by dardar
19 replies
Is there any basic rules on here for refunds.
I noticed,a few do not refund,even though they say they do and I am not talking a few bucks.
#refunds
  • Profile picture of the author petelta
    Originally Posted by dardar View Post

    Is there any basic rules on here for refunds.
    I noticed,a few do not refund,even though they say they do and I am not talking a few bucks.
    Refund policies are completely up to the business offering the service/product. The WF doesn't have any part of that. If it says no refund on the sales letter, I would expect a battle to get a refund.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by dardar View Post

    Is there any basic rules on here for refunds.
    I noticed,a few do not refund,even though they say they do and I am not talking a few bucks.
    If you find any WSO (Warrior Special Offer) or Classified Ads that has a stated refund policy and they do not honor it, use the report post icon (It's that red triangle underneath everyone's name when they start a thread) to alert the moderators.

    There are no basic rules for refunds here other than the rules that are already stated and in place and basic common business sense.

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  • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
    Banned
    In addition to the what the two guys above me have said, whether the provider offers a refund or not, it's his/her prerogative.

    Refund policies vary from one service to another. Check out if the provider's refund policies are fair. Judge their refund policies objectively. If their refund policy does not serve you best, move to the next provider.
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  • Sometimes I allow refunds sometimes I don't - To be honest stating I don't allow refunds works very well for me. This way people only buy if they are serious. Plus it discourages serial refunders and scammers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernest Simon
    And incase a person promised a refund and does not issue one you could chargeback on paypal. Because they have stated to offer one it could get them into trouble.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
      Originally Posted by lincher View Post

      And incase a person promised a refund and does not issue one you could chargeback on paypal. Because they have stated to offer one it could get them into trouble.
      I guess... if you feel like being vindictive and think it's no big deal to jeopardize their account when you may not fully understand the situation on their side. A chargeback should really be your last resort, just after writing congress and taking hostages.
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      • Profile picture of the author yourop
        I am new here

        But is it possible not to give refunds?
        If you deny refund requests, won't you end up with a lot of chargebacks and processing account suspended/blocked?


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        • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
          Originally Posted by yourop View Post


          But is it possible not to give refunds?
          Absolutely. You should have a written refund policy though. You can make it as simple as - "No Refunds"

          Originally Posted by yourop View Post


          If you deny refund requests, won't you end up with a lot of chargebacks and processing account suspended/blocked?
          If you offer refunds and deny them outside of your written policy, then yes, you open yourself up to all kinds of headaches.

          If you don't state a policy at all, you better believe people will assume you DO offer refunds and will be mighty upset when you say no.

          If you have, for example, a 30 day no-questions-asked refund policy, you are well within your rights to say no on day 31, just be polite and most people won't fuss when reminded of the rules. If they dispute with PayPal you have plenty of leg to stand on to win the dispute. They don't let people abuse your policy when you have one clearly stated.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ernest Simon
        Originally Posted by Michael D Forbes View Post

        I guess... if you feel like being vindictive and think it's no big deal to jeopardize their account when you may not fully understand the situation on their side.
        Yeah. You should give at least 48 hours for a person to reply and only dispute if he is really scamming people by refusing to refund them. For example, he could have an electricity cut for a day or so.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Well, if the refund rates is high someone will definitely complain and that will be your chance to nail him or her here.

    That is why PayPal is very interesting, you can raise a dispute but this is also subject to how often the account receive unresolved dispute.

    I think the best thing to do is to check out reviews of the person and refund policy before proceeding.

    WF can only act when lots of people complain or if there is a real reason and evidence or outright cheating.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Have a policy in place! Follow the policy! Don't be dishonest, unethical or break laws!
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    If someone on this forum is advertising a refund policy that they are not sticking to in reality then yes, you should report that WSO to the moderators or help desk and let them know.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      As has been mentioned: The seller decides their refund policy, if any. They are not required to offer a guarantee, and if they don't, don't ask us to do anything about it.

      If no policy is stated, you should assume there are no refunds offered. (Note: I'm talking about how we handle things here, not what is required based on local laws. It's up to the seller to comply with those.)

      If a seller fails to honor a posted refund policy, the most we can do is ban them until they honor it. We don't handle any of the money in a transaction between buyers and sellers, and we have no ability to force anything.

      A few words to the wise...

      Be adult about it. Set realistic expectations, and don't buy something casually, thinking, "I'll get a refund if this isn't something magical." That's a crappy way to treat a seller. It's also an irresponsible way to think about your own business.

      If you buy that way, it's a sign of a bigger problem. One that pretty much guarantees you will never succeed at making money online.

      Read the sales copy. Don't assume there's anything more to the product than what is stated. If you already know the basics of a topic, and there isn't something more advanced promised, don't buy it and then whine about it being "rehashed crap." If the product delivers what was promised, you have very little basis for asking for a refund.

      If you feel a refund is appropriate, contact the seller through their recommended channel for customer service first. Be civil. Swearing, screaming, and making threats are not an effective way to get people to cooperate.

      If they don't respond within 2-3 business days, ask for the refund in the sales thread. Be sure to mention that you already used their recommended channel. Remain civil.

      If you get no response, you need to make a choice. Is it worth filing a dispute with Paypal, for example? Is there a plausible reason the seller might be slow in responding? Does this warrant pushing the matter?

      If you decide to file a dispute with Paypal, and the seller tells you that they won't issue the refund until you close the dispute, do not close the dispute.

      It's uncommon, but we've had a few people who pulled that. Once the dispute was closed, they simply stopped communicating with the customer, and eventually had to be banned for failure to honor their posted policies. Doesn't get you your money back.

      If they don't respond to a Paypal dispute within 3 business days, escalate to a claim.

      Just be aware that Paypal will side with the seller in most cases involving digital goods or service offers.

      Basically, shop smart and don't bet money you can't afford to lose.

      And to the sellers: Don't test us on this. The mods don't care how much money you spend on advertising. Ain't our money, and it ain't relevant to the rules. This is not the issue to play around with.

      Don't put a "100% Satisfaction Guaranteed" graphic on your buy button and leave out a written guarantee and think that gives you an out. If we see that button we will treat it as a 60-day, no questions asked guarantee if you use Paypal, and whatever the maximum is with whatever other payment processor you might choose.

      That phrase has very clear meanings to the potential customer. Don't try to weasel around it. If you don't want to offer a guarantee, just don't use that phrase. Easy enough.

      If you post a refund policy, including "There are no refunds," it must be the same size as the predominant text in the ad. Putting stuff in small, grey fonts at the bottom isn't going to work in your favor.

      If someone asks for a refund and you swear at them and call them a moron, don't ask us to delete the post when they quote you on it. That is part of the customer experience and, assuming you actually said it, a legitimate thing for them to comment on.

      Sorry, guys, but that had to be said.

      If someone asks for a refund in the thread, we will not delete that post until after the refund has been sent (if one is owed), and we won't delete it at all if it includes a real review. ("This sucks and you're an idiot" is not a review.)

      Asking for a refund does NOT mean the person can't post their review of the product. If it did, that would leave a simple way to game the system and make it look like everything was sunshine and puppies.

      If you tell us someone didn't buy, in an attempt to get a negative post deleted, and we get proof they did buy... you can expect a ban.

      That dog won't hunt.

      Also, you are required to have at least one channel for communicating with customers outside this forum. It MUST be mentioned either in the original ad, or in the email they get when they order. Since emails get lost often enough, it's probably good to post it in the ad, too.

      Keep in mind that the forum could be down, the customer may not have enough posts to send a PM, etc.

      Skype, by itself, is not sufficient as a sole support system unless you state that specifically in the ad. People should not have to install special software to communicate with you about issues.

      Back to the customers: You get, as a rule, ONE post to review the product. You may edit that if things change, and you may add an additional post in very unusual circumstances. You may NOT continue on, post after post, with a threadjacking rant. If you try and are reported, all but the first post on the product will be deleted, and you may receive a ban for the abuse.

      We don't care if that first post is positive or negative, short or long, but it must be focused on the product or service. Personally bashing the seller isn't allowed. That's not what you were buying.

      The sales sections are just that. They are NOT discussion sections. You do not have any "right to free speech" in someone else's paid ad, beyond the right of posting a review. Sellers agree to that much when they buy the ad space.


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      • Profile picture of the author dardar
        Thank you for that,will keep that at hand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Paul,

    I know Allen isn't a big fan of adding more stickies, but I would love to see what you just posted as a sticky in the WSO forum, Warriors-For-Hire, and the Classified Ads subforums (or added to the rules as an edit). I realize a lot of people will miss it, but it would be cool to be able to link to it and send people there.

    There's a lot of very good and pertinent information in the post you just made, a couple of items that I didn't even think about (and I've been here for a long time).

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Rod,

      I may just start editing this stuff into individual posts on my WF blog, and let people point to those when they're relevant. I don't use that for anything commercial anyway, so it shouldn't be a conflict of interest.


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  • Profile picture of the author tristatemedia
    i always go with filing a dispute with paypal after many attempts to reach seller. that always works. if i buy through jvzoo.com
    when ever i ask for refund, i get it within hours.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't offer a refund on my sales pages. That doesn't mean that I won't give one if the reason is compelling. An example ... a recent customer saw the Dime Sale and wanted to get the product fast before it went up without really reading the sales page and looking at the sites I was offering ... after buying realized that they already had most of the sites. I refunded.

    Someone who files a Paypal dispute within minutes of buying my products, which you actually see before buying and know exactly what you are getting, doesn't get one. I fight all disputes and win most of them.

    But not having a refund policy on my sales pages gives me the option of choosing who and for what reasons I will give one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Corey Geer
    Originally Posted by dardar View Post

    Is there any basic rules on here for refunds.
    I noticed,a few do not refund,even though they say they do and I am not talking a few bucks.
    Honestly, I'm against refunds.

    It's not because I don't believe in a service or whatever I'm selling, it's because there are a lot of cheap people out there who will take your product or service and then request a refund out of being a cheap-ass.

    However, you're talking about scumbags who are looking to make a quick buck off of you more than likely. It comes down to Integrity when it's with another forum member. You have to take up any issues you have directly with that member and if you can prove that the user on here provided you a service or product, present all the factual information and proof you have to the mods.

    The least you can do is get him banned from selling to others and ripping them off as well. I'm afraid the only thing you can do if you paid via PayPal for something is to cancel through your bank, not dispute it with PayPal.

    PayPal won't help you on a virtual item dispute. They'll tell you "tough luck, we don't cover virtual items", but if you cancel through your bank, there's nothing PayPal can do. They'll have to get the money back from the seller.

    But not having a refund policy on my sales pages gives me the option of choosing who and for what reasons I will give one.
    Also, touching on base with what Sbucciarel said, your pricing will also determine your customer base. I struggled to realize this simple concept for quite some time and kept wondering why I was running into so many low down dirt bags despite what I was doing being dirt cheap. *smacks self in head*

    DUH

    Offering a refund basically shows people "oh well, if it doesn't make me money, I can just get it back." Not offering a refund doesn't necessarily say, "oh this guy's a scammer" but it sure will cut down on some of those people. I'm sorry about your situation but sometimes if you research a member's reputation before hand or the product name before hand, you'll find some interesting things about them as well.
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