Why you need to be in Southeast Asia

216 replies
Online marketing can seem like such a struggle sometimes, even when you're doing "well." But the view is lopsided because you earn in a strong currency (dollars, EUROS, pounds, AUD) and yet you spend in that same currency, so you really have to bust your butt.

However, if you're even making $800US online, even if it's by offering services, you need to buy a plane ticket out to Thailand ASAP. $800 US is a comfortable wage here...

You'll find that you can work a lot less, enjoy life a lot more and still save money if you earn in a strong currency.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm in this game so that I can actually ENJOY my life, hang out with cute chicks, drink some beer, play guitar, chill on the beach, train jiu jitsu and whatever else floats YOUR boat.

In the "west", you have to earn a disproportionate income to live like a human being. But if you can leverage your currency, you'll find that life has a lot more to offer than just 24/7 hustle.

Just to put it in perspective, I was in Miami Beach prior to coming out to Thailand and I paid $1200 US for an apartment, probably $600 for food a month, and some other random expenses. I basically broke even each month, spending about $3000/mo.

Here's I'm spending about $800/mo, work less, go on day trips to interesting places, hang out more with cool people and travelers and generally work to live rather than live to work.

This isn't a "look at me and how cool I am because I'm in Asia" thread. It's a "look at YOU, wouldn't you rather be living a nice lifestyle for a lot less" thread.

Any questions? Will be happy to answer. Peace -Vic
#asia #southeast
  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Fantastic post.

    This is one of the key aspects of The 4-Hour Work Week that many overlook. Throughout the book he talks about leveraging your money by moving somewhere with a lower cost (but not necessarily standard) of living. That is why you want a hands-off "muse" that will run no matter where you are or what you are doing.

    Are you open to visitors?

    Mahlon
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    • Profile picture of the author LillySage
      I've been seriously thinking about doing this...either there or possibly south america (someplace like Chile possibly).

      Chile has a great startup scene...the government recently started the "Startup Chile" program that basically pays you to start businesses there...not an investment, not a loan, a flat out grant of like 40K to start a business there.

      Of course, you have to sign up and be approved...but it looks awesome.

      It seems like there are simply more and more opportunities abroad these days while the US increases taxes, regulations, and nonsense...
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        • Profile picture of the author curly sue
          $800 can't get me through a week in london! just enough to pay week's rent ..lol

          i believe the term used is Geo-arbitrage eg. earning in a high currency yet living at low cost. Also used to refer to outsourcing to low income countries
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        • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
          Originally Posted by AlexanderBeloev View Post

          In my country the average pension is $200 per month and the average salary is $550.
          Nice city you're from. Your countries Banista's are very tasty.

          Patrick
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      • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
        my buddy is in the startup chile program right now. I may go visit. Heard good things about that country. Beaches and snow skiing.....


        Originally Posted by LillySage View Post

        I've been seriously thinking about doing this...either there or possibly south america (someplace like Chile possibly).

        Chile has a great startup scene...the government recently started the "Startup Chile" program that basically pays you to start businesses there...not an investment, not a loan, a flat out grant of like 40K to start a business there.

        Of course, you have to sign up and be approved...but it looks awesome.

        It seems like there are simply more and more opportunities abroad these days while the US increases taxes, regulations, and nonsense...
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    wow great post. I have heard good things about the region, nice to have an honest perspective. And your detailed explanation of cute chicks, playing guitar, and sitting on the beach are nice incentives. Surely you could live a better lifestyle over there for less money
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    Well personally I wouldn't leave my country for another just because I can buy more things over there. The circumstances would have to be really bad for me to leave my home.

    Anyway, your post is good and informative.
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  • Profile picture of the author gonzotrucker
    That is my plan. I just came back to the USA from the Philippines. I'm still not earning $800 yet but I'm halfway there. When I get to $800 I'm out of here forever.
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  • Profile picture of the author madstan
    Funny I was thinking almost the exact same thing this morning except in Mexico. Wondering if interest rates are higher there.

    Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

    Online marketing can seem like such a struggle sometimes, even when you're doing "well." But the view is lopsided because you earn in a strong currency (dollars, EUROS, pounds, AUD) and yet you spend in that same currency, so you really have to bust your butt.

    However, if you're even making $800US online, even if it's by offering services, you need to buy a plane ticket out to Thailand ASAP. $800 US is a comfortable wage here...

    You'll find that you can work a lot less, enjoy life a lot more and still save money if you earn in a strong currency.

    I don't know about you guys, but I'm in this game so that I can actually ENJOY my life, hang out with cute chicks, drink some beer, play guitar, chill on the beach, train jiu jitsu and whatever else floats YOUR boat.

    In the "west", you have to earn a disproportionate income to live like a human being. But if you can leverage your currency, you'll find that life has a lot more to offer than just 24/7 hustle.

    Just to put it in perspective, I was in Miami Beach prior to coming out to Thailand and I paid $1200 US for an apartment, probably $600 for food a month, and some other random expenses. I basically broke even each month, spending about $3000/mo.

    Here's I'm spending about $800/mo, work less, go on day trips to interesting places, hang out more with cool people and travelers and generally work to live rather than live to work.

    This isn't a "look at me and how cool I am because I'm in Asia" thread. It's a "look at YOU, wouldn't you rather be living a nice lifestyle for a lot less" thread.

    Any questions? Will be happy to answer. Peace -Vic
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  • Profile picture of the author donhx
    Well, I lived outside the US for 10 years. There were lots of good things about it, but you MUST continue to earn in the US economy. If you don't earn US dollars (for any reason including those out of your control), you become dependent on the local economy, and that is a killer.

    This all sounds good going in, but my advice is to look before you leap. I came back to the US after 10 years and felt I had made a mistake being gone for so long.
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    • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
      Nice post and I agree 100%

      Never been to Thailand, but would like to at least visit 1 day.

      Since I don´t speak Thai, but do speak Spanish fluently, I chose Peru. And the food, Pisco and women are top notch !

      $800 a month here is fairly good, not great though. With $1,500 a month you can live very, very comfortably here in Lima.


      Originally Posted by donhx View Post

      Well, I lived outside the US for 10 years. There were lots of good things about it, but you MUST continue to earn in the US economy. If you don't earn US dollars (for any reason including those out of your control), you become dependent on the local economy, and that is a killer.

      This all sounds good going in, but my advice is to look before you leap. I came back to the US after 10 years and felt I had made a mistake being gone for so long.
      Or...

      Use your earnings from I.M. and buy/build a house or apartment(s).

      I built one, and now live rent-free / mortgage free. That is a huge benefit.

      Now I am in the process of building another apartment for the purpose of getting monthly rent from tenants. So I will be getting income from the local economy.

      My fiancee (born and raised in Lima) also earns from the local economy and does pretty well herself so we pool our resources.

      We also find deals on eBay on makeup and clothing, mainly from Hong Kong, sometimes from the good old USA (things that are not available here, or if they are, are very expensive here) and have them shipped here, then re-sell for a profit.

      It can be done. I do admit I have a big advantage by being with a girl who was born and raised here though... Not everyone has that advantage.

      Great post !
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        Originally Posted by greenowl123 View Post

        Since I don´t speak Thai, but do speak Spanish fluently, I chose Peru. And the food, Pisco and women are top notch !
        Lima is awesome and you're right about the food, women and pisco. The ceviche is amazing. Peru gastronomy is arguably the best in the world. Last visit we did the sunday buffet at Costa Verde, dinner at La Rosa Nautica, Brujas de Cachiche and ceviche lunch at Segundo Muelle. Everything was amazing!

        Originally Posted by greenowl123 View Post

        $800 a month here is fairly good, not great though. With $1,500 a month you can live very, very comfortably here in Lima.
        Well my sister in law lives in San Isidro, Lima (a very nice area) in a beautiful apartment with a live-in maid but not for those numbers. She requires about 3,000 but I'm talking about living like a queen with maid, gardener, drivers, etc and basically never lifting a finger.

        Originally Posted by greenowl123 View Post

        I do admit I have a big advantage by being with a girl who was born and raised here though... Not everyone has that advantage.
        I've got the same. My girl is a Limeña also and it is on our list of places to move or retire to since she already has the passport. Traffic in Lima is terrible though. Let's keep in touch as I'll be there in a few months. Maybe we can grab a bite in Panchitas or a pisco sour at Haiti?
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        • That's why service providers in the US and in other countries in the West charge higher rates, and why businesses based in those countries also have higher monthly and annual targets for their higher priced products and service offers.


          If you're earning $6000/month in California as an employee, then that $6000 can buy in California the same things that $2000 can buy in the Philippines. So, if you're earning $6000/month as a service provider or remote employee in the Philippines, then that means your $6000 can buy in the Philippines the same things that $18000 can buy in California. However:


          You also get in most developing countries a third of the services (in terms of value) given by the governments and private institutions of most Western countries. For instance, you get government and private insurance in the Philippines that's about three times lower in value when compared to the government and private insurance value you get from most Western countries, primarily because you're also paying around three times lower premiums in the Philippines. On the other hand, my cousin in California (he works as an IT specialist for a real estate company) said tech products and services are three times cheaper in California than in Manila. This means there are other factors to consider, especially things that could significantly affect your prefered lifestyle, before moving from a Western country to a developing country and vice-versa.
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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        Originally Posted by greenowl123 View Post

        Nice post and I agree 100%

        Never been to Thailand, but would like to at least visit 1 day.

        Since I don´t speak Thai, but do speak Spanish fluently, I chose Peru. And the food, Pisco and women are top notch !

        $800 a month here is fairly good, not great though. With $1,500 a month you can live very, very comfortably here in Lima.




        Or...

        Use your earnings from I.M. and buy/build a house or apartment(s).

        I built one, and now live rent-free / mortgage free. That is a huge benefit.

        Now I am in the process of building another apartment for the purpose of getting monthly rent from tenants. So I will be getting income from the local economy.

        My fiancee (born and raised in Lima) also earns from the local economy and does pretty well herself so we pool our resources.

        We also find deals on eBay on makeup and clothing, mainly from Hong Kong, sometimes from the good old USA (things that are not available here, or if they are, are very expensive here) and have them shipped here, then re-sell for a profit.

        It can be done. I do admit I have a big advantage by being with a girl who was born and raised here though... Not everyone has that advantage.

        Great post !
        Peru might just be my favorite of the SA countries. Lima is great as soon as you get the heck away from Pizza st.

        Some of the clubs out at Larcomar were pretty good. The one I really liked was closed I'm told. I don't recall the name of it but it was close to that really upscale club. Sorry for not remembering the names but when you cross time with alcohol related memories it gets fuzzy.

        Personally I really like Arequipa. A LOT less expensive than Lima that's for sure.

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  • Profile picture of the author edhuu
    luckily I'm from Indonesia, which is about the same like there in Thailand.. you can also enjoy your life with $800/mo here.. try to visit Indonesia, maybe you'll like it man!
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    • Profile picture of the author yugaeko
      Originally Posted by edhuu View Post

      luckily I'm from Indonesia, which is about the same like there in Thailand.. you can also enjoy your life with $800/mo here.. try to visit Indonesia, maybe you'll like it man!
      you can enjoy the luxurious lifestyle with $800..
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  • Profile picture of the author perfect
    That is an interesting post, I'm getting a new ideal from your thread. Thanks for sharing. Everything isn't work, work, work....
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  • Profile picture of the author Summer1
    Your story reminds me of my life experience. I am from south asia myself, and married with a European, and currently living in Europe since 6 years ago.

    Your story is almost similar to my husband's. When he was younger (under 30 years old) he went to south east Asia to work as an engineer. He got nice salary, and living cost was cheaper, and every single thing can be bought with money, I had my diriving licence and I couldn't even drive, just because I paid for $20 :-)

    6 years later, he quit his job, and started his new business, 1/2 first years run well but then business goes down, and due family's stuff he had to come back to Europe.

    From this story of my own, I guess you should be okay, if you can have that amount of money for the rest of your life.

    BUT, how about if one day, you can't earn that money? you definitely don't want to do local job with local salary, and you have to pay bills, and eat.

    If you come back to your country, you'll be missing a lot of things while you were gone, probably also some of your old friends.

    Then if you want to work in your country again, it will be tough because you don't have "enough" working experience in your country.

    In the first years living in Europe for an Asian was terrible, but after 6 years, living in Europe is expensive but things are better organized, health, kids, law, etc.

    I feel even scary to go back (even visiting for holiday) when I read a news, police can trap you having drugs (even if you never touched them), and jail you for years if you don't have money to pay them.

    Well, this story won't happen to everyone for sure, good luck to you.

    Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      I lived in Cancun, Mexico for almost a year. I plan on going back, but only 6 months/year.

      As others have mentioned, there are good and bad things about living abroad. You know how people say, "If you think America sucks, try living in another country"?

      Well, I did and in some ways they're right and in some ways they're wrong.

      Some specifics for Cancun, Mexico

      Cancun is NOT typical from an expense point of view. It is fairly expensive to live in Cancun if you live in the Hotel Zone, where I did. If you live in the city, it can be much cheaper. I knew people paying about $400/mo for rent but you wouldn't catch me dead where they were living.

      My condo:
      ~2,000 sq ft 2bdrm 2-1/2 bath
      10th floor Maralago
      Marble floors, 2 covered balconies, one off the master overlooking lagoon, one much larger overlooking Caribbean
      Excellent security
      Cost: $25,000 pesos/month or a about $2,000 USD

      Utilities
      Electricity - ~$150/mo in summer
      Telmex Internet/Phone 10mb - $99USD / mo with free calls to USA
      Telcel phone - I had my Samsung Galaxy unlocked from AT&T for $20 and then bought the Amigo Plan which is a pay as you go plan. You just recharge it at any convenience store. Texts are very expensive. Minutes were cheap. Data was 500 pesos /month which is about $40.

      Car
      2006 Ford Explorer paid $6,000 (in general, cars are a bit more than in US)
      Full-coverage Insurance - $600/yr
      Gas - EXPENSIVE! Close to $5/gallon

      Groceries
      If you're used to typical american grocery stores, you'll be shocked in Cancun. Even though we have a Walmart grocery, the variety is much less. For example, only 1 type of jelly and peanut butter. If you like strong or exotic cheeses like gorgonzola, blue, etc, forget it. Very hard to find anything but white cheese.

      The beef is awful. It looks good but has no flavor. But it is cheap. I bought ribeyes for about $3.50/lb but no matter how I cooked them, they never tasted like American beef.
      Before I left, I found an American beef store but you paid through the nose for it.

      Overall, grocery pricing is not bad.

      Health
      This is where Mexico really shines. 49 years old, smoker, I got great health insurance for $94/month with prescription plan. My girlfriend walked into Hospiten Cancun and got an MRI for $200 cash. Her deductible in the states is over $2,000 for the same MRI.

      The Bad
      It's not the USA. You have to get used to machine gun toting guys. We drove to Hol Box, and island about 100 miles from Cancun. We passed through 5 military checkpoints. We were never stopped but it's still scary to people not used to it.

      The Myths
      I got so sick of people telling me how dangerous Mexico is. It's a huge country and parts of it are dangerous, such as the border towns. Even Cancun is dangerous for a certain class of people.
      For example, right after we moved there, 2 drug dealers got their heads cut off by Los Zetas for dealing in their territory. But they have a hands-off policy on Americans. If you don't deal or pimp, you'll never even know los Zetas run things down there.
      The last thing they want is to scare off all the tourists aka money and they sure don't want the FBI down there investigating things.

      Summary
      You won't really save much money living in Cancun compared to cheaper areas of the USA, but you will live in luxury on one of the most beautiful oceans in world.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        The Myths
        I got so sick of people telling me how dangerous Mexico is.

        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        The Bad
        It's not the USA. You have to get used to machine gun toting guys. We drove to Hol Box, and island about 100 miles from Cancun. We passed through 5 military checkpoints. We were never stopped but it's still scary to people not used to it.


        It's a huge country and parts of it are dangerous, such as the border towns. Even Cancun is dangerous for a certain class of people.
        For example, right after we moved there, 2 drug dealers got their heads cut off by Los Zetas for dealing in their territory.
        (By "certain class of people" is meant
        "people who are not rich tourists".)


        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        But they have a hands-off policy on Americans. If you don't deal or pimp, you'll never even know los Zetas run things down there.
        The last thing they want is to scare off all the tourists aka money and they sure don't want the FBI down there investigating things.
        I missed the part where that makes it okay
        to give them my money??
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        • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          (By "certain class of people" is meant
          "people who are not rich tourists".)
          Wrong. Americans. Believe it or not, Cancun is largely a blue collar vacation spot anymore. Not many "rich tourists" go there.

          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          I missed the part where that makes it okay to give them my money??
          I don't even get what you're asking. You're not giving them money if you're not buying drugs or whores, other than a little skim from the night clubs. If you're against that, there's 1,000 places in the states you better not go to.

          The bottom line is, Cancun is not dangerous to an American tourist minding his/her own business and just having fun on vacation. Statistically, Orlando is more dangerous.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
            Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

            Wrong. Americans.
            My wife was from Monterrey. We lived and traveled through
            Mexico for over 6 years-- including several trips to see her
            cousins in Cancun.


            Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

            Believe it or not, Cancun is largely a blue collar vacation spot anymore. Not many "rich tourists" go there.
            I didn't communicate my point very clearly there, did I?
            Compared to the locals, "blue collar" tourists are rich.
            (Of course, that is true for most of Mexico.)

            Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

            I don't even get what you're asking. You're not giving them money if you're not buying drugs or whores, other than a little skim from the night clubs. If you're against that, there's 1,000 places in the states you better not go to.
            The Kingpins tend to live in Cancun, and they have plenty
            of legal businesses as well. Their vile fingers are in everything,
            and the citizens of Cancun do not live the happy lives they pretend
            to for the tourists.


            Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

            The bottom line is, Cancun is not dangerous to an American tourist minding his/her own business and just having fun on vacation. Statistically, Orlando is more dangerous.
            Unless they have to deal with the police at any point during their
            vacation... Anyway, I know there are a lot of blogs and websites claiming
            this right now, and perhaps your experiences there were different
            than my own because I wasn't a tourist.


            In any case, the bottom line is that before anyone gets the idea
            that moving to a 3rd World country is going to allow them to
            live like a King/Queen, they had better do some real research
            and not go off what they learn from the Internet.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
              Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

              The Kingpins tend to live in Cancun, and they have plenty
              of legal businesses as well. Their vile fingers are in everything,
              and the citizens of Cancun do not live the happy lives they pretend
              to for the tourists.
              I lived in Cancun for almost a year and spent a LOT of time in the city, not Zona Hotelera. I know about the "regular" people of Cancun. I worked, shopped, ate and partied in the city of Cancun, not Zona Hotelera. I had many employees whom I took to their homes at the end of the workday. I saw how and where they lived.

              Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

              Unless they have to deal with the police at any point during their
              vacation... Anyway, I know there are a lot of blogs and websites claiming
              this right now, and perhaps your experiences there were different
              than my own because I wasn't a tourist.
              You're being a bit vague for me. I DID deal with the police on several occasions. I didn't have any issues with them, no mistreatment, no problems that 200-300 pesos wouldn't solve. In general, they were very polite. And for the record, my girlfriend is Peruvian, not white, though she is now an American citizen also.

              As I said, I wasn't a tourist either. I had a resident visa and lived there.

              Perhaps you can be more clear. It seems to me that you're saying, simply by living in Cancun, you're condoning or participating in/with Mexican gangs. If that is what you're suggesting, you're an idiot. You can't live anywhere without contributing to crime. Ever been to Vegas? Anyway, I don't think you are an idiot which is why I'm asking you to clarify.

              Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

              In any case, the bottom line is that before anyone gets the idea
              that moving to a 3rd World country is going to allow them to
              live like a King/Queen, they had better do some real research
              and not go off what they learn from the Internet.
              Mexico, while not perfect, is no 3rd world country. And I'm not some blowhard talking out my ass. I lived there for almost a year. But you're advice is correct. There's no substitute for experience.

              To venture back to the original subject, I wouldn't live in Southeast Asia even if I could for $50/month.
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              • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
                One respecting human being who values his/her life will never move to Mexico.

                Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                I lived in Cancun for almost a year and spent a LOT of time in the city, not Zona Hotelera. I know about the "regular" people of Cancun. I worked, shopped, ate and partied in the city of Cancun, not Zona Hotelera. I had many employees whom I took to their homes at the end of the workday. I saw how and where they lived.



                You're being a bit vague for me. I DID deal with the police on several occasions. I didn't have any issues with them, no mistreatment, no problems that 200-300 pesos wouldn't solve. In general, they were very polite. And for the record, my girlfriend is Peruvian, not white, though she is now an American citizen also.

                As I said, I wasn't a tourist either. I had a resident visa and lived there.

                Perhaps you can be more clear. It seems to me that you're saying, simply by living in Cancun, you're condoning or participating in/with Mexican gangs. If that is what you're suggesting, you're an idiot. You can't live anywhere without contributing to crime. Ever been to Vegas? Anyway, I don't think you are an idiot which is why I'm asking you to clarify.



                Mexico, while not perfect, is no 3rd world country. And I'm not some blowhard talking out my ass. I lived there for almost a year. But you're advice is correct. There's no substitute for experience.

                To venture back to the original subject, I wouldn't live in Southeast Asia even if I could for $50/month.
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                • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
                  Originally Posted by BarberShop View Post

                  One respecting human being who values his/her life will never move to Mexico.
                  Tell me about your experience living there. If you don't have any, than you don't have a clue.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
                    Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                    Tell me about your experience living there. If you don't have any, than you don't have a clue.
                    I think the person is watching too much of the news about the drug cartels I lived in Belize for 16 years spent a lot of time in Mexico, Chetumal,Cancun, Playa etc and never once had any issue whatsoever.

                    I think that those that don't travel too much tend to be influenced more by television shows and news reports than the real reality of the countries in question.

                    I love Mexico was there in September and may be visiting again in April on my way to Belize, local food is great

                    Gaz
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                    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
                      Originally Posted by Gaz Cooper View Post

                      I think the person is watching too much of the news about the drug cartels I lived in Belize for 16 years spent a lot of time in Mexico, Chetumal,Cancun, Playa etc and never once had any issue whatsoever.
                      Gaz
                      Belize? BELIZE? Oh my god...you must be crazy. Isn't that the country with old men and teenage girlfriends, guys who cook bath salts, and horribly corrupt politicians!?!

                      Sorry...I couldn't resist! :-)
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                      • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
                        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

                        Belize? BELIZE? Oh my god...you must be crazy. Isn't that the country with old men and teenage girlfriends, guys who cook bath salts, and horribly corrupt politicians!?!

                        Sorry...I couldn't resist! :-)
                        Haha yes the exact same place in fact my house I sold in December is about 5 minutes up the beach from Johns house and I also have interest in a hotel in the same area.

                        Belize has certainly changed since i arrived there in 1992

                        Gaz Cooper
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                        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
                          Originally Posted by Gaz Cooper View Post

                          Haha yes the exact same place in fact my house I sold in December is about 5 minutes up the beach from Johns house and I also have interest in a hotel in the same area.

                          Belize has certainly changed since i arrived there in 1992

                          Gaz Cooper
                          Wow...crazy stuff! I've never been, but Belize looks amazingly beautiful, and the whole McAfee thing just makes me want to go even more! hehe

                          You seem like a cool guy, Gaz...it's a pity we didn't get a chance to meet up while I was there last year. Funny enough, I follow Glen from ViperChill a bit. I found out (after I left) that he was staying in the exact same hotel I was when I was there and I missed meeting up with him, hehe.

                          I'm hoping I'll get out there again this year...likely in Sep/Oct though.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
                Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                I lived in Cancun for almost a year and spent a LOT of time in the city, not Zona Hotelera. I know about the "regular" people of Cancun. I worked, shopped, ate and partied in the city of Cancun, not Zona Hotelera. I had many employees whom I took to their homes at the end of the workday. I saw how and where they lived.



                You're being a bit vague for me. I DID deal with the police on several occasions. I didn't have any issues with them, no mistreatment, no problems that 200-300 pesos wouldn't solve. In general, they were very polite. And for the record, my girlfriend is Peruvian, not white, though she is now an American citizen also.

                As I said, I wasn't a tourist either. I had a resident visa and lived there.

                Perhaps you can be more clear. It seems to me that you're saying, simply by living in Cancun, you're condoning or participating in/with Mexican gangs. If that is what you're suggesting, you're an idiot. You can't live anywhere without contributing to crime. Ever been to Vegas? Anyway, I don't think you are an idiot which is why I'm asking you to clarify.



                Mexico, while not perfect, is no 3rd world country. And I'm not some blowhard talking out my ass. I lived there for almost a year. But you're advice is correct. There's no substitute for experience.

                To venture back to the original subject, I wouldn't live in Southeast Asia even if I could for $50/month.

                Different experiences then. Maybe we were there
                at different times, or just knew different people
                in different situations. It's not a small village,
                afterall.

                Yeah a little vague... Don't really want to derail
                the conversation any more than I already have.
                (Trying to stick to my own New Year's Resolution)

                Ultimately, taking the almighty USD and living
                somewhere else sounds great at first, and for
                some people it is. But, there may be a lot of
                trade-offs not advertised on the Internet.

                Especially for IMers... Consider that most of the 200+
                countries you might be thinking of moving to do
                not have very stable electric grids-- Never mind
                high speed Internet!


                Of course, that doesn't change the fact that I
                am considering both Colombia and Argentina
                as my new winter vacation spots...
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                • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
                  Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post


                  Of course, that doesn't change the fact that I
                  am considering both Colombia and Argentina
                  as my new winter vacation spots...
                  Colombia would probably be a good choice. The economy there is booming right now, as well as in Chile and Peru. Some of the most gorgeous women in the world there too.

                  Not sure about Argentina though...their economy is not good at the moment. I would consider their neighbor Montevideo, Uruguay before Argentina.
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                • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

                  I am considering both Colombia and Argentina
                  as my new winter vacation spots...
                  Hmm, interesting - I have to say that I'd consider their "neighbor" Ecuador way in front of either of those two, myself.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
                    Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                    Hmm, interesting - I have to say that I'd consider their "neighbor" Ecuador way in front of either of those two, myself.
                    Really? Their president is a socialist who routinely sues newspapers and imprisons journalists. Not a good place for a writer, Alexa.

                    He is also best friends Evo Morales who said, "The worst enemy of humanity is capitalism. " and Chavez who is a raving socialist lunatic.

                    Their economy is terrible, their infrastructure unstable. I wouldn't even visit Ecuador.

                    Colombia would be excellent. I've been to Bogota 8-10X. It's a modern city, cheap to live in and high speed Internet is widely accessible. And the weather is amazing. Basically around 72 degrees year round, though it rains a lot. Cartagena... not so nice.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
                      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                      Really? Their president is a socialist who routinely sues newspapers and imprisons journalists. Not a good place for a writer, Alexa.

                      He is also best friends Evo Morales who said, "The worst enemy of humanity is capitalism. " and Chavez who is a raving socialist lunatic.

                      Their economy is terrible, their infrastructure unstable. I wouldn't even visit Ecuador.

                      Colombia would be excellent. I've been to Bogota 8-10X. It's a modern city, cheap to live in and high speed Internet is widely accessible. And the weather is amazing. Basically around 72 degrees year round, though it rains a lot. Cartagena... not so nice.
                      Well, their economy is US Dollar based (yes they use the dollar). They don't have a national debt anymore Here are two quotes from Mike Adams of Breaking News from Dec 2008 "Today, Ecuador's President Correa declared Ecuador's foreign bond debt "illegal" and said he wouldn't pay it. A December 15th interest payment of $30.6 million will simply not be paid."

                      "

                      And that's the whole point of Correa's strategy, most likely. Ecuador doesn't want to turn into a McCitiBankStarBucksWalMartBigPharma cesspool of debt like the one that's been created in the United States. Correa wants Ecuador to have its own financial independence, and to do that, it needs to break ties with the exploitive western imperialist "banksters" who invade nations and destroy their finances as a matter of habit. Read the book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins if you don't believe me."
                      As far as infrastructure I don't know what you are referring to: The city of Cuenca just broke ground on the most modern light rail system in all of Latin America.

                      The internet does need some improvement that's for sure. The fastest speeds are only 6mbps on cable connections.


                      They were voted as having the best value healthcare dollar for dollar in all of South America in 2010.


                      I completely agree about Bogota (
                      I also like Medellin, but the real estate prices are just going crazy there).


                      But yeah Bogota is nice that's for sure.


                      Patrick



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                      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
                        Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

                        Well, their economy is US Dollar based (yes they use the dollar). They don't have a national debt anymore

                        Wrong, they just borrowed $2B from China and have "pre-sold" oil for another $1B. As you point out, they defaulted on their debt owed to US companies. That's why they have to borrow from China. Their economy is having good growth but nothing compared to Peru and Colombia.

                        Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

                        As far as infrastructure I don't know what you are referring to: The city of Cuenca just broke ground on the most modern light rail system in all of Latin America.

                        I'm referring to streets, communications, etc. Not really into light rail but this was not a major point. The streets of Bogota are terrible... juecos everywhere.

                        Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

                        The internet does need some improvement that's for sure. The fastest speeds are only 6mbps on cable connections.

                        They were voted as having the best value healthcare dollar for dollar in all of South America in 2010.

                        I know nothing of their healthcare. I do know Colombia, Mexico and Peru have all increased prices due to medical travel.

                        [quote=Enfusia;7676359] I completely agree about Bogota (I also like Medellin, but the real estate prices are just going crazy there).

                        But yeah Bogota is nice that's for sure.
                        [
                        /quote]

                        If they only had an ocean, I'd live there.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
                    Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                    Hmm, interesting - I have to say that I'd consider their "neighbor" Ecuador way in front of either of those two, myself.
                    Love Equador been 3 times (on my way to Galapagos Islands) great place inexpensive and a nice feel to it not to mention great deals on Leather goods

                    Gaz
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                    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
                      Originally Posted by BarberShop View Post

                      Some things can be said about Quality of Life (not living to which Vancouver is top). Singapore is right at the bottom. The most unhappy nation in the world. Philippines is right at the very top. The happiest nation. Legacy of the Spanish "present-oriented" culture.

                      So life expectancy is misleading. 78 years in America is only a positive if that extra 10 years is not lived in sustained misery of watching the world you know fall apart. Economic uncertainties all around you, your government playing roulette on your social security & medical care, watching your children struggle financially because their jobs were outsourced to the Philippines and your grandchildren graduate only to meet unemployment and a lifetime of debt.


                      I agree with what you're saying, somewhat.

                      Life expectancy is not misleading, however. It's just the average length of life someone lives in a certain place. That's all I was talking about. I was simply disputing a simple factual statement someone made which was inaccurate.

                      Quality of life is different, but it's really hard to measure as there are different studies giving different indications.

                      One person will have a great quality of life in the US compared to another country because of their attitude, their comfort and happiness where they are, while others won't and sure, may be happier in PI. Not everyone is the same.

                      But he said that people live longer in the Philippines, but I was just saying that isn't true because it's simply, not true. It's his impression because his health improved when he moved there.

                      He may very well live longer if he lives in Philippines compared to the West but should be aware of the facts.

                      I don't think the US is the best placed in the world to live for a lot of reasons, and prefer a tropical place, myself.

                      Also, on what study have seen Philippines ranked at the very top for happiness?

                      The famous one I've always seen ranks Scandinavian countries at the very top and Philippines way in the middle of the pack, somewhere like 90th place. There was a new one called Happy Planet Index, which placed Philippines at 25, still not the very top but higher than the other study. Of course they use different criteria.

                      And in this one, Singapore is 19:

                      The Happiest (And Saddest) Countries In The World - Forbes

                      Originally Posted by Stevie C View Post

                      Life expectancy in Thailand is lower than the USA or Europe due to a lot more people dying in motorbike accidents, rural Thai's not getting the right medical treatment, a lack of knowledge regarding food hygiene and a lot of other factors that would not impact on an expat westerners lifestyle..

                      I would like to see a study on Expat life expectancy in these countries, for sure drinking in excess would lead to many an Expat's early demise as would the risk taking nature that is likely to be inherent within them.

                      Many like myself need to work and have no interest in sitting on a bar stool all day. Many of us have started families in these countries lead a very similar lifestyle as back home apart from it's warmer, cheaper, friendlier and more fun!


                      Yes there are a lot of accidents in Thailand but frankly, there are a lot of accidents per capita in the U.S., as well. That's just one factor, among many. And many expats die on motorbikes in Thailand! Read many stories about it in my time there, one who worked at my school had his leg ripped off and bled to death, and he was on a motorbike. So yep safer to stay in cars but many chose not to do so.

                      And some expats may like to live in rural areas. In fact many do. Not all expats are rich and can get the best medical care, either, and I've seen many who had to make due with the provincial government hospitals.

                      As for expat life expectancy in Thailand, I'd be surprised if it's very high. It's been proven to be one of the deadliest destinations for tourists from Britain and other countries, and we're talking per capita.

                      But I agree you can remove many risk factors if you are smart, through lifestyle choices and have enough money, of course. I don't disagree with that, and like I've said I enjoy living in a place like Thailand more than the U.S., no question.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
                        Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

                        I agree with what you're saying, somewhat.

                        Life expectancy is not misleading, however. It's just the average length of life someone lives in a certain place. That's all I was talking about. I was simply disputing a simple factual statement someone made which was inaccurate.

                        Quality of life is different, but it's really hard to measure as there are different studies giving different indications.

                        One person will have a great quality of life in the US compared to another country because of their attitude, their comfort and happiness where they are, while others won't and sure, may be happier in PI. Not everyone is the same.

                        But he said that people live longer in the Philippines, but I was just saying that isn't true because it's simply, not true. It's his impression because his health improved when he moved there.

                        He may very well live longer if he lives in Philippines compared to the West but should be aware of the facts.

                        I don't think the US is the best placed in the world to live for a lot of reasons, and prefer a tropical place, myself.

                        Also, on what study have seen Philippines ranked at the very top for happiness?

                        The famous one I've always seen ranks Scandinavian countries at the very top and Philippines way in the middle of the pack, somewhere like 90th place. There was a new one called Happy Planet Index, which placed Philippines at 25, still not the very top but higher than the other study. Of course they use different criteria.

                        And in this one, Singapore is 19:

                        The Happiest (And Saddest) Countries In The World - Forbes





                        Yes there are a lot of accidents in Thailand but frankly, there are a lot of accidents per capita in the U.S., as well. That's just one factor, among many. And many expats die on motorbikes in Thailand! Read many stories about it in my time there, one who worked at my school had his leg ripped off and bled to death, and he was on a motorbike. So yep safer to stay in cars but many chose not to do so.

                        And some expats may like to live in rural areas. In fact many do. Not all expats are rich and can get the best medical care, either, and I've seen many who had to make due with the provincial government hospitals.

                        As for expat life expectancy in Thailand, I'd be surprised if it's very high. It's been proven to be one of the deadliest destinations for tourists from Britain and other countries, and we're talking per capita.

                        But I agree you can remove many risk factors if you are smart, through lifestyle choices and have enough money, of course. I don't disagree with that, and like I've said I enjoy living in a place like Thailand more than the U.S., no question.
                        Yes all valid points, I have known many expats out here who have died relatively young through motorbike accidents. Having a middle life crisis in Thailand is probably a lot more dangerous than having one back home!
                        As you say a lot of it boils down to lifestyle and acting smart.
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                      • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
                        I agree with you on life expectancy then. He probably saw the stray-dog effect. The United States is very good at hiding their senile population whereas in the Philippines, oh they're every where. There are no senior homes as we know in the US. So seeing millions of these old people probably gave him the impression that people live long there. He is right to live there but argued for the wrong reasons.

                        As requested:

                        Singapore, Hong Kong face happiness deficit | South China Morning Post

                        Happiest Nations on Earth Revealed | Happiness by Country | LiveScience

                        Singapore's Leaders May Not Know

                        Singapore Ranks as Least Emotional Country in the World

                        World Happiness Report


                        Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

                        I agree with what you're saying, somewhat.

                        Life expectancy is not misleading, however. It's just the average length of life someone lives in a certain place. That's all I was talking about. I was simply disputing a simple factual statement someone made which was inaccurate.

                        Quality of life is different, but it's really hard to measure as there are different studies giving different indications.
                        Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

                        One person will have a great quality of life in the US compared to another country because of their attitude, their comfort and happiness where they are, while others won't and sure, may be happier in PI. Not everyone is the same.

                        But he said that people live longer in the Philippines, but I was just saying that isn't true because it's simply, not true. It's his impression because his health improved when he moved there.

                        He may very well live longer if he lives in Philippines compared to the West but should be aware of the facts.

                        Also, on what study have seen Philippines ranked at the very top for happiness?
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  • Profile picture of the author petemcal
    I've heard that adsense income is disproportionately capped in asian countries. For example a CPC paying a publisher £0.60 in the UK would pay £0.25-30 to someone in the east. I'm not sure how much validity there is in this claim; I'm just saying I've heard it on several occasions from VERY talented Indian and Pakistani marketers.

    If I was to move out to a middle/east Asian country I would conduct all my Google related activity through a private UK proxy of VPN just to be safe. I guess if you make your dough via affiliate marketing it doesn't matter as much.

    Glad to hear you're doing well!
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  • Profile picture of the author madstan
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Living in these countries is not all that. If you're young and in good health, fine.

    At the end of the day, these places are not really your "home" unless you marry a local, maybe have children.

    Not to mention things lacking we take for granted such as modern healthcare. What happens if you suffer from cancer, for example? The world's best oncologists do not practise in developing countries, nor can you get affordable access to the best drugs that you need, maybe not even the basic ones.

    And what if something should happen to you? In Thailand, what if a local accuses the "farang" of some crime, slips a few Baht to a policeman, the next thing you find yourself in jail and your embassy refusing to help you.

    A friend of mine was arrested for simply being in the same building as a suspect, his blood was tested and found positive for marijuana metabolites (he did not even smoke any in Thailand) and he was sent to jail.

    If there's one thing I want to avoid more than anything else in these "exotic" countries, it's getting banged up in jail. I've seen too many episodes of "Locked Up/Banged Up Abroad" for me to get a great fear of that!
    lolololololol...lmao :p
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    • Profile picture of the author madstan
      Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

      Is that your best intellectual response? I guess it must be. :rolleyes:

      I was just laughing at how credulous and guileless your previous post appeared to be.
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    • Profile picture of the author icandi
      Great thread !!!
      There are some valid points raised for both sides of the discussion although I am amazed at some of the comments about the "Third World" maybe 20+ years ago some of the comments could be accepted. There are just as many undesirable places to live in the UK (my home country) and the USA, it's not all like the movies would have people believe. When locals here in Malaysia speak of how wonderful it must be in the USA they need to look at the Michael Moore movies to get a balanced view as I remember thinking after watching Roger and Me how depressing it would be to live in Flint, Michigan, I cannot recall even in the poorest parts of Bali or Penang anything so horrible. Also no matter how poor people might be in S.E. Asia - The petty crime rates are nothing here compared to the Western world. Main reason seems to be that there is zero tolerance on Drugs, which was reported to be the biggest factor (feeding the habit) on the increasing crime rates (in the UK at least) I can't speak about the other countries (S. America etc) BUT the thread was entitled "Why you need to be in Southeast Asia" so maybe "The Great American Passport Myth: Why Just 3.5% Of Us Travel Overseas!" could be true after all? FYI - S.E. Asia is made up of just 11 countries marked in green here here .. not sure how Dominican Republic and Columbia, Brazil etc. managed to be relocated..This isn't I'm sure a true picture anymore than the urban myth that only 10% of Americans have a passport. BUT I would recommend travel as it does broaden the mind. That's the problem with stereotyping other countries.



      Having lived in France, Spain and now Malaysia, I moved here for work as the economy in 2007 was so bad in Europe. Despite having no mortgage or debts I sold up and moved out to Asia as it's a growing economy.
      I love the UK but there's no argument that it is a very expensive place to live. When I speak to friends back home they all have been affected in some way by the depressed economy, triple dip recession reported this week. One friend cannot retire for years despite having planned meticulously and with a low risk share portfolio (ironically he's a regional bank manager so not naive) Other skilled people thrown into unemployment and even "safe" government jobs disappeared because of "cut-backs".
      Medical costs here are definitely cheaper and as good quality, from what I understand there as many doctors being sued in the USA as in the UK. Many of the doctors in the UK are from overseas so I don't see the argument about quality of medical care being relevant. As for "developed" I don't see any issues with shopping, transport, electricity supply here (but I am in KL not a village). I think its a case using your own personal experiences and go with your own intuition.

      World's 'best value' countries: Live on less than a grand a month, retire on the cheap and still get endless sun! | Mail Online


      Originally Posted by madstan View Post

      lolololololol...lmao :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken_Stone
        Originally Posted by icandi View Post

        Great thread !!!
        There are some valid points raised for both sides of the discussion although I am amazed at some of the comments about the "Third World" maybe 20+ years ago some of the comments could be accepted. There are just as many undesirable places to live in the UK (my home country) and the USA, it's not all like the movies would have people believe. When locals here in Malaysia speak of how wonderful it must be in the USA they need to look at the Michael Moore movies to get a balanced view as I remember thinking after watching Roger and Me how depressing it would be to live in Flint, Michigan, I cannot recall even in the poorest parts of Bali or Penang anything so horrible. Also no matter how poor people might be in S.E. Asia - The petty crime rates are nothing here compared to the Western world. Main reason seems to be that there is zero tolerance on Drugs, which was reported to be the biggest factor (feeding the habit) on the increasing crime rates (in the UK at least) I can't speak about the other countries (S. America etc) BUT the thread was entitled "Why you need to be in Southeast Asia" so maybe "The Great American Passport Myth: Why Just 3.5% Of Us Travel Overseas!" could be true after all? FYI - S.E. Asia is made up of just 11 countries marked in green here here .. not sure how Dominican Republic and Columbia, Brazil etc. managed to be relocated..This isn't I'm sure a true picture anymore than the urban myth that only 10% of Americans have a passport. BUT I would recommend travel as it does broaden the mind. That's the problem with stereotyping other countries.



        Having lived in France, Spain and now Malaysia, I moved here for work as the economy in 2007 was so bad in Europe. Despite having no mortgage or debts I sold up and moved out to Asia as it's a growing economy.
        I love the UK but there's no argument that it is a very expensive place to live. When I speak to friends back home they all have been affected in some way by the depressed economy, triple dip recession reported this week. One friend cannot retire for years despite having planned meticulously and with a low risk share portfolio (ironically he's a regional bank manager so not naive) Other skilled people thrown into unemployment and even "safe" government jobs disappeared because of "cut-backs".
        Medical costs here are definitely cheaper and as good quality, from what I understand there as many doctors being sued in the USA as in the UK. Many of the doctors in the UK are from overseas so I don't see the argument about quality of medical care being relevant. As for "developed" I don't see any issues with shopping, transport, electricity supply here (but I am in KL not a village). I think its a case using your own personal experiences and go with your own intuition.

        World's 'best value' countries: Live on less than a grand a month, retire on the cheap and still get endless sun! | Mail Online
        I wonder.........

        How many Nay-sayers here even have a Passport?

        I took my wife with me to the USA about 6 months after the 9-11 attacks. Her mother was worried to death about her being in the Big, BAD USA - LOL.....She's never had a passport either.

        I've been to over 40 countries. The two WORST places I've been were Dhaka, Bangladesh, and Sana'a, Yemen.

        The nicest places I've been were San Felipe, Mexico City & Puerta Vallarta, Mexico - Buenos Aires Argentina, & Thailand (I've been everywhere here).

        Dhaka is only a 1 hour or so flight from Bangkok....I couldn't believe the difference.

        The only problem with SE Asia is that it is CROWDED.

        I'd never consider doing business (bar, restaurant etc..) here. The cops will shake you down for sure.

        If you have an online business though, you're good to go.

        As for $800 a month here.......You are living SERIOUSLY on the cheap.

        A single guy can live here pretty comfortably on $2,000 a month.

        My good buddy here has a wife, a 6 year old kid, a $350 per month car payment & pays $600 for rent on a nice 3 bedroom, 3 bath place. Pays about $2,000 a year to put his kid in an International School...They have English speaking teachers there.

        His retirement income is about $3,000 a month. He gets by just fine on that.
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        • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
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            • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
              Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

              To live dangerously means to live. If you don't live dangerously, you don't live.

              Living flowers only in danger. Living never flowers in security; it flowers only in insecurity. If you start getting secure, you become a stagnant pool. Then your energy is no more moving. Then you are afraid, because one never knows how to go into the unknown.

              And why take the risk? The known is more secure. Then you get obsessed with the familiar. You go on getting fed up with it, you are bored with it, you feel miserable in it, but still it seems familiar and comfortable. At least it is known. Unknown creates a trembling in you. The very idea of the unknown and you start feeling unsafe.


              There are only two types of people in the world. People who want to live comfortably -- they are seeking death. They want a comfortable grave. And people who want to live -- they choose to live dangerously, because life thrives only when there is risk. Have you ever gone climbing the mountains? The higher the climb, the fresher you feel, the younger you feel.


              The greater the danger of falling, the bigger the abyss by the side, the more alive you are... between life and death, when you are just hanging between life and death. Then there is no boredom, then there is no dust of the past, no desire for the future. Then the present moment is very sharp like a flame. It is enough. You live in the here and now.


              - OSHO
              Great post.

              Originally Posted by JamesColin View Post

              I also live in Thailand off internet money. I live in what I can call luxury, simply because I couldn't afford similar things in Europe.
              Now I'm not ill, I don't care about local politics, I don't do drugs, etc.

              Of course the worse can happen, but it can also happen anywhere..

              I have only one life, I wanted to taste luxury and good weather, I have done so, now if all this ends, at least I'll have some nice memories.. Those who stay at home all their life, well fine, I don't critisize them, some they stay because they have no choice, and some because they enjoy their life at home and don't want to try another destination. FINE.

              But I also know I'm not the only one here living either from pension or from other income, it is a tourist town, and life is great until now, thank you!
              I think similar to you. I'd rather spend most of my life LIVING it instead of planning for a future that might never come. I've traveled to over 35 countries and I'm only 28, I've lived abroad in multiple countries, I've seen most of the wonders of the modern and natural world and had some many adventures I don't even know where to start.

              Life should be lived NOW...not holding out for better days.

              Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

              Have any of you considered what you'll do when your parents fall into ill health? Many move back home when this happens..
              So instead of going to see the world when they are not ill because they might fall ill in the future I should just stay home forever and wait for them to get ill? Great logic there. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author wesd22
        Yeah the Third World is fine to visit, but to live there instead of the First World?? No way. I've lived in two Third World countries and it's just too much of a hassle (brownouts, crappy internet service, terrible roads, bribes, insane pollution, etc.).

        I'll go there once a year and enjoy their resorts, but living there is a whole different story. Been there, done that.
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        • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
          Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

          Yeah the Third World is fine to visit, but to live there instead of the First World?? No way. I've lived in two Third World countries and it's just too much of a hassle (brownouts, crappy internet service, terrible roads, bribes, insane pollution, etc.).
          So the problem is YOU. You suck at choosing a country to live in.

          What brownouts? I've never experienced any electrical outage.

          What crappy Internet? The best Internet connections are in Asia.

          Terrible roads? Where do you go? The village? A town?

          Bribes? You mean like providing YOU the regular person the chance what's only afforded the rich in America?

          Insane pollution? You are contradicting yourself now. It is impossible to have "insane pollution" in countries you portray as so under-developed, they don't even have electricity and roads. Silly guy. In the top 10 most populated air in the world, none are Southeast Asian countries. You know who's on the list? Your beloved First World countries. United States, Canada, Japan, United Kingdom. No wonder the United States leads the world in lung cancer incidence according to the World Cancer Research International. Bad news because the US also lags far behind in health care.

          Again, your comments demonstrate why the US is ranked 55th in the world for literacy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bambu
    I have been living in Asia for four years and have no issue with Paypal caps on EPCs. Of course all of my websites target US traffic.

    I love living out here and the freedom I enjoy. This year I plan on working from Cambodia and Brazil. I will also be vacationing in the Philippines, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, and Myanmar. Next year? Who knows.

    Things are cheaper out here and your money goes further.

    As is clear from this thread, living overseas is not for everyone, but I agree with the OP when he says that IM (or any job for that matter) can afford a much nicer lifestyle out here than back home.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Great ideas, OP! You are living the happy dream!
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  • Profile picture of the author Erdinger
    Definitely an idea worth considering when I actually earn that amount online.
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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    Living in another continent where expenses would be lesser and your money can buy you more has its pros and cons. But if you are happy where you are, all of these doesn't matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
    Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

    Online marketing can seem like such a struggle sometimes, even when you're doing "well." But the view is lopsided because you earn in a strong currency (dollars, EUROS, pounds, AUD) and yet you spend in that same currency, so you really have to bust your butt.

    However, if you're even making $800US online, even if it's by offering services, you need to buy a plane ticket out to Thailand ASAP. $800 US is a comfortable wage here...

    You'll find that you can work a lot less, enjoy life a lot more and still save money if you earn in a strong currency.

    I don't know about you guys, but I'm in this game so that I can actually ENJOY my life, hang out with cute chicks, drink some beer, play guitar, chill on the beach, train jiu jitsu and whatever else floats YOUR boat.

    In the "west", you have to earn a disproportionate income to live like a human being. But if you can leverage your currency, you'll find that life has a lot more to offer than just 24/7 hustle.

    Just to put it in perspective, I was in Miami Beach prior to coming out to Thailand and I paid $1200 US for an apartment, probably $600 for food a month, and some other random expenses. I basically broke even each month, spending about $3000/mo.

    Here's I'm spending about $800/mo, work less, go on day trips to interesting places, hang out more with cool people and travelers and generally work to live rather than live to work.

    This isn't a "look at me and how cool I am because I'm in Asia" thread. It's a "look at YOU, wouldn't you rather be living a nice lifestyle for a lot less" thread.

    Any questions? Will be happy to answer. Peace -Vic
    Same story in India

    One can live a comfortable luxurious life @ $1000/mo!
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I used to live in Bangkok for 3 years. I agree you can live on much less there, no doubt.

    But for me, $800 is not a comfortable living wage there, not anymore. That's only about 24,000 baht. Especially at the current exchange rate. The dollar goes 25% less further than it used to, in Thailand. When I was there it was about 40 baht to the dollar and when it got down to 34 I was thinking, "That's far enough!" Now it's at around 30.

    For most used to a Western lifestyle, that's just not going to be enough. I used to get by on 30,000 baht quite fine and even saved money, but I had a really cheap, dinky studio and ate out every meal. I didn't have a TV or computer though, which I would definitely need now! I only got a TV and UBC satellite cable while I was living on 40,000 per month,

    If I move back I would want a better place and a bit more spending money. I'd say $1500 in take home pay per month, though, could really be pretty decent these days for most.

    Some, though, would probably still want more. I read on the Thai expat forums where some guys are happy with 30,000 baht a month though it's a simple life at that rate, and others can't do it for less than 200,000 baht per month, so it really depends on the person and their tastes and what they are used to having and spending money on.

    But your money should go much further than the West if you're smart, for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Living in these countries is not all that. If you're young and in good health, fine.

    At the end of the day, these places are not really your "home" unless you marry a local, maybe have children.

    Not to mention things lacking we take for granted such as modern healthcare. What happens if you suffer from cancer, for example? The world's best oncologists do not practise in developing countries, nor can you get affordable access to the best drugs that you need, maybe not even the basic ones.

    And what if something should happen to you? In Thailand, what if a local accuses the "farang" of some crime, slips a few Baht to a policeman, the next thing you find yourself in jail and your embassy refusing to help you.

    A friend of mine was arrested for simply being in the same building as a suspect, his blood was tested and found positive for marijuana metabolites (he did not even smoke any in Thailand) and he was sent to jail.

    If there's one thing I want to avoid more than anything else in these "exotic" countries, it's getting banged up in jail. I've seen too many episodes of "Locked Up/Banged Up Abroad" for me to get a great fear of that!


    Bangkok has some pretty fine doctors, if I do say so myself. (best sex change doctors in the world too! he he) Some great hospitals, too. But those ones will cost you an arm and a leg, for sure. Very expensive if you want the best. Better get some great insurance. But yeah, in general, healthcare is not as up to par as the West. Heard some horror stories from people I didn't really know but all my friends were well taken care of when sick, having babies, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ra One
      Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

      Bangkok has some pretty fine doctors, if I do say so myself. (best sex change doctors in the world too! he he) Some great hospitals, too. But those ones will cost you an arm and a leg, for sure. Very expensive if you want the best. Better get some great insurance. But yeah, in general, healthcare is not as up to par as the West. Heard some horror stories from people I didn't really know but all my friends were well taken care of when sick, having babies, etc.
      So how was ur trip to the ermm sex change doc?
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
    Well, no matter where you want to be in South East Asia, NEVER EVER think of staying in Singapore for a measly $800/month!

    In my country:
    - A small 1291ft apartment will cost you USD$500,000+
    - A small Toyota car will cost you USD$100,000+
    - A average cost of dining out in the hawker can cost you USD$5 per person

    You need to earn at least USD$10,000 per month before you can enjoy your life!
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    • Profile picture of the author malchiang
      Not in some places like Singapore where everything is sky high, Thailand and Malaysia I can understand.
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    • Profile picture of the author jeskola
      Originally Posted by Joseph Then View Post

      Well, no matter where you want to be in South East Asia, NEVER EVER think of staying in Singapore for a measly $800/month!

      In my country:
      - A small 1291ft apartment will cost you USD$500,000+
      - A small Toyota car will cost you USD$100,000+
      - A average cost of dining out in the hawker can cost you USD$5 per person

      You need to earn at least USD$10,000 per month before you can enjoy your life!
      Yep - i am in Hong Kong... much the same. Rent is CRAZY... you wont find any apartment for less than 1500 USD ( that would get you maybe 600 sq ft ). If you want to live in something more like you are used to in the west you're looking at more like 3 or 4000 USD a month and still only around 1200 sq ft).

      On the plus side though... taxes are only 15%. As a business owner no dividends tax, capital gains or corporate tax. Eating out can be very cheap if you are ok eating asian food. The travel makes up for it also - only a couple hours from Thailand,Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam etc and it's real cheap to do so... so it's quite possible to do that once a month or every other month for a long weekend. I myself love Muay Thai so i try go to train in Thailand once every 3 months.

      Also something else that i would never have considered before as a bonus is the transport system. Possibly the best in the world. The MTR is very efficient and cheap way to travel around the city (I believe over 90% of the population use it every day)

      Most apartments are small and have no kitchens as the culture is more eating out... if you want to eat western style or drink beers - well that is super expensive also.

      I have to say i do love living in Hong Kong it's an amazing and unique city - however pollution is getting worse and the rise of the mainland tourists is really raising costs across the board.

      If you want to work in the digital industries (Not IM - but work in an office doing design, SEO etc) - you can do very well at the moment - particularly Singapore or Hong Kong as it's boom time with the internet world here. Singapore is miles ahead of HK so far for it but HK is rising fast - you could probably expect around 25 - 30% extra money on top of what you get in the west for those jobs if you have the skills.

      I have been thinking of my next move and I think Penang might be my next location - still very cheap and on the up.
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  • Good point Vic,
    I am currently working in Singapore and once I make a decent amount from IM I am up and off to Thailand/Vietnam/Indonesia for a while. Im glad your having a blast in Thailand it is an amazing place the vibe from the place alone gets you pumped up.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
      Originally Posted by Robert Montgomery View Post

      Good point Vic,
      I am currently working in Singapore and once I make a decent amount from IM I am up and off to Thailand/Vietnam/Indonesia for a while. Im glad your having a blast in Thailand it is an amazing place the vibe from the place alone gets you pumped up.
      Go go go...
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      • Originally Posted by Joseph Then View Post

        Go go go...
        Haha I know you locals dont like us FT's
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
          Originally Posted by Robert Montgomery View Post

          Haha I know you locals dont like us FT's
          Em... Correction Rob... We like FTs, as long as they contribute to our economy. We don't like too many FTs. That's the difference.
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          • Profile picture of the author Bambu
            Get used to it:confused: As you no doubt already know the powers that be have made it clear that they intend to increase the population by another 2 million people Growth at all costs. You have to keep investors happy I guess.

            Singapore is a very easy place to live. Yes, it is expensive, but I have never lived in a safer country. And the local food is awesome. If you stick to hawker centers here, you can get by on 3-5 USD per meal. Not too shabby in my opinion.

            Originally Posted by Joseph Then View Post

            Em... Correction Rob... We like FTs, as long as they contribute to our economy. We don't like too many FTs. That's the difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author BurtL
    Yeah, it's nice to be a dollar earner in the Philippines.
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  • Profile picture of the author tumichael
    How about coming to Vietnam? 1usd = 21.000 vnd
    Everything is very cheap in Vietnam but the problem is bad traffic, too crowded and polluted

    Tu Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author denysapu
    Oh ya, Thailand and several allied countries in Southeast Asia.
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  • Profile picture of the author johntan17
    I read before on some magazines that the cost of living in Southeast Asia is quite low except for Singapore and certain parts of the more cosmopolitan Malaysia cities like Kuala Lumpur. USD $800 per month is more than enough for a comfortable life in countries like Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar. The cost of living in Thailand would be slightly higher as the country is more developed.

    I know that from some great article writers that I hired from Philippines in the past. I paid them on average about $2 - $5 per 500 word articles and they were very happy with the rate. They told me that the average income in their country was just about US$300 per month.

    I would visit one of these Southeast-Asia countries one day. Thanks for the post, vtotheyouknow!
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    • Profile picture of the author gjd6599
      I was stationed in Okinawa in the early seventies, and went to the Philippines, and Thailand, several times. Gas was 22 cents a gallon, and American cigarettes were 19 cents a pack, on base. Those were the days.

      It was nice in all of those countries, and I would like to go back for a visit, but I think I would miss the good old USA, even with all it's problems.

      Glenn
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  • Profile picture of the author khooster1
    No all south East Asian countries are cheap. In Singapore where I am based, things are getting very expensive each day. A typical lunch cost about 8 US.. One of the best places is still Thailand. Things are utterly cheap and the people there are very friendly.

    Can PM me if you need more information around this region. I will be able to provide great information. Cheers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hardi Wijaya
    Watch out guys. Vietnam is moving ahead of other countries in S.E. Asia. Low cost of living... improving high standard of living. Don't know how long this advantage will last... maybe 10 to 20 years.
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    • Profile picture of the author konrud
      Guys, guys...

      Asia? I know many gurus live there. It is cheap.

      But go to Belarus - Central Europe. I live here. I earn good money online and I can live in luxury hotel here for this money=)

      Our average salary is $400 a month. If you earn more you can a be a rich man here and live like a king=)
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      • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
        Originally Posted by konrud View Post

        Guys, guys...

        Asia? I know many gurus live there. It is cheap.

        But go to Belarus - Central Europe. I live here. I earn good money online and I can live in luxury hotel here for this money=)

        Our average salary is $400 a month. If you earn more you can a be a rich man here and live like a king=)
        Hmmm let me think Belarus minus 10 in the winter errr no thanks no matter how cheap it is LOL it has to be warm for me to even consider it.

        Gaz
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    The idea is great on paper, but think about what kind of work you do...

    Nothing in this business is stable. If you make $3,000 a month from your website and lets say your website gets hit by another SEO update and you lose your income overnight. What are you going to do?

    Instead of trying to cash in all your chips for a better life right now. Why not take that $3,000 you make and invest it back into your business and turn it into $6,000, $9,000, etc, etc. Then you won't have to go and only live Thailand, you could buy a 2nd home there and travel the world.

    People get so caught up in reaching a certain income goal. Usually that number is only $3,000-$5,000 a month. Why do you all set your standards so low? That's probably the number one killer of internet marketers... getting too comfortable with where you are at.

    This business is always changing and if you stop for just a moment, you will get left behind... You should always be adapting and striving to make as much money as possible. Do you think this industry is going to be around forever? If you're betting your career on internet marketing you better be busting your ass to make more than $3,000 a month...
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Interesting topic!

      Taking advantage of currency exchange rates is just plain SMART.

      But there is NO WAY on God's green earth that I'm ever moving to Southeast Asia to save a few bucks. (Or South America for that matter.)

      Chris Kent makes some good points. For me, legal and medical issues come to mind. Can I trust the police and judicial system? What kind of medical care can I expect if necessary, especially on an emergency basis? (I already have ongoing medical issues.) Even if the medical care is good (in one instance), is it consistent?

      One Warrior I know of said she had her hip replacement done in India for $6K. She said it would have cost $60K here in the States.

      Both of my hips were replaced and cost about $80K EACH (here in the States). I DON'T CARE if I could have had it done cheaper in India. For me, peace of mind is worth the difference.

      No, foreign medical care isn't necessarily inferior. But what if something goes wrong? Is there someone competent to fix it? What if I need to pursue legal action? Can I get satisfaction (legally) if necessary?

      As a single woman with medical issues, there is NO WAY I'm moving to a non-Western country (or even South American country) to save a few bucks. (I might be willing to move to England or France or another European country under special circumstances, but even then...)

      I'd far rather be smart about money (using cheap labor, etc.) by NOT putting myself at risk, either physically or legally. I dunno. I read a lot of books and maybe I've read too many: Midnight Express, Not Without My Daughter, etc. Not to mention all of the books about women in Islamic societies. (And yes, I know Thailand and Mexico aren't Saudi Arabia.)

      I happen to like being an American and am keenly aware that the moment I step off of American soil, my rights and liberties as I know them are suspended and I'm completely subject to the laws and decrees of the land I occupy.

      For me, moving to a foreign country just to live like a queen for cheap is selling out, being a bit lazy. My goal is to do VERY well -- by American standards (and keep my American rights and liberties, as well as all of my very American amenities).

      I know I can do it.

      Of course, I live in South Florida... I guess that makes me and Jose Jalepeno Cuban. (Jeff Dunham reference.)

      Michelle
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      • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
        Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

        Interesting topic!

        Of course, I live in South Florida... I guess that makes me and Jose Jalepeno Cuban. (Jeff Dunham reference.)

        Michelle
        Like I said certainly not for everyone Michelle

        I would also like to add that I still work just as hard if I choose to as someone in the US or wherever,

        I dont live here to be lazy and several of my IM associates living here earn Millions of Dollars a year you would be surprised, and they choose to live here too and they could live anywhere they choose.

        For a young person struggling in an expensive country why not have the adventure I highly recommend it I left UK 27 years ago and still loving it.

        Each person is different thats for sure

        Gaz
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      • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
        Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

        Interesting topic!

        Can I trust the police and judicial system?





        Michelle
        Can you trust the police and judicial system in the USA ? I know I don´t...

        Corruption exists within the police / judicial systems in any country in the world.

        I prefer corruption that is pretty much out in the open (and I can deal with it easier, with 200 or 300 soles if necessary, although I have never needed to do that yet, and hopefully will never need to) instead of being well hidden and behind the scenes, like it is in the USA.

        As for health issues.... I don´t have any (not yet, knock on wood), and exercise regularly and eat healthy. If I have an accident (I broke my ankle a year ago) I have my fiancee, my future Mother-in-law and 2 sisters-in-law that help take care of me (feed me, go buy medicine, etc.) until I recuperate.

        I don´t live like a king here, but the point is, I live with much less stress than I did in the USA.

        Here, I never worry about being shot and killed with dozens of other people in a movie theater or mall by a madman on a rampage. The USA is not 1955 or even 1975 anymore (I wish it was, but it is not).

        The only thing to watch out for here, is being robbed, maybe beaten or killed in the process of being robbed (but being killed is not likely). But... if you know which areas of the city to stay away from and don¨t walk around at night (even in the best areas) looking like a lost tourist, then you will be pretty safe. I have been in Lima for 6 years now without incident (knock on wood).

        Everyone is different and has their own preferences, sense of adventure, etc.

        For my part, I like my life here in Lima, Peru ( but will still defend the USA if someone badmouths it too much, especially if they have never lived there. I was born in the USA, served in the US military and have every right to my opinions of it, unlike others who have neither lived there or served the country as I did).

        These days, as bad as the U.S. economy is (and will get worse, being 16 trillion in debt and climbing) looking for greener pastures (and less insane and violent pastures) is the wise thing to do.

        Good luck to everyone.
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      • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
        Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

        Midnight Express, Not Without My Daughter, etc. Not to mention all of the books about women in Islamic societies. (And yes, I know Thailand and Mexico aren't Saudi Arabia.)
        How can you look down on Asia, Mexico and Saudi Arabia using two books that have nothing to do with all those countries? Midnight Express (Turkey) NWMD (Iran).

        The one country you mentioned that's really curious is Saudi Arabia where Western women, particularly American women are untouchable. Medical facilities are more modern than in America, western doctors are better paid, medical fully covered by employer, and the judicial process is immediately handed to the American military and embassy if it relates to Americans.


        Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

        (and keep my American rights and liberties
        What rights? Your social liberties are better served by stepping outside the US soil. Your American social rights moved to Scandinavia. Your economic liberties moved to Singapore, Hong Kong, Caribbean. And if you're a liberal, your rights to free health care is in Canada.
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      • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
        Great topic. Since I graduated from uni many years ago I've spent most of my time traveling around the world for months on end and occasionally settling down in a city for a while. I was in Bangkok for 6 months last year, one of my favourite cities in the world, up there with Rio and Sao Paulo (Brazil is no longer cheap though and Sao Paulo one of the most expensive cities in the world). Bangkok is great because it's so cheap to live there, there's an abundance of things to do and 7 nights a week night life which is right up my street. I live like a rock star when I'm out there and it hardly costs a thing. You can have a much better standard of life with more luxuries and enjoyment than you can in the West. I don't care for cars, homes, gadgets or anything anyway I just want experiences and to enjoy life, indulge my passions.

        Online marketing can seem like such a struggle sometimes, even when you're doing "well." But the view is lopsided because you earn in a strong currency (dollars, EUROS, pounds, AUD) and yet you spend in that same currency, so you really have to bust your butt.

        However, if you're even making $800US online, even if it's by offering services, you need to buy a plane ticket out to Thailand ASAP. $800 US is a comfortable wage here...
        Whilst it's cheap out there I can't personally live off $800. I need double that per month and I wouldn't say I was living a life of luxury. I read a blog post about an IM'er living out there for under $300 a month recently, which is insane. He sleeps in an old apartment block on a matress on the floor with multiple people in the apartment, no air con, eats street food 3 times a day and never goes out partying or drinking. To me that's a meager existence and defeats the purpose of moving somewhere cheaper than home to live, I want to live in these places so I can live a BETTER life style than I have back home. He thought he was living like a VIP however so I guess everyones definition of luxury is different.

        Originally Posted by IM Headlines View Post

        Well personally I wouldn't leave my country for another just because I can buy more things over there. The circumstances would have to be really bad for me to leave my home.
        Why do things have to be bad for you to leave home? What about the desire to see the world, explore new places, get to know new cultures and places? There's a big wide world out there just waiting to be discovered. You can come back 'home' at any time. I don't even feel like 'home' is my home anywhere, I've felt more at home in places like Peru, Thailand, Brazil, Cambodia and so on than where I was born.

        Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

        Living in these countries is not all that. If you're young and in good health, fine.

        At the end of the day, these places are not really your "home" unless you marry a local, maybe have children.

        Not to mention things lacking we take for granted such as modern healthcare. What happens if you suffer from cancer, for example? The world's best oncologists do not practise in developing countries, nor can you get affordable access to the best drugs that you need, maybe not even the basic ones.

        And what if something should happen to you? In Thailand, what if a local accuses the "farang" of some crime, slips a few Baht to a policeman, the next thing you find yourself in jail and your embassy refusing to help you.

        A friend of mine was arrested for simply being in the same building as a suspect, his blood was tested and found positive for marijuana metabolites (he did not even smoke any in Thailand) and he was sent to jail.

        If there's one thing I want to avoid more than anything else in these "exotic" countries, it's getting banged up in jail. I've seen too many episodes of "Locked Up/Banged Up Abroad" for me to get a great fear of that!
        That's all 'what ifs'. You can't go through your life worrying about what might happen. What happens happens. Bad things can happen anywhere. People get arrested and thrown in jail in the US and Europe for drugs , people get sick and can't afford to get treatment in the US all the time, corrupt cops frame people for things they didn't do in the West too.

        Bangkok where the OP is has world class health care btw.

        My home is wherever I call home. Not where I was born. I don't feel I need to be married or have children in the country to consider it home.

        Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

        The idea is great on paper, but think about what kind of work you do...

        Nothing in this business is stable. If you make $3,000 a month from your website and lets say your website gets hit by another SEO update and you lose your income overnight. What are you going to do?

        Instead of trying to cash in all your chips for a better life right now. Why not take that $3,000 you make and invest it back into your business and turn it into $6,000, $9,000, etc, etc. Then you won't have to go and only live Thailand, you could buy a 2nd home there and travel the world.

        People get so caught up in reaching a certain income goal. Usually that number is only $3,000-$5,000 a month. Why do you all set your standards so low? That's probably the number one killer of internet marketers... getting too comfortable with where you are at.

        This business is always changing and if you stop for just a moment, you will get left behind... You should always be adapting and striving to make as much money as possible. Do you think this industry is going to be around forever? If you're betting your career on internet marketing you better be busting your ass to make more than $3,000 a month...
        Your problem may be that your business is built on traffic from SEO. If it didn't rely on Google or SEO you wouldn't have to worry about an update wiping out your income. Paid traffic will never go away, there will always be somewhere that you can find your target audience and put adverts in front of them.

        It's all well and good trying to save for the future but you might find the future never comes, you might end up sick, dead or broke and wish you'd just lived your life when you could. There's no need to sacrifice life now for the future in this day and age with the technology and opportunities that we have.

        Also who says that just because you've moved abroad that you'll stop building your business? The reason you go abroad is because it's cheaper to live out there than it is at home, so you have MORE money to invest into your business as well as living a much higher standard of live than you can at home.

        I think you've TOTALLY missed the point here on so many levels.

        Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

        Interesting topic!

        Taking advantage of currency exchange rates is just plain SMART.

        But there is NO WAY on God's green earth that I'm ever moving to Southeast Asia to save a few bucks. (Or South America for that matter.)

        Chris Kent makes some good points. For me, legal and medical issues come to mind. Can I trust the police and judicial system? What kind of medical care can I expect if necessary, especially on an emergency basis? (I already have ongoing medical issues.) Even if the medical care is good (in one instance), is it consistent?

        One Warrior I know of said she had her hip replacement done in India for $6K. She said it would have cost $60K here in the States.

        Both of my hips were replaced and cost about $80K EACH (here in the States). I DON'T CARE if I could have had it done cheaper in India. For me, peace of mind is worth the difference.

        No, foreign medical care isn't necessarily inferior. But what if something goes wrong? Is there someone competent to fix it? What if I need to pursue legal action? Can I get satisfaction (legally) if necessary?

        As a single woman with medical issues, there is NO WAY I'm moving to a non-Western country (or even South American country) to save a few bucks. (I might be willing to move to England or France or another European country under special circumstances, but even then...)

        I'd far rather be smart about money (using cheap labor, etc.) by NOT putting myself at risk, either physically or legally. I dunno. I read a lot of books and maybe I've read too many: Midnight Express, Not Without My Daughter, etc. Not to mention all of the books about women in Islamic societies. (And yes, I know Thailand and Mexico aren't Saudi Arabia.)

        I happen to like being an American and am keenly aware that the moment I step off of American soil, my rights and liberties as I know them are suspended and I'm completely subject to the laws and decrees of the land I occupy.

        For me, moving to a foreign country just to live like a queen for cheap is selling out, being a bit lazy. My goal is to do VERY well -- by American standards (and keep my American rights and liberties, as well as all of my very American amenities).

        I know I can do it.

        Of course, I live in South Florida... I guess that makes me and Jose Jalepeno Cuban. (Jeff Dunham reference.)

        Michelle
        You seem to assume the whole world outside America is inferior in every way which is wrong.

        People need to open their minds a bit more. The world isn't a big bad scary place where you have no rights or liberties and will be locked up for nothing.

        Many places have decent medical care (often universally free for everyone unlike the US!).
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        • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
          Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

          Your problem may be that your business is built on traffic from SEO. If it didn't rely on Google or SEO you wouldn't have to worry about an update wiping out your income. Paid traffic will never go away, there will always be somewhere that you can find your target audience and put adverts in front of them.

          It's all well and good trying to save for the future but you might find the future never comes, you might end up sick, dead or broke and wish you'd just lived your life when you could. There's no need to sacrifice life now for the future in this day and age with the technology and opportunities that we have.

          Also who says that just because you've moved abroad that you'll stop building your business? The reason you go abroad is because it's cheaper to live out there than it is at home, so you have MORE money to invest into your business as well as living a much higher standard of live than you can at home.

          I think you've TOTALLY missed the point here on so many levels.
          I used the SEO example because that's what most people here actually build around. The whole point I was trying to make was exactly what your saying. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

          If you feel satisfied with making $3,000 a month and moving to asia then by all means go have fun, but don't come crying 5-10 years down the road when that $3,000 a month isn't good enough to sustain your life anymore and the opportunities that are available now, aren't around anymore.

          The point I'm trying to get across to people is that seeking immediate pleasure can be a terrible plan for your future. Make sacrifices for a year and build your business and become successful at all costs. Traveling across the world to live in an exotic place just because it's 'cheaper' isn't a smart business plan.

          Here's a video from someone not a lot of people like, but what he says in the video is exactly what is required to become rich.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiumzojadGs
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  • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
    I agree with the OP on many point but also agree with Chris on some points

    I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 7 years and Chiang Mai is WAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Bangkok and $800 a month even now with the Baht at its current exchange rate its still very doable to live GREAT LIFE here.

    Here are a few real costs of living in Chiang Mai

    Housing

    NICE simple single studio Apartment single room with bathroom cable television and Internet in the center of town $35 a week some places as low $20 a week.

    Next level up a NICELY DECORATED studio $50 a week

    I recently purchased a large home here but for the past 7 years I rented and I rented a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom Bungalow in a nice neibourhood for approx $250 a month

    Electricity $30-50 a month depending if you use A/C a lot

    Internet $15 a month

    We mostly eat out here and most thais eat 4 to 6 small meals per day and costs about .60 - $1 per meal if you prefer western food then expect to pay more I pay $3 for a massive English breakfast when I have the inclination and $10 for Indian curry for me and missus once a week.

    For a single person that does not drink too much $800 id doable

    to live like a KING $2000 a month

    and for some of us big earners we live better than kings LOL

    There are negatives and if your into drug like Chris's friend then this is not the place for you, the drug laws here are EXTREME to the max as many a farang (foreiner) finds out, while it might be nothing to get caught smoking a joint in the west its a big issue here and can get you in serious trouble.

    In addition to that the police have the right to check your pee or your blood and if they find you have drugs in your system its just as bad as being caught with them

    There is a very simple remedy for this DONT DO DRUGS IN ASIA most countries have the death penalty for drug traffickers

    Medical care

    Thailand has some EXCELLENT doctors plastic surgeons etc but it can be expensive but NOTHING compared to the USA

    I had a motorbike accident broke my leg in 5 places spent 3 weeks in Hospital had surgery and they screwed me back together and all that cost me $12,000 USD

    Insurance is inline with US prices.

    Its certainly not for everyone but if you are adventurous then why not, its true you need a fraction of the income to live here and I LOVE IT

    Best thing is come for a long holiday first and see if you like it and then make the decision to jump in

    I left the UK 27 years ago lived in Spain for 4 years Central America for 16 years and now Thailand for 7

    Would never dream of going back to the UK

    NEVER

    Forgot to say its real cheap to see the surrounding countries too, which is great .

    Gaz Cooper
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    • Profile picture of the author Summer1
      Originally Posted by Gaz Cooper View Post

      I agree with the OP on many point but also agree with Chris on some points

      I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 7 years and Chiang Mai is WAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Bangkok and $800 a month even now with the Baht at its current exchange rate its still very doable to live GREAT LIFE here.

      Here are a few real costs of living in Chiang Mai

      Housing

      NICE simple single studio Apartment single room with bathroom cable television and Internet in the center of town $35 a week some places as low $20 a week.

      Next level up a NICELY DECORATED studio $50 a week

      I recently purchased a large home here but for the past 7 years I rented and I rented a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom Bungalow in a nice neibourhood for approx $250 a month

      Electricity $30-50 a month depending if you use A/C a lot

      Internet $15 a month

      We mostly eat out here and most thais eat 4 to 6 small meals per day and costs about .60 - $1 per meal if you prefer western food then expect to pay more I pay $3 for a massive English breakfast when I have the inclination and $10 for Indian curry for me and missus once a week.

      For a single person that does not drink too much $800 id doable

      to live like a KING $2000 a month

      and for some of us big earners we live better than kings LOL

      There are negatives and if your into drug like Chris's friend then this is not the place for you, the drug laws here are EXTREME to the max as many a farang (foreiner) finds out, while it might be nothing to get caught smoking a joint in the west its a big issue here and can get you in serious trouble.

      In addition to that the police have the right to check your pee or your blood and if they find you have drugs in your system its just as bad as being caught with them

      There is a very simple remedy for this DONT DO DRUGS IN ASIA most countries have the death penalty for drug traffickers

      Medical care

      Thailand has some EXCELLENT doctors plastic surgeons etc but it can be expensive but NOTHING compared to the USA

      I had a motorbike accident broke my leg in 5 places spent 3 weeks in Hospital had surgery and they screwed me back together and all that cost me $12,000 USD

      Insurance is inline with US prices.

      Its certainly not for everyone but if you are adventurous then why not, its true you need a fraction of the income to live here and I LOVE IT

      Best thing is come for a long holiday first and see if you like it and then make the decision to jump in

      I left the UK 27 years ago lived in Spain for 4 years Central America for 16 years and now Thailand for 7

      Would never dream of going back to the UK

      NEVER

      Forgot to say its real cheap to see the surrounding countries too, which is great .

      Gaz Cooper
      Hi Gaz,

      Are those properties owned under your name or your wife name?

      In some countries, foreigners are not allowed to own properties, like houses or stuff, unless you register a foreign business which will be hugely taxed, and the people from government will really watch you for it.

      Some people will have their properties on their wifes name, but I have some friends who were dumped, get divorced, and the wife runs away with everything he once had.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
        Originally Posted by Summer1 View Post

        Hi Gaz,

        Are those properties owned under your name or your wife name?

        In some countries, foreigners are not allowed to own properties, like houses or stuff, unless you register a foreign business which will be hugely taxed, and the people from government will really watch you for it.

        Some people will have their properties on their wifes name, but I have some friends who were dumped, get divorced, and the wife runs away with everything he once had.
        Foreigners cannot own LAND here in Thailand however they can own the house that is on the Land, they can also own Condos outright as long as the building is 51% thai owned.

        The correct way to protect your investment is to either buy the land in your wifes name and then have her lease the land back to you for a nominal fee you then control the land outright and can build a house upon it which you actually own, should you are your wife split then you are the one that owns the proeprty and the lease is still valid until it expires (normally 30 year lease terms.)

        The other way to do it is whats called an usufruct which is basically a right to enjoy the property and your name goes on the title and your partner cannot sell without your signature it expires upon your death.

        Many also put the property into a Thai company although this is actually illegal to do but many have done it and nothing seems to have happened but I would not take the risk that way since the thai government has said many times this is gaming the law and if they find out it will be gone.

        The safest option is the condo however if you are in a solid relationship then there are options and ultimately Thai law states that should you get divorced its split 50/50, personally for me I have kids so I don't care its for them.

        The problem is many guys come here and fall in love overnight and before you know it they are buying there new girl a new gold bracelet then a new motorbike then a new car and then a new house, it quite comical actually its like they lose all their senses.

        The key is take it slow (took me 7 years to buy) and of course dont follow my advice get proper legal advice.

        Gaz Cooper
        Amz Training Academy
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  • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Living in these countries is not all that. If you're young and in good health, fine.

    At the end of the day, these places are not really your "home" unless you marry a local, maybe have children.

    Not to mention things lacking we take for granted such as modern healthcare. What happens if you suffer from cancer, for example? The world's best oncologists do not practise in developing countries, nor can you get affordable access to the best drugs that you need, maybe not even the basic ones.

    And what if something should happen to you? In Thailand, what if a local accuses the "farang" of some crime, slips a few Baht to a policeman, the next thing you find yourself in jail and your embassy refusing to help you.

    A friend of mine was arrested for simply being in the same building as a suspect, his blood was tested and found positive for marijuana metabolites (he did not even smoke any in Thailand) and he was sent to jail.

    If there's one thing I want to avoid more than anything else in these "exotic" countries, it's getting banged up in jail. I've seen too many episodes of "Locked Up/Banged Up Abroad" for me to get a great fear of that!
    Thought I would address Chris's post directly

    I obviously know many many westerners that live in Thailand and I know many single guys that have made it their home and have lived here for many many years, I also know tons of guys that married a Thai lady and had kids such as myself and we all call it home because that is where our family is.

    Thailand is like the retirement hub of asia with massive numbers of elderly expats and they seem to do just fine with all the issues that Chris mentions.

    I think the issue is what sort of person you are and if you can make it in ANY different country other than your own.

    I know people in all the places i have lived that visited and Hated these places NEW YORKERS were always the worst (sorry guys) but the culture shock was just too much for them so it certainly is not for everyone and only you know if you might be the right person for an adventure of this kind.

    Medical Care

    If you have insurance you have access to excellent healthcare but if you dont have insurance just as in the states you will get inferior treatment.

    With regards to meds you can get pretty much everything here most are generic copies of the exact same meds and I know a few people with HIV who get all the meds they need with no problems at all, it just if you have money or not if you have money you can get anything.

    The "what if" approach does not work with me because if I lived my life wondering WHAT IF, WHAT IF I would still be stuck homeless in Birmingham UK, you have to take risks and sometimes just say SCREW IT I'm going to at least give it a try, if it dont work out AT LEAST I TRIED and now I know its not for me.

    DRUGS

    Your friend is a drug user and EVERYONE see's the massive signs when flying into Bangkok DRUGS ARE ILLEGAL and DEATH PENALTY to drug traffickers.

    Now it absolutely amazes me that people come here and start to look for weed and coke and other drugs and the full moon party is a classic example drugs available and the show you mention I have watched too and the one thing that is consistent is most were doing drugs so that fact they have no one to blame but themselves even your friend.

    Dont do drugs and you have no issue

    People can either give it a go and see if it suits you or keep thinking what if this or what if that, etc

    Lifes is an Adventure

    LIVE IT

    Gaz Cooper
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  • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
    Like Gaz I live in Chiang Mai, Thailand and have recently relocated there for good. I feel more at home in South East Asia than I do in the UK. As Gaz pointed out and some of the others it is not for everyone.

    For those who have a spark of adventure inside them you should take a look, you might be pleasantly surprised.
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  • Profile picture of the author gonzotrucker
    I just came back to the states from the Philippine's where I lived for 8 months. My budget was $1200 a month, and yes I lived very well indeed. I will move back permanently when I start to earn $1000 a month online.

    I'm also setting up a few small offline business over there. My reason for living over there is simple. I can live better for less money, and not have to work so much. Life is short why should I spend it working 60 hours a week with no vacation.

    I'm 36 years old, and have been working all my life driving trucks 60+ hours a week. In the USA blue collar workers like me only get 2 weeks vacation every year. So I've spent 95% of my life working, and sleeping already. I guess it's ok if you love your work but I don't. I do it as a way to survive.




    Philippine's.
    Where I was living is very rural Bayawan, City 3 hours from a major city. I met other foreigners who have been living there for 20 years. In no way is it convenient like the USA. We had brown outs every week. The internet was very slow, and no grocery stores. It was like living a pioneer lifestyle but I loved every minute of it.

    The other foreigners who live there told me the medical system is good but for any major work done they go home then come back. It was the most laid back lifestyle I've ever seen. I felt so relaxed without all the stress of living in the USA. People there live longer also, and have a healthier lifestyle. The old people don't take all the medicine like they do here. The young people walk a lot, and are very aware of their health. I lost weight 35 lbs, and my blood pressure went back to normal.


    It's not for everyone that is for sure. If you have any questions just ask me. I lived there for almost 9 months, and have been traveling there every year for 9 years now.
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by gonzotrucker View Post


      People there live longer also, and have a healthier lifestyle. The old people don't take all the medicine like they do here. The young people walk a lot, and are very aware of their health. I lost weight 35 lbs, and my blood pressure went back to normal.


      Yeah, pretty sure that's not true in terms of life expectancy. Are you talking about just the area you were in?

      Life expectancy Philippines = 68

      Life expectancy United States = 78

      I too love SE Asia and the more laid back lifestyle but the facts are you can usually live longer in Western countries.
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      • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
        Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

        Yeah, pretty sure that's not true in terms of life expectancy. Are you talking about just the area you were in?

        Life expectancy Philippines = 68

        Life expectancy United States = 78

        I too love SE Asia and the more laid back lifestyle but the facts are you can usually live longer in Western countries.
        Some things can be said about Quality of Life (not living to which Vancouver is top). Singapore is right at the bottom. The most unhappy nation in the world. Philippines is right at the very top. The happiest nation. Legacy of the Spanish "present-oriented" culture.

        So life expectancy is misleading. 78 years in America is only a positive if that extra 10 years is not lived in sustained misery of watching the world you know fall apart. Economic uncertainties all around you, your government playing roulette on your social security & medical care, watching your children struggle financially because their jobs were outsourced to the Philippines and your grandchildren graduate only to meet unemployment and a lifetime of debt.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by BarberShop View Post

          So life expectancy is misleading.
          Yes indeed. For the reasons you discuss and for several other reasons, too.

          The clearest and best-studied of those is what a fallacy it is to imagine that if you go and live somewhere where average life-expectancy is longer, that's necessarily going to make your life-expectation longer. It very often isn't (as any actuary, environmental medical specialist or medical sociologist will tell you!).
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      • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Yes indeed. For the reasons you discuss and for several other reasons, too.

        The clearest and best-studied of those is what a fallacy it is to imagine that if you go and live somewhere where average life-expectancy is longer, that's necessarily going to make your life-expectation longer. It very often isn't (as any actuary, environmental medical specialist or medical sociologist will tell you!).
        Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

        Yeah, pretty sure that's not true in terms of life expectancy. Are you talking about just the area you were in?

        Life expectancy Philippines = 68

        Life expectancy United States = 78

        I too love SE Asia and the more laid back lifestyle but the facts are you can usually live longer in Western countries.
        Life expectancy in Thailand is lower than the USA or Europe due to a lot more people dying in motorbike accidents, rural Thai's not getting the right medical treatment, a lack of knowledge regarding food hygiene and a lot of other factors that would not impact on an expat westerners lifestyle..

        I would like to see a study on Expat life expectancy in these countries, for sure drinking in excess would lead to many an Expat's early demise as would the risk taking nature that is likely to be inherent within them.

        Many like myself need to work and have no interest in sitting on a bar stool all day. Many of us have started families in these countries lead a very similar lifestyle as back home apart from it's warmer, cheaper, friendlier and more fun!
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    • Originally Posted by gonzotrucker View Post

      I just came back to the states from the Philippine's where I lived for 8 months. My budget was $1200 a month, and yes I lived very well indeed. I will move back permanently when I start to earn $1000 a month online.

      If you're a bachelor, $1000/month here in the Philippines will give you a lifestyle that's similar to the lifestyle of a bachelor in California who earns $3000/month. That's because $3000/month in California will buy the same things in California that $1000 can buy in the Philippines.


      Originally Posted by gonzotrucker View Post

      I'm 36 years old, and have been working all my life driving trucks 60+ hours a week. In the USA blue collar workers like me only get 2 weeks vacation every year. So I've spent 95% of my life working, and sleeping already. I guess it's ok if you love your work but I don't. I do it as a way to survive.

      Blue collar employees here in the Philippines are paid among the lowest wages. If you were in the Philippines with the same job that you have in the US, then you'd be paid here a third of what you earn in the US (in terms of the $ buying power in the US and not forex value) and would have a lifestyle here that's a third of your lifestyle in the US. However:


      Executive posts in international corporations here that need creative labor, such as global advertising firms, are paid really well. Aside from good insurance from a global private insurance corp as well as government and private benefits, along with having good bank credit ratings, you'd earn enough money to have a lifestyle here that's similar to the lifestyle you'd get with $15000/month in California.


      Originally Posted by gonzotrucker View Post

      Philippine's.
      Where I was living is very rural Bayawan, City 3 hours from a major city. I met other foreigners who have been living there for 20 years. In no way is it convenient like the USA. We had brown outs every week. The internet was very slow, and no grocery stores. It was like living a pioneer lifestyle but I loved every minute of it.


      Yes, you get that in provincial cities and areas here. In Manila, the capital of the country, it's entirely different. My American and European traveler friends, most of whom are executives of international non-government organizations like the United Nations, consider Manila as a big city like NYC, and they've been to NYC and spent more than 3 years there. They also consider the suburban communities here in Manila as very similar to the suburban communities in California. As for the culture, we're so much "Westernized" here that even 3-year old children can fluently speak and understand English, because TV, print, book publication houses and schools among other media groups here all use English as their main medium. I know many people here in Manila who never went to school (yes, N E V E R), and they still understand English, enough to converse with someone who only speaks English. And, my traveler friends consider the provincial cities and areas here in the Philippines as quite similar to some rural areas in the US, such as certain areas in Kansas and Texas.


      Originally Posted by gonzotrucker View Post

      The other foreigners who live there told me the medical system is good but for any major work done they go home then come back.

      Yes, our hospitals and doctors here advise people to go to certain hospitals outside the country for certain treatment and surgeries, and they also arrange things for you with those foreign hospitals and their recommended doctors and surgeons in those hospitals. For example, after I was gunned down twice and permanently lost 100% of my eyesight in 2003, the top neurosurgeon of the Philippines operated on me, with the supervision of the top neurologist here in the Philippines (contacts of my father and mother). I was advised to contact some of their colleagues abroad for the latest developments in stem cell technology (to possibly regenerate my optic nerve). I also have a good family friend who went to Australia during my recovery just to speak with her colleagues there about certain software and gadgets that would be useful to me (that's where I learned about the applications, digital devices and electronic equipment that I now use to assist me in my daily activities at home, in my travels and while doing business), and she also hooked me up with her geneticist and medical scientist friends in the EU and Australia. My point is, each country has a different medical specialization, and it'd be best for a person to know which country to go to, for which type of specific treatmet.


      Originally Posted by gonzotrucker View Post

      It was the most laid back lifestyle I've ever seen. I felt so relaxed without all the stress of living in the USA. People there live longer also, and have a healthier lifestyle. The old people don't take all the medicine like they do here. The young people walk a lot, and are very aware of their health. I lost weight 35 lbs, and my blood pressure went back to normal.

      This varies from person to person. Someone who owns a big construction firm here and does all big contract negotiations and biddings on his or her own won't be as relaxed as someone who owns a couple of buildings in the capital that are rented out to offices and companies. Also, people up north (Ilocos region) have been documented to have the longest life expectancy in the country (I think it's 85), though like what others said above, the average life expectancy of a country or even a small area doesn't necessarily apply to anyone who lives there. What would be a more usable statistic to consider that'd affect life expectancy is crime rate. Here in Manila, if you rarely go out at night, or take the necessary precautions when you do, like avoiding high crime rate areas (which I overlooked and unfortunately got gunned down when I went out midnight with my wife to buy fried rice and "lechon kawali" at a local food stall in a high crime rate area with lots of hypes and drunk people), then you'd most likely be safe.
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    • Profile picture of the author tofrar
      Philippines is not so cheap as few years ago. At least not in bigger city.
      I did visit last year and everything is lot more expensive then when I live there few years ago.
      Most that is imported in Philippines is similar price and in Europe. At least phone, tv and such thing.
      5 years ago I could take 10 people to KFC for same price and one in Europe.
      Now it is 3:1
      I need at least 1500 usd to live there but 2000 would make a good life for me

      However I´m still aiming to move back one day




      Originally Posted by gonzotrucker View Post

      I just came back to the states from the Philippine's where I lived for 8 months. My budget was $1200 a month, and yes I lived very well indeed. I will move back permanently when I start to earn $1000 a month online.

      I'm also setting up a few small offline business over there. My reason for living over there is simple. I can live better for less money, and not have to work so much. Life is short why should I spend it working 60 hours a week with no vacation.

      I'm 36 years old, and have been working all my life driving trucks 60+ hours a week. In the USA blue collar workers like me only get 2 weeks vacation every year. So I've spent 95% of my life working, and sleeping already. I guess it's ok if you love your work but I don't. I do it as a way to survive.




      Philippine's.
      Where I was living is very rural Bayawan, City 3 hours from a major city. I met other foreigners who have been living there for 20 years. In no way is it convenient like the USA. We had brown outs every week. The internet was very slow, and no grocery stores. It was like living a pioneer lifestyle but I loved every minute of it.

      The other foreigners who live there told me the medical system is good but for any major work done they go home then come back. It was the most laid back lifestyle I've ever seen. I felt so relaxed without all the stress of living in the USA. People there live longer also, and have a healthier lifestyle. The old people don't take all the medicine like they do here. The young people walk a lot, and are very aware of their health. I lost weight 35 lbs, and my blood pressure went back to normal.


      It's not for everyone that is for sure. If you have any questions just ask me. I lived there for almost 9 months, and have been traveling there every year for 9 years now.
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  • I'm from the Philippines. I quit my job one year ago after I hit $1000/month through IM. I'm currently earning around 1k-1500/month and I'm living a decent life here.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey Vic...good to see you on the WF! :-)

    I totally agree with the OP here. My business partner and I live and work out of the Philippines, but travel quite a bit throughout SEAsia for work and for fun. If you're even a bit adventurous, you really can't beat living a jet-setting, millionaire lifestyle on a budget with a reasonable income.

    If you're reading this thread and you've been really considering this as an option...stop considering it. Drop whatever baggage or resistance you have going on and try it out...you're likely to dig it.

    There are quite a few like us and in this position...and the numbers are growing.

    It's funny to read those who are so negative about travel to "foreign" countries, worried about "foreign" healthcare, etc. It's usually very likely they haven't spent much time out of their home country...especially the Americans. Pound for pound and dollar for dollar...I'd be happy to be taken care of by the fine medical staff in Thailand at the top hospitals. And Singapore? No problems whatsoever...
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  • Profile picture of the author footbag_man
    Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

    Online marketing can seem like such a struggle sometimes, even when you're doing "well." But the view is lopsided because you earn in a strong currency (dollars, EUROS, pounds, AUD) and yet you spend in that same currency, so you really have to bust your butt.

    However, if you're even making $800US online, even if it's by offering services, you need to buy a plane ticket out to Thailand ASAP. $800 US is a comfortable wage here...

    You'll find that you can work a lot less, enjoy life a lot more and still save money if you earn in a strong currency.

    I don't know about you guys, but I'm in this game so that I can actually ENJOY my life, hang out with cute chicks, drink some beer, play guitar, chill on the beach, train jiu jitsu and whatever else floats YOUR boat.

    In the "west", you have to earn a disproportionate income to live like a human being. But if you can leverage your currency, you'll find that life has a lot more to offer than just 24/7 hustle.

    Just to put it in perspective, I was in Miami Beach prior to coming out to Thailand and I paid $1200 US for an apartment, probably $600 for food a month, and some other random expenses. I basically broke even each month, spending about $3000/mo.

    Here's I'm spending about $800/mo, work less, go on day trips to interesting places, hang out more with cool people and travelers and generally work to live rather than live to work.

    This isn't a "look at me and how cool I am because I'm in Asia" thread. It's a "look at YOU, wouldn't you rather be living a nice lifestyle for a lot less" thread.

    Any questions? Will be happy to answer. Peace -Vic

    Hey mate,

    I'm down in Phuket.. been here since November training at Phuket Top Team. All funded by my internet business.

    I'm in quite a tourist area so its a bit more expensive here.. I couldn't live in $800 a month anyway.. Spent $2,300 in my first month lol
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  • Profile picture of the author CPA Monster
    Interesting thread love it , many things especially economy, living cost, facilities, food, culture and transportation system discovered here ..just WOW !!!
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  • Profile picture of the author GFox
    Thanks for your very timely post. I have been thinking a lot about leaving the U.S. and migrating to another country that is not as stressful. My sights were set on Belize, Costa Rica and Panama, but now I will definitely consider Thailand.
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  • Profile picture of the author sirtiman
    Just don't stay and live to Brunei Darussalam.
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  • Profile picture of the author faisalmaximus
    I am also from South-Asian country, but now living in west. From my own experience, though living cost is low in South-Asia, the living standard is also low comparing to that of western countries.

    In Western countries, people get all the benefits which a human being should get, but many South Asian countries doesn't provide proper facility to live as a human being, sometimes people are not treated as human. So, from deeper point of view, WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE BEST from all respect.
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    • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
      Originally Posted by faisalmaximus View Post

      I am also from South-Asian country, but now living in west. From my own experience, though living cost is low in South-Asia, the living standard is also low comparing to that of western countries.

      In Western countries, people get all the benefits which a human being should get, but many South Asian countries doesn't provide proper facility to live as a human being, sometimes people are not treated as human. So, from deeper point of view, WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE BEST from all respect.
      This thread is not about "South-Asia" or "South Asian".

      Nobody in this thread suggested that South Asian countries are desirable.
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      • Profile picture of the author faisalmaximus
        Originally Posted by BarberShop View Post

        This thread is not about "South-Asia" or "South Asian".

        Nobody in this thread suggested that South Asian countries are desirable.
        Sorry for my misunderstanding, the thread was about southeast Asia, but my experience is about South Asia. I didn't notice it properly.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by greenowl123 View Post

      Colombia would probably be a good choice. The economy there is booming right now, as well as in Chile and Peru. Some of the most gorgeous women in the world there too.

      Not sure about Argentina though...their economy is not good at the moment. I would consider their neighbor Montevideo, Uruguay before Argentina.

      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Hmm, interesting - I have to say that I'd consider their "neighbor" Ecuador way in front of either of those two, myself.

      This is where the needs of the individual come into play again...


      Colombia is at a crossroads right now... They have always followed
      the Washington Consensus, but there are powerful forces right now
      trying to move them toward the Beijing Consensus. In my opinion,
      this would be disadvantageous for them as a country, and catastrophic
      for the poor and lower middle class citizens of their country. They
      are at an important crossroads as they try to overcome several
      natural challenges while mining their natural resources in an
      effective way-- I want to be a part of the solution that helps
      them to grow in a way that helps all of their people, and not
      just the rich and powerful.


      Argentina is a case that is particularly close to my heart... They
      have made college completely tuition free and open to everyone
      in an attempt to help young people have a better chance for
      upward mobility.

      Sadly, college is still far too expensive for many young people.
      Books, living space, food-- to say nothing of computers and
      other basic needs. Many businesses are price-gouging and there
      is little the government can do to control it effectively.

      Likewise, there is not a solid standard for exams and those who
      do graduate from the public Universities have their credibility
      hurt. To me, this means there is massive opportunity here.
      Not only to start scholarships for these young people to help
      pay for basic needs of going to college, but also to develop
      teaching programs that take advantage of their naturally
      strong skills in mathematics while avoiding the dogmatic
      lack of critical thinking skills that tends to permeate their
      society as a whole. More than any other struggling,
      developing country in the world right now, Argentina has
      the chance to literally educate itself into a 1st world country
      over the next two or three generations. Stop and think
      a moment about how amazing that possibility is.

      I want to be a part of that!!




      Originally Posted by faisalmaximus View Post

      I am also from South-Asian country, but now living in west. From my own experience, though living cost is low in South-Asia, the living standard is also low comparing to that of western countries.

      In Western countries, people get all the benefits which a human being should get, but many South Asian countries doesn't provide proper facility to live as a human being, sometimes people are not treated as human. So, from deeper point of view, WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE BEST from all respect.
      A basic value of human life should probably be an
      important factor for anyone thinking of moving to
      any country. Great point!
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      • Profile picture of the author tigertale
        Any suggestions where a single early 60's healthy woman would live in a less crowded unpolluted area where people enjoy the outdoors. (I'm into hiking, backpacking, flat water kayaking, etc.

        I speak only English, need Internet, live pretty simply, won't eat raw fishies.

        Note, not all US Hospitals are that safe and some places in the US are downright scary.
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        • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
          Originally Posted by tigertale View Post

          Any suggestions where a single early 60's healthy woman would live in a less crowded unpolluted area where people enjoy the outdoors. (I'm into hiking, backpacking, flat water kayaking, etc.

          I speak only English, need Internet, live pretty simply, won't eat raw fishies.

          Note, not all US Hospitals are that safe and some places in the US are downright scary.


          New Zealand
          British Columbia (if you have money)
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
          Originally Posted by tigertale View Post

          won't eat raw fishies.


          I couldn't live without my sashimi!!
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        • Profile picture of the author bonesaj
          Originally Posted by tigertale View Post

          Any suggestions where a single early 60's healthy woman would live in a less crowded unpolluted area where people enjoy the outdoors. (I'm into hiking, backpacking, flat water kayaking, etc.

          I speak only English, need Internet, live pretty simply, won't eat raw fishies.

          Note, not all US Hospitals are that safe and some places in the US are downright scary.
          Come down under to Australia

          You can live on the beautiful coast line in a small town, quite hot tho depending what part you live in, arguably some of the best beaches in the world though!

          hiking is great here too

          the further north you live in australia the warmer it is 40-50 celcius up north, but beautiful blue skies nearly every day of the year

          But Australia is more expensive than the US soooo maybe not the best option
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

        This is where the needs of the individual come into play again...


        Colombia is at a crossroads right now... They have always followed
        the Washington Consensus, but there are powerful forces right now
        trying to move them toward the Beijing Consensus. In my opinion,
        this would be disadvantageous for them as a country, and catastrophic
        for the poor and lower middle class citizens of their country. They
        are at an important crossroads as they try to overcome several
        natural challenges while mining their natural resources in an
        effective way-- I want to be a part of the solution that helps
        them to grow in a way that helps all of their people, and not
        just the rich and powerful.


        Argentina is a case that is particularly close to my heart... They
        have made college completely tuition free and open to everyone
        in an attempt to help young people have a better chance for
        upward mobility.

        Sadly, college is still far too expensive for many young people.
        Books, living space, food-- to say nothing of computers and
        other basic needs. Many businesses are price-gouging and there
        is little the government can do to control it effectively.

        Likewise, there is not a solid standard for exams and those who
        do graduate from the public Universities have their credibility
        hurt. To me, this means there is massive opportunity here.
        Not only to start scholarships for these young people to help
        pay for basic needs of going to college, but also to develop
        teaching programs that take advantage of their naturally
        strong skills in mathematics while avoiding the dogmatic
        lack of critical thinking skills that tends to permeate their
        society as a whole. More than any other struggling,
        developing country in the world right now, Argentina has
        the chance to literally educate itself into a 1st world country
        over the next two or three generations. Stop and think
        a moment about how amazing that possibility is.

        I want to be a part of that!!


        A basic value of human life should probably be an
        important factor for anyone thinking of moving to
        any country. Great point!


        Bill Gates 2013 Annual Letter
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        • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          This part...

          Argentina is a case that is particularly close to my heart... They
          have made college completely tuition free and open to everyone
          in an attempt to help young people have a better chance for
          upward mobility.

          Sadly, college is still far too expensive for many young people.
          Books, living space, food-- to say nothing of computers and
          other basic needs. Many businesses are price-gouging and there
          is little the government can do to control it effectively.

          Likewise, there is not a solid standard for exams and those who
          do graduate from the public Universities have their credibility
          hurt. To me, this means there is massive opportunity here.
          Not only to start scholarships for these young people to help
          pay for basic needs of going to college, but also to develop
          teaching programs that take advantage of their naturally
          strong skills in mathematics while avoiding the dogmatic
          lack of critical thinking skills that tends to permeate their
          society as a whole. More than any other struggling,
          developing country in the world right now, Argentina has
          the chance to literally educate itself into a 1st world country
          over the next two or three generations. Stop and think
          a moment about how amazing that possibility is.

          I want to be a part of that!!
          Irritates me to no end... I studied and taught at public university. Free university. It was THE BEST university. Those who couldn´t make it at public university for being too tough moved to private where they could buy the titles.

          When I moved to US, they gave me Master degree for my degree in Physics. Because the programs in US for collage are so scattered in real information about the subject being studied, that my focused degree subjects covered the master level.

          The education used to be superb, before we introduced the programs from United nations. Then we had to just adjust to kids who didn´t know enough because teachers could not correct things like spelling and grammar, or teach them enough hard core math or problem solving.

          Education is horrible right now by design. We actually jump loops and educate our kids right under the cord, with silent agreements with the teachers, they can´t correct mistakes but the parents can, they can´t teach the kids algorithms that work, but we can.

          Those who were taught under this new system cannot help their kids and education is going downhill fast, increasing dependency on the government for survival.

          All this by design.

          Bil Gates... I remember that guy.. it is this one?


          interesting conversation, especially the last 30 sec. Just as a side note: co2 is what we breadth out and plants breadth in, the worse thing that could happen if it raises is to have more plants.

          And the planet is not heating. Remember the question about war between the tropics... I´ll give you a hint. You put 2+2 together...

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          • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
            Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

            This part...

            Irritates me to no end... I studied and taught at public university. Free university. It was THE BEST university. Those who couldn´t make it at public university for being too tough moved to private where they could buy the titles.
            Apologies for irritating you. You studied in Argentina?
            Or at another free University somewhere else?
            ...Yes, many people are going to continue to buy their paper titles
            elsewhere, especially with the rapid decline of what was once
            the best universities.


            Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

            When I moved to US, they gave me Master degree for my degree in Physics. Because the programs in US for collage are so scattered in real information about the subject being studied, that my focused degree subjects covered the master level.
            Excellent for you, but I cannot really say that I am surprised.
            I am doing my best to refrain from going off on a tirade about
            the dismal state of education in the US right now.


            Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

            The education used to be superb, before we introduced the programs from United nations. Then we had to just adjust to kids who didn´t know enough because teachers could not correct things like spelling and grammar, or teach them enough hard core math or problem solving.
            Agreed 100%. Another great opportunity in Argentina, where a
            small but determined number of people want to maintain and grow
            the systems that are best for their people.

            Don't get me wrong-- I strongly believe that they need to remove
            a lot of the dogma and improve their critical thinking skills many
            times over, but if I believed that American/UN-style education
            was moving in the right direction-- Or even had a chance to
            move in the best way for students sometime in the next couple
            of decades-- I would stay in the States and be a part of that.


            Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

            Education is horrible right now by design. We actually jump loops and educate our kids right under the cord, with silent agreements with the teachers, they can´t correct mistakes but the parents can, they can´t teach the kids algorithms that work, but we can.

            Those who were taught under this new system cannot help their kids and education is going downhill fast, increasing dependency on the government for survival.

            All this by design.
            Again, I agree, although I don't think this was purposeful design,
            so much as greedy people skimming off the top, and struggling
            governments unable and/or unwilling to make tough choices to
            invest in education because it takes decades to repay the investment,
            especially under the pressure of urgent financial challenges and
            the fact that they have to try to get elected again soon.



            Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

            Bil Gates... I remember that guy.. it is this one?

            Bill Gates wants a Billion Dead! Vaccines and Health Care will do the Job! - YouTube

            interesting conversation, especially the last 30 sec. Just as a side note: co2 is what we breadth out and plants breadth in, the worse thing that could happen if it raises is to have more plants.
            The last thing I want to do is have this turn into a Global Warming
            debate, but I do want to point out that that video is grossly
            misrepresenting his point. It is the worst kind of propaganda,
            with a sensationalist title, and cutting off halfway through his point
            to make it look like his words mean something other than what
            they do.

            It is a PERFECT example of what I mean when I describe the
            horrible lack of critical thinking skills in education right now,
            in most of the world, that a video like that can be taken
            seriously by one of the most intelligent people I know.


            Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

            And the planet is not heating. Remember the question about war between the tropics... I´ll give you a hint. You put 2+2 together...

            I would be happy to discuss the idea of Global Warming
            with you in another setting. I have zero doubt that you
            are far more intelligent than I am, but I do know many
            physicists and professors across the scientific spectrum,
            and you are one of the very few intelligent, highly educated,
            non-politically motivated people that I have ever heard
            make this claim. (I am also very interested in your claim
            that the best cancer doctors are exiled from the US
            into Mexico because they don't agree with 'traditional'
            practices?)

            But I will add this because it is a bit more on topic:
            From what I do know that some of the reasons for strife
            between the tropics include weather problems, but more
            than that, the lack of easily mined energy resources
            along with sustainable food growth and distribution,
            all increased exponentially with a lopsided educational
            system, usually strong in a few key areas such as math
            and calculations, but falling farther and farther behind
            in most other areas.

            Which, of course, means there is a lot of opportunity
            for problem solvers, if they can also get through a lot
            of the political challenges they will face when trying
            to help small countries progress into the current century.

            But hey, we are warriors, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    Good post, and very tempting, but I would never trade the U.S for any country. Born and raised here, and will die here

    Now taking trips down there, is a different story

    May be easy for a young buck like you to just get up and leave, but for many of us with families and homes, it's not an option

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  • Profile picture of the author faisalmaximus
    No Doubt, USA is the best place to live.
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  • Profile picture of the author thedanbrown
    Cool post man!

    A friend of mine is in Thailand right now too, his name is Taigh Smyth and he works online as well.

    He took me on a little video tour of his place and the surroundings yesterday and it was pretty sweet!

    Definitely beats out the -20 Celsius weather I'm enduring up here in the Great North haha
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Tons of people up in CM making money doing all sorts, met lots of poker players up there too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
    What about Visa?

    And other things.. Enlighten me on those issues and I'm sold.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
      Originally Posted by Intrepreneur View Post

      What about Visa?

      And other things.. Enlighten me on those issues and I'm sold.
      Visa issues for Thailand is one of the lets say challenging issues for long term stats depending on your situation but where there is a will there is a way.

      here are the options

      1.) For just visiting you get a visa upon entry which is valid for 30 days as long as you fly into Thailand, if you come over one of the land borders it is just 15 days

      2.) If you are a young person (under 50) then the easiest one will be a multiple entry tourist visa, triple entry if you can, a double entry is easy and can be obtained from your in country Thai consulate.

      The Tourist visa allows you to stay for 2 months with each entry, at the end of 2 months you can go to the Immigration office and get a one month extension so a double entry can be extended from 4 months to 6 months

      3.) If you are over 50 you can apply for a 12 month O Visa which allows you to stay in the country for 3 months then you must leave the country but can come right back in when I had this visa it was a great excuse to see the surrounding countries such as LAOS, CAMBODIA, MYANMAR, VIETNAM, MALAYSIA SINGAPORE then when you come back in you have another 3 months before having to leave again.

      The O Visa can be extended at the end of it for an additional 3 months by visiting immigration prior to it expiring making it a total of 15 months

      Once people know they want to stay many will enroll in a Thai Language course and apply for a year long ED Visa (education visa) you only have to attend 4 hours a week to qualify and the school you sign up with provides you all the paperwork for your visa, all you need to do is visit one of the surrounding countries and apply for your ED Visa.

      4.)A lot of us are married to thai women so if you happen to get Married then you have the option of staying year round, you will need to provide all the paperwork Marriage cert etc and get an O Visa based on married to a Thai there is a list of requirements but once it is issued you can travel to Thailand and it will be for 3 months only prior to the end of 3 months you will need to visit Immigration with your wife along with a bank book showing 400,000 thai baht (about $15,000 USA in your account and it must of been in your account for 2-3 months and cannot fall below that amount (cant remember) once all your paperwork and money is checked you will receive an extension of stay based on married to a thai.
      '
      What that means is you no longer have to leave the country all you have to do is report to Immigration every 3 months to report your current address. At the end of 12 months you just go back to Immigration with your bank book showing you have $15,0000 in there and it has been there untouched for at least 2 months and they will extend your visa for another 12 months without having to leave the country.

      If you did want to leave the country you just purchase a re entry permit for $30 which allows you to leave and come back without it affecting your Marriage extension.

      RETIREMENT VISA

      If you are over 50 you can also apply for a retirement visa which is the same as above except you have to deposit 800,000 thai baht (about $28,000 USD) in a bank account and dont touch it for 2 months and you will get a retirment visa which allows you the same as the Marriage visa.

      Most people do visa runs and live on a tourist visa although its technically not the correct visa but its the easiest method for most that want to stay a year or 2

      Hope that helps

      Gaz Cooper
      Amz Training Academy
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      • Profile picture of the author Rainmaking
        Oh my ... A can of worms has just been opened here!

        From spirited discussions of exotic beaches in Thailand to bantering about politics while offering in-depth write-ups about day-to-day standards of living in faraway, mystical lands filled with legendary beauties and strange foods ... You Warriors are true Citizens of the World.

        The World has become smaller, more connected and open.

        And young people these days have become less concerned with stability - choosing to gallivant around the world after graduation while figuring out their next moves.

        It seems the ability to be location independent, while enjoying a certain standard of living, is really what draws many folks into this arena.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Visas for where? Every country is different.

    Thailand you'll be able to get a 90 day visa and then will have to renew it when it runs out by leaving the country and getting a new visa in a neighbouring country. Cambodia you can buy a 'business' visa for $60 on arrival (anyone gets one) and stay for 6 months.
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  • Profile picture of the author gonzotrucker
    Philippine's tourist visa will cost $100 every 2 month's.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jensha
    Cool post! This is why exactly I want to learn about internet marketing. I live in the Philippines and a lot of foreigners are going here trying to invest their $1000 to start their own call center company by getting foreign clients. So I was like what!? The hell, I'm already here, maybe I can do the same thing and I thought of starting out through IM. I'm still new, but as god is my witness I'll be successful like all of you. Just give me a year or two.
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  • Profile picture of the author syda
    Living in Asia and working online is my plan as well. I'm a bit worried though, where is it safe for a woman to live alone and have all the same rights and opportunities that men do?
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    • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
      Originally Posted by syda View Post

      Living in Asia and working online is my plan as well. I'm a bit worried though, where is it safe for a woman to live alone and have all the same rights and opportunities that men do?
      I can only really comment on Thailand, It's certainly a mans world out here but they still have a woman Prime Minister as well as lots of women in high government positions.
      I wouldn't say there's the same sexual equality as the west but as a female expat you would be treated with respect.

      Up here in Chiang Mai I would describe as very safe and there are a lot of expat single ladies living here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Summer1
    It also depends which country you live in SE Asia, because they have different imigiration laws.

    Visa. Be careful with this matter, because if you don't have working visa, and you earn money, not paying tax, and if they catch you, you'll have some problems.

    For men, if you happen to marry asian ladies, you will have to marry their families too. (financially).

    As for someone who has a kid or two, while everything is cheaper, the education is night and day compared to Europe. (not sure in USA). I raised my first kid in SE Asia until he was 5 years old, he went to international school where built especially for expat kids, and it's totally different than in Europe.

    There, kids learn many languages, computer and stuff, but they never taught to be more independent, because they are mostly living at home with nannies, drivers or even maids.

    Here, in Europe, computer is introduced to kids first when he is at the 5-6 grade in school, before that, they learn how to keep going with other kids, sports, and most importantly, they need to be more independent because we don't have maids or nannies :-)

    Being more independent for kids are very important, be it for now, and for their future.

    Traffic Accident is terrible, because once you can drive a car or motorbike, you're allowed to make driving license, in Europe, you'll need to go special driving school, and you have to be at least 18.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi,

      Blimey, read the whole thread and no one mentions the UK.

      * We have great weather throughout the whole of the last week of June. Occasionally.

      * the borders are completely open to anyone (returning British are subject to stringent checks though) - any problems can be solved easily with cheap, plentiful sham-marriages

      * expats here don't need to worry about legalities like driving licence/car tax/insurance/law in general, especially if they own a bank

      * expat communities here have their own thriving black-market economies

      * the government will bend over backwards to provide interpreters, assistance with claiming benefits and will move any British people down the housing list to make way for foreigners

      * it's virtually impossible for a foreigner to be removed from the country (for foreigners, it's like the 'Hotel California')

      * foreigners have more rights than indigenous British, who are at the bottom of the ladder in every way, but pay the most for being here

      * food is available from almost every country in the world on most high streets, just be careful when buying 'beef' burgers from British shops. If you like Halal meat, you're in luck. If you don't, you're not. If you look hard enough, you might find a few lettuces that haven't been ritually slaughtered.

      .............

      Just be aware that if you walk down a typical street, you may have to spend time giving directions to confused local indigenous types, who will be completely lost, incapable of recognising the streets they were raised upon. There is also a bit of a problem with locals begging off rich expats.

      :rolleyes:

      Originally Posted by Stevie C View Post

      I wouldn't say there's the same sexual equality as the west but as a female expat you would be treated with respect.
      Fixed that for you -

      'I wouldn't say there's the same sexual inequality as the west.'

      LINK LINK LINK LINK etc
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      • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi,

        Blimey, read the whole thread and no one mentions the UK.
        Because the whole point of this thread is so that when your restaurant bill comes to $10, you get to take home your hot asian waitress & her best friend, not get smacked in the head by a Piers Morgan look-alike asking for 5 bucks more.
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      • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi,

        Blimey, read the whole thread and no one mentions the UK.

        * We have great weather throughout the whole of the last week of June. Occasionally.

        * the borders are completely open to anyone (returning British are subject to stringent checks though) - any problems can be solved easily with cheap, plentiful sham-marriages

        * expats here don't need to worry about legalities like driving licence/car tax/insurance/law in general, especially if they own a bank

        * expat communities here have their own thriving black-market economies

        * the government will bend over backwards to provide interpreters, assistance with claiming benefits and will move any British people down the housing list to make way for foreigners

        * it's virtually impossible for a foreigner to be removed from the country (for foreigners, it's like the 'Hotel California')

        * foreigners have more rights than indigenous British, who are at the bottom of the ladder in every way, but pay the most for being here

        * food is available from almost every country in the world on most high streets, just be careful when buying 'beef' burgers from British shops. If you like Halal meat, you're in luck. If you don't, you're not. If you look hard enough, you might find a few lettuces that haven't been ritually slaughtered.

        .............

        Just be aware that if you walk down a typical street, you may have to spend time giving directions to confused local indigenous types, who will be completely lost, incapable of recognising the streets they were raised upon. There is also a bit of a problem with locals begging off rich expats.

        :rolleyes:



        Fixed that for you -

        'I wouldn't say there's the same sexual inequality as the west.'

        LINK LINK LINK LINK etc

        Ha ha ha ! Gotta love that British ironic humor !

        You just described the USA too (whether you realize it or not). Except for the weather.

        I wonder if your immigrants (legal or illegal) are of the same quality as the immigrants in the good old USA
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi greenowl123,

          Originally Posted by greenowl123 View Post

          Ha ha ha ! Gotta love that British ironic humor !

          You just described the USA too (whether you realize it or not). Except for the weather.

          I wonder if your immigrants (legal or illegal) are of the same quality as the immigrants in the good old USA
          Yeah, I read a lot about the USA. I think you're a little bit ahead of us in creating a dystopian nightmare.

          I was in San Bruno about 8 or so years ago. I wandered into a launderette the one time where no one seemed to speak the language. I tried socialising in the pubs a bit and found that shockingly, the people I met were more stressed out than Brits. One bloke I chatted to, no sooner than we'd got past introductions, proceeded with an unstoppable rant about immigrants.

          It was all a bit tense, so I spent the next day in Haight & Ashbury to wind down.
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          • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi greenowl123,

            It was all a bit tense, so I spent the next day in Haight & Ashbury to wind down.
            Haight-ashbury? I was just there and witnessed a crackhead gang accost a delivery guy and rip off his slice of pizza on his pallet jack as he was trying to do his job. Not the nice ol harmless world peace pot smoking crowd anymore.
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi NewParadigm,

              Originally Posted by NewParadigm View Post

              Haight-ashbury? I was just there and witnessed a crackhead gang accost a delivery guy and rip off his slice of pizza on his pallet jack as he was trying to do his job. Not the nice ol harmless world peace pot smoking crowd anymore.
              Did I mention that I also stopped for a drink in Detroit once, which seemed like a nice town? Apparently, I have the negative midas touch
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  • Profile picture of the author martyJames
    Im living in Thiland currently (N.E.) and yes, quality of life is GOOD and costs are relatively low - im from Australia where living is very expensive. You can rent a house here for about $300 per month. A decent meal out is $5 - $8 , taxis around town $2. Great retirement option to consider.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    I'd be checking those cute chicks for hidden surprises!
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  • Profile picture of the author tamalanwar
    I have a friend who is from Canada and living a life in Thailand.

    I live in Bangladesh and the cost of living a better life is tremendous! If you have roughly $300/month you can have a great living.

    If you can pay $500/mo then you can live a killer one here in my place. Great for internet marketers.

    Rent is about $100-150/mo
    Food is about $50-100/mo

    Electricity+Gas+Phone+Internet: $50/mo
    Commuting around the city: $1-5

    If you are from UK/US/Aus or any other country, you may not even need a VISA, just the passport and 60 day visa, then renew it for 60 days again.

    The weather in my country is very good, not so cool not so warm and has lots of cool natural places to watch. People are good and helpful.

    If you need more info then you can ask/PM me.
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    • Profile picture of the author faisalmaximus
      Originally Posted by tamalanwar View Post

      I have a friend who is from Canada and living a life in Thailand.

      I live in Bangladesh and the cost of living a better life is tremendous! If you have roughly $300/month you can have a great living.

      If you can pay $500/mo then you can live a killer one here in my place. Great for internet marketers.

      Rent is about $100-150/mo
      Food is about $50-100/mo

      Electricity+Gas+Phone+Internet: $50/mo
      Commuting around the city: $1-5

      If you are from UK/US/Aus or any other country, you may not even need a VISA, just the passport and 60 day visa, then renew it for 60 days again.

      The weather in my country is very good, not so cool not so warm and has lots of cool natural places to watch. People are good and helpful.

      If you need more info then you can ask/PM me.
      The environment is important. Moreover-
      - All kinds of foods of your country comes with poisonous chemicals, fish with formalin, fruits with chemicals, vegetables with insecticides - no govt to see.
      - There is no security in your country, not even inside of home, not in your bedroom. Where the prime minister itself says, they can't provide security inside of bedroom.
      - All drivers are illiterate, they don't have knowledge of driving, they don't recognize any driving signs, civilized people can never drive (guaranteed).
      - Air full of toxic pollutants and carbon monoxide. You can't live without dust.
      - No health insurance, no pension insurance, no social security, in one word nothing. Don't compare this life with civilized western life, you don't even have knowledge about what is life.
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      • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
        Originally Posted by faisalmaximus View Post

        The environment is important. Moreover-
        - All kinds of foods of your country comes with poisonous chemicals, fish with formalin, fruits with chemicals, vegetables with insecticides - no govt to see.
        - There is no security in your country, not even inside of home, not in your bedroom. Where the prime minister itself says, they can't provide security inside of bedroom.
        - All drivers are illiterate, they don't have knowledge of driving, they don't recognize any driving signs, civilized people can never drive (guaranteed).
        - Air full of toxic pollutants and carbon monoxide. You can't live without dust.
        - No health insurance, no pension insurance, no social security, in one word nothing. Don't compare this life with civilized western life, you don't even have knowledge about what is life.
        But enough about Los Angeles...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
    Banned
    I just got back from a 2 and a half weeks trip to Cambodia, Thailand and Singapore. I could definitely see myself living in Cambodia, it was amazing, the people are nice, and I can get a nice meal for dollar 50. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
      Originally Posted by eljeffe77 View Post

      I just got back from a 2 and a half weeks trip to Cambodia, Thailand and Singapore. I could definitely see myself living in Cambodia, it was amazing, the people are nice, and I can get a nice meal for dollar 50. :-)

      I was in Cambodia early Jan for the second time and it really is cheap but very far behind Thailand in many ways. If Thailand throws me out Cambodia will be the next spot or Phillipines
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Gaz Cooper View Post

        I was in Cambodia early Jan for the second time and it really is cheap but very far behind Thailand in many ways. If Thailand throws me out Cambodia will be the next spot or Phillipines
        Very cool gaz, :-) where did you go? I went to Phnom Penh, and siem reap. Phnom Penh was crazy traffic wise more congested etc. I think I preferred siem reap. Plus they(Cambodians) speak much Much much better English than they did on koh samui Thailand.

        Forgive any typos I'm writing this with Siri
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        • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
          Originally Posted by eljeffe77 View Post

          Very cool gaz, :-) where did you go? I went to Phnom Penh, and siem reap. Phnom Penh was crazy traffic wise more congested etc. I think I preferred siem reap. Plus they(Cambodians) speak much Much much better English than they did on koh samui Thailand.

          Forgive any typos I'm writing this with Siri
          I was in Phnom Penh to get my Thai visa so spent a week there played a bit of Poker (thats illegal in Thailand) yeah traffic is insane way worse that Thailand and Thailand is BAD lol.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Gaz Cooper View Post

            traffic is insane way worse that Thailand and Thailand is BAD lol.
            Well, none of us can run a business without traffic, right, Gaz?!
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            • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Well, none of us can run a business without traffic, right, Gaz?!
              Haha very true Alexa
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          • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
            Any suggestions where a single early 60's healthy woman would live in a less crowded unpolluted area where people enjoy the outdoors. (I'm into hiking, backpacking, flat water kayaking, etc.

            I speak only English, need Internet, live pretty simply, won't eat raw fishies.
            Northern Thailand would fit the bill. Chaing Mai is a lovely and relatively small feeling city with not too much traffic or pollution, nearbye mountains, lots of trekking and rafting opportunities (and I suppose kayaking too) as well as jungle treks, elephant treks, zip lining and more.

            Lots of people up there working online, it's cheap, English is spoken.

            Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

            I used the SEO example because that's what most people here actually build around. The whole point I was trying to make was exactly what your saying. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

            If you feel satisfied with making $3,000 a month and moving to asia then by all means go have fun, but don't come crying 5-10 years down the road when that $3,000 a month isn't good enough to sustain your life anymore and the opportunities that are available now, aren't around anymore.

            The point I'm trying to get across to people is that seeking immediate pleasure can be a terrible plan for your future. Make sacrifices for a year and build your business and become successful at all costs. Traveling across the world to live in an exotic place just because it's 'cheaper' isn't a smart business plan.
            Going somewhere that's cheaper when running an online business IS a smart business plan, that means you've more money to invest in your business than you would at home. You can also live a better quality of life. You don't have to stop at earning $3,000 per month, you can keep on earning more whilst out there, no one is suggesting you stop working or give up.


            Originally Posted by syda View Post

            Living in Asia and working online is my plan as well. I'm a bit worried though, where is it safe for a woman to live alone and have all the same rights and opportunities that men do?
            Most of Asia apart from the middle east.

            Originally Posted by Gaz Cooper View Post

            I was in Phnom Penh to get my Thai visa so spent a week there played a bit of Poker (thats illegal in Thailand) yeah traffic is insane way worse that Thailand and Thailand is BAD lol.
            Traffic in BKK is ten times worse than that of PP. Neither is anywhere as bad as Hanoi or Saigon, 18 lanes of motorbikes coming at your non stop, no traffic lights, no stopping, no rules 24/7...just walk out into the road in between them all and hope for the best.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Living in these countries is not all that. If you're young and in good health, fine.

    At the end of the day, these places are not really your "home" unless you marry a local, maybe have children.

    Not to mention things lacking we take for granted such as modern healthcare. What happens if you suffer from cancer, for example? The world's best oncologists do not practise in developing countries, nor can you get affordable access to the best drugs that you need, maybe not even the basic ones.

    And what if something should happen to you? In Thailand, what if a local accuses the "farang" of some crime, slips a few Baht to a policeman, the next thing you find yourself in jail and your embassy refusing to help you.

    A friend of mine was arrested for simply being in the same building as a suspect, his blood was tested and found positive for marijuana metabolites (he did not even smoke any in Thailand) and he was sent to jail.

    If there's one thing I want to avoid more than anything else in these "exotic" countries, it's getting banged up in jail. I've seen too many episodes of "Locked Up/Banged Up Abroad" for me to get a great fear of that!
    I received the worst healthcare of my life in US. The doctor just "forgot" to take the placenta out in the delivery and I almost died. I went to see a couple of attorneys about this and they did not take the case, because miraculously I had no long term effects (I did survive and actually had another child after). I asked the attorney if it was because I didn´t die, he smiled.

    Don´t get me wrong, if you are rich, US and Europe are the best places to live. If you are low or middle class, you better learn how to take care of your own and never have to set foot in the emergency room. The physical resources are great, the human resources are not even to say it nicely.

    About cancer, the best doctors I know of are in Mexico, exiled from US for using efficient yet not traditional systems.

    To the OP.
    The main issue with emerging countries is financial instability and inflation. The difference between the currencies can be great one day, but inflation can eat up that difference very fast if you are not careful.

    Look Argentina for example. Great place currency-wise 4 years ago, terrible right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Look Argentina for example. Great place currency-wise 4 years ago, terrible right now.
    Hence why it's better to be mobile and global. Able to go anywhere within a short space of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author AuthorityRush
    Hi Vic,

    I couldn't agree with you more! Been in Asia for 14 years now. Have a house in the big city and a beach house for the weekends. Beach house rent, $240 per month including utilities!

    And I'm living in Taiwan where it's "expensive'. Lol! You just can't live the quality of life I am for any where near the prices I am paying.

    In addition, people are so much friendlier and crime is about non-existent. Aggression and random acts of violence just do not happen here. Seriously. I've never felt safer any where else in the world. And a great core group of friends both locals and expats as well.

    I'd be pretty hard pressed to give up my life style. Although I am thinking of making a switch to Philippines or Vietnam just to "spread my wings" a little.
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  • Profile picture of the author bestIMtools
    I beg to differ.

    I was born and raised in the Dominican Republic and I prefer a Dominican doctor 100 times more than an American one. We have some of the best healthcare systems and you can actually see a doctor ANY DAY you want, without an appointment, for the cost of a U.S. copay. Actually, I go every year and get all my checkups done there, medical and dental.


    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Living in these countries is not all that. If you're young and in good health, fine.

    At the end of the day, these places are not really your "home" unless you marry a local, maybe have children.

    Not to mention things lacking we take for granted such as modern healthcare. What happens if you suffer from cancer, for example? The world's best oncologists do not practise in developing countries, nor can you get affordable access to the best drugs that you need, maybe not even the basic ones.

    And what if something should happen to you? In Thailand, what if a local accuses the "farang" of some crime, slips a few Baht to a policeman, the next thing you find yourself in jail and your embassy refusing to help you.

    A friend of mine was arrested for simply being in the same building as a suspect, his blood was tested and found positive for marijuana metabolites (he did not even smoke any in Thailand) and he was sent to jail.

    If there's one thing I want to avoid more than anything else in these "exotic" countries, it's getting banged up in jail. I've seen too many episodes of "Locked Up/Banged Up Abroad" for me to get a great fear of that!
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    • Profile picture of the author AuthorityRush
      Originally Posted by bestIMtools View Post

      I beg to differ.

      I was born and raised in the Dominican Republic and I prefer a Dominican doctor 100 times more than an American one. We have some of the best healthcare systems and you can actually see a doctor ANY DAY you want, without an appointment, for the cost of a U.S. copay. Actually, I go every year and get all my checkups done there, medical and dental.
      One of the big reasons I love living in Taiwan is the health care. I have had friends here have some pretty serious surgeries and paid less than $500! And most of the doctors are US taught and speak great English (my Chinese is horrible!). And the hospitals are top notch, at least here in Taipei, the capital city.

      Get a filling at the dentist, $3! Really! I've had 2 fillings plus a cleaning and a fluoride treatment done over a two day period. Total cost was less than US$15.

      Back in NY, that would have been hundreds. Ridiculous! And the docs are top notch. Most anyway. And there is government regulated pharmaceuticals. So the pharmaceutical companies can't rip you here which is sweet. Soooo cheap! Literally, all medicine you'd buy in the USA is anywhere from 10% to 30% of the cost here. Just can't be beat.

      A USA doctor is no better. My grandmother died because of a doctor's incompetence. She had a serious growth on her stomach. When finally hospitalized, the attending physician said any doctor should have caught it immediately. Hers didn't. She died on the operating table when the growth burst.

      That is fact, and not fiction. This was about three years ago. So the idea of USA doctors being "better" is a complete MYTH as far as I am concerned.
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  • Profile picture of the author rockong
    Both have its perks...I've thought about it as well, but with my friends and family being here, that's LIFE to me. You simply just have to earn more living where you want, instead of living somewhere just because you can possibly "save" more.

    Just like I always tell people, you get rich not JUST by saving, but by becoming a pro at MAKING money!
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Umm... There are well over a million doctors in the USA,
    and a great many of them are absolutely superb.
    I would not have traded the ones who treated my wife
    for any others in all the world.

    That being said, I do agree that Healthcare is horribly
    unfair for the poor and middle class, at the moment.
    (Not inviting a political discussion... Just quality/money)
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Umm... There are well over a million doctors in the USA,
      and a great many of them are absolutely superb.
      I would not have traded the ones who treated my wife
      for any others in all the world.

      That being said, I do agree that Healthcare is horribly
      unfair for the poor and middle class, at the moment.
      (Not inviting a political discussion... Just quality/money)

      You said it.

      U.S. has the best healthcare system in the world...for the rich only.

      That's the saying, anyway...
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Umm... There are well over a million doctors in the USA,
      and a great many of them are absolutely superb.
      I would not have traded the ones who treated my wife
      for any others in all the world.
      Yep, and more than 20% of them are Indian.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post


        Anyway... there are some things were you are right. An interesting question to ask is why most of the instabilities happen between the tropics.

        But that is not a discussion for this forum.
        Very interesting indeed, with few exceptions like
        Singapore and Hong Kong... But yeah, another forum.




        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        Yep, and more than 20% of them are Indian.

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        Yeah, I will refrain from ranting about the
        state of education in the USA, except to say that
        there are a lot of reasons why so many people
        are turning to IM!
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  • Profile picture of the author AuthorityRush
    To be honest guys, I think the whole "US has best health care system in the world" stuff is a load of bunk. And I am speaking from experience.

    I'd agree with schooling to become a doctor is top notch in America. And most of the doctors here are schooled in the US.

    But as far as hospitals being better, doctors being better, no. It just isn't the truth. But I am also speaking about Taiwan, which is considered a "rich" country. I am sure in other lower income places around th world things are different.
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    • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
      Originally Posted by William C Allen View Post

      I'd agree with schooling to become a doctor is top notch in America. And most of the doctors here are schooled in the US.
      Only if you went to Johns Hopkins, Harvard, etc. But would I trust someone who went to ASU over someone who went to University of Toronto? I'd hold on to the tumor for a little bit more thank you very much.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
        Originally Posted by BarberShop View Post

        Only if you went to Johns Hopkins, Harvard, etc. But would I trust someone who went to ASU over someone who went to University of Toronto? I'd hold on to the tumor for a little bit more thank you very much.
        I don´t know. I would probably trust more someone from a smaller university who studied out of passion than someone of a bigger university who treat his/her practice "as a business".
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        • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
          Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

          I don´t know. I would probably trust more someone from a smaller university who studied out of passion than someone of a bigger university who treat his/her practice "as a business".

          ASU is where strippers go when they say "I'm stripping for my tuition."
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          • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
            Originally Posted by BarberShop View Post

            ASU is where strippers go when they say "I'm stripping for my tuition."
            Ohh...

            well, they surely know about human anatomy and physiology, don´t they?
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            • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
              Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

              Ohh...

              well, they surely know about human anatomy and physiology, don´t they?

              Good point. I'll get to the bottom of it.
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              • Profile picture of the author wesd22
                The OP is incredibly over-simplified.

                I live in the US and have lived in Third World countries.

                There is a reason it costs more to live in the US.

                We have the best health care. We have RELIABLE telecomunications/utilities/internet, etc. We have good infrastructure. And so on.

                If you want to live for $800 a month, you will be living a Third World existence - not a First World one in the Third World. I could live for that much in a small town in Mississipi and it would give me a similar standard of living as that in some tiny crappy "apartment" in Thailand or Vietnam.

                And don't get me started on political stability and civil rights.

                The Third World is dirty, unstable in every sense of the word, subpar from a health perspective, and so on. Fine, if all you care about is banging a hooker every night cheaply and living in a crappy apartment getting crappy health care and no civil rights, go ahead. But if you want to live a secure, stable life close to family, forget about it.
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                • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
                  And this post is an example of why the US is ranked lowest in Education.

                  Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                  The OP is incredibly over-simplified.

                  I live in the US and have lived in Third World countries.

                  There is a reason it costs more to live in the US.

                  We have the best health care. We have RELIABLE telecomunications/utilities/internet, etc. We have good infrastructure. And so on.

                  If you want to live for $800 a month, you will be living a Third World existence - not a First World one in the Third World. I could live for that much in a small town in Mississipi and it would give me a similar standard of living as that in some tiny crappy "apartment" in Thailand or Vietnam.

                  And don't get me started on political stability and civil rights.

                  The Third World is dirty, unstable in every sense of the word, subpar from a health perspective, and so on. Fine, if all you care about is banging a hooker every night cheaply and living in a crappy apartment getting crappy health care and no civil rights, go ahead. But if you want to live a secure, stable life close to family, forget about it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author wesd22
                    Originally Posted by BarberShop View Post

                    And this post is an example of why the US is ranked lowest in Education.
                    Go live in a $2k apartment in Nashville and then go live in a $200 one in Vietnam and come back and tell me about how awesome the Third World is. You're not getting First World living in Southeast Asia at these low prices.
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                    • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
                      Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                      Go live in a $2k apartment in Nashville and then go live in a $200 one in Vietnam and come back and tell me about how awesome the Third World is. You're not getting First World living in Southeast Asia at these low prices.
                      I don´t know anything about Southeast Asia, since I have never been there, but I would think that they would have bad sections in each major city, and sections where people with high incomes live (most likely private, gated communities with 24 hour security guards).

                      But I have lived in Lima, Peru for 6 years now, and live very comfortably (and never been robbed, raped , etc.)

                      Do a quick YouTube search for "jockey plaza lima peru" or "san isidro lima peru"

                      The mall Jockey Plaza is just as nice (or nicer) than any mall I have seen in the USA, and I have seen lots of them in many different states.

                      The only nicer malls than Jockey Plaza in Lima, Peru I have ever seen were in Abu Dhabi and Dubai when I was there back in 1991.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
                      Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                      Go live in a $2k apartment in Nashville and then go live in a $200 one in Vietnam and come back and tell me about how awesome the Third World is. You're not getting First World living in Southeast Asia at these low prices.
                      You see this is why you really dont know what you are talking about I rented here for 7 years in VERY NICE 3 bedroom 2 bathroom bungalow in a gated community for just $250 a month and that would of cost at least $1500-$2000 in the USA etc I now live in what would cost a Million dollars in most western countries and I certainly do not live a third world existence.

                      For someone starting out the point is a single person can live on $1000 a month extremely well and have a GREAT EXPERIENCE see the world and when compared to doing the same in the west then you will barely be able to eat on that its like comparing apples to oranges.

                      Not only that but you can build your business much quicker since you wont be paying all the extra costs associated with being in a more expensive country so you can save much much easier.

                      It is obviously something that does not suit you so best stay stateside but anyone that has an iota of adventure in them I could not recommend it more.

                      Certainly not for everyone as I have stated before but i know many people who are living a first world existence in a third world country and loving every minute of it.

                      Gaz Cooper
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                    • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
                      Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                      Go live in a $2k apartment in Nashville and then go live in a $200 one in Vietnam and come back and tell me about how awesome the Third World is. You're not getting First World living in Southeast Asia at these low prices.
                      Both are "third world" if you ask me. Why would I live there?

                      Your first world / third world distinction is as outdated as your understanding of the world.

                      Silly man.
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                • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
                  Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                  The OP is incredibly over-simplified.

                  I live in the US and have lived in Third World countries.

                  There is a reason it costs more to live in the US.

                  We have the best health care. We have RELIABLE telecomunications/utilities/internet, etc. We have good infrastructure. And so on.

                  If you want to live for $800 a month, you will be living a Third World existence - not a First World one in the Third World. I could live for that much in a small town in Mississipi and it would give me a similar standard of living as that in some tiny crappy "apartment" in Thailand or Vietnam.

                  And don't get me started on political stability and civil rights.

                  The Third World is dirty, unstable in every sense of the word, subpar from a health perspective, and so on. Fine, if all you care about is banging a hooker every night cheaply and living in a crappy apartment getting crappy health care and no civil rights, go ahead. But if you want to live a secure, stable life close to family, forget about it.
                  Yeah, you are right. The Third world is horrible and dirty. I used to live at three blocks of this place, terrible...





                  Anyway... there are some things were you are right. An interesting question to ask is why most of the instabilities happen between the tropics.

                  But that is not a discussion for this forum.
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                • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
                  Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                  The OP is incredibly over-simplified.

                  I live in the US and have lived in Third World countries.

                  There is a reason it costs more to live in the US.

                  We have the best health care. We have RELIABLE telecomunications/utilities/internet, etc. We have good infrastructure. And so on.

                  If you want to live for $800 a month, you will be living a Third World existence - not a First World one in the Third World. I could live for that much in a small town in Mississipi and it would give me a similar standard of living as that in some tiny crappy "apartment" in Thailand or Vietnam.

                  And don't get me started on political stability and civil rights.

                  The Third World is dirty, unstable in every sense of the word, subpar from a health perspective, and so on. Fine, if all you care about is banging a hooker every night cheaply and living in a crappy apartment getting crappy health care and no civil rights, go ahead. But if you want to live a secure, stable life close to family, forget about it.
                  YEP best you stay in the USA
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                  • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
                    Originally Posted by Gaz Cooper View Post

                    YEP best you stay in the USA
                    In Nashville.

                    Last place in TN I would want to live.

                    A small town near the Smoky Mountains, maybe. But Nashville, heck no...

                    It was just listed as one of the most crime ridden cities in the USA, in the top 10 if I remember correctly.
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                • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
                  Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                  We have the best health care. We have RELIABLE telecomunications/utilities/internet, etc. We have good infrastructure. And so on.
                  In Cancun, I could get 20Mb fiber optic Internet for under $100/mo. I could call the states for free on my house phone. I NEVER lost power. WTF are you talking about?

                  As for health care, you obviously don't have a clue about the state of health care in the USA. US doctors kill more people with their mistakes each year than guns and auto accidents combined.

                  Our infant mortality rate is 50th in the world below a lot of countries you'd call "third world":

                  List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  Our life expectancy is 40th, again below countries you say have "crappy health care" like Cuba, Chile, Hong Kong.

                  List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                  cheaply and living in a crappy apartment getting crappy health care and no civil rights, go ahead. But if you want to live a secure, stable life close to family, forget about it.
                  A few shots of the "crappy apartment" building I lived in, in Cancun. (not my actual apt):

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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
                    Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                    WTF are you talking about?
                    I do see now what you were talking about, the
                    massive amounts of misinformation.
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                  • Profile picture of the author wesd22
                    Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                    In Cancun, I could get 20Mb fiber optic Internet for under $100/mo. I could call the states for free on my house phone. I NEVER lost power. WTF are you talking about?

                    As for health care, you obviously don't have a clue about the state of health care in the USA. US doctors kill more people with their mistakes each year than guns and auto accidents combined.

                    Our infant mortality rate is 50th in the world below a lot of countries you'd call "third world":

                    List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                    Our life expectancy is 40th, again below countries you say have "crappy health care" like Cuba, Chile, Hong Kong.

                    List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



                    A few shots of the "crappy apartment" building I lived in, in Cancun. (not my actual apt):

                    OP said live on $800 a month. You are delusional if you think you're living anywhere like that for a total cost with living expenses of $800.

                    Like seriously DELUSIONAL. $800 in the third world will get you third world living.
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                • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
                  Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                  The OP is incredibly over-simplified.

                  I live in the US and have lived in Third World countries.

                  There is a reason it costs more to live in the US.

                  We have the best health care. We have RELIABLE telecomunications/utilities/internet, etc. We have good infrastructure. And so on.

                  If you want to live for $800 a month, you will be living a Third World existence - not a First World one in the Third World. I could live for that much in a small town in Mississipi and it would give me a similar standard of living as that in some tiny crappy "apartment" in Thailand or Vietnam.

                  And don't get me started on political stability and civil rights.

                  The Third World is dirty, unstable in every sense of the word, subpar from a health perspective, and so on. Fine, if all you care about is banging a hooker every night cheaply and living in a crappy apartment getting crappy health care and no civil rights, go ahead. But if you want to live a secure, stable life close to family, forget about it.
                  I don't think you have ever lived in a quotes' Third World Country' and if you have it was probably over thirty years ago?

                  Agreed $800 would be pushing it a bit, and I'm not sure what you paid in your day but you wouldn't be banging a hooker every night on that money.

                  For me I'm living in a gated complex with 24 hr security and a nice swimming pool. I'm happily married with a wife and two kids and have 24hr electricity, water and Internet access! damn this Third World Existence!
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                • Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                  There is a reason it costs more to live in the US.

                  If you want to live for $800 a month, you will be living a Third World existence - not a First World one in the Third World.

                  The Third World is dirty, unstable in every sense of the word, subpar from a health perspective, and so on.
                  This person doesn't know WTF he's talking about, but he's right about one thing: living at first-class standards in a developing world costs more than $800/month.

                  At $800/month, you won't be enjoying any lux lifestyle in any 3rd world country.

                  HOWEVER, you can live a lux lifestyle in Thailand for a third of what you'd need in the US: $3,000/month (Thailand) vs. $10,000/month (US or Europe).
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                • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
                  Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

                  We have the best health care.
                  No. We are at 37th in the world. (World Health Organization) And way behind even in other critical studies of WHO.

                  The 36 Best Healthcare Systems In The World - Business Insider

                  In the developed world, the US ranks dead last in health care system. (CommonWealth Fund)

                  And when good amount of critical studies were released after that, NONE suggest that the US is even remotely close to "best health care" system.

                  The United States leads the industrialized world in deaths preventable with timely care.

                  There are 35 other countries in which a pregnant woman and her baby have a better chance of surviving the pregnancy.

                  There are 15 other nations providing every citizen with lifesaving treatments denied to many Americans.

                  Americans with emphysema are 25 percent more likely to need hospitalization than people in France (the country with the best record). Asthmatics suffer worse: American asthmatics are eight times more likely to need urgent care than those in France.

                  The number of hospital beds in the U.S. was 2.6 per 1,000 population in 2009, lower than the OECD average of 3.4 beds. There are fewer physicians per person than in most other OECD countries. In 2010, for instance, the U.S. had 2.4 practicing physicians per 1,000 people -- well below below the OECD average of 3.1. But 25 other countries have more doctors per capita, hospital beds per capita and doctor visits. And these countries spend less than we do. In fact, we have the most expensive health care in the world.

                  And before you think we have the most expensive health care means we have the best, let me remind you that that cost came from the pockets of many suffering families that are forced into debt and bankruptcies even when they had insurance when their medical crisis began.

                  We have the second-highest teen birth rate in the OECD, we're eighth from last on overall life expectancy at birth, and we're tied with Slovenia for third-worst place in terms of doctor density.

                  Fourth-to-last place in terms of health insurance coverage rates behind the Slovak Republic, Estonia, and Poland.

                  We rank seventh when it comes to prioritizing preventive care; countries that spend more on preventive services include Canada, New Zealand, Slovenia, and Hungary. Our hospital admission rates for heart attack patients alone are astronomical; compared to other Western developed countries, Americans can expect to go back to the hospital after a myocardial infarction a whopping 68 percent more than their foreign-born peers.

                  A coronary bypasses costs between nearly 50 percent more than in Canada, Australia and France, and are double the price in Germany.

                  Hip and knee replacements are generally cheaper in other countries than the U.S.

                  PTCAs (coronary angioplasty) are much more expensive in the United States than elsewhere.

                  American diabetics suffer twice as many foot amputations as diabetics in Europe because they cannot afford care to prevent foot infections from turning deadly.

                  One third of US children are overweight.

                  Fourth worst rate for infant mortality in the OECD.

                  Third-to-last in terms of mortality for children under 20.

                  12th from the bottom when it comes to child suicide.

                  Behind Japan and other developing countries in increase of life expectancy.

                  Maybe that's what you mean by "we have the best health care"?


                  And we're just on your first claim. (health care)
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  • Profile picture of the author mikeac
    Im planning to visit Thailand hopefully by the end of this year. Phuket is my destination of choice because it looks very peaceful and relaxing.
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  • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
    Wow, Sandra, what a gorgeous place in the pic.

    Where is that ? Kind of reminds me of Guadalajara a little bit....
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    We have the best health care. We have RELIABLE telecomunications/utilities/internet, etc. We have good infrastructure. And so on.

    If you want to live for $800 a month, you will be living a Third World existence - not a First World one in the Third World. I could live for that much in a small town in Mississipi and it would give me a similar standard of living as that in some tiny crappy "apartment" in Thailand or Vietnam.

    And don't get me started on political stability and civil rights.

    The Third World is dirty, unstable in every sense of the word, subpar from a health perspective, and so on. Fine, if all you care about is banging a hooker every night cheaply and living in a crappy apartment getting crappy health care and no civil rights, go ahead. But if you want to live a secure, stable life close to family, forget about it.
    Some people are just not cut out to live anywhere different from 'home'. They can't handle different cultures and places. I guess you are one of these people. Stay at home where everything is safe, sterile, boring and the 'best'.

    The point in living in a third world country when you have a little bit of money is that you can live a life of relative luxury (though not for $800) that you couldn't live back home without being seriously well off. When I'm in somewhere like Bangkok I'm living in a luxury apartment with fitness centre, swimming pool, can eat out every night, party every night if I want to...for me to do that back at 'home' (the UK) would cost a fortune.

    The third world isn't all dirty, unstable and subpar. As for banging hookers every night...speak for yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author sunray
    Actually, the term "third world" is obsolete, some twenty years already. We are well past it. Let us recall why some parts of the world were called "third". The first two were NATO states and other Western allies and Soviet Union and its allies, both preparing for a nuclear holocaust. The third world applied to the countries who were too poor to take part in such grandiose ventures, too busy to survive on everyday basis.

    Well, it all came to an end in early nineties when the Soviet Union collapsed and Cold War ended. If we now look backwards, we can see that right about at the same time began another, economic war. Of course, some early birds were already having their factories in China before that, it all started in the eighties, but nothing in grand scale. Most of it started to happen in the nineties. Partly because China began subsidizing its import by keeping the local currency low. And partly because communist China did not appear to pose a threat any more. Well.. so it seemed. Now that it has probably become the most industrialized country in the world, we know better.

    Europe will be on its knees in a year or two at most. The last productions are going. Just these days Goodyear announced it is going to shut down a tire factory in Northern France. The reason - failed negotiations with trade unions to cut wages. With these salaries a factory simply cannot compete with Asian production, it is running at a loss. And no shareholder can tolerate that.

    As far as I know it's the same in America too. Of course, the previous first world countries still continue to receive their profit share, as long as the companies still belong to Americans or Europeans, but it's just not enough. The profit margin may be 5-6%, maybe 10 to 12% if patents added, but most of the money paid for a product is for wages at various levels. And these are not paid in these countries any more. No wages, no sales, no taxes.

    And you know, it all affects IM too... Soon to be successful in it you have to speak and write Mandarin.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by sunray View Post

      Actually, the term "third world" is obsolete, some twenty years already. We are well past it. Let us recall why some parts of the world were called "third". The first two were NATO states and other Western allies and Soviet Union and its allies, both preparing for a nuclear holocaust. The third world applied to the countries who were too poor to take part in such grandiose ventures, too busy to survive on everyday basis.

      Well, it all came to an end in early nineties when the Soviet Union collapsed and Cold War ended. If we now look backwards, we can see that right about at the same time began another, economic war. Of course, some early birds were already having their factories in China before that, it all started in the eighties, but nothing in grand scale. Most of it started to happen in the nineties. Partly because China began subsidizing its import by keeping the local currency low. And partly because communist China did not appear to pose a threat any more. Well.. so it seemed. Now that it has probably become the most industrialized country in the world, we know better.

      Europe will be on its knees in a year or two at most. The last productions are going. Just these days Goodyear announced it is going to shut down a tire factory in Northern France. The reason - failed negotiations with trade unions to cut wages. With these salaries a factory simply cannot compete with Asian production, it is running at a loss. And no shareholder can tolerate that.

      As far as I know it's the same in America too. Of course, the previous first world countries still continue to receive their profit share, as long as the companies still belong to Americans or Europeans, but it's just not enough. The profit margin may be 5-6%, maybe 10 to 12% if patents added, but most of the money paid for a product is for wages at various levels. And these are not paid in these countries any more. No wages, no sales, no taxes.

      And you know, it all affects IM too... Soon to be successful in it you have to speak and write Mandarin.

      Yeah, almost every country in the world right now
      has a lot of heavy challenges, but also a lot of
      great opportunities.

      I would never bet my money against either Europe
      or the USA, not in the long term. That's a sure
      way to lose money.
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  • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
    To live dangerously means to live. If you don’t live dangerously, you don’t live.

    Living flowers only in danger. Living never flowers in security; it flowers only in insecurity. If you start getting secure, you become a stagnant pool. Then your energy is no more moving. Then you are afraid, because one never knows how to go into the unknown.

    And why take the risk? The known is more secure. Then you get obsessed with the familiar. You go on getting fed up with it, you are bored with it, you feel miserable in it, but still it seems familiar and comfortable. At least it is known. Unknown creates a trembling in you. The very idea of the unknown and you start feeling unsafe.


    There are only two types of people in the world. People who want to live comfortably — they are seeking death. They want a comfortable grave. And people who want to live — they choose to live dangerously, because life thrives only when there is risk. Have you ever gone climbing the mountains? The higher the climb, the fresher you feel, the younger you feel.


    The greater the danger of falling, the bigger the abyss by the side, the more alive you are… between life and death, when you are just hanging between life and death. Then there is no boredom, then there is no dust of the past, no desire for the future. Then the present moment is very sharp like a flame. It is enough. You live in the here and now.


    - OSHO
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  • Profile picture of the author rred
    Nice thread, thanks for sharing your experience with us on WF...
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesColin
    Banned
    I also live in Thailand off internet money. I live in what I can call luxury, simply because I couldn't afford similar things in Europe.
    Now I'm not ill, I don't care about local politics, I don't do drugs, etc.

    Of course the worse can happen, but it can also happen anywhere..

    I have only one life, I wanted to taste luxury and good weather, I have done so, now if all this ends, at least I'll have some nice memories.. Those who stay at home all their life, well fine, I don't critisize them, some they stay because they have no choice, and some because they enjoy their life at home and don't want to try another destination. FINE.

    But I also know I'm not the only one here living either from pension or from other income, it is a tourist town, and life is great until now, thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author BarberShop
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Have any of you considered what you'll do when your parents fall into ill health? Many move back home when this happens.

    I think liberalism has taught people to think only of the positives of emigrating and to ignore the negatives.

    Most people who emigrate do eventually come home and usually within a handful of years. Worth thinking about.
    Well that's different. Like you could also be asked to see your parole officer every month and not leave the state.
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Not sure where I stand on this I am only 22 and lived in the Dominican Republic for a year when I was 18 to do new things. Don’t get me wrong the experience was overall good but could I see myself living out their forever? No, there are a few things which got me if you take family out of the picture.

    - Everywhere I went people are trying to hustle you for something, if it is the people trying to clean your windows at every traffic light or the homeless person walking past you begging for money. (Yes I did live in Santo Domingo).

    - The service I got out there was horrible; when I mean service I am talking about things like power cuts, internet and so on… I was without power for a week that is after the back up generator had run out of juice. The electric company came out 6 times, each time saying they fixed it and nothing had got done. It was like the blind leading the blind, plus I am ignoring the fact that the Internet out there was insanely throttled.

    - This is just me being picky and since I am from the UK I don’t have to worry about it, drinking water out a tap! It’s so much simple drinking out a tap instead of putting a massive bottle of water on your shoulder , good workout I suppose ☺.

    - The roads, they are pretty much lawless, lets forget that I would just drive past any cop on the road and not stop souly for the fact that they would want a bribe to sod off. Cars don’t stop at junctions in the back streets, all they do is flash their lights (if they are clever) and fly past a turning not giving a care in the world if anyone is there.

    - Remember I am from the UK and we have the NHS here so if I ever did break a leg I would have to get a plane home (if I am allowed to fly, or pay for it and get it back by the NHS later) Just a bit of hassle really.

    There are many more reasons why I could point out why I wouldn’t want to move away from home and these are my opinions based on my experience. Don’t get me wrong I had a good time out there, the weather was great, beaches, place I stayed at was really nice and so on but for me, having all that didn’t mean anything when I had everything back home! Ultimately I missed home.
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    • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
      Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

      Yeah the Third World is fine to visit, but to live there instead of the First World?? No way. I've lived in two Third World countries and it's just too much of a hassle (brownouts, crappy internet service, terrible roads, bribes, insane pollution, etc.).

      I'll go there once a year and enjoy their resorts, but living there is a whole different story. Been there, done that.
      Even in the 3rd world there are first class cities. I've never experienced power cuts, the internet is often better than at home, roads are busy but who cares, I've never had to bribe anyone (well I had to give a cop in Peru when doing a road trip round the country a pack of cookies).

      Pick somewhere better to live.

      Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

      Nope, you would not be entitled to NHS treatment if you were no longer a UK resident.

      You need only be out of the country for 3 months and they start giving you trouble and demanding money.
      That's nonsense. You don't lose your UK citizenship, rights or access to medical treatment by leaving the country for 3 months nor do you have to pay money. Doesn't matter if you live abroad for the rest of your life if you are born in the UK or have a UK passport you are always going to be a British citizen.
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  • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Have any of you considered what you'll do when your parents fall into ill health? Many move back home when this happens.

    I think liberalism has taught people to think only of the positives of emigrating and to ignore the negatives.

    Most people who emigrate do eventually come home and usually within a handful of years. Worth thinking about.
    I'm reminded of an old folk tale from the Caucasus...

    A Georgian man got up every morning and climbed atop his horse to begin his day of work in the high Georgian mountains. At night he would come home to eat with his family and drink Georgian red wine.

    Some nights, when he and his wife had a little too much wine, they would make love. After all, they'd been married for a long time and it could take a little convincing...

    The next day he would awake, splash some cold water on his face and climb again atop his horse to begin his day of work in the high Georgian mountains.

    One day he awoke and splashed cold water on his face as he had done thousands of times before. He went to climb atop his horse but his body was old now and frail. He couldn't muster the strength to do this simple thing he had been doing his entire life.

    Unable to climb atop his horse, he walked to the little barn he built many years before. He took the old shotgun from the wall. He admired this finely crafted piece of machinery for a few minutes. Then he put it in his mouth and blew his brains out.

    ***

    The dying and almost-dead have no claim on the living. If you want to take care of your parents, certainly it's your choice and your business.

    But I for one would never ask my son or daughter to drop their lives and throw away their youth to come change my diaper. I'd sooner go the way of the Georgian man.

    There are a million and one unearned, unasked for duties, obligations, responsibilities that keep people from living their lives because they've been hammered since before they could speak that it's their duty.

    Why are you always the outside looking in, and whosoever wants to stake a claim on your freedom, your mind, your soul, your life can do so at anytime, and in the name of duty, responsibility, obligation, family, culture, society, or any other beautiful word with an ugly interior?

    Life is here to be lived in adventure, beauty, love, light, freedom. Not to be a Pavlov dog at the beck and call of anybody who invokes these beautiful sounding words that all mean the same thing: slavery.
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    • Profile picture of the author gonzotrucker
      Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

      I'm reminded of an old folk tale from the Caucasus...

      A Georgian man got up every morning and climbed atop his horse to begin his day of work in the high Georgian mountains. At night he would come home to eat with his family and drink Georgian red wine.

      Some nights, when he and his wife had a little too much wine, they would make love. After all, they'd been married for a long time and it could take a little convincing...

      The next day he would awake, splash some cold water on his face and climb again atop his horse to begin his day of work in the high Georgian mountains.

      One day he awoke and splashed cold water on his face as he had done thousands of times before. He went to climb atop his horse but his body was old now and frail. He couldn't muster the strength to do this simple thing he had been doing his entire life.

      Unable to climb atop his horse, he walked to the little barn he built many years before. He took the old shotgun from the wall. He admired this finely crafted piece of machinery for a few minutes. Then he put it in his mouth and blew his brains out.

      ***

      The dying and almost-dead have no claim on the living. If you want to take care of your parents, certainly it's your choice and your business.

      But I for one would never ask my son or daughter to drop their lives and throw away their youth to come change my diaper. I'd sooner go the way of the Georgian man.

      There are a million and one unearned, unasked for duties, obligations, responsibilities that keep people from living their lives because they've been hammered since before they could speak that it's their duty.

      Why are you always the outside looking in, and whosoever wants to stake a claim on your freedom, your mind, your soul, your life can do so at anytime, and in the name of duty, responsibility, obligation, family, culture, society, or any other beautiful word with an ugly interior?

      Life is here to be lived in adventure, beauty, love, light, freedom. Not to be a Pavlov dog at the beck and call of anybody who invokes these beautiful sounding words that all mean the same thing: slavery.

      I have this same argument with my brother. I agree with you 100% life is for living you only have one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Have any of you considered what you'll do when your parents fall into ill health? Many move back home when this happens.

    I think liberalism has taught people to think only of the positives of emigrating and to ignore the negatives.

    Most people who emigrate do eventually come home and usually within a handful of years. Worth thinking about.
    Not me 27 years and counting as for the parents we discussed it many years ago and agreed that I will never return for funerals is someone gets sick i have the luxury to be able to jump on a plane at a moments notice and go see them but that dont mean i will be staying I will be back as soon as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken_Stone
    Hey Vic,

    Greetings from Pattaya. I'm from the USA & have lived in Thailand off & on since 2001.

    NEVER EVER had an issue here (aside from the occasional Kamikaze policeman that walks out in the road in front of me)... Usually it's some dreamed up charge such as driving in the fast lane when I wasn't passing anybody & 200 baht (about $6 USD) takes care of it & I'm on my way in about 2 minutes flat.

    I used to get angry about that, but T.I.T. This Is Thailand. I just look at it as a tollway fee.

    One thing I DO have is some Thai friends.....Many of them, but my main guy runs a business and is well connected.

    If I ever DID run into any problems, he'd help me out. My Thai language skills are marginal. It's amazing how far a 100 word vocabulary & a wee bit of sign language will go though.

    Health care is FANTASTIC here.

    I had a tooth-ache once. Nothing wrong with it except it had gotten sensitive for some reason. I went to Bangkok-Pattaya hospital, filled out a half page form, and was in the dentist chair within 20 minutes. Cost me about $50 bucks. The dentist just drilled the top a bit & put some filling material on it. I didn't even need a shot.

    I tried to book a dentist appointment in Florida once & they put me on a 6 week waiting list.

    I've been married 11 years, have a 7 year old daughter & almost froze to death recently when I visited Surin. Forsooth!!! It got down to 60 degrees F up there overnight!

    Got down to 80F here last night & I had to use an extra blanket ;=)

    I'm a Florida Boy though, so my blood is naturally thin.
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    vtotheyouknow deal, only if you going to keep me company lol
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Well, I love here in Australia. Yeah the cost of living is higher and so are the taxes.

    But gee..

    My family is here, the food is good, the air and water are clean and I don't have to worry about waking up in a hotel bathroom with my kidneys removed.

    Oh and I can still travel the world as I have done.

    Point is that it's all relative to what you want in life.

    Sal
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