If Sex Sells, How About We Try in On the Kindle...

11 years ago

Do you know how many people have probably already tried to replicate the success of 50 shades? I would say thousands and thousands of people. Your plan sounds a lot simpler than it actually will be. But as with most things the only way to know is to do it. You have nothing to lose, right? No one here has a crystal ball unfortunately.

It better be targeted to middle aged women though. Men can't be bothered reading that stuff when there is so much free porn available.

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Patrick Brown

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

Do you know how many people have probably already tried to replicate the success of 50 shades? I would say thousands and thousands of people. Your plan sounds a lot simpler than it actually will be. But as with most things the only way to know is to do it. You have nothing to lose, right? No one here has a crystal ball unfortunately.

It better be targeted to middle aged women though. Men can't be bothered reading that stuff when there is so much free porn available.

Thats true, but some people also really LOVE written works. Told in a nice story fashion one can build a really good audience and make them buy and buy and buy....

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Sandra Martinez 11 years ago

The niche you are interested is erotica, here is your competition:

Amazon Best Sellers: best Erotica

I haven´t played in this niche - funny someone actually used my name as pen name - but I did research it and it is interesting. As Tink said (get her product if you want to target women and do it right), you need to know how to talk to your market.

You can start by visiting Elvis´ blog: Epic Passive Income

He writes erotica and the marketing journey is there, even revenue.
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Entrecon

11 years ago

There a lot of "Romance" stories on the Kindle. You have to research how to get one that is free all of the time. I just started playing with Kindle books and I only see the ability to have it free for 5 days.

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Backlinks Explorer

11 years ago

I've heard of people making good money with erotic kindle books.

But as others have said it's a very crowded market so you'd have to work hard to build an audience, and a lot of the sites where you can promote kindle books don't allow adult titles.

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TinkBD 11 years ago

You also have to understand the market/readers.... especially if you are male.

Men and women have different erogenous zones.

Women readers are the far bigger market.

Do your homework and this can work well... *assume* you know it, and likely you'll fail.

As for your overall plan (and assuming that you are meeting your readers expectations), it can work well. ;-)
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StilettoWriter

11 years ago

Sex definitely sells on Amazon. There's also a new fiverr type site just for Erotica/Romance. Still in infancy - but you might want to check it out. www.eroticagigs.com

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Lauryn

11 years ago

While I haven't dabbled in erotica, I have written sexual content for Kindle. If you know how to write a great book, and can put together a solid marketing plan, then you will experience some success in this area.

Some books are literally 4 or 5 minute reads, but depending on the audience for the book, some people experience success.

Take a look at Guy Kawasaki's APE about making a great book period on Kindle.

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angela99

11 years ago

In erotica, it's not about the sex, it's about the people.

If you look at the top sellers in erotica, the authors who write a dozen books and more, and whose sales increase steadily, they write good books. Erotica yes, but they have characters that readers can care about.

This is important, because as Tink says: "Women readers are the far bigger market."

Women care about people and story.

Your primary erogenous zone is your brain, so I'd be very careful of thinking "sex sells", and focusing just on the sex.

Smashwords got hit badly by PayPal objecting to nastiness in erotica. They cleaned house, and got rid of the truly nasty p0rn.

Think: story, characters, and people... then worry about the sex scenes.

It amazes me the number of writers who contact me and tell me that their book contains 16 characters, with a sex scene for each one... Then sex scenes with them together. There's no character development or story in sight. So who cares about the sex? No one.

Again, focus on the people... :-)

Cheers

Angela

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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

Tink, Angela, you are so right.

When '50 Shades' hit the mainstream, I had to try my hand at the genre. After ~6,000 words, I went back and read it again from the beginning. Sad to say, it sounded more like those pulp paperbacks they used to sell to businessmen at airports. Not what I wanted to put out.

So I shelved the project until I can wrap a real story around it.

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Fun to Write

11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Tink, Angela, you are so right.

When '50 Shades' hit the mainstream, I had to try my hand at the genre. After ~6,000 words, I went back and read it again from the beginning. Sad to say, it sounded more like those pulp paperbacks they used to sell to businessmen at airports. Not what I wanted to put out.

So I shelved the project until I can wrap a real story around it.

Now, John

Maybe if you made it about a fisherman that met up with a sexy bait seller you may be able to get into it more.

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Greg guitar 11 years ago

Originally Posted by angela99

Smashwords got hit badly by PayPal objecting to nastiness in erotica. They cleaned house, and got rid of the truly nasty p0rn.

Nice to know that a payment processing company has elected themselves everyone's mommy and daddy, to filter out all things they deem truly nasty. Otherwise who knows what terrible words people might blow their wads on (their wad of savings I mean; get your minds out of the gutter, people).

Good old Paypal; if not for them, some readers might think bad thoughts, and some writers might be rewarded for suggesting the bad thoughts.
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DTGeorge

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Copy Surgeon

Hello Warriors,

They say sex sells. I'm looking at cashing in on that 'myth'.

I've never published on Kindle, but I hear its awesome!

The idea is to write some really catchy 5000 word eBook. It will be very sexual and a continuing story. Very SEXUAL and GRAPHIC.

The first part of the eBook is FREE. But it will HOOK someone and the pricing on the rest will be $2.99. The series/story will have 7 parts.

Do you think is a good idea? Has anyone tried this?

Hit me up...

"Sex" doesn't sell.

Good marketing does.

Put up a sex book with no/little marketing and it will flop. Just like literally anything else.

Have a great marketing campaign, and it won't matter if you're selling sex or coffee tables.

That being said, your idea is a good one, but you need to get it out there to ensure that you get some eyeballs on the story.

Selling stories at $2.99 a pop only works if you have literally hundreds (or a few thousand) of readers buying - which means that your audience who will be exposed to your book will need to number in the tens of thousands, which is a rather decent sized market.

Personally, if I had that many people willing to buy a product from me, I wouldn't be charging $2.99 a pop (less of course after Amazon takes its cut)

Just my 2c

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Elvis Michael 11 years ago

Originally Posted by DTGeorge

"Sex" doesn't sell.

Good marketing does.

Put up a sex book with no/little marketing and it will flop. Just like literally anything else.

It really depends on the theme/topic or whatever is hot right now, whether it's mainstream or not. For example, if there's a relatively kinky topic of interest and the demand for it isn't very obvious to every publisher, then marketing your story isn't necessarily a must.

EDIT to add:
And this isn't a long shot, either; it's actually common to find a winning erotica subject, write it and move on without any marketing efforts. Also note that "selling" could mean anything depending on the income you're personally comfortable with. If a subject only makes $10 per month without marketing, technically that still counts. Publish/outsource ten stories, and there you have $100 per month, indefinitely.
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cashcow

11 years ago

Sex? On the Kindle? Seems like that would be uncomfortable.

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TinkBD

11 years ago

Hmmmmmm... Changes yet again.

My books aren't under the ADULT filter yet... but I woke up and smelled the coffee.

The Fiction books I'm writing now aren't Romantic Erotica

Do I still know folks raking it in with Erotica? Yes, I do, but be aware things can turn on a dime!

Survival Tips for the Pornocalypse (Erotica Writers Get Armed and Ready!)

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Lauryn

11 years ago

The majority of mine are.... Hmm.

I see there's going to be a lot that needs to happen to get money via this method from now on...

Originally Posted by TinkBD

Hmmmmmm... Changes yet again.

My books aren't under the ADULT filter yet... but I woke up and smelled the coffee.

The Fiction books I'm writing now aren't Romantic Erotica

Do I still know folks raking it in with Erotica? Yes, I do, but be aware things can turn on a dime!

Survival Tips for the Pornocalypse (Erotica Writers Get Armed and Ready!)

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TinkBD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Lauryn

The majority of mine are.... Hmm.

I see there's going to be a lot that needs to happen to get money via this method from now on...

Lauryn - In self-pubbing, everything and anything can turn on a dime... as my crit partner jokes about stuff... "Oh, that *fill-in-the-blank* is SOOO three weeks ago*

However, if you (1) write your best, (2) understand the genre you are writing AND (3) UNDERSTAND WHAT THE READERS ARE EXPECTING... AND (4) meet their expectations/provide it... other genres offer far more opportunity for success...

Here in WF, we tend to play follow the leader because we think it is easier or we're following the latest shiny object or because we think the best way to success is to copy someone here rather than looking to the outside world...

Hence the rush to the Erotica Cliff... Now the edge may be crumbling.

The good news? There are unlimited paths in genre fiction if you do your homework and provide what the readers want.

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Lauryn

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TinkBD

Lauryn - In self-pubbing, everything and anything can turn on a dime... as my crit partner jokes about stuff... "Oh, that *fill-in-the-blank* is SOOO three weeks ago*

However, if you (1) write your best, (2) understand the genre you are writing AND (3) UNDERSTAND WHAT THE READERS ARE EXPECTING... AND (4) meet their expectations/provide it... other genres offer far more opportunity for success...

Here in WF, we tend to play follow the leader because we think it is easier or we're following the latest shiny object or because we think the best way to success is to copy someone here rather than looking to the outside world...

Hence the rush to the Erotica Cliff... Now the edge may be crumbling.

The good news? There are unlimited paths in genre fiction if you do your homework and provide what the readers want.

Oh I'm aware of that. I wrote my first - and once most profitable - book over 2 years ago in March 2011. It was getting well over 700 a month on its own - and even close to 1000 without marketing!!!! - when the filter hit.

I was giving the audience what they wanted.

Damn you Amazon.

And it wasn't erotica. It was sexual health/technique. I'm not an erotica lover. I'll take the hard visuals LOL!

Nevertheless, you are right. I have other things to dip into and make products for, so I'll look into that.

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WriterWahm

11 years ago

Speaking from a reader's perspective...if you're going to write several books, make them different stories. Breaking one single story into different parts is just horrible. You might con me into buying part 2, but that's as far as it goes. You can feature the same characters in different books, but each book should be complete with a satisfactory ending.

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TinkBD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by WriterWahm

Speaking from a reader's perspective...if you're going to write several books, make them different stories. Breaking one single story into different parts is just horrible. You might con me into buying part 2, but that's as far as it goes. You can feature the same characters in different books, but each book should be complete with a satisfactory ending.

Hi Sharon!

While I personally agree... this seems to vary from genre to genre... hence the need for fairly deep research ;-)

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seobro

11 years ago

I would exercise some care. Like you do not want them to ban you. Right now, short book that are less than 4,500 words are banned on amazon. Also, please remember that you are selling to a global market and laws in other countries can be quite different than our own. Think of this as a word to the wise. For example, look at the case in anime. There are some titles that are legal in japan. However, they are not legal in america.

Like we do want to make money. That said, there are many laws people need to become more aware on.

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cashcow 11 years ago

Originally Posted by seobro

IRight now, short book that are less than 4,500 words are banned on amazon.

Where did you hear that?
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seobro

11 years ago

Hpost my fine ones. Last I heard was 2,500 words. I think that they want at least 10,000 words for a good user experience. Please remember the novel minimum....

Well, that would be approx 70,000 words.

Most print publishers prefer a minimum word count of around 70,000 words for a first novel, and some even hesitate for any work shorter than 80,000.

Fiction Factor - How Long Should Your Story Be?

Here is the article on amazon. They are cracking the whip on us - again.

Amazon Cracks Down On Kindle Books Under 2,500 Words - GalleyCat

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Elvis Michael

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seobro

Hpost my fine ones. Last I heard was 2,500 words. I think that they want at least 10,000 words for a good user experience. Please remember the novel minimum....

Well, that would be approx 70,000 words.

Fiction Factor - How Long Should Your Story Be?

Here is the article on amazon. They are cracking the whip on us - again.

Amazon Cracks Down On Kindle Books Under 2,500 Words - GalleyCat

Sigh. So it seems this is causing quite a bit of panic and it's not even official. Not yet.

Seobro, it's good to proceed with caution and everything, but until Amazon actually release an official statement, consider it nothing but a rumor. I always noticed that their helpdesk reps (just like any other) tend to be inconsistent and subjective, and Person A may sometimes say something that Person B, C and D are completely unaware of.

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TinkBD

11 years ago

[QUOTE=seobro;8045503]

Well, that would be approx 70,000 words./QUOTE]

Actually, the length of a novel varies according to genre... dramatically.

In addition, the plethora of traditionally pubbed fiction going to 100k and above was driven by the traditional publishers' needs to justify the prices of hardbacks.

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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

60-70,000 words is about the length of your average Harlequin Romance paperback. The last Tom Clancy I read would work out to a little over 300,000 words.

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TinkBD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

60-70,000 words is about the length of your average Harlequin Romance paperback. The last Tom Clancy I read would work out to a little over 300,000 words.

Actually, a Harlequin is less than that. The average Harlequin is a Category Romance

Here are the guidelines I currently use for Romance

Short: 12-18,000 words
Novella: 19-30,000 words
Category: 31-60,000 words
Novel: 61-90,000 words

Again, check the genre you are writing ;-)

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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TinkBD

Actually, a Harlequin is less than that. The average Harlequin is a Category Romance

Here are the guidelines I currently use for Romance

Short: 12-18,000 words
Novella: 19-30,000 words
Category: 31-60,000 words
Novel: 61-90,000 words

Again, check the genre you are writing ;-)

I won't dispute that. I got my figure by grabbing a dozen out of the big box my wife keeps around and doing page counts and word counts on sample pages. So there's room for error, and we overlap.

I have a bunch of series westerns that clock in at around the 60k mark as well...

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TinkBD 11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

So there's room for error, and we overlap.

I totally agree...

The point I was making -- expected/accepted word count will vary from genre to genre... if you want to nail a genre... you need to do your homework ;-)
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GobBluthJD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seobro

Hpost my fine ones. Last I heard was 2,500 words. I think that they want at least 10,000 words for a good user experience. Please remember the novel minimum....

Well, that would be approx 70,000 words.

Fiction Factor - How Long Should Your Story Be?

Here is the article on amazon. They are cracking the whip on us - again.

Amazon Cracks Down On Kindle Books Under 2,500 Words - GalleyCat

This was false. Amazon is not removing books under 2,500, purely for word count. Never was, likely never will.

Read the latest: http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...e#.UYgFOEpGiVE

Someone blindly posted that Amazon was removing books under 2,500, nobody bothered to actually check with Amazon, and it took off on the blogs. But it's not true.

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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

Originally Posted by GobBluthJD

This was false. Amazon is not removing books under 2,500, purely for word count. Never was, likely never will.

Read the latest: http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...e#.UYgFOEpGiVE

Someone blindly posted that Amazon was removing books under 2,500, nobody bothered to actually check with Amazon, and it took off on the blogs. But it's not true.

Warning: Sidetrack ahead...

From the Digital Reader article linked above, regarding Amazon's announcement of the public domain crackdown:

Some types of content, such as public domain content, may be free to use by anyone, or may be licensed for use by more than one party. We will not accept content that is freely available on the web unless you are the copyright owner of that content. For example, if you received your book content from a source that allows you and others to re-distribute it, and the content is freely available on the web, we will not accept it for sale on the Kindle store. We do accept public domain content, however we may choose to not sell a public domain book if its content is undifferentiated or barely differentiated from one or more other books.

Does this mean that compiling your own original blog content into a book is acceptable? Has anyone tried this?

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GobBluthJD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Does this mean that compiling your own original blog content into a book is acceptable? Has anyone tried this?

Yes, it's acceptable. You may have to explain to Amazon that they are actually YOUR own, original blog posts (so keep a digital record of them), but it's allowable.

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MP80

11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Does this mean that compiling your own original blog content into a book is acceptable? Has anyone tried this?

Originally Posted by GobBluthJD

Yes, it's acceptable. You may have to explain to Amazon that they are actually YOUR own, original blog posts (so keep a digital record of them), but it's allowable.

Here's a bit more info:
Can You Publish Blogged Material As a Kindle Ebook?

The author of the blog is speaking from experience; here is her book online:
Table of Contents - How to Blog a Book

And here it is on Amazon:

How to Blog a Book: Write, Publish, and Promote...

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Tim3 11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Does this mean that compiling your own original blog content into a book is acceptable? Has anyone tried this?

Yes John, this is acceptable as said above. If going this route here are a couple of tips...
Be prepared to get flagged and to receive a duplicate content issue email from Amazon.

Before publishing on KDP, search Google for your blog content, you know a sentence here and there, make a note of the URL of any scraper sites, and save these in a file.

In your reply to Amazon, give them the URL of your blog(s) and the list of scraper sites (if any), telling Amazon you will be taking action DCMA action against them, unless you do it first.

Then all should be well

P.s. You might get several other emails from Amazon for the same thing, just reply with your original reply.
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webboost

11 years ago

It as crowded as adult sites

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eugenedm

11 years ago

You must know your audience. It doesn't matter what you sell. The question is if people want to buy your stuff.

I would just test it.

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Patrick Brown

Banned 11 years ago

I started this discussion but didnt realize it went this far. Glad to see SOOOO many contributors, needless to say I read through each one of the responses.

Good advice here guys! Thanks for your contributions.

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wlasikiewicz

11 years ago

I clicked on this thread just to take a peek and I too have read every post, that's for all your input..

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cashcow

11 years ago

As GobBluthJD says it is acceptable, however keep in mind that you would not be able to enter that book into KDP select.

Also, I know quite a few people who had their books removed because the information was "freely available on the web" Those books were all in select though. I assume otherwise, you would simply have to prove that it is your copyrighted information.

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thedanbrown

11 years ago

Ya I did something along those lines on Kindle, published 6 ebooks on dating and sexual jealousy and have been selling pretty decently so ya this is probably a good idea.

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Don Grace

11 years ago

competition = good. And since you probably know more about marketing than the average author you have an advantage.

And so what if you're a dude, look at Harold Robbins, one of the best selling authors of all time (And I'll attest, I don't like to read his books because they suck you in, and the next thing you know, no work gets done)...

Here's the format- Guy gets money, guy gets laid, guy loses money, guy goes loco, guy gets money again, guy gets laid again.

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TinkBD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MarketingMonk

There are lots of romance ebooks on amazon kindle. You have to be creative and market your ebook well in order to make good amount of sales.

Keep in mind, Romance is a different genre that of Women's Erotica or Romantic Erotica.

If you don't know that, do research BEFORE you start writing ;-)

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If Sex Sells, How About We Try in On the Kindle...

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