The Problem with Most Internet Marketers Is ...

56 replies
... that they're bottom feeders.

That's exactly why the WSO section is so crowded. Everybody wants to follow the crowd, go after the tried, the tested and the rehashed. Nobody wants to pave their own path. Take their own risks. Make their own mistakes.

A large number of aspiring Internet marketers are fine spending weeks or even months doing nothing but searching for that magic pill. But that's getting them nowhere. That's what makes them a part of the 99% ... instead of the successful 1%

Listen up.

If you really, really care about finding success online and reaching your financial goals - you have to stop being at the bottom of the pyramid where it's just plain difficult. And dare to go beyond in order to reach the top.

So who's at the top?
  • The product owner is at the top while his affiliates are at the bottom.
  • The webmaster with 150 successful niche sites is at the top while his article writers are at the bottom.
  • The Internet marketer with a healthy email list of 45,000 subscribers/prospects is at the top while other online marketers who are not building a list are at the bottom.
  • The blogger who worked hard to build a brand for himself and a cult following is at the top while other bloggers who die to guest blog for him are at the bottom.
  • I could go on and on and on ...

So what does it take to get to the top?

That one decision to stop being at the bottom and aiming high - real high.

- Mustafa
#internet #marketers #problem
  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    The webmaster with 150 successful niche sites is at the top while his article writers are at the bottom.
    With all due respect,

    I was just curious as to why you believe that all writers don't have niche websites of their own and therefore classify them as being at the bottom in one foul swoop? :confused:

    Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author xohaibx
      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      With all due respect,

      I was just curious as to why you believe that all writers don't have niche websites of their own and therefore classify them as being at the bottom in one foul swoop? :confused:

      Terra
      I wasn't talking about writers creating content for their own sites and building/growing their online business. I was referring to those writers that aren't using their writing skills to build their own business and are choosing to get paid for growing someone else's business. Hope it clears your doubt
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post

        I wasn't talking about writers creating content for their own sites and building/growing their online business. I was referring to those writers that aren't using their writing skills to build their own business and are choosing to get paid for growing someone else's business. Hope it clears your doubt

        Thank you for the clarification.

        I really do find myself to be detail oriented and always seem to have more questions.

        Excellent motivational post by the way!

        Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author mrjosco
        Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post

        I wasn't talking about writers creating content for their own sites and building/growing their online business. I was referring to those writers that aren't using their writing skills to build their own business and are choosing to get paid for growing someone else's business. Hope it clears your doubt
        If a writer is getting paid to build someone else's business, then aren't they using their skills to make a business?

        So many people here on the warrior forum think they know THE way and THEIR WAY is better than EVERYONE else's.

        Silly, narcissistic and naive.
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        • Profile picture of the author xohaibx
          Originally Posted by mrjosco View Post

          If a writer is getting paid to build someone else's business, then aren't they using their skills to make a business?

          So many people here on the warrior forum think they know THE way and THEIR WAY is better than EVERYONE else's.

          Silly, narcissistic and naive.
          Not necessarily - there's a difference between building a business and "working" for someone

          I never said my way is better than everyone else's - why would I? It was and is an opinion - take it or leave it.

          Like they say, opinions are like noses, everbody has one and they all smell.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
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    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post


      Haha!

      They do say a picture is worth a thousand words! Love it!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Haha!

        They do say a picture is worth a thousand words! Love it!

        Terra

        That is my most commonly used, picture is worth a thousand words.

        Unfortunately, I get to use it quite a bit around here. :p
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        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author KamilTracz
    Mustafa good advices. Many people change plans after this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Originally Posted by tpw View Post

    Thats a nice brush. Is that oak?

    LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author dsouravs
    so u want to say president is the successful citizen of the nation and we all common man r ****ing pigs.

    every job has its own value...no job on earth is small.
    perhaps those at the bottom of ur pyramid r trying hard....isn't it?
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    • Profile picture of the author xohaibx
      Originally Posted by dsouravs View Post

      so u want to say president is the successful citizen of the nation and we all common man r ****ing pigs.

      every job has its own value...no job on earth is small.
      perhaps those at the bottom of ur pyramid r trying hard....isn't it?
      You didn't get my point did you?

      No job is too small, agreed. We're not discussing that.

      My only point is - there's just hell lot of competition at the bottom, and things get easy when you start to aim high.
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      • Profile picture of the author dsouravs
        Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post

        You didn't get my point did you?

        No job is too small, agreed. We're not discussing that.

        My only point is - there's just hell lot of competition at the bottom, and things get easy when you start to aim high.
        Now I got it
        U r true...But U know...even Google started small 1 day...But yes I agree with U...We should aim high and keep working hard.....

        Thnx
        Take Care
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  • Profile picture of the author Devin X
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post

    ... that they're bottom feeders.

    That's exactly why the WSO section is so crowded. Everybody wants to follow the crowd, go after the tried, the tested and the rehashed. Nobody wants to pave their own path. Take their own risks. Make their own mistakes.

    A large number of aspiring Internet marketers are fine spending weeks or even months doing nothing but searching for that magic pill. But that's getting them nowhere. That's what makes them a part of the 99% ... instead of the successful 1%

    Listen up.

    If you really, really care about finding success online and reaching your financial goals - you have to stop being at the bottom of the pyramid where it's just plain difficult. And dare to go beyond in order to reach the top.

    So who's at the top?
    [LIST][*]The product owner is at the top while his affiliates are at the bottom.[*]The webmaster with 150 successful niche sites is at the top while his article writers are at the bottom.[*]The Internet marketer with a healthy email list of 45,000 subscribers/prospects is at the top while other online marketers who are not building a list are at the bottom.[*]The blogger who worked hard to build a brand for himself and a cult following is at the top while other bloggers who die to guest blog for him are at the bottom.
    I would've just said that they're L-A-Z-Y, but ok.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by dsouravs View Post

    so u want to say president is the successful citizen of the nation and we all common man r ****ing pigs.

    every job has its own value...no job on earth is small.
    perhaps those at the bottom of ur pyramid r trying hard....isn't it?

    I think you are reading more into it than what he said.
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    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I think you are reading more into it than what he said.
      Bill,

      Could you splane that?


      George Wright
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Theres an old saying, goes something like this:

    "Shoot for the moon. That way if you miss, you'll still land amongst the stars"

    Pretty deep, eh? haha
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  • Profile picture of the author AceOfShirts
    You also need to distinguish between those who stay at the bottom and those who start at the bottom.

    Everybody needs to learn their IM skills somewhere, and it usually starts with working for someone else or "the bottom" as you put it.

    Once they have learned the craft they should start to move off of the bottom and start creating their own products and websites. Those that stay at the bottom have the problem.

    It also depends on what people have set for their goals. Some may be happy just writing articles or performing other services. They might not have the time and skills to become a Guru. It might just be a part time income for them.

    Hopefully those who stay at the bottom will realize that the services they are performing are worth more than they are being paid for them. If somebody is paying $10 to have an article written then they must plan on making more than the $10 from it.

    Some people are also happy with the Quick Cash that comes from writing an article. Not everyone wants the slow residual income that would come from the Adsense ads that will be clicked on by people visiting the page where the article is posted.
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    • Profile picture of the author xohaibx
      Originally Posted by Ace Of Shirts View Post

      You also need to distinguish between those who stay at the bottom and those who start at the bottom.

      Everybody needs to learn their IM skills somewhere, and it usually starts with working for someone else or "the bottom" as you put it.

      Once they have learned the craft they should start to move off of the bottom and start creating their own products and websites. Those that stay at the bottom have the problem.

      It also depends on what people have set for their goals. Some may be happy just writing articles or performing other services. They might not have the time and skills to become a Guru. It might just be a part time income for them.

      Hopefully those who stay at the bottom will realize that the services they are performing are worth more than they are being paid for them. If somebody is paying $10 to have an article written then they must plan on making more than the $10 from it.

      Some people are also happy with the Quick Cash that comes from writing an article. Not everyone wants the slow residual income that would come from the Adsense ads that will be clicked on by people visiting the page where the article is posted.
      But most of them want to get rich

      I agree with you - starting at the bottom is not wrong, as long as you're aiming at the top. If you choose to stay at the bottom, you won't die, but things will be a lot more difficult.

      Either way, you're working hard - why not do it for a bigger goal?
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
      Originally Posted by Ace Of Shirts View Post

      ...Some people are also happy with the Quick Cash that comes from writing an article. Not everyone wants the slow residual income that would come from the Adsense ads that will be clicked on by people visiting the page where the article is posted.
      Bingo.

      It's the reason why *I* chose to write for others instead of
      myself at first because the money was faster and apparently
      *easier*, and yet I'm here to tell everyone a secret I wished
      I'd learn over a year ago...

      in the end you burn out with nothing to show for it.

      No assets.

      No websites.

      No residual income.

      It's a hamster wheel that goes around and around giving you
      the * illusion* of progress while in reality going *nowhere*.

      Of course, you tell yourself you're making progress. You want
      to *believe* you're going somewhere -- but you're spinning in
      circles -- literally.

      Is writing for cash a bad deal? No. It's quite lucrative, actually
      and I still do it from time to time for extra cash to invest in my
      other business ventures -- but I've stopped treating it like it
      was a business months ago.

      Truth is although the residual income from a adsense website
      takes longer to materialiaze...seriously...what else do you have
      better to do with your time?

      Will it *kill* you to develop 10 adsense sites that generate a
      $1000 - $2000 monthly residual income developed over a three
      month time period?

      What else *better* do you have to do? The time will pass any
      way and when you look back you'll realize you would be exactly
      where you want to be financially had you taken your own skills
      and talent and put it towards the growth of your own business.

      Do the work once. Manage it every couple of weeks and you'll
      never have to write another article for anyone else a day in
      your life (unless you choose too). Better to have a choice in
      the matter...than no choice at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author Palusko
        Having Adsense sites means complete and utter dependency on Google. I'm not sure I'd call that a better business model than establishing a copywriting business.

        Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post

        Will it *kill* you to develop 10 adsense sites that generate a
        $1000 - $2000 monthly residual income developed over a three
        month time period?
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

          Having Adsense sites means complete and utter dependency on Google. I'm not sure I'd call that a better business model than establishing a copywriting business.
          Benjamin is suggesting that you have AdSense sites and the copywriting business, which is not complete and utter dependency on anything.

          Google problems? You have the copywriting.

          Slow season and no clients? You have the AdSense.

          Pepsi does not just sell cola.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Palusko
            "Is writing for cash a bad deal? No. It's quite lucrative, actually
            and I still do it from time to time for extra cash to invest in my
            other business ventures -- but I've stopped treating it like it
            was a business months ago."

            -this makes me think otherwise.

            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            Benjamin is suggesting that you have AdSense sites and the copywriting business, which is not complete and utter dependency on anything.

            Google problems? You have the copywriting.

            Slow season and no clients? You have the AdSense.

            Pepsi does not just sell cola.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

        this makes me think otherwise.

        How about this:

        Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post

        Better to have a choice in
        the matter...than no choice at all.
        If you're entirely dependent on Google, where is the choice?

        Clearly he's not imagining that you'll be wholly dependent on Google. He's suggesting you develop multiple income streams.
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Palusko
          The choice you're referring to was to stop writing for others and build AdSense sites instead. And, if you still choose to write for others, then put the money in those adsense sites. The purpose of the Adsense sites was to have enough income, so you can STOP writing articles for others, not so that you diversify your activities and income streams. In other words, that Adsense income is better than income from copywriting. At least that's how I understood it.

          Maybe he was talking about multiple income streams and he used this only as an example. In this case it does not matter anyway because the OP was not discussing multiple income streams. He was simply giving examples of IM foodchain. And that's what I happened to disagree with, not with the notion of importance of diversifying (I certainly agree with that).
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          How about this:

          If you're entirely dependent on Google, where is the choice?

          Clearly he's not imagining that you'll be wholly dependent on Google. He's suggesting you develop multiple income streams.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

            The choice you're referring to was to stop writing for others and build AdSense sites instead.
            Wrong:

            "you'll never have to write another article for anyone else a day in your life (unless you choose too)."

            That's the choice. Writing when you choose to, not because it's your main source of income.

            In this case it does not matter anyway because the OP was not discussing multiple income streams.
            You can't criticise a post in the middle of a thread and then say it doesn't matter because that's not what the OP was about.

            He was simply giving examples of IM foodchain. And that's what I happened to disagree with
            "Having Adsense sites means complete and utter dependency on Google. I'm not sure I'd call that a better business model"

            Where's the food chain reference in this quote?

            As far as the basic idea of the IM food chain, it's a simple fact: when your business depends on...

            - Selling someone else's products
            - Writing for someone else's niche blogs
            - Promoting to someone else's list
            - Guest blogging on someone else's site

            ...then there is someone else higher up the food chain who controls your business.

            If you have your own products, then if every someone else in the world kicks you out of their affiliate program, you've got your own product.

            If you have your own niche blogs, then if every someone else decides to just use spun PLR instead of hiring writers, you've got your own niche blogs.

            If you have your own list, then if every someone else decides they won't sell you any more solo ads, you've got your own list.

            If you have your own blog, then if every someone else decides not to let you guest blog anymore, you've got your own blog.

            If you want a sustainable business, you have to build things you own. Assets you control. That doesn't mean you should never ever ever do anything on someone else's products, blogs, or lists. It means you shouldn't build your business on a foundation of someone else's stuff.

            And yes, I'm aware that lots of people do this. Carolina pig farmers store manure in big pits on the flood plain, too. And until the flood a couple years back, everything was just fine... but then there was a flood, and the manure got into the water supply, and bottled water started being really important all of a sudden if you didn't want E. coli.

            Everything is always just fine until it goes wrong.
            Signature
            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Palusko
              Everything is a choice. Even what part of the quote you decide to reply to and what part you decide to ignore.
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              Wrong:

              "you'll never have to write another article for anyone else a day in your life (unless you choose too)."

              That's the choice. Writing when you choose to, not because it's your main source of income.
              I just did, so yes, I could. But in reality, it was not a criticism. It was an attempt to end this back-and-forth that was going nowhere and a try to return back to the OP.
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              You can't criticise a post in the middle of a thread and then say it doesn't matter because that's not what the OP was about.
              Selling someone else's stuff is the core of every retail business.

              I think WhoIsBenjamin explained what he meant quite clearly, including the who-depends-on-whom notion. And he's right - there's always someone you'll depend on. Even if you make your own product or offer your own services to others.

              After all, you still need suppliers and distribution, and most importantly - customers. And it is customer's who ultimately decide whether you are better off (meaning making more money) selling them your product, or someone else's.

              Because the "if someone else decides..." notion goes both ways. If I am dropped from affiliate program, I join another one. If I can't do solo ad with one provider, I go to another one. ETC.

              Bottom line is, direct and indirect dependency on other business is unavoidable and there's always more than one ways to approach it.

              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              "Having Adsense sites means complete and utter dependency on Google. I'm not sure I'd call that a better business model"

              Where's the food chain reference in this quote?

              As far as the basic idea of the IM food chain, it's a simple fact: when your business depends on...

              - Selling someone else's products
              - Writing for someone else's niche blogs
              - Promoting to someone else's list
              - Guest blogging on someone else's site

              ...then there is someone else higher up the food chain who controls your business.

              If you have your own products, then if every someone else in the world kicks you out of their affiliate program, you've got your own product.

              If you have your own niche blogs, then if every someone else decides to just use spun PLR instead of hiring writers, you've got your own niche blogs.

              If you have your own list, then if every someone else decides they won't sell you any more solo ads, you've got your own list.

              If you have your own blog, then if every someone else decides not to let you guest blog anymore, you've got your own blog.

              If you want a sustainable business, you have to build things you own. Assets you control. That doesn't mean you should never ever ever do anything on someone else's products, blogs, or lists. It means you shouldn't build your business on a foundation of someone else's stuff.

              And yes, I'm aware that lots of people do this. Carolina pig farmers store manure in big pits on the flood plain, too. And until the flood a couple years back, everything was just fine... but then there was a flood, and the manure got into the water supply, and bottled water started being really important all of a sudden if you didn't want E. coli.

              Everything is always just fine until it goes wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
          CDarklock and Palusko, I'll clear things up.

          Here's what I meant:

          I didn't mean for it to turn into a back and forth sort
          of debate and I didn't intend to sidetrack discussions
          of the original thread. I just *expanded* on another
          problem most IM'ers have.

          With that said...

          Palusko, did you see my hamster analogy?

          It's simple one most can relate to. It describes what
          I've been trying to say perfectly:

          In regards to the original threads sub-topic on writing
          for profit...

          they'll always be *stuck* regardless how fast they
          run that wheel.

          It gives the illusion of progress because of the speed
          in which it turns -- yet your running in place.

          ...certainly not a *bad* thing if that's what you want
          to do and it IS your ultimate goal or career.

          In that case, you're running your own race, not some
          one else's.

          Problem is for MOST people getting into the game they
          get into freelancing as a way to build a online business
          and get *stuck* there BECAUSE it's more comfortable...

          as I have, admittedly.

          CDarklock said it best...although I used Adsense as an
          example there are many, MANY ways to build a residual
          stream of income using your OWN skills and talents.

          Most people would kill to have a firm grasp on words to
          sell anything they want...and many of them choose to
          write for others *by choice*...some write for others b/c
          of *fear* to do it for themselves...and some (like me)
          *forget* what I started writing for in the first place
          (residual income).

          You could argue how Adsense can shut you down...

          so can *Clickbank*.

          so can a *major payment processer*.

          So can a major list service (Aweber/Getresponse) for
          *no apparent reason at all* (or so MOST of them say
          ...besides, you in their right mind will admit THEY were
          in the wrong?)

          I know multi-millionaires who made their fortune under
          one direct sales company...they're rich and even they
          have people they have to answer to.

          Hell, the people who answer to THOSE people have to
          answer to people --

          the Government!

          ...and so on.

          There is always going to be something or someone
          above you pulling the strings -- the difference is how
          many of your strings do you want to be pulled?

          All 100 of them? Or just 10 or 12?

          There is no right wrong answer. Just a choice. Some
          people want the comfort of having less control with
          big money upfront.

          ...others PREFER more control with LESS money upfront
          with potential bigger gains in the future (or none at all).

          I am the LATER, and you are the FORMER.

          Absolutely NOTHING right or wrong with either choice.

          Forgive me if I can't respond at all anymore at this
          point because I am working on building my residuals...

          and my business isn't here -- although it's entertaintaining
          from time to time.




          Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

          The choice you're referring to was to stop writing for others and build AdSense sites instead. And, if you still choose to write for others, then put the money in those adsense sites. The purpose of the Adsense sites was to have enough income, so you can STOP writing articles for others, not so that you diversify your activities and income streams. In other words, that Adsense income is better than income from copywriting. At least that's how I understood it.

          Maybe he was talking about multiple income streams and he used this only as an example. In this case it does not matter anyway because the OP was not discussing multiple income streams. He was simply giving examples of IM foodchain. And that's what I happened to disagree with, not with the notion of importance of diversifying (I certainly agree with that).
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          How about this:



          If you're entirely dependent on Google, where is the choice?

          Clearly he's not imagining that you'll be wholly dependent on Google. He's suggesting you develop multiple income streams.
          Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author buckeyes09
      Originally Posted by Ace Of Shirts View Post

      You also need to distinguish between those who stay at the bottom and those who start at the bottom.

      Everybody needs to learn their IM skills somewhere, and it usually starts with working for someone else or "the bottom" as you put it.

      Once they have learned the craft they should start to move off of the bottom and start creating their own products and websites. Those that stay at the bottom have the problem.

      It also depends on what people have set for their goals. Some may be happy just writing articles or performing other services. They might not have the time and skills to become a Guru. It might just be a part time income for them.

      Hopefully those who stay at the bottom will realize that the services they are performing are worth more than they are being paid for them. If somebody is paying $10 to have an article written then they must plan on making more than the $10 from it.

      Some people are also happy with the Quick Cash that comes from writing an article. Not everyone wants the slow residual income that would come from the Adsense ads that will be clicked on by people visiting the page where the article is posted.
      The best (well, besides the picture) post in this thread. You have to start from somewhere and hopefully people realize what they're worth soon.
      Signature

      Christian

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  • Profile picture of the author ukcarl
    So true, thats why outsourcing to scale your business is the way to go once you find something that works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    The bottom feeder often comes back to bite the top dweller in the a$$. Learning to leverage is one of the most profitable ventures in life .. on and off line.

    That writer that started out writing $5 articles may have learned enough about your niche and business to put you out of business. You gave them the opportunity ... you paid them to research your niche ...then you gave them the motivation by coming on to a public forum and calling them bottom feeders.

    There are several affiliate marketers who figured out long ago they could make a lot more than the product producer by selling their crap for 75% .. buying the product .. revamping it in a way that will really work .. and using the same traffic driving ability they use as an affiliate and making 100% on your failure of a product.

    The guest blogger that has a proper funnel set up will surpass the person who thinks they have it all and allows the guest blogger the chance to post for them.

    Someone that can produce great content ... with a tiny amount of knowledge on leverage, can always float to the top.
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    • Profile picture of the author xohaibx
      Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

      The bottom feeder often comes back to bite the top dweller in the a$$. Learning to leverage is one of the most profitable ventures in life .. on and off line.

      That writer that started out writing $5 articles may have learned enough about your niche and business to put you out of business. You gave them the opportunity ... you paid them to research your niche ...then you gave them the motivation by coming on to a public forum and calling them bottom feeders.

      There are several affiliate marketers who figured out long ago they could make a lot more than the product producer by selling their crap for 75% .. buying the product .. revamping it in a way that will really work .. and using the same traffic driving ability they use as an affiliate and making 100% on your failure of a product.

      The guest blogger that has a proper funnel set up will surpass the person who thinks they have it all and allows the guest blogger the chance to post for them.

      Someone that can produce great content ... with a tiny amount of knowledge on leverage, can always float to the top.
      Agree. But how "often" does that happen?
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
        A lot more often than you would think.

        I do guest blogging for 2 people high on the chain in IM. Don't cost them anything ... I simply do three post for them a week in exchange for one post of my own each week.

        I write less than 3000 words a week between the two and honestly could write those 8 post ... 2 of them forward my cause, and sit back and do nothing else. How many do you know that write articles and submit them to EZA can say that?

        I will very seldom write for a set fee anymore ... I would rather write a series of followups for the list owner that has 20,000 members and get a free solo as to get paid the $1500 or so the task would normally pay.

        Same goes with SEO .. now I can more than likely go into any niche and .. set up my authority type site and then feed it with low hanging fruit until it reaches number one on Google.

        I still find it more profitable to contact those in the top fold and offer them what they need to advance, in trade for a prominent media placement.

        I learned some of this on my own but .. a lot of it was learned from others doing the same thing. If a not overly educated hillbilly from Ga can learn to basically leverage everything they do .. I am almost positive there is a lot of people already doing this too.

        Now I do a lot more than just guest blog or just write for that matter. I might even consider building a list with those two examples above and then have instant traffic to send to affiliate offers, high click price adsense pages, CPA caps, might even set up my own products and have instant traffic for the warming.

        Just because someone appears to not be at the top .. own 150 mini sites .. have a list of 45,000 or whatever means very little .. that same person may have dozens of people at their disposal with list ranging from 10,000 to 100,000 or more.

        The same person could know several people that have 100 or more sites going that are popular and that same person could have developed a relationship to the point of having media on every one of those sites.

        Now who is working smarter not harder .. the person who spent all the time and resources to build a 45,000 member list .. or 100 sites .. or the person who saw the opportunity to leverage what they do .. maybe write a couple a days a month to access all the top feeder has acquired?


        Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post

        Agree. But how "often" does that happen?
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

      The bottom feeder often comes back to bite the top dweller in the a$$. Learning to leverage is one of the most profitable ventures in life .. on and off line.

      That writer that started out writing $5 articles may have learned enough about your niche and business to put you out of business. You gave them the opportunity ... you paid them to research your niche ...then you gave them the motivation by coming on to a public forum and calling them bottom feeders.

      There are several affiliate marketers who figured out long ago they could make a lot more than the product producer by selling their crap for 75% .. buying the product .. revamping it in a way that will really work .. and using the same traffic driving ability they use as an affiliate and making 100% on your failure of a product.

      The guest blogger that has a proper funnel set up will surpass the person who thinks they have it all and allows the guest blogger the chance to post for them.

      Someone that can produce great content ... with a tiny amount of knowledge on leverage, can always float to the top.
      Actually, if you think about it, isn't this exactly what the OP is enticing the described "bottom feeder" to do in this inspirational post?

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
        No .. the OP is basically lost in their own ideals of what success is to the point of not seeing the bigger picture. Of painting the entire WF as a covey of bottom feeders.

        I see nothing inspirational in the thread at all .. if you are going to inspire .. offer insight into how to get away from what you consider the bottom.




        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Actually, if you think about it, isn't this exactly what the OP is enticing the described "bottom feeder" to do in this inspirational post?

        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

          No .. the OP is basically lost in their own ideals of what success is to the point of not seeing the bigger picture. Of painting the entire WF as a covey of bottom feeders.

          I see nothing inspirational in the thread at all .. if you are going to inspire .. offer insight into how to get away from what you consider the bottom.
          I see your point especially using a derogatory description such as "bottom feeders".

          I also didn't get the connection that he was referring to the WF only, but that's neither here nor there.

          The motivation part I speak of is, if you don't like being a so-called bottom feeder, put more effort in your online endeavors, think of expanding, etc., and you too can become more successful.

          Different people are moved by different methods of motivation. Some by being called names to incite them to say BS, watch me prove you wrong, others by gentle encouragement, for example.

          Gary Halbert once said, "By offending nobody, you impassion nobody"

          Maybe I was looking at the glass half full?

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author George Wright
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            The motivation part I speak of is, if you don't like being a so-called bottom feeder, put more effort in your online endeavors, think of expanding, etc., and you too can become more successful.
            Really, If I don't like being called a bottom feeder I simply do not call myself a bottom feeder. What anyone else calls me is none of my business.

            George Wright
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

              Really, If I don't like being called a bottom feeder I simply do not call myself a bottom feeder. What anyone else calls me is none of my business.

              George Wright
              My example wasn't in reference to you, apparently.

              I don't call my self a bottom feeder either. :p

              Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingChad
    Aim high yes...but there is still room on the bottom to compete if you are providing quality products or services. A lot of crappy WSOs but there are goods ones too....just think about everything you do and see if you're giving it your all and providing the most value possible. Those who take the shortcuts are the ones I would call "bottom feeders"
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  • Profile picture of the author aldentan
    I think the problem with all internet marketers is that, as a start at least they try to look for that magic pill, which doesn't exist.

    It all requires real hard work and patience.
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  • Profile picture of the author Palusko
    This whole post is condescending on so many levels and has such flawed logic, that I am not even sure what the point is. Is it supposed to be motivational, entertaining, informative.... or what?

    1. Even very wealthy and successful IMers promote (that is, are affiliates) OTHER products. There are some super affiliates who are way more successful than most IMers with their own products. BTW, people promote their own products in the WSO section. If all that is needed to be on the top is to sell your own product, then by that logic, everyone selling their WSO should be on the top now.
    2. Business to Business is a standard business model. So thinking that owning 150 sites is somehow more successful than having a copywriting business is just flawed logic.
    3. Of course an established business with 45k list is much closer to the top than a start up business. But from your post I am under the impression, that this step can be somehow skipped. Otherwise, why would you even bring it up?
    4. Once again, you are comparing established brand with one that is in the process of establishing it. Of course the established brand has an upper hand, and of course the starting blogger would love to guest blog on well known blog. But wasn't the established brand in the same position at some point too? BTW, I saw many successful bloggers guest blog on other sites.

    I just don't know what the bottom line (or moral) of your post is.

    Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post

    So who's at the top?
    • The product owner is at the top while his affiliates are at the bottom.
    • The webmaster with 150 successful niche sites is at the top while his article writers are at the bottom.
    • The Internet marketer with a healthy email list of 45,000 subscribers/prospects is at the top while other online marketers who are not building a list are at the bottom.
    • The blogger who worked hard to build a brand for himself and a cult following is at the top while other bloggers who die to guest blog for him are at the bottom.
    • I could go on and on and on ...
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    • Profile picture of the author steven sanderson
      Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

      This whole post is condescending on so many levels and has such flawed logic, that I am not even sure what the point is. Is it supposed to be motivational, entertaining, informative.... or what?

      1. Even very wealthy and successful IMers promote (that is, are affiliates) OTHER products. There are some super affiliates who are way more successful than most IMers with their own products. BTW, people promote their own products in the WSO section. If all that is needed to be on the top is to sell your own product, then by that logic, everyone selling their WSO should be on the top now.
      2. Business to Business is a standard business model. So thinking that owning 150 sites is somehow more successful than having a copywriting business is just flawed logic.
      3. Of course an established business with 45k list is much closer to the top than a start up business. But from your post I am under the impression, that this step can be somehow skipped. Otherwise, why would you even bring it up?
      4. Once again, you are comparing established brand with one that is in the process of establishing it. Of course the established brand has an upper hand, and of course the starting blogger would love to guest blog on well known blog. But wasn't the established brand in the same position at some point too? BTW, I saw many successful bloggers guest blog on other sites.

      I just don't know what the bottom line (or moral) of your post is.
      [/LIST]
      Fine words and very very true, great comment, i was wondering where this thread was going lol

      where is the bottom and where is the top !!!!!

      PS.....Great looking brush by the way, that made me giggle

      All the best to everyone
      Steven
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post

    his article writers
    Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

    all writers
    These are not the same thing.

    If you are writing articles for someone who has 150 niche sites, you are being paid:
    (what your article will make) - (what he puts in his pocket)
    This is necessarily less than you would make writing for your own niche site, which pays:
    (what your article will make)
    If you want to be truly horrified, get a bunch of articles of varying quality, and test them to see how much money they make.

    The price drops faster than the revenue.

    On top of that, cheap crappy article writers are easier to find. So you actually make more money hiring those people than you do hiring quality writers, because while revenue goes down, margin goes up.

    It ends up being something like this:
    Single premium article that makes $1,000 - $500; profit $500, 100%

    Ten decent articles that make $1,000 - $250; profit $750, 300%

    A hundred crap articles that make $1,000 - $50; profit $950, 1900%
    It's like buying $5 bills for a quarter.

    Now, I'm not saying this is the way you should build your business. But while that single premium article at the top might be more popular and get more word of mouth than the hundred garbage articles at the bottom, you can buy an awful lot of ad space and SEO service for $950.

    It's also worth nothing that there's nothing wrong with being a bottom feeder... but it's still a problem.

    Lots of problems are like that. If you don't make enough money and you clean toilets, the problem is that you clean toilets. It's not wrong to clean toilets. Toilets do, after all, need to be cleaned. But it's still the problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author JEasy
    Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post

    ... that they're bottom feeders.

    That's exactly why the WSO section is so crowded. Everybody wants to follow the crowd, go after the tried, the tested and the rehashed. Nobody wants to pave their own path. Take their own risks. Make their own mistakes.

    A large number of aspiring Internet marketers are fine spending weeks or even months doing nothing but searching for that magic pill. But that's getting them nowhere. That's what makes them a part of the 99% ... instead of the successful 1%

    Listen up.

    If you really, really care about finding success online and reaching your financial goals - you have to stop being at the bottom of the pyramid where it's just plain difficult. And dare to go beyond in order to reach the top.

    So who's at the top?
    • The product owner is at the top while his affiliates are at the bottom.
    • The webmaster with 150 successful niche sites is at the top while his article writers are at the bottom.
    • The Internet marketer with a healthy email list of 45,000 subscribers/prospects is at the top while other online marketers who are not building a list are at the bottom.
    • The blogger who worked hard to build a brand for himself and a cult following is at the top while other bloggers who die to guest blog for him are at the bottom.
    • I could go on and on and on ...

    So what does it take to get to the top?

    That one decision to stop being at the bottom and aiming high - real high.

    - Mustafa
    Lol you must have had a great sales day to make a post like this. It did come off as just a bit condescending however. Grats on your success.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Mcalorum
    the problem with most newbie internet marketers is...

    They want everything handed to them on a silver platter.
    And all too often they don't want to have to work AT ALL to get it.

    Its a shame really.
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    • Profile picture of the author JEasy
      Originally Posted by David Mcalorum View Post

      the problem with most newbie internet marketers is...

      They want everything handed to them on a silver platter.
      And all too often they don't want to have to work AT ALL to get it.

      Its a shame really.
      It's not all their fault though. They're sold the dream of quick profits and then are chastised for actually believing it. Make money online is a brutal niche for sure. I've learned a lot just reading this forum. Why so harsh on the newbies??
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      • Profile picture of the author David Mcalorum
        Originally Posted by JEasy View Post

        It's not all their fault though. They're sold the dream of quick profits and then are chastised for actually believing it. Make money online is a brutal niche for sure. I've learned a lot just reading this forum. Why so harsh on the newbies??
        I said most newbies, not all newbies.

        I just like working with people that are as serious about
        their business as I am. That's all.
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  • Profile picture of the author lucidsuccess
    Originally Posted by Mustafa Khundmiri View Post


    That one decision to stop being at the bottom and aiming high - real high.

    - Mustafa
    Aim high, go above and beyond and be consistent will take you to the top. Not over ngiht
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  • I actually agree with the OP in that most IM'ers are bottom feeders and they remain there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kael41
    I agree, most will be in that small sale (earn < $xx or $xxx per month) mode. Not sure if I will call them bottom feeders, so I'll call them cherry pickers instead Low hanging fruit is always easiest to grab. Once you start learning on how to make more and more money, you start to evolve into something more than what you started out as. It's an evolution that not many people make because they fail out, lose motivation, don't have the necessary drive or smarts. Yes, I went there. Some people aren't smart enough to succeed. Lucky? Sure. Smart? That's conjecture.
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  • Profile picture of the author lucynora
    I think the problem with internet marketers today is that they simply cannot prioritize their tasks and tend to do everything at the same time, ending up with nothing done.

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I think the separation factor here is that many people are just opportunistic money making opportunity seekers. This tends to leave them at the bottom of the pile, while the others understand its a business and are willing to take action to build it.
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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    WOW you did stir up a lot of different emotions. you have hurt some and set some minds thinking; which I think is a sign of a good blogger. Yes the world works on the principles of pyramid and the small fish becomes the fodder for the large ones. Most gamblers lose so one can win. Thats how the world works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daystar11
    I found the post mostly motivational, if what you want IS to succeed, to rise to the top, by thinking outside the box. Thing is, its OK to not want that. Some people have humbler aspirations.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Lewis
    Its all in the mindset you have.Most IM'ers does not realize that they are bottom feeders,what they want is quick money!
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    Lets work together! :)

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  • Profile picture of the author AldonaMotyka
    Is it not where everybody starts,you including?
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