43 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
43 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Is this REALLY fair?

by WillR
35 replies
I just wanted to ask a question.

I have noticed something happening in the WSO forum lately and I'm interested as to how others feel about this.

1. Vendor launches a WSO product.

2. Vendor states the product will ONLY be made available for 7 days or some limited time period.

3. Vendor sells a whole bunch of copies.

4. Vendor finishes selling the product 7 days later and asks for their WSO thread to be closed.

5. Product is actually quite crap. Support is lacking, almost non-existent. As customers start to realize this and want refunds, they no longer have a WSO thread to leave their honest (albeit negative) feedback in.

6. Others who now come by this thread do not get to see any of the REAL negative comments from people who have actually used the product and as such they are misled into thinking the product and vendor were reputable. Let's face it, the real comments and reviews are those that come after people have implemented something and that generally takes longer than a few days or a week.

So my question. Is this really fair?

In my opinion a WSO thread, whether the product is still selling or not, should be left open indefinitely so people can post their feedback. I have been talking with a number of people lately who went through this exact same experience. They purchased a product. By the time they realized it was not what they expected or the support was just non-existent, they go back to post about it in the WSO thread and it's been closed.

So future customers of that vendor are none the wiser.
#fair
  • Profile picture of the author GorillazGoods
    Did the products you mention come with some sort of money back guarantee? If there is and if the product actually was much worse than people realized, they should be able to immediately ask for a refund or file a transaction dispute via Paypal or whatever company did the payment processing.
    Signature
    Get Exclusive Access To Top Rated Marketing Products of 2014

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779014].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John J M
    I agree that the best thing to do would leave the thread open for honest feedback, but it sounds like that's exactly what the vendor didn't want.

    It's sad to say that I've bought more than 1 WSO that was not worth a penny, but in those cases, the thread was still open and the vendor was always bombarded with negative feedback.

    I just don't get this way concept from people making products. How do they expect there reputation to stay in tact, and how do they feel okay with ripping people off and not giving them anything of value.

    Did the vendor say there would be refunds and then didn't grant them? That would definitely be unfair, but I think it's up to him/her to close the thread. Obviously, it's not the right thing to do, but as far as "fair," I don't know any rule against it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779029].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author edwinkoh
    Originally Posted by WillR View Post

    So my question. Is this really fair?

    In my opinion a WSO thread, whether the product is still selling or not, should be left open indefinitely so people can post their feedback. I have been talking with a number of people lately who went through this exact same experience. They purchased a product. By the time they realized it was not what they expected or the support was just non-existent, they go back to post about it in the WSO thread and it's been closed.

    So future customers of that vendor are none the wiser.
    The WSO system is actually much more protected than say... the clickbank/jvzoo marketplace.

    At the very least, we have a community here to bring up issues whenever there are cases of injustice, which I think parellels the level playing field between customers and merchants. And the great thing is that when a product is crap, you'll probably see it in the WSO thread, which is probably enough intelligence you can gather to NOT buy.

    I think it is only not fair if the vendor does not offer a refund, or honour the refund clause.
    Signature
    GoldenGooseSystem.Blogspot.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779048].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I don't think it should have anything to do with refunds or not. If we want a full disclosure marketplace then people should be able to post their feedback whether they purchased the first day a product launched or whether they purchased it 3 weeks after a product launched.

    Feedback is feedback and as a consumer I would much rather hear from those people who have gone and used a product and actually put it into action rather than all the butt kissing (often meaningless) reviews you get in the first couple of days of a product launch.

    That's just my opinion though.
    Signature

    .


    .

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779075].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      If we want a full disclosure marketplace then people should be able to post their feedback whether they purchased the first day a product launched or whether they purchased it 3 weeks after a product launched.
      I think that's where you are confused. The Warrior Forum is not a marketplace. It is a chat forum that sells classified ads.
      Signature

      Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779704].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    They shouldn't be left open indefinitely but they should remain open for comments a few weeks.

    At the same time, they shouldn't be able to delete the sales letter either.
    Signature
    Screw You, NameCheap!
    $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:
    SAVEABUCKDOMAINS & DOLLARDOMAINSAVINGS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779281].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      They shouldn't be left open indefinitely but they should remain open for comments a few weeks.

      At the same time, they shouldn't be able to delete the sales letter either.
      The problem is when weeks after a launch, the WSO thread is closed and you have people posting about the product in other forums saying they are getting absolutely no support and the product is not working as it should.

      This should be stuff they can post in the WSO thread for others to see.
      Signature

      .


      .

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779298].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author GMT
      I think it's an interesting situation. Partly because I get where you guys are coming from but at the same time i've heard a number of Warriors complain about others complaining about their WSO's and leaving unfavorable comments when they

      1) haven't even tried the product
      2) may just do it out of cynicism, boredom, personal grudge , for competitive reasons etc...

      I think in both cases it's actually not fair for the seller to have their sales hurt and possibly their reputation tainted for the reasons above. I think if posters are held accountable for things they say then that will even out the playing field and forcing the threads to remain open a certain time frame makes sense. Both sides getting a fair shake helps everyone IMHO.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779310].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author eeeasyas12345
    Hi, you can always start a new thread yourself and tell other people not to buy the product if you think it is no good, just in case they try to do it again after a little while. Maybe that way they'll give you your money back to stop the bad publicity.
    Signature
    http://www.FreeGamesSquare.com
    http://www.SecretWeightLossForAll.com
    http://www.ChildrenBedStories.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779300].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by eeeasyas12345 View Post

      Hi, you can always start a new thread yourself and tell other people not to buy the product if you think it is no good
      No you can't.

      What I HAVE seen before is when a vendor releases a new product and people come into that thread to leave negative comments related to a previous product yet the rule is you can only post about the product being sold. So these vendors get away without that negative feedback being posted anywhere because their old thread is closed and you can't post it in their new thread.
      Signature

      .


      .

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779313].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author eeeasyas12345
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        No you can't.

        What I HAVE seen before is when a vendor releases a new product and people come into that thread to leave negative comments related to a previous product yet the rule is you can only post about the product being sold. So these vendors get away without that negative feedback being posted anywhere because their old thread is closed and you can't post it in their new thread.
        Yes, I understand, but can't you start a thread yourself talking about the product, not post a comment on their thread. Is that against the rules too?
        Signature
        http://www.FreeGamesSquare.com
        http://www.SecretWeightLossForAll.com
        http://www.ChildrenBedStories.com
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779331].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by eeeasyas12345 View Post

          Yes, I understand, but can't you start a thread yourself talking about the product, not post a comment on their thread. Is that against the rules too?
          Nope, you can't do that. It's not allowed.

          Originally Posted by lollobrigida View Post

          I think 7 days is way too short and forever is way too long.
          I agree that forever is too long but I can't help but feel some of these people are kind of 'getting away' with something here.
          Signature

          .


          .

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779363].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author eeeasyas12345
            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            Nope, you can't do that. It's not allowed.



            I agree that forever is too long but I can't help but feel some of these people are kind of 'getting away' with something here.
            Wow, I guess your answer is "IT IS NOT FAIR" then.
            Signature
            http://www.FreeGamesSquare.com
            http://www.SecretWeightLossForAll.com
            http://www.ChildrenBedStories.com
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779366].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author salegurus
              Originally Posted by edwinkoh View Post

              The WSO system is actually much more protected than say... the clickbank/jvzoo marketplace.
              I doubt that, Clickbank refunds no questions asked for up to 60 days if I rem correctly. WF is not involved in the selling process only provides a platform for sellers.
              Signature
              Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

              ― George Carlin
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779640].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
            Banned
            Originally Posted by WillR View Post


            I agree that forever is too long but I can't help but feel some of these people are kind of 'getting away' with something here.
            Why is "forever" too long? Non-wso threads stay open "forever", don't they? Assuming rules aren't being broken, there's no more reason to close a WSO thread after a certain time than any other thread. And that's why your suspicion is probably right: Some of them are trying to get away with something.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779831].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author lollobrigida
              Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

              Why is "forever" too long? Non-wso threads stay open "forever", don't they? Assuming rules aren't being broken, there's no more reason to close a WSO thread after a certain time than any other thread. And that's why your suspicion is probably right: Some of them are trying to get away with something.
              Hmm...what you say makes sense... but
              have you read the thread/arguments Joseph had linked to?
              For me that explains the "other sides" pretty drastically.

              I think we need to weigh out the interests of buyers, sellers and the forum
              itself...or the marketplace. Right now I think the buyers are the weakest and this needs to be more leveled.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6781116].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        No you can't.

        What I HAVE seen before is when a vendor releases a new product and people come into that thread to leave negative comments related to a previous product yet the rule is you can only post about the product being sold. So these vendors get away without that negative feedback being posted anywhere because their old thread is closed and you can't post it in their new thread.
        ? so is the current enviroment / rules allowing dodgy people to operate is more the question then ? and to avoid that a wso should stay open and allow full transparancy over a long term time frame, as the wso owner should make a last post this offer is now closed but leave its stutus as open not locked.
        Signature
        | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779346].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lollobrigida
    I haven't realized that this happens ... but I second your opinion, Will.

    The first couple of reviews are usually from people who received a copy for free and
    from people who are excited about their purchase... both groups have usually not put
    anything in action, really worked the WSO or even had a chance to make a $ with it.
    The later reviews are certainly more valuable...

    On the other hand an open thread (even with a disabled/deleted buy button) will ask for continuous responding and support. I'm not sure if you can really force anyone to commit to that on an endless basis.

    I think 7 days is way too short and forever is way too long.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779358].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    I have not had this happen to me, but I'm a cynical ******* and I reckon a good chunk of WSO's are crap anyway. With that being said I must agree that there is some real value in the WSO area and some people really are making good income with things they have learned from there.

    So without having had this happen to me, It makes perfect sense to me.

    But wouldnt enough complaints in the from warrior forum members to the forum or paypal shut the wso merchants accounts down anyway?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779367].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gotti3636
    But what is the point in leaving the thread open if your WSO is closed and will not be re-opened? Who wants waste their time reading reviews (positive or negative) when they can not buy it anymore anyway? If the thread is closed and is going further and further away from the first couple of WSO listing pages then who will actually see what is being posted after it is closed and no one is sending traffic to it?

    I understand your point about perhaps leaving the thread open for support but I don't believe the WSO thread is the place for product support, the vendor should supply at least a support email address for that.
    Signature
    Always looking to invest in or partner with people on business ideas. PM me!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779380].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by gotti3636 View Post

      But what is the point in leaving the thread open if your WSO is closed and will not be re-opened? Who wants waste their time reading reviews (positive or negative) when they can not buy it anymore anyway? If the thread is closed and is going further and further away from the first couple of WSO listing pages then who will actually see what is being posted after it is closed and no one is sending traffic to it?

      I understand your point about perhaps leaving the thread open for support but I don't believe the WSO thread is the place for product support, the vendor should supply at least a support email address for that.
      I am not talking about support specifically. I am talking about people having the ability to come back and post real and honest reviews weeks after a product has launched. If the vendor is someone who releases regular WSO offers then yes, it does interest me as a consumer as to how their last offers have been received. I, as I am sure others do, like to take a look at past offers that person has released because it gives me a very good indication as to the type of person you are dealing with and how they support their products.

      It's all good and well to say the vendor should have a support link or email address, but what about those who close their threads and ignore all support and refund requests? Yes, it happens.

      Then they go and release a new product weeks later yet those 'stung' on the first product are not allowed to post their negative experiences in the new WSO thread and the old thread is closed. So where do these people get to publicize their negative experiences with this vendor?

      THAT is the issue I have.
      Signature

      .


      .

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779413].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author shane_k
      Originally Posted by gotti3636 View Post

      But what is the point in leaving the thread open if your WSO is closed and will not be re-opened? Who wants waste their time reading reviews (positive or negative) when they can not buy it anymore anyway?
      .

      Even if the WSO is closed and will not be re-opened, that Seller is more than likely going to be selling another product in the future.

      and if they are going to sell another product in the future, then the point is to allow us to have a better idea of what the character of the WSO seller is like.


      Let's say that you go to the WSO section right after reading this post. And there is a product that catches your eye. The Ad copy is great and gets you excited, and you read the through the reviews and they appear all positive.

      So you then decide to click on the WSO sellers name, and you check out some of his older WSO's that he had on offer.

      In those old threads you see that this seller has been dodging requests for support, has gotten negative reviews, has been disrepectful and deceitful to other customers, wouldn't you like to know that before you purchase his product?

      It comes down to wanting to know if you can trust the seller or not. And that is the point.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779697].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't think they should be closed for a defined period of time, say 3 months. There's plenty I've seen that start to crash and burn and the seller disappears and don't honor refunds or provide support. A buyer feels like they have no recourse at all if the thread is closed. They can't use the thread to request a refund, leave their review, or request that their support questions be answered.

    But I've seen several that do stay open and when people request that their support tickets or questions be answered, they get a bunch of crap from the seller saying they don't provide support in the thread. They aren't really providing support anywhere else either. One in particular was for software that never worked. It failed, but the fix was coming .... and coming ... and coming... until the Paypal dispute period passed and then it was obvious no fix was coming and no support questions were answered in the thread and anything negative said by the customer was countered by the seller aggressively badgering the customer... and they got to keep the money. Very slick.

    But back to the original question, yeah ... they should stay open so customers have some voice after they've had time to evaluate the product and results.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779431].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    I absolulely agree Will. This is something that I noticed a while ago.

    Personally, I can't see any reason why a WSO thread should ever be closed. After all, the vendor is able to have comments removed if they are deemed malicious.

    Another oddity that I saw was a thread that was bumped quite a few times but yet it was closed to comments.

    Someone wouldn't keep paying to bump the thread unless it was making them money but why would they not want any more comments? Now that is dodgy!

    If a thread is closed to comments the vendor shouldn't be allowed to keep bumping it. I know that most people wouldn't buy from a thread that is closed but there must be some who still do, maybe people new to the forum who just see the 'review' feedback (which is usually glowing... ).

    Vendors who close WSO threads to comments make me question the ethics of that vendor.

    Every purchaser should be allowed to voice their opinion when they have had the chance to try out the product.


    Karen
    Signature

    Never Mistake Activity for Accomplishment

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779471].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779594].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lollobrigida
      Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

      I agree with you Will but I guess it's up to Allen, Richard Bowen asked the same question in this thread and he and Paul Myers had a back and forth constructive discussion on the matter.
      Thanks for the tip... I enjoyed that thread...good arguments and good laughs.
      Unbelievable just how many types of idiots show up here...

      So a 30-day-rule for all WSOs seems possible...
      that's better than a week but not enough iMHO.

      On the other hand I can confirm from a recent issue I was involved in that reporting to the mods not only works but gets you results in a very timely manner. In this case the originator of the WSO was banned and also at least one of the guys who were giving false reviews.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779685].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jficarro
    I agree. I never understood why people would close the thread anyway. Guess I'm too trusting. You can end sales without closing the thread.

    And this allows people to better gauge how trust worthy the vendor is, so they can determine if they want to do business w/them in the future.

    This is a great idea and I hope it becomes part of the forum rules.

    The only caveat is maybe a time limit. Because it would be annoying to have a two year old WSO that you still have to monitor as a seller. Maybe a "3 month after the sales are closed" rule?
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779694].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author wordpressmania
    Originally Posted by WillR View Post

    I just wanted to ask a question.

    I have noticed something happening in the WSO forum lately and I'm interested as to how others feel about this.

    1. Vendor launches a WSO product.

    2. Vendor states the product will ONLY be made available for 7 days or some limited time period.

    3. Vendor sells a whole bunch of copies.

    4. Vendor finishes selling the product 7 days later and asks for their WSO thread to be closed.

    5. Product is actually quite crap. Support is lacking, almost non-existent. As customers start to realize this and want refunds, they no longer have a WSO thread to leave their honest (albeit negative) feedback in.

    6. Others who now come by this thread do not get to see any of the REAL negative comments from people who have actually used the product and as such they are misled into thinking the product and vendor were reputable. Let's face it, the real comments and reviews are those that come after people have implemented something and that generally takes longer than a few days or a week.

    So my question. Is this really fair?

    In my opinion a WSO thread, whether the product is still selling or not, should be left open indefinitely so people can post their feedback. I have been talking with a number of people lately who went through this exact same experience. They purchased a product. By the time they realized it was not what they expected or the support was just non-existent, they go back to post about it in the WSO thread and it's been closed.

    So future customers of that vendor are none the wiser.
    According to my experience...... If you are not the creator of the WSO your post-sell-support will not be up the point.

    I see a lot of people hiring some guy from developing country and they are selling those products here.... I am not telling that outsourcing is not good. But if you can not provide post-sell -support you should not outsource.

    I personally develop my product that is why I can offer better post-sell-support...

    it should be a burning questions that whether we are honest or not.... We are here to earn for a long term not closing our business after selling some products..... It will be bad for all of us here at the long run..... I am a newbie here and I think senior members should be more conscious about this fact and should protest this to make this marketplace more clean.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6779728].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author therichb
    This is true, WSO thread should be kept open for a limited time frame not indefinitely as it can become a discussion thread soon more about the vendor & nothing else, so this is the biggest reason the threads are closed....

    Mostly buyers have the option to test the offer in a quick tat & they can come back with their honest reviews, & in the meantime, thread will be open to receive feedbacks...
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6780121].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    An Itrader type system would be a great way to see the seller's history in one location. You can learn a lot by the way a seller (or buyer) reacts to feedback.
    Signature

    - Stop Wasting Time & Money on Traffic!
    - You Can't Improve What You Don't Measure
    - Why You Should Create Separate Desktop and Mobile Google Adwords Campaigns
    Connect with me on LinkedIn
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6780141].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author liindsay
    Definitely makes sense.

    If I see a WSO which catches my eye, I will usually do a search to see if any other WSOs have been released from said author. If I can find anything, I will most likely read through the thread and base my decision of previous comments and reviews from members here.

    100% agree that threads shouldn't be closed, but rather they could be "tagged" as finished? This would also help sellers, as they could get an idea if there is more demand for their product.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6780173].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I'm kind of divided on this issue. I do see that closing a WSO thread can be used in the way Will is suggesting but I also think that because the thread is paid for by the vendor they should be able to have the thread closed whenever they want too.

    Holding a conversation on a paid advertisement is a benefit not an entitlement.

    Besides if the wso thread is closed there's always this section of the forum.

    Internet Marketing Product Reviews & Ratings

    Underutilized if you ask me.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6781164].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bill Hugall
    No this isn't fair. I know of one in particular where the vendor has completely disappeared.
    They should have to at least keep the thread open until the end of the 30 days or whatever after the last sale. The way it is keeps it open to scammers with great sales copy. Great question and I do hope they do something about it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6781220].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HelpingYouBeAnExpert
    I saw posts like:

    I need someone who will make a WSO for me (for cheap) and do the support for me (for cheap) i want 100% of the profit and yes, I i"m not an expert and never made a penny online.

    Ok, so there you go this is the result.

    People want cheap, free, esasy fast and if you dare say work then .....

    get the point?
    Signature

    Join Next Live Mastermind Zoominar 100% Real World Secrets to Get Up And Running. Are you Stuck? Don’t miss it www.MonthlyMastermind.org
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6781337].message }}

Trending Topics