Is the Warrior Forum (WSO) gonna stay an open marketplace?

Very good point Caleb..personally I think not keeping the Warrior Forum an open marketplace would be a death sentence. Simply because someone else will come along and be competition..that's how it always works

I mean if WF only started using their own payment platform for WSO's then people are going to leave this forum and look for one that does allow all payment platforms. You simply can't force someone's hand like that, regardless of how big you are or how much money you have.

So if the WF wants to thrive now and in the future it cannot become a proprietary marketplace..it must stay open to have continued success and any other thinking besides that is just pure arrogance..IMO

P.S. I do think having Warrior Payments can be a great thing for healthy competition, especially considering they have a deal of the day. I think it's sparking the interest of a lot of marketers and making them curious, so just let people be naturally drawn to it instead of stuffing it down their throats..i think it has a BIG potential to be GREAT

Let's face it. Most people who launch WSO's make little (to very little) money from them. It would be only the top 5% or so that go on to make a lot of sales.

My point in saying this is that the WF stands to lose a lot more money by not allowing other platforms to launch in this forum. Yes, new forum users will all use Warrior Payments (because they know no better) however as noted above, they are the people who will bring in very few sales (if any) and thus make the Warrior Forum very little money in payment fees. Because they make very little from their offers they are also the people who cannot afford to bump their WSO's very regularly.

So the question is this. Do you want to attract the newbies who are happy to just go along with things and use Warrior Payments. The people who will (in majority of cases) sell very few products and very rarely pay to bump their offers. Or would you rather attract the power sellers who may not want to use Warrior Payments BUT they will drive a ton of traffic over to the Warrior Forum every time they do a big launch... and they are the type of people who can afford to bump their offers over and over again.

To give you an idea, I have spent over $40,000 bumping my WSO's just the last few years. That is just one user. How many sales would it take from every day Joe's to get that same amount of money in fees through Warrior Payments?

Well actually, I have the answer. If Warrior Payments take a 2% fee then to earn that same $40,000, they would need to process over $2,000,000 worth of sales.

Wow!

So which sellers do you really want to attract?

Yes.

Alaister, the Forum Administrator, has already specified (in another thread, while answering the same question) that there are no plans to change that, or to exclude other methods/processes/systems of people listing WSO's here.

Good to see you posting again, Caleb.

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This ...

In my view W+ is a much better service because of upgrades created after competition from JVZoo began.

JVZoo just added one of the best coupon systems I have seen, if not the best. The "arms race" from competition keeps making the services better and better.

In the long run the forum may rue the day if it disallowed WSOs using other services, instead of encouraging other services to funnel traffic to the forum.

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Not really as there have been a few on the topic, especially the changes, but then you would know that if you did a quick search....

PS. These whiny threads don't help anybody. The new owners have been quite transparent and willing to take the recommendations of members into consideration...

I wouldn't worry about that, that's not going to happen.

They would lose a lot of money if they started bannig other payment processors from being used, and since they want to profit as much as possible as any company does, they won't do that..

Well, I can tell you that it is always a bad idea to put all your eggs in one basket. The affiliate platforms ... all of them ... bring traffic by the thousands to the WSO forum. So far, Warrior Payments is so undeveloped that it's not very useful at this point. Will it ever get up to speed. Time will tell.

But you aren't forced to use it if you don't want to. I mean, right now there's a secret link to launch the old way and use any platform you want, but that will disappear and the only choice "on the Warrior Forum" will be Warrior Payments.

Which makes JVZoo and a self hosted sales page look much more appealing to me. It has all the features I want and runs smoothly and, most importantly of all to me, it has delayed payments. No delayed payments is a deal breaker, but it's only one of many.

You do have choices and don't ever let anyone tell you that you don't.

Just throwing this out there: https://www.zaxaa.com/features

Not only do they not email your customers, they have all the bells and whistles (and then some), vendors can pay a flat monthly or yearly payment and there's no additional fees per transaction other than PayPal (or they have a free option which involves taking a %).

I've started to see some vendors moving in their direction. I was with them in beta running some offers.
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Warrior Payments right now is bringing a knife to a gunfight. The platform is no where close to being even remotely comparable to W+ or JVZoo but with the resources they have at their disposal, they should be able to get there rather quickly.

Personally, I rather have a platform that tells my customers about other products versus a platform that emails my buyers 3 days later and harrases them to leave a "detailed review" of my product and give me a rating...

Talk about leaving the door wide open and inviting problems for the vendor (and affiliates as well).

Not sure how the rumor got started that WSO sellers were going to be REQUIRED to use Warrior Payments. That is simply not factual.

If it's not fact, it's not worth worrying about.

I don't hate the new Warrior Payments, JVZ or W+.

It comes down to the fact that they're market places from which to draw affiliates. I'd use all 3 at the same time on every product if I could.

I applaud the WF for creating Warrior Payments. Yes, there are still a lot of features that are lacking, and features that we all want to see, but Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm pretty sure as they work out the bugs and add/tweak features then it's going to become a competitive sales platform just like WSO Pro & JVZoo.

That being said, the one thing that disturbs me is that when you go to create a WSO and you click the big red "Create WSO" button, you are not give any other option but Warrior Payments. They have said that you can use any payment processor you wish, yet in order to do so you have to go and hunt down a link that is buried in a thread somewhere. That's not exactly transparent, is it?

The message that sends to me is yes they allow other payment processors, but they aren't going to make it easy for you to use them. And as others have stated, if you are new to this you won't know any better and you will basically be forced into using Warrior Payments. I can understand that thinking to a degree. They hope you create a WSO with WP and like it so much you will continue to use it, which of course will happen because you don't know you have other options.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would be far more at ease if after you clicked the "Create WSO" button, you were given a drop down menu of accepted payment processors that you could choose. Hey, I've got no problem at all with Warrior Payments being the first one on the list, but please list the others as well!

WF management has said we have a choice. Well then OPENLY give us that choice please! Don't make the link hard to find!

The message I'm getting from the current setup is that while they continue to develop and add features to Warrior Payments we have a choice of payment processor (if you can find that link), but as soon as WP is fully developed there will be no other choice.

We all know that it's their business and they can do what they like with it, and if we don't like it we don't have to list WSOs, but I also think that they should place a lot of weight on what their members want.

Personally, I'm just going to lay back in my easy chair and watch this one play out!

I almost stayed away from this thread altogether because I'm a capitalist and I believe in individual rights and a free market which means I generally don't care what people do with their business if it's theirs, but I see a few of my friends here so I joined the convo.

Before I chime in I already know that my stand may be an unpopular one, but I think marketplace disruption in any form always provides an opportunity for those who can weather the storm and figure out a new way.

While I understand the views of both sides... the side that states that the Warrior forum has been built on the backs and hard work of many successful and even not to successful warriors, and that this change in payment structure will affect some or many adversely. (which I cannot argue with)

And the side who thinks that it's this site belongs to Freelancer now, it's their show, and they can do what they want with it (A fact I also agree with.)

I have to say from my position I don't think that the warrior forum is going anywhere soon, by that I mean...I don't see this becoming a baron wasteland where no one wants to learn marketing... at least not in the next year or so...so why not weather the storm too?

If we ( more experienced marketers) are actually here to be fiduciaries to the newer marketers who are still signing up to the warrior forum on a daily basis; than a mass exodus of marketers who are angry with the payment system seems like an opportunity for the people who stick around.

I my opinion (<--only my opinion) less people competing for mind-share in a competitive market like IM in the very place that attracts the most people looking for IM advice seems like a good event to me.

I understand that the network of affiliates you could tap into to get behind your offers might be shrinking, but the truth is I agree with WillR most WSO's probably aren't bringing in a ton of cash.

Besides, if you haven't established working relationships with a network of your peers and colleagues in the time Warrior Forum was the land of milk and honey-- then shame on you more not thinking like a business owner.

Historically, businesses always change...

Google removing authorship images from the organic listings for people not connected to you? Whattheapp testing advertising models after being adamant about not allowing ads? Facebook putting the crackdown on scraping after allowing it for so long even if it was against the terms of service all along?

Marketing is a art form of mixing short term and long-term strategies in iteration and pivoting.

Get in early, do your thing, ride the wave and MTFO when it stops working for you...It is what it is.

I also know that this sucks for our friends at JVzoo and Warriorplus I the E. Brain Rose is one of the most awesome dudes around, but it also gives them opportunity to do something awesome as well.

I promise you they've built their network of friends and colleagues, It will be a bump in the road...but these they don't seem to be pushing the panic button just pivoting.

IMHO business isn't a game of fair. Do subscribers tell you how to run your list, do your clients tell you what to charge?

Or do you analyze the data, test methodically with a large segment then keep the types of customers you want from the crowd and drop the rest.

If people unsubscribe, do you shut down shop, or do you just get more subscribers?

Either way...Warrior Forum has always done what what in the best interest of warrior forum (as it should) regardless of ownership and there have always been complaints...yet it's still here...and thing have always seemed to workout.

My advice...leave this alone...just a bunch of wasted energy that won't change anything...help them work out their system or don't.

Better advice go help a N00B they need you more then ever right now...and it even if the admins don't appreciate your opinion a N00B will .

I'm going to call this right now.

The short answer is right now yes, but in the future, from the actions both subtly and overtly taken thus far by the new owners...sadly no it will not remain that way if they are able to have their way.

I truly hope I'm wrong, but the writing is on the wall and it tells a different story than what is being preached but not practiced.

Sad to say, but there is a good amount of false transparency going on. Hell, I just got a pm from the powers that be regarding just that, transparency. It makes me a bit sad to be completely honest.

For the short run, I'd think it will stay open.

While they introduced their own system, you don't close off channels of income.

It would pretty much ruin their business model not to stay open, I don't think it would be a sound decision.

The LOVE of money is the ROOT of all evil....

Thats the truth, it's the love of money, greed, that will take this forum down if it goes down.

When you become a publicly traded company, no one is ever satisfied with making great money, they always want to make more, and more and more, and are forced to do whatever it takes to make more to please those who are invested.

It is a ruthless vicious cycle that ultimately causes companies to bring on their own demise by making very unpopular decisions, and by making unethical financial moves all in the name of making more money this quarter than last quarter, or more money this year than last year.

I personally have hardly logged in to this site at all since the new takeover, I saw the quality of posts and other things go down very quickly, the whole forum seems much more deluted and watered down than before.

I also believe that the forum, being owned by a corporation, is kinda ironic, considering the fact that most internet marketers are trying or have broken free from that kind of slavery and dictatorship so they could be their own boss. Now they are once again, being limited, influenced and controlled to a degree by a corporation if they choose to stay and do business on this platform.

Just my observations........... a little straight to the point but nevertheless, true.

If I owned this forum, and was a corporation, and wanted to make lots of money, I sure as hell would not let those people in high places pressure me to make decisions that they have no clue about. Which is normally what happens in these types of scenarios. It's the bean counters that just look at the numbers, and do not really understand the mechanics or the dynamics of what really makes a forum like this profitable.

Oops, I went there.....

Hi Caleb:
Well, you are a smart guy. I think you have your answer. Question for you. Do you think we need to get off pay pal? They are not good for micro pay.

Really nothing for us to argue about.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Things around here are changing. When that happens there will be people who like it and people who don't like it.

You do seem to always have a problem with people who don't like the change though. But again, everyone is entitled to their opinion and if people don't like things, they have just as much right to say so as those who do.

I take it you are still running the helpdesk (not sure if you get paid for that or not?) but that is always going to somewhat taint your opinion of things.

I've made the mistake of arguing with strangers on the internet. For the right crowd, they know what I mean.

Bowing out from the 3 on one going on here Enjoy your willful blindness everyone.

I do think a link should be added at the bottom of the payments page that takes you to the old method. Then later, they can always remove the link when they ban other payment methods.

-g

Mike,

The argument is over. You are only arguing with yourself.

We've had our opinions and those who matter have seen them.

Back to making money everyone!

there is always competition in every field and people will choose only those platforms where they feel secure and convenient.
Thanx for your bold question.

I really hope it does. That's all I can say. I think the people who run the forum understand that if they change the open marketplace to a paid one then they would probably lose a bunch of followers.

what if,

the warriorforum opened up another section not called WSO and let people post their products there using their own payment systems & programs? I guess it wouldn't be a special offer anymore, but then again are they ever really?

thoughts?

Mike,

No offense but since you've joined this forum you have run one WSO your stats show (and that was way back in May 2011)

I've run 10+ (still have several running right now) and Suzanne has run many as well.

So I think the opinions of those who are actively using the WSO forum to sell might be worth listening to over those people who never even use it, right?

Well if I wanted to run a profitable company, that's what I would do. No point listening to those who don't spend any money posting in the WSO forum because they are not making you any money.

So let's get feedback from sellers who are actually actively using the WSO forum. That's way more important than all this useless arguing from you for arguments sake.

It never really has been a completely "open" marketplace. Way back
in the early days - yes I remember the Unisol Forum - it was simply
a discussion group.

Then we moved to the Snitz platform and it was a moderated discussion.
Yes, every post was reviewed by a moderator before it was posted. That
made for some disjointed discussions!

The first marketplace as such was Host4Profit and that was a take it or
leave it choice. ;-)

The first WSO threads were seen as a privilege not a right. Your offer
had to be truly special and something that would help your fellow Warriors.

Here's me getting all nostalgic... back to my point...

Every one of those policies and changes were initiated by Allen. It was his
forum... his house, his rules. Every time there was a change there would
be people who supported it and people who dissented. You can't please all
of the warriors all of the time!

So, now the forum is under new ownership and management. The new guys
are looking to recover their $3m plus investment. No matter how much
any of us had paid for a website... we'd be looking to generate a good ROI
to recover our investment and to begin to make a profit. It's business.

Matt and Alaister will make mistakes. If you don't take risks you don't grow.

It's certainly not in their best interests to alienate the people who generate
income or profit. And it's not in their interests to facilitate competitor's profit
either.

In my humble opinion the first signs are that these guys are interested in
making the forum a better place for the members and users and a more
profitable place for them. It's symbiotic relationship that requires balance
and finesse. It's like learning to fly an aeroplane... you have to learn to
make subtle and gradual changes to maintain your airspeed and altitude,
big changes create instability!

So, I'm sitting back, waiting, observing and thinking about how I can
continue to enjoy being a member of this community and how i can adapt
to the changes are taking place.

John

Good Post.. i think warrior marketplace is the best one with cheap payment...

Huh?

-g