Is it Just Me? - WSO Rant

73 replies
I buy WSO's all the time. Most are well worth the super low prices. That said, I'm really getting sick of reading long sales letters making several outrageous promises, only to find that the end product might have 1-2 new pieces of information. While these takeaways are generally worth the price of the WSO, it sucks to be lied to.

A while back I remember a WSO that promised (I'm paraphrasing) 1000's of red hot offline business owners ready to pay you $497, each month. Really, you're selling me a half million dollar a month business model?

I understand the concept of 'Buyer Beware' and the fact that the money involved is low, and the product almost always comes with a guarantee. All of that said, I don't think that should encourage people to lie or even grossly exaggerate.

My old concept was to keep a product if I got at least one good idea. From now on, I'm going to hold people to what they promise in their sales letter. This is the only way I can think of to do my little part to encourage truth in advertising. I may start adding honest reviews as to the products I return as well, however I imagine either or both of these activities will lead to some sellers blocking me.

What do you think? Am I being unreasonable?
#rant #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Michal
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    • Profile picture of the author Justinfm
      Originally Posted by Thomas Michal View Post

      When you go out to eat and the burger you get doesn't look like the one on the ad, do you eat it and ask for your money back too?

      It's a sales page it's meant to SELL.

      Now if there are blatant lies that's another story.
      The burger still gives me a good return on investment, if it's tasty and filling.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    You are not being unreasonable, except in your choices for WSO's to buy.

    If you keep buying WSO's that seem over-hyped in retrospect, you are saying a lot about how effective your BS-Filter is or is not.



    P.S. When I want to leave a bad review on a WSO, I never ask for a refund, as some people will say that since you didn't -- in the end -- pay for the item, you don't have justification to leave comments on the offer. I have seen that card played many times. So, when I decide to write a bad review of the product, I never ask for a refund. It is a small price to pay, to get the right to warn off others.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      P.S. When I want to leave a bad review on a WSO, I never ask for a refund, as some people will say that since you didn't -- in the end -- pay for the item, you don't have justification to leave comments on the offer. I have seen that card played many times. So, when I decide to write a bad review of the product, I never ask for a refund. It is a small price to pay, to get the right to warn off others.
      That's dumb, Bill. Not you, of course, but on someone saying you forfeit the right to leave a negative review if you refund. If you bought it, you are a customer. Period. It doesn't matter if you asked for a refund or not.

      The only exception in my mind would be those who ask for a refund before they've finished downloading or within five minutes of purchase. Those aren't customers; they're thieves. They never had any intention of being customers.

      If I think you just sold me a turd, I'm going to post negative feedback and I am going to ask for a refund. Some sellers may disagree with this but I believe the moderators here would agree with me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Myles Sinclair
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post


        "......If I think you just sold me a turd, I'm going to post negative feedback and I am going to ask for a refund....."
        Bill is selling turds? Now that's what I call niche marketing! Lol.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by Myles Sinclair View Post

          Bill is selling turds? Now that's what I call niche marketing! Lol.
          Actually he sells polished turds.

          It can be done, I saw it on myth busters. Apparently you need some kind of Rhino poo. There's a process to it and a lot of hand massaging but at the end you get a nice shiny s***.

          Below is the actual poo that was polished.



          Did I just go off topic?
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          • Profile picture of the author Myles Sinclair
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Actually he sells polished turds.

            It can be done, I saw it on myth busters. Apparently you need some kind of Rhino poo. There's a process to it and a lot of hand massaging but at the end you get a nice shiny s***.

            Below is the actual poo that was polished.



            Did I just go off topic?
            Thanks Richard.

            I've always been told you can't polish one of those things. It's always good to learn something new!

            I'm not sure what you would do with the end product? A nasty paperweight maybe, or something to go on the mantelpiece? If it's really shiny, it could make for a popular WSO!
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        • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
          Originally Posted by Myles Sinclair View Post

          Bill is selling turds? Now that's what I call niche marketing! Lol.
          Is there a product creation WSO for that?
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      • Profile picture of the author onSubie
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        That's dumb, Bill. Not you, of course, but on someone saying you forfeit the right to leave a negative review if you refund. If you bought it, you are a customer. Period. It doesn't matter if you asked for a refund or not.
        If I bought a blender on Amazon that was cheap and defective, I would return it and still leave a negative review.

        I don't think it is necessary to retain a product in order to retain your valid opinion.

        But I see Bill's point. In this crazy digital IM world where serial refunders are rampant and trashing competing products is a sales technique, I don't see it as that much of a stretch to say, "I buy products to review and do not ask for a refund if the review is bad".

        Every piece of credibility helps.

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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      P.S. When I want to leave a bad review on a WSO, I never ask for a refund, as some people will say that since you didn't -- in the end -- pay for the item, you don't have justification to leave comments on the offer. I have seen that card played many times. So, when I decide to write a bad review of the product, I never ask for a refund. It is a small price to pay, to get the right to warn off others.
      It's a silly price to pay. Who cares what stupid people say? If you enable stupid arguments, expect to get more of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      You are not being unreasonable, except in your choices for WSO's to buy.

      If you keep buying WSO's that seem over-hyped in retrospect, you are saying a lot about how effective your BS-Filter is or is not.



      P.S. When I want to leave a bad review on a WSO, I never ask for a refund, as some people will say that since you didn't -- in the end -- pay for the item, you don't have justification to leave comments on the offer. I have seen that card played many times. So, when I decide to write a bad review of the product, I never ask for a refund. It is a small price to pay, to get the right to warn off others.
      Yeah im kind of the same. Have a similar scenario going atm.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeLogan
    Hey Justin, I understand where you are coming from. But, can I make a suggestion?

    Rather then buying WSO's all the time, why not keep the focus on producing products to sell?

    Some things to think about:

    What made you buy the products you bought?
    Could you make a better product, that actually delivered, and helped people?
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post

    I may start adding honest reviews as to the products I return as well, however I imagine either or both of these activities will lead to some sellers blocking me.
    You should always try and leave your honest feedback whether good or bad. It's how other customers, like yourself, can more effectively evaluate the worth of a product.

    I'm not sure though why you would be bothered if a seller who sold you a crap product was to block you from future purchases? Why would you want to buy from them again? Maybe that's a bit of the problem.

    Besides, the type of people who are selling the rubbish products are those who wouldn't block you because they want and need the money if you decide to buy something else from them in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tenzo
    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post

    only to find that the end product might have 1-2 new pieces of information.
    While I don't disagree with the point that I think you are trying to make, the above quote bothers me. How would a product creator know what information would be new to you?
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  • Profile picture of the author gushy0202
    Its very rare to see honest reviews ion the WSO threads. Most of the reviews are paid reviews that come without a disclosure.

    We understand the seller needs reviews, but paid reviews at least should have a disclaimer in it.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by gushy0202 View Post

      Its very rare to see honest reviews on the WSO threads. Most of the reviews are paid reviews that come without a disclosure.

      We understand the seller needs reviews, but paid reviews at least should have a disclaimer in it.

      Unless you are looking at a bunch of Trash WSO's, then you are painting a lot of honest vendors as less than honest.

      But, I suppose that was your intent?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by gushy0202 View Post

      Its very rare to see honest reviews ion the WSO threads. Most of the reviews are paid reviews that come without a disclosure.

      We understand the seller needs reviews, but paid reviews at least should have a disclaimer in it.
      How the heck did you come to that conclusion? Gotta love when people jump to their own conclusions which in most cases turn out to be completely wrong.
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      • Profile picture of the author LloydC
        It was before my time here when WSO's used to be quality products, that then went on to clickbank to launch for 3,4,5x the orignal WSO price. Then, the WSO's about selling WSO's came around, and now you can make money online, by telling people how to make money online!(even though you never did in the first place).
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by LloydC View Post

          It was before my time here when WSO's used to be quality products, that then went on to clickbank to launch for 3,4,5x the orignal WSO price. Then, the WSO's about selling WSO's came around, and now you can make money online, by telling people how to make money online!(even though you never did in the first place).

          There still are quality WSO's... hello!!!
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          • Profile picture of the author LloydC
            Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

            There still are quality WSO's... hello!!!
            I know, I know. After re-reading that post I guess it can be taken the wrong way. My bad!
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    • Profile picture of the author Henry White
      Originally Posted by gushy0202 View Post

      Its very rare to see honest reviews ion the WSO threads. Most of the reviews are paid reviews that come without a disclosure.

      We understand the seller needs reviews, but paid reviews at least should have a disclaimer in it.
      Actually, the majority of them seem to be nothing more than an announcement that they've bought the product - sometimes with a little blather about previous WSO's, but rarely about this latest offer.

      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Unless you are looking at a bunch of Trash WSO's, then you are painting a lot of honest vendors as less than honest.

      But, I suppose that was your intent?
      Is that any more/less honest or ethical than blatantly asking for "Likes" on Facebook? I don't see how you can hold the vendor responsible for what's posted - but that isn't license to abuse the presumption of innocence.
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  • Profile picture of the author fedor50
    I know exactly what you mean. It all comes down to some people being good marketers and persuading people to buy a product even though it's crap
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    Aren't income claims illegal?
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    • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
      Originally Posted by Mick Meaney View Post

      Aren't income claims illegal?
      You basically can't make an income claim unless the typical buyer can expect to make that amount.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

        You basically can't make an income claim unless the typical buyer can expect to make that amount.

        But when you do it that way, you had better be prepared to prove it, if called on by the FTC to do so.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post

    I buy WSO's all the time. Most are well worth the super low prices.
    How much is something worth when it's at a "super low" price?

    Last weekend I was in town and I had a beer that cost as much as some WSO's.

    Half an hour later I released it down the toilet.

    Sometimes I think people expect too much for under $10.

    With respect to the OP, I'd stop buying WSO's "all the time".
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      How much is something worth when it's at a "super low" price?

      Last weekend I was in town and I had a beer that cost as much as some WSO's.

      Half an hour later I released it down the toilet.

      LOL


      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      Sometimes I think people expect too much for under $10.

      Yep, sometimes they do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Ayres
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      How much is something worth when it's at a "super low" price?

      Last weekend I was in town and I had a beer that cost as much as some WSO's.

      Half an hour later I released it down the toilet.

      Sometimes I think people expect too much for under $10.

      With respect to the OP, I'd stop buying WSO's "all the time".
      I totally agree with this statement, i think that if the op has nothing better to do than continuously buy cheap WSOs and then ask for refunds and complain then he doesnt really care about building a business anyway
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    • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      Sometimes I think people expect too much for under $10.
      You can walk into a bookstore today and buy a 300 page business book for $9.95.

      WSOs are generally a half page of text increased to a huge font size so it takes up 5 pages. You don't know what you are buying because the sales text is essentially a mystery box with people asking questions about it and the seller giving little hints as to what's inside. The whole process is so unprofessional.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

        WSOs are generally a half page of text increased to a huge font size so it takes up 5 pages. You don't know what you are buying because the sales text is essentially a mystery box with people asking questions about it and the seller giving little hints as to what's inside. The whole process is so unprofessional.

        What you have described deals mostly with those people who use blind copy to sell their offers.

        I just reviewed a WSO yesterday that was 87 pages of regular font.

        While not the norm, it is not that uncommon to see WSO's with that level of depth.

        Listing price on this item: $7.
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    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      How much is something worth when it's at a "super low" price?

      Last weekend I was in town and I had a beer that cost as much as some WSO's.

      Half an hour later I released it down the toilet.

      Sometimes I think people expect too much for under $10.

      With respect to the OP, I'd stop buying WSO's "all the time".
      Just to play Devil's Advocate, "what kind of customer do you expect to get when you price your product at $10?"
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

        Just to play Devil's Advocate, "what kind of customer do you expect to get when you price your product at $10?"
        I was just making the point that $10 is not that much and if, like the OP, you've bought lots of them and you thought they were all s***, then you ought to stop buying them.

        Or have a missed something? I'm assuming I have seeing as Paul has made a point of thanking you.
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        • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          I was just making the point that $10 is not that much and if, like the OP, you've bought lots of them and you thought they were all s***, then you ought to stop buying them.

          Or have a missed something? I'm assuming I have seeing as Paul has made a point of thanking you.
          Hey Richard,
          I was responding to "some people just expect way too much for $10." By the same token, when you price a product that low, you tend to attract people that expect a silk purse for a sow's ear, so to speak.

          -Dani

          P.S. My comment was not directed at you. I have no idea if you even have products, or what they cost. It was just a general comment on the 'state of the union,' which is a whole other conversation.
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

            Hey Richard,
            I was responding to "some people just expect way too much for $10." By the same token, when you price a product that low, you tend to attract people that expect a silk purse for a sow's ear, so to speak.

            -Dani

            P.S. My comment was not directed at you. I have no idea if you even have products, or what they cost. It was just a general comment on the 'state of the union,' which is a whole other conversation.
            No worries, I think we're saying the same thing. I'm just saying if you expected a silk purse for the sows ear and you kept getting disappointed, you ought to give the sows ears a break. You are right though. A cheap price point and a shiny sales letter attracts certain buyers.

            By the way, I don't sell anything here or even connected to IM, for the record.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveSRS
    use my WSO BS filter..
    as soon as you get just a little fed up by reading the WSO click that x right upper corner

    Really I understand your point as 'buying Wso', specially because they are priced so low is really kinda addictive and you need to force yourself think twice because there are plenty WSO's out there that can really play mind tricks with you. Also offering thousands and thousands of words and 1xxx hours of vidoes should be a big NO NO filter.. who has the time to view / read all that? If you are for real in this business you don't.. of course for starters you need to learn but trust me.. doing learns much better and faster then watching 1xxx hours of videos!

    I believe many of our 'gurus' here could easily go into politics (that should be the quote of the day). Speaking a lot and not saying a word!
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  • Profile picture of the author Stevie G
    What really annoys me is the time that you have to waste to find out that it's a pile of rubbish. That annoys me a lot kore than losing the $7.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Yep, sometimes they do.
      Having said that Bill I rarely buy a bad WSO. I buy from people that know the subject their teaching. Kindle for example, I'd come to you and I have done.

      Most people seem to fall for the sales copy or that shiny pill thingy and then get upset they lost $7, even though they nearly all have a refund policy.

      Imagine if they did that with beer - I'd be in heaven. "Hello landlord, I bought ten beers last night and it's turned to p*** and now I have a headache" - "No problem sir, we have a 100% refund policy, let me give you your money back".

      Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post

      What really annoys me is the time that you have to waste to find out that it's a pile of rubbish. That annoys me a lot kore than losing the $7.
      This is my point. They're not all rubbish, not at all. Some are worth 100's the price you pay. The problem is you are not buying from people that know their subject, you are buying from people that know how to make people looking for easy riches, give them their money.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    I think you you probably answered your own question, but just don't see it. You obviously know better, but you still buy the offer...what does that tell you?

    It sounds to me like you realize that WSO's with blind copy, outrageous income or traffic claims, etc., are total losers. You buy them because the copy was good enough to trigger the old greed reflex, even though you know you're going to be let down.

    If you're tired of being mislead, then stop buying them - it's pretty simple. If more people would start doing that, it would go a long ways to eliminating those types of WSO's.

    On the other hand, different people may get differing amounts of info out of the product. While you only got one or two nuggets out of it, it may have been pure gold to a hundred other folks.

    The last time we ran a WSO, John included a detailed bullet list of the exact topics discussed in the PDF. So imagine my surprise when, out of a couple of thousand sales, only person asked for a refund, stating there was nothing new in it.

    Uh, hello...LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author Justinfm
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I think you you probably answered your own question, but just don't see it. You obviously know better, but you still buy the offer...what does that tell you?

      It sounds to me like you realize that WSO's with blind copy, outrageous income or traffic claims, etc., are total losers. You buy them because the copy was good enough to trigger the old greed reflex, even though you know you're going to be let down.

      If you're tired of being mislead, then stop buying them - it's pretty simple. If more people would start doing that, it would go a long ways to eliminating those types of WSO's.

      On the other hand, different people may get differing amounts of info out of the product. While you only got one or two nuggets out of it, it may have been pure gold to a hundred other folks.

      The last time we ran a WSO, John included a detailed bullet list of the exact topics discussed in the PDF. So imagine my surprise when, out of a couple of thousand sales, only person asked for a refund, stating there was nothing new in it.

      Uh, hello...LOL

      It seems like my point has been switched to how WSO's are poor quality. My actual point is that while most WSO's that I purchase offer a good ROI, I'm still sick of being lied to. In other words, I find value in the WSO, but not nearly the value the sales hype would lead someone to believe. I don't buy because of the sales hype, I try to read between the lines and figure out what someone is actually going to provide.

      Obviously offering a detailed bullet list of what you are offering is a great way to explain exactly what you offer. Of course if it's hidden in between BS titles and claims (not to say yours was) it's easy to miss the meat of your offer.

      Now I've started avoiding the headlines, and reading the "here's what you get" section, watching the video if there is one, and looking to the thread for questions that I might have.

      I guess I just don't understand how people feel lying, in the context of an advertisement, is a defensible position. If you write a headline, and you know that if someone asked you a detailed question about that headline, it would fall apart like, "get 100's of local business owners banging down your door trying to hand you $400 checks." maybe that's not an honest way to sell your product.
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  • I find a lot of gold nuggets in free WSOs and also WSO's that provide proof of income and a guarantee.
    I have purchased some crappy ones in the past and have learnt my lesson from that.

    Now I only buy WSOs that are recommended to me by someone or that are very targeted to my specific business model.

    I also like to purchase software or plugin WSOs that make my work easier.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    ? what are you really peed off about, you say your having a rant about the WSO's but underneath all of that it seems your a little frustrated in finding something that works.

    Lets face it if you had something that works you would not be buying every WSO out there, but right now your like a headless chook running around chasing golden rainbows and with each rainbow you follow your getting more and more frustrated.

    And that is probably more common than not, but the one of the reasons why many WSO's fail is not that do not work or could not work but more so they are another mans dream / and or passion.

    To many people say or ask how do I make money but forget the passion and as such find they do not like what they are doing and as a result, the claims of this does not work or it offers no value are are spewed out as a result and on the person goes to follow another rainbow.

    I am not sure why more people do not find their passion first, then from there ask OK now I want to be involved with xyz what online methods will best work with this ? a blog, a web site or other, what other tools / WSO's will I need.

    But instead people just read make 1 gazillion dollars while sitting on a beach and buy into that crap, like your doing now, so instead of wasting your energy announcing your rant and future rants if your latest rainbow does not shine sparkles out of your backside, sit down and find your passion then adapt the online tools / applications and related options to help fuel your passion.

    Doing that would be a better use of your energy than playing a dummy spit game for everyone here and yourself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Justinfm
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      ? what are you really peed off about, you say your having a rant about the WSO's but underneath all of that it seems your a little frustrated in finding something that works.

      Lets face it if you had something that works you would not be buying every WSO out there, but right now your like a headless chook running around chasing golden rainbows and with each rainbow you follow your getting more and more frustrated.
      While I imagine you're right that this is the case for many. In my position, I'm looking for ways to provide more value to the customers I have and help my market further. I have an established business with customers, and am not looking for a new business model, but products that can help me run my current business better.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    When I buys a wso, I read the title and beginning - ie What does the product do. Then I scroll down to the buy button.

    I can't be ****d with reading long sales pages.

    If I have to scroll too far and therefore give up - I don't buy.

    Most WSOs I buy have been recommended, either in a thread or by a fellow warrior.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    I have the same thing in mind. I used to buy WSO 3 to 4 years ago but after I figured out everything (that most are always the same or just modified ebooks, ideas, etc), I stopped buying unless it is a promotional software.

    Internet Marketing is alive because of sales hype so that's normal. Just be wise in selecting WSO to buy.....
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  • Profile picture of the author IvinViljoen
    I've also had a couple of those where I pay for something and I realize, or it's blatantly said in the sale letter: 'This and this won't work until you buy this...'

    I hate that.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by IvinViljoen View Post

      I've also had a couple of those where I pay for something and I realize, or it's blatantly said in the sale letter: 'This and this won't work until you buy this...'

      I hate that.

      When you see that, go to the original WSO and hit the report button .

      It is against the WSO rules to sell any product that requires another product to be purchased to use it.
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  • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
    Then, if you ask half of the wso sellers "If you are so much confident, this wso will make me thousands of dollars, why are you selling it for $7".

    wso seller - "I love to help newbies"

    What can you say? Believe it or not, some people do lie here and they do lie all the time. There should be a difference between defending a good marketing strategy and a lie.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by ankur sharma View Post

      Then, if you ask half of the wso sellers "If you are so much confident, this wso will make me thousands of dollars, why are you selling it for $7".

      wso seller - "I love to help newbies"

      What can you say? Believe it or not, some people do lie here and they do lie all the time. There should be a difference between defending a good marketing strategy and a lie.

      I would prefer to start the sales price of all of my products at 17, 27 or 37, but this marketplace will not stand for that.

      To sell a product in this forum, you must start pricing in the $7 range, then dime-store the price.

      At a certain point, I will offer my products off forum for more realistic prices. I know that I can sell my products outside the forum, for 2-3 times the amount that I can successfully sell them for inside the forum.

      Just because you don't understand the marketing strategy does not mean that the marketing strategy is flawed or deceitful.
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  • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
    Then, if you ask half of the wso sellers "If you are so much confident, this wso will make me thousands of dollars, why are you selling it for $7".

    wso seller - "I love to help newbies"

    What can you say? Believe it or not, some people do lie here and they do lie all the time. There should be a difference between defending a good marketing strategy and a lie.
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  • Profile picture of the author nasuryono
    No, you are not being unreasonable. There are many people who are not expert themselves but claimed to be so by recycling informations that they get online.

    I would personally buy a case study WSO since it gives me a concrete proof over something. I also like to study from a real example, not just theory.
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  • Profile picture of the author seankaye
    One of the things I've learned from producing content and products is that it is impossible to please everyone. Do the best you can do, put it out there, embrace the fans and ignore the haters.

    I'll give an example. I have a content business we're just starting, so we crafted this ultra spun article that took an Australian PhD student a week to write properly so that it read well every spin and was ridiculously unique.

    I posted it on a forum, not here, but similar vein.

    First person buys it, ridiculously glowing review after working with it for an hour or two. They reported two or three typos, we fixed them and sent out an updated seed article.

    Second person buys it, within ten minutes of receiving the seed article I get a PM, "I want a refund, this is crap it is full of typos and spelling mistakes. If you don't give me a refund, I'll be forced to post an honest review."

    I apologise to the person for the problem, gladly offer a refund and ask for their help in fixing the issue, could they please list all the issues.

    I get an email back with 4 typos and 2 spelling "mistakes". Out of 15,000 words. And the two spelling mistakes weren't actually mistakes, the guy actually spelled them wrong himself.

    So we fixed the issues, sent out an update to this guy and now our other customers and again we offer him the refund. No response.

    Some people are just hard to deal with, I initially try and smother them with great customer service, but if that fails, refund them and move on.

    Life's too short.
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  • Profile picture of the author Menzieshunt
    sorry, being really naive here - what does WSO srand for ?
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    hey justin

    i hear what your saying and i know that there is some pure garbage that gets sold as wso`s but you just have to have your "bs detector on full"

    it`s fairly easy to research someone these days online

    i rarely buy wso`s but if was interested in one i would do some research on them first if i didnt know them to see what they have released previously and if it was good or not and also check out there online blogs or sites they have to see the sort of marketer they are

    another thing i will say justin is you are one of the oldest members of this forum :-P

    i would hope by now that being in the IM industry for over 10 years your bs detector is highly tuned

    there`s nothing wrong with buying the odd wso which you think would help to push your business forward but anyone buying them on a regular basis makes it sound like there looking for magic pill :-)

    paul
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  • Profile picture of the author DeborahDera
    It is your conscious choice to continue buying WSO products. If WSO products aren't working for you, perhaps you should start looking for other educational/reference sources.

    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post

    I buy WSO's all the time. Most are well worth the super low prices. That said, I'm really getting sick of reading long sales letters making several outrageous promises, only to find that the end product might have 1-2 new pieces of information. While these takeaways are generally worth the price of the WSO, it sucks to be lied to.

    A while back I remember a WSO that promised (I'm paraphrasing) 1000's of red hot offline business owners ready to pay you $497, each month. Really, you're selling me a half million dollar a month business model?

    I understand the concept of 'Buyer Beware' and the fact that the money involved is low, and the product almost always comes with a guarantee. All of that said, I don't think that should encourage people to lie or even grossly exaggerate.

    My old concept was to keep a product if I got at least one good idea. From now on, I'm going to hold people to what they promise in their sales letter. This is the only way I can think of to do my little part to encourage truth in advertising. I may start adding honest reviews as to the products I return as well, however I imagine either or both of these activities will lead to some sellers blocking me.

    What do you think? Am I being unreasonable?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Bill,
      P.S. When I want to leave a bad review on a WSO, I never ask for a refund, as some people will say that since you didn't -- in the end -- pay for the item, you don't have justification to leave comments on the offer.
      Please let me know if any seller tells you that in the future. That is not an accurate statement.

      If you buy a product and leave a review that follows the rules and is truthful*, it stays. Even if you get a refund. Otherwise, sellers could guarantee nothing but positive comments by simply refunding anyone who didn't find the product up to snuff and was willing to say so.

      Claiming that you can't post a review if you get a refund is right up there with telling customers they have to remove legitimate negative reviews in order to have a refund request honored. I've banned sellers for that, and will again if I hear they're doing it.
      What you have described deals mostly with those people who use blind copy to sell their offers.
      No longer allowed in the WSO section. If you see it, please report it.

      gushy0202,
      Most of the reviews are paid reviews that come without a disclosure.
      Oh? I see that claim occasionally, and it's rarely supported by anything other than the sort of ridiculous prejudice you just displayed.

      "Most?" Get real. That's just silly.

      Affiliates should mention they're affiliates when they leave a review. You're absolutely right on that. They hardly constitute the majority of comments on most (any?) products that I've seen.

      We see reports of "fake reviews" occasionally. It's very rare that there's any truth to them. When there is, the sellers are banned, along with the posters of the fake reviews.

      Cat,
      If you enable stupid arguments, expect to get more of them.
      Well said.


      Paul

      * Note to sellers: "Truthful" does not necessarily equate to "agrees with your assessment of your own product."
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  • Profile picture of the author realreview
    I'm not sure I'm completely convinced by the re-hash argument. After all someone mentioned it is only rehashed if you have seen it before. Let's not forget the while entertainment industry thrives on rehashing old content. Music covers, modern versions of old stories.
    If I buy a WSO that I have seen all the info before I'll ask for a refund, but most times even one new twist will allow me to keep it.
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  • From what I've witnessed as of lately, the problem of the WSO section is that buyers don't apply ANY type of common sense in their buying process. They are simply gullible customers buying into every sort of crap hoping to stumble upon an untapped gold mine just by buying WSO after WSO.

    Here's a real example:

    Few days ago I spotted a WSO that promised, literally, the following: "How to create a 6-figure business in a weekend" (that was in fact the WSO thread title). Upon reading this outrageous claim, and since he had posted no proof at all, I inquired the WSO creator to provide any sort of proof that he himself runs a 6-figure business himself, just so I could be sure that he in fact knows from experience what he's teaching on his WSO.
    • Guess what #1: he refused to provide any proof whatsoever. I inquired again, to which he replied, literally, the following: I will not provide any proof. If that's a deal breaker, don't buy.
    • Guess what #2: he sold out all the seats for this WSO (it was a $197 mentoring program), and there were even people queuing up asking if they could still buy in because they didn't want to miss out on such "amazing" opportunity... :rolleyes:
    I couldn't help but wonder: how can anyone be so ****'ing gullible to pay $197 to a random anonymous dude on the internet who is unwilling to provide any type of proof whatsoever to back up his outrageous claims? It's so sad

    That's the problem with WSOs: it's not the unscrupulous vendors... it's gullible buyers who encourage those unscrupulous vendors by buying into absolutely every crap released without conducting any common sense thinking at all.

    WSO buyers... THINK before buying!
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    • Profile picture of the author Palusko
      Even if he proved he has 6-figure business, it would not prove he created it over a weekend.
      Anyway, even if he wasn't running a 6-figure business, he very well may be now, after the WSO sold out. And, he made it happen quite literally over a weekend... See, it is possible ;-)

      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post


      Few days ago I spotted a WSO that promised, literally, the following: "How to create a 6-figure business in a weekend" (that was in fact the WSO thread title). Upon reading this outrageous claim, I inquired the WSO creator to provide any sort of proof that he himself runs a 6-figure business himself, just so I could be sure that he in fact knows from experience what he's teaching on his WSO.
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      • Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

        Even if he proved he has 6-figure business, it would not prove he created it over a weekend.
        Anyway, even if he wasn't running a 6-figure business, he very well may be now, after the WSO sold out. And, he made it happen quite literally over a weekend... See, it is possible ;-)
        Old school "fake it until you make it", isnt it?

        Now being serious: the point of my post is that WSO buyers buy into stuff that provides no proof or credential whatsoever.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeLogan
          Rather then buying so many WSO's, people should start focusing on what is making some of those WSO's so successful. Not the scammy, zero proof, hyped to the moon posts, but the ones that deliver value.

          Find a product on there that delivers, that people are raving about. Give some thought to why people are buying it. Examine the sales letter.

          Could you make a product that's even better?
          Could you deliver an even better customer experience?

          The people who make it SELL their way to success. Success cannot be purchased.
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          • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
            Richard... TY...

            Anonymous Affiliate,
            Hasn't anyone told you? There is nothing 'common' about 'common sense.'

            As far as WSO's... and the onus on the the buyer or the vendor... between you me, and the lamp post, it's my (not so humble) opinion that the cause of the problem is that there is an 'affiliate program' for WSO's. It is my, very not so humble and very unpopular opinion that having an affiliate program for WSO's pretty much goes against the entire spirit OF the WSO section.

            It was a warm, and targeted market, where you already had trust. An affiliate program brought a lot of new members (and a lot of new newbies) who built 'lists' of the warm pool of prospects and then, in return for creating another competing list owner, wanted $10.00 per customer that they gave up to the vendor they promoted, who they are now going to be competing with for tomorrow's WSO' mailouts.

            And since $10 is a pretty easy sale to make... that's what affiliates want you to price at, or they won't promote you, and right now, they have a stranglehold on the traffic, so vendors don't have much choice.
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            • Profile picture of the author Cali16
              Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

              Richard... between you me, and the lamp post, it's my (not so humble) opinion that the cause of the problem is that there is an 'affiliate program' for WSO's. It is my, very not so humble and very unpopular opinion that having an affiliate program for WSO's pretty much goes against the entire spirit OF the WSO section.
              Definitely agree with you on this one, Danielle. The WSO forum is so different than it was when I joined the WF 5 years ago.

              So much for "the good 'ol days"....sigh.... (now I sound like my parents used to! :rolleyes
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              • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                Definitely agree with you on this one, Danielle. The WSO forum is so different than it was when I joined the WF 5 years ago.

                So much for "the good 'ol days"....sigh.... (now I sound like my parents used to! :rolleyes
                I agree whole heartedly. It's changed dramtically since I joined 2 years ago.

                Sorry, it's changed radically since the affiliate program began and that was, umm, when I stopped looking in there unless someone I respect and listen to, recommends something.

                Dani, I think you smacked the nail firmly on the head there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Good analogy Danielle, they have "peed in the pool" so to speak.
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  • Profile picture of the author kxp
    Banned
    I never bought any WSO because they all look phishy.
    I have only one idea about all WSOs and any other "courses": if something brings me great money I would never sell it. So the conclusion is that those guys make money by selling WSOs to other guys like OP.

    This is not related to themes, writing and other services, it's only about "courses"/ebooks.

    IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author williamk
    Banned
    I would follow bills advice. You should learn to discern the good WSO and the bad WSo's.
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  • Profile picture of the author natas105
    i understand where you are coming from and I must say that I agree with you as many promisses are made. Most of the wso's I bought are outdated or are disappointing. Especially the ones that are $9.95 and up. I found that usually the cheaper ones have somehat of a value.

    I understand the setup of a good salespage, but it's refreshing to see a short and to the point salesletter that is not so hypie.
    I'm also surprisd to see some feedbacks you get when you ask for a refund or post an honest review on their wso thread. My reviews or comments are always respectful, but sometimes i get a response that really surprises me. Like you, i'm holding the seller to what they are promissing. Nothing more.

    Luckily most of the warriors are a great help and really friendly and every once in a while you buy a wso that is just awsome!

    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author slicka
    you have to understand that there will always be people that think a WSO wasnt worth it, while others think it was.

    You should def stop buying them all the time, but as another person here said what are you expecting for $10 or less? a beer at some places around me is $12
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    • Profile picture of the author xparte
      Originally Posted by slicka View Post

      you have to understand that there will always be people that think a WSO wasnt worth it, while others think it was.

      You should def stop buying them all the time, but as another person here said what are you expecting for $10 or less? a beer at some places around me is $12
      People sell it at $10 a piece because there is a pool of thousands of buyers here. As little as I know about WSOs, my understanding is that a successful WSO brings their creators thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, and for that kind of dough it's not unreasonable to expect a quality job.
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post


    I'm really getting sick of reading long sales letters making several outrageous promises, only to find that the end product might have 1-2 new pieces of information. While these takeaways are generally worth the price of the WSO, it sucks to be lied to.


    To you it might be only 1-2 pieces of new information but to a newbie everthing in that WSO could be brand new.

    One thing that you start to notice after awhile is most WSO's are all variations on the basics.

    Some people might call this rehashed information, but truthfully there are only so many models out there.

    either you promote someone else's product,

    or

    you can promote your own product

    or

    you can sell services online or offline

    There are tons of variations on these basic models but nothing really truly revolutionary.

    This is what you are probably experiencing because you have bought a bunch of WSO's and you have gathered all that information so maybe it truly is time for you to stopy buying and start taking action.

    Having said all of this, I do realize that there are some people who are going to lie in their ad copy. But that is partly up to you to detect. If you see something that promises you $100,000 a month with no work, no effort, a true set it and forget business, all for $7. Well c'mon you are an adult and should be able to see through something like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author gundammeister
    It's a gentleman's club where they mutually post positive reviews of one's WSO to encourage sales or they may be affiliates for the particular WSO.
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