What if "Positive Thinking" is completely wrong?

If there is no negative thinking, how do you know what is positive and what is not? There always has to be some basis for comparison.
But having more positive than negative is certainly a good thing.

I completely agree with you. The positive thinking that is being promoted now adays is nothing but a quick-fix. we're really kidding ourselves by forcing ourselves to be positive all the time.

I am not saying that people should go into the valley of despair, all I am saying is that they should be practical and face the reality. They should try to cure the root of the problem instead of being positive and thinking that everything will be alright.

They need to develop their character instead of just an attitude. If their values and character is strong, then they'll naturally be satisfied and they'll know how to deal with things instead of forcing themselves to be happy and positive,.

Just trying to be positive on the outside all the time is nothing but BS. You have to get rid of your inner fears and apprehensions if you really want to become positive, confident and fearless from deep down. That is what really matters. So you have to let the negative inside of you to surface so that you can take steps to get rid of them.

Good post.

Positive thinking as some sort of goal runs contrary to the LAW of attraction. If you wish to possess it, you have it all wrong.

I recently saw a good grab from the movie Snowpiercer...

Watch Your Thoughts, They Become your Words; Watch Your Words, They Become your Actions Watch your actions they become your habits, watch your habits they become your character, watch your character it becomes your destiny.

I think it's more complicated than just thinking positive. The subconscious mind is a vast reservoir of cr*p

When it comes down to it, if you really want to change your life, the crux is decisions. Make different decisions and all the negative thoughts in the world wont stop you from reaping the results of those decisions

look .. this can easily go off the raile ..

there is value in being in a state where you tend to think and feel more positive ,,

but when positive thinking become naive recklessness yeah it is bad ..

look took adult beverages a night can be part of a healthy lifestyle..3 or more and you have a problem

positive thinking the keeps you in positive mental state fine..

positive thinking that feels to notice and fix proplems .. and leads to a state of denial bad ..

My take on this is the fact that you address a negative situation with a positive attitude, knowing you can ultimately solve it. The negative does not derail you for long. You have confidence that you can solve it and keep going with your original plan, even if that takes longer than planned.

A leader will listen to a problem, acknowledge it, find out how it can be solved, and do it.

A positive, confident attitude doesn't mean you ignore or pretend that the negative is not there. That doesn't help anybody involved.

A positive, confident individual can handle most any obstacle. A negative, insecure individual will let almost any obstacle beat them.

I like to think this forum has more of the positive, confident people as members. Based on most of the comments in the threads I read, I think that is the case.

This is why I like this forum. Our mindset is definitely what determines the core of our decisions on a daily basis.

I've read about something very similar except the person used a different analogy: when your computer is infected with a virus, the virus gets in the way of what you want to do with the computer until you get rid of the virus. In this case the computer is your brain, the virus is negative thoughts/beliefs in your subconscious, and the stuff you want to do on the computer is all the positive thinking/feeling tools at your disposal (like affirmations, visualization, etc).

Which might be why many people who consume personal development material are getting small or sporadic results at best. The positive stuff you're uploading just joins the negative stuff already there, slowing down or halting any progress you try to make...unless maybe you do it long and often enough to somehow override the negativity eventually, but it seems a lot of people don't have the patience (or the stamina) for it.

It's not BS.

The way it's explained here is sometimes bs but

Legendary Cus Damatio used it on Mike Tyson constantly.

Here's my take on this. Trying to control your thoughts or judge your thoughts is not helpful. To get where you want to go, first - decide what you want, second - listen to your thoughts.. then if anything "negative" comes up (ie something that tells you why you CAN'T do what you want), that is simply an opportunity to:

#1. Challenge that belief (Is this really true? How do I know it's absolutely true?)
#2. Come up with a solution/workaround if it is a valid problem.

"Negative" thinking is simply thinking of problems and then letting them make you feel bad and become unmotivated instead of finding solutions to keep moving forward. Turn that around by always finding a solution to whatever problem pops into your mind.

No matter what you're trying to do, pretending it will be easy and everything will be perfect, and ignoring potential roadblocks isn't going to help you get past those roadblocks.

I read through the thread and I agree with pretty much everyone. Positive thinking has recently been a getaway by many people.

I also believe that people should have a balance between negative and positive thinking.

I don't think it is completely wrong. It can be wrong but not totally. People will use and abuse it no matter what. Some will use it as an excuse or whatever. But whichever way, I still believe Positive thinking can still work, maybe not for you but for somebody else.

I don't think its wrong but I cant say its right too. I guess as long as you dont use it as an excuse to make mistakes, its okay. and also a balance between positive and negative is good too.

Yes, you need to abandon negative thinking first to think positively. For example by redirecting your mind and think of something that is better. If f someone said something horrible to you in an email or in a comment, you don't keep thinking of it all day but think of how many people you have helped doing your business, you think of your followers who like what you do. What you focus on expands.

Exactly, you have to stop feeding the negative thinking and let the momentum of it peter out and subside. It will still be there but you can't fight it - or you just add to it.

If you verbally review your goals and affirmations morning, noon and night, and try to think of them as much as possible in between.... your thinking will definitely be more positive after 90 days. There is no doubt.

I don't find the need to stop the negativity, I think its more into moderating it. You have to have some negativity to be able to truly sense the positivity.

Really interesting perspective!
I would agree.. when you hear "positive thinking", it's something you're attempting to do.
I struggled with this for a while.
Then you get to a point where you stop "trying", and just DO it. Takes some of the energy out of forcing it!

Interesting post.

( my opinion)

I feel positive or negative is very subjective. Here's how

Lets say that you have some value work to completed right away, then

a) if you are here in this forum for some kick of positive thought

b) Read your favourite personal development stuff, blog or participate in forum OR

c) do meditation to remove negative thoughts ...

Don't you agree that all above 3 can be termed as negative by itself ? though we love to think it to be positive

I'm victim of scenario 1

But, I feel we trying to be perfect at thought level is insane, it can disturb us. Let the mind do it's part of drooling, gossiping and negative foreplay. If you do some good work which satisfies you ... then go have a beer with friends and celebrate ...

Serenity too is subjective, we need to tailor make it our behaviors ...

Hi Rbarnhart,

I commend you for arriving at this logical point. Your analogy was very clear and simple. If it is agreeable with you I would like to use your quote as a basis, and deviate in a different direction.

The question "What would that be like?" Implies that 'we don't know what it's like' and stimulates speculation. I feel this takes us in a wrong direction. I suggest the following question.

[Rbarnhart1]: ... Instead, you have to get rid of the negative thinking,

How do you do that?

We have negated positive thinking as a means of psychological change. What does that mean? That means, in response to observing inharmonious or dangerous behaviour in ourselves we don't create the conception of 'what we want to be'. To create the positive is a form of escape. We create the ideal and pursue that, and through doing so we neglect our problems. When we cease to create the ideal we exist in state in which we left with our problems. Without any ideal to distract us we are left to observe the operation of our problems. That very act of observation is the factor responsible for the learning of our problematic behaviour and the reconditioning of the brain to free itself of it.

So, How do you get rid of "negative" thinking?
You cease to escape it, and through so doing naturally come upon a perception of it. The learning that comes as a result of that perception, distils the water.

Perception is the act of psychological purification.

You say the real answer is to "Get Rid of Negativity" instead of focusing on "Positive Thinking" but you don't explain how one can "get rid of negative thinking". If the answer isn't through "Positive thinking" than what other alternative do you suggest people do that provides better results ? Here's how I do it, I focus on a good habits for 30 days such as exercising, eating better, building a better business and other positive things, in turn I live a better life.

Everything we experience in life has either a 'positive' or a 'negative' meaning. Some person may look at something and see a glass half empty. Others may look at the same thing and 'jump' for joy because they saw this as a glass half 'full'.

Life is happening and we are seeing or perceiving it one way or another.

The ONLY thing that matters is what meaning we give something.

Keep pouring, it'll clean up.

Joe Mobley

Thanks for posting this rbarnhart1. This type of self-motivation is one of my favorite topics.

Not to put too fine a point on it but 'positive thinking', the like of which was popularized by Norman Vincent Peale, has over time developed into a terrible hoax. This was brought to light in popular books such as "SHAM" by Steve Salerno and in "Brightsided" by Barbara Ehrenreich. In fact the current popularity of obligatory positivity and cheer as demanded in corporate America appears to be largely responsible for the hubris that caused poor decision making that resulted in the financial crisis of 1980's.

Before it's collapse (the largest bankruptcy in American history) a Lehman Brothers trader had tried to point out to his boss his worry about the exposure risk that the company had acquired in the real estate sub-prime market. The employee's comments were seen as too negative and he was fired. This sort of thinking was going on in lots of other competing financial organizations and it could of brought down the entire world economy if it weren't for emergency governmental intervention.

Positive thinking is tremendously difficult to maintain for long periods. That is probably due to the fact that humans naturally have a negativity bias. This can be illustrated by our sensitivity to the taste of that which is sweet and that which is bitter. Our taste buds have a detection factor for sweetness that is around one part in two hundred but for bitter it jumps to one part in two million. We needed this because toxic elements are often bitter tasting.

'Thinking positive' is very different from 'positive thinking'.

Both of these statements together present an interesting dichotomy. Like, which comes first... the chicken or the egg?

Due to my training as a visual artist I prefer to look at things through visual modeling. So, the answer is the question there is no answer. There never could be because thinking that's shaped like this is a perfect example of what I like to call 'circular thinking'.

There is no escape from a hamster-wheel like that and it creates a lot of frustration in the one doing the thinking. Our head brain is said to use up to one third of all of our body's electrical energy which explains why circular thinking is so exhausting.

What I see has to happen is a change in the 'shape' of the thinking itself. It must go from circular to 'reciprocal'. (Circular describes a wheel whereas reciprocal describes a mobius strip.)

This approach is way more effective than just trying to choose different thoughts. That's because, just as your coffee cup can't refill itself, the head brain's thinking has a hard time fixing itself.

Authentic change in the system of thinking like this can only be triggered by an active agent that is external to the head brain yet still inside the person. It must change from "positive thinking", which is a ton of work to maintain, to "thinking positive" which is the result of a mindset that is naturally aware of how things are and grateful that it has another opportunity to make things better. (A young child thinks like this.)

So, how exactly can a change like this happen? Simple. We need to use another brain. Fortunately we have one and it's in our gut.

Of course I'm referring to the finding that there are 100 million neurons that are hidden in the linings of our digestive tract and that this one weird structure, which is now known in scientific terms as the "enteric nervous system", is a brain that's able to operate by itself without instructions from topside.

As I see it there appears to be a reciprocal relationship between these two different brains and that relationship, when it's at its optimum, is best modeled
as a mobius strip where two things seem to merge into one. The head brain thinks but doesn't feel. It's into analyzing things. The gut brain feels but doesn't think. It's an action-taker.

As stated the gut brain's main attribute is, not one of thinking, but one that is extremely sensitive to feeling. One thing that it feels is an energetic drive we call our persistence. A persistent nature causes a person to positively move ahead despite difficulties. The gut feels this and transfers this energy via the vegas nerve to the head brain. There it forces a change in the thinking from the negative: "I can't do this, it's too tough" to the positive: "I'll give it another try".

So, have you ever experienced a something like this? If so you've had a transformation, although temporary, in the shape of your thinking. (I know how to make it more permanent and that's the reason I'm writing a book about it.)

Well, now you're just blatantly tossing out the, "act as if" rule that is a staple of personal development. Used by millions of people successfully around the world (not everyone). It can work to a point. As long as there are not significant blocks in the way.

But I agree completely with the dirty water analogy. It is all about changing the underlying programming or blocks that are getting in the way. Then where you are coming from is a completely different and wonderful place. You start out on the right foot. Then being able to learn successful skills in life actually works for you.

Answering the single greatest question in psychology and personal development

- exactly how to change.

Actual real lasting change has been maddeningly elusive. Developing a reproducible effective system that anyone could use to produce change at will is beyond comprehension. What it actually takes to change has been unknown to the world even with the threat of death. Having recently reviewed a study on change involving heart patients who would die unless they changed their diet or exercise, it was found that the success rate of change with the threat of death was only one in seven. That is to say that only one in seven people when faced with death as a real consequence were able to change their habits and be able to live. The other six died having not been able to change. Real change has been practically impossible - until now.

Having spent twenty-five years developing the system to achieving core level change it has finally been developed - Gutap. The exact process is spelled out step by step below in an easy to understand way in order to provide clarity and definition.



A systematized conscious reproducible method for change that works every single time

The deepest core beliefs have been the most difficult thing to change in ourselves and in others. It is because of the lack of a reproducible system for change that many people firmly believe that people can't really change at all.

The basis of this process for change is that beliefs are formed in emotion. It is through feeling emotion along with one's determining of how things are that beliefs are formed. The stronger the emotion the deeper, more powerful, longer lasting the core belief becomes. In order to change a deep core belief the emotion it was formed in has to be felt again just as it was originally in order to begin the process of change.

Our feelings are the most powerful gate to permanently changing our thoughts (our beliefs). Our feelings are the doorway to being able to change at the deepest level. You must feel the feeling fully as powerful and as painfully as it is to then open the doorway to have the chance to access change. Once you are feeling the feeling as fully as it truly is then you ask what it is that it really wants you to know, to listen for anything that is the truth. Any negative answer is not the truth. Stay feeling the negative feeling and relaxed. Listen only for the positive answer while feeling the negative feeling. When it comes you will be able to recognize the truth of it by beginning to see the previous negative feeling begin to change when you connect that positive answer you just received into the negative feeling to flow the feeling of the positive answer into the negative feeling to change it. The act of feeling the negative emotion also strengthens us to be able to be emotionally strong enough to find the answer in spite of the pain and also strong enough to hold the connection between the positive and negative to allow the time for the positive feeling to flow into the negative feeling.

Here are the three steps to Gutap again in a nutshell:
1) Feel the feeling
2) Find the answer
3) Let the feeling of the answer flow in

Here are the three steps to Gutap again with slightly more description:
1) Feel the feeling of our limiting belief.
2) Find what the positive answer is that it actually wants us to know.
3) Connect the feeling of what it wants us to know and let the feeling of that answer flow into our limiting belief to change it.

That is as simply as I can put it.


Connect the old and new feeling and let the new positive healthy answers flow into the negative feeling to change it.

Double check that the negative feeling is changing, and then completely changes.

Then there are over three hundred sublevels that involve dealing with every conceivable variation and failings. Obviously it can become extremely complex and almost impossible to follow through once you become triggered. This is just one reason it pays to get help to do this.



Is there anyone you have ever heard of that can back up a claim like this? I do it through explaining the process, completely and concisely, answering all your questions around personal development, offering client examples of achievement, while demonstrating exactly how this works for you.

1) Explain it
a. Connect it to other theories
b. Fill in the gaps
c. Explain why other theories don't always work

2) Show why it works
a. Built upon other things that do work

3) Demonstrate in a small example I call the Ice Cream Exercise

4) Verify it worked

This system was put together from over twenty-five separate and distinct sources. Some of the sources don't realize the others even exist. They are too busy promoting their own agenda. While others hate each other, fighting among themselves, constantly sabotaging their own development in a shared hatred instead of realizing how they each have a piece of the whole pie. I put it together and filled in several gaps after twenty five years of research and development.

Let the positive feelings of exactly what the negative belief is trying to teach you flow in to the feeling of the false belief to change it.

In today’s world, more and more people speak about the power of positive thinking. It is a concept that has a very high view of human nature and ability. Its advocates teach that the human mind has the power to turn wishes into reality through optimism. In other words The Power of positive thought refers to the power of creating thoughts, which create and focus energy into reality. To bring into creation a positive outcome, which you see as a benefit to yourself or others.
However if conflict exists in the subconscious then this has the habit of overriding the best intentions of positive thought. The subconscious is so literal to the point of exasperation and the conscious is quite the opposite, concocting thousands of excuses not to actor avoiding to act in a positive way
That’s life – That’s how it is – resolve the conflict preventing positive behaviour (easily said) and move on!
Brian

When you wake up in the morning, or from a long sleep, you naturally feel positive. Then as you go about your day, your more dominant thoughts start to kick in that you have been practicing for a long time.


When you try to rid yourself of negativity, you are still focused on negativity. You cant focus on positivity while getting rid of negativity. Because the focus is still on negativity.


When you start to focus more and more on positivity, the negativity starts to fall off and eventually be forgotten. It can be reactivated, but it is very very small. It still has a vibration, but it is very very little.


My college teacher once told me. The longer it has been since you thought of a thought, the harder it is to remember it again. The more time has passed, the harder it is to remember. The less time has passed since you thought of something, The easier it is to remember.


Water is different from mind.


You are like a tuner that receives radio waves. There are different stations of thinking and feeling. If you are feeling good and thinking positive, then you are in that vibration and station. If you are resonating with pure positivity, then that's what you are receiving.


Focus on the positive, become more positive, build a positive foundation. When negativity comes up, learn to generalize it and forget about the seriousness of it, don't let it create a strong hold or foundation, just let it go. Back away from it and hop on the positive.


If you have dirt in a container, then its going to stay in there. Our minds aren't like containers, you can change thought faster than you can change water. Its a webinar though, they need to have you switch to their idea.


Do what makes you happy.

Both is, for sure the best answer! Positive thinking about current and future events are key to setting yourself up for success. Reviewing and criticizing are important for past events, as that's how you learn and correct future actions!