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Self-promotional gray area

by Jon Patrick
39 replies
There's an issue that often bugs me as I'm browsing the forum. I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this subject.

What I'm referring to is the (very) thinly veiled self-promotion I see on a regular basis. I've noticed a few posters who do it in nearly every single post. It generally goes something like this:

1. OP asks a question about a particular topic.
2. The self-promoter replies, and the first part of that reply is non-self-promotional advice. Then the second part of the reply involves a statement along the lines of "That's why I teach [insert topic here]" or "I've been teaching how to [insert topic here] for years."
3. The reply includes a signature link offering to teach you [insert topic here].

It's painfully obvious and has started to get on my nerves as I see it time and time again. It would be one thing to simply reply in threads about topics related to your signature link, and let your signature link do its work. But to openly reference the service you provide within your replies themselves, in a nonstop, patently self-promotional fashion, seems to go against the clear meaning of the ban on self-promotion outside the paid advertising sections of the forum.

Am I right? Am I wrong?

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. I'm not trying to be a busybody here. It's just starting to get really old.
#area #gray #selfpromotional
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

    It's painfully obvious and has started to get on my nerves as I see it time and time again.
    Many people have mentioned to me that this (and closely related things) can get on their nerves.

    They get on my nerves, too.

    I've discussed it with more than one of the moderators. I think it's not easy for them. These things are ultimately judgement-calls, and all one can do is report such posts. If a few people do that, they get soft-deleted until an official moderator sees the reports and decides what to do (and I'm only guessing that if several members have reported the same post, an official moderator might to some extent be influenced by that - it would be difficult not to be, perhaps?). And if you're the only one to report them, an official moderator will then "just decide". You win some; you lose some.

    Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

    It would be one thing to simply reply in threads about topics related to your signature link, and let your signature link do its work. But to openly reference the service you provide within your replies themselves, in a nonstop, patently self-promotional fashion, seems to go against the clear meaning of the ban on self-promotion outside the paid advertising sections of the forum.
    I think those will always be removed, if reported.

    The problem, in my opinion, is with all the things (of which - again, in my opinion - there's a gradually increasing proportion as people "get away with it") that fall short of that degree of blatantness but are still irritating and (to me) a relatively clear abuse of the forum's hospitality.

    Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

    Am I right? Am I wrong?

    I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.
    I think you're absolutely right, and I'm glad you posted, because much though I'm quick to agree with you, I admit that I wouldn't have done so on my own.

    I've reported a few today/yesterday involving people "turning the conversation around to SMS marketing" when the threads had absolutely nothing to do with that at all (but their signatures did). But today I didn't report the ones in the hosting threads where people promoting hosting in their signature-files along expressly "anti-Hostgator"/"anti-EIG" lines come into the conversation, because some experience of "unsuccessfully" reporting those, recently, has led me to conclude that - at least for the moment - they're allowed to do that (or "get away with that", as I see it). These are, are you mentioned in the title, "gray areas", because it's not a great stretch to expect that people with a sig-file relevant to something specific are going to have knowledge of the subject and sometimes genuinely contribute something to the thread that nobody else had said. Ultimately, all you can do is report what you genuinely feel is "against the rules", allow for the fact that there are necessarily judgement-calls involved, and hope not to piss off the moderators by doing so.

    Depending on my own moods (and wellbeing), I do sometimes have difficulty differentiating between "what irritates me" and "what's against the rules", but to be fair, I think it's quite often not clearcut at all, and I've certainly seen mods commenting that there are questions of judgement and acknowledging that mistakes are always possible. So I don't get too upset if I can't always tell what's going to be acceptable.

    Unless I feel someone's really been "overtly trolling" (and I must say those are almost always removed when I report them), I don't normally check back to discover whether what I report has actually been removed, anyway. I don't care about most of them that much, and I feel that reporting it is all I need to do, to be "public spirited" about it and at least let a moderator make a decision, after which it isn't my business anyway.

    One thing's for sure: if nobody reports this stuff, it stays up and its perpetrators feel it was acceptable and they continue to do it. I'm rambling now, and will stop.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Imagine a forum full of marketers engaging in self promotion... LOL
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      Imagine a forum full of marketers engaging in self promotion... LOL
      :p

      Nonetheless, the rules are there for a reason.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

        :p

        Nonetheless, the rules are there for a reason.
        Forgive me. I couldn't help myself. I used to get pretty bugged by that stuff and I've done my share of reporting it. But it's a full time job and there are better things occupy my (and your) time. I do still report blatant spam and obvious violations of the rules but borderline stuff, not so much.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          Forgive me. I couldn't help myself. I used to get pretty bugged by that stuff and I've done my share of reporting it. But it's a full time job and there are better things occupy my (and your) time. I do still report blatant spam and obvious violations of the rules but borderline stuff, not so much.
          It actually wasn't you I quoted, but yours was funny as well.

          And, I don't know - it does get pretty blatant and obvious when nearly every one of a poster's replies in various threads specifically references the service they provide within the reply itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Do you think this type of thing gives certain people an unfair advantage?
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  • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
    This is the wrong way to look at it. I think IMers often have a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde approach when it comes to the issue of self-promotion/marketing.

    To be successful in business, you MUST be focused and INTENTIONAL about it. You CANNOT just quietly put something out there and hope people will connect the dots on their own, sign up to your list and buy from you. You must let them know what you have to offer and give them a specific reason to buy from you now (or soon).

    If someone has first given you value through their advice and support, then they have EARNED the right to offer their products/services to you. Period. They've certainly invested a lot more time and effort in you individually than if you'd found them through an ad.

    Of course, beyond that, it is your choice to take them up on it or not.

    I know that there are a lot of scammers and people who do nothing but pitch. But I also see IMers being the most harsh and negative towards other marketers. You can't hope to make big money online and still view other marketers' marketing efforts negatively. Either you believe you need to market to make money or you don't. The same standard applies to you that applies to them. You can't have it both ways.

    Just like paying off debt or losing weight, the issue is not the issue. That is, losing weight or paying off debt isn't really about money or food. It's about our underlying beliefs, attitudes and behaviors. In IM, it's NOT about self-promotion. It's about our attitudes and beliefs about self-promotion.

    IM can be really hard in the beginning because we were all taught not to talk about ourselves, focus on others, etc. and self-promotion is the opposite of that. We also have various beliefs and attitudes towards money: money is bad; rich people are evil; etc. And all of that sabatoges our efforts, productivity and effectiveness.

    Being successful is as much about what's going on in your head as much as it is about the actual mechanics of business. As Jim Rohn said: "I think everyone should set a goal to become a millionaire. Not for the million dollars, but for what it will make of you to earn a million dollars."

    Well said.

    And it starts with acknowledging that others have the right to promote their products and services, ESPECIALLY if they have led with value by offering helpful advice and support for free to begin with. That you've seen dozens of pitches already that day is irrelevant.

    The next step is recognizing that YOU need to be focused and intentional about building YOUR business. Do whatever you have to do to deal with your own beliefs and behaviors about self-promotion and make it happen!

    Hope that helps!

    Michelle
    Signature
    "You can't market here. This is a marketing discussion forum!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

      You must let them know what you have to offer and give them a specific reason to buy from you now (or soon).
      I agree there, and it's permitted to do so within the context of the paid advertising sections of the forum, as well as within signatures in the general forum itself. But there is still a rule against self-promotion in the general forum (other than signature content).

      If someone has first given you value through their advice and support, then they have EARNED the right to offer their products/services to you.
      I don't think that's true in this context. As far as I'm aware, the ban on self-promotion within posts in the general forum doesn't depend upon whether you give out some advice first. Otherwise, we could all treat every post as a free WSO thread, provided that we offered some token amount of advice first.

      But I also see IMers being the most harsh and negative towards other marketers. You can't hope to make big money online and still view other marketers' marketing efforts negatively. Either you believe you need to market to make money or you don't. The same standard applies to you that applies to them. You can't have it both ways.
      I think that's a little unfair. Disliking marketing efforts that skirt the rules and turn supposed discussion threads into promotional platforms is not equivalent to disliking marketing efforts in general.

      And it starts with acknowledging that others have the right to promote their products and services, ESPECIALLY if they have led with value by offering helpful advice and support for free to begin with. That you've seen dozens of pitches already that day is irrelevant.
      They do have the right to promote their products and services, in specifically designated areas (the paid advertising sections and signatures). But when it comes to the content of posts in the general forum, the rules seem to prohibit doing so.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Very blatant self promotion is pretty easy to spot; however, as the promotion moves further away from being open and blatant is gets harder and harder to assess.

        When someone says "I've been teaching this or that . . .," in my mind, I don't think you can be sure there is an attempt at self-promotion. If the poster says something like "check the link in my signature" then yes, that is going too far, in my opinion.

        I want people posting on threads in which they have a personal interest and expertise. If that means their signature is seen as well . . . well isn't that what signatures are for?

        If you get too discriminating here - such that a mod is guessing everyone's intention - I think that is going too far. One could argue that those members with high post counts are only posting so everyone will see their sig file link. Isn't that self promotion too? (I hope not)

        Steve
        Signature

        Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
        SteveBrowneDirect

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        • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
          Strangely, I can't find the actual rule that says you aren't supposed to make self-promotional posts in the general forum. And yet I'm 100% positive I remember that being a rule. :confused:

          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          Very blatant self promotion is pretty easy to spot; however, as the promotion moves further away from being open and blatant is gets harder and harder to assess.

          When someone says "I've been teaching this or that . . .," in my mind, I don't think you can be sure there is an attempt at self-promotion.
          When most of their replies to threads specifically point out that they provide a given service, and that service is linked to within their signature, it becomes pretty obvious in my view. Even more so when you notice that they regularly steer discussions in that direction when the thread hadn't gone there prior to their doing so.

          I want people posting on threads in which they have a personal interest and expertise. If that means their signature is seen as well . . . well isn't that what signatures are for?
          Yes, of course. I don't have a problem with people sharing their knowledge, or with their signature being visible when doing so. My problem is with the fact that they make a point of harping on the availability of their service within their post content, doing so over and over in nearly every thread to which they reply.

          If you get too discriminating here - such that a mod is guessing everyone's intention - I think that is going too far. One could argue that those members with high post counts are only posting so everyone will see their sig file link. Isn't that self promotion too? (I hope not)
          It is, but indirectly so, and in a way that complies with the rules (as self-promotion in signatures is allowed, and posting often is also allowed).
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

          What I was referring to is when someone explicitly refers to their own product or service within their actual post content (not signature content, although the signature does contain a link to the mentioned product or service), doing so again and again in almost every reply they post.
          I think that 100% of those (that I've reported) have been removed. I don't think anyone really disagrees with you about that.

          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          When someone says "I've been teaching this or that . . .," in my mind, I don't think you can be sure there is an attempt at self-promotion.
          Yes, I agree. I'm just more of a skepchick than most people, when someone selling a service/product says that (repeatedly).

          I remind myself that my own moods and state of wellbeing are always likely to influence how sure I feel about that. I always (like to) imagine that it's not beyond the moderators to say to themselves "Ooh well, Lexy must be having a bad day today" and shrug it off if I report the wrong things. But if I'm feeling really irritable, then I do stop reporting things "in case it's just me".

          However ... I think it's relatively easy to be sure that there's an attempt at self-promotion in some cases.

          I think that starting off a thread is a different kettle of fish from responding in a thread, in this sense. I have a much higher suspicion-index if people have started off threads on the subject of their own sig-files with apparent promotional intent. I do report those, whatever mood I'm in, although I know the moderators don't always agree with me about them (as is their right, of course). But when you see wording like "Why I'm so successful" in conjunction with a sig-file promoting a related service, starting off a thread, in my opinion it's very easy indeed to impute promotional intent correctly.
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          • Profile picture of the author brutecky
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            I think that starting off a thread is a different kettle of fish from responding in a thread, in this sense.
            Hmm you have to consider other things though. Let me use myself as an example. First though let me clarify that I always respond to threads (and dont self promote or do that see my sig stuff) and almost never start a tread.

            However consider this: I decide one night to write a thread on Facebook marketing. In that thread I talk about the many different ways to go about it such as posting regular content, using groups, running contests and ads on your fan pages etc.

            Now in my sig there are links to software that helps you with these things. Am I self promoting by starting this thread? No .. or at least that may not be my intent. You have to just consider that I started a thread about a subject Im very experienced in and am very well experienced in it because I write software for and work with Facebook marketers every day.

            What Im trying to say is that people may start threads with the genuine desire to post good helpful content. If they do this then the obviously be starting a thread about a topic they are experts in. If they sell products its also quite logical that they would be selling products about the topic they are experts in, which is also the topic of the tread they started.

            Having sig's AND having a forum where people sell things is a double edged sword. If you are going to allow sigs, and you are going to allow people to start threads that are just meant to help people or give info, then the experts who are providing these good info threads are sometimes naturally going to be the same people who have products based on there topics of expertise. Does this mean that they intended only to self promote? Not at all.

            I think the over all situation must be assessed. For example is the OP in the thread they started 3 lines of garbage. Or did they write a well written article that gives good use full info. If its the former than I think you could consider it spam. If the latter then it may not be .. and even if it was made for self promo .. its good useful content, so let em go anyway.

            Again just my 2 cents (which is probably only worth 1 1/2 cents by the time you read this due to inflation)
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    I actually have no problem with this at all.

    If I ask a question or ask for a specific thing and someone answers also offers something that is a solution to my problem its silly to say that they should not mention it to me so long as it genuinely might solve my problem or issue.

    Now I know its against the forum rules, but just saying. Me personally I never thought it was a bad thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
    Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

    Am I right? Am I wrong?
    You are absolutely correct.

    Unfortunately some people just don't get it.

    Just report a post if it's not right. Usually that post gets deleted and the poster usually tends to learn from that.

    Just keep in mind that some people take much longer to learn than you would expect. LOL.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Regarding the forum rules for not being too self-promoting, I believe there is a reason the rules are written the way they are. If they become too rigid and prescriptive, it becomes a nightmare to enforce. The same is true if you try to list every single "don't" that you could think of.

      Jon, you said
      "When most of their replies to threads specifically point out that they provide a given service, and that service is linked to within their signature, it becomes pretty obvious in my view. Even more so when you notice that they regularly steer discussions in that direction when the thread hadn't gone there prior to their doing so."
      If this is really happening, I can understand your frustration; however, I personally have not noticed it much. Maybe I'm not looking for it as you are apparently.

      As others have said, if you see a post that you think is going too far, why don't you simply report it? If the mods agree that should handle your concern. If they don't, than maybe you need to back off a little on what you consider to be self-promoting.

      Steve
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      Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
      SteveBrowneDirect

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      • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        As others have said, if you see a post that you think is going too far, why don't you simply report it? If the mods agree that should handle your concern. If they don't, than maybe you need to back off a little on what you consider to be self-promoting.
        I guess I've been hesitant to report it without knowing for sure what the consensus is on whether this type of post is or isn't acceptable. But I suppose the easiest way to find out would indeed be reporting it when I see it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
          Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

          I guess I've been hesitant to report it without knowing for sure what the consensus is on whether this type of post is or isn't acceptable. But I suppose the easiest way to find out would indeed be reporting it when I see it.
          If you see any blatant self-promotion, definitely report it. I saw the mods nuke quite a few over the past few days where the person either:

          • Asked members to PM them regarding their service (will get nuked every time if it's seen or reported).
          • Put in their URL to their product or service in their post (generally not a good idea)
          • Asked people to look at their signature. There's no need for a call to action, let the post and the signature do their own work. I know one mod who nukes these on sight.
          Also bear in mind that the mods look at the whole picture too. How long has the member been here? Do they have a history of bringing value and being helpful? They will get more leeway as long as their post is relevant and helpful.

          There are definitely some subjective calls that have to be made and one mod might let something go while another one might think it's okay.

          If you think something is a bit too self-promotional or if you notice a pattern, definitely use the "report post" icon (the red triangle underneath everyone's name). At least this way the mod(s) will take a look at it and make a judgment call.

          Another reason why you should report it it's because the mods might not delete the post, but if they started seeing a pattern of certain forum posting behaviors, then they'll take action if it's necessary. Without you reporting these things, the mods might miss it as there is no way they can catch everything.

          RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    About once a quarter I re-read Paul's posts here:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...bers-read.html

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...moderator.html

    Just to remind me what kinds of things to look for and what to report. I've been a member here for over ten years and I still learn new things on how things work around here. For example, for the longest time I had no idea we had a classified ad section. So when I saw someone's WSO "disappear" I thought, huh? Why did it vanish?

    Well, that particular WSO got moved to the Classified Ad section (for reasons I don't want to get into here). I also didn't know we had a forum for contests! It's amazing what one can learn by just poking around on the main WarriorForum.com page!

    And each of these sub-forums have their own rules too.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author illiptic
    We are marketers. Promotion is our craft

    What you are describing though is just an example of people being lousy at marketing.

    ...however I don't really see much point in complaining about it, since this is a public internet marketing forum with thousands of active users. You can't really blame people for going out there and taking action.

    Why not just report them or whatever if you think whats what you should do and just move on with your own business?

    Not to mention, there are tons of people on this forum that do help people, and the things that they promote are things they use themselves to get results.

    My suggestion is to stop focusing on what other people are doing (that are not your mentors) and instead choose to focus on your own marketing and your own business.

    (my 2 cents)
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
    Mate you're on an Internet Marketing forum, what exactly did you expect? Take everything you hear on here with a grain of salt.
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

    There's an issue that often bugs me as I'm browsing the forum. I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this subject.

    What I'm referring to is the (very) thinly veiled self-promotion I see on a regular basis. I've noticed a few posters who do it in nearly every single post. It generally goes something like this:

    1. OP asks a question about a particular topic.
    2. The self-promoter replies, and the first part of that reply is non-self-promotional advice. Then the second part of the reply involves a statement along the lines of "That's why I teach [insert topic here]" or "I've been teaching how to [insert topic here] for years."
    3. The reply includes a signature link offering to teach you [insert topic here].

    It's painfully obvious and has started to get on my nerves as I see it time and time again. It would be one thing to simply reply in threads about topics related to your signature link, and let your signature link do its work. But to openly reference the service you provide within your replies themselves, in a nonstop, patently self-promotional fashion, seems to go against the clear meaning of the ban on self-promotion outside the paid advertising sections of the forum.

    Am I right? Am I wrong?

    I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. I'm not trying to be a busybody here. It's just starting to get really old.
    If you come onto a forum and ask for help with something, chances are the people who know the most about it will be the ones who answer. In some cases those same people are selling a product centered around their area(s) of expertise. That doesn't make them a self-promoter for answering a question, simply because they happen to have a signature link. :rolleyes:

    There's a setting in the forum that makes it so you can't see signatures when you're signed in, you should just turn it on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      If you come onto a forum and ask for help with something, chances are the people who know the most about it will be the ones who answer. In some cases thsoe same people are selling a product centered around their area(s) of expertise. That doesn't make them a self-promoter for answering a question, simply because they happen to have a signature link. :rolleyes:
      I understand what you're saying, but that's not really what I was talking about.

      Answering a question on a particular topic while having a signature link related to the same topic is fine in my book. It's when you include a specific reference to your own product or service within your post itself - over and over in nearly every post you make - that I get a bit annoyed.

      It does appear, based on the replies here, that not everyone minds this. And, to be fair, I can't find the specific rule prohibiting self-promotional posts in the general forum (even though I'm positive I've seen that rule). So it's just my two cents.
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      • Profile picture of the author ronrule
        Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

        I understand what you're saying, but that's not really what I was talking about.

        Answering a question on a particular topic while having a signature link related to the same topic is fine in my book. It's when you include a specific reference to your own product or service within your post itself - over and over in nearly every post you make - that I get a bit annoyed.

        It appears some people don't mind this. And to be fair, I can't find the specific rule prohibiting self-promotional posts in the general forum (even though I'm positive I've seen that rule). So it's just my two cents.
        You should check out my Adsense guide, it might help you out.

        heh, just kidding. I think I get what you're saying, content creators have a tendency to believe that they really DO have valuable information (whether that's true or not varies). If it's relevant to the question, there's a natural inclination to offer their product as a solution. There are dozens of times I've seen threads here where people asked a specific question that I knew was answered in one of my books or strategy guides, it's tempting to want to give them a nudge toward it. Some would call it self promotion, others would call it a relevant answer. I guess it all depends on the relevance to the original question.
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      • Profile picture of the author makie
        You know what would help get rid of this stuff?

        If everybody reading this post would buy my product!


        Haha just kidding. Its a funny video. The thing that is really
        bad about it is the super newbs that don't know any better.

        They ask a question to get a genuine answer and a lot of
        times they get an answer with a sales pitch attached to
        it.

        In my opinion the Sig is enough and its classy.

        I have joined lists and even bought stuff from people
        on this forum from just reading there post and if I like
        what there talking about I'll most likely click on there Sig.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Jon,
          Nonetheless, the rules are there for a reason.
          Yes, they are. And understanding the reasons is why we don't just give everyone delete authority, or access to the ban button. In fact, the "newest" mod with ban access has been a member for over 5 years.

          Sig files are relevant if they seem to be the point of a post. We are not going to tell someone who's an expert in Area XYZ that they can't post on the topic just because they also sell something relevant to their expertise. That would be criminally stupid.

          The example Alexa mentioned serves to illustrate the point nicely. We have a number of members who sell web hosting and who regularly answer questions about the topic, including references to the fiasco which is EIG. Some people feel this falls into the gray area you mention. I don't. They are not promoting their services, and often point to multiple other viable options without any reference to their own services outside their sigs.

          And they do not point to their sigs, directly or indirectly.

          Now, if they do a bunch of quick one-liners that make it seem as though their only purpose in posting is the sig exposure, that's different. And, as Alexa mentioned, a judgement call.

          That's one reason we're so slow, as some folks believe, to pull the eject lever on someone. We don't get those right every time, and won't until I fine tune my Universal Mind-Reading helmet to the point where it doesn't pick up ronrule's obsessive Batmania in the static...
          Strangely, I can't find the actual rule that says you aren't supposed to make self-promotional posts in the general forum. And yet I'm 100% positive I remember that being a rule.
          It is such a common convention in online discussion forums that it's not needed to be listed. Sort of like not needing to have a rule on the door to a bar that says "Don't punch the other patrons in the face."

          Steve,
          as the promotion moves further away from being open and blatant is gets harder and harder to assess.
          Not a lot harder. Patterns count. And they're not hard to assess, given even a relatively small amount of data.

          Rod,

          The "PM me for more info" thing is treated as worse than typical spamming. It's a deliberate and obvious attempt to get around the rules. I am so sick of that game that I've started issuing bans for it, and will be escalating the number and severity of those bans over the next few weeks.

          That's a step beyond "see my sig" in terms of abuse.


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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            BTW... from http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...moderator.html

            Now, for the most commonly misunderstood concept: Self-promotional posts.

            The prohibition on spam is not an arbitrary one. If ads are allowed unchecked, they'll choke out useful communication. We've all seen what that can do to email, and it can happen even more quickly with a forum.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            We are not going to tell someone who's an expert in Area XYZ that they can't post on the topic just because they also sell something relevant to their expertise. That would be criminally stupid.

            The example Alexa mentioned serves to illustrate the point nicely. We have a number of members who sell web hosting and who regularly answer questions about the topic, including references to the fiasco which is EIG. Some people feel this falls into the gray area you mention. I don't. They are not promoting their services, and often point to multiple other viable options without any reference to their own services outside their sigs.

            And they do not point to their sigs, directly or indirectly.
            Forgive me for being unclear, as I must have been since several people have misunderstood my point. I get what you're saying here completely. What I was referring to is when someone explicitly refers to their own product or service within their actual post content (not signature content, although the signature does contain a link to the mentioned product or service), doing so again and again in almost every reply they post.

            It has just become a bit of a pet peeve of mine. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    There are many types of self-promotional posts that cannot be reported because they are obscure, and they can be justified.

    I’ve read many posts that are basically self-promotional, but they seem to be something else.

    Some of them are very funny…

    I don't think we can stop the general promotional tendency.

    On the other hand, everything we say can have a double meaning.

    Sometimes I ask myself if my post could somehow be considered to be promotional in a certain way, and many times I feel that yes, it could be interpreted as a self-promotional attempt if we would relate various factors (in the background) and take them into consideration.

    Sometimes it’s hard to be neutral.

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  • Profile picture of the author dyjetykjedtyk
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I've said this so many times that folks that know me around here are likely sick of hearing it, but many times the problem isn't in the tactic, it's in the execution.

      There are at least a double-handful of frequent posters whose comments have the same effect on me as banner ads - I recognize that they take up some space, but I don't really "see" them.

      The same thing applies to posters with a pattern of three word posts and five line sigs. You know that they only posted to drop a link, but they aren't really breaking the rules unless they're clumsy enough to do it as fast as they can to every topic on the front page.

      The other thing I'd like to point out is the difference between self-promotion and establishing one's bonafides.

      For example, I have a book on Email Marketing in my sig.

      If I'm replying in a thread on email marketing, list building, etc., I might mention that I've been building lists since the late 1990's as a way of offering some "proof" that I know what I'm talking about.

      If I mention that same fact in a thread on video creation or manuscript formatting, it really isn't relevant and could easily be misconstrued as self promotion.
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  • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
    Your right about the self promotion. I have seen plenty of that going on aswell as I browse through the topics. And the funny thing about it is that its like you can feel it coming as you look at some of the replies..lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    The rules on this seem to have tightened somewhat over the last few years here. Years ago there were plenty of people putting comments in their posts referring to their sig. Now one tends to get banned for doing that

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Chris-,

    Commenting in over 50% of the threads on the front page of main discussion will do that, too. Breathe, dude. Slow down.


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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Hi Jon:
    In high school, I would often ask pretty girls if they would study math with me. I was hoping we would study chemistry or even BIOLOGY!
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      Originally Posted by seobro View Post

      Hi Jon:
      In high school, I would often ask pretty girls if they would study math with me. I was hoping we would study chemistry or even BIOLOGY!
      I have no idea why you mention that... but I like your style.
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  • Profile picture of the author EasySt
    Share content, be helpful, and let your signature speak for itself...

    In my opinion...

    Not a big fan of that blatant self promo...
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I just two threads nuked because the poster posted their URL in their post, though bear in mind both those threads were also in the wrong forum.

    Blatant self-promotion, intended or not, usually gets flagged by the members here.

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  • Profile picture of the author BradVert2013
    If I have a question about email marketing (for example) and someone who is a master email marketer replies, with good and relevant advice, and has a link or two in their sig for their services, is this self-promotion?

    As long as the poster is adding value to the thread, then I have no problems. If the theoretical email marketer is posting on his/her topic of expertise, then great! In fact, I sometimes DO click on sig links when someone posts something about what they are good at. I consider it a potential resource.

    It's such a gray area that I don't envy the mods who have to make these judgment calls. I think a person's posting history should weigh big into a decision to ban someone or not. Certainly a member with thousands of good posts will be given much more leeway than me, who only has a handful.

    Just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Well, I can think of 100's of things in life to be thankful for, verses getting bothered and negative over what your talking about.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mogly
      Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

      Well, I can think of 100's of things in life to be thankful for, verses getting bothered and negative over what your talking about.
      This... why waste time on this.
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