76 replies
If you have anxiously dropped in, then you guessed it right!

Sounds interesting right?

Oh, relax! I am referring to your list! Yes that's right. Only your list. Nothing else.

Now that I have your attention, let's focus on the topic at hand...

How big is your email list in total?


So many people, including me, have made the mistake of not building a list from the beginning. Now days, I tell all those that are new to internet marketing that they have to start with a list and then everything else will fall into place.

With a decent size list, you don't have to worry about what Google has in plan next to weed out your sites or how you are going to make your next sale.

Once you establish a good list, you can use it over and over again. These people are your customers. They know you, and they will buy from you.

I could go on forever about list building, but if you don't have a list, start today. Make this thread as a motivation for you to get started. There are many tools available on this forum that could get you started right away. Setup a squeeze page and offer something for free. Get that list going.

So to get you started, I have several lists since I only started a year ago to build a list. I have been testing them, segregating them into different lists, etc. So the total number of people is around 15K. Yes it is not that big but enough to make me some money. Once again I have made the mistake of not building my list from the beginning and also internet marketing was just a hobby for me until now. Also I have several membership sites and in some sites I have over 25K members. I am beginning to utilize those sites because they could also act just like a list. I am starting to send them ezines.

So how big is yours?

I meant your list!
#big #email list #email marketing #list #list building
  • Profile picture of the author Abul-Hussain
    It's not the size that matters, it's the responsiveness ;-)

    Abul
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Ken Russell
    Size matters. Anyone that tells you different has a small list.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Its not the size of the ship but the motion of the ocean
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    • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
      Originally Posted by Nio93 View Post

      Size matters. Anyone that tells you different has a small list.
      A self proclaimed IM guru told you so?

      Anyway, I reckon most people go with the flow and imagine that a bigger list means more money. Just to give you an example, if you have a list of 10,000 but just 20% open rates (which is by many a very good open rate! ) you actually have a list of 2,000.

      Using the same logic, if another person has a list of 5,000 (half as the other person) but with an open rate of 80%, he has a list of 4,000 subscribers, which means he has the double of subscribers as the first person, even if, at a first glance, he has half of the number of subscribers.

      But that's just me, perhaps IM gurus can step in and enlighten us all.

      And that's not all. It also matters how targeted the subscribers are, if you got them to subscribe via an squeeze page, pop-ups or just a plain landing page with an opt in box, what are you sending them, if you set and meet their expectations, how they perceive you, etc.

      I think the question "How big is your list?" is too general, and the answers won't be that relevant. (But maybe I'm wrong, you know?)
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      • Profile picture of the author Ed Micah
        Whether size does or not matter, I think the open rate (that is the conversion rate) is way beyond the importance of the size.

        If you had a list of size of 100,000 but with a poor responsiveness of only 1% open rate, and 10% ctr, you really only have 100 subscribers on your list.

        Whereas if you had a list of size of 50,000 but with high responsiveness, and good relationship, with 10% open rate, and 20% ctr -- this way you have a list of 1000 subscribers on your list.

        I know I have exaggerated the stats, but you get the point...

        It is really important to build your reputation as an authority, you really want to create something useful and helpful, instead of crappy spammy offers.
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      • Profile picture of the author brentb
        Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

        A self proclaimed IM guru told you so?

        Anyway, I reckon most people go with the flow and imagine that a bigger list means more money. Just to give you an example, if you have a list of 10,000 but just 20% open rates (which is by many a very good open rate! ) you actually have a list of 2,000.

        Using the same logic, if another person has a list of 5,000 (half as the other person) but with an open rate of 80%, he has a list of 4,000 subscribers, which means he has the double of subscribers as the first person, even if, at a first glance, he has half of the number of subscribers.

        But that's just me, perhaps IM gurus can step in and enlighten us all.
        Open rates don't work like that. They do on ONE particular email but when you email out your second email, maybe 500 who opened the first do but a set of 1500 different people open the second. So yes open rates are important but id much rather have a substantially larger list than a few percent higher open. 80% is ridiculous open rates, not saying its impossible however its not reasonable for most people to even consider under any circumstances.
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

        A self proclaimed IM guru told you so?

        Anyway, I reckon most people go with the flow and imagine that a bigger list means more money. Just to give you an example, if you have a list of 10,000 but just 20% open rates (which is by many a very good open rate! ) you actually have a list of 2,000.

        Using the same logic, if another person has a list of 5,000 (half as the other person) but with an open rate of 80%, he has a list of 4,000 subscribers, which means he has the double of subscribers as the first person, even if, at a first glance, he has half of the number of subscribers.
        Well, if we're going to play that game, I'd rather have a list with a 10% open rate that makes me a million dollars instead of a list with an 80% open rate that makes me a hundred thousand dollars. See how that works?
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      • Profile picture of the author FirstSocialApps
        Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

        Anyway, I reckon most people go with the flow and imagine that a bigger list means more money. Just to give you an example, if you have a list of 10,000 but just 20% open rates (which is by many a very good open rate! ) you actually have a list of 2,000.

        Using the same logic, if another person has a list of 5,000 (half as the other person) but with an open rate of 80%, he has a list of 4,000 subscribers, which means he has the double of subscribers as the first person, even if, at a first glance, he has half of the number of subscribers.
        Your logic is sound and your point is well put. However: this does not take into account the fact that the people who open your messages may not always be the same people.
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    • Profile picture of the author Abul-Hussain
      Originally Posted by Nio93 View Post

      Size matters. Anyone that tells you different has a small list.
      That statement cannot be further from the truth! If you have a responsive list of 100 buyers, it can be more profitable than a list 1000 freebie seekers!

      Abul
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    • Profile picture of the author Corey Geer
      Originally Posted by Nio93 View Post

      Size matters. Anyone that tells you different has a small list.
      No, size is irrelevant. We could do a split test.

      You can have a list of 100,000 random people who have no earthly business being on that list and never signed up, but they're there anyways. Spam if you will.

      My list only has 500 people.

      Who do you think would generate more sales with an e-mail campaign? The 500 would outshine the 100,000 by a landslide. I'd be surprised if you made any sales at all honestly, maybe 1 or 2?

      People, you guys focus WAY too much on the size of the list. It's the quality of the list that matters. Your list should have targeted leads only and then there's a long list of other stuff that's relevant to your conversion such as your click through percent, how good your sales copy is, etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Hugall
        Your list is only as good as your targeting. 1,000,000 dog lovers with an IM offer and your list sucks. Your whole business sucks without good targeting. So I have a list of about 1000 buyers personally. I am no king and I have no problem with how little it is. It grows everyday and that is all that matters. Kind of reminds me of high school.
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      • Profile picture of the author Coby
        Originally Posted by Corey Geer View Post

        No, size is irrelevant. We could do a split test.

        You can have a list of 100,000 random people who have no earthly business being on that list and never signed up, but they're there anyways. Spam if you will.

        My list only has 500 people.

        Who do you think would generate more sales with an e-mail campaign? The 500 would outshine the 100,000 by a landslide. I'd be surprised if you made any sales at all honestly, maybe 1 or 2?

        People, you guys focus WAY too much on the size of the list. It's the quality of the list that matters. Your list should have targeted leads only and then there's a long list of other stuff that's relevant to your conversion such as your click through percent, how good your sales copy is, etc.
        I don't have 100K - only about 57K - but I'll take that split test and see which makes more sales...

        I can deliver more clicks than you have subscribers... still want to bet on that 500 subscriber list?

        Food for thought

        Here's the results of a few emails to only 1,000 of them



        The good thing about having a large list is I can continue to send to the unopens to increase my clicks and sales... If you only have 500 on the list - you can't send to the unopens but a few times then you are out of subscribers...
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    It's not the size that counts - it's what you do with it
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    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author rrm
      Originally Posted by mikelmraz View Post

      7 inches ...

      What up, tiny?
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      It's not enough to want it... you have to want it enough.

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  • Profile picture of the author zannix
    recently, it's been swimming in cold waters...
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    All you can do is all you can do - Art Williams
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Zero right now, but in 8 years it has like probably 3,000,000 subscribers. Lololol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    If you're using email marketing to show your girlfriend how to make money online, trust me... the first question she's gonna ask regarding your list is... "so how big is it?".
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      If you're using email marketing to show your girlfriend how to make money online, trust me... the first question she's gonna ask regarding your list is... "so how big is it?".
      Only cos she's clueless.

      I've had lists of less than 1000 that have made more money than lists of over 1,000,000

      It's definitely not a matter of size.

      Of course, anyone who's shooting at the bottom of the barrel and trying to squeeze any old person onto their list will certainly need high numbers to stand a chance of making decent money, so the worse your list building is - the higher numbers you need compared to a targeted list.
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      nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Curtis
    I realize that many of these answers are tongue-in-cheek. However, I think some people are missing the essential points.

    It is not just "size matters." And it is not just "how responsive is your list."

    Taken to these extremes it all becomes nonsense. Sure, you could have a list that is Avagadro's number of subscribers ( 6.0221--1023) and never make a dime.

    Or you could have one subscriber (like the girl selling $500 pencils) and if that subscriber is responsive enough you'll make a fortune.

    But allowing for at least a bit of good sense, the discussion makes sense only if we consider that all factors play a part, whether size or responsiveness or substance of the offer.

    Then when discussing a single aspect of the list, consider it with all other things remaining equal. And when you do that you see that size does become quite relevant.

    In other words, all things remaining equal, a larger list is better and if this is your business model then concentrating early on building a list is a wise decision.
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    • Profile picture of the author GuruGuna
      Thank you. Well said.

      I was wondering how to respond to all the responses.

      My main point of this discussion was to state how important a list.

      Originally Posted by Dan Curtis View Post

      I realize that many of these answers are tongue-in-cheek. However, I think some people are missing the essential points.

      It is not just "size matters." And it is not just "how responsive is your list."

      Taken to these extremes it all becomes nonsense. Sure, you could have a list that is Avagadro's number of subscribers ( 6.0221--1023) and never make a dime.

      Or you could have one subscriber (like the girl selling $500 pencils) and if that subscriber is responsive enough you'll make a fortune.

      But allowing for at least a bit of good sense, the discussion makes sense only if we consider that all factors play a part, whether size or responsiveness or substance of the offer.

      Then when discussing a single aspect of the list, consider it with all other things remaining equal. And when you do that you see that size does become quite relevant.

      In other words, all things remaining equal, a larger list is better and if this is your business model then concentrating early on building a list is a wise decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
    I've had over 30,000 customers and have over 70,000 free registered users at the various sites I run. I have no e-mail lists. I do not market other products to my users or my previous customers. The only time I e-mail users are transactional (order confirmations, receipts, etc) and to offer help to new users that have signed up but haven't used whatever they signed up for. Once.

    My point is: you don't have to be a quasi-spammer to run a business online or off. Yet that's the advice being proffered here.

    You don't operate a business? Not a problem, they say. Just buy this squeeze page template, buy this infoproduct to give away, and get those e-mails. You have no reason to collect these e-mails? Not a problem, here's an affiliate program, just send some spam about it to your list and watch the commissions roll in! The gullible ones that bought? Add 'em to a "buyers list" and rent it out! Now you're a real Internet Marketer! That's a whole step above slick-haired used car salesman, but sounds a lot less sleazy when you tell your relatives what you're doing.

    I could go on forever about list building, but if you don't have a list, start today. Make this thread as a motivation for you to get started. There are many tools available on this forum that could get you started right away. Setup a squeeze page and offer something for free. Get that list going.
    Encouraging "list building" before "business building" just encourages spam. It makes the world worse. Don't do it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Ken Russell
      Calm down guys, all I said was size matters. I never said it was the only thing that mattered
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    • Profile picture of the author brentb
      Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

      I've had over 30,000 customers and have over 70,000 free registered users at the various sites I run. I have no e-mail lists. I do not market other products to my users or my previous customers. The only time I e-mail users are transactional (order confirmations, receipts, etc) and to offer help to new users that have signed up but haven't used whatever they signed up for. Once.

      You don't have to be a quasi-spammer to run a business online or off. We all know that's what posts like these are about. Take a bunch of people who operate no business, teach them that to make some extra money all they have to do is "build lists". Then once they have these lists, but still don't operate any actual business, the only thing to do with those lists is to send out affiliate links or "swap" the rights to send out the same ads with others. There's even a whole forum full of people willing to sell them the squeeze pages to get the e-mails, and the marketing copy to spam the affiliate links with!

      Encouraging "list building" before "business building" just encourages spam. It makes the world worse. Don't do it.
      You are missing out on mucho bucks! Everyone here is trying to make money in IM so this is terrible advice since it will only help people make less money.

      If you have a list of 100k and you are not using it, its like buying a pizza oven and only serving salad at your restaurant. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
        Originally Posted by brentb View Post

        You are missing out on mucho bucks! Everyone here is trying to make money in IM so this is terrible advice since it will only help people make less money.

        If you have a list of 100k and you are not using it, its like buying a pizza oven and only serving salad at your restaurant. :p
        Man, how much money is Wal-Mart losing out on?? They have hundreds of millions of people walk through the door, and they don't ask a single one of them for their e-mail! If only they collected e-mails and sent them bizopp affiliate offers, they'd actually be profitable!

        Originally Posted by brentb View Post

        Everyone here is trying to make money in IM
        Let's steer them down a path of actual business building instead of joining the muck at the bottom of the spam&scam mud pile. There are lots of things you could tell people that would make them more money, but you wouldn't, because they're illegal or immoral. So should taking advantage of people looking to earn more money in a down economy by promising them the world for their e-mail address, then using it to spam them with crappy affiliate bizopps that'll never actually help their situation.
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        • Profile picture of the author brentb
          Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

          Man, how much money is Wal-Mart losing out on?? They have hundreds of millions of people walk through the door, and they don't ask a single one of them for their e-mail! If only they collected e-mails and sent them bizopp affiliate offers, they'd actually be profitable!
          That's different, if they asked for everyones email and then never did anything with it then they would be missing out. You are already going through the trouble to get people to register, why not just let them in anonymously without log in so you won't have their email? More people would use your sites based off the assumption the easier it is to use, the more people will use it.

          Also, I think your experiences with email marketing are misleading, who emails out only bizopp offers? Well I am sure people do on this board but most people who are making money are emailing out targeted offers and probably only a small percentage of these people are in the bizopp niche.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
            Originally Posted by brentb View Post

            You are already going through the trouble to get people to register, why not just let them in anonymously without log in so you won't have their email? More people would use your sites based off the assumption the easier it is to use, the more people will use it.
            Ehrm, registration is for authentication, not marketing. Signing up for something is not the same as requesting e-mail ads.

            Would more people use online banking if they could be let in anonymously and just view anyone's bank account? No. That's why you must have an account, and they'll need an e-mail address too for things like password resets and customer service. Your bank is not going to send you bizopp ads... or spam for Capital One Credit Cards, Native American Payday Loans, or any other affiliate "targeted offers".
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            • Profile picture of the author brentb
              Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

              Your bank is not going to send you bizopp ads... or spam for Capital One Credit Cards, Native American Payday Loans, or any other affiliate "targeted offers".
              What about this (example around a tracking platform since you have one in your sig):

              "Thanks for using my zyx service! I recently spoke to one of my users who informed me that they use abc product with zyx service! What a great idea! You can input the subID variable from abc directly into zyx just like this:

              example here

              Check out abc by clicking here, I think it will work well for you if you have a problem with 123."

              ^^^^ VERY different from sending random credit card offers and bizopp like you think we all do.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
                Originally Posted by brentb View Post

                What about:

                "Thanks for using my zyx service! I recently spoke to one of my users who informed me that they use abc product with zyx service! What a great idea! You can input the subID variable from abc directly into zyx just like this:

                example here

                Check out abc by clicking here, I think it will work well for you if you have a problem with 123."

                ^^^^ VERY different from sending random credit card offers and bizopp like you think we all do.
                Spam in the guise of advice. Unless you sent that out without any affiliate link or other kickback, it's even more scummy than an ad that looks like an ad. I'm more than happy to offer that kind of advice to my customers when appropriate, but only because I want to help them, not because I'm advertising to them. I wouldn't make such a recommendation using a referral link. A savvy customer will see that for what it is -- spam -- while the one I helped without a kickback will want to recommend my product to others because of the great personal service he gets.

                Don't forget your FTC-mandated relationship disclosures. A federal government agency had to mandate such things because of these scummy practices.
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                • Profile picture of the author brentb
                  So sending it out with an aff link makes it spam but without the aff link its not? Please read CANSPAM and the FCC requirements, because that is perfectly legit. If they opted in (which could be when they registered if you say by registering you are opting in) then its not spam, and you can satisfy the FCC in your privacy policy and t&c especially if they agreed by registering.

                  I also don't suggest making up that story but I know from talking with my customers they tell me stuff like that. Also, you could always say instead "I found this cool service that works great with zyx!" No need to lie.

                  It seems you are basically saying it is impossible to make money email marketing unless you are scum?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
                    Originally Posted by brentb View Post

                    So sending it out with an aff link makes it spam but without the aff link its not? Please read CANSPAM and the FCC requirements, because that is perfectly legit.
                    I'm talking about morals, not laws. The way you treat people, especially people you have a relationship with. If you can't see the difference between those situations, this conversation isn't going to change that, so that's the last I'll say.

                    Originally Posted by brentb

                    It seems your a basically saying it is impossible to make money email marketing unless you are scum?
                    No, there are lots of ways to use e-mail as part of a greater marketing strategy. You can build a pre-launch list of people that asked to hear when your product or service opens for business, and tell them when it does. You can e-mail new users with tips to get the most out of your product, or reminders about actions they need to take, assuming they opted in at registration. You can ask customers if they want to hear about sales, and send them mails when they happen.

                    All of that is great -- people voluntarily establish these relationships and get exactly what they asked for without any trickery involved. And you'll notice that all of it involves there being some business these people have a relationship with.

                    None of the legitimate uses involve marketing other peoples' products (except as clearly marked ads within a content newsletter). That's just legalized spam. Yet that's exclusively what's peddled to newbies here. They're told they don't need a business, they don't even need a website, just a "squeeze page". What a slimy name. It should make anyone without an MBA shiver. Then once they use this "squeeze page" to get e-mails, having no actual relationship with these people other than "I enticed them to sign up for a nebulous 'list' with some promises I can't myself fulfill", the only thing to do with it is to spam them with 'offers'.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Ali Rangwala
                      Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

                      I'm talking about morals, not laws. The way you treat people, especially people you have a relationship with. If you can't see the difference between those situations, this conversation isn't going to change that, so that's the last I'll say.

                      No, there are lots of ways to use e-mail as part of a greater marketing strategy. E-mail is an especially important part of customer lifecycle marketing. You can build a pre-launch list of people that asked to hear when your product or service opens for business, and tell them when it does. You can e-mail new users with tips to get the most out of your product, or reminders about actions they need to take, assuming they opted in at registration. You can ask customers if they want to hear about sales, and send them mails when they happen. All of that is great -- people voluntarily establish these relationships and get exactly what they asked for without any trickery involved.

                      None of the legitimate uses involve marketing other peoples' products (except as clearly marked ads within a content newsletter). That's just legalized spam. Yet that's exclusively what's peddled here.
                      I couldn't agree more Dan. I thought I was the only one who thought this way! It's actually one of the main reasons WSO buyers don't get anywhere - there might be some value in what they learn in the WSO they buy today, but they're being confused by the dude they bought it from tomorrow coz he got his hands on their email address.
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        • Profile picture of the author Coby
          Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

          Man, how much money is Wal-Mart losing out on?? They have hundreds of millions of people walk through the door, and they don't ask a single one of them for their e-mail! If only they collected e-mails and sent them bizopp affiliate offers, they'd actually be profitable!
          Ummm, I get emails from Wal-Mart all the time...

          If you buy from their Website - they capture your email without even asking and just like Amazon does they will send you emails at least 3-4 times a week.

          I can't believe you have 100K registered users and are telling people it's a bad idea to mail them... That doesn't make any sense at all! That's like buying a 4x4 truck and using it as a paperweight...

          Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

          Ehrm, registration is for authentication, not marketing. Signing up for something is not the same as requesting e-mail ads.

          Would more people use online banking if they could be let in anonymously and just view anyone's bank account? No. That's why you must have an account, and they'll need an e-mail address too for things like password resets and customer service. Your bank is not going to send you bizopp ads... or spam for Capital One Credit Cards, Native American Payday Loans, or any other affiliate "targeted offers".
          My bank sends me emails all the time for stuff like loans, payroll services, business credit cards etc. - Your examples are from a land of fairy tales and not real world.

          Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

          Spam in the guise of advice. Unless you sent that out without any affiliate link or other kickback, it's even more scummy than an ad that looks like an ad. I'm more than happy to offer that kind of advice to my customers when appropriate, but only because I want to help them, not because I'm advertising to them. I wouldn't make such a recommendation using a referral link. A savvy customer will see that for what it is -- spam -- while the one I helped without a kickback will want to recommend my product to others because of the great personal service he gets.

          Don't forget your FTC-mandated relationship disclosures. A federal government agency had to mandate such things because of these scummy practices.
          Send with no referral link? So you often give out free advice? This is the worse advice I've ever heard. That makes no business sense at all!

          I guess you run a "non-profit" organization? Or you have no understanding of what "spam" is...

          Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

          I'm talking about morals, not laws. The way you treat people, especially people you have a relationship with. If you can't see the difference between those situations, this conversation isn't going to change that, so that's the last I'll say.
          How do we gain a relationship with them if we never email them? lol
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    • Profile picture of the author GuruGuna
      I appreciate your contribution to this thread but please don't call me a spammer or anyone else a spammer just because they have a list. Just because you do business one way does not mean that is the only legit way of doing business.

      People sign up to a list because they choose to. They want to be on my list because they know I provide value to them. They all have a choice to unsubscribe at any time they find that I am spamming them or for whatever reason.

      Your way of doing business is different but please don't criticize others. I also own sites where I have members, thousands more than my lists, and trust me I don't spam them with products because the purpose of those sites are different.






      Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

      I've had over 30,000 customers and have over 70,000 free registered users at the various sites I run. I have no e-mail lists. I do not market other products to my users or my previous customers. The only time I e-mail users are transactional (order confirmations, receipts, etc) and to offer help to new users that have signed up but haven't used whatever they signed up for. Once.

      My point is: you don't have to be a quasi-spammer to run a business online or off. Yet that's the advice being proffered here.

      You don't operate a business? Not a problem, they say. Just buy this squeeze page template, buy this infoproduct to give away, and get those e-mails. You have no reason to collect these e-mails? Not a problem, here's an affiliate program, just send some spam about it to your list and watch the commissions roll in! The gullible ones that bought? Add 'em to a "buyers list" and rent it out! Now you're a real Internet Marketer! That's a whole step above slick-haired used car salesman, but sounds a lot less sleazy when you tell your relatives what you're doing.



      Encouraging "list building" before "business building" just encourages spam. It makes the world worse. Don't do it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        The value of a list is in how many people are willing to invest in you as a financial asset.

        When you establish yourself as a financial asset, your list becomes your financial asset.


        Daniel
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      • Profile picture of the author Abul-Hussain
        Originally Posted by GuruGuna View Post

        I appreciate your contribution to this thread but please don't call me a spammer or anyone else a spammer just because they have a list. Just because you do business one way does not mean that is the only legit way of doing business.

        People sign up to a list because they choose to. They want to be on my list because they know I provide value to them. They all have a choice to unsubscribe at any time they find that I am spamming them or for whatever reason.

        Your way of doing business is different but please don't criticize others. I also own sites where I have members, thousands more than my lists, and trust me I don't spam them with products because the purpose of those sites are different.
        Hey, I don't think Dan meant any harm.

        I think what he was trying to say is that a lot of the products in the IM market preach building a list and then effectively shooting off affiliate ads to them for income.

        What Dan was saying is that you should focus more on building a business and move your focus from just building a list to monetize. There are too many products on the market selling squeeze pages and PLR stuff as lead magnets, but very few [if any] that help you to build a long-term business.

        Building a business entails providing value to your subscribers, whether through articles, case studies or simply sharing interesting niche-related stories. There are many more uses of your list than just selling them other peoples stuff.

        He may have been slightly heavy with his criticism though.

        Just my 2 cents

        Abul
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        Author | Speaker | Digital Marketing Coach

        I help ordinary people achieve extraordinary results online. Get in touch to see how we can help you build a 6 figure business.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Lee
    Maybe the better question is to ask "How big is the bank account?" A list of 10 million won't add to the bottom line if you can't get them to buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author brentb
    I don't think its wrong to email people who opt in and I would think most people on here would agree. But you should do whatever makes you happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Originally Posted by GuruGuna View Post

    So how big is yours?
    I know a few people in here say that SIZE MATTERS

    nope incorrect.

    I have lists in the hundreds of thousands, that does not get as good of response of something say in the 60k range.

    Its the repore and relationship you have with your list, that is what counts.

    I have a client who has only 1100 on his list, however he makes enough off them to live well. Why? he emails them, give videos, calls them, bends over backwards for them. ANd helps them alot. They have a certain trust with him that is second to none. That is where the killer results will come from.

    I know a marketer that has 700,000 people on his list, but he hardly makes sales, cause he made the mistake to spam them from day one. Best advice I could give to him was start again LOL.
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    • Profile picture of the author JTzor
      Originally Posted by celente View Post

      I know a few people in here say that SIZE MATTERS

      nope incorrect.

      I have lists in the hundreds of thousands, that does not get as good of response of something say in the 60k range.

      Its the repore and relationship you have with your list, that is what counts.

      I have a client who has only 1100 on his list, however he makes enough off them to live well. Why? he emails them, give videos, calls them, bends over backwards for them. ANd helps them alot. They have a certain trust with him that is second to none. That is where the killer results will come from.

      I know a marketer that has 700,000 people on his list, but he hardly makes sales, cause he made the mistake to spam them from day one. Best advice I could give to him was start again LOL.

      Just a point of clarification, does he bend over backwards for them on video, and if so can I get on this list so I can see such a thing as it sounds astoundingly painful, but fun to watch none the less.
      Signature
      "The Path to success is not a straight line but a jagged, broken road which we must piece together & make our own."

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  • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
    I've never had any complaints.
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    "The scientific theory I like best is that the rings of Saturn are composed entirely of lost airline luggage." - Mark Russell
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheila Ross
    Size does not always matter because if your list is irrelevant and non targeted, you are not going to make any money with it. If your list is targeted, you will be able to earn lot of money with it. My one is yet to be built.
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  • Profile picture of the author bradmcleod
    1,734 on my email list......Making six figures comfortably online.

    Responsiveness and clicks to sales are ALL that matters.

    Anyone tell you different? Tell them to show you the numbers
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    I see it this way.

    You can have a list of 100,000 subscribers. If no one is reading your emails because you have not built a relationship, then it means NOTHING.

    Sure you will make sales here and there but I would rather have a list of 5000 people who know me well that they will open my emails and buy/read.

    Now if you have 100,000 subscribers who a large portion opens your emails, you can make a ton of money.

    I learned from Terry Dean, who is an online business coach, that if you can grow your list and build your relationship with them, you can automatically grow your income.
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  • Profile picture of the author jborjaperez
    I actually just recently started. I attempted to build a list a couple years ago. I had a whopping 3 people on my list!!

    But I'm starting all over and I'm gonna do it right.

    I'll be using this as motivation. Hopefully I can get to 100!

    -Jared
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    In my signature.. It's not a secret method.. It's a lifestyle.. It's Day 1, Follow Me From The Bottom UP!

    I Write Articles Too! PM ME!

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  • Profile picture of the author gpwilson
    It is really worthy. I already did that and i am still doing that. It is true that the result would not instant but we would see result in future if we do it effectively.
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  • Profile picture of the author dsouravs
    Let me ask the newbies....
    Do you have one?
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    I can convert your Non-Responsive website to Responsive website ... How sweet is that? :)

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  • Profile picture of the author Webpreneurx
    Its not how big your list is but how many are actually clicking through to your offers. You can have a big list with high open rate or even low but not many clicking your money links
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  • Profile picture of the author fcebri24
    It is not about the size....is how you complement it. Size by itself does nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    i actually have more buyers on my list than prospects

    its been that way for a while now because i often get rid of the dead weights

    building a list of freebies is still important because you can of course convert a lot of those into customers however i like to build buyers straight off the bat or get affiliates to send you the buyers as well :-)

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author GuruGuna
      Originally Posted by paul nicholls View Post

      i actually have more buyers on my list than prospects

      its been that way for a while now because i often get rid of the dead weights

      building a list of freebies is still important because you can of course convert a lot of those into customers however i like to build buyers straight off the bat or get affiliates to send you the buyers as well :-)

      Paul
      This is a great strategy and in the long term you are left with the best list.

      However don't people differ in their reaction for different offers? How do know the person you weed out would not be your customer for your next product? Maybe he or she will open your next offer?
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      • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
        Originally Posted by GuruGuna View Post

        This is a great strategy and in the long term you are left with the best list.

        However don't people differ in their reaction for different offers? How do know the person you weed out would not be your customer for your next product? Maybe he or she will open your next offer?
        I only delete subscribers that have not opened a number of my emails not just 1 or 2

        I only want responsive subscribers on my list

        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Hugall
          Originally Posted by paul nicholls View Post

          I only delete subscribers that have not opened a number of my emails not just 1 or 2

          I only want responsive subscribers on my list

          Paul

          I have started sending to the un-opens regularly and I have seen a decent increase. They haven't been getting deliverd Aweber has had some troubles so I gave that a try and some of my old regs are back and buying.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeremiahSay
    5.5 inches with 52% opt-in rate.
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    • Profile picture of the author johndetlefs
      Originally Posted by JeremiahSay View Post

      5.5 inches with 52% opt-in rate.
      LOL! I was waiting for something like that.

      I have to say that's a pretty good opt-in rate. Sadly I never converted like that!
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  • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
    Banned
    Some say size does not matter and it's what you do with your list. Others say size does matter regardless of what you do on your list.

    Why not combine those two? A big list and a good method of interacting with your list is a better one, isn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author murtuza
    you have to make sure that you build relationship with your list. This is the glue. If you have a list but you have not fucused in building that glue you will not make sales. The key to building relationship is to send out interactive emails where your subscribers can actually communicate with you if not always at least once a week.

    When you reply to them it creates that touch that they will never forget because you have taken your personal time to respond.

    Send out high quality content, videos, audios and then promote them your products. Your products will sell and in many cases you will not even need a salesletter if you have done a good job of relationship building. The formula is...

    Traffic - leads - relationship - sales...
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    Want to know my true story & how I got started with my internet business? What kind of problems I faced to get started & how I finally cracked the internet code? I have also prepared a 30 day blueprint for you to get started. No signup is required, just rush in to check out pure content ==> how to start an online business - And yeah, if you like what you read don't forget to 'like' & 'tweet' it. All the best :0)

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  • Profile picture of the author eniggma
    Great thread. I agree that people are making money building a relationship with their list, as well as spamming it. I think the best long term model would be to have a great sales funnel in place and quality content lined up and drive traffic constantly.
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    "Successful people do the things unsuccessful people won't do" - (Somebody successful) :)

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    • Profile picture of the author GuruGuna
      Originally Posted by murtuza View Post

      you have to make sure that you build relationship with your list. This is the glue. If you have a list but you have not fucused in building that glue you will not make sales. The key to building relationship is to send out interactive emails where your subscribers can actually communicate with you if not always at least once a week.

      When you reply to them it creates that touch that they will never forget because you have taken your personal time to respond.

      Send out high quality content, videos, audios and then promote them your products. Your products will sell and in many cases you will not even need a salesletter if you have done a good job of relationship building. The formula is...

      Traffic - leads - relationship - sales...
      Glue it is. Thanks for sharing this with the rest. I always encourage people to send quality content that adds value. Improve your open rate and work on that click through rate by providing some quality content.

      Originally Posted by eniggma View Post

      Great thread. I agree that people are making money building a relationship with their list, as well as spamming it. I think the best long term model would be to have a great sales funnel in place and quality content lined up and drive traffic constantly.
      Correct. Have to look at the long term here.
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  • Profile picture of the author evilbunnies
    It doesn't really matter how big your list is or how high your open rate is, you should always be trying to improve both of those numbers. If not your just leaving money on the table.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    My list is not as responsive as it was when I started it back in 2005 and there were only a few hundred, but I'm making a lot more money now that it's in the 50K range.

    So I don't care as much about responsiveness or size....I care about the bottom line.
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Originally Posted by GuruGuna View Post

    If you have anxiously dropped in, then you guessed it right!

    Sounds interesting right?

    Oh, relax! I am referring to your list! Yes that's right. Only your list. Nothing else.

    Now that I have your attention, let's focus on the topic at hand...

    How big is your email list in total?


    So many people, including me, have made the mistake of not building a list from the beginning. Now days, I tell all those that are new to internet marketing that they have to start with a list and then everything else will fall into place.

    With a decent size list, you don't have to worry about what Google has in plan next to weed out your sites or how you are going to make your next sale.

    Once you establish a good list, you can use it over and over again. These people are your customers. They know you, and they will buy from you.

    I could go on forever about list building, but if you don't have a list, start today. Make this thread as a motivation for you to get started. There are many tools available on this forum that could get you started right away. Setup a squeeze page and offer something for free. Get that list going.

    So to get you started, I have several lists since I only started a year ago to build a list. I have been testing them, segregating them into different lists, etc. So the total number of people is around 15K. Yes it is not that big but enough to make me some money. Once again I have made the mistake of not building my list from the beginning and also internet marketing was just a hobby for me until now. Also I have several membership sites and in some sites I have over 25K members. I am beginning to utilize those sites because they could also act just like a list. I am starting to send them ezines.

    So how big is yours?

    Funny, how the OP and his clever headlines had NOT even one 'Thanks'

    Just makes you wonder
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Aweber - 17,000 +
    Imnica - 24,000 +
    Self- hosted - 16,000 +

    Total - 57,000 + subscribers

    Now, lots of folks are saying "size doesn't matter" and it's "how responsive the list is"...

    This is 100% true... but if the list IS responsive a BIGGER ONE is much better

    So, focus on building as big a list as you possibly can while providing value to that list and you will never be with out money again

    List building is a LONG TERM business model - keep that in mind!

    Cheers,
    Coby
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    A little under 5 figures since I'm always constantly cleaning out the unresponsive subs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    4 inches, 2 inches in length and 2 inches wide, wait a minute what are we talking about here :confused:
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    " I knew that if I failed, I wouldn't regret that.
    But I knew the one thing I might regret is not ever having tried. "

    ~ Jeff Bezos

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  • Profile picture of the author Theduke2011
    It's how you use it, and yes I have a pretty large one.
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    Classified Posting & Ad Management Expert
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  • Profile picture of the author New Comer
    So should you not offer something free as bait to sign up? If I'm trying to sell rap beats online is it a bad idea to offer 5 beats free in return for name and email?
    Signature

    dope

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  • Hahaha! Love this thread title! Very interesting!
    Mine is around 2000 buyers only!

    I have a freebie list too that was built with solos and other free offers. I have around 3000 on there but it does not convert as well as my buyers list
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