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Lists: How Long to Presell - Averages

by Iriss
60 replies
You have a list, of say 100 people and you begin making your auto-responder.

How many emails do you send before the email that sells something?

I know "It depends...", but

What is the average, in your experience?

1) Please mention the frequency of your auto-responder (5-7 days apart?)

2) I guess the question I am asking is how long does it take for people to build trust?
#averages #lists #long #presell
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Iriss View Post

    How many emails do you send before the email that sells something?
    Typically two.

    Originally Posted by Iriss View Post

    1) Please mention the frequency of your auto-responder (5-7 days apart?)
    I send email on days 1, 3, 6, 10 and 15 and thereafter at 5-day intervals, with the first promotion typically in the third email, and then further promotions in about one email in three (sometimes one in two). The promotions are only part of the emails.

    As you say, "it depends".

    "Mine" have already seen a content-rich website before opting in, know that I'm an affiliate, and have received a "free report" (or whatever it's called) which gave them a lot more information and had in it one small product-promotion and many links back to my own site. They also know exactly how many emails they're going to get, and when, and why, and what the contents will be. This increases my open-rates and CTR's dramatically.

    It's easy to fulfil their expectations when you're the person who sets their expectations.

    Originally Posted by Iriss View Post

    2) I guess the question I am asking is how long does it take for people to build trust?
    Yes indeed ... well said: this is exactly the question you're asking.

    And that's why "it depends".

    The main thing it depends on is how much "trust" they already had to start with. And that, in turn depends on who they are, how you attracted them, what made them opt in, what you sent them for opting in, and especially on "what else they've seen of your sales funnel". So it really does "depend", big time!

    I wouldn't use the system I've described above, if I'd opted them in through a squeeze page, needless to say, because typically it takes a lot longer to develop trust, that way ... and that gives you the problem of off-setting that against declining opening-rates (typically, if they've come through a squeeze page) as the series progresses.
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    • Profile picture of the author packerfan
      Just wanted to say I like the way you do business. Wish I get on one of your lists.

      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Typically two.



      I send email on days 1, 3, 6, 10 and 15 and thereafter at 5-day intervals, with the first promotion typically in the third email, and then further promotions in about one email in three (sometimes one in two). The promotions are only part of the emails.

      As you say, "it depends".

      "Mine" have already seen a content-rich website before opting in, know that I'm an affiliate, and have received a "free report" (or whatever it's called) which gave them a lot more information and had in it one small product-promotion and many links back to my own site. They also know exactly how many emails they're going to get, and when, and why, and what the contents will be. This increases my open-rates and CTR's dramatically.

      It's easy to fulfil their expectations when you're the person who sets their expectations.



      Yes indeed ... well said: this is exactly the question you're asking.

      And that's why "it depends".

      The main thing it depends on is how much "trust" they already had to start with. And that, in turn depends on who they are, how you attracted them, what made them opt in, what you sent them for opting in, and especially on "what else they've seen of your sales funnel". So it really does "depend", big time!

      I wouldn't use the system I've described above, if I'd opted them in through a squeeze page, needless to say, because typically it takes a lot longer to develop trust, that way ... and that gives you the problem of off-setting that against declining opening-rates (typically, if they've come through a squeeze page) as the series progresses.
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    • Profile picture of the author beachblade
      Hi Alexa,

      Great info as always. I'm curious about how you inform your list about "how many emails they're going to get, when and why".

      Do you say "Hey I will sending you another email on Friday with info on xyz"

      or maybe "in the future you will get one email per week discussing xyz"


      Many thanks,

      Gary
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by beachblade View Post

        Hi Alexa,

        Great info as always. I'm curious about how you inform your list about "how many emails they're going to get, when and why".

        Do you say "Hey I will sending you another email on Friday with info on xyz"
        I vary how I do that slightly from niche to niche, to be honest, but typically something like this ...

        I refer openly on my sites to "an email around every 5 days - maybe one or two more just to start off", and I often (not always) try to end autoresponder messages on some minor cliff-hanger dropping a hint of something interesting "coming your way in a few days' time". I think it helps to increase open-rates.

        I always take the view (just in my own mind, I mean, of course) that "the primary purpose of each email is simply to ensure that they expect, open and read the next email". It strikes me that if you do that successfully, and don't do anything "bad", then overall you can't go too far wrong and are going to make sales (assuming that you've opted in the right people in the first place, i.e. that your traffic was adequately targeted).

        The "free report" (or whatever it's called) that I give them for opting in also tells them what to expect in the first 2 or 3 emails. I like to try to have as much "continuity" as possible.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ernie Mitchell
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Typically two.

      I send email on days 1, 3, 6, 10 and 15 and thereafter at 5-day intervals, with the first promotion typically in the third email, and then further promotions in about one email in three (sometimes one in two). The promotions are only part of the emails.

      ...................
      Alexa,

      If memory serves me properly, you have nine niche sites.

      If so, with the autoresponder sequence you are using, after the initial 10-day blast, each niche site requires six autoresponders per month for a grand fifty-four autoresponders per month.

      Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I remember reading that you write three articles per niche per week which would equate to twenty-seven articles per month.

      As slow as I am, I can't imagine holding up for very long to that kind of workload.

      Do you ever re-purpose portions of your articles into autoresponders? At first blush, it seems like a logical thing to do --- maybe not?

      Also, (now for the dumb question of the day), Do you also have to write blog posts for your own sites? Do you have blogs attached to your niche sites and therefore also have to write blog posts for each site or are your sites in essence blogs and therefore you are treating your articles for syndication as blog posts? (I warned you that it was a dumb question ).

      I am asking this because I am starting a branding site with a blog attached. Because I have several archives of never before published online articles that, though they fall under a single umbrella of entrepreneurship, really need to be categorized in, menus like Motivation, Personal Development, and Online Marketing rather than simply listed in chronological "blog" order.

      With this in mind, I am going to place my articles for syndication, both archived and future, not in the blog area but instead in a series of "Ernie's Articles" pages that address the categories mentioned above.

      With this schematic, I am thinking I will also going to have to write blog posts or perhaps get rid of the blog element on the site completely?

      Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        Alexa,

        If memory serves me properly, you have nine niche sites.
        8. (9 only by including one silly one with no list, etc.)

        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        If so, with the autoresponder sequence you are using, after the initial 10-day blast, each niche site requires six autoresponders per month for a grand fifty-four autoresponders per month.
        Well ... a couple of them are on 6-daily emails rather than 5-daily, so let's call it 46 ...

        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I remember reading that you write three articles per niche per week
        Per month ... each of my niche sites gets a new article about every 10 days.

        I write about 25 articles per month (I couldn't do more than one per day. Well, I could, but I wouldn't want to, not with all the other stuff there is to do, as well).

        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        Do you ever re-purpose portions of your articles into autoresponders? At first blush, it seems like a logical thing to do --- maybe not?
        Always.

        I'm re-using almost all of that content. Sometimes with a tiny bit of re-writing, sometimes not. It does mean that people who really scour my sites and see every article and continually open and read every email I ever send them are sometimes going to see a bit of "content" twice. But this seems not to matter (and people fitting that description are probably going to be such good customers anyway ...).

        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        Do you also have to write blog posts for your own sites?
        Noooo, just a couple when I've started each of the 8 sites off. And occasionally I'll add something if/when I change/add a new product for the niche. But nothing "routine". The articles more or less are my "blog posts", in a sense, you could say.

        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        Do you have blogs attached to your niche sites
        No, they are blogs, technically (in that they're made with blogging software - not Wordpress - and they even have a "sidebar", but apart from that they don't really look like blogs: the posts don't have dates, there are no "comments", and so on.)

        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        or are your sites in essence blogs and therefore you are treating your articles for syndication as blog posts? (I warned you that it was a dumb question ).
        This.

        Not a dumb question at all!

        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        I am asking this because I am starting a branding site with a blog attached. Because I have several archives of never before published online articles that, though they fall under a single umbrella of entrepreneurship, really need to be categorized in, menus like Motivation, Personal Development, and Online Marketing rather than simply listed in chronological “blog” order.

        With this in mind, I am going to place my articles for syndication, both archived and future, not in the blog area but instead in a series of “Ernie’s Articles” pages that address the categories mentioned above.
        Yes ... sounds fine. Well, you're starting off with quite a bit of content "already done", by the sound of it? Which must help?

        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        With this schematic, I am thinking I will also going to have to write blog posts or perhaps get rid of the blog element on the site completely?
        I think you can do either. I don't know the niche, though. (Apart from as a consumer, I mean). Either can work well, though? But personally, I've never hesitated to send out in autoresponder emails material most of which already exists on my sites. I always imagine that people (even people who are opting in, and are "genuine prospects") read only a small proportion of what's on my sites. It's there, really, because I want to show people that it exists (i.e. that they're dealing with someone who has a content-rich site and not a squeeze page) rather than wanting them to read it. I know this probably sounds a bit odd, but this is how I think of it, Ernie: to me, the entire purpose of my site is to get people to opt in. That's about all I want from it, really. But I do that by making it look like "a real/impressive site" because, with my customer demographics (which are themselves similar in all my niches, really, though the niches themselves are completely unrelated) the people who will opt in on something that strikes them as "a content-rich site", whether they actually read any/much of the content or not, are a different class of people from the ones who opt in to pure squeeze pages. There are more of the latter, but not so many of them go on to buy stuff! Just my perspective ...

        I do see that motivation, personal development and online marketing can all fit together.

        I have no experience of what people call the "IM niche" (have never produced a product, or anything - and have no lists in this area) and really have no idea whether "my style of sites/emails" would lend itself to that area. I wouldn't be astonished if it didn't at all, to be honest. So you should probably take everything I say with a pinch of sodium chloride, you know?
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Stone
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I have no experience of what people call the "IM niche" (have never produced a product, or anything - and have no lists in this area) and really have no idea whether "my style of sites/emails" would lend itself to that area. I wouldn't be astonished if it didn't at all, to be honest. So you should probably take everything I say with a pinch of sodium chloride, you know?
          You wouldn't be suitable for that market because you'd have a product that actually works

          If you did get interested though, then I reckon your unique selling point (emails/site content/product reviews) could be brutal honesty with some humour...
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        • Profile picture of the author Ernie Mitchell
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          ......................

          I think you can do either. I don't know the niche, though. (Apart from as a consumer, I mean). Either can work well, though? But personally, I've never hesitated to send out in autoresponder emails material most of which already exists on my sites. I always imagine that people (even people who are opting in, and are "genuine prospects") read only a small proportion of what's on my sites. It's there, really, because I want to show people that it exists (i.e. that they're dealing with someone who has a content-rich site and not a squeeze page) rather than wanting them to read it. I know this probably sounds a bit odd, but this is how I think of it, Ernie: to me, the entire purpose of my site is to get people to opt in. That's about all I want from it, really. But I do that by making it look like "a real/impressive site" because, with my customer demographics (which are themselves similar in all my niches, really, though the niches themselves are completely unrelated) the people who will opt in on something that strikes them as "a content-rich site", whether they actually read any/much of the content or not, are a different class of people from the ones who opt in to pure squeeze pages. There are more of the latter, but not so many of them go on to buy stuff! Just my perspective ...

          I do see that motivation, personal development and online marketing can all fit together.

          I have no experience of what people call the "IM niche" (have never produced a product, or anything - and have no lists in this area) and really have no idea whether "my style of sites/emails" would lend itself to that area. I wouldn't be astonished if it didn't at all, to be honest. So you should probably take everything I say with a pinch of sodium chloride, you know?
          Alexa --- Thank you for you reply.

          Sorry it took so long to reply --- as mentioned in my PM, we had a huge thunderstorm up here in the north woods that took out the power. Until this morning, I have been living by the light of my grandmother's old kerosene lamp.

          I believe your system will indeed work in the IM (Home Based Business Internet Entrepreneurism) market and I'm going to give it a spin.

          For a market as broad as Home Based Business Internet Entrepreneurism market and given the multiple (but allied) genres of articles in my existing archives, I feel I need to adopt a more sophisticated site format that the typical chronological order blog format. After all, how efficient is the typical chronological blog format when a site has three or four hundred articles posted to it?

          Therefore, assuming moving them later will not cause search engine problems. I am considering making all new article posts to the site, be they newly written content, or from my unpublished evergreen article archives, in the same manner and format as one would when posting in a standard blog. "With the following exceptions:"

          At the beginning of the new article posts area will be a title header saying: "Most Recent Article Posts."

          Then, in the heading of each individual article will be the genre and word count of the article.

          At the bottom of the page, after say 24 articles there will be another header running across the bottom of the page saying "For More Articles Choose From One Of The Specific Genre Archives." Immediately below this will be a horizontally arranged group of link tabs bearing the names of specific genres.

          The comment option will be disabled.

          When a new article is posted to the "Most Recent Article Posts" page the last or number 24 article will be bumped to the appropriate genre archive page.

          Lest I forget that this site has two purposes: First is to procure opt-ins and second, to serve as a watering hole for webmasters and eZine publishers seeking syndication content. Offering a user-friendly environment for webmasters and publishers seeking content is of paramount importance.

          I trust moving an article from the "Most Recent Article Posts" page to a genre archive page will not screw up relations with Google. If anyone has an opinion, I would love to hear it.

          ??? The articles in my archives were written for print edition newspaper syndication and therefore are between 750 and 800 words. Should I rewrite them into 1,000 to 1,200 word articles for digital syndication before posting them to the site or offer them as is?

          Last ???: Alexa, How do you do it? How can you write article after article, day after day without fear of becoming stale. I'm not doubting that you do so --- I'm confident that you do --- I only know I could not.

          I suffered burnout after writing a weekly (one per week) column on business, personal development and motivation after three years. It was a broad market with plenty to write about and I felt like I hit the wall. How do you do it? :confused:

          Many Thanks,

          Ernie Mitchell
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

            Until this morning, I have been living by the light of my grandmother's old kerosene lamp.
            Congratulations on being re-powered-up ... parts of England are flooded out now, also: BBC News - Severe flood warning in South West as heavy rain falls

            Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

            I trust moving an article from the "Most Recent Article Posts" page to a genre archive page will not screw up relations with Google.
            I'm no expert, but I don't see why it should? It's fairly common, in "blogging", in general, for articles to end up on a different page from where they're originally posted, after all? The url of the text-file will presumably be the same, when you move it (I think you might want to ensure that outcome, if you're conerned about this - but that shouldn't be difficult? I don't use Wordpress, myself, but I could move an article on my sites without changing its url).

            Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

            The articles in my archives were written for print edition newspaper syndication and therefore are between 750 and 800 words. Should I rewrite them into 1,000 to 1,200 word articles for digital syndication before posting them to the site or offer them as is?
            I don't think I would. They were probably written to be "the legnth they need to be"? And if you go back and fill them all out to 1,100-ish words now, then (a) you'll be taking on a big job you can probably do without (especially by kerosene lamp) and (b) the articles themselves probably won't be any the better for it, really? I can't feel too enthusiastic about the prospect of "padding" them all by 35% just in an attempt to increase their syndication prospects with no certainty of outcome anyway - I really can't. I suspect it's time you can spend better in other ways ... :confused:

            Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

            Alexa, How do you do it? How can you write article after article, day after day without fear of becoming stale.
            I write only 5 articles per week, you know? One per day for 5 days of the week. It's not that bad. Ok, the process of doing it gets a little repetitive, but I break that up by stopping to post here quite a bit, which helps, and I go back to it a little "fresher" each time.

            And I enjoy writing them, anyway. When I write those, I don't altogether have to be "on my best behavior", like I do here ("no, seriously folks ..."), which can be quite a strain at times. I can be as outspoken as I want, and try to make them all "laugh-out-loud funny", which are both, after all, things that do genuinely help them to be syndicated.

            Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

            I suffered burnout after writing a weekly (one per week) column on business, personal development and motivation after three years.
            I do hear you.

            I haven't been doing this for much more than 3 years, yet.

            But I do other things as well.

            I haven't really "added a new niche" for well over a year, though. I think about it, and have some possible ideas for niches, and then I think of the extra work involved in starting off something new, and I tell myself that I can just grow the niches I have, for the moment. I originally thought I could build up 20 different niches like this and "keep them all in the air" at the same time. But with the experience I have now, I know I couldn't really do that without outsourcing a lot. And outsourcing is by no means my forte, because I don't like "other people" being in control of "my stuff". So this all remains unresolved, for me, really.

            So I do hear you ...
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            • Profile picture of the author Ernie Mitchell
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Congratulations on being re-powered-up ... parts of England are flooded out now, also: BBC News - Severe flood warning in South West as heavy rain falls ...........................................
              ...
              A good friend that lives in hull told me about the floods. Sounds like a real mess. I used to work for a firm in Hull --- spent lots "good times" there.

              I agree with your comment about not fluffing the 800 word newsprint articles to 1,200-words if it risks sacrificing integrity. I raised the issue because I am not clear on just how critical being over the 1,000-word threshold is for successful digital syndication.

              When I originally wrote some of the articles, I felt confined by the print editor's 800-word size limit. I may expand upon those.

              Your comment about making your articles "laugh-out-loud funny" sounds like you make your work much more than didactic epistles and that, no doubt, is why you enjoy what you do and do it so well.

              I detest having to write potboiler material. I have an African cast iron Potjie Pot that sits on a large airtight wood burning stove close to my work area to remind me not to churn out potboiler material.

              Thanks for your comments and insight.
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          • Profile picture of the author PatrickBrianONeill
            Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

            Alexa, How do you do it? How can you write article after article, day after day without fear of becoming stale. I'm not doubting that you do so --- I'm confident that you do --- I only know I could not.


            Ernie Mitchell

            Ernie,


            I know and respect Alexa as a writer, and do not presume to answer for her.
            But I read this and your earlier posts, and maybe I can help here?


            I keep a digital recorder (holds up to 6 hours) and WHENEVER I have inspiration, I record my thoughts. It may be 10 seconds or a couple of minutes, but I get them down NOW!


            I, like Alexa, am also a writer that just happens to enjoy writing. I write every day, write 40 to 50 articles for clients weekly, write for myself as well, and truly LOVE it.


            So maybe writing is not your thing. What I would recommend is to find a way to write at the same time one or two days a week, and handle all your writing then.


            The human brain is incredibly easy to program, and by "telling" it when it needs to produce, doing it over and over on a pre-set schedule, your body will follow suit.


            Countless studies have shown that if you do something, anything, for 17 to 21 days in a row, the same way and at the same time, you will have programmed yourself where you do it effortlessly. Many mornings I have showered and poured coffee and am in my computer chair before I realize I am out of the bed.


            I have also heard many writers (myself included) say that early morning is their best work.


            I personally write every morning from around 6 or 7 for two or three hours, and I can get out a TON of quality product.


            I believe this is because as IMers, we fall asleep thinking about writing, and lists, and marketing and our niches, and I find that my well-rested brain is FULL of ideas in the morning, to the point where it is practically impossible for me to keep up with the speed with which my brain is "offloading".


            I hope this simple steps help, and finally, I will reveal how I increased my writing production 40% to 60%, literally overnight. I use Dragon Home 11 (I think it is $40 on Amazon?) and do not know how I existed without it. I speak instead of type, and since I never learned to keyboard, this was indispensable to me. (Also, the dictation works ANYWHERE you would traditionally type ... Google search box, email, Skype messages, and even supports dozens of web-oriented commands.)


            I know that the cheap Dragon voice dictation software (I am not affiliated with them in any way, no aff. link) paid for itself for me the very first day, and I still use it daily almost 2 years after purchasing.


            Good luck,
            Patrick
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    • Profile picture of the author 01123581321345589144
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Typically two.



      I send email on days 1, 3, 6, 10 and 15 and thereafter at 5-day intervals, with the first promotion typically in the third email, and then further promotions in about one email in three (sometimes one in two). The promotions are only part of the emails.

      As you say, "it depends".

      "Mine" have already seen a content-rich website before opting in, know that I'm an affiliate, and have received a "free report" (or whatever it's called) which gave them a lot more information and had in it one small product-promotion and many links back to my own site. They also know exactly how many emails they're going to get, and when, and why, and what the contents will be. This increases my open-rates and CTR's dramatically.

      It's easy to fulfil their expectations when you're the person who sets their expectations.



      Yes indeed ... well said: this is exactly the question you're asking.

      And that's why "it depends".

      The main thing it depends on is how much "trust" they already had to start with. And that, in turn depends on who they are, how you attracted them, what made them opt in, what you sent them for opting in, and especially on "what else they've seen of your sales funnel". So it really does "depend", big time!

      I wouldn't use the system I've described above, if I'd opted them in through a squeeze page, needless to say, because typically it takes a lot longer to develop trust, that way ... and that gives you the problem of off-setting that against declining opening-rates (typically, if they've come through a squeeze page) as the series progresses.
      How long does it take to set up a content rich site? It's different than a squeeze page no? Do you have any example sites you can show us?
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    • Profile picture of the author affiliater84
      Exactly when will send your affiliate product links, on day 1,3,6 or 10?
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  • Profile picture of the author Trevor
    Originally Posted by Iriss View Post

    You have a list, of say 100 people and you begin making your auto-responder.

    How many emails do you send before the email that sells something?

    I know "It depends...", but

    What is the average, in your experience?

    1) Please mention the frequency of your auto-responder (5-7 days apart?)

    2) I guess the question I am asking is how long does it take for people to build trust?
    1) On the first week I like to mail out one email every two days to keep my subscribers interested and "warm". I only send out "value" emails at the beginning to ensure I provide enough value to build trust and make my subscribers be happy that they are on my list.

    After week 1 I slow down the rate, but still mail at least once a week, so that my subscribers don't forget who I am and why they joined my list.

    2) There no one-fit-all rule, I guess, but if your subscribers already know you before they join the list, they you can say it's much easier to build trust with them. A few weeks of regular mailing out of valuable content should be a warm relationship between you and your list.
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  • Profile picture of the author lisakleinweber
    In my niche where I am an affiliate, hawaii travel, the ebooks that I give away with the sign up and my first message and just about every message thereafter mention and link to my offers. My offers are things that they want to know anyway, and there is no hard sell - just this is the airline I like to recommend, and these are the two products that will save you money and this is how they save you money.

    In my niche where I am selling an ebook - a health topic - I mention my book in every email. but again, there is no hard sell and it's not all about my book.

    My emails are nothing but valued content - here's what you need to know and why you need to know it and how it's going to help you - and then at the end I'll say "I talk more about this in my book".
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  • Profile picture of the author lisakleinweber
    p.s. how long does it take to build trust? zero time. I am so transparent and personal in everything I do that as far as I know, I am trusted right away. This will be MUCH harder in the make money online niche than in other niches.

    and p.s. my emails go out once a day for the first few days until all the MUST HAVE info is out. then I switch to once every 4 days. This is stuff people want to know *now*.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Iriss View Post

      I know "It depends...", but

      What is the average, in your experience?...


      You know, it really does depend - almost completely on your marketing model. For example, nearly all of my niche lists consists only of current buyers to begin with. The "trust factor" is previously well-established as a result of authoritative syndicated articles, which keeps sales conversion rates high.

      Customers are invited to opt-in only after first making a nominal purchase. Thereafter, subsequent purchases are in average intervals of 3-4 weeks for as long as they remain as subscribers.

      Emails are sent daily which include articles regarding the product or niche, a few tips, resources, jokes, and always a short promotion for the next incrementally higher priced product with a link to its review/presell page.

      This may be considered a very aggressive sales funnel, but daily contact and promotions are perhaps essential in the fast pace of competitive marketing.
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      • Profile picture of the author detomaso
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        You know, it really does depend - almost completely on your marketing model. For example, nearly all of my niche lists consists only of current buyers to begin with. The "trust factor" is previously well-established as a result of authoritative syndicated articles, which keeps sales conversion rates high.

        Customers are invited to opt-in only after first making a nominal purchase. Thereafter, subsequent purchases are in average intervals of 3-4 weeks for as long as they remain as subscribers.

        Emails are sent daily which include articles regarding the product or niche, a few tips, resources, jokes, and always a short promotion for the next incrementally higher priced product with a link to its review/presell page.

        This may be considered a very aggressive sales funnel, but daily contact and promotions are perhaps essential in the fast pace of competitive marketing.
        Myob, you are obviously an expert on this. But your advice (in bold) runs contrary to my personal experience as a customer. :confused: For example, I signed up to an email list of a prominent Warrior guru. I liked the initial free report. This Warrior is a known success. But now I am swamped with near daily emails from this person. It's a big turnoff. I don't have time to read all of these along with the rest of my emails, and I'd prefer 1-2 emails per 7-10 days.

        Am I an outlier? Do most people really appreciate daily emails? I'd like to learn this as I get ready to launch my own list in a couple of weeks. Thanks.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by detomaso View Post

          Myob, you are obviously an expert on this. But your advice (in bold) runs contrary to my personal experience as a customer. :confused: For example, I signed up to an email list of a prominent Warrior guru. I liked the initial free report. This Warrior is a known success. But now I am swamped with near daily emails from this person. It's a big turnoff. I don't have time to read all of these along with the rest of my emails, and I'd prefer 1-2 emails per 7-10 days.

          Am I an outlier? Do most people really appreciate daily emails? I'd like to learn this as I get ready to launch my own list in a couple of weeks. Thanks.
          Let me ask this; do you read daily newspapers? Lots of people do. In many ways, my emails closely parallel this proven marketing model.

          There are dynamic niches that are influenced by daily events, and subscribers really do in fact appreciate such timely updates. And it is generally accepted for advertisments and promotions to be included with quality content.

          Keep in mind that most everyone is market-savy these days. They know that after all the freebies and warm fuzzies, you're actually scheming to eventually hit them up with sales promotions. Meanwhile, they're buying from competitors because you're taking so long to "engage" or build up a relationship of "trust".

          Effective marketing is not about you, nor your personal preferences, but what works. Test your market, but also understand that timidity can be costly in terms of lost sales.

          In my not so humble opinion, it is far more effective to build solid, trusting relationships on a history of mutually beneficial transactions rather than conniving for weeks or months with silly, arbitrary and unfounded timing of emails.
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          • Profile picture of the author julianwebb
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            Customers are invited to opt-in only after first making a nominal purchase.
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            In my not so humble opinion, it is far more effective to build solid, trusting relationships on a history of mutually beneficial transactions rather than conniving for weeks or months with silly, arbitrary and unfounded timing of emails.
            Paul, YOU'RE THE MAN!

            It's like you do it all, although "differently"--I can feel the aggressiveness.

            "Competitor's Nightmare" was funny at first, but not really now.
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            • Profile picture of the author myob
              These actually are much more practical marketing approaches, particularly when selling high end products. First establish a solid relationship with your prospects through a series of successive transactions, ideally at progressively higher price points. Secondly, continually engage your customers using multiple communication channels, leading up to and including personal contact. And thirdly, don't hesitate to promptly cull your lists of unresponsive dead weight or even those in your funnel who don't qualify for your end product.

              For example, I've sold extremely competitive products in 5-7 figure price ranges almost exclusively by marketing to initial buyers of Clickbank and nominally priced Amazon products (under $50). Marketing to proven buyers who also have the means, identifiable demographics and prequalifications for the end product is widely practiced among top affiliates.

              Some excellent resources that I have often recommended and used extensively as part of my own training system include: "Turn Words Into Traffic" by Jim and Dallas Edwards, "Magnetic Marketing" by Dan Kennedy, "Brand Against the Machine" by John Michael Morgan, "Permission Marketing" by Seth Godin, and quite often (mostly silly and/or quite humorous examples of what not to do) selected from "guru" posts right here on the Warrior Forum.
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              • Profile picture of the author julianwebb
                I just found today at a bookstore that the other book you're recommending, The Elements of Style by William Strunk, is actually recommended for use by a nearby university. I ordered it, paid upfront. Should be getting it in a few days. Maria Popova also recommends that book.

                I bought a few marketing and business books today. I'm just frustrated Permission Marketing was out of stock. I'm definitely hunting for that later.

                Thanks for not tiring sharing those references. I've seen you repeatedly do that. Thanks, just thanks.

                I gotta tell you some of those "guru" posts do mess with the head! I just hate it. But hey, we gotta learn one way or another, right? Yeah, I still hate it.
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  • Profile picture of the author jessiepadgal
    Old thread, but a valuable thread. Was looking for information to help me get an idea of what a "typical" autoresponder sequence might be like...

    Thanks :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author InTh3Moment
    Jumpstarting this thread (can't pm yet)...

    Alexa, I've been following along with many of your posts and want to thank you times infinity for all of the help you've provided me.

    I saw in a different thread that you mentioned telling your subscribers either prior to opting in or within the first email (or both?) that you are an affiliate. I was wondering if you could give a little more of an explanation regarding this (i.e. If your website were all about designer coffee mugs and other coffee drinking related products, would you explain to them that you, from time to time, will share with them certain products that you have found personally to be useful or of high quality and that you are an affiliate with the ones you recommend?)

    I think I am just wondering how you go about mentioning this to consumers. One more question; have you found this to be a better alternative to being a bit more implicit with your motivations so that you can simply recommend them a product or service for their benefit - why does the fact that you are an affiliate need to be mentioned at all?

    Thanks again for all that you contribute here, you've really helped me out more than you know, well, maybe you do know and either way I am extremely appreciative
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I can't answer for Alexa, and she's obviously more than capable of doing so for herself, but here's how I handle it.

      I don't make it a big deal. I tell people upfront that along with the info I promised when they opted in, I will make recommendations on products and services to make getting whatever benefit easier, faster or simply more enjoyable. If they choose to do something with those recommendations, like make a purchase or subscribe to a list, I might get some benefit from the action, sometimes even money. Not every link will be like that, but the safe thing to assume is that I will.

      After that, I never mention it again.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by InTh3Moment View Post

        why does the fact that you are an affiliate need to be mentioned at all?
        For legal reasons (FTC, among others).

        I'm no lawyer, but I think I'm right in saying that if you live in the US, or host your site in the US, or sell anything in the US (that'll include ClickBank, Amazon, and others), or use any international top-level domain like a .com, then the FTC effectively has some jurisdiction over your business. (The FTC managed to take all those offshore poker sites offline, last year, just because they were using ".com" domain-names, and now they're not!). Also, people with whom we do business (such as Aweber, GetResponse, Hostgator and so on) tend to apply FTC-esque considerations to their own terms of service (they're sometimes down there, somewhere, in all the fine print), and to all intents and purposes they more or less apply to all of us equally. That's my non-lawyer's perspective of the situation, anyway.

        That said, I like to disclose it very openly, anyway. Because my overall feeling on this subject is that people aren't stupid and they know perfectly well that most of your recommendations are incentivized anyway, and all you can ever do by making your disclosure a little bit more prominent than most is "score extra honesty and openness points", and I like that.

        I couldn't prove this, under pressure, but I firmly believe that I sell more by making a slightly bigger thing out of my disclosures than most people do.

        I also enjoy writing them, and take time and trouble to make them amusing/entertaining, while still "complying", which I think is a plus.

        Originally Posted by InTh3Moment View Post

        If your website were all about designer coffee mugs and other coffee drinking related products, would you explain to them that you, from time to time, will share with them certain products that you have found personally to be useful or of high quality and that you are an affiliate with the ones you recommend?
        Yes, exactly, but not in that wording at all (but that's just me - I want everything to match the style of everything else I present in the niche ).

        Please excuse my not being able to show you a couple of my affiliate disclaimers. A long time ago, I did this in a thread, and ever since then I've been getting occasional messages from people saying "Ooh, I've found one of your niche sites" (i.e. by putting that wording into Google, when, usually, they haven't found one at all: what's happened is that some other people have copied my exact disclosure wording on their affiliate sites ), but anyway I'm cagey about this now; please excuse me.

        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        After that, I never mention it again.
        I handle that a little differently from John, because I'll occasionally mention it again in autoresponder emails. And I'll sometimes also mention specifically that I'm not an affiliate for something I'm recommending (when I'm not, obviously), and I know from responses that that can go down really well with people, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    I would send your emails every 2-3 days. See how that works out for you.

    The secret to making the big money with your list in not only giving them great content but also you need to focus on getting lots of them on a daily basis. It is basically a numbers game.
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  • Profile picture of the author Les Blythe
    Originally Posted by Iriss View Post


    What is the average, in your experience?

    1) Please mention the frequency of your auto-responder (5-7 days apart?)

    2) I guess the question I am asking is how long does it take for people to build trust?
    Very Interesting discussion and I'm of the opinion that there is not a one size fits all answer - particularly on the frequency aspect. I'm giving away short videos to my list (5 minutes long or so) but it's good content.

    I'm mailing every day for the first 11 days and during that time you get 12 videos (2 with the first mail). I present the videos myself so my list gets to know me. I invite my list to look at my product (not an affiliate product) on day 5.

    I do believe that a prospect is more likely to buy in the first week or so but also if you add value people will stay on your list much longer.

    I am genuinely looking for a win/win for my list and obviously for myself when I sell something. I only try to give good and useful content.

    I approach it by asking myself "what would I be happy receiving?" Useful content or yet another buy this now get rich quick scheme.
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Sorry to butt in with my question, butthopefully it can help you too.

      Once you have offered a product do you offer it ever again?

      I only have 3 products in my niche I want to offer. They're the only ones I believe in, so I hope I have more than 3 chances to make a sale before I write a book.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
        Originally Posted by fin View Post

        Sorry to butt in with my question, butthopefully it can help you too.

        Once you have offered a product do you offer it ever again?

        I only have 3 products in my niche I want to offer. They're the only ones I believe in, so I hope I have more than 3 chances to make a sale before I write a book.
        I'm not the most experienced here, but I'll give it a shot:

        Yes, of course you'll want to promote the products again. Don't think that you need to have hundreds of products you want to recommend. You can promote product 1 today, product 2 in a few emails, products 3 after another couple of emails and then begin all over again. You can even do it randomly. The trick is (as I've been told) not to seem pushy, and the recommendations to be seen as "by the way...", not as the reason you send out emails.

        And the mindset you should have, or is considered appropriate, is: "the free info will help you solve your problems, but the paid stuff will accelerate the process or make it more enjoyable."

        I hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I send my emails out every 4 days. And on average, it takes my list around 7 emails (28 days) for my customers to buy something else from me. Then i add more and more emails to my autoresponder just to improve my chances of getting a sale from an old customer... increases conversion rates, plus... i have nothing else to do in my life except workout, cook, watch TV, sleep, and oh yeah... make more money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author InTh3Moment
    Okay, thanks all for the replies.

    @Alexa & John, thanks, so now I stand clearly divided between both sides I guess I can always test.

    John, so you tell them that you might benefit from them buying? I just am not seeing how to word this in a smooth way that does not interrupt the flow of their experience (from reading the landing page to opting in to reading and responding to emails).

    Alexa, I am not seeing how I can mention the fact that their purchasing my recommended products will help line my pockets too lol I think I see how humor and being clever about it would make all the difference, yet I'm only clever when it doesn't seem to serve me haha.

    So I understand your reasons for not sharing actual disclosures yet any general examples or just a few ideas for inspiration would be really helpful.

    I mean, in your last sentence, you stated that sometimes mentioning that you're not an affiliate goes over really well, which I think is partly why I am hesitant to mention that I am one (What are the reasons that it would go over really well? Maybe, increased trust and a sense that your recommendations are that much more unbiased - not that they were in the first place).

    Basically, it seems generally incongruent to be telling subscribers, "Look I have your best interests at heart and will only recommend products that I think will be truly helpful to you" while telling them that "I will also make money while doing this." It just seems like the last part is likely to send a conflicting message, since the idea of someone making money from the sale of a product and not being biased at all in recommending it might be hard for people to believe and trust. So any ideas from anyone on how to actually go about this would be appreciated. Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author themanflint
      Most folks are going to be new to what you have to offer and not always are they going to have huge funds. Best to offer value and build a relationship with them. Once you have gained their trust you can start to offer the goodies.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nathan251
        A great question, and one I was intending to ask as I have just started in this area recently too.

        However I think it depends on how established you are also, trust is a huge factor and us newbies fortunately or unfortunately have to work harded to build that. I'm happy enough to just send my list lots of content, guides, tips that I have found useful for the time being, I am still in the process of growing it anyway - however I wouldn't be shy about recommending a great product to my list if it came along but I would have had to have purchased it and used it for a decent length of time and realised it how useful it was before doing so, I certainly would never recommend a product just because it was attached to a name or elite marketer.

        I also have certain figures in mind, in terms of how big my list is before I would consider promoting something but that's just my own personal quirk
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by InTh3Moment View Post

          John, so you tell them that you might benefit from them buying? I just am not seeing how to word this in a smooth way that does not interrupt the flow of their experience (from reading the landing page to opting in to reading and responding to emails).
          I don't interrupt the flow by making the disclosure almost a throw-away. Off the top of my head...

          "By the way, some of the links you'll see will lead you to other sites, where some of them may ask you to do something or buy something. If you do, I may see a little bump from that. Not enough to color my decision to show you the link, but I thought you should know. We all have to keep the lights on somehow, right?"

          Something along that line usually goes in the first email they get after confirming their opt-in. There's a similar disclaimer in the opt-in incentive and somewhere on the site's About page.

          I think the key is to treat people with respect. They know I'm not doing this for fun. I know it, too. So rather than have them wondering where the catch is, I tell them where to look. After that, it's their decision, which it would be even if I didn't tell them.

          Personally, I don't trust people who go to a lot of effort and expense to capture my attention and then tell me they just want to be my friend and wouldn't dream of trying to sell me something. It's usually followed by an attempt to sell me something.

          Why not drag it out into the light? 'Here, see, giving you the straight scoop is in my own self-interest, too'...

          See what I'm saying?
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        • Profile picture of the author Les Blythe
          Originally Posted by Nathan251 View Post


          I also have certain figures in mind, in terms of how big my list is before I would consider promoting something but that's just my own personal quirk
          Picking up on that one for a second Nathan - it's not how big your list is, it's rather at what stage i.e. how long your subscribers have been on your list that is key in the decision of when to promote a product.

          Heads up guys - I bought a report by Shaun O'Reilly this morning which is completely relevant to this discussion. It is excellent and I highly recommend you get it. There is NOTHING in it for me and it is well worth $7 I'm just sharing it with you. Here is the link:

          http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post5810411

          It will help immensley if you do not already have it! No thanks necessary
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by InTh3Moment View Post

      Alexa, I am not seeing how I can mention the fact that their purchasing my recommended products will help line my pockets too lol I think I see how humor and being clever about it would make all the difference, yet I'm only clever when it doesn't seem to serve me haha.
      I don't know whether it might help/interest you at all, but I've found one of my affiliate disclosures from a site I'm not using at the moment. It's not one you'll want to use(!) but it perhaps illustrates (albeit in an unnecessarily long-winded way) how you can clarify, and be open and honest, and reassure them that they're not paying extra this way (essential!) and be a little facetious/amusing at the same time ...

      I earn money from this site. Some of the links to products/services provided herein are "affiliate links". That means that if you click on one of them to go to someone else's site and you then buy something there, I might be paid a commission on it, but always without it costing you a penny more: anything I'm potentially paid by the businesses from whom you buy on my recommendations comes out of their profits, rather than out of your pocket. That's money I spend on hosting and maintaining this and other web sites, and even sometimes on such fripperies as manicure. If, therefore, for reasons best known to yourself, you specifically don't want to contribute to the elegance of my hands, you'd be better off finding the vendor's web site through Google or in some other way. But I warn you now: if my photo on some future web site then shows me wearing gloves, you may end up feeling guilty about it, so think carefully. This is a legal disclosure and I even included the word "herein", in the first line, to make it look like one.
      It's not everyone's style!
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  • Profile picture of the author InTh3Moment
    Thanks John and Alexa, both of your posts help to clarify all of this a lot more.

    @ John, I see what you're saying about trust, yet I have seen some websites that are able to recommend or bring up products in discussions without it even seeming like they are going to benefit (and before I started reading here on WF, I don't think I thought that these site owners were using affiliates most of the time). Just wondering how trusting or skeptical most web surfers are as compared to the people in this forum.

    @ Alexa, I think putting your post together with John's helped me see that there is actually an opportunity to connect more with our viewership here, in announcing disclaimers like the ones you mentioned (i.e. "I'm a person too with bills to pay and other expenses and this is something I put my time and effort into in order to bring you helpful info" etc). The idea of telling them where the money goes really seems to be a great way of building more trust.

    I might have used that disclaimer word for word if it weren't for your heads up, and the fact that my money has never been - nor will it ever be - spent on manicures or "fripperies" lol. Very clever though, much appreciated and enjoyed
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Alexa, what I don't get is the big picture.

    If you constantly syndicate articles in a large ezine for example, and people opt in to your list only to find out that they now receive emails which are pretty much the same as what they've read in the ezine they saw your first articles, don't they get frustrated?

    Or maybe I'm the guy who sees the glass half empty, and they actually don't care that much.

    And one other thing: when you say you sometimes re-write your articles for your autoresponders, how much re-writing is needed? (Excluding the obvious parts, such as tying together with the last email and talking about the next one.)

    And yet another one other thing: I've read in an other thread that personal stories are good for building a relationship with the readers, and that you use them in your emails.

    In general lines, how often should this be done and what does it actually mean? Is it tied together with some useful information, like a story with a moral or something similar? Or do you just brag about the shoes you have?

    Later edit: And I guess the emails with the offers are created from scratch, so the product promotion blends smoothly in the whole email, right? Or is it possible to just send out an article and say at the end something like "Recommended resource"? I've seen that in Paul Uhl's list which he had in his sig.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      If you constantly syndicate articles in a large ezine for example, and people opt in to your list only to find out that they now receive emails which are pretty much the same as what they've read in the ezine they saw your first articles, don't they get frustrated?
      They don't seem to, at all, no - and it won't happen very often, and mostly they'll see about 15 other messages before they happen to recognise anything, I suppose. I don't claim it's "perfect", but avoiding that chance of a disadvantage would require about three times as much work. I could perhaps do it, but I'd probably have 3 niches instead of 8, that way, and earn less than half what I do. :p

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      And one other thing: when you say you sometimes re-write your articles for your autoresponders, how much re-writing is needed? (Excluding the obvious parts, such as tying together with the last email and talking about the next one.)
      Not much re-writing, for me. I meant mostly the "obvious parts".

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      And yet another one other thing: I've read in an other thread that personal stories are good for building a relationship with the readers, and that you use them in your emails.

      In general lines, how often should this be done
      Sorry, I don't know - the frequency of that isn't something I've tested.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Is it tied together with some useful information, like a story with a moral or something similar?
      Yes - I think of them as "reflections" rather than "stories with a moral", but I suspect that what we both mean overlaps in concept.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Or do you just brag about the shoes you have?
      I really do like to discuss shoes, but not in my autoresponder emails, unfortunately. :p

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      And I guess the emails with the offers are created from scratch, so the product promotion blends smoothly in the whole email, right? Or is it possible to just send out an article and say at the end something like "Recommended resource"? I've seen that in Paul Uhl's list which he had in his sig.
      The "product promotion" bit of the email has to be written, it's true, because that won't already be on my site (though the product often will, and a review of it, and so on), but it's not a big deal to make that blend smoothly with something suitable.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        They don't seem to, at all, no - and it won't happen very often, and mostly they'll see about 15 other messages before they happen to recognise anything, I suppose.
        Are you saying that you craft about 15 emails from scratch, and only after that you send out articles already published elsewhere?

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I really do like to discuss shoes, but not in my autoresponder emails, unfortunately. :p
        Well, you could somehow mention shoes in your cauliflower soup niche. You could warn them about the hazards of wearing 17-inch high heels shoes while trying to regurgitate a soup, all in a hurry so the kids are ready for soccer...
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          Are you saying that you craft about 15 emails from scratch, and only after that you send out articles already published elsewhere?



          Well, you could somehow mention shoes in your cauliflower soup niche. You could warn them about the hazards of wearing 17-inch high heels shoes while trying to regurgitate a soup, all in a hurry so the kids are ready for soccer...
          How long are your emails?

          I usually write 100-200 words and get people used to clicking on links back to my website.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            How long are your emails?
            My emails are all over 1,000 words, sometimes even 1,500 with introduction, end and stuff.

            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            I usually write 100-200 words and get people used to clicking on links back to my website.
            I've heard that people like to read stuff into their email clients rather than on websites, because it feels more intimate.

            I don't know about it, and I might test it out sometimes, but for now I'll go with sending the full content in emails and providing links back to my site for additional stuff such as other articles not published elsewhere, videos, podcasts, stories, case studies, product recommendations, etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          Are you saying that you craft about 15 emails from scratch, and only after that you send out articles already published elsewhere?
          No, not at all ... I was simply taking a wild guess that the average number of emails someone will get from me, before they recognise that I've recycled content from an ezine article they've already read, might be about 15.

          I'm not trying to sound "dismissive" of something I see arises as a perfectly reasonable question, but this doesn't matter. Maybe it's less than perfect, but from my point of view, it's far better than any of the sensible alternatives. The articles are what attracted them to subscribe. It's not going to offend or disturb anyone to read something twice.

          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          Well, you could somehow mention shoes in your cauliflower soup niche. You could warn them about the hazards of wearing 17-inch high heels shoes while trying to regurgitate a soup, all in a hurry so the kids are ready for soccer...
          Indeed ... exactly so. (17cm, not 17", though ... mustn't exaggerate! The very highest Louboutins, with a platform, have only 17cm heels).
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  • Profile picture of the author mogulmedia
    I don't send any selling emails for 2 weeks... In that time I simply send good free stuff and even then my sales email is quite low key.

    My plan is to build a slow base of trust and sell infrequently... So far I have had very few unsubscribers...

    As you say though there's no exact science. Just trial and error!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Alexa, the problem I see with sending stuff that was already published elsewhere is that they might not open up subsequent emails, if they recognize 2-3 in a row (or even not in a row).

    But when you think of it, a subscriber that really likes your stuff will open most of your emails and see if the article you've sent him is new, and if yes, read it.

    And since we've established that it's good practice to send articles already published, do you give the subject of the emails the title of the article? Or do you create new ones?
    Just curious.

    My wild guess is that a new title will be better suited in this situation, because if you use the same ones as the articles have, they might recognize them and consequently not open them at all. Of course, even if you use different title wording for the same article and they catch on after they read a paragraph or two, they still might not read further, but who knows, maybe some of them forget (due to the targeted demographics ), and you still get some clicks back to your website.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Alexa, the problem I see with sending stuff that was already published elsewhere is that they might not open up subsequent emails, if they recognize 2-3 in a row (or even not in a row).

      But when you think of it, a subscriber that really likes your stuff will open most of your emails and see if the article you've sent him is new, and if yes, read it.
      Canyon, I think that in this case you might be getting worked up over nothing much.

      Do you know anybody with a collection of DVD movies? Presumably, they've already seen the movie once. They know how it ends. Yet they bought a personal copy.

      I'll wager that you probably know someone who has seen the same movie so many times they know the script better than the director. Right?

      The same goes for books. If you want to learn a lot about a person in a short time, go through their personal library. Some of the books will appear brand new, while some will appear well-used. Certain books will naturally open to a spot where the owner has repeatedly returned.

      The folks behind the "Blue's Clues" TV show for kids did some research and found that kids will happily watch the same episodes over and over. That finding has extended to teens and adults.

      People really like familiar things. A subscriber who "really likes your stuff" won't mind reading the same content more than once, especially if it's within context.

      I'm not saying to link your syndicated articles to the same article on your site. That would be like showing the same TV show back to back and asking people to watch both. If the person did like the show, and that episode in particular, they won't mind an 'encore performance' at a later date.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      when you think of it, a subscriber that really likes your stuff will open most of your emails and see if the article you've sent him is new, and if yes, read it.
      I agree - if you have enough of a continuity process in place, and have designed everything you do in accordance with that, these other things cease to matter. Continuity is everything, I think: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6123982

      Once your open-rate deteriorates much, it can be very difficult to rectify that, whatever you do, so you need to have everything well planned, right from the start, with "open-rate maintenance" specifically in mind. Otherwise you find yourself more or less starting again. "It's easier to give birth than it is to raise the dead." :p

      If you can keep people expecting, opening and reading your emails, you're not going to go far wrong.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      do you give the subject of the emails the title of the article? Or do you create new ones?
      I normally write new titles.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    Big thanks to Alexa and to the OP for this informative thread! I'm staring my own list today, so lots fo learn

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author sriram rajan
    I think we can take 2 different routes, first for purely affiliate marketing with no future aspirations of creating your own products/services in that space we can keep sending emails every second day and keep selling { These are things i learnt from charles kirkland}

    For your authority niche, it makes sense to spend a lot of initial time and get the Ar's in place more for relationship , with the life time value of the customer in mind and only then start selling / offering...
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    • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
      Originally Posted by sriram rajan View Post

      I think we can take 2 different routes, first for purely affiliate marketing with no future aspirations of creating your own products/services in that space we can keep sending emails every second day and keep selling { These are things i learnt from charles kirkland}

      For your authority niche, it makes sense to spend a lot of initial time and get the Ar's in place more for relationship , with the life time value of the customer in mind and only then start selling / offering...
      Excuse the observation, but why can't these two mix together? I'm guessing that in the second case you are referring to product creation.

      What stops you from creating an authority niche website, and only be an affiliate marketer? Some may even argue that this way you come across as more impartial than selling your own stuff.

      Don't forget that as an affiliate, you have a lot of flexibility when choosing products to promote, and can ditch products if/when they don't perform well.
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  • Profile picture of the author michaeljcheney
    You need to think of email marketing like a Scooby Sandwich that has tons of different layers of bread, different meats, salad items and sauce, let me explain...

    THE MEAT - you need to deliver on what you promised them when they opted in
    THE SALAD - the stuff they probably don't want (i.e. your promos), carefully interspersed
    THE SAUCE - keep things spiced up by giving freebies and change up the content and delivery style (text, video, audio, report etc.)

    Scooby Doo marketing - you heard it here first folks... :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author chill_007
    Very good post and lots of great ideas.... Thanks for your efforts.
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  • Profile picture of the author eniggma
    Yes the info in here is all GOLD thanks so much. Alexa has gained a follower in me as I start building a list myself.
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    "Successful people do the things unsuccessful people won't do" - (Somebody successful) :)

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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    there really is too many variables involved

    i often send my subscribers to my blog for content, this works well for me and builds a lot more trust and my subscribers become more engaged

    rather than actually sell something in someones face, including a single link at the bottom of your emails under your name is a much softer way of selling and you will be surprised how many people actually click the link and buy

    you just have to test to see what works best for your traffic and list

    paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Dayne Dylan
    Banned
    Quick question...

    1. Do you put the full text articles in your emails, or do you give teasers in the email and send them to the full article on your site?

    2. How many emails do you have loaded up in your autoresponder currently?

    I'm tired of playing the SEO game, and thanks to Alexa, I'm really thinking of strictly moving to a list building model with a squeeze or mini-site.

    I use to be a PPC guy, but with Google, I got shut-down for ridiculous reasons. But now that I think about it, using PPC with Yahoo/Bing, even FB may cost me a bit up front to get some people into my list initially...but long term, if setup well, hopefully it will pay dividends.

    So, for example, if I used PPC to target my niche, it may cost me (on average) $1-2 per optin lead (just a guess). But if the average lifetime payout per lead is around $4 let's say (just a guess again), then I've doubled my money. Now just take that times 100 or 1000...and that is a nice chunk of change.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Dayne Dylan View Post

      Quick question...

      1. Do you put the full text articles in your emails, or do you give teasers in the email and send them to the full article on your site?
      My own style is to give plenty in an email, and send them long emails (mine like it, from what they say - and they've originally been attracted by long articles and expect plenty of content from me).

      Some of mine have been even longer than what Paul Myers sends out. I think he's a pretty good guy to emulate (for me, anyway - though I'm not sure if the hat would suit me).

      But it's good to give them links to your own site, too. Partly to keep them going back there, and partly because you want them to be used to clicking on your links and expecting and finding something they like. This will increase your CTR when you send them an affiliate promotion. So the sooner you get them used to clicking a link, the better (as long as they find something they like!).

      So, in summary, I put "nearly full text articles" in emails, you could say.

      Sometimes I'll divide a long article in two (if I can do it with only minimal re-writing) and get two emails out of it.

      Originally Posted by Dayne Dylan View Post

      2. How many emails do you have loaded up in your autoresponder currently?
      My longest-standing niche has well over 200 in the series (but I've been in the niche for a long time and written a lot of articles!).

      I'll start attracting traffic with only two there, though.

      Getting your first subscriber is an irresistible incentive to load up some more.
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  • Profile picture of the author footbag_man
    I have tried the 7 day presell with an email every day but it didnt convert well for me.

    Now what I do is
    1. 1 email 5 days before the launch
    2. 1 email the day before the launch
    3. 1 email the day of the launch
    4. 1 email 2 days after the launch


    For higher ticket items I would presell for a month in advance but not too many emails.. Just allows people to save up and prepare for the high price

    Originally Posted by Iriss View Post

    You have a list, of say 100 people and you begin making your auto-responder.

    How many emails do you send before the email that sells something?

    I know "It depends...", but

    What is the average, in your experience?

    1) Please mention the frequency of your auto-responder (5-7 days apart?)

    2) I guess the question I am asking is how long does it take for people to build trust?
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  • Profile picture of the author selfdisciplineacademy
    When a new subscriber enters my list they join 2 autoresponders.

    1 - Pure Content & Trust Building (This is where I share my story, I share amazing content and I share the best of the best that of content I have to share

    2 - 'Targeted autoresponder' that sells a product they are interested in. If they opted in to get a ebook about traffic, I share great traffic strategies and sell a traffic related product.

    Emails in my autoresponder are about 1-2 days apart
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  • Profile picture of the author Dilip Mane
    Your free report or a video by means of which people are subscribed to your list must do a job of initial trust building.

    If it provides that much value then every new subscriber feels like he or she took a good decision to subscribe to your list.

    There is a silent filtering that is continuously running on people's mind about whose mails they should check and read everyday as they know who are the good ones amongst the many marketers they are subscribed to.

    If you are confident that almost half of trust building job has been done by your free gift then ideally it takes only 2 mails before you send any mail that sells something. Those two mails are for focusing the subscriber onto something that would add more value or help in addition to what the free gift has given to them. The promotional mail that follows then does the next job.

    For a scenario other than the above, at least 5 mails are required to build a pre-selling rapport if not trust before you send any promotional mail.
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