize this as fact.
      Well I've done it plenty of times so I'm not sure which facts you're referring to but my real factual money-in-bank experience tells me other wise and that's a fact.
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

        Well I've done it plenty of times so I'm not sure which facts you're referring to but my real factual money-in-bank experience tells me other wise and that's a fact.
        So Bill, where did you make more... doing or teaching and selling courses. Risk factor not withstanding?
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    There's a ton of multi millionaires that sell books for $20 based on teaching you how.

    Only difference is that they aren't offered with ridiculous over exaggerated income claims.

    You don't see Richard Branson releasing a book called: How I made $48.63451 Million Dollars In 7 Months.. And Did It With Just One Boeing 747!
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      I do have a hardback copy of Why we want you to be rich by The Donald and the author of Rich Dad Poor Dad. I bought it at Goodwill for $2.

      George Wright

      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      There's a ton of multi millionaires that sell books for $20 based on teaching you how.

      Only difference is that they aren't offered with ridiculous over exaggerated income claims.

      You don't see Richard Branson releasing a book called: How I made $48.63451 Million Dollars In 7 Months.. And Did It With Just One Boeing 747!
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by Ryan Kole View Post

      You're confusing something. I don't think any multimillionaire ever wrote a detailed step-by-step guide on what to do (e.g. buy this, do this, make this, go there, etc.) to get rich. However, they document their subjective experience of becoming rich and the conceptual knowledge that they've gained out of that experience or rather, journey.

      What people in online marketing do is document a method of obtaining a promised result in a predetermined time period (e.g. "$10,000 in 2 Weeks through P.P.C") all under the premise of it being replicable. One is objective, the other subjective.
      I tend to agree.

      But what you'll find in these types of threads are responses based on the poster's vested interest.

      Yours seems a well articulated resposne(s).
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    What bothers me about this thread is that the OP made a VALID POINT and has had several insults hurled his way in response. OP has called absolutely nobody out by name yet more than one person felt it necessary to either call him names or hurl other insults.

    In my experience, most folks who resort to insults and name calling generally have no other valid counterpoint to make. Now, that may not be the case all the time but it sure comes across that way to people.

    The fact that someone questions popular belief doesn't necessarily make him a troll or a troublemaker.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      What bothers me about this thread is that the OP made a VALID POINT

      What valid point do you imagine he made?

      The only point he attempted to make in the OP was this...

      "or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable
      than actually doing what you are teaching."

      That statement doesn't even exist in the same universe
      as actual valid points. That barely qualifies as an uneducated
      opinion.
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        What valid point do you imagine he made?
        Man, and I though I was arrogant. I wasn't imagining anything:

        There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making schemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars.


        Are you going to try and tell me that most who sell "methods" are actually as successful as they claim before selling the methods?
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          Man, and I though I was arrogant. I wasn't imagining anything:

          There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making schemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars.


          Are you going to try and tell me that most who sell "methods" are actually as successful as they claim before selling the methods?
          I'm going to tell you that the OP has no idea if they
          are, or not. Without that knowledge he has no point,
          let alone a valid one.

          Don't mistake directness for arrogance... there's a difference.
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        On what basis do you make this comment?

        I have worked with and under some very successful info marketers down here. I have made more money from a weekend seminar than a whole year's book sales.

        The common thread with all of them is that the best way to make a buck or 1million is to master something, then leverage from it by charging high prices for coaching.

        Fake it until you make it and all that. Then the cartel gives each other pumped up testimonials, much the same way as the Gurus do over there.

        You scratch my bank account and I'll scratch yours.

        So technically, yes I agree that there is more money to be made teaching than doing.

        It's not for everyone, just as many hate public speaking.

        But the facts remain, that it is easier to make more money teaching than selling an info product.

        Don't agree? Then that's your entitlement... but spare me the condescending, pompous arrogance.

        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        What valid point do you imagine he made?

        The only point he attempted to make in the OP was this...

        "or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable
        than actually doing what you are teaching."

        That statement doesn't even exist in the same universe
        as actual valid points. That barely qualifies as an uneducated
        opinion.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        That statement doesn't even exist in the same universe as actual valid points. That barely qualifies as an uneducated
        opinion.
        Excuse me!

        I wrote Zombie Blogging with John Schwartz last year.

        Income from doing it: About $600.

        Income from selling a $7 ebook about how to do it: Over $1,400.

        Know what John's primary business is right now? Coaching.

        But do you know why teaching pays us more than actually doing it does?

        Because we've actually done it.

        The OP's big screwup is in saying "hey, who would sell you that for such a low price?" - well, we would. And then he says "don't do this stuff, teach it!" - which is just plain stupid.

        You have to start by doing it. And here's the fun part.

        You can make it impossible to make more money teaching than you did doing, by teaching what you did... using what you did.

        Do you know what I do right now? I sell products about making products.

        My first three products were NOT about making products. So that's about $12k that is from making products, but not from teaching how to make products.

        Which means I can sell all the products about making products I want, and I've always made $12k more from making products than I have from teaching how to make products.

        So I can always say "I have made more doing what I teach than I have made teaching it."

        But that took work. It took thought and consideration and a serious examination of credibility.

        My first product was SEO Forever. Do you know how much money I made from SEO? None. Ever. I made that product using my experience working on search engine development teams at Microsoft and Infospace. It was the wrong side of the table for most people, so the product didn't do well.

        My second product was Zombie Blogging with John. I made money with it, sure, but I made a whole lot more with the product.

        So my third product was The .357 Article Method. It was about writing articles. Do you know how much money I made writing articles before I did that product?

        About $30k.

        Never came close to that in sales. But I made about $9k with it.

        The difference is that it took me six months to make $30k writing articles, and three months to make $9k selling a product.

        But the product was already done.

        I had to write almost a thousand articles to make $30k. For the product? One ebook. Roughly fifteen articles worth of writing. And what I would have made $750 doing for a client, I made $9k doing for myself.

        And then I switched to products about products. Because product creation and other forms of coaching or teaching really are the best way forward. You really do make more money doing it.

        What I take issue with is the assertion that you can't possibly know what you're talking about if you sell "make money online" products at low prices.

        Because the reality is, people in online marketing who can afford high prices... don't need to be told how to make money. Duh.

        Sure, the course is worth a hundred times what you pay, but without the information in the course you just plain don't have that much money. If you did, you wouldn't need it.

        And that particular kind of stupidity is exactly the same kind that leads people to say "I'm going to skip the 'find out what works' step and just teach people some sh!t I made up."
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Excuse me!

          I wrote Zombie Blogging with John Schwartz last year.

          Income from doing it: About $600.

          Income from selling a $7 ebook about how to do it: Over $1,400.

          Know what John's primary business is right now? Coaching.

          But do you know why teaching pays us more than actually doing it does?

          Because we've actually done it.

          The OP's big screwup is in saying "hey, who would sell you that for such a low price?" - well, we would. And then he says "don't do this stuff, teach it!" - which is just plain stupid.

          You have to start by doing it. And here's the fun part.

          You can make it impossible to make more money teaching than you did doing, by teaching what you did... using what you did.

          Do you know what I do right now? I sell products about making products.

          My first three products were NOT about making products. So that's about $12k that is from making products, but not from teaching how to make products.

          Which means I can sell all the products about making products I want, and I've always made $12k more from making products than I have from teaching how to make products.

          So I can always say "I have made more doing what I teach than I have made teaching it."

          But that took work. It took thought and consideration and a serious examination of credibility.

          My first product was SEO Forever. Do you know how much money I made from SEO? None. Ever. I made that product using my experience working on search engine development teams at Microsoft and Infospace. It was the wrong side of the table for most people, so the product didn't do well.

          My second product was Zombie Blogging with John. I made money with it, sure, but I made a whole lot more with the product.

          So my third product was The .357 Article Method. It was about writing articles. Do you know how much money I made writing articles before I did that product?

          About $30k.

          Never came close to that in sales. But I made about $9k with it.

          The difference is that it took me six months to make $30k writing articles, and three months to make $9k selling a product.

          But the product was already done.

          I had to write almost a thousand articles to make $30k. For the product? One ebook. Roughly fifteen articles worth of writing. And what I would have made $750 doing for a client, I made $9k doing for myself.

          And then I switched to products about products. Because product creation and other forms of coaching or teaching really are the best way forward. You really do make more money doing it.

          What I take issue with is the assertion that you can't possibly know what you're talking about if you sell "make money online" products at low prices.

          Because the reality is, people in online marketing who can afford high prices... don't need to be told how to make money. Duh.

          Sure, the course is worth a hundred times what you pay, but without the information in the course you just plain don't have that much money. If you did, you wouldn't need it.

          And that particular kind of stupidity is exactly the same kind that leads people to say "I'm going to skip the 'find out what works' step and just teach people some sh!t I made up."
          A guy who says what I'm thinking. Gotta love that.

          Thanks Caliban. Couldn't have said it better if I tried.

          Now I gotta get ready to go to my friend's comic shop to play some MTG!

          God I'm such a nerd.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Thanks Caliban. Couldn't have said it better if I tried.
            Oh, you're just in too much of a hurry to run off and play MtG.

            Now I gotta get ready to go to my friend's comic shop to play some MTG!
            See, I knew it. Nerd.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Ram
            Frankly, if you can sell MMO products, then you ARE doing it. Only those who don't make money from selling MMO are selling dreams without actually doing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Careful, the almighty ones will call you silly names.

      Obviously, people can only question conventional wisdom with their approval.

      Regardless of the motive behind the thread, it is still a valid topic to debate... without the personal insults.

      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      What bothers me about this thread is that the OP made a VALID POINT and has had several insults hurled his way in response. OP has called absolutely nobody out by name yet more than one person felt it necessary to either call him names or hurl other insults.

      In my experience, most folks who resort to insults and name calling generally have no other valid counterpoint to make. Now, that may not be the case all the time but it sure comes across that way to people.

      The fact that someone questions popular belief doesn't necessarily make him a troll or a troublemaker.
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  • Anybody can teach. However, my belief is that those who teach with any integrity have to do first before they teach. You can teach what you can't do, but you CAN'T teach effectively unless you know how to do.

    Just my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
    Banned
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

    There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

    LOL Yeh that's true. but you also have to realize that it is important and paramount to provide actual workable information in your courses. Courses that make people money...usually makes you money as well.

    There are also some ebooks that launch and get no more than 10 sales completely wasting the time you spent. I've been fortunate enough to have my WSOs pretty successful to date though and so I do have to agree with you there is money to be made in mproduct creation.

    It's faster and easier in most cases. But often it should be off methods that hav been tried and tested. Few people buy in to method that are "possibilities" and if you don't have the proof to back it up; it can easily go down the drain.

    It's about delivering value and quality.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    The fact that he makes a point to say there are exceptions makes it a valid point to me. Of course it is difficult to prove but common sense (in my opinion) tells me that if someone is actually making $500 per day (or some other outlandish claim), he is typically not going to advertise that "method" for $27 (for various reasons that I'm too lazy to type out).

    As a case in point, I currently earn $xxxx per month via affiliate marketing. It would be easy for me to package this VERY UNIQUE strategy up along with the tools I use and sell it for $97 (or whatever). But why would I do that and create competition for myself?? My gut tells me I'm not the only one that thinks this way.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      The fact that he makes a point to say there are exceptions makes it a valid point to me. Of course it is difficult to prove but common sense (in my opinion) tells me that if someone is actually making $500 per day (or some other outlandish claim), he is typically not going to advertise that "method" for $27 (for various reasons that I'm too lazy to type out).

      As a case in point, I currently earn per month via affiliate marketing. It would be easy for me to package this VERY UNIQUE strategy up along with the tools I use and sell it for $97 (or whatever). But why would I do that and create competition for myself??
      For various reasons that I'm too lazy to type out.
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      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        For various reasons that I'm too lazy to type out.

        OK then...

        1. Time. If GuruA is running a legit, profitable business, he is probably putting alot of time into it. Most successful businesses require a solid time commitment. Where does one find the time to provide support to end users of an ebook?

        2. Money. Running a legit, profitable business requires time. Time is money. If GuruA earns $100 for every hour he spends IMPLEMENTING his method, why would he divert time away from that to sell an ebook and support end users, which at the end of the day, is far more costly in terms of time spent?

        3. Competition. Why sell a method that is only going to create competition? OP alluded to this and I agree. Most people are not into charity when it comes to their business plans and strategies.

        I'll offer up XFactor as ExhibitA. He is the perfect example of what the OP is talking about.
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        • Profile picture of the author JB
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          OK then...

          1. Time. If GuruA is running a legit, profitable business, he is probably putting alot of time into it. Most successful businesses require a solid time commitment. Where does one find the time to provide support to end users of an ebook?

          2. Money. Running a legit, profitable business requires time. Time is money. If GuruA earns $100 for every hour he spends IMPLEMENTING his method, why would he divert time away from that to sell an ebook and support end users, which at the end of the day, is far more costly in terms of time spent?

          3. Competition. Why sell a method that is only going to create competition? OP alluded to this and I agree. Most people are not into charity when it comes to their business plans and strategies.

          I'll offer up XFactor as ExhibitA. He is the perfect example of what the OP is talking about.
          ^^^
          exactly how I see it too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay81
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

    There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

    If you want to go far in the business of product selling, you must first learn, practice, get reasonable result that others will be interested in and then package an information product on how you got those result. If you just put information you can't back up, or prove to work together then your sales will be low, that's if there will even be sales because for something you have no idea how it works, your sales pitch will not be convincing. If you go through the WSO you will see most of the sales posts are backed up with some proof to show what they are selling to you will work for you.

    The information marketing business is getting crowded, you can find several people selling related products, so buyers have options. So to get them to buy yours, they must be convinced yours is the best for them.

    Moreover, if you're in the business for the long haul, it's important first to be a doer before teaching because if you write one great product that works, you won't need to find new customers for your next product, your old customers who already bought your first product and got their money's worth will be anxious for your next product. And they will even get you new customers because they will be talking about what great product you have and the result they got using your product in forums. Like they say, a good product sells itself. Also remember that a good name is better than silver and gold.

    Finally, writing an ebook to sell is the easy part, actually getting people to buy that ebook is the not so easy part. So you must know what you're doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Damielle
    There's certainly a lot of money in teaching as you can charge more for your valuable time and experience.

    However, I don't think its sustainable for someone who actually isn't doing to convince the masses that they are for any extended period of time.

    You may make some sales initially, but eventually the refunds will start to come

    'You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time'
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  • Profile picture of the author KayMaxim
    Interesting discussion guys. Thanks. As for me, I am a newbie in the process of learning with a very good tutor that has integrity. She hasn't lied to me or led me on and is honest about what I can expect. I know that there is lots of work on the pathway to success. Before I came across her, I was duped by the hype and thought it was easier and more profitable than it is.

    Thank God for a good tutor like mine who set me straight.
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    • Profile picture of the author natethegreat7037
      Um.

      I'm pretty sure, the money is in both. Why would a teacher sell something if he didn't do it? Really think about it. Look how many of these wso's offer support and answer faq's. I'm pretty sure this would be impossible if they never actually DID what they are teaching.

      And of course there's money in teaching. You're basically revealing one of your products at a price. I'm currently working on a method myself..which is requiring a LOT of doing. But once I get it working, I want to TEACH it.

      This just sounds like an excuse to blame your inability to make money online.

      These teachers have offered a plethora of ways to make money on here. (i.e. The Google Love Method, etc.) These guys can lead you to water all day, but you have to drink. Instead of blaming teachers...:

      Find one of these awesome wso's.
      Stick to it. (don't chase the next shiny thing)
      DO IT.
      Find useful methods you can incorporate into a different product.
      Make something unique of your own.
      Teach it.

      There's a reason a lot of these wso's look the same.. And when I realized that.. that's when it clicked. The techniques have been proven time and time again to work.

      Since then, I've had no problem sticking to one method..and I plan on seeing it through until it starts making $$. And once I get great at it..guess what I'm going to do?
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      Success leaves clues.

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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    This is not just on the internet. It is in the offline world, too. Many people (most who have not "made it", you might say) cannot believe that someone who is doing very well would have any reason to give anything away below value, yet it happens frequently.

    I myself have done this offline many times and only charged enough to cover expenses.

    So I'm sure that there are people online, as well, who have done well themselves and want to help others.

    I'm sure online, that there are also people who present themselves as whatever they want to make a quick buck. It is easier to do online.

    So you do have to be cautious, but I wouldn't just assume everything that is free or at a low cost is not valuable.

    Once, years ago, on an investing forum, I built an online relationship with someone and after a while we decided to communicate for real. I found out this person was famous and wealthy and we ended up doing 3 joint ventures. He was actually on there anonymously to help as many people as he could but most thought he was a just a scammer.

    Some advise I got years ago was, "if it sounds too good to be true, it very well may not be, but it might be, so check it out. don't just assume it is bad."

    :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Kom
    From 100% ,maybe 5% and maybe less people make money online , thought just make website and put link affiliate make money, there is just a couple step to far , need more advertising and promote , promote , and...promote,
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    I taught myself how to teach teachers to teach other teachers.

    I just need more students now ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author powerbuks
    everything is the part of the universe.
    Guru's,scamsters,buyers,sellers,you and me all come in IM. The deeper you go the better you understand.

    You can use a thing which is not commonly available = common sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    The problem I see with this thread is that most of the
    participants are stuck in Warrior Forum mentality. In other
    words, the Warrior Forum is pretty much your frame of
    reference for what people are doing on the internet.

    So... naturally... given that frame of reference... it's easy
    to see why you'd think that people make more money teaching
    than doing.

    Sorry... I love the Warrior Forum but if this is the standard
    you apply for determining who is doing what to make money
    on the internet you are putting up artificial barriers and limiting
    yourself in ways you don't even understand.

    There are MANY people making millions of dollars on the internet
    doing... and... surprise!... they have zero interest in teaching.

    The OP, and those who accept his flawed premise, don't know what
    they don't know.
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    • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      The problem I see with this thread is that most of the
      participants are stuck in Warrior Forum mentality. In other
      words, the Warrior Forum is pretty much your frame of
      reference for what people are doing on the internet.

      So... naturally... given that frame of reference... it's easy
      to see why you'd think that people make more money teaching
      than doing.

      Sorry... I love the Warrior Forum but if this is the standard
      you apply for determining who is doing what to make money
      on the internet you are putting up artificial barriers and limiting
      yourself in ways you don't even understand.

      There are MANY people making millions of dollars on the internet
      doing... and... surprise!... they have zero interest in teaching.

      The OP, and those who accept his flawed premise, don't know what
      they don't know.
      The problem with the Warriorforum is that it's so big and so many newbs find it and so many Warriors know how to string words together to make it seem like they know what they're talking about. They're the same peeps who will coldcall business talking about the latest fad, places, facebook, mobile, whatever, all the time not having a clue what they're really talking about. These types are leeches of the people who actually produce. Imo., if you really want to make money on the internet, gtfo of Warriorforum as soon as you can.
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  • Profile picture of the author hbhanot
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.

    There is always exceptions to every rule, but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

    No way one can say only teacher make money or money is in teaching. Definietly they are making money by selling their products to teach the newcomers. Many of them may not work but sell. Making money with teaching can be called Another income stream for the experienced internet marketer etc. Who is already making money and now, knows the path how he get there and selling it to those who want to be on the same path. Affiliate selling your product will make you more money than selling affiliate products. I would call it quick income of a teacher.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    This has certainly been a topic that has spun out of control. "IM" means more than just teaching people to market online. There are many sub-categories.

    If you sell software, then your money is in selling software.
    If you sell tangible goods, then your money is in selling those goods.
    If you sell information products, then you are likely making money teaching people to do things.

    I don't know why so many of you have to complicate this. Amazon makes millions upon millions selling tangible goods. Frank Kern makes millions upon millions teaching people to sell online. They are very, very different business models. Why are we obsessed on comparing them?

    Private schools and colleges make loads teaching people, yet you don't find threads from students yelling that the money is in opening a University.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      "IM" means more than just teaching people to market online.
      It's usually clear from context what people mean. In the context of this thread, we're talking about "selling coaching/systems in the IM niche."

      Certainly IM can mean many other things, but that's not what we're talking about; trying to mount a rebuttal to the OP that lots of people don't sell such systems (as some people have already done) is just missing the point.

      It's not limited to IM, of course. If you teach people how to make money doing something, IM or otherwise, then it's a valid question to wonder why you don't just go make money doing that instead of teaching people.

      It is, however, still a question and not a clear and simple line.

      I'm seeing a very real blindness in the latest crop of Warriors, in that they don't seem to understand products in the IM niche are not all about making money.

      There's a lot of bitterness and resentment around "make $X in Y hours/days" products, but if you look at the WSO forum... well, I see all of five WSOs on the front page with income claims over the poverty line. Four more promise income that amounts to less than $30k annually.

      So 85% of the WSOs are not making income claims in the subject, and almost half of the rest are making very small income claims.

      Precisely TWO of the remaining WSOs promise what would amount to a six-figure income ($120k and $150k respectively). The three others hover around $60k, which is far from unreasonable. I don't see anything promising it leads to seven figures a year or more.

      So I pulled out a calculator. Average income claim of a WSO on the first page at this writing: $60k. Lowest claim is $12k. Highest is $150k.

      It just doesn't seem to me that this bitching and moaning about income claims is even grounded in reality.
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      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        It's usually clear from context what people mean. In the context of this thread, we're talking about "selling coaching/systems in the IM niche."

        Certainly IM can mean many other things, but that's not what we're talking about; trying to mount a rebuttal to the OP that lots of people don't sell such systems (as some people have already done) is just missing the point.

        It's not limited to IM, of course. If you teach people how to make money doing something, IM or otherwise, then it's a valid question to wonder why you don't just go make money doing that instead of teaching people.

        It is, however, still a question and not a clear and simple line.

        I'm seeing a very real blindness in the latest crop of Warriors, in that they don't seem to understand products in the IM niche are not all about making money.

        There's a lot of bitterness and resentment around "make in Y hours/days" products, but if you look at the WSO forum... well, I see all of five WSOs on the front page with income claims over the poverty line. Four more promise income that amounts to less than $30k annually.

        So 85% of the WSOs are not making income claims in the subject, and almost half of the rest are making very small income claims.

        Precisely TWO of the remaining WSOs promise what would amount to a six-figure income ($120k and $150k respectively). The three others hover around $60k, which is far from unreasonable. I don't see anything promising it leads to seven figures a year or more.

        So I pulled out a calculator. Average income claim of a WSO on the first page at this writing: $60k. Lowest claim is $12k. Highest is $150k.

        It just doesn't seem to me that this bitching and moaning about income claims is even grounded in reality.
        But if you add up all of the income claims from the WSO section, divide them by the number of sellers making the claims, add your age plus the number of years you have been riding a bike, subtract your weight, and multiply by pi, then you will get a whole new perspective on things.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    At one point or another it has struck you as to why everyone is selling there millionaire online marketing secrets and software. Maybe you thought they are just nice and helpful. Maybe you rationalized there is enough to go around, or maybe you finally figured out teaching is far more profitable than actually doing what you are teaching.
    I agree with what you stated but you're missing a couple other sides to the argument. What if the teacher has been asked by several people to teach them? As an entrepreneur would that teacher be an idiot for turning away those people or would they be a smart business person for accepting them in exchange for a fee?

    There's more to life then JUST money. Teaching is very profitable. So is doing the stuff you're teaching but there's two aspects you're missing in your post.

    First some teachers teach because they like the rewards outside of the monetary ones. See this: Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (it's wikipedia so it's got to be true). Once you've covered your safety needs, you move onto other needs that develop. As you move higher up that diagram on that page, money doesn't become your central focus anymore. I know this as I've experienced it. Sometimes helping someone else become successful is worth more then another $10,000 a month. You can't take money with you and why not help as many people as you can while you're on this big ball of dirt?

    Second, anyone who has done their own stuff knows how it's profitable, takes 16 hours per day and you're doing alone. Humans are social animals. We need interaction with others, so if I'm spending 16 hours doing my own stuff on my own, YES I will make MORE money, but I'll also go nuts because I do not have the time to enjoy it with my loved ones. So I take a "pay cut" and teach people how to do it for this reason too.

    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    There is always exceptions to every rule,
    Exactly, you can't paint everyone with one broad stroke. Online people take offense if they think you're talking about them. You've stated that you're not referring to all teachers, (just most apparently). That's a good thing.

    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    but it simply doesn't stand to reason why so many of these "experts" are selling there money making shemes for 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars. Open your eyes, put your credit cards away and formulate a plan to begin teaching, not doing. Let others do and fail as the mass majority do, the only one who doesnt fail is the TEACHER.
    I kind of agree with you on this too. There are now courses out there teaching people how to launch courses about making money online. The people putting these out there have no business doing so. So yeah, you're right.

    As for the reasons why, I listed 2 above but a 3rd is volume. If you charge a low amount for your knowledge, (and you're legit), then you can make a lot of money doing it. Typically it's a marketing gimmick to get you into their sales funnel where at the end is the magical $500 upsell that you would never have even considered if they didn't charge $7 to start. It's just a marketing technique. But there is a lot of money to be made in doing it.

    Originally Posted by woodsy1 View Post

    Im not an internet marketing guru, BUT I did sleep at Holiday Inn last night

    Everyone has a right to post their opinion and there's no need for anyone in this thread to personally attack anyone else for not agreeing with it.

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  • Profile picture of the author 3bagsfull
    The problem is what some of the big name (aka the syndicate) players have "done" to the industry. They saw an opportunity and seized it and charged BIG dollars for their programs -- and people signed up in droves

    but time has passed and more people have personal experience working with the internet -- and the "shocking" experience is that it is WORK!!!

    There is nothing wrong with teaching or coaching or whatever you want to call it. The issue is the OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS -- and the answer is BUYER BEWARE. You have to put on your thinking caps and leave your emotions at the door.

    I love learning new things and their are lots of wonderful "teachers" here and elsewhere (tiffany dow, chris guthrie, pat flynn are some of my favorites) that teach and sell products and stay away from the hype.

    If you want to buy a product or a system - then do YOUR RESEARCH before you hit the BUY NOW button.

    (as an interesting side research project -- google salty droid and check out the info on stompernet and andy jenkins -- why because it isn't the GROSS income that EVER EVER EVER EVER matters -- it is PROFIT!!!! -- yes, they may have had a six figure launch but how much did they pay themselves, how much did they have to spend to get the program made, and did they pay their affiliates and staff)

    Teaching is great -- but you don't have to be TAUGHT by every teacher out there. YOU can decide who you learn from
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
      Originally Posted by 3bagsfull View Post

      (as an interesting side research project -- google salty droid and check out the info on stompernet and andy jenkins -- why because it isn't the GROSS income that EVER EVER EVER EVER matters -- it is PROFIT!!!! -- yes, they may have had a six figure launch but how much did they pay themselves, how much did they have to spend to get the program made, and did they pay their affiliates and staff)
      I only count in "Tommy Dollars". (No kidding, I actually call them that) AFTER, expenses, reinvestment, tithes and donations and taxes. What's left
      (if anything) are "Tommy Dollars". What else counts?

      Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author Cash37
    You are 100% right. It's in teaching (a team how to do it for you while you scale your business!)
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    One last word in this wandering thread. I found out decades ago as a graduate assistant and later as a teacher that you will never learn any subject so well as when you have to teach it to others. You have to be able to reasonably explain every concept, justify every action and achieve consistent quantifiable DUPLICATABLE results. It takes a lot of effort to stay ahead of a classroom full of students. Just being privileged to stand in the front of a class translates to an awesome responsibility.

    Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    The number of people who want to learn IM far outweighs the number who teach it. Why would you be shocked to come to a place of IM learning and find teachers?

    There are 38 million people in the world who are classified as millionaires, that's less than one in 200 I read the other day, and no Im not smart enough to figure out the math, but I HAVE made millions of dollar in sales in my lifetime....

    Why is it so hard to believe that a couple hundred of those millionaires could be here? There are 38 MILLION of them. It makes sense that some of them would be at a money making forum. At least a small percentage. Doesnt take a college degree to figure that out.

    Sounds like you are pissed that 25 year old high school dropouts are making more money than you ever dreamed with your college degree, teaching stuff they know to people who REALLY want to know it.

    What happens is offliners like me who have been outsourcing for years, come here to learn how to expand on what they do (learn to build their own sites so they can quit getting raped by designers), and in the process they see that others need to know what THEY know... so they teach it.

    The demand gets big, and their students start succeeding and needing counsiling and more advanced thoughts on the subject as they grow.... and the next thing you know you are teaching more...then the next thing you know the students want a different angle so you teach that... Then the next thing you know you are feeling great about helping people...then the next thing you know you spent half of your year teaching passionately and only half the time selling that you did the year before...

    When I came here myself I wanted to learn about building websites, and found that the people who knew needed me too, because they didnt know how to cold call... Somehow by total accident I swear, I ended up owning a teaching forum with 2500 members who REALLY need what I teach.

    I still sell websites, but I probably have spent more time this year teaching, and it has been more life enriching though not as much money.

    Supply/Demand.

    BTW: I feel no need to hide it, that I make money teaching my expertise, and my students are proud to support that. Im proud of it. When does a person have to feel shame for being a teacher?

    Another example:

    Before last year I could never tell you in a million years how to build a forum... but now Im a pro who has made around 50k part time from just being a forum owner within the last years... and I bet you could learn a thing or two from me. A thing or two that would be worth far more than $27.00!

    See how this works?

    Here's a tip:

    A: Find a webdesigner
    B: Get a Phone Book
    C: Call 200 people and ask them if they need a website.
    D: Go out and see the ones who are interested and "sell" them one.

    Now you just made $500- $1000

    Does that sound like rocket science? Do I need a degree to teach you that?

    Are there literally a MILLION SALES TRAINERS in the offline world with no degree?

    See? You are ranting, and your intelligent thoughts are leaving out alot of important considerations.

    What about the guy who doesnt have a college degree but he learned car sales, and his boss gets an idea, and asked him to "Blindly" list some cars on ebay (they are TRYING IT OUT) and auto trader, and over months time he becomes really good at making listings and end up selling a car every other day online...

    Lets say that six months ago he had never made a dime in his life and now he is making money hand over fist because he stumbled onto his own way of selling cars online...

    Let me ask...Would you like to know what he knows?

    Could he teach you something?

    Would he need any qualifications?

    Is he smarter than alot of people with teaching degree's?

    Last example...

    I have a friend who hired a WELFARE MOM who is REALLY REALLY not what you would think of as a specialist... In fact just two years ago she was a total crack addict and the largest word in her vocabulary only had 4 letters it seemed.

    I personally trained her to run his ebay site. she does it now all by herself... When I left her it was at a few grand per month, a year and a half later its at $12,000-$15,000 per month.

    Her favorite word still has four letters, and she can barely even spell it! lol (Thats extreme , but trying to show you here...) YET, he cant live without her, she runs his ebay site like a clock and knows it better than I do now...

    And guess what... She could come here and teach people how to start an ebay site, and be legit.

    So, I think you are ranting, and your view is tarnished by jealousy.

    You would probably run Bethany off this forum,. but she could teach just about anyone to start their own ebay site, and has since. She now trains assistants at it. For that matter so could I, but you never hear me teach it. I have passion for what I teach, which is telemarketing.

    Hope this helps someone.

    Ps. That lesson was free. and I dont have a degree, but I am WAAAY over qualified to teach it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    I can't wait until dark to see if all the planets are lined up. I actually agree with John's entire rant. I came here for the same thing a lot of other people are here for. There were holes in my business model that depended on other people to fill. I hate that. I don't mind out sourcing but I like to have practical working knowledge of every part of it. In the process I discovered additional income producing models I could adapt to my own style.
    .
    I could probably learn a bunch about cold calling from John. Its a weak area for me. I don't recall anyone saying a positive word about it here. I hate it. I wouldn't do it at all except that it happens to work. I try to allocate about the worst four hours every week to cold calling. My secret is to do it on Monday mornings and then I don't have it to look forward to all week.
    .
    All the talk about offline marketing in here nobody has ever had a good thread about getting by the gatekeepers. Several threads have been started only to be locked or deleted, including one by me. Fortunately "somebody" posted my exact OP in "another" forum and it was a great long running thread everyone learned from. (You can jump up and down about Mom and Pop businesses all day long but bigger businesses have bigger checkbooks.)
    .
    There are a few other "taboo" subjects here but most of the information anybody could need to make a start online is right here, or in the War Room. The rest is out there somewhere for anybody who actually looks.

    Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author bgean
    I do believe, for the most part, any newcomer can come to the Warrior Forum and learn a thing or two about Internet Marketing. Alternatively, you can stumble upon your share of systems that simply do not work for you. It does not always mean the system is a failure; it could very well be that it was not the right system for you.

    Being a teacher does not require you to be a specialist in any given field. You need only possess an abundance of knowledge others do not possess and wish to gain. If you prefer to hand that knowledge over to others - freely and without a monetary exchange, that is your God given right to do so.

    If you prefer selling your knowledge to gain a profit, this too is acceptable. However, please bear in mind that if you intend to teach, give your students everything they need in order to complete the learning cycle. Please DO NOT sell them a $7 course and then spring it on them later that it is going to cost an additional $197 for a software package to complete their education.

    I readily admit, these marketing ploys turn my stomach, build distrust, and make it harder for other professionals to attract new clients. The professionals, which truly help an individual succeed in business - whether that is online or off.

    Tiffany Dow is such a person. I wish there were more Internet marketers like her!

    On another note:

    As I read this forum, I was flabbergasted at some of the responses being so haughty and delivered with such cynicism. I do not particularly care how much money you make in Internet Marketing or whether you are a teacher or a doer.

    What I do care about is how you treat other people, especially newcomers who happen upon you for the first time - and the impression they walk away with... after reading your posts. While your posts may possess valid points of argument, there is no reason it needs to come across as a crude slap in the face. Honestly, I remember the crude delivery more than the actual point you were trying to make.

    You may not agree with what people state here, and that is ok, but how does it make you any better than the OP when you treat him/her without respect as you deliver a response? I had to double check - am I really in the company of professionals? Where I come from, whether a person is a client, prospect, friend or newcomer - you do not need to deliver your communication with such malice in order to make a point.

    The way you handle yourself in a forum, speaks volumes. In addition, in my opinion, if you hope to make a favorable impression, start first by checking your attitude at the door. I do not care for those who swear openly in public and I certainly do not care for people who deem it necessary to belittle someone else, even if the OP claims are outlandish.

    If you truly want others to see you as being a professional, you first have to ACT like one. I was under the impression we were adults. I'd like to see more adult-like interaction and not feel as if I'm in the midst of people fighting over who gets to sit next to whom at the lunch table.

    Thanks for reading.
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    • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
      Originally Posted by bgean View Post

      I do believe, for the most part, any newcomer can come to the Warrior Forum and learn a thing or two about Internet Marketing. Alternatively, you can stumble upon your share of systems that simply do not work for you. It does not always mean the system is a failure; it could very well be that it was not the right system for you.

      Being a teacher does not require you to be a specialist in any given field. You need only possess an abundance of knowledge others do not possess and wish to gain. If you prefer to hand that knowledge over to others - freely and without a monetary exchange, that is your God given right to do so.

      If you prefer selling your knowledge to gain a profit, this too is acceptable. However, please bear in mind that if you intend to teach, give your students everything they need in order to complete the learning cycle. Please DO NOT sell them a $7 course and then spring it on them later that it is going to cost an additional $197 for a software package to complete their education.

      I readily admit, these marketing ploys turn my stomach, build distrust, and make it harder for other professionals to attract new clients. The professionals, which truly help an individual succeed in business - whether that is online or off.

      Tiffany Dow is such a person. I wish there were more Internet marketers like her!
      Very well said! I recently purchased Tiffany Dow's program and I'm working hard on putting all of the information to use. I've purchased several little programs, nothing more than about $37, and although the entire program may not have been for me, I have taken away something from each and every one of them.

      I sell a little $7 ebook about starting in general transcription and I give away a lot of tips and techniques in that field, as well as a lot of other things I've learned in the last 15+ years online. And I had a colleague the other day tell me I should be charging for my information, so I may put together a $17 video course and make some passive income on what I've learned in transcription.

      I won't be touting "look at how much I've made" and I won't have the thousands of testimonials and I won't be running it as a WSO either, but it will have a lot of information that I've learned over the years that will help people get started in the business.

      Like Tiffany Dow's program, sure, I'll be showing people how they can compete with me in the transcription industry, but also like Tiffany, I know there's more work out there than there are typists, and I don't plan on "doing" the manual transcription myself for much longer anyway so this will be my way of building a passive income by "teaching" others how to do what I've been doing but don't want to do any more.
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  • Profile picture of the author timchuks87
    You know, there is a lump of truth in that.

    However, you want courses that really reveal a secret then, you'll have to pay Good money for it.
    pointer, sometimes invitation is private/exclusive.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
    So just learn from those who have done it!

    The products, courses, coaching, etc...that are based on real-world experience will always rise to the top -- you can fool some o da people some o da time, but not everyone all of the time....

    Jeff
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Let me ask a question of those in this thread who believe that people who
      teach only make money from teaching because they honestly can't do anything
      else because if they could, they wouldn't teach.

      Let's say marketer A promised to take you by the hand, step by step and
      walk you through setting up and then running a business where you sold an
      actual product and then, after doing this, you actually made a decent income
      online.

      What would you be willing to pay for such a service?

      Believe it or not, you will get people saying all kinds of things.

      1. I would only pay a percentage of my profits AFTER I start making money.

      2. I would pay thousands of dollars for such training but don't have the
      money so I can only pay a few dollars (few being whatever paltry sum they
      come up with)

      3. I would pay thousands of dollars for such training and do have it to pay.
      Here is my check.

      4. I would pay any amount at all (even though in reality they can't possibly
      do that unless they're already filthy rich)

      And all kinds of answers in between.

      The answer YOU give will depend on many factors.

      1. Your ability to pay. Some people really are not well off and I feel for them.
      If you can't pay, you can't pay. And yes, some people can't pay, especially
      if they're just about making the rent each month. That's a tough rock to
      climb out from under.

      2. Your cynicism level. Some people simply don't believe that a person who
      teaches rather than does really knows anything of value.

      3. Your need for the information. Some people just don't care enough. It's not
      important enough for them to pay for training. They'd rather go the "search
      for it for free" route and use trial and error. It's not so much that they're
      cynical. They just feel they can get to the same place, even if not as fast,
      on their own.

      4. Your trust in the particular person offering the training. Some people do
      believe that training is important and even helpful, do believe it's legit, but
      have no faith or trust in the person offering the training. This is actually a
      very healthy way of approaching the situation. If I go to ANYBODY for help
      for ANYTHING, you better believe that I am going to research that person
      first to see if I can trust them. I have learned this from my own bad experience.

      So, take all of the above and add it all up and you can see that this whole
      issue is a lot more complex than most people realize.

      It isn't a clear case of "IM teachers are BSers because if they weren't they'd
      be doing instead of teaching."

      Truth is, and this is coming from somebody who has done plenty for more
      than 8 years online, I have done plenty...and a lot of it having nothing to
      do with the MMO niche. But doing is a TON of work.

      Teaching is very little work.

      So if you can do and back it up with solid evidence, then why in God's name
      would you NOT want to teach others? Hell, you've earned your stripes and
      gotten your battle scars. You've suffered through the lean years. You've
      banged your head against plenty of stone walls until you FINALLY got it.
      You've worked your 14 hour days and ruined your health.

      You did it all, finally figured out how to actually SELL sh*t and NOW you
      can sit back, relax and ENJOY it.

      So why the hell NOT teach people?

      You've EARNED IT!

      No more researching niches and putting up websites.

      No more building lists and selling products from those websites.

      No more having to bother with outsourcers who don't finish projects on time
      or affiliates who spam the hell out of everybody and get your domain
      blacklisted. No more having to deal with Clickbank, Amazon or whatever
      marketplace you have to deal with and all their stupid regulations because
      of all the crooks who have made it harder for the honest folks.

      Let others deal with all the BS by teaching them how to.

      It's an easier life and one that YOU'VE earned.

      The naysayers are going to scream "bull sh*t...how do we know you've
      earned anything?"

      You don't. But the IRS does, every f*****g April 15th when they bleed me
      dry.

      So believe what you want.

      Ultimately, in the end, you're doing yourself a HUGE disservice with your
      close minded attitude.

      But it's no skin off my nose.

      This Friday I'll be at my friend's store playing MTG instead of worrying about
      what product I have to sell today to keep a roof over my head.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Let me ask a question of those in this thread who believe that people who
        teach only make money from teaching because they honestly can't do anything
        else because if they could, they wouldn't teach.

        Let's say marketer A promised to take you by the hand, step by step and
        walk you through setting up and then running a business where you sold an
        actual product and then, after doing this, you actually made a decent income
        online.

        What would you be willing to pay for such a service?

        Believe it or not, you will get people saying all kinds of things.

        1. I would only pay a percentage of my profits AFTER I start making money.

        2. I would pay thousands of dollars for such training but don't have the
        money so I can only pay a few dollars (few being whatever paltry sum they
        come up with)

        3. I would pay thousands of dollars for such training and do have it to pay.
        Here is my check.

        4. I would pay any amount at all (even though in reality they can't possibly
        do that unless they're already filthy rich)

        And all kinds of answers in between.

        The answer YOU give will depend on many factors.

        1. Your ability to pay. Some people really are not well off and I feel for them.
        If you can't pay, you can't pay. And yes, some people can't pay, especially
        if they're just about making the rent each month. That's a tough rock to
        climb out from under.

        2. Your cynicism level. Some people simply don't believe that a person who
        teaches rather than does really knows anything of value.

        3. Your need for the information. Some people just don't care enough. It's not
        important enough for them to pay for training. They'd rather go the "search
        for it for free" route and use trial and error. It's not so much that they're
        cynical. They just feel they can get to the same place, even if not as fast,
        on their own.

        4. Your trust in the particular person offering the training. Some people do
        believe that training is important and even helpful, do believe it's legit, but
        have no faith or trust in the person offering the training. This is actually a
        very healthy way of approaching the situation. If I go to ANYBODY for help
        for ANYTHING, you better believe that I am going to research that person
        first to see if I can trust them. I have learned this from my own bad experience.

        So, take all of the above and add it all up and you can see that this whole
        issue is a lot more complex than most people realize.

        It isn't a clear case of "IM teachers are BSers because if they weren't they'd
        be doing instead of teaching."

        Truth is, and this is coming from somebody who has done plenty for more
        than 8 years online, I have done plenty...and a lot of it having nothing to
        do with the MMO niche. But doing is a TON of work.

        Teaching is very little work.

        So if you can do and back it up with solid evidence, then why in God's name
        would you NOT want to teach others? Hell, you've earned your stripes and
        gotten your battle scars. You've suffered through the lean years. You've
        banged your head against plenty of stone walls until you FINALLY got it.
        You've worked your 14 hour days and ruined your health.

        You did it all, finally figured out how to actually SELL sh*t and NOW you
        can sit back, relax and ENJOY it.

        So why the hell NOT teach people?

        You've EARNED IT!

        No more researching niches and putting up websites.

        No more building lists and selling products from those websites.

        No more having to bother with outsourcers who don't finish projects on time
        or affiliates who spam the hell out of everybody and get your domain
        blacklisted. No more having to deal with Clickbank, Amazon or whatever
        marketplace you have to deal with and all their stupid regulations because
        of all the crooks who have made it harder for the honest folks.

        Let others deal with all the BS by teaching them how to.

        It's an easier life and one that YOU'VE earned.

        The naysayers are going to scream "bull sh*t...how do we know you've
        earned anything?"

        You don't. But the IRS does, every f*****g April 15th when they bleed me
        dry.

        So believe what you want.

        Ultimately, in the end, you're doing yourself a HUGE disservice with your
        close minded attitude.

        But it's no skin off my nose.

        This Friday I'll be at my friend's store playing MTG instead of worrying about
        what product I have to sell today to keep a roof over my head.

        WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! This is SMOOOOOOOKIN!

        Tell it like it is brother!

        "I paid a heavy price to be me", $27.00 for this knowledge is pittance in comparison, especially when, and you know this happens to you too, some of the people who paid that $27. make thousands of dollars copying my Sh** every day and they didnt have to pay the price.

        I guess if it aint worth nothing else its worth rehashing because its original. lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author jsmithjohnson1
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Let me ask a question of those in this thread who believe that people who
        teach only make money from teaching because they honestly can't do anything
        else because if they could, they wouldn't teach.

        Let's say marketer A promised to take you by the hand, step by step and
        walk you through setting up and then running a business where you sold an
        actual product and then, after doing this, you actually made a decent income
        online.

        What would you be willing to pay for such a service?
        Well I agree with your. Before I pay this guy, I would ask him to give credible evidence that he knows his stuff. I learned the not so easy way that this is imperative to get right up front.

        And then if he says he has been out of the game for a while I would say "how long is a while?"

        and if he says 1 year or two years i would say I don';t know if your product is for me because this game changes fast.

        But Maybe he sells evergreen knowledge that does not change tho. In that case I would say lay it on me, brutha. But if it was not I would have to think really hard about it becuae I have bought some worthless stuff based on hype.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by jsmithjohnson1 View Post

          Well I agree with your. Before I pay this guy, I would ask him to give credible evidence that he knows his stuff. I learned the not so easy way that this is imperative to get right up front.

          And then if he says he has been out of the game for a while I would say "how long is a while?"

          and if he says 1 year or two years i would say I don';t know if your product is for me because this game changes fast.

          But Maybe he sells evergreen knowledge that does not change tho. In that case I would say lay it on me, brutha. But if it was not I would have to think really hard about it becuae I have bought some worthless stuff based on hype.
          You also need to be a good student who can stick and move and think on your feet...or else he will have to hold your hand forever. Take his knowledge and advice but realize that YOU are the key factor to most of it.
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          • Profile picture of the author jsmithjohnson1
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            You also need to be a good student who can stick and move and think on your feet...or else he will have to hold your hand forever. Take his knowledge and advice but realize that YOU are the key factor to most of it.
            u're a smart guy, i can tell, and you clearly you agree with the point that I made about credibility.

            I mean somebody said what about teahcers at school earlier in the thread. I say yeah well that's apples to oranges. (unless you're rtalking about evergreen subjects like copywriting and marketing fundamentals.)

            i mean you can't say "hey i can teach IM because I'm like a college professor that teaches history." everyone would laugh at you and u would certainly need a massive marketing effort to convince anyone that you know what ur doing.

            (i fell for some of these guys before ha ha)

            because teaching history doesn't require that "you have been there and done that". But teaching IM - just for me personally -- i need to know that the teacher has been a "practitioner". You know what I mean, right?

            and yes, woodsy1, i know that if a true IMer is teaching me his methods that it is likely that his techniques (unless they are evergreen) are not going to work as well for me as they did for him because they are on the downslope. but if they work at least 33% percent as well i'm up in the black, right?

            i have spent A LOT of money (upwards of $7k) on IM methods an mentoring. Some were very good and some were crappie. (not the fish - i mean crap as in poo)

            Yes woodsy1 you may be right about some "teachers" they are liars. that's the marketplace tho. you have to discern the real gold from the fool's gold. (a.k.a. frank kern's product the MASS COntrol changed my life and the life of man many many others probably here in this thread. including e brian rose and cdarklock i think but don;t hold me to it but they seem like they follow franks guidance IMHO which is a good thing for everyone to do (no matter about that salty droid.)

            woodsy1 i think you would have a lot of interest if you could systemize your business and teahc others how to duplicate your $600k business. even if they will only make 33% as much as you there will be a lot of takers who will kiss you right on the mouth.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
              Originally Posted by jsmithjohnson1 View Post

              u're a smart guy, i can tell, and you clearly you agree with the point that I made about credibility.

              I mean somebody said what about teahcers at school earlier in the thread. I say yeah well that's apples to oranges. (unless you're rtalking about evergreen subjects like copywriting and marketing fundamentals.)

              i mean you can't say "hey i can teach IM because I'm like a college professor that teaches history." everyone would laugh at you and u would certainly need a massive marketing effort to convince anyone that you know what ur doing.

              (i fell for some of these guys before ha ha)

              because teaching history doesn't require that "you have been there and done that". But teaching IM - just for me personally -- i need to know that the teacher has been a "practitioner". You know what I mean, right?

              and yes, woodsy1, i know that if a true IMer is teaching me his methods that it is likely that his techniques (unless they are evergreen) are not going to work as well for me as they did for him because they are on the downslope. but if they work at least 33% percent as well i'm up in the black, right?

              i have spent A LOT of money (upwards of $7k) on IM methods an mentoring. Some were very good and some were crappie. (not the fish - i mean crap as in poo)

              Yes woodsy1 you may be right about some "teachers" they are liars. that's the marketplace tho. you have to discern the real gold from the fool's gold.

              woodsy1 i think you would have a lot of interest if you could systemize your business and teahc others how to duplicate your $600k business. even if they will only make 33% as much as you there will be a lot of takers who will kiss you right on the mouth.
              I Believe Your Mind And Heart Is In The Right Place...

              And I Can Actually Relate To Your Struggle...Many Of
              Us Can...But The Question YOU Must Ask Yourself, Is...

              "Can I Overcome These Hurdles? "

              "...Despite The $7k Spent, Despite Being Fooled One To
              Many Times By Another Guru...Can I Overcome These
              Challenges?"

              If The Answer Is "Yes!" - With Time, And Hardwok You
              Will.

              For Example...You "Believe" When Someone TEACHES A
              System Or Business It's On The Downslope...And I Can
              Tell You From Experience...I've Operated 2 to 3 Systems
              With Success Doing EXACTLY As It Was Outlined.

              ...2 Others Needed To Be "Modified" By Thinking Outside
              The Box...But Without The Original Blueprint I Could NOT
              Have Had The Foresight To Modify What I Didn't Know.

              You Say You Spent Over $7k...Would It Make You Cringe
              If I Told You I Spent Well Over $15k...How About Those
              Who Were $50k In Debt Without A Pot To Piss In...

              But BECAUSE Of Someone Elses Teaches Paid Off All The
              Debt And Became Millionaires...

              Your Response Is Natural...It's Human Nature To Look Out
              -Side Of Oneself And Find The Cause To The Problem...

              ...But Am I Out Of Line For Asking...

              Are You Responsible For The Cause Of Your Problems?
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              • Profile picture of the author jsmithjohnson1
                Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post

                I Believe Your Mind And Heart Is In The Right Place...

                And I Can Actually Relate To Your Struggle...Many Of
                Us Can...But The Question YOU Must Ask YOURSELF...
                thanks. i tried info products for a while but i felt like i was ripping people off because all i did was outsource a bunch of stuff to oDesk to people. I gave them material that i read elsewhere and i said i want to producte something like this this but use this angle to make it a bit different. and wallah!

                i felt a little icky doing that stuff becuase the IP (intellectual property) wasn;t mine. I mean, technically it was mine because i spun it my way - but you know what i'm saying right?

                I don;t have a problem with others who do it tho. just like i don';t have a problem with goodyear selling tires of walmart selling tires or sears selling tires -- all these damb tires are made in a handful of factories - they just get marketed differently.

                (ok there is a small difference. most people won't by more than two sets of tires for one car at the time. (i always buy two sets cuz i am prone to flats that always happen in the corner that cannot be fixed. i hate to run around with different tired with different tread so i always have a full set of tires in the garage for both cars.)

                people will buy a whole bunch of IM stuff tho. Prob because tires last longer. ha

                but i felt like i could make more money selling shoes and sunglasses online. and i do. through a few different web properties. i maybe could have had success with the IM flavor of the day -- but with the evergreen stuff -- (copywriting and fundamentals) i made regular retail and drop shipping work for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizman
    im doing private coaching with a fellow Warrior and so far ive made a little over $200...its been slow BUT i have been making alot more than most people in under 60 days! so yes it depends on the IM coach but im def seeing good results from this particular coach. good luck Warriors!
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    • Profile picture of the author christopher s
      Hi,

      My thought is that if you have a good teacher and a good student, then everybody wins. When I first started, I invested 300 dollars in a program that gave you domain and hosting for a year as well as a step by step program to teach me how to make money online in niches unrelated to Internet marketing.

      That very first year I made about ten thousand dollars. Since then, I've made about 70k from that site (over 3 years). I've also applied the knowledge to other sites that make me money. I pay them 300 dollars a year.

      Who is the big winner?

      The thing is, the person that runs this sells this same strategy with the domain and hosting to thousands of people, so he makes lots of money too.

      We both win.

      Its just the beauty of capitalism.

      Just my thoughts,

      -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Maurice365
    That is so true. I wonder how many of the teachers actually make money by doing what they are selling? But yes I agree, creating your own product is about the best method to consistently make money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    This thread has been rolling for 5 days now...

    And I can imagine if the troll doesn't lose interest, it could roll for another 5 days...

    So, I got my popcorn:






    Now I can get back to my regularly scheduled activity:

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  • Profile picture of the author Rach72
    My business generates 100% of its revenue online. I do zero paid advertising, I own a forum that generates revenue for my business and am foraying into more of a teaching role instead of the doing role. I have worked hard built the business from 0 to 600-700k a year gross sales beginning in 2006 becoming incorporated, now its best to work smart. Sorry I have ZERO get rich today schemes on the burner.
    What makes you so different from people who have been successful IM and AM who are doing the same?

    The failure rate of the "doers" is through the roof, so what do they do when they have failed at there first bought money making scheme? They buy another. Rinse and repeat

    Scorecard

    Teachers 1
    Doers 0
    When you do start teaching people yourself I bet you'll find out that this is true - but not because of the reasons that you are alluding to (crappy teachers).

    Students are the same, whether it is MMO or learning how to lose weight. The failure rate is high which is no reflection on the teacher, but on the determination and motivation of the student.

    You are in an IM forum so of course all you see is IM 'failures' and 'scams'. Go to a weight loss or relationship forum and you will see the same results.

    Rach

    ps - pass the popcorn
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  • Profile picture of the author jsmithjohnson1
    Woodsy1 i don't appreciate your comments. I am new here as well as to IM. I find lots of goodwill and help. You have been reading this too much --- salty droid. (google it if you don not know it).

    He bashes frank kern and koenings two giants that I look up to for IM.

    Now that I see this place he (salt droid) should take on CDarklock and E Brian Rose. I wonder if he (salty droid) could do anything to them? They will likely crush his face to bits. E. Brain Rose and CDarklock probably would not give an afterthought to him. too easy to beat him.

    Please just don;t come here woodsy1. There is money to be made through marketing on how to market and many other things. You can make money online no matter what they say.
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  • Profile picture of the author clik2000
    Totally agree but the same happens in most fields, most people is making money by selling " how to do secrets", most of them are just a scam from my point of view.
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    Allen

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  • Profile picture of the author jsmithjohnson1
    Ok i forgot to add this fantastic anologie to the other post.

    so a guy reads an ad that says

    "hey! i can show you how to make $500 bucks a day stuffing envelopes."

    cool.

    "just send me $14.95 and a SASE and I'll immediately send you the info on how to make $500 per day stuffing envelopes."

    done and done.

    a few weeks later the guy gets a letter.

    the letter reads,

    "Ok. Here's how to do make $500 per day stuffing envelopes.

    step one: place ads in a magazine or newspapers. use this template. set the price low. around $14.95

    step two: when the letters come in, send them a copy of this letter (the one in your hand)"

    woodsy1 -- i think you have disappeared now -- but that's kind of like IM.

    I tell you how to make money, then show you how to do it using exactly the same method that brought you to me. See? Been done for ages and ages. Nothing wrong with it.

    when the person who sent away for the secret to making $500 per day stuffing envelopes gets the secret he/she paid $14.95 for they react in one of two ways:

    1. dammit what a freaking scam. effin' a hole.
    2. yeehaw. i'm gonna make me some money telling others how to make $500 per day stuffing enevelopes

    which camp are you in woodsy1? (if you are around which it seems that you are not)
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  • Profile picture of the author kaleni
    Yeah I agree I promote info to teach people how to create a work from home business and its a excellent field to promote.
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  • Profile picture of the author Maverick Kevin
    Well I personally know Internet Marketerer who never had any Teaching secrets WSO's or any stuff like that..but depend totally on IM for their living.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    So, what have I missed? Have we resolved the issue?
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  • Profile picture of the author Isaiah Jackson
    I got to admit this was a very interesting thread to read what I didn't understand was

    the fact that woodsy1 has been marketing since 1999

    but does not know why most prices end in 7 :/

    Oh well still a very good read learned a lot

    One thing about us IMers is that we are always learning :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
    This is laughable.

    People need to realize that there's a lot more going on out there than "IM".

    The top guys in "IM" make chump change compared to middle-ground performers in the larger markets.

    Go get an account at KeywordSpy.com and browse through the top-spending advertisers.

    Who's spending $100,000+ per day on PPC?

    Must be the "Teachers", right?

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

      People need to realize that there's a lot more going on out there than "IM".
      Sort of like people need to realise this thread is about the IM niche, no matter what else might be going on out there.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Sort of like people need to realise this thread is about the IM niche, no matter what else might be going on out there.
        Thy quick witt slayeth me constantly.
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      • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Sort of like people need to realise this thread is about the IM niche, no matter what else might be going on out there.
        Not really.

        The OP's point was that the teaching end of it pays more than the actual process.

        Not many gurus are preaching "Sell IM courses". If they are, they're stupid.

        Therefore, my point is valid. We are talking about the profitability of being an "IM Guru" vs. a market leader in another industry.

        And there is no comparison.

        But don't worry, we all still think you're very clever and witty.

        -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
      Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

      This is laughable.

      People need to realize that there's a lot more going on out there than "IM".

      The top guys in "IM" make chump change compared to middle-ground performers in the larger markets.

      Go get an account at KeywordSpy.com and browse through the top-spending advertisers.

      Who's spending $100,000+ per day on PPC?

      Must be the "Teachers", right?

      -Chris
      SShhhhhh! You're liable to wake up the crowd.
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      When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaper7
    Always conduct due dilligence before buying and stay away from marketers that hide their identity.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaper7
    Make sure do your homework before buying and if the seller fails to reveal his or her identity, don't biy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Wilhite
    First, you can only teach when you really know.

    Otherwise, people will catch you and see that you are a fraud.

    It's not bad to teach and yes, it makes a lot of money but
    those who really profit from it are the ones who initially
    had to go through the stuff themselves or paid a lot to
    learn from mentors themselves to learn things the fast way.

    Those who teach without knowing may get away for a while
    but sooner or later, they're going to get busted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    A ton load of people make their living from teaching what
    they are doing or no longer do. All the "how to" books
    in stores?

    And some people ENJOY teaching and helping others. This
    doesn't mean that there aren't unqualified teachers but all
    teachers cannot be branded with the same iron.

    For sure some marketers are guilty of selling their secrets
    AFTER they stop working using evidence from WHEN the
    secrets were working. I've been the victim of that but
    I also learn from a lot of good people.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrick Judge
      Have to say woodsy stud on some nerves...i would like to be makign 600-700k per year...wonder will he share his secret if there is one

      Patrick
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      Patrick

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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    And so another mutant zombie thread rises from the grave.
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  • Profile picture of the author JCorp
    there are moments when the student surpasses the teacher...
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    I remember I went to a man who made $300 million for various companies and is now retired. I mentioned a prominent guru and sent him to the website. He immediately replied to me and ask, why is he selling "how to" material.

    Conclusion: I am torn.
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  • Profile picture of the author RobHiness
    Someone had to say it :-)
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