How can we simplify the process for newbies getting started online?

11 years ago

Hey Mikeal,

This is the main question I think we all struggle with. How to train a newbie to know the very basics to they can get started.

A website? A PDF? An Audio Course?

Personally I think the best way is to structure a step be step process, not leaving a single step out that they can follow. Most want to be taken by the hand and led through it all.
If you can create that, I think you have a solid foundation for newbies.

Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Aron

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mikeal 11 years ago

Hi There,

It seems that is what is needed, Most people want to be told what to do but they want to know all the options and possibilities as well so they can make an informed choice.

Then there is always the thought of "did I make the right choice" and at what point does it become the wrong choice?
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- Highway55 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mikeal
  
  Then there is always the thought of "did I make the right choice" and at what point does it become the wrong choice?
  
  Therein lies the problem. Paralysis by analysis for most newbies. Too much information gathering. But... it's not the basic information that trips the newbies up - it's not taking action once they have the information.
  
  Not everyone wants to take the same path, so there isn't a cure all for getting newbies started properly. There are only basic steps for each potential direction. Once a newbie has a direction they want to go in - then action must ensue.
  
  Without action theory is useless. Always will be.
  
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artflair

11 years ago

Originally Posted by mikeal

Hi Warriors,

Is there a way we could simplify the way in which newbies get started in online marketing.?

There is so much information out there and so many different options to take, it is no wonder that lots of people give up before they even get started.

I always recommend to start offering services first - that's the fastest way to start making money online and seeing real results, which gives a huge morale boost.
The money made with services can be then reinvested in other things like a blog, solo ads, ppc etc...
And the best thing about it is that anyone can do it without a huge investment!
Good luck guys

Art

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mikeal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by artflair

I always recommend to start offering services first - that's the fastest way to start making money online and seeing real results, which gives a huge morale boost.
The money made with services can be then reinvested in other things like a blog, solo ads, ppc etc...
And the best thing about it is that anyone can do it without a huge investment!
Good luck guys

Art

I think the morale boost is a great point as it is this than can be the difference between giving up and keeping going.

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Michael Nguyen

11 years ago

I think you need to lay out the options and see which one resonates with them, off the top of my head you have:

Article writing
SEO services
Web development
Amazon / Affiliate website
Solo ads business
Product creation
Listing building

and more. Which of these do you think you'll like? Then you start learning the mechanics behind all this. It's not acceptable to just say "I don't know, I'll try anything"

Basic internet marketing skills will help a lot as well.

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mikeal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen

I think you need to lay out the options and see which one resonates with them, off the top of my head you have:

Article writing
SEO services
Web development
Amazon / Affiliate website
Solo ads business
Product creation
Listing building

and more. Which of these do you think you'll like? Then you start learning the mechanics behind all this. It's not acceptable to just say "I don't know, I'll try anything"

Basic internet marketing skills will help a lot as well.

I think the problem for some people might be that they "just don't know". Here is what they might know - 1) They hear that "internet marketing" is the way to go, 2) They know they are sick of their boss 3) They know it is a minefield.

Beyond that they are a rabbit in head lights...

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The Niche Man 11 years ago

I understand your point, in theory. But actually that's the beauty of a free enterprise system. Lots of different choices. That gives everyone a chance. And the ones who make the smartest decisions among the many choices wins.

The online marketing threshold is already low enough. In fact, there is more information to help people get started in online marketing than any other industry I can think of already.

That could be a problem as you point out, an advantage or a weeding out process.

Making it too easy for everyone somehow weakens the overall system in my opinion. It's almost like making medical or law school easier.

Every thriving industry has a weeding out process for the lazy and bad decision makers.

Making the most effective choices among mountains of information, hype and scammers is the weeding out process for online marketing now.

The mountains of information is increasing, that forces everyone to make smarter choices, to keep learning new things and avoid complacency.

And those who don't feel like it, the system will force them to step aside and make room for those who will.
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sudo rank

11 years ago

If you're getting started with IM or SEO then all the information is out there, it's just a Google away plus you have people like myself, Matthew Woodward and of course the entire Moz team explaining on a daily basis how all this stuff works.

The main issue IMHO is that 99% of people are lazy. Sure, they want the "blogger lifestyle" (Is there such a Thing) and they want plenty of cash but they can't accept that it takes time, patience and a hunger for learning to get there.

Personally I don't believe it's a bad thing that the barrier to entry is high. If everyone could do what we do then the profits would be non-existent.

Exclusivity, that's what makes a good SEO / IM / Social Person so Invaluable right now!

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jeremy49

11 years ago

My son is now on track for getting a first in an engineering degree at a local university.

But before he could start the course, the university insisted that he do a foundation year. All engineering students do the same foundation course that ensures that they have the basic skills in maths, physics, study techniques, CAD etc.. It ensures that students have the core skills and knowledge before they start their specialist engineering degrees.

At first, my son viewed this foundation year long course as a waste of time, as he had good grades in his A levels. However he soon discovered Engineering was a wide profession and that these core skills were essential. He also discovered the area he was originally going to go into, was not right for him and is now focused in a completely different area of engineering.

Therefore I think before a newbie is taught about Facebook marketing or Drop shipping etc.., perhaps they should do a foundation course in marketing, particularly to understand that this business is demand driven and not supply. Other topics could be drawing up a business plan, how to write good copy etc. I’m not saying to become master of these skills, but just a good understanding about how to go about it.

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The Niche Man 11 years ago

Personally, I don't think it gets any easier for a newbie to learn online marketing than to ...

1. Read post on the Warrior Forum.
2. Ask questions and advice.
3. Take action on the advice that makes sense to you.
4. Make necessary adjustments.
5. Rinse and repeat until successful.

If you need anything more than that .. get a mentor ... if not, a babysitter!
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cianci1129

11 years ago

Originally Posted by jeremy49

Therefore I think before a newbie is taught about Facebook marketing or Drop shipping etc.., perhaps they should do a foundation course in marketing, particularly to understand that this business is demand driven and not supply. Other topics could be drawing up a business plan, how to write good copy etc. I'm not saying to become master of these skills, but just a good understanding about how to go about it.

Couldn't agree more. Basic business concepts, including sales funnels i.e. upsells, have been around way before the internet. Once one understands the concepts, they would have a much more clear idea of what they were getting themselves into. Seems lots of folks start off playing with web hosting, creating squeeze pages but but really understanding how the whole thing really works. Then many get discouraged early..

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Nightengale

11 years ago

Originally Posted by cianci1129

Couldn't agree more. Basic business concepts, including sales funnels i.e. upsells, have been around way before the internet. Once one understands the concepts, they would have a much more clear idea of what they were getting themselves into. Seems lots of folks start off playing with web hosting, creating squeeze pages but don't really understanding how the whole thing really works. Then many get discouraged early..

This! ^^^^^

Too many Warriors think in terms of building a website instead of building a business. It's a critical error.

A website is not a business! A business has a website.

And because so many Warriors don't understand basic business concepts, they're mired in the details of websites, autoresponders, squeeze pages, etc. and STILL can't get it to work.

Or, they had some brief success, but can't duplicate it no matter how hard they try. Or, like Steven Wageheim, they have a lot of success with one lead/traffic source. Worse, that source was heavily dependent on Google.

True business owners know they need multiple lead sources, that they can't put all their eggs in one basket. Having just one source of leads/traffic makes your business VERY vulnerable, as Steve found out.

Warriors would be much better off learning basic business fundamentals instead of just sticking to the "tech aspect" of IM. The tech constantly changes, but business fundamentals don't.

Michelle

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sjr4x4 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Nightengale

This! ^^^^^
A website is not a business! A business has a website.

I could quote all of Michelle's post as it's spot on, but that one line says it all, which so many people miss.

I'll add one of my own:
Get rich quick isn't a business model!

If you've pinned your hopes on someone's screen shot that shows how you will make $25,000 in 14 days, then this is an illusion, but a great demo of a call to action that tempted you. So now you have had you're first marketing lesson.

As lots of posters have said, the majority of people are lazy, want instant results to match the I want it now attitude of todays culture.

There is such an appetite for quick riches and instant fixes, that lazy newbie's simply fuel the get rich marketing machine that keeps the few in profit, and the majority are left dreaming.

People genuinely wanting to start a profitable business have never had so much help available than they have now. Forums, support websites, network meetings, everything you need is on a plate. Online businesses empower so many people, breaking down all barriers across race, culture, disability. For those with an entrepreneurial spirit and fire in their belly, there's plenty of money to be made.

Do lots of research, identify a target market, product or service. Do more research, then plan it all out, set realistic targets, experiment and start networking. You'll soon work out which ebooks, courses or systems are worth parting any cash for, or no doubt you'll soon be offering your own system to the unwary
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internetmarketer1

11 years ago

Originally Posted by jeremy49

My son is now on track for getting a first in an engineering degree at a local university.

But before he could start the course, the university insisted that he do a foundation year. All engineering students do the same foundation course that ensures that they have the basic skills in maths, physics, study techniques, CAD etc.. It ensures that students have the core skills and knowledge before they start their specialist engineering degrees.

At first, my son viewed this foundation year long course as a waste of time, as he had good grades in his A levels. However he soon discovered Engineering was a wide profession and that these core skills were essential. He also discovered the area he was originally going to go into, was not right for him and is now focused in a completely different area of engineering.

Therefore I think before a newbie is taught about Facebook marketing or Drop shipping etc.., perhaps they should do a foundation course in marketing, particularly to understand that this business is demand driven and not supply. Other topics could be drawing up a business plan, how to write good copy etc. I'm not saying to become master of these skills, but just a good understanding about how to go about it.

I have to say I do agree with this to some extent.

While it is good to now one thing, I do believe now that getting a good idea on what IM is and what it entails can be a huge helpful. Whether it's understanding the idea behind freelancing or affiliate marketing, I think this is a good idea.

Of course, avoiding information overload is the goal, while also trying to simply make it an introduction to what IM is.

TO EVERY NEWBIE: learn about the basics of IM. Get a good understanding of what it is in general, and then find a method or approach that fits your idea.

Do you want to be a freelance writer? What about a graphic designer? How about selling Clickbank products from your own blog or Wordpress site? Do you want to build your own forum? Do you want to do CPA marketing?

Research what it is that you feel suits your level, and continue on that road until you make money?

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Entrecon

11 years ago

Why? Why do you want to make it easy for them?

In my opinion, part of the problem with the online niche is everyone thinks it is easy. Make a crappy little website post a couple links or add a shopping cart buy button and the money will come flooding in. They get told in so many places that it is easy to make money online so you get people with little education and even less motivation who don't want to put in the work.

It isn't about making it easy for newbies. It is about laying down realistic expectations that it is going to be a full time job and take some effort to really make it. Sure, once everything is automated and you have a solid system in place, you can cut back, but that is not how it starts.

In most cases, newbies fail because they don't put in the time and don't put in the effort.

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MrFume 11 years ago

I am inclined to agree with Entrecon, while I would like to think an 'average Joe' can earn a good living if he applies himself,it seems the most common type is the one seeking shortcuts, unrealistic 'hacks' to instant cash - they seem to want to be told the 'secret' to online success. The grey dawn breaks and they finally understand it takes work, learning, time, persistence...this is the natural barrier, like any area of work online business takes time and experience. And there is no real end to it, it is a continuous learning curve!
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mikeal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Entrecon

Why? Why do you want to make it easy for them?

In my opinion, part of the problem with the online niche is everyone thinks it is easy. Make a crappy little website post a couple links or add a shopping cart buy button and the money will come flooding in. They get told in so many places that it is easy to make money online so you get people with little education and even less motivation who don't want to put in the work.

It isn't about making it easy for newbies. It is about laying down realistic expectations that it is going to be a full time job and take some effort to really make it. Sure, once everything is automated and you have a solid system in place, you can cut back, but that is not how it starts.

In most cases, newbies fail because they don't put in the time and don't put in the effort.

Hi all,

It's not that I want to make the entry "easy for them" its that I understand that the entry can be hidden with smoke and mirrors.. As this is a real issue for newbies, it then becomes possible fleece newbies and con them into thinking that "this is the right way"!

As they can be so desperate to get started, they also become prime target to be fleeced.

There are lazy people in many walks of life,Ii think that is just human nature. There are also good hard working people who are willing to take the drive but are just looking for that road map.

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Brent Stangel

11 years ago

Is there a way we could simplify the way in which newbies get started in online marketing.?

Give them all an aptitude test.

Oh...then 98% would never get started.

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CarolK

11 years ago

I am a "newbie" and I agree with others that have said you can't make it too easy. I see a lot of people new to this that want that magic button and they are determined to find it! They will soon find out it doesn't exist and the only magic button is the one that sellers of those "systems" created and that are counting on the uninformed to purchase the hyped up dream.

I have seen kind, helpful marketers give long, really helpful posts and the OP comes back with more questions and often it seems as though they aren't satisfied until the person actually does each step for them!

Everyone seems to be an overnight success, but for the most part, there are years and years poured into that overnight success and that isn't highlighted.

Success takes risk, failure, trying again in a smarter way, persistence, error and then yes the easier success then comes. I am thankful to those here that truthfully state what it takes to succeed and for a lot of people, they don't like that reality.

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mikeal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by CarolK

I am a "newbie" and I agree with others that have said you can't make it too easy. I see a lot of people new to this that want that magic button and they are determined to find it! They will soon find out it doesn't exist and the only magic button is the one that sellers of those "systems" created and that are counting on the uninformed to purchase the hyped up dream.

I have seen kind, helpful marketers give long, really helpful posts and the OP comes back with more questions and often it seems as though they aren't satisfied until the person actually does each step for them!

Everyone seems to be an overnight success, but for the most part, there are years and years poured into that overnight success and that isn't highlighted.

Success takes risk, failure, trying again in a smarter way, persistence, error and then yes the easier success then comes. I am thankful to those here that truthfully state what it takes to succeed and for a lot of people, they don't like that reality.

It's great that you have that sense of hunger and reality and to be honest, that in its self is a strength that lots of people do not have. It's for those that do not have that in their tool box (From the onset) that I refer to as needing a simplified process.

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Nightengale

11 years ago

It's already very simple. There are plenty of products and courses that do this already.

And the barrier to entry is so low that it creates it's own problems: attracting people who want a magic button, don't want to work, etc.

Even with the abundance of courses, tutorials, help from people who have actually done it themselves, people still complain:

1. It costs too much.
2. It's not complete enough.
3. It's overwhelming.
4. Can I build a business with NO money?
Etc.

Frankly, everyone has to figure it out for themselves. The help and info is there. And the WF exists to point you in the right direction. Everyone's journey is different:

Who you resonate with will not be who I resonate with. The course that overwhelms you may not overwhelm me. Your learning style may be different: I may prefer to read while you may prefer to watch. Etc. There is no one size fits all.

And even with all of the info available, people will still complain about one thing or another.

I think a better solution for your goal is to compile a list of recommended resources, both how-to courses/tutorials and tools (software, services, etc).

Hope that helps!

Michelle

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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

Do any of you really want to simplify things for newbies?

A good start would be offering fewer secret formulas, magic ninja systems, etc.

But then 85% of posters here wouldn't need a sig...

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Highway55

11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Do any of you really want to simplify things for newbies?

A good start would be offering fewer secret formulas, magic ninja systems, etc.

But then 85% of posters here wouldn't need a sig...

You don't believe in ninjas, John?

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mikeal

11 years ago

Thanks for the post Michelle.

I hear what you're saying and I subscribe to the "one mans meat is another mans poison" philosophy too. It may well be that this industry tends to attract its fair share of those you describe.

When you say it is already simple, It depends what you mean..

Yes it is simple to get your hands on free ebooks and read a bunch of material designed to get you started. Its also simple to pick a focus area and jump right in.

What's not simple though is siphoning through the mountains of information and working out if you are making the right decisions. For some people, they may have an allocated budget put aside for there new found venture. The idea of making the wrong decision could all but wipe them out.

There is also the possibility that they make the right choice after some careful consideration and due diligence but they fall foul of the pray that lurks within this industry and are sold the ultimate dream.

Lets face it, there are those making a living out of this practice and its not necessarily the lazy or the stupid that experience it.

For me it's a way of sifting through or avoiding the rubbish out there that would be of great value.
The work involved after that will be just as easy or just as hard but you will be doing it knowing that if you do put the effort in, its going to work. - (I say this with the limited degree of certainty that it can be afforded)

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Nightengale

11 years ago

Originally Posted by mikeal

What's not simple though is siphoning through the mountains of information and working out if you are making the right decisions. For some people, they may have an allocated budget put aside for there new found venture. The idea of making the wrong decision could all but wipe them out.

For me it's a way of sifting through or avoiding the rubbish out there that would be of great value.
The work involved after that will be just as easy or just as hard but you will be doing it knowing that if you do put the effort in, its going to work. - (I say this with the limited degree of certainty that it can be afforded)

I hear you. I know exactly what you meant. And the answer is still the same.

To help people sift through all of the info, come here for recommendations.

I've been posting here for years, recommending people get a single, comprehensive, A-Z IM course. The trouble with buying a $17 ebook is that, by definition, an e-book only covers a small piece of the whole IM pie. Without understanding the big picture, you're mired in the minutiae, forever lost in a sea of pieces, unable to put the whole puzzle together.

I've consistently recommended two very well-known, comprehensive courses to this forum. To date, there's only one person that I know has actually taken my advice.

I've also been repeatedly posting a simple, short article addressing the gaping hole of knowledge here: the exact flow of how business works online and online business models. In other words, the big picture.

My whole goal with that post to to help simplify it for newbies.

(I'm posting it below for your enjoyment. I've been thanked numerous times for it and I hope it's helped people.)

My intention and hope is for people to go from that short, simple, "big picture" post to a comprehensive course which will clear away their confusion and give them a comprehensive, step-by-step plan (instead of having to piece it together for themselves, one $7 e-book at a time).

But the nature of the beast is that, even when you put that info out there to help make it easier for newbies, either they

1. Don't see it (there are ALWAYS new people just starting to look for ways to make money online).

2. Don't believe it.

3. Don't act on it.

So I stand behind what I said originally: newbies don't need "more info in a more simple format." It's already simple.

What's better is to put together a list of recommended resources and point them to that info.

Oh yes... And don't oversimplify it either. Online business IS simple (see my post below), but the learning curve is STEEP. There's no getting around it.

And everyone will take a slightly different path. They'll choose different business models and different niches which dictate different methods, processes and even tools. You can only help people so much. They're going to do what they're going to do. And like children, sometimes they do things the hard or long way.

Hope that helps!

Michelle

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Nightengale

11 years ago

Clarity is a HUGE part of IM success. I hope this post brings some clarity. It's so simple when you know it -- and darn difficult when you don't! I owe my mentors a world of thanks for bringing this clarity.

IM is actually pretty simple: you can sell only one of two things:

1. Products
2. Services

That's it!

And selling products or services online happens in the same basic way for everyone, no matter what they're selling:

Traffic > Opt-in page > Autoresponder series (or e-zine) > Sales page

That's it! It's just that simple. (We IMers tend to overcomplicate things.)

But no matter what your niche is, or whether you're selling a product or a service, do you know what your business model is?

A business model is the framework or skeleton of your business. Essentially there are three types of online business models:

1. Membership-based model

A membership-based business model allows you to build a community of people (your members) who are as passionate about your subject as you are. Your membership fees can be monthly or annual, but either way, you're building recurring, passive income.

There are a lot of resources and information out there to help you build a membership-based business if you're interested in doing this.

2. Product-based model

Selling products allows you to maximize your time and effort by selling items over and over again. This can be hard goods or it can be information products. Information marketing is it's own business model under the product-based model. Information marketing allows you to take your brain to the bank by creating a product ONCE based on what you know and selling it over and over again.

Affiliate marketing falls under both models. You can choose to market either products or services as an affiliate.

3. Service-based model

Selling services can be great for 1) generating quick cash (as in the case of article writing or video producing) and 2) establishing your expertise and getting testimonials.

However, in the long run, your goal should be to offer services at a PREMIUM. The biggest advantage of IM is LEVERAGE. You're able to leverage your time, money and expertise exponentially online. We all have just 24 hours each day. Time to get ruthless about what you expect for those hours you spend in IM each day. Expect more of yourself and more from your business friends, clients, partners, etc.

What results are you getting for those hours you spend online each day? Ultimately, your services should be at the bottom of your funnel and cost the most since they involve your time and personal attention. (We all have a limited amount of time each day.)

The fun (and confusion) comes in with all of the endless mix-and-match possibilities of the above models. If you're just starting or still struggling to make money, keep it simple:

Pick just ONE!

1. Pick ONE niche. (Something you're interested in and know something about.)

2. Pick ONE target market for your product or service. (Who will buy what you're offering? The more specific you are, the more you narrow it down, the more successful you'll be.)

3. Pick ONE business model.

Now that you're clear about what business you're in, FOCUS! (And stop buying any info not related to your niche and target market, period!)

F -- Follow
O -- One
C -- Course
U -- Until
S -- Successful

And remember: build a list, Build a List, BUILD A LIST!

In IM, it's easy to put the cart before the horse. Take a deep breath, step back and consider what type of business you REALLY want. Don't worry about getting traffic or buying that expensive traffic product until you know 1) what your business model is, 2) what niche you're in and 3) WHO your target market is!

Successful business people will tell you that MARKETING is more than half the effort that's needed for success anyway. So pick a niche, target market and business model. Then spend most of your time and effort marketing it.

If you DON'T have a solid plan or system, THAT'S when it's hard. A good system will shave YEARS (and save you big $$$) off of your learning curve

That's why I recommend investing in at least one good, comprehensive IM course (or mentor who will give you such a system) instead of jumping from one $37 e-book to the next. A lot of people here complain about not being able to make any money. But neither are they willing to invest in their business. (Buying a random bunch of $37 e-books doesn't count.)

The best thing I ever did was invest in a comprehensive IM course aimed at REAL business owners, not just other IM wannabes. Yes it was $1500. (It's no longer available.) But it was truly some of the best A-Z IM info I ever bought. Everything else I've learned (from the $37 e-books) since has simply been plugged into this system.

My two best recommendations for phenomenal IM training programs are Ali Brown's Elevate program (ElevateBizTraining.com) and Jeff Walker's Product Launch Formula (ProductLaunchFormula.com)

Get a solid plan or system and then work the plan!

Hope this helps!

Michelle

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JohnMcCabe 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Highway55

You don't believe in ninjas, John?

Not when they're peddling super-secret marketing systems the gurus don't want you to know about, discovered only after hitting rock bottom and living in their car until discovering the secret.

Not when said ninja poses with a rent-a- mansion, rent-a-car and rent-a-girlfriend, dressed like some hipster doofus "making it rain"...

Most of the system peddlers are so full of BS you could grow daisies by sticking seeds in their ears. Especially the ones using blind copy and silly "make exactly $4,683.27 while washing your skimpies in the sink" promises.
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Highway55

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Clarity is a HUGE part of IM success. I hope this post brings some clarity.

You can sell only one of two things:

1. Products
2. Services

That's it!

And selling products or services online happens in the same basic way for everyone, no matter what they're selling:

Traffic > Opt-in page > Autoresponder series (or e-zine) > Sales page

That's it! ....

Pick just ONE!

1. Pick ONE niche. (Something you're interested in and know something about.)

2. Pick ONE target market for your product or service. (Who will buy what you're offering? The more specific you are, the more you narrow it down, the more successful you'll be.)...

F -- Follow
O -- One
C -- Course
U -- Until
S -- Successful

And remember: build a list, Build a List, BUILD A LIST!

Michelle

Michelle, I butchered your passage. But man was it good! I mean, if somebody reads what you just contributed and cannot get started... well, then, you know...

Clarity is such a great word. I used to listen to Brian Tracy talk about it all the time. Awesome post.

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franergy

11 years ago

I've been making money online since 1998.

The formula I use and recommend is as follows.

Look around and find no more than 3 people to follow
Get off of everybody else's list - I'm serious
Stick with those 3 people for 6 months minimum

If you've picked the right 3 people - who resonate with you - and are doing what you think
you might want to do (aff marketing, products, coaching, whatever), then I guarantee you will be 100 steps ahead in this game.

The key is not getting distracted and if you're ONLY getting messages, videos, PDFs from trusted
mentors - you will dodge the Shiny Object bullet and start making money. And if you follow this and DON"t make any money I'll fund your PayPal account with $50 - I'm serious. :-)

But you're gonna hafta prove that you've followed proven marketers and you've gotten off 56 lists.

The start stops most people - so get started now.

Let us know how it's going

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The Niche Man

11 years ago

Originally Posted by franergy

I've been making money online since 1998.

The formula I use and recommend is as follows.

Look around and find no more than 3 people to follow
Get off of everybody else's list - I'm serious
Stick with those 3 people for 6 months minimum

If you've picked the right 3 people - who resonate with you - and are doing what you think
you might want to do (aff marketing, products, coaching, whatever), then I guarantee you will be 100 steps ahead in this game.

The key is not getting distracted and if you're ONLY getting messages, videos, PDFs from trusted
mentors - you will dodge the Shiny Object bullet and start making money. And if you follow this and DON"t make any money I'll fund your PayPal account with $50 - I'm serious. :-)

But you're gonna hafta prove that you've followed proven marketers and you've gotten off 56 lists.

The start stops most people - so get started now.

Let us know how it's going

Woh! You had me getting ready to go for the 50 bucks until you mentioned that list thing.

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KenW3

11 years ago

Mike, I respect the intent behind your questions. The goal of truly helping someone just starting out is difficult at best, however, as most people are used to the employee mindset. They are used to being told exactly what to do, then expect to be paid for doing it. Business ownership is quite different from what many wanting to leave employment expect.

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Do any of you really want to simplify things for newbies?

A good start would be offering fewer secret formulas, magic ninja systems, etc.

In actuality, making money online -is- simple for business owners. Every person making money is either selling their own products and/or services, or they are helping others sell their products and services.

I've seen many methods for sales and marketing offered over the years and, if they are too specific and everyone does the exact same thing, over-saturation occurs. Creativity is needed to beat competition, but only experience can provide the edge needed to truly excel.

Originally Posted by mikeal

What's not simple though is siphoning through the mountains of information and working out if you are making the right decisions. For some people, they may have an allocated budget put aside for there new found venture. <clip>
There is also the possibility that they make the right choice after some careful consideration

Some believe it is possible to save n00bs from themselves. Lessons learned the hard way remain in memory, so is telling them everything helping or hurting future potential for success? What would their right choice look like?

In business, the right choice isn't in finding a way to work four hours a week. The right choice is not looking for immediate wealth. Those drawn to get-rich, be-lazy, and no-work-needed offers will always be the next victims. There's opportunity everywhere, but not for those looking for shortcuts.

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Zaflow

11 years ago

The problem is, there are so many different things to get into, there is informational products, step by step courses, services, physical product ect, and within those there are so many variables, blogs, SEO, forums, courses to follow, gurus, magical buttons, lists, squeeze pages, landing pages etc.

But to me as a newb the most difficult part is to weed out the legitimate courses and gurus from the "slap a few words on a pdf or upload a youtube series" and call your self a guru type of IM's.

through my journey into IM I've ran across both, and only now I can tell if the :guru: actually knows what they are talking about or they are simply making money on selling you the idea of "you can do it too" (no insult to anyone but I find %90 of ebooks, guides and courses are a waste of time)

The best info is the info that you get for FREE from valid sources and major blogs (like MOZ) or the info that you discover through trial or error,
When I was a complete newb, I felt like a sheep in a wolf land here, everyone is going after my money in the name of investment, but as a business person I look in the value they offer and I ask my self, how long is it going to take me to make the money back I paid for the course if I followed it, most of the time based on my own estimate I find that it will take a lot of time that its not worth it, so I stop following that person.

But please keep in mind that even though I'm a complete newb in IM, I'm not a newb in online selling, I have already built a successful business selling products online, so my "newb" look is a little more advanced than the average newb, I know what to look for when I try to sell someone something, I know how to "SELL" and I know what SELLS, but the part that I need help with is EYEBALLS

Do to answer your question, the best way to help newbs is to let them findout everything on their own, dont sell rubbish courses, offer value on something SPECIFIC and create something that will explain the very basic things up until the most advanced knowledge available, as much as there are courses around, very few actually do this.

Good luck to everyone and I tell all the newbs here is research what you need to do on your own, figure out exactly what you want to do, then and only then buy a step by step PROVEN course and follow or get a mentor.

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mikeal

11 years ago

Some great opinions out there..

KenW3,

It is true that those coming from the working environment are used to being told what to do and getting paid for it. The thing to consider here though is that they have now had enough of that and don't want that anymore! This is why they are now searching.

Zaflow,

I agree with what you have said in your post and I said some of those things earlier myself. There is far too much choice out there for the newbie so they do need to work out for themselves what they want to do. In my earlier post I said that understanding your own personality and tolerance to risk along with your own interests and skill set will help you to weed out the things that don't suit you.

There is tones of rubbish out there which can be well concealed from the hungry.

It goes without saying the sharpest learning is that of learning from mistakes. I guess where we might differ here is that those mistakes can be very costly and indeed flush someone out the game before they even get going.

The step by step quality information product is not in abundance unlike the step by step thrown together PDF.

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Highway55

11 years ago

Originally Posted by mikeal

It goes without saying the sharpest learning is that of learning from mistakes. I guess where we might differ here is that those mistakes can be very costly and indeed flush someone out the game before they even get going.

The step by step quality information product is not in abundance unlike the step by step thrown together PDF.

If you're a bootstrapper you can't get flushed out of the game monetarily. But you can get flushed out (mentally) if you keep reading and learning as an excuse not to start taking action and becoming familiar with processes.

Action creates confidence. Not the other way around.

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Hannak

11 years ago

What is actually killing newbies is INFORMATION OVERLOAD! If they can get a step-by-step guide, stick with it until they get result and close their eyes to every other shiny objects, they'd succeed. I'm talking from experience. A newbie will want to get all the shiny objects in his quest for knowledge, will want to know everything and in the process lose everything, if care is not taken.

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mikeal

11 years ago

That's a good point, action can create confidence. It sounds a bit like there is support for those that want it and the "bootstrappers" will still be there no matter how tough it gets. I know that most of us want to help those that are prepared for a fight but don't have a great deal of time for those that are not.

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Zachary R. Skinner

11 years ago

I think what would be really cool is if the warrior forum sponsored a crash course just for newbs that walked them through everything there is to know about IM

Sifting through WSOs and trying to learn is a great way to lose lots of money fast and not learn much of anything

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mikeal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Zachary R. Skinner

I think what would be really cool is if the warrior forum sponsored a crash course just for newbs that walked them through everything there is to know about IM

Sifting through WSOs and trying to learn is a great way to lose lots of money fast and not learn much of anything

This is very true. It just serves to give you a massive head ache and demotivate you.

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kris01

11 years ago

invest to a unique Done for you system, and traffic...and...see the $$$ coming in!
Adjust as requied then

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Joe Russell

11 years ago

Seems like everyones who claims to be successful now forgets what it was like to be a newbie.

Why should someone new have to do things the hard way...Just cause you did?

When I started online over 15 years ago there was no such thing as WordPress, if you wanted a website you coded it or had it coded for you.

How many using WP today know how to code their own site from scratch? If it wasn't for WP making it easier where would you be today...and thats just one example, there are plenty more.

It doesn't matter if its in IM or in life, we always strive to make things easier...its human nature.

The "I did it the hard way so you should have to as well" attitude is BS, where would the world be today if we all held that belief.

So how can we simplify the process further, slash the learning curve, eliminate shiny object syndrome, bad purchase decisions and provide proper direction?

Easy, develop a marketing platform that includes every single tool and resource needed that eliminates all the technical stuff through proper automation and provides all the necessary training from real experts.

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Highway55

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Russell

Seems like everyones who claims to be successful now forgets what it was like to be a newbie.

Why should someone new have to do things the hard way...Just cause you did?

When I started online over 15 years ago there was no such thing as WordPress, if you wanted a website you coded it or had it coded for you.

"When I was your age we had to walk buck naked through forty miles of snow... I worked in the coal mines twenty two hours a day for just half a cent... and I had to sell me internal organs just to pay the rent." ~ Weird Al

I see your point, Joe.

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mikeal

11 years ago

Joe Russell

You make some very good points.. Yes why should it have to be harder if it can be made easier. There are loads of things that I had to do the hard way. Take research for instance... I keep telling my son that he is not going to sit on a laptop all day playing computer games. He feels hard done to and looks at me like I have some kind of mission to ruin his day.

He then plucked up the courage to say "Dad, did you not play on your laptop for hours during the holidays" I laughed and said "laptop"! he said yes, i said son, I never had a laptop, no one did!

And If I did, I doubt I would have been playing computer games on it. it was the library if I wanted to know anything and,.... I had to catch the bus!

The point is, should he now be made to catch the bus or walk to the library just because I did?
I would say not. Having a laptop won't make him successful.

What he needs is guidance. He will still need to work hard whatever tools are available if he wants to succeed.

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gjabiz

11 years ago

Originally Posted by mikeal

Hi Warriors,

Is there a way we could simplify the way in which newbies get started in online marketing.?

There is so much information out there and so many different options to take, it is no wonder that lots of people give up before they even get started.

The problem is:

there is a lack of a FOUNDATION to build on.

A newbie here, probably knows nothing or very little about marketing to begin with. AND what I've seen for over 2 decades is, there is little to NO knowledge or understanding about Planning.

For your life. For your business. For much of anything.

Planning isn't taught in schools, although it should be.

Entrepreneurial types either jump in and DO IT, learn or fail as they go, or they think things through (more rare but probably more successful).

Also, success is anecdotal, which is why there are so many different Warrior opinions on HOW to do it.

There is NO one size fits all, just cause he or she did it, you may or may not be able to duplicate their success.

It is my opinion a noob has to learn how to plan, how to set goals, how to get organized and how to learn how to solve problems in the direction of their goals, which most don't know how to do.

Get a Foundation. Build a Framework. And a FOCUS.

But, most won't do it, won't take the time and therefore subject themselves to distraction, shiny objects, gurus of the day, WSO fever and end up spinning their wheels or building on the shifting sands of google or a platform out of their control.

Learn how to lay a solid foundation BEFORE you build your straw house, and don't forget the little piggy who built out of brick, he survived the winds of change.

gjabiz

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mikeal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by gjabiz

The problem is:

there is a lack of a FOUNDATION to build on.

A newbie here, probably knows nothing or very little about marketing to begin with. AND what I've seen for over 2 decades is, there is little to NO knowledge or understanding about Planning.

For your life. For your business. For much of anything.

Planning isn't taught in schools, although it should be.

Entrepreneurial types either jump in and DO IT, learn or fail as they go, or they think things through (more rare but probably more successful).

Also, success is anecdotal, which is why there are so many different Warrior opinions on HOW to do it.

There is NO one size fits all, just cause he or she did it, you may or may not be able to duplicate their success.

It is my opinion a noob has to learn how to plan, how to set goals, how to get organized and how to learn how to solve problems in the direction of their goals, which most don't know how to do.

Get a Foundation. Build a Framework. And a FOCUS.

But, most won't do it, won't take the time and therefore subject themselves to distraction, shiny objects, gurus of the day, WSO fever and end up spinning their wheels or building on the shifting sands of google or a platform out of their control.

Learn how to lay a solid foundation BEFORE you build your straw house, and don't forget the little piggy who built out of brick, he survived the winds of change.

gjabiz

That is well said!

This is the building blocks that newbies need. There is much trash out there which serves to distract the impressionable newbie. "Fail to plan and you plan to fail" (that's not mine by the way) I picked that up on the way. This planning you mention is a lesson for life not just for business. It is this preparation that would help the newbie stay on a path that takes them closer to there goals.

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travlinguy

11 years ago

Get rid of the myths and get down to reality. Most newbies buy into some silly formula (translated: business model) that doesn't work. I cringe when I still see posts asking about article spinners. There's no place in marketing for stuff like that.

Another thing is mindset. I'm not talking about a winning attitude so much, though that is important. What I do mean is the approach where a would-be marketer says, how can I do as little as possible and get the most money from it? They follow that by offering cheesy, outdated PLR crap as a reward for subscribing to their list. Then comes the spun articles and spammed backlinks and all the other nonsense.

People might make a few bucks doing this but trust me, it's not a long term business strategy. The way to success is simple: Find a product that people want and need and that they can afford and give it to them. There's no need to spend days or weeks on keyword research. That stuff is dead. In case you haven't heard, traditional SEO is dead. There are far better ways to get traffic and those methods worked on day one of Internet marketing and will continue to work. The basis of that method is providing value to your visitors in the way of excellent content. People will return over and over if you're giving them what they want. They'll also buy your stuff.

Another major myth that newbies buy into is the never ending nonsense about duplicate content. I've given up commenting on threads that are supposedly about content curation and syndication because they almost always lead to a mistaken discussion about duplicate content.

Guess what? Every authority site online publishes and republishes the same stuff (according to their respective markets) over and over and never even think about duplicate content. Another thing. For some, content curation has become a synonym for scraping (translated, stealing in many cases). Curation and syndication are "permission based" practices.

To sum it all up, the best thing newbies could ever dream to do is to get the REAL scoop on how to run an Internet business and forget all the one dimensional, absolutely false and most often downright stupid stuff that will do nothing more than waste their time and leave them frustrated and dead ass broke.

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ceenote100

11 years ago

I don't think it's possible to simplify the process because there are so many marketers promoting the most simple way to get started.

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TomVa

11 years ago

Oh man this is one of the greatest post I have seen in a very long time here. Thanks OP for asking this question. Keep it coming folks.. Lets read more.....

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KenW3

11 years ago

@Nightengale, Michelle, Thank you very much for your post above. I've told people much the same thing online and off for years. Companies sell products and services, and everything else is in support of that process. Research and development, need assessment, customer support, every employee works to create and enable sales.

The only way to make money is sell your own products and services or help others sell theirs. There's been thread after thread here on the best ways to make money. It's all marketing, advertising, sales, promotion of products and services. Responses about ways to make money, such as affiliate sites, blogging, copy-writing, AdSense and other monetization methods, etc, are all marketing and promotion, which are only profitable when they help businesses selling products or services.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

My two best recommendations for phenomenal IM training programs are Ali Brown's Elevate program (ElevateBizTraining.com) and Jeff Walker's Product Launch Formula (ProductLaunchFormula.com)

I entered Jeff Walker's sales funnel through your link above. The first video (after opting in) was absolutely brilliant, as the educational video follows the precise technique the instruction recommends. It was structured as the perfect example for the first part of the process being taught.

A guy who has done launches with a half billion in sales is worth serious study. I've been online with a monthly paid service continuously since signing up for Q-Link in 1986, started selling online a few years later, and I'm wondering why I didn't know about this guy.

In doing research this morning, I found Jeff Walker just wrote a book (available on Amazon) named Launch. If you buy his book through his website, using the Amazon link on his thelaunchbook.com/amazon.html page, the free bonuses look amazing. Meantime, I'll be looking through his YouTube channel until my copy arrives

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Nightengale

11 years ago

You all have made some really great points.

Yes, Warriors need a foundation: the basics of how business works. They often don't have that and either don't know how to make a sale. Or they've somehow made a sale in spite of themselves but aren't able to duplicate it.

Too many people jump into some sort of online method without understanding what they're really doing.

Take CPA for instance: What are you really doing when you do CPA?

1. You're providing a service.
2. Service: you're driving traffic.
3. You're paid per lead, AFTER delivery.

While providing a service has it's benefits, I think it's a HORRIBLE long-term business strategy for several reasons:

1. You own nothing. You have no equity of any kind.

2. You're paid per lead, usually well after you've provided it. You don't even receive any sort of up front deposit, which any marketing consultant would get.

Contrast this with the last live course you paid for: you paid -- in advance -- for something that was delivered AFTER payment was received.

3. Offers can be switched out or cancelled entirely without notice. If you're promoting a good offer and making money, if it's cancelled, you've lost your golden egg.

4. You can be suspended or expelled from the CPA network for any infraction, real or imagined.

You own nothing and have no control over anything!

When you look at this business model, it's actually insulting.

It's good for some short-term cash, but it's a HORRIBLE long-term business model. And you're not likely to make any significant money.

But my point is: understand what you actually do in whatever method you choose. Make it your goal to build assets and equity. Keep an eye towards the long-term.

And yes, I know all about Jeff Walker. I own PLF, his Seed Launch Deep Dive course AND his book.

It's awesome stuff.

Highway55,

I'm glad my post helped you.

But see my point? The info is there! You just have to dig a bit to find it. While well-intentioned, the OP is just going in the wrong direction slightly.

I've been posting that for well over a year and only a fraction of newbies who need the info ever see it. So it's not a lack of simple info for newbies.

As always, it's a MARKETING problem: getting that info into as many hands as possible.

Michelle

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Zaflow 11 years ago

Great post michelle, what is the best long term model that will sustain itself and grow over time?
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mikeal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Nightengale

You all have made some really great points.

Yes, Warriors need a foundation: the basics of how business works. They often don't have that and either don't know how to make a sale. Or they've somehow made a sale in spite of themselves but aren't able to duplicate it.

Too many people jump into some sort of online method without understanding what they're really doing.

Take CPA for instance: What are you really doing when you do CPA?

1. You're providing a service.
2. Service: you're driving traffic.
3. You're paid per lead, AFTER delivery.

While providing a service has it's benefits, I think it's a HORRIBLE long-term business strategy for several reasons:

1. You own nothing. You have no equity of any kind.

2. You're paid per lead, usually well after you've provided it. You don't even receive any sort of up front deposit, which any marketing consultant would get.

Contrast this with the last live course you paid for: you paid -- in advance -- for something that was delivered AFTER payment was received.

3. Offers can be switched out or cancelled entirely without notice. If you're promoting a good offer and making money, if it's cancelled, you've lost your golden egg.

4. You can be suspended or expelled from the CPA network for any infraction, real or imagined.

You own nothing and have no control over anything!

When you look at this business model, it's actually insulting.

It's good for some short-term cash, but it's a HORRIBLE long-term business model. And you're not likely to make any significant money.

But my point is: understand what you actually do in whatever method you choose. Make it your goal to build assets and equity. Keep an eye towards the long-term.

And yes, I know all about Jeff Walker. I own PLF, his Seed Launch Deep Dive course AND his book.

It's awesome stuff.

Highway55,

I'm glad my post helped you.

But see my point? The info is there! You just have to dig a bit to find it. While well-intentioned, the OP is just going in the wrong direction slightly.

I've been posting that for well over a year and only a fraction of newbies who need the info ever see it. So it's not a lack of simple info for newbies.

As always, it's a MARKETING problem: getting that info into as many hands as possible.

Michelle

Thanks for the post Michelle.

Building an equity is a good end goal and yes when we get to the "end " we would like to have something that we have built or nurtured over time. I'm not so sure that the CPA model is so bad though because over time you are perfecting your skill of: 1) Being able to drive traffic at will 2) Finding good converting offers 3) scaling up

Traffic won't run out so if you can do those things well, you will always have a commodity which is definitely a salable asset.

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Nightengale 11 years ago

Certainly providing a service (like CPA) is worthwhile. Nothing wrong with it, especially if it helps build your skills.

But I still think it's a bad long-term business model for the reasons I mentioned. Get started with CPA if you like. But have a goal to move on to something else long-term.

Zaflow,

There's no one "best" business model. The models I mentioned (product or service) have existed as long as commerce has existed.

I think you're really asking about what's a good, long-term niche. There are good niches all around you. What you choose will depend on your interests, skills and resources.

Hope that helps!

Michelle
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carcin0genic

11 years ago

To answer the most recent question... a blog is your best long term asset.

As far as how to make it easier for newbies there isn't much else to do.. .all the work is done for them they just have to duplicate what they see working.

I guess we could eradicate all the subpar and garbage products that serve nobody except the wallet of the creator but that will never happen.

In that same type of thinking I would also have to say we need to start educating newbies and some veterans alike that this industry is about helping and leaning on each other to succeed, not being a shark in the waters

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TomVa

11 years ago

Originally Posted by carcin0genic

To answer the most recent question... a blog is your best long term asset.

As far as how to make it easier for newbies there isn't much else to do.. .all the work is done for them they just have to duplicate what they see working.

I guess we could eradicate all the subpar and garbage products that serve nobody except the wallet of the creator but that will never happen.

In that same type of thinking I would also have to say we need to start educating newbies and some veterans alike that this industry is about helping and leaning on each other to succeed, not being a shark in the waters

Yes and I hope to start doing something just like you are saying.

Thanks

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