What is the normal open ratio for emails?

45 replies
Hi

I have an interesting challenge now. Probably the next learning curve. There are 13 subscribers to my Dynamic eBusiness Building site. I have sent out a few emails this week, a few just useful information that I learnt and then a few with a product promotion.

People are not opening my emails. Only one person per campaign is opening the mail. This is about a 10% Open Ratio on the current list size. Is this normal?

Here are the email subjects that I used:

1) Yes, you can create a new online business within 24 hours
2) This is the most important thing you will read
3) Andy Fletcher spills his super-secret SEO strategy - Free
4) It's not about you
5) All you need is a tough teacher

Are they awful subject lines? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Di
#emails #normal #open #ratio
  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

    Hi

    I have an interesting challenge now. Probably the next learning curve. There are 13 subscribers to my Dynamic eBusiness Building site. I have sent out a few emails this week, a few just useful information that I learnt and then a few with a product promotion.

    People are not opening my emails. Only one person per campaign is opening the mail. This is about a 10% Open Ratio on the current list size. Is this normal?

    Here are the email subjects that I used:

    1) Yes, you can create a new online business within 24 hours
    2) This is the most important thing you will read
    3) Andy Fletcher spills his super-secret SEO strategy - Free
    4) It's not about you
    5) All you need is a tough teacher

    Are they awful subject lines? Any advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Di
    Your emails sound like everyone else's in the IM field.

    Ask yourself, how can you differentiate yourself? How can you provide valued content that makes people *want* to read more?

    It's been a very long learning curve for me too, but I've found that adding human interest and talking like a friend and not a marketer definitely helps at times. Sure, I always include my product pitches, mind you...but I also want folks to anticipate learning from me as well.

    If you'd like ideas for creating email headlines, mosey on over to:

    5 Ways To Write Email Headlines That Get Read
    How to Write Magnetic Email Headlines

    and don't forget the Emotional Marketing Value Headline Analyzer - I've been pointing folks there for years.

    Advanced Marketing Institute - Headline Analyzer

    Hope that helps!
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lengley
      Ok .. I have same question but I want to add more.

      In which sequence you send e-mails to your subscribers' list? And, how much it's true that each subscriber is equal to $1 per month? <<-- I am not sure right now but while searching on this forum I came to know about this thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
      Originally Posted by barbling View Post

      Your emails sound like everyone else's in the IM field.

      Ask yourself, how can you differentiate yourself? How can you provide valued content that makes people *want* to read more?

      It's been a very long learning curve for me too, but I've found that adding human interest and talking like a friend and not a marketer definitely helps at times. Sure, I always include my product pitches, mind you...but I also want folks to anticipate learning from me as well.

      If you'd like ideas for creating email headlines, mosey on over to:

      5 Ways To Write Email Headlines That Get Read
      How to Write Magnetic Email Headlines

      and don't forget the Emotional Marketing Value Headline Analyzer - I've been pointing folks there for years.

      Advanced Marketing Institute - Headline Analyzer

      Hope that helps!
      The suggestions in the links you posted are pretty darn good...especially the incomplete thoughts.

      Curiosity, I have found, can be extremely powerful.

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  • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
    Anywhere from 25% to > 100% (from forwards) with my 5 subscribers. Looking at the headlines, subjects indicating something new pertaining to the thing people signed up for get the best open rates.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

    This is about a 10% Open Ratio on the current list size. Is this normal?
    Well, no ... it's very low (as you suspected) but it's a tiny sample-size and doesn't necessarily mean too much. You really need at least 100 people on a list to be able to monitor open-rates meaningfully.

    Are you sending HTML, plain-text, or both?

    Only HTML open-rates can be monitored, really. At least, plain-text open-rates can be monitored only when people also click a link inside the email. (I'm just wondering whether it's possible that your figures aren't reliable?)

    It's true that title lines are one of the factors that determine open-rates, but (contrary to popular belief) they're a really minor, "late-stage" one: where the traffic came from, how people came to opt in, what they got back from opting in, their expectations and especially the extent to which what they received was designed to ensure a high open-rate are the main things.

    I'd better not comment on the actual titles you've used, since it's clear that you're in the "internet marketing advice" market, and I'm delighted to say that sending emails is to subscribers in that market has no part of my experience at all! I do suspect very strongly that that market is going to have far lower open-rates, overall, than almost any other, though.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Well, no ... it's very low (as you suspected) but it's a tiny sample-size and doesn't necessarily mean too much. You really need at least 100 people on a list to be able to monitor open-rates meaningfully.
      That's really important. Open rates are statistics, and statistics don't work too well on small sample sizes. That's true on anything, whether it's engagement on content or figuring out how many blue cars exist based on a parking lot.
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    • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Are you sending HTML, plain-text, or both?

      I'd better not comment on the actual titles you've used, since it's clear that you're in the "internet marketing advice" market, and I'm delighted to say that sending emails is to subscribers in that market has no part of my experience at all! I do suspect very strongly that that market is going to have far lower open-rates, overall, than almost any other, though.
      Hi Alexa,

      I am only sending HTML.

      This particular site is my site that helps people with the techie stuff but I use it for my affiliate marketing too, so yes it is aimed at the IM market which is very busy to say the least

      If I can get it right on this site, then I have a really good chance of getting it to work in my less competitive niches. Good training ground

      Di
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      • Profile picture of the author mgkimsal
        As others have said, the numbers are too small to be meaningful. Are you able to track unique user opens/clicks? If someone opened the same email twice on two days, does that count as 2 opens or one?

        I've got two lists on similar topics that are around 3500 each. I send plaintext and HTML to each, and typically can track about 15-20% opening, and a different 15-20% clicking - some of the opens don't get counted because of blocking or plaintext or whatever, and there's some overlap between the opens and clicks, but on average, I'm seeing between 20-25% responses (open or click or both).

        Mailchimp has some insight in to this topic as well: Email Marketing Stats, Benchmarks and Research | MailChimp
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        • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
          Originally Posted by mgkimsal View Post

          As others have said, the numbers are too small to be meaningful. Are you able to track unique user opens/clicks? If someone opened the same email twice on two days, does that count as 2 opens or one?
          Hi mgkimsal,

          My mailing program tracks unique user opens so it tells me how many times each subscriber opened the email and the number of times they clicked any links within the email.

          I understand about the sample being too small but I have learnt a whole lot already by asking the question

          Thanks again for your help.
          Di
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          • Profile picture of the author mgkimsal
            Sure - asking questions does help, and gives you ideas about what you can be doing while the list is growing.

            Something you may notice too is the same item being opened multiple times - I found that sometimes this was just repeat viewings, other times it was because it was forwarded. Harder to tell, even when looking at the IPs of the opens. Did the same person log on from home and then work and view it twice? Or the reverse - 5 opens in 15 minutes from the same IP? Perhaps email being fwded at an office.

            Good luck!
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          • Profile picture of the author mgkimsal
            Diana:

            I just tried to subscribe to your opt-in.

            A) The confirmation email went to my gmail spam folder.

            B) The email starts off with "Hi Diana" (as if it's written to you)

            C) Final email after confirmation comes to spam too. :/
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            • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
              Originally Posted by mgkimsal View Post

              Diana:

              I just tried to subscribe to your opt-in.

              A) The confirmation email went to my gmail spam folder.

              B) The email starts off with "Hi Diana" (as if it's written to you)

              C) Final email after confirmation comes to spam too. :/
              Oh my ... that is SO EMBARRASSING about the "Hi Diana" bit

              I just fixed it. Sheeze Diana!!!!

              I am aware of the Gmail problem. I have submitted a support ticket to Imnicamail. I just have to send them some information about the mails but it is happening everybody who signs up with a gmail account.

              Thank you so much for checking for me. The good thing about the list being so small is that I have only humiliated myself in front of a very tiny group of people :rolleyes:

              Di

              P.S. I only changed the "From" address on the Confirmation email and the Link to the Download email now. Completely forgot about those two. Only changed it on my new campaigns.

              Sigh ... I live and learn
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              • Profile picture of the author mgkimsal
                Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

                Oh my ... that is SO EMBARRASSING about the "Hi Diana" bit

                I just fixed it. Sheeze Diana!!!!

                I am aware of the Gmail problem. I have submitted a support ticket to Imnicamail. I just have to send them some information about the mails but it is happening everybody who signs up with a gmail account.

                Thank you so much for checking for me. The good thing about the list being so small is that I have only humiliated myself in front of a very tiny group of people :rolleyes:

                Di
                NP - we all make mistakes - this is how you learn. The fact that you've already taken steps to fix it is great!
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    Thanks Barbling,

    I ran the subjects through the Headline Analyzer and these were the EMV results

    1) Yes, you can create a new online business within 24 hours - 27%
    2) This is the most important thing you will read -22%
    3) Andy Fletcher spills his super-secret SEO strategy - Free - 44%
    4) It's not about you - 50%
    5) All you need is a tough teacher - 42.68%

    This is what the site says
    "And for comparison, most professional copywriters' headlines will have 30%-40% EMV Words in their headlines, while the most gifted copywriters will have 50%-75% EMV words in headlines."

    Based on that, the first two were bad, the last three not bad.

    Great links by the way. Thank you. Learnt a lot. Will try and put that into practice.

    Di
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  • Profile picture of the author yaheem
    13 subscribers can not give you any reliable data about open rates, and certainly not enough for a split test. My advice is to forget about the stats for now until you have like 100 subscribers.

    In your case and in the IM or work from home niche, probably the other 12 who didn't open your emails are all using unintended emails or are just bombarded with other marketer's massages all the time.

    Don't rush the results ... give it sometime to grow.

    As for your question about the normal open rate, from my results in the IM niche it's between 9 and 14%.

    One thing you can do to increase your open rate is to put your messages in the form of a free pdf report and send them the download link with a message subject like "{firstname!} download this new pdf report about ..." (always personalize the subject).

    I hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author PatriciaJ
      If you just send html your spam rate will be higher and the emails will go to junk for some of your subscribers and mean less opens obviously. Send html and plain and your spam rating will drop and there will be less chance of them going to junk.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Di,

    Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

    Any advice would be appreciated.
    As others have already mentioned there are many factors
    that can influence open rates.

    One factor that many people overlook is the from address.
    Sending your emails from a free address such as Yahoo,
    Hotmail or Gmail will have an adverse effect on your open
    rate.

    You should get better results if you send from your own
    domain.

    I love it that you're tracking your open rates and taking the
    time to look for ways to improve your results. :-)

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      One factor that many people overlook is the from address.
      Sending your emails from a free address such as Yahoo,
      Hotmail or Gmail will have an adverse effect on your open
      rate.

      You should get better results if you send from your own
      domain.
      Thanks John,

      I actually changed the "From" to my own domain email instead of the Gmail one I had before because of that very thought. Glad to know that I was on the right track with that

      Thanks for the input. Appreciate it.
      Di
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      • Profile picture of the author mgkimsal
        Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

        Thanks John,

        I actually changed the "From" to my own domain email instead of the Gmail one I had before because of that very thought. Glad to know that I was on the right track with that

        Thanks for the input. Appreciate it.
        Di
        The email I got from your system still has your gmail address.

        You can't necessarily just change "from" addresses with impunity. You can certainly change them, but many mail servers will check whether the server it's accepting mail from has authority to send email on behalf of the indicated domain (domainkeys and spf are the two main schemes to determine this). It's an effort to combat spam. There's nothing stopping me from writing an email "from: president@whitehouse.gov" - loads of spam fakes out the 'from' and 'reply' addresses all the time. Schemes like SPF offer a way to check the veracity of the sending server and mail from address combination.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    If I were you, I would not make any changes yet unless you are getting unsubscribes or people are emailing with negative feedback.

    Why? Because your sample size of 13 is so small. Plus, it also would depend on the quality of the subscribers to your list.

    If you are promoting a lot for something free and then they get the something free the first email, well, that may be all those people wanted in the first place.

    To really evaluate this good enough to give you any sound advice, I'd have to know what the promotion was for the sign ups, what you gave away and what the first email said.

    However, even with that said, I would still wait until I had more people on the list and started getting unsubscribes before I'd make any changes.
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    • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
      Originally Posted by TopKat22 View Post

      If I were you, I would not make any changes yet unless you are getting unsubscribes or people are emailing with negative feedback.

      If you are promoting a lot for something free and then they get the something free the first email, well, that may be all those people wanted in the first place.

      To really evaluate this good enough to give you any sound advice, I'd have to know what the promotion was for the sign ups, what you gave away and what the first email said.
      Hi TopKat,

      No unsubscribes yet The optin was for a freebie blueprint on how to create an information product.

      Your point about people just signing up for the freebie is probably the case especially as this particular niche is so highly competitive.

      Di
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    First off, ask yourself how they got on your list. How does the subject line and sender relate to that?

    The cardinal sin of list building is to get people on the list without the expectation that you're going to contact them.

    Eg Instead of your squeeze page saying "Sign up to get free THING now" say "Sign up to get free THING now and receive my awesomely helpful newsletter that will do XYZ for you"

    If they got on the list by purchasing stuff. Did you send them a follow up email saying "We've added you to our awesome newsletter where we'll stay in touch about product updates and other useful information"?

    Once you've set the expectation, you need to deliver on it.

    My 7.5k buyers list generated 5k clicks to my last launch simply because I set the expectation that I will contact them about awesome stuff and then have consistently delivered on that over and over again. Product updates, notifications about new products in the range and highly related products that should meet their goals. Please note that doesn't mean you have to promise a ton of useful free stuff and never sell. 90% of my emails have stuff for sale. But you do have to set an expectation and deliver on it.

    Kudos for taking the time to actually test and track real numbers. Most people never do it and wonder why they never get better.

    Hope that helps,

    Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I don't think 10% is really that far off. I have had 25-30% but before with a 300k list I was getting about 8-10%.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    anywhere from 10-40% but the problem is that you only have 13 people on your list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Anderson
    Hi Diana.
    from your fellow Johannesburger here.

    I had an aweber account for nearly three years, and my subscribers fluctuated from between 280 and 500, I must admit that I never tried very hard to build the list properly, because i hate all those "marketing" emails myself.

    I had opens from between 0% and as high as 50%, normally at around 20 to 25%.

    I would like to ask you this, how many of the emails that you get do you open?
    I probably only open 2 or 3 % and I am on quite a lot of list of marketers that I trust (John Taylor above is one of them) But when I am busy - I very seldom bother to read what I am being sent.
    Some of these lists like Potpie Girl, I have been on for 2,5 years, but I still dont read them all.
    So my point is not to worry about the open rates, just carry on split testing like you obviously are, and you will get the maximum out of your list.

    By the way - I closed my Aweber recently, and my "list" is now all opted in to my feedburner account, and growing quite nicely thank you!

    Good luck with it all

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Diana...

    Your headlines are okay. They could be a lot better though. This one for example, "Yes, you can create a new online business within 24 hours" is probably getting picked up by Spam filters. And with all due respect to Andy Fletcher, I don't know who he is (I'm not a big IMer) so the name's not a grabber unless you do.

    I like mystery in my email headlines. Stuff like: If I'd Only Known This One Simple Thing When I Started...

    It's often a mistake to market based on personal preferences but I'd open an email with that header.

    IM folks are subject to a barrage of 'noise' day in and day out. So you've gotta make more noise than everyone else put together if you want to be heard.

    Here's another: Marketing success secrets I learned from my cat. Now, I could actually write some intelligent stuff around that headline because I once had a cat who was a true warrior. He was always able to get what he wanted. He was a master persuader.

    And if you start making your messages interesting and different in such a way (not necessarily with cats) people are going to WANT to see stuff from you. Do yourself a favor and get on Paul Meyers' list. He usually has very compelling headlines. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    Thanks Rob and Charles

    Appreciate the new feedback. Rob, to answer your question - most of them but that's because I am only subscribed to a few. Did a spring clean a while back on my subscriptions.

    Charles, I am in fact on Paul's list and he does have great headlines.

    I might use the idea of "cats" but change it to my kids because they truly are masters at never taking "No" for an answer

    Di
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucas Becker
    Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

    Hi

    I have an interesting challenge now. Probably the next learning curve. There are 13 subscribers to my Dynamic eBusiness Building site. I have sent out a few emails this week, a few just useful information that I learnt and then a few with a product promotion.

    People are not opening my emails. Only one person per campaign is opening the mail. This is about a 10% Open Ratio on the current list size. Is this normal?

    Here are the email subjects that I used:

    1) Yes, you can create a new online business within 24 hours
    2) This is the most important thing you will read
    3) Andy Fletcher spills his super-secret SEO strategy - Free
    4) It's not about you
    5) All you need is a tough teacher

    Are they awful subject lines? Any advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Di
    Hey, I would split test more headings so you know what works best for your traffic. Also try tesing a formal style against more of a casual style to see how people will react. Try playing around with capital letters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Iriss
    Normal email open rate is 0

    Anything else you get above that would be considered weird as the amount will depend on your skill as a writer of your content and Internet marketer
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  • Profile picture of the author Brendan Vraibel
    I, too, have had some trouble with this in the past and progressed at a snail's pace for a long time. I consider myself far from witty so trying to be a comedian with only a handful of words was a big deterrent for me getting my emails opened.

    Something that I found worked pretty well for me was creating the subject line first and writing my email based off of that instead of the other way around. When you think about it, the subject is the most important part anyways. If you can't get them to open the email it may as well be a blank document inside.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rodger Hyatt
    In regards to the open rate of emails...

    Keep in mind that viewing an HTML email does not always constitute an open.
    Let me explain..
    Some clients can be configured to NOT automatically load images of html emails.
    When this is done, your autoresponder will not register an OPEN.

    There are still very many people that use outlook/thunderbird/etc to get their emails and these clients can be configured to open text ONLY emails.
    This is another way that you will NOT detect an open.

    Just a hint towards distracting you from putting too much faith and concern in the OPENING of an email..

    It is not a very accurate system..

    I would advise you count unique clicks from your own self hosted tracking script.

    (my 2 cents)

    ...Rodger Hyatt
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    • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
      Originally Posted by Rodger Hyatt View Post

      I would advise you count unique clicks from your own self hosted tracking script.
      ...Rodger Hyatt
      Hi Roger,

      Thanks for that. Quick question please. What do you mean by self hosted tracking script? I use Google Analytics and it shows me when someone has clicked on a link from an email.

      Is that what you mean?

      Di
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      • Profile picture of the author Rodger Hyatt
        Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

        Hi Roger,

        Thanks for that. Quick question please. What do you mean by self hosted tracking script? I use Google Analytics and it shows me when someone has clicked on a link from an email.

        Is that what you mean?

        Di
        There are plenty of link tracking/cloaking scripts everywhere on the web..

        Using them gives you more accurate and detailed information than the sluggish google analytics.

        This way you can generate a specific link to go inside your email.. Assuming that you are trying to get your subscribers to click on a link.
        When they click the link, the tracking script will hold information for you, depending on which script you have purchased and installed.

        I use my own. It allows me to track the time of day my clicks came in, what country they came from, how many unique clicks, and show me the referring URL they got the link from as well.

        If you are simply trying to send a broadcast email to your subscribers with only information and no links to click, then this script idea would not accomplish the goal.

        Sorry if i assumed and brought this conversation to a useless point

        Was only trying to urge anyone judging the effectiveness of their subjects and email by their autoresponders "Open Rates" to be more accurate by using a tracking script.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amod Oke
    3 things you could do:
    1) Try with the subscribers name {firstname!}
    2) Figure out 'where' your subscribers are? Rookies, intermediates? And write subjects accordingly.
    3) Try completely different subject lines, something absolutely not related to marketing and 'selling'.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Wilson
    This solely depends on your relationship with subscribers.

    I've got 80%+ and 60% click through by having a new fresh list with eager subscribers. Older lists tend to perform less efficiently as your trust factor will be lower.

    Daniel
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by Daniel Wilson View Post

      Older lists tend to perform less efficiently as your trust factor will be lower.
      If your trust level is going DOWN with time, then you're
      doing something wrong.

      Trust is something that should INCREASE with time, not
      decrease.

      Regarding open rates, here's some interesting studies on
      open rates by AWeber and MailChimp.

      How open rates vary by list size:

      Open Rates By List Size (no affil.)

      How open rates vary by industry:

      Research | MailChimp (no affil.)

      However, rather than comparing open rates between
      providers and different markets, I prefer to monitor the
      open rates of my own lists and see how they vary over
      time.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
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      .

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      • Profile picture of the author drmani
        Yes, SUBJECT lines have some impact on 'open' rates, Di.

        My latest today is:

        "If I held a gun to your head, and..."

        :lol:

        But, imho, it isn't the most important factor.

        That's the content and consistency .

        Deliver quality content - and do it consistently - and
        your subscribers learn to look for your email in their
        inbox.

        No, they won't always buy from you, or even click on
        your links, BUT they'll open your emails, and read most
        of them.

        That's a reward in today's "attention economy".

        The reward of ATTENTION - which then evolves into TRUST.

        Both are precious. Worth far more than what you 'earn' from
        your list in the short term.

        Two IMPORTANT factors that affect 'open' rate are:

        * your email delivery rates
        * your subscribers

        If your delivery system isn't capable of getting your
        emails into inboxes, or your content triggers any filters,
        you may end up in the spam blackholes of cyberspace

        If your subscribers are the 'wrong' kind (you define
        what that means for your list), then the best emails
        won't elicit a response

        Hope this helps - in some little way

        All success
        Dr.Mani

        P.S. - Years back, I ASKED my list what made them open
        and read my emails.

        The most frequent answer was sobering (and flattering):

        It was:

        "Seeing that it came from YOU"



        The bad news? It takes time to hit that tipping point.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rodger Hyatt
    You could divert your focus on other useful things other than 'open rates'..
    like;
    toenail clipping toss contest
    refrigerator dairy expiration dates
    3rd cousins birth date

    The above mentioned examples will provide you a much more fruitful feeling of 'time well spent' and yield better results.


    All joking aside, your open rates are going to continuously fluctuate depending on too many things.
    Write a good relevant subject, write a good email, go to paypal and keep hitting refresh, that's where your results will be monitored.

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  • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
    Mark Brownlow has a guide to understanding open rates posted at EmailMarketingReports.com which might be helpful for some.

    Regards,
    Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
      No Roger, not a useless point. It's good advice and I am going to try and find one that works. Thanks

      Originally Posted by Rodger Hyatt View Post

      Sorry if i assumed and brought this conversation to a useless point

      Was only trying to urge anyone judging the effectiveness of their subjects and email by their autoresponders "Open Rates" to be more accurate by using a tracking script.
      Thanks Dr Mani. I do realise that, but sometimes I get a bit despondent

      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      The bad news? It takes time to hit that tipping point.
      Thanks Jim. Will take a look now.

      Originally Posted by JimDucharme View Post

      Mark Brownlow has a guide to understanding open rates posted at EmailMarketingReports.com which might be helpful for some.

      Regards,
      Jim
      Thank you all for some really great new insights. I have run out of "Thanks" again

      Di
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  • Profile picture of the author Dann Vicker
    Typical average is 15-25% for some of my list. Some highly targeted lists though get up to 30% sometimes, while some others do go down to 10%
    Signature

    Looking for high quality solo ad traffic? 200-2000 clicks available/day. Testimonials here. PM me

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