Do I HAVE to do SEO to survive

38 replies
Hi Guys

I have seen millions of threads and posts about how essential SEO is, but do we always HAVE to do it?

For example I have a trading website that I have worked very hard on. Its is full of well written original articles, images and videos.

I am constantly updating and adding new content.

The question is, do I have to concentrate on SEO and article sites,backlink pyramids etc...

I have a Facebook, Twitter and Youtube account all linked to the site, is this enough?

I dont get enough traffic and I am starting to think if it is worth starting to do SEO everyday..

Discuss...
#seo #survive
  • Profile picture of the author craigslist
    SEO is essential no doubt about it if you list your site in Google Places you will start to see quite a bit more traffic
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  • Profile picture of the author Izerman
    It depends on the niche in my opinion.
    I've "dominated" certain niches without any search engine traffic at all.
    But in your case I would suggest that you do seo.

    /Izerman
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    • Profile picture of the author FredJones
      Love this reply. I'm sure you are joking by "domainated" those trafficless niches, so had a nice smile reading this one...

      Yeah, I think I rank #1 for quite a few terms also, however inadvertently, that are trafficless wonders.

      Originally Posted by Izerman View Post

      It depends on the niche in my opinion.
      I've "dominated" certain niches without any search engine traffic at all.
      But in your case I would suggest that you do seo.

      /Izerman
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
    SEO is not essential.

    It is just one form of traffic generation. And, in my opinion, a shaky one. Webmasters spend months and months optimizing their site and writing content for Google. All the while, having to worry if a huge portion of their traffic is going to disappear when the next algorithm change is put in place.

    I, personally, don't even bother with Google (or any search engine) and I have been steadily increasing my traffic everyday.

    While you may see a large amount of people spouting the absoluteness of SEO'ing for Google, these are the same people who you will see posting threads like, "Site disappeared from rankings - 80% of traffic lost overnight... help!" when Google implements new changes and drops their site.

    While SEO has its place in a traffic generation campaign, I'd recommend to focus on getting direct traffic through other sources. The key is diversity. This ensures that your business is not relying heavily on any one traffic source.

    This thread may help you:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...technique.html
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    • Profile picture of the author ichimoku
      Originally Posted by Robert M Gouge View Post

      SEO is not essential.

      It is just one form of traffic generation. And, in my opinion, a shaky one. Webmasters spend months and months optimizing their site and writing content for Google. All the while, having to worry if a huge portion of their traffic is going to disappear when the next algorithm change is put in place.

      I, personally, don't even bother with Google (or any search engine) and I have been steadily increasing my traffic everyday.

      While you may see a large amount of people spouting the absoluteness of SEO'ing for Google, these are the same people who you will see posting threads like, "Site disappeared from rankings - 80% of traffic lost overnight... help!" when Google implements new changes and drops their site.

      While SEO has it's place in a traffic generation campaign, I'd recommend to focus on getting direct traffic through other sources. The key is diversity. This ensures that your business is not relying heavily on any one traffic source.

      This thread may help you:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...technique.html
      Yes thats what I am scared of, it seems google can penalise you if you make one step out of place, I just want to concentrate on my website and spend all my time on making it a great place to hang out, hopefully the traffic will come naturally
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  • Profile picture of the author BiggyJ
    Since your site is based on articles I would say you are missing on A LOT of potential traffic not being concerned about SEO. A LOT!
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    • You don't HAVE to do seo, no.

      It depends on the business model, you could get all the traffic you ever need without a single visitor from a search engine.

      However, if you are creating valuable content which your market finds useful, and keep doing it and sharing it around, then you'lll get some seo long term anyway!

      Cheers,
      Gordon
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  • Profile picture of the author Bobby Asburn
    SEO is of course essential. At first you need to make sure you have done onpage SEO properly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    The best SEO practices for the real time are those that seem to be nonexistent.

    SEO can and usually will give you the slowest traffic return but many of us find it beneficial to always keep it in mind. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to SEO (both on and off) their content and still make it very readable.

    Using quicker traffic generation techniques in the forefront and building a SEO empire in the back end gives you traffic at all stages of the game and also allows for long term and at some point effortless traffic in the not so distant future.
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  • SEO like many other forms of marketing, is simply a medium used to distribute your information.

    Just like radio, television, and even facebook.

    Sure you can survive without it, but you're missing out on a very big opportunity to capture a huge percentage of your market..

    The idea is to go where your customers are.

    So you really have two options:

    You can go were a few of your customers are, or you can go where they all are.

    I recommend learning the basics of SEO and outsourcing the rest.
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  • Profile picture of the author ichimoku
    I have done a lot of SEO on site, I use thesis wordpress theme that helps a lot, its just I dont want to duplicate any content on the internet by posting to article sites...
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    • Profile picture of the author Nicole7575
      It's desirable but not mandatory PROVIDED you are capable of driving traffic via other mediums that offer comparable RoI
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      • Profile picture of the author ichimoku
        Originally Posted by Nicole7575 View Post

        It's desirable but not mandatory PROVIDED you are capable of driving traffic via other mediums that offer comparable RoI
        Well I am starting to spend more time on blogs and other forums, so hopefully this will attract some more traffice (if done right)
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        • Profile picture of the author NicoleElmore
          Originally Posted by ichimoku View Post

          Well I am starting to spend more time on blogs and other forums, so hopefully this will attract some more traffice (if done right)
          One technique to increase your ranking and improve your SEO is getting listed in directories and/or other people's sites, and thus creating backlinks.

          feel free to contact me and I will add your link to my site Blog Link Exchange - Mutually Beneficial Relationships - Backlink for Your Site . Please fill out the form on the site to ensure that your link addition will be in queue rather than requesting it in a reply.

          The space on that site is dedicated to linking to Your Blog or Website

          The number of sites linking to your webpage (whether it is a website or blog) significantly impacts your Google Page Rank.

          The more backlinks you have linking to your page, the better your Search Engine Optimization is, the higher your Google Page Rank will be, which ultimately leads to more traffic.


          What other free and paid actions and techniques do you use and would recommend for Search Engine Optimization?
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          Nicole Elmore
          Entrepreneur Coach & Business Strategist
          http://entrepreneurlead.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Kalednet
    Originally Posted by ichimoku View Post

    I have seen millions of threads and posts about how essential SEO is, but do we always HAVE to do it?
    You don't have to do it. It's one of the traffic techniques. You can do it, you can ignore it. If you have good value on your website, you'll get natural SEO traffic (others will link to you).

    Try to optimize 3-5 pages with long-tail keywords, and see. Test it on a small scale.

    Use other traffic techniques at the same time (SMM, word of mouth, networking on blogs & forums, buy ads... etc). Use G analytics to pinpoint the good traffic sources, and repeat them.

    Hope that helps.

    K.
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  • Profile picture of the author MovingAround
    Originally Posted by ichimoku View Post

    Hi Guys

    I have seen millions of threads and posts about how essential SEO is, but do we always HAVE to do it?

    For example I have a trading website that I have worked very hard on. Its is full of well written original articles, images and videos.

    I am constantly updating and adding new content.

    The question is, do I have to concentrate on SEO and article sites,backlink pyramids etc...

    I have a Facebook, Twitter and Youtube account all linked to the site, is this enough?

    I dont get enough traffic and I am starting to think if it is worth starting to do SEO everyday..

    Discuss...
    SEO is essential, the problem is that SEO has been given a bad name.

    SEO is simply a way to improve your visibility to the different search engine spiders. Google actually encourages you to do SEO as per its guidelines: correct titles, inside linking your content (no dead end pages), tell the spider what your website is about in the meta description and more. All of this allows the spider (in this case G's) to crawl your website efficiently so as to be able to offer the best visibility upon search results.

    The above is what these days is called on-site SEO. Off-site SEO, which refers to links and the stuff you mention (pyramids, link tiers etc), is important yes, but these days the off-site SEO that is important is stuff which you can only influence via writing QUALITY content. Why? Because up to a year ago, one could do plenty of mischievous methods to affect the search engine visibility via influencing backlinks in a manner contrary to Google's guideline. Fortunately, this doesn't work presently, at least to the extent that is used to. I love how my competitors disappeared from Google and now I am above the fold for page 1 for a hugely sought keyword (and making almost 5 digits per month from it) because all I did is play G's game (mind you, I started as a blackhatter and know how to fool the game, even to this day).

    So what works for off-site SEO? Getting contextual backlinks from high PR pages. What this means in layman's terms? Someone decides to link to you because he/she deems you as an authority and your linked page will be of use to his readers. This is what Google LOVES. Gone are the days off commenting on articles, forums and using private networks.

    My advice is to get your on-site SEO working good (follow G's guidelines) and to write absolutely awesome content that would be shared and respected by authors in the field. You can still do blackhat but Google is rolling mini updates every month which they don't make public and which are destroying websites which used SEO companies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
      Originally Posted by MovingAround View Post

      SEO is essential, the problem is that SEO has been given a bad name.
      This is just not true, at all.

      There are plenty of marketers, on this very forum, who do not focus on SEO at all, and have absolutely no problem getting as much traffic as they can handle. Specifically, the big time article marketers who get their content syndicated on a regular basis.
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      • Profile picture of the author MovingAround
        Originally Posted by Robert M Gouge View Post

        This is just not true, at all.

        There are plenty of marketers, on this very forum, who do not focus on SEO at all, and have absolutely no problem getting as much traffic as they can handle. Specifically, the big time article marketers who get their content syndicated on a regular basis.
        You are wrong.

        SEO is essential because it pays great dividends for the little effort invested. The OP is not happy with his traffic so optimizing his on-site SEO is imperative to maximizing his traffic from the SE. Google will crawl your website automatically unless you block it in robots and the OP hasn't mentioned anything about blocking the G spider. Thus, it is common sense that you want to have optimal on-site SEO to allow the spider to efficiently crawl your site and reap SE traffic.

        There are plenty of marketers? LOL and there are PLENTY more of people who are getting huge traffic from Google (including me) by merely fixing their on-site SEO. Why rely on others hopefully grabbing your syndicated content when you could simply put your on-site SEO correctly and get your SE traffic increased in orders of magnitude?
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
          Originally Posted by MovingAround View Post

          You are wrong.

          SEO is essential because it pays great dividends for the little effort invested. The OP is not happy with his traffic so optimizing his on-site SEO is imperative to maximizing his traffic from the SE.

          There are plenty of marketers? LOL and there are PLENTY more of people who are getting huge traffic from Google (including me) by merely fixing their on-site SEO. Why rely on others hopefully grabbing your syndicated content when you could simply put your on-site SEO correctly and get your SE traffic increased in orders of magnitude?
          Just because your business can't survive without Google, doesn't mean others don't get along just fine without Google.

          es·sen·tial/iˈsenSHəl/

          Noun: Something absolutely necessary.
          If SEO (read: Google) is absolutely necessary, explain to me how those who have strong relationships with content outlets and are getting their content syndicated regularly are making a fine living.

          From their own mouths, they have said that Google is not a main focal point of their traffic generation campaign.

          If what you said is true, then they shouldn't be making money, nor getting much traffic. Yet, they do.

          Should on-site/off-site SEO be a part of a balanced traffic campaign? Sure.

          Can you get plenty of traffic ignoring SEO? Yes. Which makes SEO not essential to one's success.
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          • Profile picture of the author MovingAround
            Originally Posted by Robert M Gouge View Post

            Just because your business can't survive without Google, doesn't mean others don't get along just fine without Google.



            If SEO (read: Google) is absolutely necessary, explain to me how those who have strong relationships with content outlets and are getting their content syndicated regularly are making a fine living.

            From their own mouths, they have said that Google is not a main focal point of their traffic generation campaign.

            If what you said is true, then they shouldn't be making money, nor getting much traffic. Yet, they do.

            Should on-site/off-site SEO be a part of a balanced traffic campaign? Sure.

            Can you get plenty of traffic ignoring SEO? Yes. Which makes SEO not essential to one's success.
            If you are going to split hairs with semantics as your only argument, then at least do it right.

            The OP didn't ask how essential it was to one's success. Simple. SEO is essential to get the SEs crawling your content, unless you intentionally block the spiders, which the author doesn't mention. If your SEO was non-existent, your website would do extremely poor to the point that you would not be visible on SERPs. Because he is not mentioning the blocking of the spiders, it is safe to assume that he welcomes the crawling of his site thus SEO is, indeed, ESSENTIAL for his website. I have a feeling you are confusing SEO with doing backlinks campaigns and the likes, when SEO also refers to correct labelling of your HTML tags for the spiders.

            About syndicated content, yes, some people are lucky to make a living out of that but there are many more who have a good % of their traffic coming from SEs and they incorporate that to their whole strategy.

            Of course, if you are blocking the SEs from crawling your website, and you are doing that on purpose, then, yes, SEO is not essential, but then tell me one person who does this out of those you keep talking about.

            SEO is essential, if only to tell the SE what your website is about. Essential to the success of a website? Well, the OP didn't ask that and my replies are not addressing that specifically.
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            • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
              Originally Posted by MovingAround View Post

              If you are going to split hairs with semantics as your only argument, then at least do it right.

              The OP didn't ask how essential it was to one's success. Simple. SEO is essential to get the SEs crawling your content, unless you intentionally block the spiders, which the author doesn't mention. If your SEO was non-existent, your website would do extremely poor to the point that you would not be visible on SERPs. Because he is not mentioning the blocking of the spiders, it is safe to assume that he welcomes the crawling of his site thus SEO is, indeed, ESSENTIAL for his website. I have a feeling you are confusing SEO with doing backlinks campaigns and the likes, when SEO refers to correct labelling of your HTML tags for the spiders.

              About syndicated content, yes, some people are lucky to make a living out of that but there are many more who have a good % of their traffic coming from SEs and they incorporate that to their whole strategy.

              Of course, if you are blocking the SEs from crawling your website, and you are doing that on purpose, then, yes, SEO is not essential, but then tell me one person who does this out of those you keep talking about.

              SEO is essential, if only to tell the SE what your website is about.
              We can agree to disagree.

              If you think SEO is absolutely necessary and you're not open to any other view points, then that's fine. That's your right. I'm not going to continue to debate this with you. I told myself I wasn't going to try and advise people to balance a traffic strategy away from Google because they often respond in the fashion that you do.

              Originally Posted by MovingAround View Post

              The OP didn't ask how essential it was to one's success.
              You do realize the title of the thread is, "Do I HAVE to do SEO to survive?" right?

              And the clear answer to that question is a resounding, "No!"

              If you do well with SEO traffic generation techniques, that's great. But, telling people they can't survive without it is just silly and misleading.
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              • Profile picture of the author MovingAround
                Originally Posted by Robert M Gouge View Post

                We can agree to disagree.

                If you think SEO is absolutely necessary and you're not open to any other view points, then that's fine. That's your right.



                You do realize the title of the thread is, "Do I HAVE to do SEO to survive?" right?

                And the clear answer to that question is a resounding, "No!"

                If you do well with SEO traffic generation techniques, that's great. But, telling people they can't survive without it is just silly and misleading.

                Do I have to do SEO to survive? The answer is YES. When you are surviving, you need to maximize all your options, and if you are not blocking the SE spiders on purpose, then at least give the SEs the option to efficiently crawl your website.

                Silly? The author clearly uses the pronoun "I" to refer to survive. He has done all his social media bookmarks and his traffic is still low, he is constantly writing content (which could possibly be of great quality) and he is not blocking the SE spiders as he hasn't stated so. He wants to survive because his traffic is low.

                Would not it then make sense to have optimal on-site SEO? How is that silly or misleading? He doesn't even talk about syndicating his content yet expresses an interest in SEO. Jesus, I am not telling him to go on a blackhat escapade and spam the heck out of blogs and forums, I am telling him that something as crucial as having the correct HTML tags can make a huge difference (in traffic). Is that not a great option to consider at times of survival?

                I don't have signatures advertising my services so I am not here to gather "thank yous", yet my initial reply has been acknowledged by the OP with a "thank you" because that's what he needed to hear at a time that he is trying to survive. I am going to go with the fact that fixing his SEO, whatever area it may be, is going to help heaps (which from experience, I know it will).
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                • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
                  I amended the post you quoted, but in case you missed it.

                  I'm not going to continue to debate this with you. I told myself I wasn't going to try and advise people to balance a traffic strategy away from Google because they often respond in the fashion that you do.
                  Originally Posted by MovingAround View Post

                  Jesus, I am not telling him to go on a blackhat escapade and spam the heck out of blogs and forums
                  It's fairly obvious that you're getting very heated over this discussion. I respect your opinions and how you choose to run your business and wish you continued success. But, to avoid this turning into a childish argument instead of a mature discussion, I'm done with this thread.

                  Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnpea
    Depending on what niche you're in, there's plenty of traffic to be had from Bing and Yahoo with relatively little SEO. Pre panda most of my traffic was from G, but now Bing is my main provider, and it converts better too!
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    SEO should never be your number one strategy to drive traffic to your website or blog. It can be and should be a small percentage of it. I see way too many people who are just too focused and too obsessed about this that they drive themselves up the wall.

    You should always focus on other advertising avenue like PPC, article marketing, video marketing, find other HIGH traffic websites in your niche and see if you can advertise on their site, blog commenting.
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  • Profile picture of the author XYZcontent
    SEO is absolutely not the most essential strategy you should pursue although it is quite a good one, especially if you are just starting out. In the long run though, high quality content beats SEO content.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Who is smarter? The person who writes SEO articles and uses traditional mass submission .. the person who uses a more targeted syndication approach or the person that just does a Google search for the keywords bringing the traffic ... contacts those on the top fold of those results and proposes a media buy?

    Don't know who is smarter but the latter has a lot more time to do other things .. like spend too much time on the WF lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    SEO is crapola, and it's boring too
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  • Profile picture of the author TomYevsikov
    Tell you the cold hard truth buddy? no you don't have to do seo.

    Why? I have got my blog to get over 7000+ visitors per month from SEARCH ENGINES using NO SEO only providing killer content.

    but, seo is still important and if you have some problems with seo(I do) you can save from your salary and hire a specialist to do the SEO work for you.

    does this help?
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  • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
    But the truth is, most people start there web searching at google.com
    How the hell are all those "random" people gonna gind you when they mostly just trust google to find what there looking for.

    I remember when we just had an internet connection in 1999? I actually was guessing URL names sometimes but that time is over, people are using search engines to find what there looking for, and that mostly the best way to actually find what you're looking for. So I think you almost "have to" do SEO to exist on the internet, at least if you care about getting traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author rightseosteps
    Traffic takes time to accumulate which is normal. Focus on mixing your link building with different types of links. Get more content links from guest posts and such. You need something to get you known without the annoying hassle of just building links. Rankings take time, not an overnight thing sadly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    No, SEO isn't needed. For some niches, it really isn't all that effective. And you can get traffic by buying it or doing JVs or getting affiliates to do SEO for you.

    On the other hand, knowing basic SEO is very beneficial, and it goes beyond just Google. Many sites have simple search engines, including forums, etc.

    Even free lance writers that submit articles to directories can benefit from basic SEO by including keywords publishers may use to find articles. For example, if you submit an article to ezinearticles.com in the hopes it will be republished, including words publishers may use in the ezinearticles site search can greatly increase your odds of having your article found.

    The same with sites like Twitter, where understanding how their search engine works and the use of #hashtags is another benefit of understanding basic SEO principles.

    Even the Warrior Forum has a basic, but well-used search function.

    While none of these secondary search ideas will bring loads of traffic over-night, over the course of your IM career, the impact can really add up.

    Get to know the SEO basics and get a grasp on what keywords will likely bring you the most traffic. For these secondary search resources you don't need to worry about competition. Instead, just focus on the main keywords that will bring the most eyeballs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    The only SEO I use is common sense. Well, technically, I do keyword research prior to writing articles and blog posts, but then I write for people first.

    Survive?

    Yes, I have been doing it the same way for 5 years (full time) and have never had a problem when Google changes their algorithm.

    The funny thing is that by writing for people first, I actually do better in the long run. When everybody seems to be whining about "bad old Google" making changes, I'm usualy quite happy because my sites get ranked even higher.

    If keywords are part of SEO, then I do some, but it will always be a "people first" proposition for me.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author masterjani
    seo is a must needed one, But the main thing is, how you are going to use it. If your main site is getting low traffic because it is not ranked due to hard competition then rank the youtube video and get referral traffic. You have to experiment more to get good traffic these days.
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  • Profile picture of the author denysapu
    You will not see quick result of your SEO. Doesn't mean have to leave it, but maximizing other methods to get instant-traffic may be needed.

    Maximize your Facebook, Twitter & YouTube account (and other social media approach) to get referral traffic that targeted.
    And other paid traffic will work and give the result faster.
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    Don't worry be happy!

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  • Profile picture of the author StewartJ
    Social media is a very solid way to start and if done right (with highly viral content) it can transition into a fully natural and unpaid SEO campaign. In other words, with SEO you want to secure links, etc .. - With a good piece of content shared through social media you'll get referral traffic + people will link to your site because they like it.

    The key with social media tho.. is developing relationships with people who have thousands upon thousands of followers or cutting deals with people who own fully developed/aged accounts. Posting a great piece of content in a brand-new account that has 5 followers and expecting the same results as posting on an acc which has 500K followers is just silly
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    You dont have to do SEO. So many other methods to get traffic for free. One example... Youtube.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
    Originally Posted by ichimoku View Post

    Do I HAVE to do SEO to survive
    Nope... as long as you have a steady supply of food and water, and a place to sleep at night, you'll survive!

    In all seriousness... there are MANY quality traffic sources that don't rely one iota on SEO, and you could easily "survive" on any one of them so long as you know what you're doing. Here are just a handful of them, off the top of my head...

    * JV's / affiliates
    * Your own mailing list
    * Other people's mailing list (paid solo ads, ad swaps, etc)
    * PPC / contextual ads
    * Media buys
    * Direct traffic from video sharing sites (ie YouTube)
    * Article syndication
    * Guest blogging
    * Social networks
    * Forum signatures & forum paid ads
    * Classified ads
    * Directory submissions (ie software directories, ebook directories, niche directories, etc)
    * Offline advertising (direct mail, flyers, radio, TV, etc)

    Pick one, and get survivin'!
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