Pen Name vs Real Name (being judged as a "scammer")

43 replies
I have this marketing blog - FirstnameMiddlename.com

But I want to play in a non-business market and train athletes simultaneaously.

Here's the problem..

I'm terrified of being exposed as a marketer and called a scammer.

We've seen it a few times.. some people find out that "Pen Name" is a marketer and not a genuine guru. They create a thread and call him a "scammer".

I am the face of the business in the niche I'm talking about, because I truly am passionate and know my stuff here. So I know I'm not a scammer. But when they find posts where I teach how to upsell customers, I guess their scam radars will turn on.

Here are some options I came up with...

Option 1)
Marketing brand: Firstname Surname
Niche brand: Firstname Middlename

Option 2)
Marketing brand: Firstname Surname
Niche brand: Pen Name - Firstame Middle/surname-variation (like Matt Deangelo instead of Matt Davids)

Option 3)
My real name in both niches. Like Mike Joyner in Simpleology and in marketing, be honest about it and hopefully earn trust and respect.

I'd be open for more suggestions and happy to hear your thoughts about this.
#judged #pen #real #scammer
  • Profile picture of the author centextkt
    I always believe that it's never the wrong time to do the right thing. Honesty, honesty, honesty...

    Option 3 is the ONLY way to go...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5131341].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Looking4Mentor
    Originally Posted by cashins View Post

    Here are some options I came up with...

    Option 1)
    Marketing brand: Firstname Surname
    Niche brand: Firstname Middlename

    Option 2)
    Marketing brand: Firstname Surname
    Niche brand: Pen Name - Firstame Middle/surname-variation (like Matt Deangelo instead of Matt Davids)

    Option 3)
    My real name in both niches. Like Mike Joyner in Simpleology and in marketing, be honest about it and hopefully earn trust and respect.

    I'd be open for more suggestions and happy to hear your thoughts about this.
    Sounds like you've really put much thought into this. I can see the point to both. Real name is always key- however, if you are trying to protect your assets or other life may conflict, it would be good to have a pen name. Offline authors use pen names often... maybe onliners need to get with the times

    Good luck... the final decision is yours.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5131363].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author stevenalowe
    Originally Posted by cashins View Post

    I have this marketing blog - FirstnameMiddlename.com

    But I want to play in a non-business market and train athletes simultaneaously.

    Here's the problem..

    I'm terrified of being exposed as a marketer and called a scammer.

    We've seen it a few times.. some people find out that "Pen Name" is a marketer and not a genuine guru. They create a thread and call him a "scammer".

    I am the face of the business in the niche I'm talking about, because I truly am passionate and know my stuff here. So I know I'm not a scammer. But when they find posts where I teach how to upsell customers, I guess their scam radars will turn on.

    Here are some options I came up with...

    Option 1)
    Marketing brand: Firstname Surname
    Niche brand: Firstname Middlename

    Option 2)
    Marketing brand: Firstname Surname
    Niche brand: Pen Name - Firstame Middle/surname-variation (like Matt Deangelo instead of Matt Davids)

    Option 3)
    My real name in both niches. Like Mike Joyner in Simpleology and in marketing, be honest about it and hopefully earn trust and respect.

    I'd be open for more suggestions and happy to hear your thoughts about this.
    The question is: are you a scammer?

    No? Are you doing useful work in marketing? Selling products and services that you believe in, that help the customer?

    Yes? Are you proud of your achievements in marketing?

    Yes?

    Then option three.

    There are occasionally reasons to use a pseudonym. I don't see any above.

    Just my opinion - but I practice what I preach! -

    I run a consulting and custom software development business. I play guitar and keyboards in a rock/jazz jam band. I wrote a book about my adventures at South by Southwest. I wrote an ebook about landing pages. I'm working on a book about object-oriented programming.

    I believe in what I'm doing in all 5 niches, thus, I don't use 5 different names.

    You cannot change people's ignorance. Teaching marketers about upsells is no different than teaching quarterbacks about power sprinting. They're both useful tactics, appropriate in some contexts.

    By contrast, using a pseudonym - to some degree - implies that you are trying to hide something; it's suspicious.

    But hey, do what makes you comfortable!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5131405].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lisha5684
      Originally Posted by stevenalowe View Post


      I run a consulting and custom software development business. I play guitar and keyboards in a rock/jazz jam band. I wrote a book about my adventures at South by Southwest. I wrote an ebook about landing pages. I'm working on a book about object-oriented programming.

      I believe in what I'm doing in all 5 niches, thus, I don't use 5 different names.

      You cannot change people's ignorance. Teaching marketers about upsells is no different than teaching quarterbacks about power sprinting. They're both useful tactics, appropriate in some contexts.

      By contrast, using a pseudonym - to some degree - implies that you are trying to hide something; it's suspicious.

      But hey, do what makes you comfortable!
      Yeah, I have many very unrelated interests as well. It doesn't mean I can't be good at all of them and teach something of value to people in each of those niches.
      Signature

      -Start Getting Noticed On Twitter: http://twonderwoman.com
      -Visit my blog: http://blogandretire.com/blog - Tips for blogging, social media marketing, and online business.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5138031].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author stevenalowe
      Addendum: it has come to my attention that one big reason for using a pen name is so that your audiences don't get confused. This is especially true for books on amazon et al where people can easily list all books by the same author.

      So though I have some "serious" books under my own name, when I start publishing science fiction I'll probably use the pen name Steven El - and I may publish marketing books under the pen name Mark Edding or Polly Math. This is so fans of science fiction don't see marketing and adventure books in the same list.

      There's nothing scammy about it.

      [With a hat tip to Johnny Andrews]

      Originally Posted by stevenalowe View Post

      The question is: are you a scammer?

      No? Are you doing useful work in marketing? Selling products and services that you believe in, that help the customer?

      Yes? Are you proud of your achievements in marketing?

      Yes?

      Then option three.

      There are occasionally reasons to use a pseudonym. I don't see any above.

      Just my opinion - but I practice what I preach! -

      I run a consulting and custom software development business. I play guitar and keyboards in a rock/jazz jam band. I wrote a book about my adventures at South by Southwest. I wrote an ebook about landing pages. I'm working on a book about object-oriented programming.

      I believe in what I'm doing in all 5 niches, thus, I don't use 5 different names.

      You cannot change people's ignorance. Teaching marketers about upsells is no different than teaching quarterbacks about power sprinting. They're both useful tactics, appropriate in some contexts.

      By contrast, using a pseudonym - to some degree - implies that you are trying to hide something; it's suspicious.

      But hey, do what makes you comfortable!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5397908].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        There are many reasons to use pen names. Mine is that my birth name (the one I use here) is more common than I ever imagined.

        I just did a quick search for "John McCabe", and according to the first page of results, I'm a classical composer, expert on vitamins, a popular author, a lawyer and even a murder victim.

        I write on multiple subjects and market in multiple niches. Using pen names avoids adding to the confusion.

        And as far as I am concerned, every pen name I use is one of my "real" names...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5398063].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jamesrich1
    Honesty is always the best policy. I am my real name every place I go online. If you are doing something unethical then I can understand your paranoia.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5131422].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ScottAdmer
    Many authors and actors use pen names or stage names without any problems. I see no problems with using one online.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132054].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TravisVOX
      There is NOTHING wrong with using a pen name. Any thoughts that not using a real name will limit your success or expose you is hogwash.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132070].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert X
    I swear,, my real name is Robert X
    Signature

    [

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132128].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
    You can use your real name, or a pen name. If someone asks if both names are yours - don't like about it. If someone is going to call you a scammer then they are going to do it regardless of what names you use. Anyone who is in IM for long will be called that - it may be from them actually being a scammer or it could be from a simple misunderstanding with a customer. It all boils down to how you handle the situation when it happens.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132157].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Many people use pen names for different niches, but if you are really worried about them finding out that is not your name, go with your real name.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132182].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jeresteem99
    Don't worry so much about Pen Name, lot of internet Marketer use Pen name of the their sake.
    Signature

    Get FREE secret from Self Esteem Tips and Depression.
    Self Esteem Worksheets - A *36 worksheet FREE to download! --> Self Esteem for Kids ***** Building Self Esteem

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132357].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rusty1027
    It's perfectly acceptable to use a pen name - in fact EzineArticles explains how you can use pen names to build brand...

    Solidify Your Brand with Alternate Author Names
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132502].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Have you ever heard of Richard Bachman?

    How about John Swithen?

    No?

    Are you sure about that?

    These are pen names used by the best-selling, horror-writer Stephen King.

    I hope you are wrong that people believe that anyone who writes under a pen name is a scammer...

    I write under more than three dozen pen names myself.

    I started writing under pen names in 2004, because I am a writer with multiple interests...

    I am most known for my writing about online marketing and SEO... Strangely, when I started writing in different niches, people complained to me about how I was wasting their time!!!

    One lady summed it up well when she said:

    "I open and read your articles, because you write about those things near-and-dear to my heart."

    "When I see your articles, I get excited, and I cannot wait to see what wisdom you will give to me today..."

    "But when I open your niche articles, I realize that I have no interest in those things, and it pisses me off that you wasted my time!!"
    I listened to my audience...

    And since hearing those complaints, whenever I change the niche I am writing about, I change pen names.

    I have up to 5 pen names in every niche I write about, and I create content in about 10 niches... Plus, as I noted previously, I have been using pen names for 7 years.

    If that means people see me as a scammer, then so be it... But the reality is that no one knows what niches I write about or who my pen names really are... Shoot... To be honest, I have to double-check my records whenever I want to remember who all of my pen names are...

    I'd tell you what my pen names are, but if I did that, I might have to kill this thread...
    Signature
    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132546].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Deidra575
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132577].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by Deidra575 View Post

      I always believe that it's never the wrong time to do the right thing. Honesty, honesty, honesty...

      Option 3 is the ONLY way to go...

      Originally Posted by centextkt View Post

      I always believe that it's never the wrong time to do the right thing. Honesty, honesty, honesty...

      Option 3 is the ONLY way to go...

      Are this 2 accounts linked?

      or the 2nd one is using an auto bot [not transformers lol] to post?
      Signature
      Pain is a perception, so is defeat & happiness!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132636].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

        Are this 2 accounts linked?

        or the 2nd one is using an auto bot [not transformers lol] to post?

        The second one is a bot or an idiot or both...

        Check his profile... He has done it to at least 3 people in 3 threads, and I have reported 3 of his posts...

        And now he/she is banned... Rock on!!!
        Signature
        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5132648].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by cashins View Post

    We've seen it a few times.. some people find out that "Pen Name" is a marketer and not a genuine guru. They create a thread and call him a "scammer".
    If you're not a genuine guru, but you market yourself as one, then you ARE a scammer.

    Being a marketer has nothing to do with it. Not being what you market yourself as does.

    Will people call you names either way? Sure. But they're stupid and they suck, so who cares?
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5133282].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
    I can understand the reasoning in using pen names for different markets. I only use 4 myself, but it's mainly so that I can track which of my 'personas' is having the best results, or to be better organised in different sectors.

    However, when I'm talking to my peers, friends and colleagues, such as in the Forum, I always use my real name.

    Yup, that really is my name up there.
    Signature
    Now where did I put that pencil?

    Time for a cuppa.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5133327].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      As so many others have said, above, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using a pen-name, as long as it isn't "material" to readers/potential customers.

      If you have a health niche, and you use the name "Dr Gregory House" and you're not a doctor, that's material (and wrong in a number of ways) but if you decide just to be Fred Flintstone, or whoever, there's nothing wrong with that in itself.

      Countless marketers in more than one niche use pen-names.

      I have 8 niches and 8 pen-names, because I don't want the readers of my cauliflower soup recipe articles to discover that I also write articles on domestic desalination technology and make the mistake of assuming that because I'm knowledgeable on two subjects, my credibility's called into question by my being "just a marketer who'll write about anything". That would mislead them, when the reality is that I do have plenty of valuable information to share on both those subjects, and it's easier for many people to appreciate that without knowing that I have 6 or 7 other niches as well.

      I use my real name here, and in a couple of other forums, and I used to use it when I had my writing business (so that I could get paid, via PayPal, of course!). For all my niche marketing, I use pen-names.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5133371].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    Originally Posted by cashins View Post

    Here's the problem..

    I'm terrified of being exposed as a marketer
    I read this far....saw your biggest problem...

    I am proud to be a marketer...DAMNED PROUD OF IT.

    Besides...

    If it is good enough for authors Silence Dogood, Mark Twain, Boz, Lewis Carroll, and Paul French...who am I to argue..

    List of pen names - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Signature
    Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5133438].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Cazzam
    I think the bottom line is that you have to be happy with the decision you make - you probably know deep down what you'd prefer, so stick with your gut instinct. There's nothing wrong with using either a pen name or your real name, as long as your intentions are good and you believe in what you're doing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5136957].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cashins
    I'm thanking all of you for the help! I really appreciate it.

    Different opinions, but I'm getting closer towards a decision.

    I want to make it clear that I'm not doing anything "unethically". I have a very good success story related to the product I'm creating and I know my recipe will produce results. But I have to change my perception of marketing/selling.

    It's just that my belief system says that some people outside of the marketing circle may think that conscious marketing/selling is unethical. The "scam" word is overused and gets thrown out for the need of attention, especially on niche forums where they're used to sharing secrets for free. And when they discuss a priced program, I've seen they called the program a scam or other variations of that word.

    I believe that when people find out that my name is not really "pen name", at least a few of them will think "he's hiding something" and their trust in me is threatened. One scam entitlement to my name from one forum post is enough to lose a bunch of sales, even though it's just a misunderstanding or an exaggeration.

    I read a book title once, "A happy customer tells three people, an unhappy customer tells a thousand" and it deserves a few seconds of reflection.

    After reflection and and advice from all the nice people here, I think it's gonna be my real name. Not that using a pen name is bad, I just feel more comfortable with my own name, especially in this niche. The thing is though, that I have a less good-looking Scandinavian surname
    Signature


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5136984].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by cashins View Post

      I read a book title once, "A happy customer tells three people, an unhappy customer tells a thousand" and it deserves a few seconds of reflection.



      According to wedding planners and funeral directors, the average person knows at most 300 people.



      I have had 3 people call my business line looking to speak to one of my pen names...

      In all three cases, I simply explained that I wrote the articles under a pen name. All three hired me anyway.
      Signature
      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5137315].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        The trick is to keep all of your pen names separated into widely disparate niches, websites, and contact info so no one can track you down and expose these identities.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5137629].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          The trick is to keep all of your pen names separated into widely disparate niches, websites, and contact info so no one can track you down and expose these identities.
          Little old ladies are not gunning to expose the person that sold her a knitting book.

          Retired postal employees are not looking to expose the guy that sold him plans to build a birdhouse.

          The only people that I know of that are actively looking to "expose" people (for no apparent reason) are other marketers.
          Signature

          Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5138580].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

            Little old ladies are not gunning to expose the person that sold her a knitting book.

            Retired postal employees are not looking to expose the guy that sold him plans to build a birdhouse.

            The only people that I know of that are actively looking to "expose" people (for no apparent reason) are other marketers.
            It could be a drag on sales if the same person who sells knitting books also sells UFO books, birdhouse plans, hunting supplies, criminal law books, funeral products, condoms, pornography, medical equipment, MLM ...
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5398168].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
      Originally Posted by cashins View Post

      It's just that my belief system says that some people outside of the marketing circle may think that conscious marketing/selling is unethical.
      Is that why one of the most popular sections of Superbowl Sunday is the advertisements?

      Is that why Amazon is one of the most visited sites on the internet?

      Is that why one of the most read section of the Sunday newspaper is the advertising inserts?

      Conscious marketing, or selling, is simply informing people of an option to purchase in a compelling or entertaining way which helps them overcome their procrastination. In almost every case the person "wanted" to buy, but were using excuses to avoid making the purchase which could benefit them. By helping to overcome their objections/excuses you are providing invaluable service...
      Signature
      Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5138320].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bbonus
    don't worry about the scandinavian origin of your last name! obama is the american president - can't think of a worse last name than that (due to the associations with osama), so i think you're good! my last name is 'petersen' - also scandinavian in origin, and it hasn't hurt me yet...
    Signature
    Micro Niche Sites! <-- Get your very own money making website...now!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5137004].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Don't listen to anybody that says a pen name is scammy. Your nom de plume has nothing to do with the content that you write.

    (The only exception would be if you used a title in your pen name that was not earned or given to you, i.e. Dr., Sir, Prof., Lady, Prince, etc.)

    You can call yourself anything you want. You're either a scammer or you're not. Your pen name has nothing to do with it.
    Signature

    Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5137030].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HairyPoppins
    What could possibly be "scammy" about a pen name?

    A pen name isn't impersonating someone else. That would be "scammy" imho.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5137994].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Julie Parish
    I could also see using a pen name if you live in a tiny town where everyone knows you. It could make your day job difficult. (yes, these towns still exist). As long as it isn't scamming, I don't see anything wrong with it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5138043].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ProScribe
    I don't think there is any problem with using pen names in general, authors do it all the time. However if you are worried I would just use my real name if that makes you feel more comfortable. I doubt anyone will look down at your for IM. Most people who are not actively involved don't really know what it is anyway
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5138083].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author russkampmann
    If you had my surname, you'd use a pen name, too.

    Actually, I want to keep my private life somewhat separate from my business life, and I use a pen name (associated with a brick and mortar that I used to own). If that name becomes rich and famous, so be it. I don't need personal accolades when I do something well. My pen name is welcome to all the fame.

    BTW, if you run an honest and forthright business, those occasional jibes won't ruin your reputation.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5138618].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jivens
    Banned
    I ALWAYS use my real name in every niche and it's never backfired on me. I like to display honesty. However, I never build a site on a niche that I don't know about.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5138627].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PamE
    What about security? For those of you that use your real name, have you run into any situation where you've felt threatened? My kids live with me.....
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5181057].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by PamE View Post

      What about security? For those of you that use your real name, have you run into any situation where you've felt threatened? My kids live with me.....

      I have only had one issue in almost 12 years.

      I did one time receive an email from someone living in another country, promising that he had been to my town once, and promising that the next time he was in my town, he was going to come to my house and blow my brains out.

      At the time, I lived in the same town as a military base, so I figured that there might be half a chance that something would come from it.

      But the guy was in Europe when he sent his message, so I never really worried about it.
      Signature
      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5181723].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author VinceReed
    I hear a lot of people telling you that option#3 is the best/only option, but fact is that when you open yourself up and you put yourself in a public space you take on a lot of risks. Especially if you become an industry leader, you have to be careful about people protecting yourself and your inner circle.
    Signature

    Looking For More Info About Me And Receive Additional Marketing Training And Tools =>Click Here

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5181081].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LauraJames
    Without question, be honest. This should not even be debated. I use my real name both personally and professionally. I am proud of it, and I want to represent myself in the best way possible. Besides, I have way too much to handle to try and handle some type of undercover identity. Best wishes to you.
    Signature

    Chief Executive Officer
    Best Designed Blogs
    Based in Canada and the USA
    None of our work is outsourced

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5181272].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Anthony W
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Eben Pagan yet... he's runs Double Your Dating (An 8 figure business in the dating niche) under the name David Deangelo.

    He's also one of the most professional and respected marketers.

    You want to use pen names so people don't get confused if they find out about your other niches.
    Signature
    Looking to buy Facebook accounts. PM me!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5181696].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AndreasJacobsen
    in the end, you have to do what you feel is right...

    I can understand that you have a lot on the line, so I wish you the best of luck
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5398183].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DGFletcher
      "Real" name and "Pen" name are always a little weird to me. I've got a birth name, a name that I actually go by, and then a pen name on top of that.

      I haven't used my birth name offline since 11th grade. It's a lovely name not on me.

      To everybody but my parents, I'm DG Fletcher.

      I use my "pen" name, DG Vaganova, to test out ideas and stuff.

      I'd suggest if you want to do the pen name thing, use it to test ideas, and then if you like the ideas, you can decide if you want to keep doing them with a pen name or not.
      Signature
      Don't let a messed up computer mess up your business!

      Fix it with a Free Computer Security and Identity Protection Scan
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5398256].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SEO Jerry
    It depends. If you think you might ever want to sell the business, then using a pen name is the only way to go because otherwise, you might not ever be able to create a new business under your own name again.

    I have done both, and I strongly prefer using my own name, but there are definite business reasons for using a made-up name, especially if you are creating a brand and you intend to sell it later.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5398210].message }}

Trending Topics