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Status of Perry Belcher's Criminal Matter?

by kindsvater
34 replies
Does anyone, perhaps one of the claimed victims, know the status of Perry Belcher's criminal action?

I'm suddenly receiving a number of emails promoting GetMoneyFromGoogle, with various "gurus" claiming Belcher is a personal friend, knows what he is doing, vouching for him, etc.

The GetMoneyFromGoogle site shows a screen shot claiming $1.2 Million in Gross Sales between July 2007 and March 2008.

It's probably not a coincidence that on about March 21, 2008, Belcher was arrested for selling fraudulent ebooks.

For those Warriors selling health-related ebooks, you may want to research this to see what drew the wrath of the FDA, US Post Office, District Attorney, and Tennessee Dept of Revenue. Ouch.

If you're an affiliate, IMHO you'd have to be an idiot to promote something where you could possibly be drawn into a criminal fraud investigation and the "man" is looking for some deep pockets to repay product buyers.

But maybe he was found innocent. Anyone know?
#belcher #criminal #matter #perry #status
  • Profile picture of the author ShayB
    I found this.
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    "Fate protects fools, little children, and ships called Enterprise." ~Commander Riker
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Personally, I think Perry is actually one of the good guys... We don't know the whole story and everything I've ever listened to by Perry has been pretty dam awesome.

    The dude rocks!

    Of course this is my personal opinion.

    Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Pankaew
    I found this:

    Shelby County Sheriff's Office Arrest Lakeland Internet Businessman following Investigation, Search of Properties

    I've listened to Wholesale Traffic Secrets and I was very, very impressed. I have no doubt that he's an amazing marketer.

    However, what he's actually charged with is promoting ghostwritten ebooks as written by medical professionals as well as imitating drugs that he pretended were FDA approved. His skills as a marketer have nothing to do with it.

    Belcher pled guilty, by the way.

    I like the guy. But it's easy as marketers to get caught up in ghostwriting, in product creation, etc that we don't actually look into the legalities of messing with the medical world.

    A real lesson indeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author SelflessMarketer
    I've always been interested in the health type niches, but I've always been nervous because of things like this. There is a lot of money to be made in these niches though.
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  • Profile picture of the author anonymous123567
    Perry is Awesome guys!

    I'm not being naive here, but as far as I've heard he's changed his ways.

    Excellent guy to learn from, I hope he keeps it up with the videos.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Does anyone, perhaps one of the claimed victims, know the status of Perry Belcher's criminal action?

    I'm suddenly receiving a number of emails promoting GetMoneyFromGoogle, with various "gurus" claiming Belcher is a personal friend, knows what he is doing, vouching for him, etc.

    The GetMoneyFromGoogle site shows a screen shot claiming $1.2 Million in Gross Sales between July 2007 and March 2008.

    It's probably not a coincidence that on about March 21, 2008, Belcher was arrested for selling fraudulent ebooks.

    For those Warriors selling health-related ebooks, you may want to research this to see what drew the wrath of the FDA, US Post Office, District Attorney, and Tennessee Dept of Revenue. Ouch.

    If you're an affiliate, IMHO you'd have to be an idiot to promote something where you could possibly be drawn into a criminal fraud investigation and the "man" is looking for some deep pockets to repay product buyers.

    But maybe he was found innocent. Anyone know?
    I'm one of those marketers who promoted Get Money From Google.

    I met Perry at a seminar in Atlanta. He's a cool guy. He's also a BRILLIANT marketer who made $10,000,000 online last year.

    Was it wrong what he did with the health business? Yes.

    On the other hand...

    Does this mean he's not an outstanding marketer? No.

    Just because I or anyone else promoted his product doesn't mean we would make the same error of judgment.

    I personally like Perry. I think he's sharp as a razor and I recommend his products because... well, who else do you know made $10,000,000 last year?
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    • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
      Hey, I was in the "Mens" dietary supplement niche for a while and I can attest to just HOW easy it is to run afoul of the authorities there.

      While we never got in trouble, the hoops we were forced to jump through and the difficulties we had in even promoting the product basically turned me off and got me out of it in short order even though the money can be insane.

      Kudos to Perry for taking his lumps in a stand-up fashion by pleading guilty and making everything right with all his customers.

      I firmly believe that this guy will be back on top in no time.

      Peace,

      Gman
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        I'm not sure why this post has been allowed to stay here....

        Looks like one of those threads that is bound to get out of
        hand as the last one did
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        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

          I'm not sure why this post has been allowed to stay here....

          Looks like one of those threads that is bound to get out of
          hand as the last one did
          Well, maybe when it does, then we can get rid of it. Until that happens, why shouldn't it stay? If we're going to get rid of posts because they "might" get out of hand, we may as well get rid of every one of them.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
            blackhat,

            Originally Posted by blackhatcat View Post

            Well, maybe when it does, then we can get rid of it. Until that happens, why shouldn't it stay? If we're going to get rid of posts because they "might" get out of hand, we may as well get rid of every one of them.
            Maybe because there is no point in bringing up legal issues here. Sure, there could be a marketing lesson to be learned, but surely that could have been done without referencing another warriors legal problems with a link to additional information.

            blah,

            Jeremy
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  • Profile picture of the author bat55w
    I don't know this guy. I am new to this so I have never heard of him before. However, I think that everyone is entitled to screw up, even really big like Perry did. But what really comes thru to me on the video is his sincerety and the fact that he admits to screwing up. These days, so many of our sportstars who get into trouble try to cover it up etc, when they would be so much better off just coming clean, paying your dues and moving on with a little humility. Congrats to Perry for getting this right.
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  • Profile picture of the author DennisM
    Jason,

    Absolutely incredible story! In addition, Mr. Belcher is a very humble man. He definitely "manned up" and told it like it is. All the money in the world can't buy respect.

    I'd be honored to shake his hand. He's earned my respect.

    Thanks for sharing the video Jason.

    Dennis
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    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      I think the topic is worthy.....considering Perry recently joined the Warrior Forum.

      With that said, I personally think the dude is one of the most brilliant marketers out there.

      I have purchased from Perry in the past.... and to be honest.....he's way ahead of the game in many areas including CPA/Google Adwords...as well as viral marketing.

      Keep in mind that the legendary Gary Halbert was arrested at one point in his career....but in the end....we remember Gary for being one of the great ones.....not his prison sentence.

      Perry has paid his debt to society for what ever the government claimed he did......and as far as I'm concerned... I'd buy just about anything he comes out with cuz his information is that damn good.

      He's still one of the greatest marketers a lot of people don't even know...and I have no problem learning from a dude like that...even if he made some mistakes in the past.

      Personally...after reviewing the case...I think Perry's biggest crime was makin' too much money. But that's just Vinnie's take.



      xxx Vegas Vince
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  • Profile picture of the author gareth
    "Infamy is Glorious"

    Perry has 25,001 twitter followers.

    Actually I recall when Perry and Ryan released the PPC course and everybody went bonkers on WF.
    Including me. But I had never heard of PB at that stage - he is certainly a world class expert at marketing online.

    I'm sure the dude will bounce back like FK.
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  • Profile picture of the author Melkor
    His big problem was getting too focused on the sale and too little on making sure the product was up to code.

    If you're going to be in one of the niches that get a lot of federal attention, you'd better have a good lawyer and do as you're told by him/her.

    Eh, well - Kern had his run-in and came back stronger than ever. Other people had similar experiences and came back to commit new offenses and wind up in court yet again, losing everything in the process. (Kevin Trudeau)

    If he's one of the good guys, he'll pull a Kern and come back stronger than ever to be one of the lasting greats.
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  • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
    Selling products that have big claims in the health industry is invitation to disaster. But Perry won't miss a beat and will continue to make a fortune online. He is a great marketer, so like Frank Kern, a brush with the law will be short lived and just a blip in his IM career.
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Does anyone, perhaps one of the claimed victims, know the status of Perry Belcher's criminal action?

    I'm suddenly receiving a number of emails promoting GetMoneyFromGoogle, with various "gurus" claiming Belcher is a personal friend, knows what he is doing, vouching for him, etc.

    The GetMoneyFromGoogle site shows a screen shot claiming $1.2 Million in Gross Sales between July 2007 and March 2008.

    It's probably not a coincidence that on about March 21, 2008, Belcher was arrested for selling fraudulent ebooks.

    For those Warriors selling health-related ebooks, you may want to research this to see what drew the wrath of the FDA, US Post Office, District Attorney, and Tennessee Dept of Revenue. Ouch.

    If you're an affiliate, IMHO you'd have to be an idiot to promote something where you could possibly be drawn into a criminal fraud investigation and the "man" is looking for some deep pockets to repay product buyers.

    But maybe he was found innocent. Anyone know?
    Pled guilty, sentenced to 10 years, all suspended:

    Shelby County man sentenced for health-remedy scam : Local News : Memphis Commercial Appeal

    He was also fined, and has to abide by a bunch of new rules, but nothing that I would think impedes his ability to sell books on adwords.

    Your thoughts?
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Mike75
    I don't think his legal troubles have anything to do with his ability as a marketer. Quite honestly when you get into products in the medical field it can be a very slippery slope, especially when you start making unsubstantiated claims.

    Other than that, I think Perry is one of the sharpest PPC guys out there. His Self Liquidatiing marketing, wholesale traffic system is brilliant, and his techniques have certainly added to my bottom line.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Years ago Dan Kennedy was discussing on a tape the risks of dealing in certain niche products.

    This was pre-internet, btw. Anyway, he mentioned attending an infomercial marketing convention and many of the top sellers that year were under investigation by the state and federal agencies. Something like HALF of all the marketers!!

    Kennedy's line was, "They should subtitle the convention, "If You're Not Indicted, You're Not Invited!" LOL I loved it!
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    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

      Years ago Dan Kennedy was discussing on a tape the risks of dealing in certain niche products.

      This was pre-internet, btw. Anyway, he mentioned attending an infomercial marketing convention and many of the top sellers that year were under investigation by the state and federal agencies. Something like HALF of all the marketers!!

      Kennedy's line was, "They should subtitle the convention, "If You're Not Indicted, You're Not Invited!" LOL I loved it!
      _____
      Bruce


      Absolutely. Dan Kennedy got it right as usual.

      A lot of the haters should take the time to actually review the details of the Perry Belcher case before passing judgement on this man.

      A lot of you'se people will come to same conclusion Vinnie here did....this was a glorified government "shake down."

      A shake down...against a man who made too much money. And the looters wanted some of it!

      Perry Belcher didn't rob...rape...or even steal!

      Let's keep it real, here. This dude's biggest "crime" was the fact he made too much money.....and forgot to dot an "I" or cross a "T".

      This entire case against Perry was one of the biggest jokes ever assembled.....such a joke...the friggin' trigger happy FEDS didn't even want any part of it.

      The dude plead guilty...and they took millions from him...cuz if he hadn't....they'd have taken more then that. That don't make this man "guilty" of anything in my eyes. Ask yourselves...why so many people love this man...and come out and publicaly support him!

      Success in this country....comes with a price. Often a severe price.

      Make sure you'se people are willing to pay it.


      xxx Vegas Vince
      Legend
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  • Profile picture of the author tiffanymor4you
    I think everybody here should take a look at Internet Law Attorney Mike Young's blog referenced earlier at mikeyounglaw.com/wp/2009/01/13/internet-marketing-scams-whats-hot-in-2009/]Internet Marketing Scams: What's Hot in 2009 : Internet Law and Business Blog.

    In particular, I will quote part of it where Mike calls out differnet types of scammers: ... "4. Reformed Sinner. A close cousin to the "Praise Jesus" method, the Internet marketer as reformed sinner tells you he screwed up in the past (note there's no refund for his screwups) but now you can trust him because he's seen the light and started over with a clean slate. Perhaps that's true. But before you buy into this pitch, remember the tale of the scorpion and the frog. It has been my experience that by the time most people are in their late 20s, they've formed the building blocks of their character. If dishonest at that age, chances are they'll be equally dishonest when you do business with them 10, 15, or 20 years later"...

    I tend to agree with Mike Young on this and sadly suspect that Belcher falls into this category.

    If you look at the recent posts section on the blog, you can find his other posts about Perry Belcher.

    A little current research on Belcher at: twitter.com/perrybelcher?page=2 reveals that in addition to his previous career as a "medical researcher," he's also currently in the hotdog business at:

    hotdogcartsecrets.com/index_b.html

    He must have been awfully damn busy with his medical research biz and hot dog stands! What a talented man and jack of all trades!
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    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      Originally Posted by tiffanymor4you View Post

      I think everybody here should take a look at Internet Law Attorney Mike Young's blog referenced earlier at mikeyounglaw.com/wp/2009/01/13/internet-marketing-scams-whats-hot-in-2009/]Internet Marketing Scams: What's Hot in 2009 : Internet Law and Business Blog.

      In particular, I will quote part of it where Mike calls out differnet types of scammers: ... "4. Reformed Sinner. A close cousin to the "Praise Jesus" method, the Internet marketer as reformed sinner tells you he screwed up in the past (note there's no refund for his screwups) but now you can trust him because he's seen the light and started over with a clean slate. Perhaps that's true. But before you buy into this pitch, remember the tale of the scorpion and the frog. It has been my experience that by the time most people are in their late 20s, they've formed the building blocks of their character. If dishonest at that age, chances are they'll be equally dishonest when you do business with them 10, 15, or 20 years later"...

      I tend to agree with Mike Young on this and sadly suspect that Belcher falls into this category.

      If you look at the recent posts section on the blog, you can find his other posts about Perry Belcher.

      A little current research on Belcher at: twitter.com/perrybelcher?page=2 reveals that in addition to his previous career as a "medical researcher," he's also currently in the hotdog business at:

      hotdogcartsecrets.com/index_b.html

      He must have been awfully damn busy with his medical research biz and hot dog stands! What a talented man and jack of all trades!

      Who exactly did Perry Belcher screw???

      I still haven't discovered any real "victim".

      Just curious.....cuz based on what you say...there should be trail of destruction and devestation left in his wake. Where is it???

      Where are they?

      Who are they?

      Do they even exist?


      Funny.....we never seem to hear about "the so-called victims"...lol

      Probably cuz they don't really exist.



      xxx Vegas Vince
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      And this my fellow warriors,

      Originally Posted by tiffanymor4you View Post

      I think everybody here should take a look at Internet Law Attorney Mike Young's blog referenced earlier at mikeyounglaw.com/wp/2009/01/13/internet-marketing-scams-whats-hot-in-2009/]Internet Marketing Scams: What's Hot in 2009 : Internet Law and Business Blog.

      In particular, I will quote part of it where Mike calls out differnet types of scammers: ... "4. Reformed Sinner. A close cousin to the "Praise Jesus" method, the Internet marketer as reformed sinner tells you he screwed up in the past (note there's no refund for his screwups) but now you can trust him because he's seen the light and started over with a clean slate. Perhaps that's true. But before you buy into this pitch, remember the tale of the scorpion and the frog. It has been my experience that by the time most people are in their late 20s, they've formed the building blocks of their character. If dishonest at that age, chances are they'll be equally dishonest when you do business with them 10, 15, or 20 years later"...

      I tend to agree with Mike Young on this and sadly suspect that Belcher falls into this category.

      If you look at the recent posts section on the blog, you can find his other posts about Perry Belcher.

      A little current research on Belcher at: twitter.com/perrybelcher?page=2 reveals that in addition to his previous career as a "medical researcher," he's also currently in the hotdog business at:

      hotdogcartsecrets.com/index_b.html

      He must have been awfully damn busy with his medical research biz and hot dog stands! What a talented man and jack of all trades!
      Is exactly why this thread should not be here.

      I don't know Perry at all. Never spoken to him, not on any of his lists, never bought a single product of his, but I do remember several months ago when this same situation was brought up. The comments and the discussion is general was disgusting.

      I understand that the law is the law, but you can never judge what someones intentions were.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    I remember once having a conversation with a State Trooper about all that he's seen on the highways - about how many drunk drivers he's taken off the roads - those no good druken scumbags! He was very indignent.

    Some time later, he must have forgotten our conversation because he told of the previous weekend when he was at a barbeque about 75 miles from his barracks - more than a few beers in him - when he remembered he was scheduled to be on shift.

    So, he proceeded to drive at high rates of speed on the highways, half in the bag, to make sure he was not late for work (which, incidently, he would show up for STILL half in the bag).

    So, remembering our previous conversation, I asked him what would have happened if he'd gotten pulled over? He said it would not be a problem because he was a trooper - and they had this "professional courtesy" thing going.

    So, he gets indignant at NON cops who drink and drive, yet cops get "professional courtesy". No problem if that drunken cop crashes and hurts someone. Right?

    So what's my point here?

    Simply that we have a world where when somone "crosses a line" in the eyes of the law, they must be downright lowlife scum non deserving of any consideration. But when it comes to looking in the mirror, these same people give themselves a pass - rationalize and even deny anything they've done wrong.

    Ask any poster here who says something silly, like "There's no excuse..." or "He broke the law, therefore..." if THEY have ever done ANYTHING even remotely wrong, odds are they'll tell you what a saint they are.

    Never even rolled through a stop sign.

    It's amazing how many perfect angels we have in the world...

    And before you say it (whoever "you" may be), my rant isn't about whether Perry is right/wrong/a criminal/a genius...

    It's about being honest with yourself - if not with the forum.

    After my conversation with that trooper, I tend to look at those who cast unforgiving stones as those who quite possibly have a few skeletons in their own closets...and I am usually right.

    Ah well, time for bed.

    Night everyone!

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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      After my conversation with that trooper, I tend to look at those who cast unforgiving stones as those who quite possibly have a few skeletons in their own closets...and I am usually right.
      My goodness!

      This is beyond true...

      It's like "they" say; "don't throw stones, when you live in a glass house."

      I couldn't agree with you more.
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    I don't think the issue is whether he did right or wrong (I mean he did plead guilty), I think it's more on whether he has changed like he said and only time will tell for that.

    Face it, actions speak louder than words.

    I for one don't judge him. Heck, I don't even know him. Like Mike A said, we all make mistakes. In the video above, he kind of owns up to this, but still, the proof is in the pudding.

    It will be interesting to see how he progresses and I do hope he is sincere and gets back on top of things. To me, that would be a true success story.

    Thanks,

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Francis
    whoa this is interesteing . I didnt even know who he was lol
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    • Profile picture of the author adamv
      Originally Posted by darknighthatter View Post

      whoa this is interesteing . I didnt even know who he was lol
      I didn't know who he was either but, after watching the video, he seems like a stand up guy to me.

      I don't know any further details about his case. I get the impression that he was not out to scam anyone he simply made some unsubstantiated claims about the products he was selling and the powers that be didn't like it.

      For all I know his products may have been top notch and actually worked wonders for people but if you don't have huge studies showing proof, you can't make certain claims and the authorities came down pretty hard.

      Again, I don't know any details about this case but he seems like a good guy and a smart guy and it would be stupid not to listen to what he has to say about marketing. He obviouly knows a thing or two.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim Russ
        Good Grief! All this fuss over a $27 product?!!!

        ...with a triple guarantee?!

        Come on people. Go buy his product and see for yourself whether THE PRODUCT has any merit. If it does then he's obviously selling quality material. If it's trash just ask for a refund. This is a no brainer.

        ANY marketer who's doing his job is going to tick off a few folks along the way. You just can't make everyone happy all the time. Why live in the past? Why not just move forward.

        He's guilty? He's guilty because he confessed? Tell me you haven't watch Law & Order where they pressure people into caving in to save their hide by 'confessing' to save themselves.

        Is he guilty? Who knows? Who cares? Every successful marketer here will tell you that you have to FAIL to learn. If he's guilty he failed. Hopefully he'll learn. If he isn't guilty then there's nothing to lose.

        I remember when a kid from south east asia scammed the whole marketing community world wide. Even after ripping people off AND getting in everyone's face over it he would have been forgiven and could have become a good marketer.

        He never owned up to anything. He was guilty. The community justifiably fried him. Now Perry owns up to something whether he has done it or not and he gets fried? Talk about double standards!

        The proof is in the behavior. If you're gonna throw a fit about Perry at least have the decency to step up to the plate and buy a ticket to justify your right to complain. You don't buy, you probably aren't qualified to have a negative opinion since you aren't open minded enough to check out his product.

        If he's 'reformed' (assuming he needs to) then he'll provide a quality product. [ Have you actually read his sales page? ]

        Yeah, yeah, I know, I've never purchased anything from him before either. That's gonna change, though. I'm going to buy his product if for no other reason than this nonsensical thread has made me curious to go check out his product.

        Oh, and I'm not one of his JV partners, one of his affiliates, his next door neighbor and have no connection with him whatsoever. I'm thinking about rectifying that, though. Will I get burned? Who knows? Who cares? If I do I'll fail and I'll learn. If I don't I'll be way ahead of those of you who don't!

        Cheers, y'all.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post


    It's probably not a coincidence that on about March 21, 2008, Belcher was arrested for selling fraudulent ebooks.
    Or maybe it is?

    It's probably not a coincidence that a lawyer started
    a thread designed to stir up a debate about a court
    case either.

    Am I the only one who immediately considered the
    phrase "Ambulance chaser"?

    EDIT: I do know one thing.. when my friends are in
    trouble and they need some help, I'll do what I can
    to offer that help.

    It's when you're in trouble you discover who your real
    friends are. I know, I've been there.


    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Erdnase
    This thread astonishes me but maybe it shouldn't.

    Perry Belcher admitted to criminal acts. As I understand it one of the allegations was that he faked testimonials. That's just wrong. There is no wriggle room. He did something wrong.

    I'm sure he's a fantastic at internet marketing.

    Personally I don't want to buy something from someone who has faked testimonials and has admitted criminal wrong doing. Nor will I purchase anything from those who promote his products.

    This might change if, after a decent period of time, he realised he'd done wrong and changed his ways. I don't see any evidence of this.

    And those in this thread who have tried to say it really doesn't matter should think about your values and whether you are doing the right thing.

    And before anyone points it out yes I'm a lawyer but I don't chase ambulances....
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Perry's a dude...

    A good dude..

    It amazes me that SO many people have an opinion when someone's messed up..

    Even more when that same person takes the shots and rolls along, gets bigger and does better...

    I hope Perry Belcher is sittin' on a beach right now, pissed as hell, and when he gets to his hotel room, some friend has mailed him a link to this thread.

    He will know in the back of his mind, that it's just forum chatter..

    If you read this Perry.. have a beer on me.. you deserve it. Your product moved my business forward in ways you could never imagine, your activity in other niches means nothing to me. You are selling me on current content that can help my business.. and it did.

    For that....

    Thanks, dude.

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

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  • Profile picture of the author VictorEE
    Banned
    www--commercialappeal--com --news--2008--sep--30--internet-scammer-sentenced/

    Beginning in 2002, he created Web sites for Selmedica, Increase Media and numerous related enterprises offering scientific research by fictional doctors and fake testimonials from users attesting to the value of his products.

    "We have victims from virtually every continent and there allegedly are several thousand victims," said Steve Crossnoe of the District Attorneys Office White Collar Crime Prosecution Unit. "People were not receiving what they thought they were receiving. The medical research was fictional. The doctors were fictional."


    I came to the forum looking for an answer about what the Internet Marketing community thought about this type of behavior.

    I have to say I'm real disappointed.

    He may be a swell guy. I hope he's sorry he lied and stole folk's money selling fake meds to people for years. I don't wish anybody ill. I hope he really changes.

    But I kinda expected a bit more integrity from this group. If he has character flaws... so do we all. But he is a bad example of being an Internet Marketer and the way y'all are standing up for him promoting his products like its no big deal makes me wonder about the character of any of you guys who think there's no problem selling snake oil or banned marketing methods, or whatever else a person is doing so long as he's making money. Had he been a big oil guy, or a Madoff... you might be not so quick to justify.. but since he's doing what you do and teaching you how to steal like he did so you can put some coin in your pockets.. its all hunky dory??

    I remember when that guy that was talked about from Asia scammed everyone and you guys were really hot!! But maybe this is all a little too close to home so you have to justify his behavior as if the only reason he was wrong was cause he made too much money or got caught.....? Disgusting.
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