Paypal Suspension – was it JV Giveaways, WSO Pro, or JV Zoo? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

mosthost

11 years ago

That's a real shock after 8 years. Pick up the phone and demand they get more specific.

Thanks
1 reply

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Keith_Purkiss

11 years ago

Thanks Mosthost - I have already phoned them and they said it was the 'type' of products being sold.
I expect this to be resloved within 24 to 48 hours but I just wanted to let other
people know of the issue especially as far as JV Giveaways go as I haven't heard of an issue with those before.

Thanks
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tpw

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Keith_Purkiss

Thanks Mosthost - I have already phoned them and they said it was the 'type' of products being sold.
I expect this to be resloved within 24 to 48 hours but I just wanted to let other
people know of the issue especially as far as JV Giveaways go as I haven't heard of an issue with those before.

So your subject line is a red herring.

The did not Limit you because of WSO Pro or JV Zoo.

They limited you because of a "specific product" that you were selling!!

Some affiliate offers that show up in the WSO or another marketplace are against the PayPal TOS.

If you are careful about what you promote, then these problems would happen far less often.

Thanks
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Keith_Purkiss

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

So your subject line is a red herring.

The did not Limit you because of WSO Pro or JV Zoo.

They limited you because of a "specific product" that you were selling!!

Some affiliate offers that show up in the WSO or another marketplace are against the PayPal TOS.

If you are careful about what you promote, then these problems would happen far less often.

In the resolution centre it said I had to remove all payment buttons from two websites - the warrior forum and a JV giveaway site.
It did not say I couldn't 'sell' certain products, so it isn't clear what the real reason was, as the messages I received conflicted with each other.

I am careful what products I promote but as there is no approval process
for products sold on paypal nobody can be certain what they will have an
issue with.

I will be looking at more clickbank products in future since there is no
risk to my paypal account from those.

My account has now been restored.

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ChrisShaw

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

So your subject line is a red herring.

The did not Limit you because of WSO Pro or JV Zoo.

They limited you because of a "specific product" that you were selling!!

Some affiliate offers that show up in the WSO or another marketplace are against the PayPal TOS.

If you are careful about what you promote, then these problems would happen far less often.

I don't think the subject line is a red herring at all, it merely points to the likely possibilities that caused this to happen. Red herring implies some deliberate attempt to mislead and from reading the whole thread, it seems pretty clear that there is no definitive answer as to why PayPal took the action they did other than they didn't like something they either saw or something they perceived to be a risk to them whether it was in fact a real risk or not.

For sure it wasn't the Warrior Forum or JVZoo per sea as a reason but it may not have been the 'specific product' either; it could have been the way payments were structured on a particular site or quite simply as Keith pointed out, because the sellers' details are not always presented to the buyer when on an external site like a giveaway event.

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WebPen

11 years ago

Well... PayPal is kind of finicky right now.

I've seen marketers get their account suspended because they were selling/promoting WSOs.

Then when the marketer contacted them, PayPal restored the account and said there's nothing wrong with WSOs and the Warrior Forum.

Keep digging and figure out what the deal is. Or just try getting a different person on the phone.

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Michael Worthington

11 years ago

I had the same thing happen about 5 years
ago when I was selling a product called
"Black Mask Marketing".

There was nothing wrong with the product
but the title suggested less that ethical
tactics so they flagged it and suspended
my account until I took all references to
Paypal off the site which included the "buy"
button.

Since I didn't have any other means of taking
money at the time, I just deleted the site, let
them know, and was back up and running in a
day or so.

I've heard of people arguing their case with
Paypal and actually winning but that's more
the exception than the rule.

If we want to continue using Paypal, we
pretty much have to just bite the bullet
and do what they say.

Michael

Thanks

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Networking_now

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Keith_Purkiss

The websites listed are a JV Giveaway site and the Warrior Forum.
The Warrior Forum is listed because I have sold WSO via WSO Pro and JV Zoo.

The Giveaway Site is because when I promote events as a contriubtor and get sell paypal commission payments and it doesnt have your seller'sdetails etc on the site. This also applies to special offers although you could include your details on the page for those.

Suggestion for JV Giveaway Organisers.
Most events work on a split pay system with some payments going to the organiser and some to contributors. The problem is when the payment goes to the contributor the 'sellers' details ie the contributor's are not included. This breaks paypal rules - most organisers also break the rules by not having their own details on the sites.
My suggestion to all organisers is to set the script so that they get all payments, and then pay contributors at the end of events. Contributors paypal accounts are all at risk otherwise.
I'm not going to post the JV Giveaway listed on my account because this applies to most events, and this is a general warning about JV Giveaways not an attack on one site.

Do you feel it is your JV Giveaway website which caused it to suspend your account?? or more the Wso/ jv zoo product?

Can you update us, what they say in 1-2 days, when you call them expeting this to be resloved within 24 to 48 hours.

hope it gets sorted, tell us the details.

Thanks
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bigslamgyrl

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Networking_now

Do you feel it is your JV Giveaway website which caused it to suspend your account?? or more the Wso/ jv zoo product?

Can you update us, what they say in 1-2 days, when you call them expeting this to be resloved within 24 to 48 hours.

hope it gets sorted, tell us the details.

Yes, please update us because I know I have done a few WSO's but one my storefront goes live I am expecting my paypal transactions and balance to shoot way up.

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Keith_Purkiss

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bigslamgyrl

Yes, please update us because I know I have done a few WSO's but one my storefront goes live I am expecting my paypal transactions and balance to shoot way up.

You could contact paypal and let them know and ask for any other advice they can give you. I found them quite helpful.

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firzmotion

11 years ago

Paypal is the used in most of online transaction. They are the "boss". Not accept paypal payment means "losing customer".
All you can do is minimize the risk, some tips based on my experience:
1. Only use 1 computer and IP to login
2. After received payment wait within 24 hours and deliver the item (especially if you are selling service)
3. Avoid "general password" only use "unique password" for your paypal account.

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Networking_now 11 years ago

Originally Posted by firzmotion

3. Avoid "general password" only use "unique password" for your paypal account.

If paypal have to check your account, can they check what your password is?

or they cant check what your password charectors are ?
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Michael Worthington

11 years ago

Originally Posted by firzmotion

Paypal is the used in most of online transaction. They are the "boss". Not accept paypal payment means "losing customer".
All you can do is minimize the risk, some tips based on my experience:
1. Only use 1 computer and IP to login
2. After received payment wait within 24 hours and deliver the item (especially if you are selling service)
3. Avoid "general password" only use "unique password" for your paypal account.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but find a few flaws
in this reasoning.

1. Only use 1 computer and IP to login

What about cases where there is a dynamic IP
address? What about people like myself who check
their Paypal balance from their phone? If that
was an issue, I would have been suspended a
long time ago.

2. After received payment wait within 24 hours and deliver the item (especially if you are selling service)

Do this only if you never expect, or want repeat business
from a customer and you don't care how many refund
requests you get.

3. Avoid "general password" only use "unique password" for your paypal account.

I just can't see what my password has to do with
anything other than somebody guessing what it
is and stealing my money. It certainly doesn't have
anything to do with preventing a suspension from
Paypal that I can see.

Michael

Thanks
1 reply

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firzmotion

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Networking_now

If paypal have to check your account, can they check what your password is?

or they cant check what your password charectors are ?

No that's not allowed & impossible. The password is encrypted as far as i know. See my explanation below for more details.

Originally Posted by Michael Worthington

I'm sorry, but I can't help but find a few flaws
in this reasoning.

1. Only use 1 computer and IP to login

What about cases where there is a dynamic IP
address? What about people like myself who check
their Paypal balance from their phone? If that
was an issue, I would have been suspended a
long time ago.

2. After received payment wait within 24 hours and deliver the item (especially if you are selling service)

Do this only if you never expect, or want repeat business
from a customer and you don't care how many refund
requests you get.

3. Avoid "general password" only use "unique password" for your paypal account.

I just can't see what my password has to do with
anything other than somebody guessing what it
is and stealing my money. It certainly doesn't have
anything to do with preventing a suspension from
Paypal that I can see.

Michael

1. Yes i'm not pretty clear here. Paypal check your login info. so if you usually login from static ip and switch to dynamic ip that will be a problem. They will detect a change of usual activity. If you are login with dynamic ip there will be no problem until you login from another country. And about "phone" that is m.paypal believe itor not that was the only place that paypal cannot cover. Most of fradulent transaction done by phone application. Did you know you can install blackberry simulation on your PC? you can also install paypal for mobile.

2. Well i must say that the risk you must take. You can add express delivery, instant payment to your paypal account or etc. But don't forget the risk. Now let me ask you, do you know zeerk.com? on the first day when the site still new they are offering instant paymentto paypal account. And the result? yes, bunnch of fraudulent order using stolen cc. The payer use paypal verified with cvv, withdraw the funds then disappear. After that they add 2 days payment clerance.

3. hehe this is not a quessing game. Do you ever heard of "i'm selling fresh database, email and password"? if i'm not worng it is 10 usd for 1500-2000 list.
Then quess what? they use what they called "scanner" and voilaa.. all live paypal account will created in the log.

Well that's all i can say guys. I already got my account banned twice. You can take my advice or let it be.
Play safe and reduce the risk.

Regards,

Thanks

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PPC-Coach

11 years ago

So you got in trouble for promoting products they don't like.

This isn't news. They looked at what you were selling and did not like it.

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Randy Smith

11 years ago

Isn't News???

OK - Maybe to all the guys who talk to each other and come up with lames excuses as to why they closed their wso's instead of just telling newer marketers that paypal don't like the warrior forum wso thread it's not news....
But this is the first time I've seen someone affected by possibly having split pay from a giveaway event! - so wouldn't those folks who use giveaways and run them want to know..... or should Keith have just kept quite while a heap more warriors lose their paypal accounts???

When possibly only one in ten warriors who lose a paypal account ever mention it publicly, I personally think it is news for a regular non multi-thousand dollar a day warrior to share this info and what he has done about it....

So thanks for sharing Keith.

Having used JVZoo and NOT having any issues (even contacting paypal personally to check everything was above board and within their terms).... and watching w+ change their system to one with a similar option to JVZoo, I suspect it is news that all wso creators should and would want to know about so people can stop the instant split pay and stick within paypals guidelines... then we can all continue to benefit!

After having spoken to several warriors who may not have gone public and hearing from some who have - I personally wont be promoting anything on splitpay.

Just my tuppence worth.... No news just an opinion
Randy

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Don Schenk

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Randy Smith

I suspect it is news that all wso creators should and would want to know about so people can stop the instant split pay and stick within paypals guidelines

Now I'm confused and have two questions.

Is split pay against PayPal's TOS?

Why are only certan WSO sellers, and not everyone who uses split pay at JVzoo or W+ being targeted by PayPal?

There must be some other factor such as the nature of the product or the wording on the sales page.

:-Don

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Randy Smith

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Don Schenk

Now I'm confused and have two questions.

Is split pay against PayPal's TOS?

Why are only certan WSO sellers, and not everyone who uses split pay at JVzoo or W+ being targeted by PayPal?

There must be some other factor such as the nature of the product or the wording on the sales page.

:-Don

Hi Don,
No one has ever had a definitive answer from paypal as far as I am aware.....

But they do say two things:
1 - If split pay is used then the buyer pays the affiliate, and the vendors terms of sale, support etc. is not visible to them anywhere after the transaction... so it does seem logical that they should have details of whom and where they bought the product and what the terms are ???
2- They have said (by telephone and not in writing) that they think EVERYTHING on the warrior wso thread is just people selling products showing how to make money by selling products showing how to make money teaching others to sell products showing how to make money..... so it sounds like a vicious circle when no one benefits from a product that actually does something. And obviously they don't listen to anyone trying to explain that it's a little more complex than that - or that not all products are the same just as in any areas of life!!

Hope that helps, and hey - just opinions and hearsay before someone says it's not news etc.

Randy
P.S. To clarify - my product on wso/jvzoo was a software product (linksupercharger), so buyers actually got something which they didn't have any issue with, and it used JVZoo's affiliate program where I send out commissions using paypals own adaptive payments - so the buyers still had links to my site, my support desk and paid me... etc.

Thanks

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billallridge

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Randy Smith

Isn't News???

OK - Maybe to all the guys who talk to each other and come up with lames excuses as to why they closed their wso's instead of just telling newer marketers that paypal don't like the warrior forum wso thread it's not news....
But this is the first time I've seen someone affected by possibly having split pay from a giveaway event! - so wouldn't those folks who use giveaways and run them want to know..... or should Keith have just kept quite while a heap more warriors lose their paypal accounts???

When possibly only one in ten warriors who lose a paypal account ever mention it publicly, I personally think it is news for a regular non multi-thousand dollar a day warrior to share this info and what he has done about it....

So thanks for sharing Keith.

Having used JVZoo and NOT having any issues (even contacting paypal personally to check everything was above board and within their terms).... and watching w+ change their system to one with a similar option to JVZoo, I suspect it is news that all wso creators should and would want to know about so people can stop the instant split pay and stick within paypals guidelines... then we can all continue to benefit!

After having spoken to several warriors who may not have gone public and hearing from some who have - I personally wont be promoting anything on splitpay.

Just my tuppence worth.... No news just an opinion
Randy

I agree Randy,

Any information regarding accounts being suspended or threatened because of the practices we as marketers are involved in, is important to take under consideration.

I think it is especially noteworthy that Keith has pointed out that there was no activity that should have really made his account attract undue attention.

Since it is not just the "Big Dogs" being hit with these blows to their accounts, we all need to take heed, keep our critical faculties alive, and report to our peers.

Thanks for the heads up Keith

Bill

Thanks

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daddykool

11 years ago

Hey Keith

Maybe they do not like Sheep

Seriously, though buddy, even if you do get it sorted with PP, get some other methods for income (some are UK based only) payments:

Google Wallet
A Bank Merchant Services (do your own refunds!)
BT Billpay
Sagepay
Y! Merchant
Amazon
eBay
Worldpay
eWay (one of our UK favs!)
Web-Merchant (Tell Phil we sent you!)
NoChex
Paypoint

ETC ETC

Plus the good old UK 100% safe Bank Transfer / Standing Order / Direct Debit facility!

The benefits of how long all or similar ways of getting paid online above, take to set up, FAR outway any time spent doing it!

We have over 25 different ways to get paid (and adding/testing) to it every month

Thanks

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mrultra

Banned 11 years ago

[DELETED]

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Keith_Purkiss

11 years ago

Originally Posted by mrultra

This statement implies that they have contacted you previously about these issues. Did that happen, or is this the first time they have contacted you about these issues?

No they have not contacted me before and the two mentioned websites are not mine. They have contacted other people about the Warrior Forum, and possibly the other site too - the Giveaway site.

As Randy and Big Mike said it does look like it's a product issue, but they didn't tell me which ones, and I've avoided all the hyped up make $1000s in minutes WSOs. I've never heard of an issue with Giveaway sites before.

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briankoz

11 years ago

PayPal provides a robust API to specifically split-payments between receivers, which are called Chained and Parallel Payments. If they had a problem with them in the first place, why make the API?

I've worked closely with PayPal's development team on several applications designed specifically for sellers/affiliates and PayPal has zero problems with it.

I've discussed this at length with my PayPal Account Manager, who has consistently stated that PayPal does NOT have a problem with split or rotated payments.

That's actually quite different than what our Paypal rep told us when some of the new API's first came out (I think around 2 years ago if memory serves). We were one of the first guys in there developing with it and worked not only closely with some reps there, but even had some calls with one of their head development teams (we actually caught a major bug or two before it all became available to the public).

And here's what my impression from our talks were:

1. Parallel payments were originally intended for multiple sellers selling to the same client from the same store. For instance, if I had a store that had some products from me, some from Mike, and some from Allen, someone could pick all three and checkout in one area and have three split payments go out to each one. Each guy would be responsible for their product.

2. Chained payments were where one guy got paid and he could then pay out almost instantly to others but he'd still be responsible for the product. At the time, there were obvious drawbacks to this for affiliate payments and risk factors that I don't think Paypal considered, so I'm sure it's come along a little bit further since then (I'd have to check with one of my coders to really know). But ultimately this was the more safe way to go for affiliate payments to follow within their guidelines at the time.

3. Rotating Paypal links was a big no no then. I'm surprised that they told you that they didn't have a problem with that because they were adamant about that with us, and I know other marketers had similar talks with them on it. You could not swap out Paypal links on the same sales page according to them, and it was a major problem they were running into. And this was without even mentioning the fact that if they have a problem with a sales page that isn't yours, they'd have a bigger problem with your Paypal being on it as well.

Of course, Paypal is a big company and you'll often hear different things from different people, and I'm sure they've changed some of their stances on things, but that's my impression after working with them for a fair amount of time back before much of the API's were even available to the public.

Brian

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Paypal Suspension - was it JV Giveaways, WSO Pro, or JV Zoo?

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