77 replies
I did a bad job communicating what I meant in the last thread so it was unsurprisingly being misinterpreted. I will re-write when I get a moment!
#advice #coaches #doing what you love #gurus #life #spouted #terrible
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I agree with everything you so articulately posted. This should be required reading for anyone dreaming about starting an online business.
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  • Profile picture of the author wasa1
    I would say you hit the nail on the head when it comes to starting a business. Well said.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marked09
    Great Article Ken! as always you continue to inspire people in IM
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  • Profile picture of the author kk075
    Unfortunately, I completely disagree and I think the above advice is dangerous...especially the "It's not always a bad strategy to work your ass off for a few years doing something you don't like..."

    That is a bad strategy for any business, online or otherwise, because that means your only passion will be about money. Which goes against everything else you just said about building a business...the money can't be the primary goal.

    Whenever someone approaches me about an IM site, the first thing I ask them is, "What are you passionate about?" Then I ask, "Where do people spend money within that niche?" Finally, I close with, "What can you do unique that people within that niche will appreciate and tell their friends about?"

    It really is that simple; that's all the guidance you need to form a brand.

    But the problem here is that 99 out of 100 people reading your post are not making money online, they don't know where to start and their only focus is, "How do I make money?" So telling them to do something they dislike (like selling an eBook about being an Internet Superstar) is a fool's errand, because all they can do is copy the previous guy and hope for the best.

    So yes- do what you love. Build a brand around it and then give people a reason to appreciate you. Heck, Zappos sells men's shoes...how boring it that? But Hsieh had the passion and it's one of the world's biggest brands. He never would have got there if he didn't love what he was doing though, and you'll find this exact same story behind every major name on the Internet. Facebook, Amazon, Travelocity, Apple....every creator was doing what he loved and that's where the passion came from.

    So I'm sorry, but "do what you love" is awesome advice. It is simply incomplete advice since there's more to developing a brand and eventually monetizing, but it all starts with passion for the people within your segment.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

      Unfortunately, I completely disagree and I think the above advice is dangerous...especially the "It's not always a bad strategy to work your ass off for a few years doing something you don't like..."

      That is a bad strategy for any business, online or otherwise, because that means your only passion will be about money. Which goes against everything else you just said about building a business...the money can't be the primary goal.
      This is just NOT true at all. It is not just about making money for many people.

      You cannot somehow categorize what Passion is and what it SHOULD be for people.

      If you don't really like your Niche your in you can find Passion with people who do care about this Niche and need problems solved. And you can find extraordinary passion in helping these people with these problems.


      Also you can have Passion in setting up the business and running it and employing people.

      This is great passion and should not be discounted.

      Personally, I have to disagree and actually think your advice could be considered dangerous or at least very limiting to many entrepreneurs.

      People need to think outside the box and quite this insane assertion that you can only find happiness and fulfillment and be successful by pursuing a Niche that you have are bonkers about !




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  • Profile picture of the author slipsonic
    Great post. I've been lurking here for a while but I had to post because I agree %100 with what you're saying. What got me into IM was Pat Flynn's niche site duel. He's one of the ones that says go for your passion, that didnt really mesh for me though because my passion is building custom motorcycles. I dont really see how that would jive with IM, i guess i could do tutorials or start an affiliate parts store, but there's a couple of problems with those ideas.
    1. The motorcycle/hotrod industry is saturated with parts stores already and I could never compete.
    2, I know a lot of people that build bikes and I know for a fact they're not watching any tutorials about it, its just the way they are.

    I struggled with this for a while when I decided to build a niche site in the real estate market, which I have really no interest in, I just saw an opportunity to "fill a gap"
    But eventually, after working on my site 4 hours a day for about 6 months while working 40 hours a week at my 'day job' I realized that it doesn't have to be my passion.
    In fact my passion at this point is freedom from the 9-5. Freedom from having to be at work when the boss says and do what the boss says 40 hours/WK.
    Even if IM never made me more than $3000-4000 a month and I had to work 8 hours a day to get it, I would be OK with that because I would be free. If it was an especially nice spring day here in Montana and I wanted to take that day off and go put a line in the water or take a motorcycle ride, I could.
    I guess what I'm saying is my passions DO drive my work in IM, even though they don't really have anything to do with it. And what you said about doing what others won't now so that you can do what they can't later is freakin' gold. I'm gonna print that quote out and hang it on the wall because I've always felt that way, just never put it into words.
    Great post Op!
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  • I have learned in life that there are many paths one can take.

    For every question, challenge, etc, there will be tons of different answers, opinions, solutions (advice given from different angles by different folks), and a strategy that may work for one person, may not work for another.

    Of course I respect you Ken and your experience, but I do know that there will be many that may disagree that "doing what you love is terrible advice."

    Ultimately, my own personal opinion is that if "I" can love what "I" do, (and IF "I" can earn a decent living with it satisfactory to "my" financial needs), then "I" choose to do that!

    Because in the end, when laying there on my death bed, I really want to look back and know that I loved my life, my chosen path, my business, passion, niche, career, whatever I choose to do with my days.

    I do ofcourse understand that the focus of a business needs to be on the consumer, but you should be able to somehow find a balance by doing something you love, in a market (niche) filled with consumers that love what you offer.

    It's not always a bad strategy to work your ass off for a few years doing something you don't like if the exit strategy means you can live the next few decades doing what you truly love.
    I do agree with this Ken, but last year I ended up in a hospital bed spewing blood during surgery as there were complications trying to unclog my arteries.

    Sometimes stress, (not loving what you do) and working your ass off for too long, can get you to the "exit strategy" quicker than you planned. (not giving you the next few decades you speak of).

    And I don't think they have WIFI up there, or down there, depending on where you end up going...
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Damn Ken,
      Just an excellent post.

      You hit it squarely.

      Ive been saying this exact thing here at WF for years now.

      The ole adage "follow your Passion and the money will come " blah..blah..blah

      Concentrate on others first and then it will all come back and pay you in full.

      Pick a Niche, really concentrate on solving problems. If you really enjoy the niche from the git go, fine.
      But it is NOT a necessity.

      You can enter a Niche you have no Passion in of itself but develop keen Passion in running the business and helping people



      - Robert Andrew
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      • Profile picture of the author heavysm
        I have a different view on this...

        If you don't have a passion, then you follow the "problem/solution" route where you just go to markets that have pressing problems and you help them solve those problems.

        But if you do have a passion, I would do everything i can to monetize that. Because when you have a passion but you're not following it, you'll find that it can be hard to motivate yourself to keep going long term. It's not what you like doing, so why continue doing it (which is what you eventually ask yourself) and it can become more difficult for you to push yourself to do the work.

        However, if you come in without any real connection to any idea or market, then you pretty much have free reign to do whatever you wish. This might be a more ideal scenario since you can just jump into whatever fields happen to be most profitable.

        There is no one size fits all solution here, honestly.
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        • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
          This has got to be one of the most talked about debates on the W.F lately.

          The Make money with something you love to do vs. The people who think it's a terrible idea.

          Both sides have valid points. Personally if I had the choice, which I do because there's so many problems that need solving I can always find one I love working in. So, I don't get the debate.

          But as a consumer I'd rather have a surgeon operating on me, a mechanic working on my brakes or a performer entertaining me who had a love or passion for what they do - rather than the opposite, just my personal feeling.

          If I have a hint, smell or vibe you hate what you do or it's all about the money, you probably won't be much fun to work with. Just my experience. But those who can pull it off, more power to you. But to me life is too short spending time "trying to like" something as time committal as a business - if you don't have to.
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          • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
            ok

            question for the op and everyone on the thread who agrees with the op.

            if you are not passionate about what you do how do you stay driven?
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            • Profile picture of the author heavysm
              Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

              ok

              question for the op and everyone on the thread who agrees with the op.

              if you are not passionate about what you do how do you stay driven?
              I didn't quite agree with Mr. Kenster but I wasn't really that passionate about my specific industry when i first got started...

              SEO was just a means to an end for me when i got started, so it was not my passion.

              But i consider myself a unique case, because whenever i set a goal for myself the attainment of that goal itself, regardless of what it is, becomes exciting for me and therefore acted as my passion.

              I have a lot of moments of reflection over the course of the day to realign myself with whatever my daily goals are. This helps me see how the small things fit into the bigger picture so I don't get discouraged with mundane goals/work.

              I also meditate and exercise as well, which helps greatly because I can then reflect over my goals and I tend to get flashes of insight during these times.(i was sick recently for quite a while and i could do neither which greatly hindered me)
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              • Profile picture of the author Kenster
                Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

                I didn't quite agree with Mr. Kenster but I wasn't really that passionate about my specific industry when i first got started...

                SEO was just a means to an end for me when i got started, so it was not my passion.

                But i consider myself a unique case, because whenever i set a goal for myself the attainment of that goal itself, regardless of what it is, becomes exciting for me and therefore acted as my passion.

                I have a lot of moments of reflection over the course of the day to realign myself with whatever my daily goals are. This helps me see how the small things fit into the bigger picture so I don't get discouraged with mundane goals/work.

                I also meditate and exercise as well, which helps greatly because I can then reflect over my goals and I tend to get flashes of insight during these times.(i was sick recently for quite a while and i could do neither which greatly hindered me)

                If you hated it AND it wasn't a good sacrifice, then you shouldn't be doing it

                BUT...

                If you hated it and it is worth the sacrifice, then you should. I bet I can come up with a number where you say, "sure I hate SEO but I know if I work hard I can make X amount and return in 6 months"...right?

                AND...

                Niche love and passion for your business are different.

                If you hate the SEO niche but are passionate about whatever need you are solving for your customer, you can absolutely love your job.

                So I'm clearly not saying you should stick with SEO because I don't know your circumstances well enough, I'm just saying you CAN be passionate in a niche you don't like and you should never go into a niche because you love it unless you can solve a burning customer need in that niche.
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              • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
                Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

                I didn't quite agree with Mr. Kenster but I wasn't really that passionate about my specific industry when i first got started...

                SEO was just a means to an end for me when i got started, so it was not my passion.

                But i consider myself a unique case, because whenever i set a goal for myself the attainment of that goal itself, regardless of what it is, becomes exciting for me and therefore acted as my passion.

                I have a lot of moments of reflection over the course of the day to realign myself with whatever my daily goals are. This helps me see how the small things fit into the bigger picture so I don't get discouraged with mundane goals/work.

                I also meditate and exercise as well, which helps greatly because I can then reflect over my goals and I tend to get flashes of insight during these times.(i was sick recently for quite a while and i could do neither which greatly hindered me)
                Exactly my point
                While what you do is not your passion at the moment your passions are what drive you. Even your goals being a passion drives you.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kenster
                Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

                ok

                question for the op and everyone on the thread who agrees with the op.

                if you are not passionate about what you do how do you stay driven?

                You can still be passionate about what you do without going into a niche you are passionate about.

                Years ago I sold urinals. If I listed my top 1000 niches, urinals wouldn't be in there yet I was still passionate about my business. I was passionate about serving customers, passionate about starting the business and growing the business.

                Obviously that's an extreme example. But the point is, you build a business to serve a need and you can and hopefully are passionate about serving that need...but you don't need to be in a niche you love to be passionate about it.


                Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

                I didn't quite agree with Mr. Kenster but I wasn't really that passionate about my specific industry when i first got started...

                SEO was just a means to an end for me when i got started, so it was not my passion.

                But i consider myself a unique case, because whenever i set a goal for myself the attainment of that goal itself, regardless of what it is, becomes exciting for me and therefore acted as my passion.

                I have a lot of moments of reflection over the course of the day to realign myself with whatever my daily goals are. This helps me see how the small things fit into the bigger picture so I don't get discouraged with mundane goals/work.

                I also meditate and exercise as well, which helps greatly because I can then reflect over my goals and I tend to get flashes of insight during these times.(i was sick recently for quite a while and i could do neither which greatly hindered me)

                Exactly. You can absolutely create a highly successful business in the SEO space even if reading about SEO doesn't get you all amped up. It's MUCH better to go that route than to build a business in the "how to bungee jump" niche because you happen to love bungee jumping
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                • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
                  Post #42 is probably one of the best explanations to help solve the "passion vs no passion needed" debate. (Not Likely Though)

                  I've always felt it's been somewhat confusing, because both sides are basically saying the same thing. But one side neglects to tell the whole story.

                  The one's that say "you don't have to have passion to succeed in a niche" is right? But what most leave out is you still have to have passion for "something" related to the niche. The passion for running the business, earning profits, being your own boss, the challenge, etc.

                  That's why the "you have to have passion' group is confused. And the debate continues. Because the "you don't have to have passion" group just stops there, without telling the whole story.

                  Passion still has to be present ... just not necessarily in the niche product, service or even business par se'. But passion for the process, the results, or the game itself.

                  So, saying you don't have to have passion to make money in a niche is kind of misleading. Yet, you hear tons of people say it with no further explanation. With the other side wondering how or why would anyone absorb the many bumps and bruises of a business if you don't like anything about it? Seems like a waste of life.
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            • Profile picture of the author Slade556
              Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

              ok

              question for the op and everyone on the thread who agrees with the op.

              if you are not passionate about what you do how do you stay driven?
              I don't necessarily agree with the op, but I'm not against his viewpoint either. I think this all depends on each individual!
              For some, doing something they don't like will eventually make them fail at it. In many cases, people want to leave their 9 to 5 jobs because they don't like them, so why leave something boring for something else, equally boring?
              For others though - and this is the reply to your question - it's easy to stay driven because of the money. If there is good money to be made, then you'll probably see the glass half full!
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              • Profile picture of the author Kenster
                Originally Posted by Slade556 View Post

                I don't necessarily agree with the op, but I'm not against his viewpoint either. I think this all depends on each individual!
                For some, doing something they don't like will eventually make them fail at it. In many cases, people want to leave their 9 to 5 jobs because they don't like them, so why leave something boring for something else, equally boring?
                For others though - and this is the reply to your question - it's easy to stay driven because of the money. If there is good money to be made, then you'll probably see the glass half full!
                Just curious what you don't agree with?
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              • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
                Originally Posted by Slade556 View Post

                I don't necessarily agree with the op, but I'm not against his viewpoint either. I think this all depends on each individual!
                For some, doing something they don't like will eventually make them fail at it. In many cases, people want to leave their 9 to 5 jobs because they don't like them, so why leave something boring for something else, equally boring?
                For others though - and this is the reply to your question - it's easy to stay driven because of the money. If there is good money to be made, then you'll probably see the glass half full!
                Exactly for some money, achieving goals, family, status, position will drive them and these things become their passions. I believe that without having passion in some form a person will fail.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Fuentes
            Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

            But as a consumer I'd rather have a surgeon operating on me, a mechanic working on my brakes or a performer entertaining me who had a love or passion for what they do - rather than the opposite, just my personal feeling.
            Yes. And somewhere, somehow, and in any point in time --

            There's this group of multi-millionaires / billionaires with the passion to profit from a market need / problem by offering a solution, so:

            This group ends up hiring specialists with the passion to create the best solution for a need / problem, i.e. A team of surgeons and geneticists and biotech engineers to create an artificial vision system for the blind, a team of mechanics and engineers and physicists to create intelligent car brake systems, and a team of entertainers, script writers, directors and video production specialists to create an entertaining movie ...

            ... AND ...

            Once those solutions have been created, tested and packaged for commercial distribution --

            This group hires advertising agencies, PR companies, marketing experts, sales managers, sales agents, support staff and so on ...

            I think this still sounds like a helpful proposition for consumers with the passion to improve the overall quality of their lives by solving their needs and problems ...

            ... And a profitable business venture for investors with the passion to identify a set of real world needs and problems of a specific group of people that they can better cater to and serve ...

            ... And an enjoyable activity (and a gainful employment stint) for experts with the passion to do what they want ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

    Unfortunately, I completely disagree and I think the above advice is dangerous...especially the "It's not always a bad strategy to work your ass off for a few years doing something you don't like..."

    That is a bad strategy for any business, online or otherwise, because that means your only passion will be about money. Which goes against everything else you just said about building a business...the money can't be the primary goal.

    Whenever someone approaches me about an IM site, the first thing I ask them is, "What are you passionate about?" Then I ask, "Where do people spend money within that niche?" Finally, I close with, "What can you do unique that people within that niche will appreciate and tell their friends about?"

    It really is that simple; that's all the guidance you need to form a brand.

    But the problem here is that 99 out of 100 people reading your post are not making money online, they don't know where to start and their only focus is, "How do I make money?" So telling them to do something they dislike (like selling an eBook about being an Internet Superstar) is a fool's errand, because all they can do is copy the previous guy and hope for the best.

    So yes- do what you love. Build a brand around it and then give people a reason to appreciate you. Heck, Zappos sells men's shoes...how boring it that? But Hsieh had the passion and it's one of the world's biggest brands. He never would have got there if he didn't love what he was doing though, and you'll find this exact same story behind every major name on the Internet. Facebook, Amazon, Travelocity, Apple....every creator was doing what he loved and that's where the passion came from.

    So I'm sorry, but "do what you love" is awesome advice. It is simply incomplete advice since there's more to developing a brand and eventually monetizing, but it all starts with passion for the people within your segment.

    ...nowhere does it say the only or main desire has to be money. The last part makes a simple suggestion that sometimes making a bunch of money up front so you can earn a whole load of free time to pursue your true goals and passions in life (maybe start a charity, rescue dolphins, whatever) is a good exchange. But of course the last part suggested that only SOMETIMES is that not a bad strategy…and I’m willing to bet a LOT of wealthy people you know aren’t in a business they have a deep love for…or at least didn’t start with that love. Let me ask you this...if there was a huge need for cleaning dirty toilets in your town and you feel you can fill that need well and earn 10 million dollars a day, would you? How about 100 million a day? There's always a point where it becomes worth it. Obviously it's a hypothetical but makes the point that sometimes temporarily doing something others won't so you can earn retirement decades earlier isn't a bad strategy.

    ...and this all hinges on being able to solve the need. If you see a huge need in a niche you hate and don't think you can solve it because you don't have the passion, then obviously that's a bad route...common sense.

    Tony Hsieh, what if he followed your advice…if he picked the top 5 niches he loved when he started, do you think shoes would be in there? Doubtful. But he was passionate about solving a need so he’s in a niche he doesn’t give a rats butt about but his passion for solving the need makes him love what he does.

    And that’s my point. Don’t start with your favorite love niche, start with the greatest impact you can make on consumers and IF you can develop a passion for solving that, regardless of niche, go for it.

    The underlying premise under the whole post is that you are doing it to solve a need as the priority and the money or anything else is secondary.

    The whole point is that the customers needs and desires are put before your own…and if you do so, your needs as the business owner will be met.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    A few folks are thinking...

    "If you don't love what you do, you are only doing it for the money"

    or

    "If you don't love what you do, you hate it"

    Both aren't the points of the post. The point is that 1) put your consumer above yourself when going into a business...so money should never be the priority but rather the side effect of putting the consumer first and 2) you shouldn't do something just because you love it...but you can absolutely do something you love and if you can solve a great need in a niche you love, have at it.

    But remember, your passion should be about solving the need, NOT the niche.

    And the Zappos example is a great one. Tony may have liked shoes but do you think his real love in life is shoes? But he is passionate about solving a need in that niche...and he created a company and brand around that passion, impacted millions and is now making millions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

    You CAN absolutely love what you do and/or develop a passion for whatever niche you're in, but don't go into that niche simply because you love it. Go into it with the sole focus of helping people in that niche solve a burning pain, problem, inconvenience, etc. If there isn't that burning need that you and your business can adequately solve, you'll fail.

    Nice post Ken.

    The above is an important comment IMO. When thinking about the subject it doesn't have to be "either/or." Do something you love (and that you're passionate about) and something that is of service helping people with their problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    the formula i have gone by ..is not focusing on any one thing that you love to do ..as when i love playing world of warcraft .. there was no real way for a westerner to make any money at it .. or other games..unless you where a lot better than me ..or a lot more dedicated ..

    i eventually learned oe did a break down.. of what i like about playing the game.. or what made me passionate about doing a good job at work ..

    then i had a whole bunch of health problems i needed to take care of ..and though i became a real good cook .. one very demotivating thing for me..is actually having to do the same thing over and over ..so being a chef and perfecting recipies then cooking the same thing over and over..or being a cook and cooking the same thing over and over ..whould not be something that suited me ..

    anyway.. i identified a list of thing i enjoy doing while working and thing i don't ..and then found a type of business that i could work in much of what i like doing and limit the stuff i do not enjoy .. actuallu a few businesses ..that are related ..

    forget the thing that you think you are passionate about .. because once you go from that being something you do a small amount or a large amount of time for fun..to doing it 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week to put food on the table ..you won't be passionate about it for long ..unless you are lucky .

    identify what motivates you to do things ..do them well. and keep doing them.. and build your business so that you do what motivates you..and there are people out there who are motivated to do what you don't like doing and not motivated to do what you like doing .. find them .work with them .

    people who are a hundred years old and healthy .. get out of bed and have work they do every day ..that they get in the zone doing .

    find the work that will get you jumping out of bed in the morning ..

    in any case you migh have to get jobs you do not like ..if they provide a path to building skills and figuring out what you will like to do for work ..
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Everyone has valid points on both sides, and honestly I can't totally disagree with either side. But I do have my personal preference as I stated in an earlier post.

      So, why can't we do it all? Why does it always have to be an "Either- Or" proposition where each side feels the other side is mislead, mis-informed or just wrong?

      So, someone please tell me why you can't ...

      Put the customer first ... ... By solving a nagging problem ... While making a healthy profit ... Loving what you do ... In a niche you're passionate about ... (and any other non-conflicting goal you choose).

      None of those qualities conflict. In fact, they're all on my personal goal checklist. In fact, many harmonize and enhance each other.

      I'd be glad if anyone could clarify why you can't do it all, rather than debate over which one is important or terrible.Thanks for clearing this up for me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kenster
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        Everyone has valid points on both sides, and honestly I can't totally disagree with either side. But I do have my personal preference as I stated in an earlier post.

        So, why can't we do it all? Why does it always have to be an "Either- Or" proposition where each side feels the other side is mislead, mis-informed or just wrong?

        So, someone please tell me why you can't ...

        Put the customer first ... ... By solving a nagging problem ... While making a healthy profit ... Loving what you do ... In a niche you're passionate about ... (and any other non-conflicting goal you choose).

        None of those qualities conflict. In fact, they're all on my personal goal checklist. In fact, many harmonize and enhance each other.

        I'd be glad if anyone could clarify why you can't do it all, rather than debate over which one is important or terrible.Thanks for clearing this up for me.

        I can't debate because I agree with you.

        The ideal scenario is finding the most burning need you can solve in the niche you love the most and are passionate about solving the need and running your business and make a bunch of money in the process...winning.
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  • I think "do what you love" is bad advice for two reasons:

    1. It may ruin what you love.

    This is something I hear from musicians a lot. They say that being forced to do music every day ruins music for them. The idea here is, work has unpleasant elements about it. If you take the ONE thing that you're MOST PASSIONATE about in this whole wide world, and you combine it with the day to day routine of work, that could create a Pavlovian association where the thing you love, starts to be less "lovable." This obviously doesn't apply to everyone but for some people it's a very real risk--like I said, I've heard it from many musicians.

    2. It's not always possible.

    Think of it. What kinds of things do people "love"? They're all over the place. Some of us are fortunate enough to "love" things that are easy to get paid for--driving, programming, copywriting--but many don't. What if your main love is poetry? It's pretty hard to get paid doing that.

    The advice that I recommend instead is, "do what you like enough for it to not feel like work.

    Everybody can find something that they enjoy enough, for the work to not FEEL like work. For some it's writing. For some it's talking. For others its drawing. Each of these are easy enough to turn into a business. Take drawing, for example. It's not easy to make a living just drawing whatever you want, but it's very easy to make a living doing graphic design. That sort of thinking is what leads people to very satisfying careers.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Andy The Copywriter View Post

      1. It may ruin what you love.

      This is something I hear from musicians a lot. They say that being forced to do music every day ruins music for them. The idea here is, work has unpleasant elements about it. If you take the ONE thing that you're MOST PASSIONATE about in this whole wide world, and you combine it with the day to day routine of work, that could create a Pavlovian association where the thing you love, starts to be less "lovable." This obviously doesn't apply to everyone but for some people it's a very real risk--like I said, I've heard it from many musicians.


      Ding ding ding we have a winner.

      So true. I have several Passions in Life that I pursue on an ongoing basis. If I tried to mix it up with Money in the equation it would definitely take away the Passion I have for these activities I love
      so much.

      Your case and point about musicians is SPOT on.

      So many musicians sacrifice their love for music for the almighty dollar.

      Many regret it so much later on
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by Andy The Copywriter View Post

      I think "do what you love" is bad advice for two reasons:

      1. It may ruin what you love.

      This is something I hear from musicians a lot. They say that being forced to do music every day ruins music for them. The idea here is, work has unpleasant elements about it. If you take the ONE thing that you're MOST PASSIONATE about in this whole wide world, and you combine it with the day to day routine of work, that could create a Pavlovian association where the thing you love, starts to be less "lovable." This obviously doesn't apply to everyone but for some people it's a very real risk--like I said, I've heard it from many musicians.

      2. It's not always possible.

      Think of it. What kinds of things do people "love"? They're all over the place. Some of us are fortunate enough to "love" things that are easy to get paid for--driving, programming, copywriting--but many don't. What if your main love is poetry? It's pretty hard to get paid doing that.

      The advice that I recommend instead is, "do what you like enough for it to not feel like work.

      Everybody can find something that they enjoy enough, for the work to not FEEL like work. For some it's writing. For some it's talking. For others its drawing. Each of these are easy enough to turn into a business. Take drawing, for example. It's not easy to make a living just drawing whatever you want, but it's very easy to make a living doing graphic design. That sort of thinking is what leads people to very satisfying careers.
      lol you are basically saying do what you love or have a passion about.

      A real muscian could care less about a 9 to 5 gig doing music. They do what they love and nothing could ever stop that.

      Doing what you like could be the same as what you love. If you love doing something and you are passionate about it you will find a way to make ends. Ones love and passion is what keeps people driven even if they are not doing what they are passionate about at the moment.

      Example
      The future Actor who works waiting tables.
      The Musician that shops his music from company to company.

      Peoples loves and passions are what drive them to do what they do and to become great that is why Coaches say do what you love.
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  • Profile picture of the author elchubinebrae
    i agree with the first line, i loved smoking weed and it pretty much got me nowhere.
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  • Each of us has different opinions, goals and perception. Even the meaning of success is different for everyone.

    I think that as long as you stick to your goal and you have the right will and mind setting to fulfill that goal, you will become successful in your chosen business -whether it is something that you love or not.

    Also in business, there is nothing wrong in pursuing something that you love--- as long as you also think 'realistically'. Most of the time, being passionate at something may not really lead to a business that provides you with stable income. Most of the time as well you give more than you receive.

    I guess it is important to define and set your goals before starting a business. It is important to balance everything out.
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  • Profile picture of the author nurz
    This is absolutely true; by simply doing what we love we cannot expect to have a sustainable income without a market for it. I would say think of what you love doing and then see if you can turn it into a sustainable income. Create a need from what you love to do so that people will patronize your service or product. Help people see the benefits of what you offer and how it can solve their problems and they will instantly become your best customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author HennieN
    Lets throw in another angle.


    For me there are two ingredients needed - compelling WHY and adding value.


    If you want to monetize anything, you need to be able to add value. You can add value in any area (even if it is your passion). If it is not going to add value, then it is not going to earn you money.


    The second and most important is you WHY. Why are you doing what you are doing? Is it for the money? Or, do you rally want to make a difference in people's lives? Interestingly most millionaires make it their duty to add value to other people by sharing or charity.


    If your WHY is big enough, you will get up every morning and get to your goal. If it is you passion, you won't get up to go to a job, but you will continue to live your life. So it is really about the route.


    I believe that you can do what you love as long as your WHY is big enough to get you to your goal. The WHY is the route, and the adding value the fuel.
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  • Profile picture of the author workwithgvo
    i am totally Agree
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  • Profile picture of the author AixenPixel
    You know, people used to always tell me find your niche. I would always say that I didn't have one, simply because no one told me the true meaning of niche to begin with.
    Niche- Use what you know about the subject you love to help others.
    Thank you for helping me see that. Even if it may've been obvious before, I didn't catch it. But after reading your post, I did. I cannot express the gratitude I have with simple text, but just imagine winning 50k.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by AixenPixel View Post

      You know, people used to always tell me find your niche. I would always say that I didn't have one, simply because no one told me the true meaning of niche to begin with.
      Niche- Use what you know about the subject you love to help others.
      Thank you for helping me see that. Even if it may've been obvious before, I didn't catch it. But after reading your post, I did. I cannot express the gratitude I have with simple text, but just imagine winning 50k.

      Awesome!!

      Also remember that there are many business models where you don't need to know about the niche to be in it. Licensing, partnerships, affiliate models, etc...if you have certain business and marketing skills, you can run successful businesses in a variety of niches you know next to nothing about.

      ...the same way CEOs of major corporations can run a food company and then run an energy firm.

      Of course for the solopreneur, knowing your niche can help a lot!
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  • Profile picture of the author AlphaPhilosophy
    Hit the nail on the head.
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  • Profile picture of the author randak
    Amazing advice, Kenster. The people that author books need to read this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jolly Serath
    "Struggle is the meaning of life, defeat and victory is in the hand of God, but struggle itself is man's duty and should be his joy"
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  • Profile picture of the author Trey Morgan
    Great words of wisdom Kenster. Want to make more money? Well, then go out there and help more people solve their problems. If you can truly solve someone's problem and you make this clear to that person, he/she will be more than willing to pay for that solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author PrettyJenny
    Thanks for a great read! I think the most important getaway from your article is "Build something customers need, not what you want". Of course the best scenario is to find a problem that you also love solving, as that is the sure way to keep your motivation high at all times.

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  • Luck (and I don't mean fate) plays a bigger role than action. Wether you belive this or not.
    Most success stories are just people landing in situations where direction was lacking, and direction was needed.
    It's why the Hero emrges from the crowd, why all cultural mythology is so old, since the more you control the enviroment, the less of a risk people are willing to pay.

    We strive for security, and it's precisely this desire which pushes us back into conservatism.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by RealSocialSignals View Post

      Luck (and I don't mean fate) plays a bigger role than action. Wether you belive this or not.
      Most success stories are just people landing in situations where direction was lacking, and direction was needed.
      It's why the Hero emrges from the crowd, why all cultural mythology is so old, since the more you control the enviroment, the less of a risk people are willing to pay.

      We strive for security, and it's precisely this desire which pushes us back into conservatism.

      I highly disagree...at least if you're saying that luck is more important than action.

      Action makes luck. Action is execution, implementation, getting out there and increasing your chances of meeting the right person or being in the right place at the same time.

      But for most people who become successful, action and implementation comes before luck. Action doesn't mean having clarity on where you'll end up, but it means getting out there, learning, making mistakes, changing direction based on feedback and knowledge you learn, etc.

      It's highly dangerous to rely on luck to be successful...though I don't suspect that's what you were suggesting
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  • Profile picture of the author SandraGenJobs
    There are two sides to every story. You can love what you do and still not be successful at it, and you can absolutely hate your job but it's still possible to build a well paying business around it. It really depends on what you count as success. I have a strong feeling OP's definition of success revolves around money, while mine revolves around doing what I love so I have to disagree from the start.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by SandraGenJobs View Post

      There are two sides to every story. You can love what you do and still not be successful at it, and you can absolutely hate your job but it's still possible to build a well paying business around it. It really depends on what you count as success. I have a strong feeling OP's definition of success revolves around money, while mine revolves around doing what I love so I have to disagree from the start.
      Success in business generally means impacting a lot of people in a good way and being financially rewarded for it. Success for the founder of the business is different for everybody, but for me, it's a business that earns money freedom and time freedom.

      Money does play a role in success, including yours. I suspect you are being paying for your time and for some value that you're providing or need your solving? Now that doesn't mean you need to be a greedy, money-hungry entrepreneur who is only focused on earning money at the expense of others...very few of people with that perspective become successful and the ones who do rarely stay successful.

      My point is quite the opposite. A business should be built to serve others first...that's what has driven every great business since the beginning of time...serving people, solving problems, etc.

      Can I ask what you do that you love? And how money plays a role in that?

      I don't disagree with you, just want to understand your perspective better...I suspect it aligns with mine
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  • Profile picture of the author leilapearse
    Banned
    Very well said, thanks for lighting up!
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  • Profile picture of the author dndoseller
    I say do what you love and build your lifestyle around the income that can afford.

    I don't think you know what its like to really love doing something, and feeling that is your purpose or you wouldn't ever give that advice.

    There is no greater happiness than being "in flow" with doing the thing you feel your were meant to do.

    Money just can't buy that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by dndoseller View Post

      I say do what you love and build your lifestyle around the income that can afford.

      I don't think you know what its like to really love doing something, and feeling that is your purpose or you wouldn't ever give that advice.

      There is no greater happiness than being "in flow" with doing the thing you feel your were meant to do.

      Money just can't buy that.

      I don't think you understood the post.

      Nobody ever said you can't or shouldn't do what you love. The point was you shouldn't build a business around your love if that love doesn't serve a market need. A business is meant to serve others...and again, that DOES NOT mean that you can't also love doing that.

      ...and nobody said you had to chase money or do things only for the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimBitton
    I don't really agree because you're only taking this with the 'business mindset'.
    But when you say 'do what you love' that doesn't just apply to having a business.

    A friend likes playing a particular video game and now he's started earning money by getting in a team and competing in tournaments.
    He does what he loves

    Another guy might like traveling and seeing and photographing exotic places. So he can travel, make a blog about traveling and earn money that way.

    You don't just earn by having a business. There are multiple ways to earn money and do what you love at the same time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by TimBitton View Post

      I don't really agree because you're only taking this with the 'business mindset'.
      But when you say 'do what you love' that doesn't just apply to having a business.

      A friend likes playing a particular video game and now he's started earning money by getting in a team and competing in tournaments.
      He does what he loves

      Another guy might like traveling and seeing and photographing exotic places. So he can travel, make a blog about traveling and earn money that way.

      You don't just earn by having a business. There are multiple ways to earn money and do what you love at the same time.


      Yes, this was a post about building a business...that was the purpose.

      If you love hula hooping, by all means, spend every moment of your free time moving your hips...but if you're looking to build a business, don't build it around hula hooping because that's your love in life...UNLESS, again, there's a market need that you can serve related to hula hooping.

      This was business advice on a business forum

      PS...if you love traveling and have a travel blog, awesome, that's a business. If there's a market need you can monetize in the travel space with your travel blog, have at it and do what you love! But build your business around the market need, not just around your own selfish desire to have a travel related business because you love traveling.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      ...interesting combination of items to be sold in a pharmacy
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  • Profile picture of the author jackblack777
    I like the way you explained everything!
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  • Profile picture of the author jw22777
    I don't think I have ever looked at it from that angle. Mind opening. Thank you for the post!
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  • Profile picture of the author Joyce Birmingham
    I tend to agree. It's about what the customer wants, not about my passion. There's a joke about how I followed my passion: I ate some pizza, had an early nap, watched my favourite show - and now I wait!
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  • Profile picture of the author Master Blake
    Still, this is great advice however nothing is absolute. If you don't love what you do, you turn into a slave.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Nobody said to do something you hate, just that doing what you love blind of what the market needs and wants is bad advice
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      • Profile picture of the author kmnkumaran
        Totally disagree

        did anyone need pepsi urgently ??
        did anyone need fried chicken desperately ??


        Successful people built brands and business by creating markets , creating the need

        they create the need

        NO one can sit down and select a successful business and start running it without any passion or interest

        The gurus are right and You sir, got it entirely wrong

        Do not give Bad advice
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        • Profile picture of the author Kenster
          The inventor of Pepsi started a business, a pharmacy, because there was demand for it where he lived. That's smart. I don't think his passion in life was owning a pharmacy...I suspect not even in his top 5 passions in life.

          While working the pharmacy he put some sugar and caramel into liquid and figured customers may want it, so he sold it, and found out there was demand for it. I'm sure he was passionate about bringing his drink invention to the world...but I suspect if you asked him the year before "making a sugary drink" wouldn't have been in his top 5 passions in life either.

          Was he passionate about sharing Pepsi with the world, I suspect he was, that's great.

          He did not blindly follow his passion (as many gurus suggest startup entrepreneurs do).

          As for creating markets, that's what some of the worlds best entrepreneurs do but not what 99% of successful entrepreneurs do. They solve existing needs or wants the same or better than other participants or they add their own twist to existing demands (like almost every restaurant on the planet for example)

          And yes, many people start businesses they are not passionate about. I don't recommend it but many do. Trust me, I've worked with hundreds of incredibly successful entrepreneurs and many absolutely hate what they do, the money got them there and keeps them there.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

        Nobody said to do something you hate, just that doing what you love blind of what the market needs and wants is bad advice
        Yes, true if l did what l was crazy about it would be ceramics, and till this day l would be struggling to make enough to live off.

        So l switched to something that is in the ballpark, or flyers, and am making a success of it.

        At least if l create 10 flyers some will be virtually guaranteed to sell, and sell year in and year out.

        Ceramics or other service based businesse's, it has to be constant effort, unless you find someone to subcontract out to.

        I would rather be in a business that makes money when l am on a beach somewhere.

        Good advise Kenster, but there are probably some newbies here, that don't want to hear it.

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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    100 plus years ago pepsi and cock where sold in pharmacies because people thought they where medicine at the time ..if i remember the story ..which i probably don't someone bought the formula for pepsi from the inventor then made it what it is today ..

    from studying successfull people .. it goes beyond passion into obsession that drives them to work 12 + hours a day 6-7 days a week ..obsession with putting the best product out their to serve the customers
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      100 plus years ago pepsi and cock where sold in pharmacies because people thought they where medicine at the time ..if i remember the story ..which i probably don't someone bought the formula for pepsi from the inventor then made it what it is today ..

      from studying successfull people .. it goes beyond passion into obsession that drives them to work 12 + hours a day 6-7 days a week ..obsession with putting the best product out their to serve the customers
      I am sure you meant Coke?

      I know that it is a chemist, but still, lol.

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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      If I remember correct, the actual inventor of Pepsi was an actual pharmacist and just sold it in his own store...where he then realized he might be on to something and the rest is history.
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      • Profile picture of the author kmnkumaran
        Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

        If I remember correct, the actual inventor of Pepsi was an actual pharmacist and just sold it in his own store...where he then realized he might be on to something and the rest is history.
        you would be surprised to know the "passion" pharmacy owners have for their business..he wouldn't have "just mixed some sugar and stuff" if he wasn't enjoying what he did

        Bill gates created the software out of passion

        There are so many examples..so many businesses and brands have been created by sheer passion

        yes there are also example of people who created business without knowing about it or "stumbled" onto it

        you see more and more people following their passion and becoming sucessfull.

        That's life and you cannot draw a circle and say " this is the boundary within which you have to perform"

        that's insane
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        • Profile picture of the author Kenster
          I don't think you understood the point.

          Nobody is saying you shouldn't have passion for what you do.

          Nobody is saying the best entrepreneurs weren't passionate about they do.

          But blindly following a passion is terrible advice. Most great entrepreneurs aren't passionate about the specific topic their business is in, they are passionate about business in general, about serving the market, filling in gaps, about growing their business, about helping consumers. That's the passion that drives them, not the topic of their business...and it's why most great entrepreneurs have worked in a myriad of industries.

          Most great entrepreneurs are passionate about what they do, but they build businesses that solve consumers' needs first.


          My point was that many life coaches say "just follow your passion". So people say "I'm passionate about puppies, cupcakes, bmws, whatever" then they build a website around that topic and 99% fail. Your business is meant to serve others, not fulfill your hobby, interest, or passion.

          And again, that doesn't mean entrepreneurs shouldn't be passionate about starting, running, growing their business.

          And I disagree...I think more people fail today because of the "just follow your passion advice". It's why millions of young girls are trying to be the next Instagram star. 9,999/10,000 fail. And out of the 1 in 10,000 who don't fail, 90% of those are barely earning a good income.
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

    "Doing what you love" is terrible advice spouted by life coaches and gurus. The role of a business is to solve needs, build bridges of convenience, help people solve problems or live happier, healthier, wealthier, more comfortably, etc. The focus of a business needs to be on the consumer and what they want...a successful consumer-driven business will then be your vehicle of freedom as the founder of that business. But to build a business with YOUR motivation as the starting point (like 99% of new entrepreneurs do) and try and find a way to help others as a secondary means to achieving your desired end will lead to failure. A business is created for others -- help enough others, impact enough others, and the business will ultimately pay you handsomely as the founder.
    Oh if only more cats took this to heart. We could save so many savings accounts from hitting bottom. Marriages too.
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  • Profile picture of the author ijohnson
    I agree with Kenster's opening post and his comment posted about an hour ago. But I would like to add that in affiliate marketing and internet marketing, if you pursue your passion, do your due diligence and research it to make darn sure there is a market for what you're offering.

    It is of utmost importance to conduct thorough keyword and market research to ensure that your hard work will not be in vain. That research should point you in the right direction as to whether you should pursue your passion or a niche that's not your passion, or get your mind ready to pursue a labor of love.

    And, if you can afford it, pay for coaching to help shorten the learning curve and maybe accomplish some goals or get to some successful results faster before you get completely frustrated, burned out, and/or distracted.

    Good thread, Kenster! And very good replies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Master Blake
    Love what you do and abundance will flock like the swirling snow that turns into an avalanche.
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  • I completely agree. You should do what you love but do it in a way that'll make you money. Do some market research before hopping into that niche.

    If you can't make a living off of it, wait and do something else you do or don't love doing and make money in that niche then go back to your first niche and do it as a side hobby.

    I honestly believe you can make money doing anything these days though. Just gotta know how to maneuver the cash flow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Net 700
    Do what you love, life won't get any bigger.

    For example turning down a 4k salary for 3k income just because it sets you free and you have no probs doing it. Just keep grinding until the fat lady sings.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    The most depressing thing to do with your life is to devote it to anything other than following your passion. What is the point if you don't do what you love? Thinking that one through for a good 5-10 minutes helps all see: following your love and matching your passion with solving some problem leads to worldly success and happiness.

    Funny how every happy billionaire I have followed online advises you to follow your passion. Yet no Warrior offering this counsel is a happy billionaire hehehe...2 and 2?
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    • Profile picture of the author Reddevil007
      Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post

      The most depressing thing to do with your life is to devote it to anything other than following your passion. What is the point if you don't do what you love? Thinking that one through for a good 5-10 minutes helps all see: following your love and matching your passion with solving some problem leads to worldly success and happiness.

      Funny how every happy billionaire I have followed online advises you to follow your passion. Yet no Warrior offering this counsel is a happy billionaire hehehe...2 and 2?
      True that pal I just see the so called experts come up with their advise and forget about Billionaires they aren't even a millionaire lmao...guys just follow your passion and money will automatically come. You come what you are good at it can be anything just stick to it and rake in that moolah. I believe the so called experts should stop posting their advice and we should close this section. These guys make it look so complicated when all you gotta do is take massive action and with the kind of opportunities one has today....no reason to complain about failure.

      Ryan spot on!
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Beck
    Doing what you love is key to your happiness and overall well being. Just become A Player and you won't have to work as hard.
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