Dirty secrets of the industry

49 replies
Some time ago i met up with a couple of my friends who worked as website designers and developers. Some shocking truth they told me that i thought maybe you guys would be interested to know. No bullshit i've seen the proposals and price list.

1) They typically can charge up to $30,000 to develop the website. When i saw their price listing, it broke down the cost into individual element and it cost $75 to put up google analytics on the website. How ridiculous! I probably only need 5 minutes to get that done.

2) Customers who approach them to build websites have absolutely no idea how easy it is to make these websites. They price their package higher when the customer propose some changes to it; they just pretend that it's complicated and that it will cost more money when in actual fact its not that difficult to carry out those changes

3) Many promise first page on google ranking but more often than not, they are working on the least competitive keywords (easiest to get ranked with little effort). Customers unknowingly suscribe to their SEO service, feeding them tons of money every month

4) It's VERY LUCRATIVE if you know how to monetize website creation. People out there have no knowledge of how EASY it is to build up websites, especially wordpress since its so flexible.

Tell me what you think of this
#dirty #industry #secrets
  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Ken Russell
    Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post

    Some time ago i met up with a couple of my friends who worked as website designers and developers. Some shocking truth they told me that i thought maybe you guys would be interested to know. No bullshit i've seen the proposals and price list.

    1) They typically can charge up to $30,000 to develop the website. When i saw their price listing, it broke down the cost into individual element and it cost $75 to put up google analytics on the website. How ridiculous! I probably only need 5 minutes to get that done.

    2) Customers who approach them to build websites have absolutely no idea how easy it is to make these websites. They price their package higher when the customer propose some changes to it; they just pretend that it's complicated and that it will cost more money when in actual fact its not that difficult to carry out those changes

    3) Many promise first page on google ranking but more often than not, they are working on the least competitive keywords (easiest to get ranked with little effort). Customers unknowingly suscribe to their SEO service, feeding them tons of money every month

    4) It's VERY LUCRATIVE if you know how to monetize website creation. People out there have no knowledge of how EASY it is to build up websites, especially wordpress since its so flexible.

    Tell me what you think of this
    Well that's the great thing about this industry, the people that aren't in it (your target market) how no idea on how simple things are. They think, that it takes a bunch of high-technical coding and programming skills to set up a website.

    Although a simple wordpress site is a lot less difficult to create then a customized HTML based website. So the price ranges could vary from low to high.

    Aside from that, it's up to provide value to your customer in terms of how much you are charging. You should do the due diligence and present your clients fair pricing. If the keyword competition is low, and has let's say > 10 search volume a month, you shouldn't be charging $3,000 a month because well, you know that the return for your client won't be anywhere near that.

    But you can present value in different ways. A lot of business owners usually jump at the fact that you can get them on #1 of "GOOGLE" for the keywords targeting their business. It's up to you at the end of the day to price however you want. But being honest and fair will lead you to a better place down the road.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    The point is, its easy for the professional and VERY DIFFICULT to learn for those who are not. That's the pricing issue you've seemed to miss here.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post

    Some time ago i met up with a couple of my friends who worked as website designers and developers. Some shocking truth they told me that i thought maybe you guys would be interested to know. No bullshit i've seen the proposals and price list.

    1) They typically can charge up to $30,000 to develop the website. When i saw their price listing, it broke down the cost into individual element and it cost $75 to put up google analytics on the website. How ridiculous! I probably only need 5 minutes to get that done.

    2) Customers who approach them to build websites have absolutely no idea how easy it is to make these websites. They price their package higher when the customer propose some changes to it; they just pretend that it's complicated and that it will cost more money when in actual fact its not that difficult to carry out those changes

    3) Many promise first page on google ranking but more often than not, they are working on the least competitive keywords (easiest to get ranked with little effort). Customers unknowingly suscribe to their SEO service, feeding them tons of money every month

    4) It's VERY LUCRATIVE if you know how to monetize website creation. People out there have no knowledge of how EASY it is to build up websites, especially wordpress since its so flexible.

    Tell me what you think of this
    OH YEAH! It used to be that they would charge like $25+ for a simple page, $100+ for ****EACH**** PROVIDED graphic, Over $100/hour, etc.... A single page HTML only site created by an IDIOT with NO SEO whatsoever could cost THOUSANDS! HELL, at one point several traffic companies charged DOZENS of dollars for JAVASCRIPT "links". They were near WORTHLESS in ANY regard! And what of the PURE graphic ones? NO SEO and hard to modify, but they LOOKED beautiful! And THEY cost a lot! That is one reason why ADOBE charged so much. Back then, they cost even MORE than they do NOW! And don't forget POSTSCRIPT! It was GREAT, and widely adopted INTERNATIONALLY and in MANY brands! It is GONE now! WHY? POSSIBLY, because it cost a FORTUNE!

    And a lot of people DID fall for it. SOME people, however, even people "in IT", have ******NO****** idea of how complex some things can be, and think a VERY complex task is EASY!

    FOR EXAMPLE! A person recently asked my group to change ONE value in an application. Basically, change its purpose. Sound simple? Well......

    1. Change that ONE field? It may take less than a day. Maybe even SECONDS! BUT.....
    2. What about ongoing processes? Where it is copied to? Maybe joins? etc....?
    3. Reports?
    4. Other consumers?
    5. The loss of the original value?

    All that Could take YEARS! It could mean discussing with who knows HOW many departments! And you better DOCUMENT it well, and handle upgrades right!

    Anyway, more and more people are going to UNDERESTIMATE effort, etc... So you may find that MANY are unwilling to spend HUGE amounts for largely boilerplate stuff.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KarileeO
    Effort does get underestimated - many of my clients think I should charge less for redoing a site that already exists. This is never easier, at least not to do right, but from their point of view, it looks like part of the work is already done.

    The website design business can be frustrating precisely because the clients are ignorant, if you do honest work for honest pay. Good SEO in particular is invisible to clients (although the results aren't).

    They get scammed so often, and then I fix the messes for a fraction of what they originally paid because of some slick sales pitch. However, it's satisfying to see their site traffic rise immediately.

    Out of interest, I attended WordPress Wordcamp Vancouver last week, and they mentioned that in a survey they did, the average price of a WordPress website sold to a small business was $2500.
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    • Profile picture of the author ponyboy
      Off lline clients are a good bunch of people to penetrate. I met this guy who bought over a web development company in vietnam, takes advantage of the cheap labour and sells of the sites for 3-4 times the original amount. well he didn't exactly tell me how cheap the labour but i assumed there's a reason for bringing his work over to vietnam
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post

        Off lline clients are a good bunch of people to penetrate. I met this guy who bought over a web development company in vietnam, takes advantage of the cheap labour and sells of the sites for 3-4 times the original amount. well he didn't exactly tell me how cheap the labour but i assumed there's a reason for bringing his work over to vietnam
        The price in the US goes ALL OVER the place. You could literally go to 5 places and ask for the SAME site and prices could range from 0 into the thousands of dollars. SERIOUSLY!

        Some places ARE willing to do it for FREE to get business ELSEWHERE, and THOSE prices may be reasonable. OTHER people have piecemeal plans, like I described, that may cost a LOT!

        If you go in KNOWING what you want, and provide base graphics, prices SHOULD be very reasonable in the US. Of course MOST people go in with NO idea!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I think offline business owners are clueless when it comes to building a website. They'd be willing to spend thousands on a site that could have only costed $20 to create.
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    • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      I think offline business owners are clueless when it comes to building a website. They'd be willing to spend thousands on a site that could have only costed $20 to create.

      Absolutely. And I think web designers are clueless about the amount of money offline business owners pay to advertise in the (now relatively usless) Yellow Pages.

      I paid $1,800 for a small, dollar-bill size Yellow pages ad. Oh wait... that was $1,800 per month - month after month, after month.

      For many years that Yellow Pages ad worked, paying for itself 10x over every month. Then as people began to use online searches to find local merchants, the effectiveness of that Yellow Pages ad began to fall until it just barely paid for itself each month.

      Business was coming to me from my website.

      The Yellow Pages salespeople keep talking local business owners into advertising with them.

      For the past 5 or 6 years the local Yellow Pages has been building websites and offering them as a add-ons to their customers. I never bothered to price websites from the Yellow Pages folks, because I was building my own, but I suspect the are not cheap.

      :-Don
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    • Profile picture of the author shipwrecked
      Yes, you are right...

      In fact I know examples of big companies, governments spending tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands even on "sophisticated sites" that could have cost under 500 $!

      I guess web developers know how to milk the big companies - that have tons of money to waste and no clue about how SEO and web design, site coding works!
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  • Profile picture of the author WillyZ
    I couldn't help but laugh when I read $30,000 for a Wordpress site.
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    My guess is that the OP is in arizona
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    I'm not surprised that that happens somewhere, but it is probably the exception rather than the rule.
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  • Profile picture of the author dsouravs
    Its not only true in web industry but every industry I guess.

    If the provider found out that the client doesn't have much info then the provider will crook him..

    But this type of providers don't go a long way...I think...they will be paid back by bad karma...

    TY
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    There once was a guy who owned a massive machine that made very special products. It was a machine that could turn out products that retailed for more than $100,000 every day. One day the machine broke down and the guy was frantic because he was losing so much money.

    He called in this really smart technician to fix the machine. The tech showed up and looked the machine over. He took out several electronic testers and tested the thing. Then he took out a stethoscope and listened. "Hmmm..." he said. Finally he took out a tiny little silver hammer, went behind the machine, reached up high and tapped once very gently. And whammo! That sucker started up and began to spit out lots of product again.

    The owner was overjoyed and asked the guy how much the bill was. The guy said, $500,000.00. The owner almost fainted saying $500,000 was outrageous because all the tech did was tap once gently with a hammer. The repair guy looked at the owner and said, "Here's the breakdown. $1.00 for tapping the machine. $499,999.00 for knowing where to tap.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post

    Some time ago i met up with a couple of my friends who worked as website designers and developers. Some shocking truth they told me that i thought maybe you guys would be interested to know. No bullshit i've seen the proposals and price list.

    1) They typically can charge up to $30,000 to develop the website. When i saw their price listing, it broke down the cost into individual element and it cost $75 to put up google analytics on the website. How ridiculous! I probably only need 5 minutes to get that done.

    2) Customers who approach them to build websites have absolutely no idea how easy it is to make these websites. They price their package higher when the customer propose some changes to it; they just pretend that it's complicated and that it will cost more money when in actual fact its not that difficult to carry out those changes

    3) Many promise first page on google ranking but more often than not, they are working on the least competitive keywords (easiest to get ranked with little effort). Customers unknowingly suscribe to their SEO service, feeding them tons of money every month

    4) It's VERY LUCRATIVE if you know how to monetize website creation. People out there have no knowledge of how EASY it is to build up websites, especially wordpress since its so flexible.

    Tell me what you think of this

    It's hardly a dirty secret... Far from it. When you first jumped onto a computer what could you do with it? Nothing... You had to learn a set of skills. In fact a whole bunch of different skills, right.

    That's worth something... Much like a doctor with specialized knowledge or a lawyer getting you off a parking fine. Specialized knowledge is worth whatever another will pay for it and that comes down to how bad they need or want what you've got.
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    I have a customer that is an anesthesiologist. He makes $600,000 per year. Apparently all he does is play on his phone all day until sh** goes down and he has to step in to save someone from being brain dead in about 20 seconds. Then he goes back to playing on his phone.

    I guess he makes more than some of the surgeons doing the surgery and he might have 2 or 3 going on at once.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

      I have a customer that is an anesthesiologist. He makes $600,000 per year. Apparently all he does is play on his phone all day until sh** goes down and he has to step in to save someone from being brain dead in about 20 seconds. Then he goes back to playing on his phone.

      I guess he makes more than some of the surgeons doing the surgery and he might have 2 or 3 going on at once.
      anesthesiologists have to be LICENSED, and are needed for surgery. THAT is how they make the money. They are SUPPOSED to watch the patient and vitals, and monitor things. If he is playing games, he could be charged with, at the LEAST, NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE!!!!!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post

    How ridiculous! I probably only need 5 minutes to get that done.
    I was sitting in a restaurant one day and overheard two people saying they really needed to get a new website built, but they'd have to be selective because they didn't want to spend more than $50,000.

    Now imagine if I had turned around and said "I can build your website for $40,000. Here's my card."

    Then imagine I called your friend to build it for $30,000.

    - The business owners save $10,000 on their website.
    - Your friend gets $30,000 for building the website.
    - I get $10,000 for giving them my card.

    Everybody wins. Everybody gets what they want. Everybody is happy.

    If you have a problem with it, you don't understand business and will always be broke.

    It's okay - I used to have a problem with this, too. Because I didn't understand business. And I was always broke.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      I was sitting in a restaurant one day and overheard two people saying they really needed to get a new website built, but they'd have to be selective because they didn't want to spend more than $50,000.

      Now imagine if I had turned around and said "I can build your website for $40,000. Here's my card."

      Then imagine I called your friend to build it for $30,000.

      - The business owners save $10,000 on their website.
      - Your friend gets $30,000 for building the website.
      - I get $10,000 for giving them my card.

      Everybody wins. Everybody gets what they want. Everybody is happy.

      If you have a problem with it, you don't understand business and will always be broke.

      It's okay - I used to have a problem with this, too. Because I didn't understand business. And I was always broke.
      OH, OK! so you would be OK with getting a President Yellow Gold - Fluted Bezel - President for $80K USD! Why don't you buy one? It is a nice cute watch, a status symbol, and the $80K could make a LOT of people VERY happy! And it is really worth FAR more than those sites!

      WOW, I priced this watch in the US in 1989 at about 15K! I could have gotten it in Denmark for $9! NOW, it retails for over $30K!!!!!!! I should have bought it. 8-(

      BTW you did NOT know what you are doing! The reasonable price for websites is between $0 and several *****MILLION*****! SERIOUSLY, some are run on multiple platforms with custom programming. HOW do you know they weren't talking about one that would cost over $50K?

      Steve
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  • Haha, this is also apparent with a lot of 'SEO gurus' around my area.

    Corporates literally fork out nearly 10 grand for SEO and that's only targeting one keyword whereas the service I use (not owned by me) allows me 40+ keywords for not even 10% of that price.

    A lot of people I know also paid about 10k for a website that doesn't convert and isn't even optimized for SEO nor has any sort of income-producing purpose other than give information.

    Ignorance really has a price doesn't it.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Michaelangelo Flores View Post

      Ignorance really has a price doesn't it.
      Ignorance also has value. If I hire someone to build my website, I don't need to know how to build a website. That means I don't have to spend all that time learning it, let alone doing it, and I can spend that time on something else.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Ignorance also has value. If I hire someone to build my website, I don't need to know how to build a website. That means I don't have to spend all that time learning it, let alone doing it, and I can spend that time on something else.
        Ignorance wouldn't really be the right word for that case though lol.

        I never designed any of my websites nor was I involved in any of the processes but I still paid nowhere near 10k and they fulfill their intended purpose (i.e convert) wonderfully. If I didn't know any better, I would've threw thousands at something that should even cost more than $25.

        But you get what I mean.
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  • Profile picture of the author GuyDon
    Now the prices hit rock bottom... you can have the greatest looking web site in your industry by paying $40 for a premium theme
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  • Profile picture of the author Lena Williams
    I do not think that this can be a dirty secret. Even in general market, if you go to a market and see something which is new to you, you will become interested to buy that. Naturally it will be high price regardless the costing of that product. Because it is a new product.

    Similarly, web design market is something new to people still now. . Even you can take this chance to make some good amount of moeny.
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  • Profile picture of the author brentb
    Some sites do literally cost hundreds of thousands... if you are talking $30k for a blog then yes that's a rip off.
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    There are price points for all levels of work. A $30,000 website is not a "dirty little secret" if it's high end work. Fortune 500 companies often spend more than this on their sites. The difference between someone charging $200 at odesk and the $30,000 studio is not even worth discussing.

    Web design is both technical and a form of art. You can't buy a Picasso for fifty bucks.

    2advanced.com
    totalidentity.com
    thebrandunion.com
    agencynet.com

    On the other hand, if someone is presenting themselves as something they are not with the mindset of maximizing profits and not delivering true value, well, it is what it is. Those people rarely make a career of what they do. They make money here and there, but end up back in the gutter.

    Originally Posted by KarileeO View Post

    Out of interest, I attended WordPress Wordcamp Vancouver last week, and they mentioned that in a survey they did, the average price of a WordPress website sold to a small business was $2500.
    WordPress has created a ton of wannabe designers. You look at their portfolios and they are basically designing the same site over and over. Just a different header, background and color schemes. Pathetic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post

    3) Many promise first page on google ranking but more often than not, they are working on the least competitive keywords (easiest to get ranked with little effort). Customers unknowingly suscribe to their SEO service, feeding them tons of money every month

    Tell me what you think of this
    That makes me sick.

    It's abuse - just because the person paying doesn't realise you're lying to them and charging them for crap doesn't mean you should do it.

    That's why the industry gets a bad reputation.

    I suppose I shouldn't complain because it means that when people come to me and get real value and results they're always very happy and like to tell others.

    I hate it when clients come to me and tell me how they've been ripped off by people promising them results that were not possible or realistic or just BSing them about how hard things are so they can charge them more.

    The reality of this stuff is that big companies will happily pay good money for simple things because it's not just the time it takes that they're paying for - they're paying for ongoing support, and the security that no matter what happens you'll be there for them.

    Many little guys do not realise what is involved and want to pay as little as possible and end up paying rip-off merchants who take all the short cuts and can only get them poor to average results at best.

    I believe it's not our job to rip people off - but to educate them as to what they should want. If they want bottom-dollar price and unrealistic promises then they're going to get the low end of the spectrum as their provider.
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
    Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post

    Some time ago i met up with a couple of my friends who worked as website designers and developers. Some shocking truth they told me that i thought maybe you guys would be interested to know. No bullshit i've seen the proposals and price list.

    1) They typically can charge up to $30,000 to develop the website. When i saw their price listing, it broke down the cost into individual element and it cost $75 to put up google analytics on the website. How ridiculous! I probably only need 5 minutes to get that done.

    2) Customers who approach them to build websites have absolutely no idea how easy it is to make these websites. They price their package higher when the customer propose some changes to it; they just pretend that it's complicated and that it will cost more money when in actual fact its not that difficult to carry out those changes

    3) Many promise first page on google ranking but more often than not, they are working on the least competitive keywords (easiest to get ranked with little effort). Customers unknowingly suscribe to their SEO service, feeding them tons of money every month

    4) It's VERY LUCRATIVE if you know how to monetize website creation. People out there have no knowledge of how EASY it is to build up websites, especially wordpress since its so flexible.

    Tell me what you think of this
    I think you should go into web design to find out the pains designers go through lol.
    I mean it's easy being on the outside looking in but customers can be a royal pain.

    Try redesigning a site you thought was a piece of cake only to find out it was on an old outdated windows database that you have to go in and extract the old information step by step and then port it over to a new windows format.

    Try dealing with those last minute changes that the client wants or emergencies.
    Try feeding your family while your clients wait to pay their bills.

    There's a lot more to web design then just being on the outside looking in. Oh, and btw not all clients care for Wordpress. Heck I still don't know if you can get wordpress up to PCI standards.
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  • Profile picture of the author nav123
    Haha honestly does it matter for those people who are earning average at least 6 figures monthly. Maybe they are just busy with their own work. 30k is like their cup of tea.
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Why don't I just draw out the characters for my latest project?

    Well I suck at drawing. So I pay a premium to get those digital jpegs sent to my email address.

    Sure I could learn. But my drawing experience is little. I bet its actually as easy as installing an Analytic's code if you know what your doing. Bottom line?

    I don't know what I'm doing.

    Is $75 too much for the installation of an analytic's code? I say yet, but I understand the mechanics of installing such a code. I'm sure the dude I pay $$$ to draw and color my jpegs says the same thing to his own industry friends.

    BP
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    You're going to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you do not belong in the Internet Marketing Business. Period.
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  • Profile picture of the author xezile
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by xezile View Post

      I had no clue that the prices can be that high for creating websites. It is absolutely outrageous.
      At age 11(in 2001) I mastered HTML, mastered Photoshop and I was better at putting together a website than I was at playing video games. I did it as a hobby with friends and we'd express ourselves through web design. At age 12, my MAX WPM was 201 with 97% accuracy.
      I could have been filthy rich, but Pokemon, Playstation, Speed SiMulation RP(alert me if you know what this is) and Counter-Strike was more interesting to me at that age and occupied most of my attention(nor did I realize the value of what I had assessed.)
      Talk about wasted knowledge.
      Ah, the old 56K(if you were lucky) days. YOU'VE GOT MAIL! *Lags*

      P.S. wtF is this "WordPress" that everyone mentions of.
      I only know of FRONTPAGE and RAW H.T.M.L.
      Automated drag and drop plug-in's? Ehh...that's what people are paying for?
      One can consider that a paid task? Come on now.
      Sounds like creating a Facebook or Myspace profile.
      You sound like you STILL don't have a clue. ****MASTERED**** HTML? It sounds like you didn't learn other things so you could properly assess it. I'm decent, but I won't say I MASTERED it. At least *I* can assess it. It isn't always what you do, and how it looks. ***MASTERED*** photoshop? I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH! There is too much to know, and a 12 year old is unlikely to be exposed to enough to assess it. 201 sounds HIGH:

      How Many Words Per Minute is Good | Reference Answers

      Apparently one person broke an "all time record" at 199. You should have competed.

      Front page is junk, and raw really only uses a portion of what HTML can do. Wordpress in a blogging program that takes raw html.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
    Good for them!

    If the business is doing more than six figures every year then it doesn't hurt to shell out $30,000 for a website that will strengthen the bottom line even further.

    It's not the web designers fault that the business owner is willing to pay that much. He's not building websites for a social cause. He's doing it for a living. If the web designers overcharge, they don't get any clients. Period.

    Now, if the business owner hasn't done his research, that's his lookout. Plus, There is always someone out there offering the same service cheaper. Also, if I was a tech noob business owner and a web-designer provided rock-solid service at 30K I'd be willing to stick with him EVEN AFTER I find out that there are cheaper alternatives. Why? It's less of a headache. We do it all the time. Why do you use Windows/MAC over Linux? It's less of a headache to stick with what you know.

    Plus web designing is a tedious task. Sure, almost anyone could install a Wordpress site, but try modding it. When the client is paying $30,000 and tells you I want BLAHBLAH to go here you can't tell them, sorry but there's no theme or plugin that does that. They'll take their business elsewhere. You hack into Wordpress and make it look just the way he wants it. Now that takes a lot of work.

    The business owner is delegating his stress. It's a voluntary transaction. Everybody wins.
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    I work as a developer and sites are expensive if they are worth it. Sure a premium theme is ok for an info site but what about a customised ecommerce solution using open source? 30k might not be enough. Sure if the site is basically just info with a premium theme it is a rip off. However I have worked on huge teams working on a site for over a year. Let me tell you that 30k barely covers a fraction of the overall cost.
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  • Profile picture of the author TeamOneStudio
    That would be another story is the project is to build a mission critical website like banking, large scale trading market, etc...that price may worth.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nail Yener
    Those numbers are amazing. Are we living in the same world? I know that high-end complicated sites could cost a lot but if that is what an offline business owner is paying for a simple website, it is unbelievable.

    What I don't understand is how a business owner that doesn't make research to find cheaper and probably better alternatives before spending $30,000 on a website can become so successful in his business so that he can spend $30,000 on a website.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Nail Yener View Post

      Those numbers are amazing. Are we living in the same world? I know that high-end complicated sites could cost a lot but if that is what an offline business owner is paying for a simple website, it is unbelievable.
      Not really when you consider those same people are paying $10k for the same information they could come here and read for free.

      When people want to spend money - they will, and there's always people lining up to take it.
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      nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
      Originally Posted by Nail Yener View Post

      Those numbers are amazing. Are we living in the same world? I know that high-end complicated sites could cost a lot but if that is what an offline business owner is paying for a simple website, it is unbelievable.

      What I don't understand is how a business owner that doesn't make research to find cheaper and probably better alternatives before spending $30,000 on a website can become so successful in his business so that he can spend $30,000 on a website.
      He doesn't spend longer researching because he can more profitably spend that time.

      It's not a choice between do more research, pay less and do no research pay more.

      It's a choice between do more research, pay less and NOT do something else vs pay more, do no research and do whatever that something else is.

      It's called opportunity cost and I highly recommend you look it up, it'll make you a lot of money.
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  • Profile picture of the author brentb
    $75 for Google Analytics is a bit much but if the rate is $100 an hour its not too inflated. In the professional web development world, everything is checked to make sure it works, probably set up conversion points and stuff, checked to make sure it worked... tada 45 minutes down the drain. So no $75 isn't unreasonable.

    I charge $50 an hr for phone consulting and $100 an hour for hands on work... so if you ask me to type you SEO articles, you are still paying me $100 an hour. Same if you ask me to set up Google Analytics. I am not ripping you off, that's what my time is worth. Period. Don't like it, hire someone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author godinu
    Don't be fooled. Finding someone who will pay $30,000 for a website is like finding someone who will pay $30,000 for someone to mow a small lawn. I have worked with many celebrity clients and had design studios make websites for them and none of them cost anywhere near $30,000 and they were top-notch stuff. Winners of webby awards and all that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesse L
    There was a company that had its network go down. They tried and tried to get it back online but nothing they did worked. As they were constantly losing money while the network was down they decided to call a man known for his problem solving skills. The man comes in, pushes a button in the back and everything comes online.

    The owner thanks the man over and over and then asks how much he is owed.
    This man calmly responds with the figure of $20K.

    "WHAT?!" cries the owner. "How can you charge so much for something so simple."

    The man calmly explains: "It's not how many buttons you push, but rather knowing what buttons to push"

    JL
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  • Profile picture of the author ARealBiz
    It is down to how you position yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author gauravsharma5761
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    • Many traditional retail businesses, even today, are slow getting to the Web.

      One of my wholesale vendors decided last year (unbeknownst to me) that I shouldn't be making all those profits from selling their stuff on my retail site. So they put up one of their own, one of those cheapie little ecommerce pages. They undercut my prices, added some pretty pictures and text, and waited.

      And waited. And waited.

      Seems their marketing person had never heard of SEO. There are *no* links to the site. I only found it because I was doing a long tailed search for something else. Then I did a WHOIS and found out it was them.

      I've ranked #1 for all their keywords for three years now. I don't see that changing any time soon.

      fLufF
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  • Profile picture of the author sunray
    What you tend to forget are all other expenses around a product. If a company can sell a website for 30K, it means this company has to advertise A LOT. It has to have an office in a business area that costs a lot (those "no clue" offline people would never trust someone who only has an online presence), and this office must have some good selling people in it. And, the company pays taxes too. This is what makes the price so high.
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  • Profile picture of the author wfvoodoo
    These days it is relatively easy to create a decent web site with tools like Wordpress but depending the client and how particular they are the amount of time and effort required can increase rapidly. I had a friend who ran a web site design company and he told me his big clients were incredilby picky and difficult constantly wanting changes and pushing extra things. Because they were big clients he treid to meet their needs but it did impact his labour costs and foreced up prices he charged them.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Fiverr is forcing people wake up. Why pay $500.00 for a simple logo, when can use a fiverr to get one. Basically, it is now a new game. A lot of people are using out sourcing to hire off shore inexpensive programmers. Art work creation is also being sent over seas. If you create new web sites now. Well, expect a dramatic drop in your income.
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  • Profile picture of the author argangapoi
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  • Profile picture of the author WarHobby
    I'm a web developer and built my own website in 12 hours that includes an online shopping cart using OpenCart, a PhPBB forum and also installed my own google analytic and FaceBook intergration. Its only been online a week and its slowly building traffic but I realized I would be better off creating sites for other people. The money to be made there is massive. I just need to build my portfolio of sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by WarHobby View Post

      I'm a web developer and built my own website in 12 hours that includes an online shopping cart using OpenCart, a PhPBB forum and also installed my own google analytic and FaceBook intergration. Its only been online a week and its slowly building traffic but I realized I would be better off creating sites for other people. The money to be made there is massive. I just need to build my portfolio of sites.
      one question. concerning your opencart phbb and fb integrations. did you create one login for everything?

      those are the types of issues real designers run into. other problems that could arise are the payment processor their using not everyone is using paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    People will throw money at their problems to make them go away.

    Think for a second at how much work is involved for us online marketers to get a new project underway, create the product, hire freelancers, get the website built, get graphics done, sales copy, affiliate JV's, and the list goes on...

    There's a lot of work in doing all that no doubt so our days are filled with our own projects to grow our business.

    If the water heater suddenly stops working in your home do you think you would search the internet looking for a reasonable answer as to what it might be or are you just going to call a professional and make the problem go away?

    My point is, offline business owners are far too busy with the day to day operations of their own business so they don't have a spec of time to learning how to setup a website or even researching what a website should have and cost, etc.

    They just hire someone to do it for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jackson Tan
    it is a cruel business world after all.. not surprising but there are bound to have black sheep in any industry.
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