Article Marketing Do's and Dont's?

78 replies
Hi everyone,

I'm new here and I have a couple of questions about article submission.

I noticed that a competitor doing well in search engines had written about 50 articles (over a period of 12 months) and submitted the same one to lots of article directories. They were doing really well in the SERPs but in the last 4-8 weeks dropped (maybe due to panda/penguin?).

When i noticed 6 months or so ago that they were doing this i wrote about 10-15 articles and submitted to quite a few article directories but had no affect. I also have dropped in the last 4-8 weeks so I am thinking maybe down to these articles?

I'm now trying to delete this duplicate articles to see if it helps but I've had no affect from that either.

I've now started writing unique articles and submitted them to just one article directory. so I've got about 5 unique articles on about 5 artice directories at the moment but have had no success from that either.

So my questions are:

Should I continue to delete the duplicate articles?
Should I continue to write unique articles and submit them to different article directories?
Does having the same content in the resources box make a difference and should this be alternated?
Should I just give up on article directories as I don't seem to be getting results?

Any help would be much appreciated.
#article #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author simplewriting
    Welcome to the forum,

    Backlinks from article directories are USELESS. The actual purpose of article directories is to provide content to ezine publishers who scour these directories looking for quality content that they can share with their readers.

    But in order to publish your article, They will have to share your "resource box" which will have a link back to your site. Not only will you get a "legitimate" backlink, But you will also get a good amount of laser-targeted traffic to your site.

    This is just a small part of this very awesome marketing strategy.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

    Should I continue to delete the duplicate articles?
    You can if it floats your boat. The articles aren't helping or hurting you though. What you're trying to do is article directory marketing (using article directories for backlinks). It was a pretty shaky strategy to begin with, and it is very much dead now. Article directories were never meant for that kind of thing anyways.

    Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

    Should I continue to write unique articles and submit them to different article directories?
    Write unique articles? Yes. The internet can always use more good, interesting content. We'll assume for arguments sake that this is what you are writing. Really, you'll only want to submit to EzineArticles to start, and you can add others later if you can find enough webmasters in your niche visiting a directory to make it worthwhile. All this advice has to do with article syndication, explained in these threads:

    Article Marketing & Syndication Explained?

    Is Article Marketing Dead?! Shocking Interview Gives the Final Answer.


    Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

    Does having the same content in the resources box make a difference and should this be alternated?
    You won't be penalized if you do, but I find that my best results come from tailoring a resource box to each specific article. Kind of make it part of the narrative, you know?

    Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

    Should I just give up on article directories as I don't seem to be getting results?
    You don't have to give up on directories completely, but definitely give up with what you are doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author hobsdv
    I would continue to submit articles, but quality unique articles per article site. Never use the same article on multiple article sites. Also and this is just me, i only use the top 5-10 article sites.

    There are a lot of article directories that will accept anything from duplicate content to clearly spun articles, and these kind of directories are useless/.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      Should I continue to delete the duplicate articles?
      Only if it makes you feel better, otherwise it's a waste of energy. Besides, if the articles are good enough, someone may pick them up and give you something useful from them.

      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      Should I continue to write unique articles and submit them to different article directories?
      Your choice. As you have seen, the presence or absence of the same article in multiple places hasn't affected your rankings anyway.

      Why not put your time into creating content worthy of sharing, and making it available where people actually look for content? When I'm in publisher mode, looking for content, that pretty much means EzineArticles.

      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      Does having the same content in the resources box make a difference and should this be alternated?
      Making the resource box read like part of the article, as Joe suggested, will often get you better response than a canned resource box.

      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      Should I just give up on article directories as I don't seem to be getting results?
      If the result you are expecting is SEO benefits from backlinking from the directories, yes, you should give up. More beneficial would be to change what you expect from directories.

      Originally Posted by hobsdv View Post

      I would continue to submit articles, but quality unique articles per article site. Never use the same article on multiple article sites. Also and this is just me, i only use the top 5-10 article sites.
      Why would anyone want to waste time and energy creating unique, never published "quality articles" and then give them away to an article directory? If it's "duplicate content" you're worried about, better to put those unique articles on something you own, because the moment a publisher picks up your article and republishes it, you have your duplicate content.

      Originally Posted by hobsdv View Post

      There are a lot of article directories that will accept anything from duplicate content to clearly spun articles, and these kind of directories are useless/.
      This I completely agree with...
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  • Profile picture of the author Teedubyah
    I have a question for everyone. Lets say I plan to crank out 4 articles a week in addition to my blog articles. Would it be a better strategy to to submit all 4 articles to one article directory such as Ezine Articles, OR should I spread them out and submit one article to the 4 most popular directories? So, in a month I would either have 16 articles with Ezine OR 4 articles on 4 of the top directories? Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author keithgillaspy
      Originally Posted by Teedubyah View Post

      I have a question for everyone. Lets say I plan to crank out 4 articles a week in addition to my blog articles. Would it be a better strategy to to submit all 4 articles to one article directory such as Ezine Articles, OR should I spread them out and submit one article to the 4 most popular directories? So, in a month I would either have 16 articles with Ezine OR 4 articles on 4 of the top directories? Thanks.
      My approach would be to write 4 quality articles (500+) words and first place them on my blog. I would then wait a few days and check that the article has been indexed and then submit the same article to EzineArticles (EZA).

      The reason is because I want the article to rank for my site. Articles first published on EZA used to rank fairly well in Google a few years ago, but this is no longer the case so by following the above strategy I get a content boost for my site, a backlink from EZA and the possibility that someone publishes the article on their blog.

      As for picking between EZA and the other top article directories, I think there is little difference. EZA is still king, but spreading your articles around cannot hurt. To be honest, I would take the article that was first published on my site and then submit the same exact article to EZA, Article Base, and GoArticles. I do this all the time and there is no problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by keithgillaspy View Post

        As for picking between EZA and the other top article directories, I think there is little difference. EZA is still king, but spreading your articles around cannot hurt. To be honest, I would take the article that was first published on my site and then submit the same exact article to EZA, Article Base, and GoArticles. I do this all the time and there is no problem.
        If you have the time to do so, go ahead. Can't hurt.

        I would add something so you could identify which directory a republished article came from - a strange spelling or punctuation, maybe a code stuck in somewhere.

        If you find that the majority of your legitimate publishers are getting your articles from one directory, focus your efforts there. When I say 'legitimate publishers', I'm not counting scraper sites and obvious autoblogs.
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  • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
    Can we make the distinction between duplicated and syndicated content, please.

    Duplicate content is content appearing multiple times on the same domain.

    Syndicated content is content appearing multiple times on various domains, credited to the original author.

    Now, continue
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by BudaBrit View Post

      Can we make the distinction between duplicated and syndicated content, please.

      Duplicate content is content appearing multiple times on the same domain.

      Syndicated content is content appearing multiple times on various domains, credited to the original author.

      Now, continue
      999,999 times one of has had to explain it. You just missed the grand prize!
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      • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        999,999 times one of has had to explain it. You just missed the grand prize!
        Damn. How can I make sure I become the proud recipient of this magnificent grand prize next time around, oh utterly brilliant one? And what exactly is it?

        Perhaps some nice "how to find customers" tips would be a good idea
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by BudaBrit View Post

          Damn. How can I make sure I become the proud recipient of this magnificent grand prize next time around, oh utterly brilliant one? And what exactly is it?
          It was a pizza coupon, and I already used it. So to be honest, no one else ever really had a shot.

          Originally Posted by BudaBrit View Post

          Perhaps some nice "how to find customers" tips would be a good idea
          They're in the shadows, to the left...

          But really, finding customers/clents to write for is easy. Convincing them to buy from you is the game. To tie this into article marketing, think of it like trying to get a syndication partner, but asking for money instead of a backlink. It takes a bit of marketing finesse; but it is doable. 6 of 8 of my current steady clients are not on the forum at all, so to me at least looking off site and off line is the best.
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          • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            It was a pizza coupon, and I already used it. So to be honest, no one else ever really had a shot.



            They're in the shadows, to the left...

            But really, finding customers/clents to write for is easy. Convincing them to buy from you is the game. To tie this into article marketing, think of it like trying to get a syndication partner, but asking for money instead of a backlink. It takes a bit of marketing finesse; but it is doable. 6 of 8 of my current steady clients are not on the forum at all, so to me at least looking off site and off line is the best.
            Hmmm.

            I'm jumping the gun a little, I'm just a little worried about my potential client base. Convincing them to buy shouldn't be too hard although a couple of my recent clients have been a bit meh, they've both come up with different proposals for me

            I just worry about finding clients, as here in Hungary, the businessses are the stingiest in the world (probably) and wouldn't pay, while as I'm here, marketing to my local area in the UK is a bit more difficult.
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  • Profile picture of the author sara121
    hey everyone i am always confused with this. Thanks for sharing this.
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    • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
      Originally Posted by sara121 View Post

      hey everyone i am always confused with this. Thanks for sharing this.
      There is a whole world of difference between Article "Directory" Marketing (attempting to use the article directories for SEO backlinks), and true "Article Marketing".

      The article directories were never created for marketers to create backlinks; their purpose was as a repository for articles offered for syndication.

      Any backlinks they have achieved have always been low level, non-relevant, whereas if your articles get picked up and published (syndicated) by webmasters looking for content, you will immediately place your writing in front of hundreds, often thousands, of extremely niche-relevant eyes.

      Many true article marketers here on the Warrior Forum use articles as they should: first publishing them on their own websites, second sending them directly to their lists of syndication partners, and finally publishing them on Ezine Articles and maybe one or two additional directories. Nothing more.

      Rewriting or spinning is totally unnecessary. "Duplicate content" refers to content published more than once on the same website, nothing more.

      If you really want to learn how to use the articles you write correctly, jsut follow the posts of experts such as: Alexa Smith, Bill Platt, Celent, Joe Robinson, John Coutts, John McCabe, Mike Tucker, MYOB, Nicola Lane, Paul Myers, Richard Van, and TiffLee..
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      • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
        Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

        There is a whole world of difference between Article "Directory" Marketing (attempting to use the article directories for SEO backlinks), and true "Article Marketing".

        The article directories were never created for marketers to create backlinks; their purpose was as a repository for articles offered for syndication.
        That is AnnieP

        SPINNING -> Garbage In, Garbage Out. I hate to annoy you but it's the truth, you don't achieve that short gun dream of hundreds of articles everywhere instead you are *******izing the system and making the game difficult for the average Joe and making it a smooth ride for the SMART.

        I always tell my clients not to CHOOSE spinning for article directory submission.
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      • Profile picture of the author danr62
        Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

        If you really want to learn how to use the articles you write correctly, jsut follow the posts of experts such as: Alexa Smith, Bill Platt, Celent, Joe Robinson, John Coutts, John McCabe, Mike Tucker, MYOB, Nicola Lane, Paul Myers, Joe Robinson, Richard Van, and TiffLee..
        Joe gets listed on there twice! He must be double the expert.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by danr62 View Post

          Joe gets listed on there twice! He must be double the expert.
          Or there are two of me . Twice the fun!
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          • Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            Or there are two of me . Twice the fun!

            That new avatar scares and depresses me.




            ( I had a nicely worded and eloquent PM to send you, but evidently I need 50 posts to PM)
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

              That new avatar scares and depresses me.
              You should have seen one of the ones he had a couple of weeks ago ... :p
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              • Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                You should have seen one of the ones he had a couple of weeks ago ... :p
                I had yours printed on pillow cases.
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                • Profile picture of the author danr62
                  Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

                  I had yours printed on pillow cases.
                  Creepy!

                  No wonder you need so much caffeine, I wouldn't be able to sleep with Alexa Smith staring at me all night.

                  I'd have dreams of a recording saying "Article directories don't require previously unpublished articles" playing on repeat all night long.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
                    Originally Posted by danr62 View Post

                    Creepy!

                    No wonder you need so much caffeine, I wouldn't be able to sleep with Alexa Smith staring at me all night.

                    I'd have dreams of a recording saying "Article directories don't require previously unpublished articles" playing on repeat all night long.
                    For some reason I get the feeling of:

                    "Dave, that is NOT duplicate content". In a female version of that creepy Hal voice from 2001.
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

              That new avatar scares and depresses me.
              It's not my fault, I swear!

              Terra
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

                That new avatar scares and depresses me.




                ( I had a nicely worded and eloquent PM to send you, but evidently I need 50 posts to PM)
                Oddly enough, some Warriors contact Pages provide an email just for thus kind of situation...

                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                You should have seen one of the ones he had a couple of weeks ago ... :p
                Someone tell Alexa we are no longer speaking. Thanks!

                Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                It's not my fault, I swear!

                Terra
                No one will ever know the truth (upstairs anyways).
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                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                  Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                  No one will ever know the truth (upstairs anyways).
                  Shhh!

                  Terra
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                • Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                  Oddly enough, some Warriors contact Pages provide an email just for thus kind of situation...



                  <snip>.
                  Meh- the option didn't come up on when I clicked your screen name, and with over 9000 tabs open on my browser, I can't email or open PDF's or watch Youtube.
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  • Profile picture of the author prithvitheprime
    Write an unique content, it is always good to post an article with interesting content. write unique articles and submit them to different article directories will get you a good back links as well ezine articles is good to start with.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by prithvitheprime View Post

      .write unique articles and submit them to different article directories will get you a good back links
      This is completely wrong.

      An article directory backlink is an article directory baclink. It's a non-context-relevant, PR-0 backlink. It makes no difference at all, on this planet anyway, whether the content to which it's attached happens to be "unique".

      100,000 of those backlinks and $3.50 will buy you a cappuccino at Starbuck's.

      There's no point in submitting to an article directory an article which you haven't first published and had indexed on your own site. This is fundamental to any sort of "article marketing".

      Reading Annie's and Joe's and BudaBrit's posts above is better than either (a) guessing, or (b) repeating what you've always incorrectly assumed.
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      • Profile picture of the author inglebey
        Thanks for the replies guys, they're really helpful and I'm starting to understand 'Article Marketing' now.

        Submitting an article to your website (getting it indexed) then submitting it to an article directory, where/what are the SEO benefits? Only if someone picks it up and uses it? If article directory backlinks are so useless how are they going to benefit you by submitting the article to your website first?

        Say you have a niche market and there is no relevant websites to guest post on, how are you meant to benefit your website?
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

          Submitting an article to your website (getting it indexed) then submitting it to an article directory, where/what are the SEO benefits?
          SEO benefits are not the goal of posting an article to a directory. The point is to get it syndicated on a relevant niche site, and you piggyback their traffic onto your site and into your funnel. Now, will you see SEO benefits because of relevant niche site backlinks? Yep. That's a happy side effect though, and not the focus of the method.

          Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

          Only if someone picks it up and uses it?
          Yep, that's the way article directories are supposed to work. You can skip the waiting though by participating in active syndication, going straight to those relevant websites and talking to them about posting your stuff. Relationship building: scary to people searching for the quick fix, but completely necessary.

          Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

          If article directory backlinks are so useless how are they going to benefit you by submitting the article to your website first?
          I don't really get what you're asking here, but to try and explain the submission order simply you post to your site first so that you get initial indexation rights. It proves that it's your content (in Google's eyes at least) by showing where the piece originated from.

          Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

          Say you have a niche market and there is no relevant websites to guest post on, how are you meant to benefit your website?
          If you can't find relevant sites in your niche, you aren't looking hard enough. Plain. And. Simple. There are websites for freaking everything on the internet.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

          Say you have a niche market and there is no relevant websites to guest post on, how are you meant to benefit your website?
          Then it's time for the 'Pebble in the Pond' strategy...

          You know how dropping a pebble into a body of water results in a series of ever expanding rings?

          Your niche is the center of those rings. Look for related niches where your content may constructively overlap. For example, I might write about training hunting dogs. I could slant some of those articles to basic obedience before teaching actual hunting-related commands. A site or sites focused on teaching basic obedience, housebreaking, first time dog ownership might find such an article a good fit for their audience, too.

          Many times, getting published in these outer rings is easier than getting published inside a tight niche where many of the other content sites are direct competitors.
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        • Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

          Thanks for the replies guys, they're really helpful and I'm starting to understand 'Article Marketing' now.

          Submitting an article to your website (getting it indexed) then submitting it to an article directory, where/what are the SEO benefits? Only if someone picks it up and uses it? If article directory backlinks are so useless how are they going to benefit you by submitting the article to your website first?

          Say you have a niche market and there is no relevant websites to guest post on, how are you meant to benefit your website?
          Try this.

          There a free add on for the Firefox browser called "Search Status". After you install it, go to a competitors site- or the site of someone that you admire and right click the SS icon and scan the domain for it's back links.

          See how many backlinks came from article directories.
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          • Profile picture of the author inglebey
            Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

            Try this.

            There a free add on for the Firefox browser called "Search Status". After you install it, go to a competitors site- or the site of someone that you admire and right click the SS icon and scan the domain for it's back links.

            See how many backlinks came from article directories.
            I use Open Site Explorer.

            Is this meant to be a trick as there is actually a lot coming from article directories from my competitors which is why it slighting confused me. If you read my first thread I noticed the person in no.1 spot for my sector nationally had submitted 50+ articles to lots of article directories. This is what made me want to look it up and find out more information on the subject. Maybe a lot of people syndicated the article hence him doing well, although I don't think the articles were published on his website?
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            • Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

              I use Open Site Explorer.

              Is this meant to be a trick as there is actually a lot coming from article directories from my competitors which is why it slighting confused me. If you read my first thread I noticed the person in no.1 spot for my sector nationally had submitted 50+ articles to lots of article directories. This is what made me want to look it up and find out more information on the subject. Maybe a lot of people syndicated the article hence him doing well, although I don't think the articles were published on his website?

              No tricks. If you're using OSE and checking your competition for backlinks, you seem to be ahead of a lot of folks.

              Is the competitor getting 50 links from just one site, or is it spread out amongst 10 sites?

              Can you post a screenshot? I'm curious to see it.
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              • Profile picture of the author inglebey
                Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

                No tricks. If you're using OSE and checking your competition for backlinks, you seem to be ahead of a lot of folks.

                Is the competitor getting 50 links from just one site, or is it spread out amongst 10 sites?

                Can you post a screenshot? I'm curious to see it.
                They have submitted the same 50 articles to 10 article directory sites.

                I can't really show a screenshot as I found out they done this by visiting their article site profiles and noticed they were the same articles on each site.

                The site is www (dot) fire-riskassessment (dot) com (sorry i can't post links) if you want to do some research. They were number 1 for 'fire risk assessment' for the last year at least but recently dropped to 8th (maybe due to panda/penguin).

                If you visit it now it says the site contains malware so maybe he's been hacked so beware.
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  • Profile picture of the author crissie
    When it was the "in" thing to do, I followed the crowd and wrote i'd say 100 original articles over months, submitted them to a few (not all) article sites, etc. I watched as a number of sites picked them up and reposted them. All it gave me was a short-lived ego boost and an ever shorter-lived PR hike. Too much of my time was spent on writing for the little I got back.
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    Thanks Guys!

    I know I'm coming across slightly ignorant but it seems to get the best responses
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      Thanks Guys!

      I know I'm coming across slightly ignorant but it seems to get the best responses
      We've discussed the topic tons of times, it's like a rehearsed dance at this point. Of course, the search function will bring up the answers to a ton of these questions too .
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      • Profile picture of the author inglebey
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        Of course, the search function will bring up the answers to a ton of these questions too .
        But then I don't get to interact with you
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    Could you guest post the same article to many websites? Isn't this the same affect as if people were to pull your article from an article directory?
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      Could you guest post the same article to many websites? Isn't this the same affect as if people were to pull your article from an article directory?
      That's the active syndication bit that I explained to you earlier. People attached a different name to it and chalked it up as something new; but they are the same thing in essence.
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      • Profile picture of the author inglebey
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        That's the active syndication bit that I explained to you earlier. People attached a different name to it and chalked it up as something new; but they are the same thing in essence.
        Yea what I thought, great stuff.

        I know you go over this topic with new people all the time but you do benefit people and I've learnt a lot today so thank you all and keep it up!
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  • Profile picture of the author pamon
    I've tried to submit my original content to article directories like ezine and gave up on it. I'd rather spend my time building a client base, writing unique and high level articles, and then build on my own personal sites. If google decides that ezine and other article directories are junk and decides to blacklist them, then most links generated via those sources are dead.

    Build quality content, write content that matters, and repeat. I'd love to price content at .01/word and survive but quality content costs money and that content delivers traffic and profits in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    Hi,

    Another quick one.

    When it comes to guest posting on relevant websites should you post the article on your own website first or not worry about that as you're getting a nice juicy backlink?

    Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      Hi,

      Another quick one.

      When it comes to guest posting on relevant websites should you post the article on your own website first or not worry about that as you're getting a nice juicy backlink?

      Thanks.
      Your content always goes on your website first.

      Here, read this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author leachyau
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    OK OK, will you still benefit from guest posting articles on peoples website without posting it on your own first. People/clients don't always want news/blog sections on there website.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Great Gordino
      I *have* guest posted with original content, but didn't enjoy the feeling of losing that content.

      While it can be worth it if the other site in question gets bucket loads of tightly targeted traffic, which can give a boost to your own exposure, as a long term model you should go on your own site first.

      If you are creating quality content, you want to keep control, be able to use it over and over in ways that you may not have even thought of yet, whereas giving up that content for use on someone else's site really does need a massive payback to make the sacrifice worthwhile,
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      OK OK, will you still benefit from guest posting articles on peoples website without posting it on your own first. People/clients don't always want news/blog sections on there website.
      Sure, any syndicator will tell you there are benefits to exclusive guest posts. I tend to avoid them though, going back to the whole leverage thing. For a helpful publisher or high value site though, I'll relent. Not too often though
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      will you still benefit from guest posting articles on peoples website without posting it on your own first.
      You might, but it's not something I've ever been willing to do, myself, in over three years of intermittent guest posting.

      I won't say "never" (though some article marketers do, including some who are earning far more than I am), but I'd need it to be a real authority site with overwhelming, highly targeted traffic which I couldn't reach in any other way.
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      • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        You might, but it's not something I've ever been willing to do, myself, in over three years of intermittent guest posting.

        I won't say "never" (though some article marketers do, including some who are earning far more than I am), but I'd need it to be a real authority site with overwhelming, highly targeted traffic which I couldn't reach in any other way.
        I will jump in quickly just to provide the other side of the fence: I do guest post quite often in one of my niches.

        ... the sole reason being that the website I do the writing for is highly-targeted and pulls in some massive numbers in terms of visitors. It ends up being much easier writing unique, one-off content for that one site than it would be for me to attempt to build the traffic myself through syndication efforts.

        Aside from this one niche, though, I'm exclusively syndication.
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    I'm thinking from a backlink point of view.

    Do you get less seo benefits/link juice when you don't post the article on your site first?
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      I'm thinking from a backlink point of view.

      Do you get less seo benefits/link juice when you don't post the article on your site first?
      That I don't have an answer for. Never crossed my mind actually, like I said SEO is a happy side effect to me though. That might be best asked in the SEO subforum.
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      • Profile picture of the author inglebey
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        That I don't have an answer for. Never crossed my mind actually, like I said SEO is a happy side effect to me though. That might be best asked in the SEO subforum.
        Will do! Cheers Joe!
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    I get your point Alexa. I'm just saying if I guest post on a website and whether I posted it on my own website first or not it is still a backlink from their website, this as got to be beneficial from an SEO perspective.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      this as got to be beneficial from an SEO perspective.
      Beneficial when compared with doing nothing at all, I suppose, yes.

      But clearly detrimental, overall, when compared with other reasonably foreseeable alternative uses of that time, energy, effort and content. (And that's the point, and is a big part of the reason why you won't find article marketers as successful as Paul Uhl agreeing with your perspective on that).

      It's all a bit of an "academic" point, really, given how little article marketing has to do with SEO. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    If you're guest posting you're going to have to do the syndication yourself by posting the same article on lots of niche websites. people aren't going to be nicking articles off websites and if they are I very much doubt they drag your author bio/link with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author inglebey
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      If you're guest posting you're going to have to do the syndication yourself by posting the same article on lots of niche websites.
      posting an article on your website and then on article directories where people can pick up and use it is article syndication.

      posting an article on your website then posting it on other peoples websites is effectively link building? Do you submit the content without an author bio and link?
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

        posting an article on your website and then on article directories where people can pick up and use it is article syndication.

        posting an article on your website then posting it on other peoples websites is effectively link building? Do you submit the content without an author bio and link?
        Yes, you are in essence link building. What the person I'm not talking to is saying though is that link building is not the reason that you syndicate articles. Rankings that you gain and lucky Google traffic that you get is merely an extra benefit. The traffic you are targeting are the readers that see that syndicated article and come straight to your site.

        It's targeted, it's free, and if you know what you are doing it is highly convertible.
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        • Profile picture of the author inglebey
          Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

          Yes, you are in essence link building. What the person I'm not talking to is saying though is that link building is not the reason that you syndicate articles. Rankings that you gain and lucky Google traffic that you get is merely an extra benefit. The traffic you are targeting are the readers that see that syndicated article and come straight to your site.

          It's targeted, it's free, and if you know what you are doing it is highly convertible.
          OK good I do understand your point but guest posting on niche websites is a very effective SEO tool, it's a relevant site with good relevant content and your link(s) is bang in the middle of it.

          It is ignorant to say the gain in rankings is an extra benefit as you partially know this is going to happen from such an effective method and from previous results. If you're moving up the rankings in Google it is a huge increase in traffic easily competing with the quantity of syndication traffic. You will also be moving up the rankings for keywords that are relevant so you will get people visiting your website that are actually interested in and looking for what you have to offer rather than someone just browsing from a click through.

          I understand the benefits of article marketing/syndication and that its focus is on driving traffic through quality content. But by having your website link spread across the web it is SEO for your website, hence the "bonus" of a search engine ranking increase.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
            Banned
            Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

            OK good I do understand your point but guest posting on niche websites is a very effective SEO tool, it's a relevant site with good relevant content and your link(s) is bang in the middle of it.
            No one is saying it doesn't help with SEO. It's just not the point.

            Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

            It is ignorant to say the gain in rankings is an extra benefit as you partially know this is going to happen from such an effective method and from previous results.
            Weak accusation, and you are basing on your assumptions, where myself and everyone else who has chimed in with the same opinion are basing what we say off of experience. 10% of my traffic comes from Google. 10%. If Google disappears tomorrow, I say "Huh, look at that." Then I go about the rest of my day in exactly the same way.

            Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

            If you're moving up the rankings in Google it is a huge increase in traffic easily competing with the quantity of syndication traffic.
            You hope that is what will happen. Hasn't proven true for any of us so far. Syndication traffic not only crushes Google in terms of sheer numbers, but also wipes the floor with them when it comes to the quality of that traffic.

            It's not even close.

            Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

            You will also be moving up the rankings for keywords that are relevant so you will get people visiting your website that are actually interested in and looking for what you have to offer rather than someone just browsing from a click through.
            Again, you hope. Syndication visitors are not "browsers from a click through", they are as targeted as traffic gets. They're already on a relevant website, not searching through millions of results to hopefully notice yours because hopefully you have enough backlinks to matter.

            Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

            I understand the benefits of article marketing/syndication and that its focus is on driving traffic through quality content. But by having your website link spread across the web it is SEO for your website, hence the "bonus" of a search engine ranking increase.
            Until Google makes something else in their algorithm more important, or Google no longer matters at all, then all that SEO work was for Jack Squat. Which is exactly why it's a good thing that SEO benefits are marginal. Imagine the nightmare of having your website's traffic coming from one source and one source only.

            Oh wait, you can. Just go into the Adsense/PPC/SEO discussion forum and seek out the endless threads whining about how Google throttled their "business". The week of April 24th was a ridiculously fun time to watch that place.

            Don't think we can explain it any better than that. You either get it or you don't at this point.
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            • Profile picture of the author inglebey
              Got a screenshot of that 10%?

              I'm just saying SEO is a part of article syndication and it's possible to get SEO results from it whether it is the purpose or not.

              Im not talking about SEO as a whole so your sole traffic coming from one (seo) source is an irrelevant comment. I'm talking about SEO effects from article syndication so you would be getting the best of both worlds.

              Guest posting is as good for SEO as it is for article syndication so I'm say this has to be the most effective way of promoting your website.
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

                Got a screenshot of that 10%?
                For you and on a public discussion forum? Don't count on it .
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

              10% of my traffic comes from Google. 10%. If Google disappears tomorrow, I say "Huh, look at that." Then I go about the rest of my day in exactly the same way.
              I was also able to say this at one point (and actually for quite a long time, though to be honest even that 10% of my traffic was more Google traffic than I'd ever had when I was outsourcing SEO and all sorts of other nonsense).

              However, I can't say that any more. Well, I could say it, I suppose, but it isn't still true.

              Over the last year-and-a-bit, all the Panda updates and the Penguin update, by removing a lot of dross from the SERP's, have actually given me some "surprise rankings", and slightly to my surprise, about 16%/17% of my traffic seems to come from Google at the moment. It's not good traffic, of course, but there it is.

              Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

              Syndication visitors are not "browsers from a click through", they are as targeted as traffic gets.
              This. Exactly.

              Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

              They're already on a relevant website,
              This. Exactly.

              Not to mention all the rest of his post. Paul sometimes even expresses it all more strongly than this, and I still agree with him.

              Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

              Don't think we can explain it any better than that. You either get it or you don't at this point.
              I agree wholeheartedly with all the above. If he were speaking to me, I'd even say more ...
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

                You turned it into a SEO vs syndication battle which wasn't even the point I was getting at.
                Your rhetoric suggested otherwise. If it was not your intent though, then my retorts were far too strong, and I know how to admit when I'm wrong for attacking someone.

                Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

                OK here is an example of syndication in a slightly different way where it wasn't effective and it working is dependent on what you're promoting.

                a makeup artist client of mine posted a video on youtube about make up tips, this had a link to her website (I'm guessing this is syndication just a video instead of an article).

                The video is relevant like an article and the people are watching the video so obviously interested.

                She got 7,500 visitors to her website in 1 day because of this video BUT didn't get one enquiry...

                This is because it was people all over the world and someone watching the video from brazil didn't fancy travelling to england for an eyebrow wax.

                Article syndicating in this case would have the same unsuccessful results.

                This proves a. YOU ARE RIGHT quality content/videos drive traffic to your website but b. whether it is successful or not depends on what you're offering.

                Please can we agree on something haha.
                Oh I agree wholeheartedly on that, and there are certain things where widespread article syndication won't be the most effective tool available. Say hypothetically the McDonalds franchise down the road wanted to start an affiliate program. Don't ask me how it would work, let's just roll with it lol. Syndicating content about double cheeseburgers doesn't do a whole lot of good on the web in general, because most of the people who see the content won't be in East Orlando.

                It comes down to targeting though. I can limit things down to restaurant sites in Orlando, the yellow pages, offline stuff, all that to still get the relevant people in the door.

                It doesn't seem we are disagreeing on much but semantics by the way. We both know syndication works. We both know that it will bring SEO benefits. If anything, we just aren't seeing eye to eye on the usefulness and importance of those SEO benefits.

                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                I agree wholeheartedly with all the above. If he were speaking to me, I'd even say more ...
                I feel like I'm being baited here...:p
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                • Profile picture of the author inglebey
                  Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                  It doesn't seem we are disagreeing on much but semantics by the way. We both know syndication works. We both know that it will bring SEO benefits. If anything, we just aren't seeing eye to eye on the usefulness and importance of those SEO benefits.
                  Sounds about right! I wouldn't really say the SEO benefits are important either I just mean they can POTENTIALLY increase successful business.
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  • Profile picture of the author watto123
    One thing article marketing does help with is building your reputation in your niche.
    I do submit to a couple of the top article directories, but only two or three times a week.

    The other thing to remember about articles is they can be repurposed into e-books, slideshows, videos, courses etc. So writing articles and submitting them is not a waste of time.

    As for publishing same content on my site first - I do, do that, but I change the wording (not through spinning), but manually, so people who do click on the link do not get to read the same content. The article on my site also tends to contain more information, more clickable links, more images than the one I submit to article directories.

    Since Penguin and Panda article directories have gone down a lot in search engine estimation as they realised a lot of junk got published there as a means to an ends. I reckon if you submit quality articles and give value to your readers it can't hurt.
    That was my two cents...!!
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by watto123 View Post

      One thing article marketing does help with is building your reputation in your niche.
      ^^^ Optimally, this is the main thing. As you become more established and recognized as an "expert" in your niche(s), you reach the point where product "recommendations" are given more weight by readers than any of the comparatively cheesy and wimpy "review" sites pushed up in the SERPS from the backwaters of backlinks.

      Traffic from relevant articles published in outlets read directly by your targeted readers results in very high conversion rates. And, it does not take many such traffic-driving articles at all to beat out the competition, no matter where your sites rank in the SERPS. In fact, where there is intense competition, generally there is commensurately more publications suitable for article submission.
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    It also depends on what you're driving traffic to.

    A service such as a plumber people aren't going to look for a plumber by reading articles they will type plumbers london in Google.

    Where as an informative blog is something that would really benefit from article syndication.
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    picture of an analytics pie chart ain't nothing private, maybe your statistics don't live up to the hype.

    You can even edit out the digits in paint.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

      picture of an analytics pie chart ain't nothing private, maybe your statistics don't live up to the hype.

      You can even edit out the digits in paint.
      You can also edit and fake them in paint/Photoshop, and we both know you aren't looking to be convinced here. Might be your first go around with this tired argument but I've watched it more than enough times already.

      Do and believe what you will, heck test and get the exact same results yourself. I won't even require an "I'm wrong" . My business and bank accounts (and those of everyone else syndicating) will be healthy either way.
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      • Profile picture of the author inglebey
        You turned it into a SEO vs syndication battle which wasn't even the point I was getting at.

        I'm glad article syndicating is working for you and I never said that it wasn't a good marketing tool and I will be giving it a go.

        I'm just saying if you're publishing articles around the web with backlinks to your website then your promoting/increasing your website in the search engines whether it's your intention or not. Which is SEO but unintentional SEO.

        I wanted to see the chart not statistics, colours label what is referral, organic and direct, it would be difficult to edit this in paint. Rubbing out everything apart from your account name, the time and the chart would be proof of you statement and at that same time showing no private information.

        I don't want to see it I was just playing but.... it is doable.
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    OK here is an example of syndication in a slightly different way where it wasn't effective and it working is dependent on what you're promoting.

    a makeup artist client of mine posted a video on youtube about make up tips, this had a link to her website (I'm guessing this is syndication just a video instead of an article).

    The video is relevant like an article and the people are watching the video so obviously interested.

    She got 7,500 visitors to her website in 1 day because of this video BUT didn't get one enquiry...

    This is because it was people all over the world and someone watching the video from brazil didn't fancy travelling to england for an eyebrow wax.

    Article syndicating in this case would have the same unsuccessful results.

    This proves a. YOU ARE RIGHT quality content/videos drive traffic to your website but b. whether it is successful or not depends on what you're offering.

    Please can we agree on something haha.
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  • Profile picture of the author inglebey
    Also does it not make it difficult to submit an article to another website after already posting it on your own, People want fresh unique to them content, I doubt they would approve an article you've already submitted somewhere else?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I have only one "don't" for article writing. Don't write crap. Make sure you know your subject well enough to write unique information. If you are just looking at a few other "articles" and then regurgitating the SOS even in your own words - you are writing crap. You should be familiar enough with your own niche, or the niches you write paid material about - and have enough writing skill - to put together something that isn't crap. If you can't - buy your material.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by inglebey View Post

    OK here is an example of syndication in a slightly different way where it wasn't effective and it working is dependent on what you're promoting.

    a makeup artist client of mine posted a video on youtube about make up tips, this had a link to her website (I'm guessing this is syndication just a video instead of an article).
    Just a minor clarification, as long as we're talking semantics...

    Posting a video on Youtube is just that - posting content on a content site. It becomes syndication when someone sees that video and embeds it on their site, in the same way an article becomes "syndicated content" when someone republishes it.

    Posting content on a content-sharing site, whether it's Youtube or EzineArticles, simply makes your content available for syndication.

    I'm sure you know that simply ranking well for a given keyword is no guarantee of either wealth or traffic. Over millions of searches, some statistics may say that a given position gets xx% of the available clicks. But for any given search, you aren't dealing with "law of large numbers" statistics. You are dealing with one human being trying to accomplish one thing.

    When they land on the serp with your link, it's just the beginning. You have to attract their attention, motivate the click, and keep them from being distracted by 20-30 other actions they could take.

    That's one reason for downplaying the SEO benefits of any scheme (scheme in its benign meaning) of link building. Scan through both the main forum and the SEO section, and you find people perplexed because they reached position x for [keyword] with y,yyy searches and they aren't getting any visitors - human ones, anyway.

    Another thing to consider, even if you buy the clicks vs. position stats, is that those stats are based on the number of available clicks, not the number of times a given term in searched for. I've read that a better than fair percentage of searches result in a refined search rather than a click-through.
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  • Profile picture of the author williamk
    Banned
    Article marketing is almost dead now. But it still helps in some links although they are of low quality.
    If you want you can try them out and see the end results.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by williamk View Post

      Article marketing is almost dead now. But it still helps in some links although they are of low quality.
      If you want you can try them out and see the end results.
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