List building secrets

34 replies
Hey,

when building your list, what strategy do you use - do you go for single or double opt-ins? Thanks!
#building #list #secrets
  • Profile picture of the author shintaiguy
    Personally I go for the double opt in most of the time but people are lazy and if they really don't want to be on your list they can unsubscribe. A single email capture field works well to as some of the names entered are quite rude so your first follow up might be

    Hi C*^t blah, blah, blah.

    depends on your niche as well.

    Clive
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  • Profile picture of the author himanuzo
    No matter about single or double opt-ins, make sure to attract targeted visitors (who are related to you niche) into the opt in.
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  • Profile picture of the author dengkane
    double opt-in should be the standard.

    After you finish your squeeze page, the next most important thing is driving target traffic to your squeeze page.

    I recommend niche forums for free target traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author dylan4f
    I switched to a single optins lately, and I found out that I got more subscribers from traffic that I send and the responsivness later is the same.. I was using double optins before, but from now on I'm on single opt in mode..

    Just my two cents

    Best of luck
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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    I personally believe that double optin is still the best way to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bond1806
    Can someone explain to newbie like me what is OPT IN? And what is double opt in?
    I am preparing 2 blogs and would like to know how to build my list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bond1806
    I did some googling and found it out...
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    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      Laser targeting prospects is the best way.

      Also forget all this Bulldoodah about making offers immediately so you can tell if they are buyers.

      Do you buy if the sales assistant comes up to you as soon as you enter a shop and tries to sell something to you?

      Thought not!

      Build a relationship and build trust forst then try to sell
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Sebastijan BBK Belko View Post

    when building your list, what strategy do you use - do you go for single or double opt-ins? Thanks!
    There's no such thing as "double opt-in", really: nobody has to opt in twice. There's one opt-in and a possible email confirmation of that opt-in. So the two options are actually "single opt-in" and "confirmed opt-in".

    Personally, I use single opt-in for the most part.

    There are about 100 threads discussing the relative merits of each. Here's one of the most recent ones: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ouble-opt.html

    Originally Posted by Sebastijan BBK Belko View Post

    List building secrets
    That's a much broader issue.

    For that one, I'd start with this thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6123982
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    • Profile picture of the author PCH
      When we listen to the experienced guys and gals on here, you'll get those who prefer either method. It can only come down to personal preference and your own findings. To discover what works best for you, it's very easy to run a split test. That will tell you for certain which is best.

      Hope that helps
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    • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      There's no such thing as "double opt-in", really: nobody has to opt in twice. There's one opt-in and a possible email confirmation of that opt-in. So the two options are actually "single opt-in" and "confirmed opt-in".
      "Call me pedantic", but one can argue that the "single" opt-in term would be used just in case there's term of comparison (i.e. double opt-in), so since that has been ruled out, there's actually just confirmed and non-confirmed opt-in.

      "Just sayin'..."

      Originally Posted by gcbmark20 View Post

      I know you are only asking them to confirm their subscription for Double Opt-In but most people are just looking for a quick solution to their problems.
      If that's the case, why don't you tell them the benefits of your emails? Surely you can offer more great content through a series of emails. Let's say the free report solves their problem, but why not tell them how to prevent it in the future, or what not, in the following emails? You have to give them a reason to stay on your list after they quench their thirst.

      And anyway, your statement doesn't make sense if they still have to confirm the email in order to get the free report (of course, if you don't redirect them to a download page after they subscribe).

      Coming back to the thread's discussion, I think that people who worry about not getting enough people to confirm their subscription don't do enough to make it happen. In this case, the "Thank You" page should be used to make them confirm the subscription, and you can go even further and tell them before hand, before they even enter their email address.

      Originally Posted by PCH View Post

      When we listen to the experienced guys and gals on here, you'll get those who prefer either method. It can only come down to personal preference and your own findings.
      Sorry, but I'm not following you. I can't see how a list of confirmed subscribers can be more valuable than one consisting of single opt-in subscribers (or non-confirmed, if you wish), and it's a fact (and common sense) that people who ask for confirmation build smaller lists. So personal preference can't be a factor.

      But what I think it boils down is how you market your subscription. If it's just "Hey, do you want updates?", then of course you'll get less people to confirm, since after all, they are free to come back whenever they want and check for updates for themselves.

      On the other hand, if you market it correctly, by telling them they will have access to exclusive content, more freebies, surprises (people like that) or whatever other selling points you have, the confirmation rate should be not a big problem.

      (I also think a lot of people try to obtain subscribers by "going under the radar", by not clearly stating they'll be sending emails, and try to get it by giving them the freebie.)

      Later edit:
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      1. The prospect can put junk in the opt in box, get your free report, and you
      don't actually gain a "real" subscriber as the address is totally undeliverable.
      Why don't you send the link for the freebie in the first email, and don't use confirmed opt-in? That way they have to use a real email address, and you can even track the number of downloads. (Of course, you can still do that on a regular download page, but this way would be easier, at least for a layman like me.)

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Aweber themselves strongly suggests using.
      I think AWeber recommends this because most people give access to their freebies on the "Thank you" page, because probably this is the way most people think it should be done. I don't think they'll have a problem if the majority of people would send them the download link in the email, but that's just my personal hunch.
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  • Profile picture of the author Arina
    double optins are much more valuable. If the person is not interested so he/she doesn't confirm - what's the point of having this person on the list?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Arina View Post

      double optins are much more valuable. If the person is not interested so he/she doesn't confirm - what's the point of having this person on the list?
      My experience, over the years, with large numbers of single-opt-in and confirmed opt-in lists, is totally different from this, Arina. There are all sorts of reasons other than "not being interested" which prevent some people from confirming their opt-in.
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      • Profile picture of the author SP ESP
        I have found in IM niche and to a lesser extent in other niches that it often comes down to the quality of the traffic. If the visitors to your squeeze page are targeted (that is they are interested in and want what you have to offer) then they will nearly all confirm their email addresses. If they are freebie clickers then it seems that a large percentage will not bother especially if they have already received what it is that they came for.
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    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by Arina View Post

      double optins are much more valuable. If the person is not interested so he/she doesn't confirm - what's the point of having this person on the list?
      Do you have any personal data to back that up?

      I value my list members by their willingness to take action. Their responsiveness to me. I have not noticed opt in preference affecting that.

      Some will point out people who use fake addresses to get your product but .. if you let them outsmart you ...

      Just deliver the product or link to the product via email. If they give a fake address ... no cookies.
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  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    Hi Seb!

    Some newcomers to list building may want to single opt-in to simply get the numbers on the list without asking them to jump through any more hoops.

    I know you are only asking them to confirm their subscription for Double Opt-In but most people are just looking for a quick solution to their problems.

    Again as mentioned by another warrior it depends on what niche you are in I suppose.

    Just test it to see what works best and don't worry too much about getting it perfect right away as this can slow your progress down as you may not take action on what needs to be done!

    Hope this helps and have a great day!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author brentb
    Its basic logic: (skip to bold below to read the conclusion)

    If you use double opt in, anyone on your landing page who is interested will put their email in. Then any that forget, don't receive the email, change their mind and don't want to opt in will all not double opt in. So your list now only includes people who SOI and then DOI. Leaving out people who forgot, didn't receive your email, people who don't want your email.

    If you SOI, then you get every single person who would have DOI, AND everyone who was interested who forgot to DOI, AND everyone who was interested but didn't get the email AND people who changed their mind and don't want the email.

    So SOI gets every quality subscriber you would have gotten with DOI + more people who want your emails who would have DOI if they had gotten the email or not forgotten about it. But people who change their mind are also in your list.

    If someone originally wanted to be on your list but then changed their mind, maybe by the time you do email them, they will have changed their mind again and really want it? I make an assumption that since this person changed their minds once, and originally expressed interest, they may change their minds again.

    So with SOI you have ALL people who would have DOI, ALL people who forgot and want to be on your list, ALL people who want to be on your list but didn't receive the email, and ALL people who aren't sure if they want to be on your list.

    So even if you have a higher unsubscribe rate, bounce rate etc. You WILL as a logical fact have more emails delivered to more interested people with SOI.

    DOI never makes sense unless your spam or hard bounces are out of control. Or if you make a higher margin than lost volume selling these records as DOI leads to 3rd parties.
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    • Profile picture of the author SP ESP
      Originally Posted by brentb View Post

      So with SOI you have ALL people who would have DOI, ALL people who forgot and want to be on your list, ALL people who want to be on your list but didn't receive the email, and ALL people who aren't sure if they want to be on your list.

      So even if you have a higher unsubscribe rate, bounce rate etc. You WILL as a logical fact have more emails delivered to more interested people with SOI.
      Good point and well put. So do you get many complaints then using single optin?
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      • Profile picture of the author brentb
        Originally Posted by SP ESP View Post

        Good point and well put. So do you get many complaints then using single optin?
        I manage multiple lists that get hundreds of opt-ins daily. Never had a problem with SOI.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        Originally Posted by SP ESP View Post

        do you get many complaints then using single optin?
        Using single opt-in doesn't affect the number of complaints you get.

        If someone's later going to forget who you are, dislike your emails, think you're "spamming" them, or whatever, having confirmed their opt-in at the time they originally subscribed (which of course they won't even remember) isn't typically going to make the slightest difference to them: they'll neither know nor care about it, at the time they complain.
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        • Profile picture of the author brentb
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Using single opt-in doesn't affect the number of complaints you get.
          I agree and disagree. Yes, I don't think it really changes peoples behaviors but for many autoresponder services "they" are in charge of the DOI email stats, so if your DOI gets spammed, its not counted against you. So all spams on your DOI email will be a wash if you are on one of these autoresponders, thus getting a portion of spammers out of your list right off the bat without you actually having a spam added to your account. But it really comes down to your email practices, content, scheduling etc... whether you get spammed or not, not your list building.

          Still think it makes almost no difference compared to what you lose with DOI.
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  • People don't remember whether they single or double opted into your list. So, if they reckon you're mailing them too often, or too many promotions, or whatever, they will both unsubscribe and indeed tick the "spam" box regardless of whether they single or double opted in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Jerrett
    I use single opt-in mostly. I've experimented with both and found that a lot of people don't bother to confirm their email address. When buying solo ads, I definitely use single opt-in all the time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      This is just a personal preference and I am not saying this is the right or best
      way to go about it, but I always use confirmed opt in.

      Are there problems with it? Sure, not the least of which is the person doesn't
      get the confirmation email. And with some email services, this happens a lot.

      What I don't like about unconfirmed opt in is the following:

      1. The prospect can put junk in the opt in box, get your free report, and you
      don't actually gain a "real" subscriber as the address is totally undeliverable.

      2. They could put a real email in the box that ISN'T their own. Then, some
      unsuspecting person gets your email, reports it as spam, which it actually IS
      because they never agreed to receiving anything from you, and then your AR
      service cancels your account if you get enough of these. With confirmed opt
      in, if there IS a complaint, at least you can go to your AR service and say,
      "Look, this is the email I sent, this is my opt in page, explicitly pointing out
      what they're getting, and this is the option for confirmation on my list, being
      one of confirmed opt in."

      Doing THAT, you have less of a chance of getting your account closed than
      if you used unconfirmed opt in. Aweber themselves strongly suggests using
      confirmed opt in.

      For me, the risks of unconfirmed, not to mention all the junk you get,
      outweigh the problem of confirmation emails not being delivered.

      Again, there is no right or wrong. This is just my personal preference and
      the reasons why I build my lists in this manner.

      Do as you best see fit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Manie Amari
    As we are on the subject can anyone clarify if it's true that your auto responder

    company you're with will restrict or even ban your account if you receive a large number

    of complaints when you use single optin?
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingMinded
    There are pros and cons with each approach. Testing is really the only way to know what actually works best for your efforts.
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  • Profile picture of the author retsced
    Single opt in all the way. I think it's something like a 30% decrease in subscribers when using double opt in. I don't know about you but I'd much rather not make an assumption as to why 30% wouldn't confirm in the first place. Sure you are going to get more useless subscribers when using SOI, but at 30%, I doubt very, VERY much all of those people will NOT buy from you at some point, providing you offer value.

    With everything though, you need to test this for yourself and NOT make the assumptions many clearly do on this thread. If your goal is to build a list and blast them with crappy offer after offer, then your complaints are going to be pretty high anyway. If you have valuable content that helps the audience you are targeting, then it's just common sense in my opinion to use SOI.

    After a while you can just delete or reconnect with those useless subs that don't open your emails.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    I've been testing single vs. double opt in extensively for a year or so.

    I decided on single opt in.

    Why?

    Because you won't get "less complaints" - People will typically complain no matter what.

    And in reality, complaints are the only feasible reason that someone would rationally want double opt in.



    This is the product of my own research though, I suggest doing your own.
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    • Profile picture of the author blue786
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      I've been testing single vs. double opt in extensively for a year or so.

      I decided on single opt in.

      Why?

      Because you won't get "less complaints" - People will typically complain no matter what.

      And in reality, complaints are the only feasible reason that someone would rationally want double opt in.



      This is the product of my own research though, I suggest doing your own.

      great do visit my solution by clicking here @
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  • Profile picture of the author bloggerd
    I use double optin on most of my sites some i also use single optin, but prefer double if the visitor realy wants the product then he will go through the steps, if they cant even be bothered to confirm there email then there aint much hope of them buying anything
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  • Profile picture of the author john Roberts
    @Sarevok... Yeah that's what i have been testing also.. I have the same results as you were saying
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Batty
    Over the last 3 years I've migrated to single opt-ins for all my lists.
    And I use monetized solo ads (which cover the lions share of the costs) for traffic.
    Much faster, much less time to get started making money.
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  • Profile picture of the author CanadaSEOguy
    so what is the best software to use to capture and manage the list?

    Are there any vendors that make a simple rectangle shaped ad that I can use on my site to collect emails?
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