Serial adswaps? to build your list size(list=1000->1500->2000) or Does the list quality suffer?

27 replies
Is this a common method people who already have a list (say 1000 in size)
to use this to do an adswap (with somebody who already has a 1000 list)

then if they get 300, then 1000 + 300 = 1300

then they do 1300 x 1300 (a marketers list who has 1300)
then from this they gain another 500

(1300 + 500 = 1800
New list size = 1800

and then does an adswap with their 1800, with a marketer who has a 1800 list, and keeps doing this for weeks/months with many markers.

added: The above maths and numbers are just an example for simplicity.

Qu
then is this a common method that people use, to increase their list?

Qu
what are the advantages of this method? (besides you can grow your list big?)

Qu
what are the pitfalls to avoid? (fake solo ad marketers? - sending no clicks? )

Qu
what things should you be catious of doing in this method, and how can you best benefit from this method?

Qu
When the list gets to 10,000 in size (hopefully) - does there tend to be alot of 'junk' subscribers, due to this method? (as the list has been made from other peoples list, and you don't know their quality.) ?

Coby is on holiday I read in a thread but he knows this stuff lol, thanks guys
#> #15001500> #adswaps #build #erial #incriments #list
  • Profile picture of the author wisdomoto
    Yea basically people who do a lot of ad-swaps and click banking are in the solo ad selling game

    They need fresh subscribers every day to be able to sell clicks

    I guess one of the downsides is that if you are emailing your list a lot you also get a lot of un-subscribes. So for every swap or mail out that you do you will get some who un-subscribe

    Benefit is that it's basically free if you are swapping or click banking

    If you are trying to build a valuable list where you are building a relationship with your list then you probably want to do ad-swaps once in a while in addition to other methods like an opt-in on your blog etc.

    Your math here is a bit flawed and a bit optimistic. I'm not sure if I follow.
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  • Profile picture of the author twister85
    Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

    Qu
    then is this a common method that people use, to increase their list?
    Yes most of them, Keeping solo ads and PPC in mind.

    Qu
    what are the advantages of this method? (besides you can grow your list big?)
    1.This is free, You just need to contact the swap interested partner and schedule for a mail.
    2. Both lists are in the same niche, So targeted traffic at the go.
    3. Building list while making money at the same time if you both prefer a paid offer in a way of capturing mails. In this way you mail a paid offer to your list in his favor as well as capturing the mails and vice versa.

    Qu
    what are the pitfalls to avoid? (fake solo ad marketers? - sending no clicks? )
    The swapping partner must guarantee the no/ of clicks he has promised, maybe more than that. Must look at his sales reports and open rates before a joint venture. Because he might have built his list with free traffic with no quality and trying to get your quality subs in his list. Avoid swapping with those who ask for money.

    Qu
    what things should you be catious of doing in this method, and how can you best benefit from this method?
    Test both the lists before swapping if he agrees. do no swap with the same list again. The best thing about this is that you're getting target quality subscribers whithout paying anything.

    Qu
    When the list gets to 10,000 in size (hopefully) - does there tend to be alot of 'junk' subscribers, due to this method? (as the list has been made from other peoples list, and you don't know their quality.) ?
    and you don't know their quality
    This should be sorted out first before swapping.
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    • Profile picture of the author davidkings
      What if you are doing them for the first time, with your list of 1000, and want to swap with 3 / 4 list swappers with 1000 list size,

      but as you haven't done a swap before you have no feedback/ no reviews..

      compared with somebody who has many reviews (on safeswap)
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      • Profile picture of the author twister85
        Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

        What if you are doing them for the first time, with your list of 1000, and want to swap with 3 / 4 list swappers with 1000 list size,

        but as you haven't done a swap before you have no feedback/ no reviews..

        compared with somebody who has many reviews (on safeswap)
        Testing doesn't need reviews! he isn't selling anything. he is swapping for the first time not mailing for the first time right? so just ask him for his campaign reports with open rates, CTR and sales if have made any. that gives an Idea of the conversion and quality of the clicks.
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      • Profile picture of the author adgaro
        Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

        What if you are doing them for the first time, with your list of 1000, and want to swap with 3 / 4 list swappers with 1000 list size,

        but as you haven't done a swap before you have no feedback/ no reviews..

        compared with somebody who has many reviews (on safeswap)
        It really depends on your swap partner and on his swipe. You can present him (or them) to your list as your friends.
        I use Safe Swaps and found several excellent swap partners there. My unsubscribe rate is really low. If your partners provide good offers, your list will be happy.
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        • Profile picture of the author davidkings
          Originally Posted by Mary Stevens View Post

          Yeah adswaps can burn out your list. You could mail to the list and then resend to the unopens. Many people keep more than one list however.
          More than one list? you mean more than one subscriber list in internet marketing ?

          Originally Posted by adgaro View Post

          It really depends on your swap partner and on his swipe. You can present him (or them) to your list as your friends.
          I use Safe Swaps and found several excellent swap partners there. My unsubscribe rate is really low. If your partners provide good offers, your list will be happy.
          How can you find a good excellent swap partner, if you are doing it for the first time ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Stevens
    Yeah adswaps can burn out your list. You could mail to the list and then resend to the unopens. Many people keep more than one list however.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    Frequent adswaps will definitely reduce the quality of your list. Think about it... every time you do an adswap some of your subscribers will subscribe to the list of someone else. One might argue that your subscribers will still find their way on other lists by themselves, which is true, but encouraging them yourself to subscribe to other lists doesn't help any.

    Overall frequent adswaps are detrimental to a list. Sure you build your list quickly but you're sacrificing quality for quantity.
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  • Profile picture of the author bodimv1
    How can people be sure that our partners haven't been generating their links with spam and we won't be involved in spam?if that happen can we have any problems?
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  • Profile picture of the author bodimv1
    What sites would you suggest me for ad swaping?

    Can I do that with facebook or twitter pages? Any sites that offer that ... I mean something like reciprocial tweets and posts ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

    is this a common method that people use, to increase their list?
    Yes.

    Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

    what are the advantages of this method? (besides you can grow your list big?)
    It's temporarily satisfying for people who imagine that bigger lists necessarily lead in the long run to bigger incomes (that's nonsense, but many people believe it because they instinctively have quantitative approaches to everything they do in internet marketing, and don't quite appreciate the importance of quality, relevance, targeting, responsiveness and the other factors which are collectively of far greater long-term income-determining significance). To some people list-building is about how strongly and forcefully they can open the taps at the top without ever thinking about maybe putting a plug in the bottom first.
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    • Profile picture of the author davidkings
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Yes.



      It's temporarily satisfying for people who imagine that bigger lists necessarily lead in the long run to bigger incomes (that's nonsense, but many people believe it because they instinctively have quantitative approaches to everything they do in internet marketing, and don't quite appreciate the importance of quality, relevance, targeting, responsiveness and the other factors which are collectively of far greater long-term income-determining significance). To some people list-building is about how strongly and forcefully they can open the taps at the top without ever thinking about maybe putting a plug in the bottom first.
      Where are Coby and Shaun O Riley when you need them lol.


      What if using this method, you get to from 1000 ... to 10,000, to 20,000 (which might dilute the quality)

      but then you send the 20,000 to a squeeze page (where you will be promoting a launch), and if 4000 subscribe to this new list, you can promote your launch to this,

      so from the 20,000 list, you will send part of them to a new squeeze page, which would filter out the ones who are not interested, and capture the ones who are interested ? how about that as a method ?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mitch Barber
        There's a lot of good answers to your questions here. I personally started my list using a couple of solos and then lot's of swaps. Yes, there is a real danger of losing your subcribers, either by unsubscribes or them simply not opening your emails, if that is all you do. Because you're not offering anything of value from yourself and they ALWAYS have to input their email address (as a minimum) to get any of the content being offered by your swap partners. They will cotton on this and be a lot less responsive as time goes on.

        The trick, is to absolutely do ad-swaps because it is virtually cost free (safe-swaps charges $29 per month - which is well worth it IMHO) and highly targetted, but mix it in with quality content from yourself. That way you will minimise the unsubscribes and keep good open rates.

        Also, try to find swaps that are most relevent to the content that you're sending if you want to keep your open rates.

        I guess what I'm really saying is, just don't constantly bombard your subs with swaps. The will cotton on and unsubscribe or ignore you. Be creative and offer your own unique content and relationship building stuff while you do it. That way you'll stand out from the rest and have a quality list that looks forward to your emails.
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        • Profile picture of the author davidkings
          Originally Posted by Mitch Barber View Post

          There's a lot of good answers to your questions here. I personally started my list using a couple of solos and then lot's of swaps. Yes, there is a real danger of losing your subcribers, either by unsubscribes or them simply not opening your emails, if that is all you do. Because you're not offering anything of value from yourself and they ALWAYS have to input their email address (as a minimum) to get any of the content being offered by your swap partners. They will cotton on this and be a lot less responsive as time goes on.

          The trick, is to absolutely do ad-swaps because it is virtually cost free (safe-swaps charges $29 per month - which is well worth it IMHO) and highly targetted, but mix it in with quality content from yourself. That way you will minimise the unsubscribes and keep good open rates.

          Also, try to find swaps that are most relevent to the content that you're sending if you want to keep your open rates.

          I guess what I'm really saying is, just don't constantly bombard your subs with swaps. The will cotton on and unsubscribe or ignore you. Be creative and offer your own unique content and relationship building stuff while you do it. That way you'll stand out from the rest and have a quality list that looks forward to your emails.
          so basically the adswap niche should be in the same niche that your list is in.

          If your list is interested in blogging, the adswaps list should be alist interested in blogging too (rather than a ad, whose list is about affiliate marketing)
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Originally Posted by davidkings View Post


    Coby is on holiday I read in a thread but he knows this stuff lol, thanks guys
    Hey, I'm back home now. I'll see if I can help answer your questions...

    1.) Yes, this is a common strategy to build your list.

    2.) The advantages are it's fast and free and it's targeted traffic.

    3.) Some pitfalls to avoid are sketchy marketers. Folks sending fake traffic, not sending the agreed amount of clicks, not sending on the agreed day, etc.

    4.) You need to be cautious of "overdoing" it. You can burn out your list easily with too many adswaps. To get the most benefit from this method you need to diversify your traffic. Don't rely only on adswaps for your traffic generation. You also must make an effort to provide value to these new subscribers. Find a way to stand out to them so they forget about the other "adswap" lists they are on.

    5.) Yes, unfortunately when your list gets that big you will have some junk subscribers not many what traffic source you are using. It's just human nature to lose interest, change email addresses, change internet providers (and thus the email attached), etc.

    You will need to monitor your subscribers and take advantage of the filters available at Aweber, GetResponse etc to find out who is and isn't opening your emails. With a little digging it will be easy to identify the "junk" subscribers and remove them from your list.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Coby

    P.S. Here is a coaching session I did about using ad swaps that might help...

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  • Profile picture of the author Donimo
    In my experience if you are looking to make money direct from marketing affiliate products (or your owm) to your list, then adswaps DONT work, and do more harm to your lists than what they gain.

    On the other hand though, if you are looking to sell solo ads constantly from your list then it can be a good idea. Ad swaps can certainly get your subscribers up, and even your clicks however the way the mass swap circle works is that you will have a list full of freebie seekers, and people who are subscribed to your list, along with a Bundle of other marketers lists.

    I have no doubts that if you serial adswaps, your subscribers will receive your email along with 20 other emails per day from other marketers.

    The best way to gain quality subscribers (not large volume subscribers) is to have those who have purchased one of your products, or have even been gained from organic sources. Gaining subscribers from sources such as, PPV, PPV, and even Google traffic is worth so much more than adswaps subscribers.

    Don't get caught in the never ending spiral of adswaps. Just because you have a lot of subscribers does NOT mean the list can make you good money!
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    • Profile picture of the author davidkings
      Originally Posted by Donimo View Post

      Don't get caught in the never ending spiral of adswaps. Just because you have a lot of subscribers does NOT mean the list can make you good money!
      Even if you provide a unique out of the box newsletter to them (so you stand out from the crowd of the other lists they are on) , and provide value to them?

      as Coby advised above ?
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      • Profile picture of the author Donimo
        Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

        Even if you provide a unique out of the box newsletter to them (so you stand out from the crowd of the other lists they are on) , and provide value to them?

        as Coby advised above ?
        This may make you stand out a bit, but like I said it won't make you stand out enough, as the chances are these subscribers will be on LOADS of other lists and will be getting spammed with emailed constantly.

        Standing out and trying to make sure your subscribers know who you are and expect your email is much harder than it seems, even if you offer a high quality freebie and a good followup series.

        I can bet you that 90 percent plus of email marketers who are earning a considerable amount from email marketing don't use adswaps whatsoever, not unless it's a JV partnership or something similar.
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        • Profile picture of the author Coby
          Originally Posted by Donimo View Post

          This may make you stand out a bit, but like I said it won't make you stand out enough, as the chances are these subscribers will be on LOADS of other lists and will be getting spammed with emailed constantly.

          Standing out and trying to make sure your subscribers know who you are and expect your email is much harder than it seems, even if you offer a high quality freebie and a good followup series.

          I can bet you that 90 percent plus of email marketers who are earning a considerable amount from email marketing don't use adswaps whatsoever, not unless it's a JV partnership or something similar.

          I have to disagree some of my most loyal customers have come from adswaps. Also, I have friends making 5 and 6 figures a month doing NOTHING but adswaps so I don't think it's fair (or correct) to say that any email marketer earning a considerable amount is not doing adswaps.

          There is more than one way to earn an income from email marketing and I don't think it's fair to spread half truths unless you have considerable experience in the field yourself and have been immersed in that community.

          I have been deep within the list building/ad swap/solo ad community for over three years and have even started some trends that have become "mainstream" (such as mini-events).

          You are correct about one thing though - "standing out" is definitely harder than it sounds which is why it's so effective when done correctly because most DON'T even attempt to stand out. Don't be a cookie cutter marketer.

          Just my 2 cents.

          Cheers,
          Coby

          P.S. I'm a gambling man so I'd definitely take your bet that 90% of email marketers that are making a "considerable" amount are not using ad swaps.
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          • Profile picture of the author davidkings
            4.) You need to be cautious of "overdoing" it. You can burn out your list easily with too many adswaps. To get the most benefit from this method you need to diversify your traffic.
            Can you define overdoing it (I know a solo ad everyday, for 14 days is overdoing it.) but can you give a more sensible frequency, with some example numbers for list size, which is a sensible way to do adswaps....please.
            -Lets say our list size is 2000 for the example, how many adswaps? how often? how many diff adswap marketers? thanks

            and what do you mean by you need to diversify your traffic?


            Coby /how many times a year do you launch/broadcast products (affiliate offers or your own) to your list?

            and how many months spaced out do you do your launches ?
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            • Profile picture of the author Coby
              Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

              Coby /how many times a year do you launch/broadcast products (affiliate offers or your own) to your list?

              and how many months spaced out do you do your launches ?
              I don't have anything set in stone since I travel a lot. But I like to broadcast a promo to my list at least once a week. I try to promote my own stuff, but I do rotate in affiliate offers and I also repeat previous affiliate promotions that do well.

              I like to resend/promote the same product about once every 3-6 months. I have some products that are 3 years old that I still promote to my list.

              The key is really finding what works and repeating it. Whenever I have a broadcast promo that does really well I make sure to take note of it so I can use it again in the future.

              As for product launches - I like to try to do one a month - but I've went as long as a year without doing a launch and at one point I was doing a launch a week for like 8 weeks...

              So, there is no "right" or "wrong" way. Just find out what works for you then do more of that, lol.

              Hope this helps.

              Cheers,
              Coby
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              • Profile picture of the author davidkings
                Yes it helped thanks, aswell as the other posts of people thanks.

                Can you also give your rough vague structure time table (the brown part i asked above) please dude.

                on how often to do adswaps with a list of 2000, what frequency, how many varied marketers.

                example:
                Jan 1st - Adswap with a marketers1 2000 list (My new list size grows to 2500)

                Feb 1st, Adaswap with marketer 2's 2500 list (My new list size grows to 3000)

                etc?

                can you give a vague example like that for 5 adswaps, with frequency/ how often, how many marketers etc.
                I know 'new' list size will be an approximation considering many factors, but just as a guide.


                also, what conversion rate would be a good acceptable one, that the % of subscribers should optin to your squeeze page? (that you would be expecting typically Coby ?, eg 35% ?)


                as Coby you and Shaun Riley know emailing/list building very well.... so many newbies will benefit from your answers to these questions.

                Thanks
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                • Profile picture of the author Coby
                  Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

                  Yes it helped thanks, aswell as the other posts of people thanks.

                  Can you also give your rough vague structure time table (the brown part i asked above) please dude.

                  on how often to do adswaps with a list of 2000, what frequency, how many varied marketers.

                  example:
                  Jan 1st - Adswap with a marketers1 2000 list (My new list size grows to 2500)

                  Feb 1st, Adaswap with marketer 2's 2500 list (My new list size grows to 3000)

                  etc?

                  can you give a vague example like that for 5 adswaps, with frequency/ how often, how many marketers etc.
                  I know 'new' list size will be an approximation considering many factors, but just as a guide.


                  also, what conversion rate would be a good acceptable one, that the % of subscribers should optin to your squeeze page? (that you would be expecting typically Coby ?, eg 35% ?)


                  as Coby you and Shaun Riley know emailing/list building very well.... so many newbies will benefit from your answers to these questions.

                  Thanks
                  I personally do 1 or 2 adswaps on most weeks. Some weeks I will do zero and some weeks I might do as many as 3.

                  I think 3 a week (or less) is enough to keep your list growing but without beating them up too much or having too much list dilution.

                  As far as 'how fast' that question is hard to answer because it depends on so many variables... For me personally I was able to get to 10,000 subscribers within about 6 months. However, I was doing more than just ad swaps. I was also buying lots of traffic, blogging, creating content etc.

                  But for a rough estimate - I would think a list of about 2,000 would do about 100 clicks or so (that would be 5% click through). You can expect conversions from 20%-60% depending on your squeeze page. So, if you are averaging 35% conversions you could expect to add 35 people to your list each adswap. So if you were doing 3 a week you would be adding approximately 105 people to your list or about 440 per month which would work out to around 5,000 after a year (I think, I'm not good at math, lol). Of course - this is using simple math and not accounting for the new growth or subscriber loss.

                  These numbers are a little on the conservative side but should help you get an idea.

                  Hope this helps.

                  Cheers,
                  Coby
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                  • Profile picture of the author davidkings
                    Originally Posted by Coby View Post

                    I personally do 1 or 2 adswaps on most weeks. Some weeks I will do zero and some weeks I might do as many as 3.

                    I think 3 a week (or less) is enough to keep your list growing but without beating them up too much or having too much list dilution.

                    As far as 'how fast' that question is hard to answer because it depends on so many variables... For me personally I was able to get to 10,000 subscribers within about 6 months. However, I was doing more than just ad swaps. I was also buying lots of traffic, blogging, creating content etc.

                    But for a rough estimate - I would think a list of about 2,000 would do about 100 clicks or so (that would be 5% click through). You can expect conversions from 20%-60% depending on your squeeze page. So, if you are averaging 35% conversions you could expect to add 35 people to your list each adswap. So if you were doing 3 a week you would be adding approximately 105 people to your list or about 440 per month which would work out to around 5,000 after a year (I think, I'm not good at math, lol). Of course - this is using simple math and not accounting for the new growth or subscriber loss.

                    These numbers are a little on the conservative side but should help you get an idea.

                    Hope this helps.

                    Cheers,
                    Coby
                    Thanks

                    Can that exact similar time table plan work for buying solo ads (instead of adswaps)

                    what are the differences between doing your above plan for adswaps compared to solo ads?

                    besides solo ads will cost money, what other differences?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Coby
                      Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

                      Thanks

                      Can that exact similar time table plan work for buying solo ads (instead of adswaps)

                      what are the differences between doing your above plan for adswaps compared to solo ads?

                      besides solo ads will cost money, what other differences?
                      Yes it could work for solo ads also. The traffic is similar so not much differences in the subscribers you will get. The main difference is that you won't have to send out emails to gain these subscribers so there will be less unsubscribes. You can use those emails that would be 'adswaps' for value emails to help build a relationship with them.

                      However, I suggest doing both ad swaps and solo ads at the same time. Also, I suggest getting your traffic from any other sources possible such as Social Media, PPC, PPV, so on and so forth.

                      Good luck.

                      Cheers,
                      Coby
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                • Profile picture of the author Mitch Barber
                  Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

                  Yes it helped thanks, aswell as the other posts of people thanks.

                  Can you also give your rough vague structure time table (the brown part i asked above) please dude.

                  on how often to do adswaps with a list of 2000, what frequency, how many varied marketers.

                  example:
                  Jan 1st - Adswap with a marketers1 2000 list (My new list size grows to 2500)

                  Feb 1st, Adaswap with marketer 2's 2500 list (My new list size grows to 3000)

                  etc?

                  can you give a vague example like that for 5 adswaps, with frequency/ how often, how many marketers etc.
                  I know 'new' list size will be an approximation considering many factors, but just as a guide.


                  also, what conversion rate would be a good acceptable one, that the % of subscribers should optin to your squeeze page? (that you would be expecting typically Coby ?, eg 35% ?)


                  as Coby you and Shaun Riley know emailing/list building very well.... so many newbies will benefit from your answers to these questions.

                  Thanks
                  Hey David,

                  I know Coby's already given you some great answers to this question, so I just want to ad a little bit extra that may help.

                  With regards to your questions about timetable and how often to do ad swaps with a certain list size, etc.

                  You don't have to be so rigid in your thinking here. First of all, your list size is irrelevent to how often you send a swap. What's much more important is your list responsiveness. You want to keep a very detailed record of your open rates and your click through rates (in terms of percentage). If your open rates start to fall, then you're sending too many swaps in relation to your value emails. (Or your value emails are not having the impact you were hoping for).

                  If that happens reduce your swaps and focus on value and relationship building. Ideally you don't really want to have a roller coaster of more swaps sometimes and lesss swaps at others. Try to find a balance where your open rates remain (at least) stable, and preferably increase whilst your doing your swaps. The way to do that is to make sure you're constantly providing value to your subs (without them having to pay - emails submits are a price) and building the relationship (let them get to know you).

                  So, in short, it's a matter of testing what works and not about some predifined schedule. You will work out your ideal schedule by testing and keeping track of open rates and click-throughs.

                  The reason no-one else can give you a schedule is because everyone has their own unique 'voice' with their list and they will respond to different people in different ways. You need to specifically see how they respond to you by watching the metrics I've just talked about (open rates, click throughs, etc.).

                  In short, keep your list engaged and don't do swaps that will be of no interest to them.

                  Solo's are no problem in that regard because your email is going to other peoples lists. Do as many of them as you can afford!
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                  We don't need to Compete, if we'll only just Create! When we create, there is no competition.

                  Take the pain out of Affliliate Marketing and make some money as soon as tommorrow!
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    adswaps are one of the best methods when it comes to leveraging your list but at the same time ad swaps are also one of the worst ways to build your list because the quality can be complete junk and burned out traffic

    the reason why the traffic will be burned out and hammered to death a lot of the time is because if you use something like safe swaps or any other platform where all everyone does is swap lists

    i look at it from a more common sense perspective and do the odd ad swap to build my list but only with hand picked marketers that i know treat their list very well

    i may only do 1 swap every couple of weeks or once per month and i'm happy with this

    i don't use ad swaps as an everyday thing i just use them as some extra list building firepower when ever i want to add a few hundred new subscribers to my list

    ad swaps are very powerful but are not to be abused or used too often

    this is just my opinion of course and by sticking to these rules i have a good responsive list

    paul
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