WHO Writes This %$#@! Anyways!!!?

14 years ago

Sounds like high school tricks to get to the full amount of pages required on an assignment.

1. People are taught that they need white space to make it easy for people to read their sales pages and they translate that into their whole work.

2. People think if they have more pages to their work, it will seem more valuable to the purchaser. LMAO. Yep, the idea that a customer is too stupid to see that there really aren't that many pages of info if the font is REAL big and the spaces are REAL large is a real solid means to get people coming back for another product.

3. Some people think that pricing should be determined by number of pages so will go to any length to make more pages so their prices will seem more justifiable.

Whatever the reasons are that people leave spaces in books the same way they do on a salespage or in an ad, they would do a lot better if they learned to use graphs and pictures to take up space in a book instead of leaving white space. Books and reports are NOT sales pages. The sales page is where the white space belongs - inside the book people expect information -- enough info to justify the price of the product. People who do not understand the difference between the product and sales material really should consider taking some writing and marketing classes.

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want2knowhow

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Sounds like high school tricks to get to the full amount of pages required on an assignment.

1. People are taught that they need white space to make it easy for people to read their sales pages and they translate that into their whole work.

2. People think if they have more pages to their work, it will seem more valuable to the purchaser.

LMAO. Yep, the idea that a customer is too stupid to see that there really aren't that many pages of info if the font is REAL big and the spaces are REAL large is a real solid means to get people coming back for another product.

3. Some people think that pricing should be determined by number of pages so will go to any length to make more pages so their prices will seem more justifiable.

Whatever the reasons are that people leave spaces in books the same way they do on a salespage or in an ad, they would do a lot better if they learned to use graphs and pictures to take up space in a book instead of leaving white space. Books and reports are NOT sales pages. The sales page is where the white space belongs - inside the book people expect information -- enough info to justify the price of the product. People who do not understand the difference between the product and sales material really should consider taking some writing and marketing classes.

Thank you! Thank you! THANK YOU!!! That's the EXACT content to my rant I was looking for! I knew I couldn't be alone and you summed it all up succinctly!

If what people are selling is the REAL DEAL HOLYFIELD...it wouldn't matter if it's just 3-5 pages long and they charged $7, $10 $97 or $150. It's the useful content CRAMMED inside that makes the all difference!

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Tonylee93

14 years ago

I really hate when ebooks are cheap looking.. If I bought an ebook I want the correct and good information.. I hope to get the money I paid for it back out of it from the content and information. I feel your pain and I know what you mean by a "highschool trick" ... dont waste my time~

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sober

14 years ago

Deja Vu !.

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Bill Farnham 14 years ago

LOL, this reminds me of when I was in grade school and one of my buddies made a sarcastic remark to the teacher about the weather which sorta pissed her off, to put it mildly.

So for punishment she asked him to write a three page report about the weather. So here's what he turned in...

The weather affects many countries including:

Afghanistan

Albania

Algeria

Andorra

Angola

Antigua and Barbuda

Argentina

Armenia

Australia

Austria

Azerbaijan

The Bahamas

Bahrain

Bangladesh

Barbados

Belarus

Belgium

Belize

Benin

Bhutan

Bolivia

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Botswana

Brazil

Brunei

Bulgaria

Burkina Faso

Burundi

Cambodia

Cameroon

Canada

Cape Verde

Central African Republic

Chad

Chile

China

Colombia

Comoros

Congo, Republic of the

Congo, Democratic Republic of the

Costa Rica

Cote d'Ivoire

Croatia

Cuba

Cyprus

Czech Republic

Denmark

Djibouti

Dominica

Dominican Republic

East Timor

Ecuador

Egypt

El Salvador

Equatorial Guinea

Eritrea

Estonia

Ethiopia

Fiji

Finland

France

Gabon

The Gambia

Georgia

Germany

Ghana

Greece

Grenada

Guatemala

Guinea

Guinea

Guyana

Haiti

Honduras

Hungary

Iceland

India

Indonesia

Iran

Iraq

Ireland

Israel

Italy

Jamaica

Japan

Jordan

Kazakhstan

Kenya

Kiribati

Korea, North

Korea, South

Kosovo

Kuwait

Kyrgyzstan

Laos

Latvia

Lebanon

Lesotho

Liberia

Libya

Liechtenstein

Lithuania

Luxembourg

Macedonia

Madagascar

Malawi

Malaysia

Maldives

Mali

Malta

Marshall Islands

Mauritania

Mauritius

Mexico

Micronesia

Moldova

Monaco

Mongolia

Montenegro

Morocco

Mozambique

Myanmar

Namibia

Nauru

Nepal

Netherlands

New Zealand

Nicaragua

Niger

Nigeria

Norway

Oman

Pakistan

Palau

Panama

Papua New Guinea

Paraguay

Peru

Philippines

Poland

Portugal

Qatar

Romania

Russia

Rwanda

Saint Kitts and Nevis

Saint Lucia

Saint Vincent and the Grenadines

Samoa

San Marino

Sao Tome and Principe

Saudi Arabia

Senegal

Serbia

Seychelles

Sierra Leone

Singapore

Slovakia

Slovenia

Solomon Islands

Somalia

South Africa

South Sudan

Spain

Sri Lanka

Sudan

Suriname

Swaziland

Sweden

Switzerland

Syria

Taiwan

Tajikistan

Tanzania

Thailand

Togo

Tonga

Trinidad and Tobago

Tunisia

Turkey

Turkmenistan

Tuvalu

Uganda

Ukraine

United Arab Emirates

United Kingdom

United States of America

Uruguay

Uzbekistan

Vanuatu

Vatican City

Venezuela

Vietnam

Yemen

Zambia

Zimbabwe
.................

Needless to say, he spent the next week staying after school for what the teacher considered mocking the assignment...

~Bill
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- onSubie 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bill Farnham
  
  The weather effects many countries including:
  
  .................
  
  LOL
  
  An effective response. How was his mark affected by getting the only verb in the whole report wrong?
  
  Mahlon
  
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  Bill Farnham 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by onSubie
  
  LOL
  
  An effective response. How was his mark affected by getting the only verb in the whole report wrong?
  
  LOL, that was most likely ME who spelled that word wrong in the post...
  
  Btw, I changed it so nobody would know...
  
  ~Bill
  
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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

I'm just guessing but it seems that you are downloading an eBook that has been formatted to be read on a computer (funnily enough). Then you're printing it out and complaining that it wasn't formatted for a printed page. That's because it's an eBook.

You do know that eBooks are supposed to be readable on computers, netbooks, tablets and even mobiles right?

How is anyone supposed to format something for a computer/mobile phone/printer, all at once?

So what anyone with any sense does, is to either create an alternate printable version (did it say it had this?) or they format it to be readable across all medium, the best they can.

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Colin Palfrey

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want2knowhow

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

I'm just guessing but it seems that you are downloading an eBook that has been formatted to be read on a computer (funnily enough). Then you're printing it out and complaining that it wasn't formatted for a printed page. That's because it's an eBook.

You do know that eBooks are supposed to be readable on computers, netbooks, tablets and even mobiles right?

How is anyone supposed to format something for a computer/mobile phone/printer, all at once?

So what anyone with any sense does, is to either create an alternate printable version (did it say it had this?) or they format it to be readable across all medium, the best they can.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

Well, if they want folks to part with their ca$h then....they'd better find a way! I didn't download that info to simply read it online. I bought it to print out and read it like it's supposed to be read; in hard print. If it's too difficult to format it properly for both, then I suggest (since the real intent and the whole purpose) was for the end buyer to print it out (like who only buys content to simply save it to their hard drive and read it on screen?) then they need to write it for offline printing, which was the whole purpose to begin with..or suffer losing customers.

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want2knowhow 14 years ago

And if that seems to difficult a task...then I suggest they make hard copy versions at a higher price and give customers a choice. Buy the $7 instant download (which then turns into $20 for the cost of ink and paper!)...or the $37 mailable hard copy.
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danr62

14 years ago

Originally Posted by want2knowhow

(like who only buys content to simply save it to their hard drive and read it on screen?)

Most people who buy ebooks only read them on screen. Why waste paper when it's perfectly legible on the screen?

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Alan Petersen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by danr62

Most people who buy ebooks only read them on screen. Why waste paper when it's perfectly legible on the screen?

And some people like to print it and read it in their hands, mark it with a high-lighter, etc. so we should try to please all our customers.

It's not that hard too make it possible.

What the OP is describing has nothing to do with saving paper/trees, it's shoddy tactics to turn a 10 page report into 30 pages.

Quality trumps quantity. They might get away with it once but there chances of having repeat customers will be nil by pulling off shenanigans like that.

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KeisEnt

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alan Petersen

And some people like to print it and read it in their hands, mark it with a high-lighter, etc. so we should try to please all our customers.

It's not that hard too make it possible.

What the OP is describing has nothing to do with saving paper/trees, it's shoddy tactics to turn a 10 page report into 30 pages.

Quality trumps quantity. They might get away with it once but there chances of having repeat customers will be nil by pulling off shenanigans like that.

A few years ago I sold an ebook promoting one of the major 2-UP direct sales programs. The ebook was about 10 pages long in exe format. Although short, it was very compelling and bundled with several substantial bonus products.

One purchaser of the ebook demanded that I send him a PDF copy so he could print it. This request baffled me because the ebook was so short. It absolutely did not contain voluminous information that one would need to search through or print. The ebook had lots of links to web pages, video and audio media so its effectiveness would have been severely diminished in hard copy - practically useless!

The purchaser strongly implied that he wanted to join my program and would do so if I gave him a PDF copy. I did not believe him. So I just gave him a refund and deactivated the ebook. I felt that he either wanted to steal it or was just too close minded to recognize the value of the opportunity before him.

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Alan Petersen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KeisEnt

A few years ago I sold an ebook promoting one of the major 2-UP direct sales programs. The ebook was about 10 pages long in exe format. Although short, it was very compelling and bundled with several substantial bonus products.

One purchaser of the ebook demanded that I send him a PDF copy so he could print it. This request baffled me because the ebook was so short. It absolutely did not contain voluminous information that one would need to search through or print. The ebook had lots of links to web pages, video and audio media so its effectiveness would have been severely diminished in hard copy - practically useless!

The purchaser strongly implied that he wanted to join my program and would do so if I gave him a PDF copy. I did not believe him. So I just gave him a refund and deactivated the ebook. I felt that he either wanted to steal it or was just too close minded to recognize the value of the opportunity before him.

EXE! egads. I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. You might think I'm a thief for wanting a PDF, I think you might be trying to slip in spyware or other malware via that exe file.

Trust it's a two way street.

Plus I'm on a mac anyway.

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Elizabeth Fee

14 years ago

Originally Posted by want2knowhow

like who only buys content to simply save it to their hard drive and read it on screen?

Guilty.... I'd rather have all of my ebooks and online information stored neatly on my hard drive for easy access with the click of a button than to store hard copies of it on a shelf - where it's likely to collect dust. With the technology available to us - iPads, kindles, etc... it's actually quite easy to read ebooks from a screen. I think this is sort of the wave of the future (or has been for some time)... going paperless. I personally prefer it.

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want2knowhow

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Fee

Guilty.... I'd rather have all of my ebooks and online information stored neatly on my hard drive for easy access with the click of a button than to store hard copies of it on a shelf - where it's likely to collect dust. With the technology available to us - iPads, kindles, etc... it's actually quite easy to read ebooks from a screen. I think this is sort of the wave of the future (or has been for some time)... going paperless. I personally prefer it.

That nagging, eye straining chore called scrolling is another factor I could do without. I don't have that problem whilst reading hard copy. Also, another problem for me is, I tend to not fully absorb my reading when done via a screen as well as when it's in my hands in front of me. My comprehension much is better when it's in my hands versus, when it's in my face. And I guess what it all comes down to is personal choice and preference...as this isn't the first online discussion/debate about this online v.s offline reading issue.

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timlane

14 years ago

Originally Posted by want2knowhow

That nagging, eye straining chore called scrolling is another factor I could do without. I don't have that problem whilst reading hard copy. Also, another problem for me is, I tend to not fully absorb my reading when done via a screen as well as when it's in my hands in front of me. My comprehension much is better when it's in my hands versus, when it's in my face. And I guess what it all comes down to is personal choice and preference...as this isn't the first online discussion/debate about this online v.s offline reading issue.

I never print eBooks. To me, flipping pages is irritating. One word: search. I can search all of my ebook content and mine all the info I need right now.

Since I save my eBooks on DropBox, they are available on every gadget, phone and computer I have.

If I were to print all the eBooks I actually use, I would need a truck to take them with me, and a library index system in a second truck tagging along just to find anything in the first truck.

Generally I don't care about the formatting, I care about the comment. Some authors think that because they do an exhaustive and professional looking work, I would be impressed.

But I am not. I need originality and applicability in an ebook. The stuff needs to be fresh, and it needs to work.

I will pay for timely, useful info. Even if I have to squint a bit to read it.

Usually the best, most practical and useful ideas come from those in the trenches. They might not have a classical education.

Good content first, then format.

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by want2knowhow

That nagging, eye straining chore called scrolling is another factor I could do without. I don't have that problem whilst reading hard copy. Also, another problem for me is, I tend to not fully absorb my reading when done via a screen as well as when it's in my hands in front of me. My comprehension much is better when it's in my hands versus, when it's in my face. And I guess what it all comes down to is personal choice and preference...as this isn't the first online discussion/debate about this online v.s offline reading issue.

For some reason this post makes me think you're an older person who grew up reading books and not staring at computer monitors

I agree with you on preferring a printed version of an ebook to read most times.
I like to circle things, highlight things, and write notes in the margins.
Tough to do with an ebook.
I'll also hike out into the woods to read or ride my bike up to Petersburg Pass and read up there. Much easier to do with paper then with a laptop or other electronic devise.

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LeeLee

14 years ago

Originally Posted by want2knowhow

...Also, another problem for me is, I tend to not fully absorb my reading when done via a screen as well as when it's in my hands in front of me. My comprehension much is better when it's in my hands versus, when it's in my face.

I seem to comprehend better with hard copy too. Since using the computer exclusively in the last few years I feel like I have an attention disorder.

I really want to be paperless but sometimes when I am implementing something new, I like to have instructions by my side as I am using the computer versus toggling back and forth between windows.

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Wilde

14 years ago

Personally I will read them on screen and if they are worth keeping then I will print them. Unfortunately this doesn't happen very often, as most of what seems to be coming out is rehashed stuff.

I tend to take notes in my journal or copy and paste it to a text file then print that. Don't see the point in having all the paper lying around and not reading it that often.

Anyway think of the trees

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want2knowhow

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wilde

Personally I will read them on screen and if they are worth keeping then I will print them. Unfortunately this doesn't happen very often, as most of what seems to be coming out is rehashed stuff.

I tend to take notes in my journal or copy and paste it to a text file then print that. Don't see the point in having all the paper lying around and not reading it that often.

Anyway think of the trees

I thought the whole point and idea about buying downloads/ebooks were built around that need for speed...thus, to have it instantaneously and printing it out right then and there....v.s having to wait for a hard copy version to come in the snail mail...which makes you wait just that much longer to get your/mine/our grubby little hands on that magical, life changing, million dollar getting, information!

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want2knowhow

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wilde

Anyway think of the trees

I do. Everytime I'm sitting or laying beneath one reading a really good, self absorbing, book.

I'm also thinking about all those HUGE trees that were felled during our freak late Oct snow storm...just sitting on the sides of the streets all cut up or jutting out of someone's front yard that could use another whack from a chain saw. See! I'm thinking about 'em!

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Wilde

14 years ago

Originally Posted by want2knowhow

I do. Everytime I'm sitting or laying beneath one reading a really good, self absorbing, book.

I'm also thinking about all those HUGE trees that were felled during our freak late Oct snow storm...just sitting on the sides of the streets all cut up or jutting out of someone's front yard that could use another whack from a chain saw. See! I'm thinking about 'em!

Agreed they are also pretty good on a nice warm fire while sitting infront of it with my laptop

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 14 years ago

There is nothing wrong with those methods. I use them all the time!

Trololololol.

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

I'm just guessing but it seems that you are downloading an eBook that has been formatted to be read on a computer (funnily enough). Then you're printing it out and complaining that it wasn't formatted for a printed page. That's because it's an eBook.

You do know that eBooks are supposed to be readable on computers, netbooks, tablets and even mobiles right?

How is anyone supposed to format something for a computer/mobile phone/printer, all at once?

So what anyone with any sense does, is to either create an alternate printable version (did it say it had this?) or they format it to be readable across all medium, the best they can.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

This is exactly what I was thinking while reading the post. It seemed...wrong to complain about the printed version of a book/report that is meant to be read online. At the same time though, I agree with the crux of what the OP was complaining about. Even for a book that is read on a computer, is the vast expanses of white space necessary? The larger fonts I can get; but not the "White Sea" that borders every chapter.

I'm right with you on the printable version thing too. That would be a great way to provide some extra value to a customer, at no extra charge and only like five more minutes of work.

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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe128139

This is exactly what I was thinking while reading the post. It seemed...wrong to complain about the printed version of a book/report that is meant to be read online. At the same time though, I agree with the crux of what the OP was complaining about. Even for a book that is read on a computer, is the vast expanses of white space necessary? The larger fonts I can get; but not the "White Sea" that borders every chapter.

I'm right with you on the printable version thing too. That would be a great way to provide some extra value to a customer, at no extra charge and only like five more minutes of work.

Well I've done printer friendly versions on a few products but I thought I was adding them for the benefit of one or two people, not the majority.

I totally agree about the white space though, no point in that. You need to add line-breaks and slightly excessive paragraphs to make it easier to read online, but I'm guessing that isn't what you're talking about.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

Well I've done printer friendly versions on a few products but I thought I was adding them for the benefit of one or two people, not the majority.

I totally agree about the white space though, no point in that. You need to add line-breaks and slightly excessive paragraphs to make it easier to read online, but I'm guessing that isn't what you're talking about.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

There's nothing wrong with line breaks and small paragraphs. As long as the author's work remains grammatically correct I completely condone taking these steps to make reading a report easier on the eyes and mind. My problem...

is when there is this much space in between each subsection. How about just bolding the title, letting me know that we have moved on to something new? I like the color white and all; but don't need to see that much of it all the time. Especially when I'm trying to better my business.

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cjreynolds 14 years ago

I agree that page breaks may be ok to separate sections, though not necessary. But I think many (most) that put massive white space in ebooks do it to pump up the page count, just to make it look more valuable than it is.

Even quality info is not as valuable if there's only 5 pages of it when condensed to a reasonable format. It's like going to a steak house and ordering their very best steak - even if it's the best steak in the world, if you pay $30 for it and it's the size of a silver dollar, no matter what the quality, you're gonna feel ripped off.

If your content only amounts to 5 pages and you spread it out over 25 pages, you're trying to make it look like more content than there actually is.

That's a rip-off no matter how you slice it
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- Chris1212 14 years ago
  
  Yes, I totally agree that the "fluffy", no real content products are maddening, and I feel the same about videos that an 8-year-old could have done better.
  
  Here's my solution and thoughts on this problem.
  
  First, try to open "paid for" content asap to see what you really got, even if you only have time to scan it right then. If it's garbage or just more fluff than you feel the price warrants, get a refund and then move on... forget about it... or... consider the following...
  
  Secondly, realize that even though you are ticked off at someone selling such feeble products, this could be a real money-maker for YOU.
  
  How?
  
  Simple... obviously, if you purchased this product then there is a demand for it right? Or, more accurately, a demand for the information you had hoped it contained.
  
  So? Go do some research on the topic yourself. Build a product on that subject that YOU would want to buy... and...
  
  Put it out there and make some $$ on it.
  
  Then thank the "lesser intelligent being" for ticking you off enough that s/he led you to extra income by their sheer greed and laziness.
  
  Just my .02
  
  Take care,
  Chris
  
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  Colin Palfrey 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Chris1212
  
  ...and I feel the same about videos that an 8-year-old could have done better.
  
  I got one like this a few weeks ago. The video started with the WSO seller appologising for the quality, then saying...and I quote, "I'm drunk and it's the middle of the night!" I was like WTF!
  
  I could only imagine getting an audio-only download from him, wondering about the pauses in the audio, then hearing him finish with the comment he is on the toilet.
  
  Regards,
  Colin Palfrey
  
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arnold55

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

I'm just guessing but it seems that you are downloading an eBook that has been formatted to be read on a computer (funnily enough). Then you're printing it out and complaining that it wasn't formatted for a printed page. That's because it's an eBook.

You do know that eBooks are supposed to be readable on computers, netbooks, tablets and even mobiles right?

How is anyone supposed to format something for a computer/mobile phone/printer, all at once?

So what anyone with any sense does, is to either create an alternate printable version (did it say it had this?) or they format it to be readable across all medium, the best they can.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

My experience agrees with Colin Palfrey. When I first started it took awhile (i'm a slow learner you know) for me to figure this out. I found that if I had purchased plr articles it was often better to paste them into ms word and delete the formatting or sometimes just changing it to "paragraphs" did the trick.

BUT....sometimes, the stuff just plain SUX

arnold55

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Fraggler 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

How is anyone supposed to format something for a computer/mobile phone/printer, all at once?

A well designed document will look good on both screen and print. The document viewers will handle word wrapping and accessibility settings so no other versions are even needed. Even graphics can scale between technologies if added to the original document correctly.

The problem is that people use all sorts of stupidly high desktop resolutions (on tiny monitors) and design their documents to make the words *pop* on their screen with little understanding of how they will scale on others. A well configured computer monitor will go close to a 1:1 representation of the printed version.
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Warrior X

14 years ago

Brilliant ^^

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LeeLee

14 years ago

I have bought a few things that came with a paper use friendly printable version. Very few, of course, but a nice touch that costs nothing. I rarely print digital media anymore but there are those occasions where I wish I had the option. I am not going to waste 20 pages of paper to get what should be 4 or 5 pages of copy.

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BoltAds

14 years ago

That's trolling. XD
Besides, real WSOs should be simple enough for you to get their knowledge.

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want2knowhow 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BoltAds

That's trolling. XD
Besides, real WSOs should be simple enough for you to get their knowledge.

Trolling? Who and what's trolling?
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want2knowhow 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BoltAds

That's trolling. XD
Besides, real WSOs should be simple enough for you to get their knowledge.

Nothing simple here when a bargain basement (priced) WSO turns into a spiraling printed, $20 ebook! Don't waste my time...or money.
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Rose Anderson

14 years ago

Speaking from the point of view of someone whose eyes aren't what they use to be...I appreciate the larger fonts. However, there is a middle ground. I don't like it when there are huge graphics such as borders around each page. That uses a lot of toner when printed.
I like it when a printable version is included as well as the "reading it on the screen" version.
Rose

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Amen!

I especially love the ones who say stupid things like "in this massive 37-page book..."

37 pages isn't massive, and it's not a book. To then find that the font size, line spacing and margins have all been tinkered with to turn 14 pages of content into that "37 pages" adds insult to injury.

As far as on-screen reading size, that's what the Zoom controls (in the View menu) are for in Acrobat. Expand the window to cover the full screen, set the Zoom to "Fit Width," and 12-point type is quite easily readable even on a 10" netbook.

Paul

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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

As far as on-screen reading size, that's what the Zoom controls (in the View menu) are for in Acrobat. Expand the window to cover the full screen, set the Zoom to "Fit Width," and 12-point type is quite easily readable even on a 10" netbook.

Paul

I've just tested this on my son's netbook. He has a 10" screen and using a 12 point font I can't read it unless I have my nose touching the screen.

I don't have brilliant eyesight but I passed the eyesight test to drive, so I would assume that older people are having even more problems.

This does lead to a good question: When people buy eBooks are they printing them out?

If a significant proportion are, then maybe everyone should start including a printer version. Most WSO creators currently don't.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

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Wilde

14 years ago

Yes that is speed. Download it, read it, if anygood print it, if not take out any good bits (if there is any) and print those or make notes in a journal. Everything that is hard copied out is then easy to find and minimal. If it's a technical journal about programming or similar then I will print them out.

Can't get much quicker than that.

I've been online since 1999 in web development, I was pointed to a book by Phil Wiley in 2000 (i think), then came across Paul Myers and a bit later Dr Mani & many inbetween. With some breaks due to health issues. If I were to have printed out every ebook, report, useful email I have read then I would need a house at least three times the size it is now, to store all the files in!

I do agree on the formatting/padding issue some have taken it waaaay to far as your case above. But I just don't see the point in printing everything out then reading it then sticking on a shelf to gather dust or chucking it in the bin.

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bobsstuff

14 years ago

I have sovled this problem by converting a PDF file I buy to a Word document and then printing it. I format the page the way I want it. I can also easily get rid of Borders and graphics that eat toner.
I use Wondershare PDF Converter. It converts PDF to: Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Epub, HTML, text
It sure makes life easier for someone who likes to read on paper rather than computer screen.

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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

Am I the only one that buys an eBook to read it on my computer then? I thought that's what everyone did.

Why are people even bothering to put links in eBooks then, if nobody is reading them on their computers? And how come my links get clicked?

I've even done a few interactive eBooks and nobody complained that the video sections wouldn't play on paper lol.

I'm curious now. If you buy a video course, do you burn it to DVD and watch it on the TV? Do others? That's a serious question as well. If people are putting them on DVD then there are better ways of formatting the videos.

I feel like a jungle explorer who knows the terrain and walks it everyday, but has just met a bus load of tourists who are talking about their trip to see the purple tigers

To me the idea of eBooks is as an instant alternative to books. Not as a way of downloading manuscripts to print out. If everyone but me thinks differently, I will happily change my layouts and count this as a very productive learning experience.

That is the point of these discussions after all. Our ideas meet and we all come out wiser.

I think I'll start by emailing past buyers and asking them if they used the print out version (I'd included one by request for an elderly reader), or they just read the eBook version. Has anyone done any tests on this before and are most people digital/print-out readers?

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Colin Palfrey

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want2knowhow

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

Am I the only one that buys an eBook to read it on my computer then? I thought that's what everyone did.

Why are people even bothering to put links in eBooks then, if nobody is reading them on their computers? And how come my links get clicked?

I've even done a few interactive eBooks and nobody complained that the video sections wouldn't play on paper lol.

I'm curious now. If you buy a video course, do you burn it to DVD and watch it on the TV? Do others? That's a serious question as well. If people are putting them on DVD then there are better ways of formatting the videos.

I feel like a jungle explorer who knows the terrain and walks it everyday, but has just met a bus load of tourists who are talking about their trip to see the purple tigers

To me the idea of eBooks is as an instant alternative to books. Not as a way of downloading manuscripts to print out. If everyone but me thinks differently, I will happily change my layouts and count this as a very productive learning experience.

That is the point of these discussions after all. Our ideas meet and we all come out wiser.

I think I'll start by emailing past buyers and asking them if they used the print out version (I'd included one by request for an elderly reader), or they just read the eBook version. Has anyone done any tests on this before and are most people digital/print-out readers?

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

I can betcha' most of those customers couldn't even tell you they read through the whole thing...probably because of eye fatigue from all that (bolded) and huge black front...all the bordering, and all the scrolling. Eyes and brains just weren't created to absorb content via lighted computer screens. Somehow *something* tends to get lost in translation along the way and people just clock out...never to return. Such a waste of your talent...and their money! But in the end, you won...because you got paid. Isn't that the name of the game?

I can tell you what though, I'm one of those people and parents who, when buying a bicycle would rather pay the extra money for either the already assembled, floor model..or pay the extra labor fee to have someone at the store assemble it for me and I don't have to break a sweat!

Think of it this way; this could be a whole new money maker. Their ink and paper/instant download v.s yours/hard copy & extra cost, but later date to receive it, but formatted in printable and readable form.

I'm all for the pony express...versus The U.S.S Starship Enterprise!

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RobHiness

14 years ago

Ugh, couldn't agree more. It's an outrage for sure! It's most annoying when people actually have good content, but instead they have crappy format.

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jborjaperez

14 years ago

Would you rather have huge gaps with important information in bullet points, or 15 pages of PURE writing with important information sprinkled through out?

IMO, people don't want to read a huge block of text. Depending on the kind of content, I like to make it EASY to read. Not everyone can concentrate on size 12 Times New Roman for longer then 20 minutes.

I don't think my reports have to be TEXT BOOK format to be QUALITY. I hate reading crap in school and hopefully people can understand me! haha. So I try different fonts out and space things evenly.

-Jared

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NPOPromote

14 years ago

Hahah!!

Honestly i care less about the actual format and more about the content.

I don't care if it's handwritten!

I'd take a great strategy or tip, written in chicken scratch over a nice looking piece of junk

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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

Well Want2knowhow, you have certainly got me thinking about this issue and that is why I come to this forum.

I have to notice after this thread, my best selling product and the one that was most recommended by customers...had a printable version with it.

I had believed the printer version wasn't going to be used by more than a few people, but now I wonder if it didn't get me a lot of good reviews.

So from now on I'll always include a smaller font, borderless, printer-friendly version of anything I publish online. Right, so that's one down (me). Now you just have to convince the rest of us

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Colin Palfrey

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NPOPromote

14 years ago

I'm going to be honest - I've read some great products that use these tactics. And while the ebooks, sales copy, internet pages, and e-mails can get annoying, they also speak to the key demographic that they are targeting (males, aged 18-25).

No matter what your key demographic, content must always be entertaining first, and informative second. Informative must be present for it to be a reliable and high selling product, but the reason people will actually read it... entertainment.

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by NPOPromote

I'm going to be honest - I've read some great products that use these tactics. And while the ebooks, sales copy, internet pages, and e-mails can get annoying, they also speak to the key demographic that they are targeting (males, aged 18-25).

No matter what your key demographic, content must always be entertaining first, and informative second. Informative must be present for it to be a reliable and high selling product, but the reason people will actually read it... entertainment.

Being squarely in that demographic, and showing the ludicrous things I see to my friends (again, in this demographic) I'm going to have to disagree. Large fonts, misleading statements about book lengths, and idiotic fonts do not entertain us at all.

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Zen Warrior

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Greg Wildermuth

I download ebooks and print them out on the backsides of scrap paper to read on the train (my only reading time).

I put them in .txt format first to save space - Massive 37 Page EBook becomes 3 1/2 pages.

Ha ha....There is one guy, not naming names, but I really hate his posts ( he does or JV's a LOT of WSO's...and he always singles out a few points, out of context, not even the real point, sometimes the opposite of what the poster meant....anyway, he puts it in BIG RED BOLD LETTERS.

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brightmarketing

14 years ago

I agree that it's a bit crazy these folks who create the ebooks can't take the time to format it properly. It's really not hard at all. You can use word or open office.

Converting to a pdf is a cinch.

Personally, I think it's people being lazy... in truth, it might take an extra 20 minutes to run spell-checker and select everything and size it into a cohesive font and make it look at least passable/semi-professional.

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want2knowhow 14 years ago

Thanks guys! This discussion was really nice and loved the feedback...! I knew I wasn't **crazy** and that many thoughts or small personal issues I may be having...I'm not totally alone in my ((rationale)) thinking! LOL!

Hmm, can someone answer this ((off topic but relevant)) question?

Are we only able to use the *thank you* button a certain amount of times per day...and once you reach it's count thresh hold...it suddenly disappears?

There has been a lot of thank you's I wanted to send...but can't find that dastardly button. Where oh where has my thank you button gone? Oh where oh where can it be....:rolleyes:
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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

It vanishes so you have a limit. No no, no need to thank me

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Colin Palfrey

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Colin,

If you still have problems with on-screen reading, click on the plus sign at the top of the Acrobat Reader window, and then hit Ctrl-4. That will enlarge the font further, and reflow the text to fit the visible screen width.

Paul

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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Colin,

If you still have problems with on-screen reading, click on the plus sign at the top of the Acrobat Reader window, and then hit Ctrl-4. That will enlarge the font further, and reflow the text to fit the visible screen width.

Paul

Very interesting. It destroys all the formatting but does make it readable, which overall must be viewed as the better outcome. I shall try and fish my phone out from the side of the chair tomorrow and see if it works on there, too.

Any idea if the views expressed in here are representative? I'm seeing a huge biased towards printing out the reports. I just don't know if they are the people most irritated into commenting, or just an average cross section of readers.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Colin,

Any idea if the views expressed in here are representative?

Hard to say. It depends on the age and educational level of your audience, really. Even then you're only looking at trends, rather than absolute numbers. It would be interesting to do a survey with solid methodology to find that out.

I do know that every time I forget to include page numbers in my books, I get a bunch of complaints from people who print them.

Paul

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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Colin,Hard to say. It depends on the age and educational level of your audience, really. Even then you're only looking at trends, rather than absolute numbers. It would be interesting to do a survey with solid methodology to find that out.

I do know that every time I forget to include page numbers in my books, I get a bunch of complaints from people who print them.

Paul

I always add the page numbers so they haven't said, and I didn't pick up on it. I think to test this I may give people an option to download a product in manuscript or eBook format in a future launch.

Just imagine if 90% of your readers print eBook out, and we are all busy hyper-linking throughout our guides.

The sheer irony of it would actually be a thing of wonder.

Affiliates everywhere, turning out their giveaway guides, patiently going through them and hyper-linking their recommendations....huge effort goes into the marketing...then the reader prints it out. They read the name of the recommended product, Google it and buy it! It's hilarious in a twisted way.

The affiliate then scratches their head and thinks, 'nobody really clicks those links' lol.

This is definitely worthy of further research. Even if the above situation doesn't happen all the time, I bet it does a good percentage of it.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

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Rose Anderson

14 years ago

Paul,
My eyes and I think you for that information

Rose

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Rose,

My eyes and I think you for that information

You are most welcome.

Here's another, in case you weren't familiar with it. If you're on a PC, you can increase the font size in your browser by holding down the control key and tapping the + key. Do it again for even larger type.

To go back to normal, hold down the control key and hit the 0 (zero) key.

The same options exist on the Mac, but I don't know what the triggers are.

Paul
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Rose Anderson

14 years ago

Colin,
I use to always print out ebooks and place them in binders. But after my last move...and hauling boxes and boxes of books...I've had to resort to a Kindle and reading more on screen. My back simply can't take it if I print anymore out. I do make exceptions for the ones I really find helpful.

Rose

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James Foster

14 years ago

I wonder if anyone complained about the handwriting on the Dead Sea Scrolls?

I'm not trying to compare ebooks to scripture, but seriuosly... isn't it the information we're after - not the way it looks?

You just want something to look nice - Go buy a tabloid.

If a document can give me a straight forward, easy to implement step-by-step plan to making an extra million dollars (for example) .... I don't care if it's written upside and backwards with a black light pen that can only be read during a solar eclipse!

I'd still find a way to read it.

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