The mindset of a world class Entrepreneur. Harvey Brody.

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Thinking.
Mindset.
All things Mind Warriors.

So as not to highjack someone's thread, I started this one, perhaps the most important thread I've ever started.

Why is this important?

It is all about your thinking, your mindset and perhaps this guy's way of thinking will help you wrap your heads around why YOUR MIND is the most important tool you have.

You will find many strategies, methods, formulas, step by step from IM and marketing gurus, but this guy, Harvey Brody will tell you, it is all about how you think.

It looks like new generations and even older Warriors don't know about Harvey Brody, if you google him, more than likely the artist from San Francisco will pop up. Wrong guy.

Harvey Brody, the marketer, lives in S. CA, Orange county. He has 67 years of continuous success, and as of last week, he told me he was still going strong and is excited about his opportunities.

Allow me to give a brief history, and then I'll share some of his secrets, and I can do that because outside of his family, I probably have had the most contact with him and I have over 30 hours of audios I recorded over a several year period.

After 3 years in the Air Force, and 3 years of college and graduation, he went to S. Calif to make his fortune.

He quickly found out he didn't want to be an employee, so he offered his Mechanical Engineering degree to others on a Per Diem basis. And he worked with legends, including Joe Cossman, althoug Joe in the scheme of things was probably one of the less successful of his clients. Nonetheless, Harvey was a sponge when it came to absorbing money making methods.

Well, while he was still in college, fixing typewriters for extra income, he came up with a way to oil the keys, and he found he could patent his device, and the Zoom Spout Oiler was born. To date, over 125 million units have been sold, and Harvey owns it lock, stock and barrel. He has like 130 Master Distributors, like Home Depot, Lowe's, etc., etc. who actually sells it.

He does not stock this product.
He does not ship it, has no warehouse for it.
He controls it from the bottle it is put in, the formula for the oil and the distribution.

He calls his method the TOLL POSITION, if you want to sell the Zoom Spout Oiler you have to come through him and pay his toll. As noted, over 125 million sold and more every day.

After he gained all the knowledge he felt he needed, he quit the per diem gig and started a publishing company, as well as keeping his Oil company going. That publishing grew huge, and then he introduced the computer to list management. Hard for most of you to imagine a time when we didn't have computers isn't it?

He put on seminars in L.A. And this is where the likes of Jay Abraham (who sat at Harvey's feet for months because of a referral from Bud Weckesser), Gary Halbert, Dan Kennedy, Joe Karbo, Ben Suarez, Joe Sugarman, even Melvin Powers and Jerry Buchanan were his students and attendees.

One day he went to work and an employee annoyed him so much, he decided to close his very lucrative publishing business by simply ignoring it. One by one his employees fled, much to Harvey's delight.

Then he worked with his wife and daughter and has been doing so for the last 40 years. They provide part time help, while Harvey conducts International business and makes deals throughout the world.

He is an inspiration for all of us one man bands who don't want to have employees, like me. Some guys love to have a family of employees, Ben Suarez comes to mind who has 3 generations working in his company. Ben built the business for family and friends.

So, whatever suits you, do that. Just know you don't have to have employees and still do millions of dollars in business from your home office. And that is why Harvey is, for many of us Warriors, an ideal model to learn from.

But what would he teach us?

One thing. It is ALL mindset. Every single part of it, now go ahead argue with him if you want, and say you have to have strategy, methods and all that and he would say, your success begins and ends with your mind, all the rest is just doing what needs to be done.

This is why he is a perfect model to look at in this mind forum. How does he think? What does that look like and how can we model it and try to replicate it? And he would tell you, it is all learnable.

His two favorite metaphors, and like almost all great teachers, this is how he teaches, are the Car going on a journey, or a plane flying somewhere.

Both begin with destinations in mind. Both require a map. And both require pre trip preparations.

What are these and how do you make your own?

I live near Akron, OH. If I wanted to go to New York City, I would travel East. Going any other direction would delay my arrival, maybe never making it there.

If in a car, I would want to look on a map, and today, we have GPS to guide us along the way. If you ignore the GPS, you might wind up in NJ, then you would really be stuck (joke friends). I know how much gas it will take to get me there, how long it will take, the main route, and alternatives too, in case there is an incident on the main route, I can make a detour.

If by plane, flying to LA wouldn't make any sense, but say I wanted to pilot my own plane, I would need a flight plan, and get it approved, then do a preflight checklist to make sure my plane was ready to go. Then I need to kick out the chocks, one of Harvey's favorites, him being ex Air Force and all.

Many Warriors might be sitting on the runway and can't move because they forgot to kick out the chocks, those big blocks holding the plane in one place. Then, you have to taxi down the runway and get airborn and start making corrections to your flight path to make sure you are following the rules and don't get in the way of a jumbo jet on the way. Once in the air, you may encounter tubulence or a storm pops up and you have to alter your course in someway.

This akin to a Warrior getting started and then having google or other platform slap them out of business, but if you have a good flight plan, you will have an alternative route to take.

All this is THINKING, and it is preliminary BEFORE any action is taken.

Basically, Harvey teaches:

You have to have a destination, a vehicle to get you there, well maintained and ready to go...
you need a map or flight plan
you need a preflight or preparation checklist...and then when fueled and ready,
you kick out the chocks, head down the road and adjust as things, like storms or accidents pop up and something will ALWAYs POP UP you don't expect.

Another way he teaches is the view from the rooftop, where you see your destination and make a route to follow to get there.

In this metaphor, he uses a ladder up the side of the bldg, and you plan from the TOP down to the bottom. This is opposite of what so many teach. The last rung is the step off rung to the roof, what is this? What is the rung beneath that and so on all the way to the ground.

How much time will it take to get to the ground, and then when you have all the steps clearly identified you start the climb up, knowing what each rung is and this serves as a progress report. What happens, all too often, someone gets up and enjoys the view so much they forget to keep going, or the opposite...they get higher and start to fear falling, so they self sabotage.

Worse yet are those who get almost to the step off rung and just can't make it to the roof.

His backward chaining from the step off rung down the ladder could be a revolution for your thinking

As an example. My step off rung for a new report is listing my product for sale. Before I do this, I have my means of accepting their money in place (maybe thank you page), before that I need to set up that page, before that I need to have it somewhere customers can get to it, before that...all the way back to the bottom of the ladder where I can clearly see the view from the rooftop, people buying my product.

By knowing each step required, backwards from the finish line, you can then map out a time goal and set a date for completion and know exactly where you are at any point and when you will finish and also if you are on schedule or not.

It is so much more effective than trying to see what the steps are from the beginning, because that gets overwhelming, and when you look up and see all those rungs on the ladder, well, who wants to climb all those? But looking down from the completion to the beginning, you simply do one rung at a time.

It is ALL about mindset. Any questions?
#brody #class #entrepreneur #harvey #mindset #world
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    SUBSCRIBED/UPVOTED - All ears... looking forward to this classroom!
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    If I may... I am going to break this down to stupid... what we are talking about here, is "Order of Operations" But before we can get to THAT... we have to transition from ideas to actions ( #3 in the video below ) Its the actual ACTION - and I will add right wrong or indifferent.. action outweighs thought all day long. Without action, there is not success nor failure... and from failure, and success to a degree, there is learning.

    So "Order of Operation"... regardless of your action - what you are doing, the "Order of Operation" in anything and everything we do, is exactly the same - EXACTLY the same. There is NO order of difficulty... Granted, there maybe added steps.. but the flow is EXACTLY the same.

    Building a house... first thing you do? Draw up plans, then dig a hole, and then set the foundation... Starting a business? Going to the store? ( write out a list.. drive to the store, buy the stuff go home, put away the stuff ) Waking up, going to bed? ( Im feeling tired.. take a shower brush your teeth, wash your face, put on PJ's fluff your pillow ) The EXACT same process, over and over.

    The GREATEST issue is not in the idea of it all, its the ACTION - What can you do today, to make tomorrow better vs why do today, when you can do it tomorrow ( again #3 in the video below )

    Planning as I have found in my life to be about maybe 5% of success. I more often than not will ACT first, and plan later - BUT I understand the Order of Operations... something as silly as wanting to grow micro greens for a pet rabbit quickly turned into a full blow operation... it wasnt planning that got me there, it was BLIND action following Order of Operation. I have X... is there demand for X? how to I scale X to meet demand? Execute scale of X. Planning in this scenario was 3 and 4 steps from the actual beginning... planning came AFTER action.

    In Internet Marketing... whats the foundation? Lets refer to building a house... Foundation, Framing, closing it in, Mechanicals, windows, Drywall, exterior finishes, doors, interior finishes, exterior landscaping etc

    Now lets place that in internet terms... foundation - Hosting. Framing - website platform say Wordpress - and picking a theme. Close it in - security, plugins etc. Mechanicals - Pages, Landers, E-mail list, navigation. Windows - instead of seeing out this is seeing in... SEO and linking from other platforms etc. Drywall - how the site looks on the inside.. colors and page layouts etc.

    I think you get the idea... there is no difference in building a website than a house.. same order of operations... and again, no different that anything else. The process is actually the easy part - its the Do ING, the first step that is the block.. just get started - NOW - TODAY

    So the video... When you here the words "History Repeats itself" this would be right in there with one of the best examples... Marcus Aurelius ( Roman Emperor ) from 2000+ yrs ago took power on the tail end of a Pandemic... how he grew himself and his nation from the worst of times... to literally the best of times in Roman Empire history... Im a fan of the "Stoic" philosophies.. very timeless


    Put people first... and everything else falls in place.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Gordon - Harvey's story is EPIC!

    There's too many coincidence's that have "triggered" much of these conversations, and it seems as if, everything that has been exchanged is actually beginning to shape my beliefs that the universe is OBEYING... I rarely look at the pursuit from that perspective, although my writings are usually more positive.

    The "Toll Plaza" at Brody's level is genius - due to the fact, in building inground pools the guys that dug the pools for new construction would get paid to dig and haul away the dirt... then, they got paid to sell the dirt and dump it at the new location, all one TOLL PLAZA. (*That is much smaller example) - but the same concept.

    Just as Savidge points out "Building a House" - "Order of Operations" and everything becomes synergized - even in the language I feel there is a CODE - a COMMAND of certain words... and I know the metaphors change, but not the inner-meaning (*educo - educate in Latin is to cultivate, nurture, draw out). Finally started to feel like all the hours, books, and studies are VALUABLE - I was seeing from like the Peterson video, the more you learn, the more questions arise, and again, that feeling of being ignorant surfaces (RESISTANCE).

    I am also a fan of the Meditations, Stoics, Marcus, Seneca, Epictetus, and a lot philosophy, really - I listen to lectures from Michael Sugrue @ Princeton (Students pay to go there, I'm learning FREE on YouTube, LOL)

    All who study... it really shows through those here who have already invested in those fields of study... I believe it comes with the territory. Pressfield's - reference to the Hero's Journey, his (9) Muses... Edward Cayce - Akashic records - Napoleon Hill - Conversations with 'Elders of a Gentle Race' - all of these brilliant minds... seem to carry the DESIRE (maybe OBSESSION) to learn but all seek the ROOT, the SEED and then... the RICH SOIL - other people's MINDS. So I truly appreciate learning of Harvey Brody teaching and the students he groomed for success, that is awesome!

    And.. I did something since last year that I NEVER did... I always read and consume massive chunks of information, but never really read too many books. I got booted off FB (a couple times -oops) and made a commitment to "listen to an audiobook" each time - I think to have absorbed about 135 books (formed a new habit) in under 18 months, prior to that one jail sentence - with only maybe 20 books absorbed prior in my life - good ones, but something "clicked" since I listened to all those books... it's shaping something, for sure.

    I just NEED to "Get the Work Done" - Normally, I am a machine when it comes to work, I've spent most of my life pulling 80-100 work weeks, so it's not laziness . I am spending that time writing, designing, and absorbing more content/books/teachings now, just NOT working productively.

    I'll most definitely have more questions... once I process everything already posted. Which again, what a wild amount of knowledge just landed over the last couple months here, even just this week WOW - with what has already been shared - it's all connected... and it is ALL priceless!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Thanks for another insightful post GordonJ.

    My 2C would be ― similar to what savidge4 said ― that without Action, nothing is going to happen. There's more to it than that though ... For example, a Person can take Action all day long, however without having certain Knowledge (etc) ― and having a solid plan ― they will find it much more difficult to succeed. (It's important to work "smart" as they say.)

    Ultimately I think that success is the result of several things. The most important being:

    1. Mindset(s) (And Beliefs etc.)
    2. Education/Knowledge
    3. Action.
    4. Determination/Persistence
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    "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Just to clarify, I think maybe after reading the original post about Brody's "Toll Position" - I may have been "off the mark" after re-examining the manner he manufactured and distributed his product.

    Unlike the example I used, it is brilliant that he found a niche that was probably far more versatile than he intended as it was mentioned he designed the Zoom Spout Oiler for typewriters and they are still flying off shelves today. (*in that small detail alone of someone becoming successful almost by accident, I can think of dozens of examples where something a creator did... served way more purpose than initially expected, like the book; "The War of Art" - as author the Steven Pressfield admitted, he was shocked it helped so many readers outside his intended target audience.

    Something so simple...like a red straw on the WD-40 cans might make all the difference, and if I recall WD-40 wasn't exactly designed for many of the uses it can serve either, it started off in aerospace, and the first 39 formulas ALL FAILED!

    I do understand Savidge's mindset - as many of the contractor's that I sub-contracted for were MACHINES - they NEVER stopped - many were stressed out - divorced - and from my perspective didn't seem ANY happier for their sacrifices of being married to their business. I was qualified in my early-mid 20's to get my state-wide contractors and had the people, money, and the necessary qualifiers to do just that... I saw my employers making damn good money - I decided against that path, based on observing the people I respected in my own industry - mostly all of them were indeed multi-millionaires. (*But, only ONE can I say appeared calm, happy, and had his business and family life balanced... the rest were a mess! - even as a sub-contractor, I was a mess too... 100 hour work weeks will do that to you!)

    Savidge has what I initially thought I WANTED... whereas, I had hoped my wife, son, and daughters would share a vested interest in a FAMILY OWNED & OPERATED BUSINESS... that fizzled my momentum quite a bit, as they ARE NOT wired that way... nothing wrong with that. I see financial suicide in the equation though when I see what many earn annually - even now, as I am reframing my future.

    Having set a goal at age 18 to be semi-retired and financially secure by age 45 (with a 5 year leniency either way) - It kills me, I missed my mark - I'll be 50 in 4 days! - It doesn't mean much to some having plans, goals, or a MOTIVE to do something... I see that in most people, as Earl Nightingale mentioned in his brilliance; "98% of men DO NOT have a clue what they want!" - let alone a financial goal.

    Another perceptive view that may not validate any excuse is, if you do pursue your plan, goals, and have a financial goal and NOBODY in your family, company, or circle of friends (if you even have any real friends outside of work - as I rarely did) - then it forces a choice many would not make to change their circumstances, which would be by nearly every wise suggestion; separate the wheat from the chaff.

    As far as my mistake of saying "Toll Plaza" -VS- "Toll Position" - after rereading Gordon's original post, it dawned on me that Brody's approach was outsource manufacturing on the front end, outsource distribution on the back end, and sit nested in the "sweet spot" collecting HIS CUT without having to be bogged down, burdened, or required to oversee, babysit, or manage many employees, if any at all... that is IMPRESSIVE - and screams total freedom!

    Granted, not many of us here have the capacity to INVENT a product that sustains that type of success.. so, equal respect goes to my old contractors who churned 8-figures per year in a small local business with 10-15 people doing all the heavy lifting (employees and subs) and maybe the few 3rd party B2B people that handled architectural, accounting, fuduciaries, legal, and law related business tasks, etc..

    I observed like a eagle sees its prey... I saw the entire industry in EVERY venture I have ever entered... even here, I see most of what is required to any of a dozen online business and see potential success in almost any one of those ventures...

    The problem I suffer is outsourcing, hiring, firing, managing, and prefer doing the work, not all the other tasks required to make it all come together, which is daunting with learning basic tech, software, and being able to position, present, close, maintain, and follow-up with clients, buyers, customers, etc...

    Finally... had a 2 hour pow-wow with my other half... she pulled out 13 pieces of stone jewelry she bought 6 months ago... she got these items for $5 each (or less) - she researched other sellers already and found people selling the same EXACT items on eBay - and other online stores who are asking $60 to $85 each.... same items.

    Right there - she admitted she bought the stuff because she THOUGHT she could make MONEY online, but when probed - "well I don't have enough inventory yet and if I sell these even for $50 each - it takes up to 6 weeks to order more!"

    Long story short... I soon as my work area is finished (rearranging my environment for WORK mindset) - those items are getting listed... and she agreed to HELP and LEARN to use a portion of the returns to reinvest... and grow from collector of JUNK ITEMS to a SELLER of those pretty things.

    These items have been in the shipping box for 6 months... there's inventory RIGHT THERE!

    I say it all the time... much of what we seek is; "Hidden in Plain Sight" - and I'm going to write with authority (no more hobby) - and help her build that business - cause her new job SUCKS, just like the last one... her words, not mine!
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post


      Granted, not many of us here have the capacity to INVENT a product that sustains that type of success.. so, equal respect goes to my old contractors who churned 8-figures per year in a small local business with 10-15 people doing all the heavy lifting (employees and subs) and maybe the few 3rd party B2B people that handled architectural, accounting, fuduciaries, legal, and law related business tasks, etc..
      The capacity to INVENT, may indeed be limited, but the ability to ACQUIRE, is something anyone can learn to do.

      Recent stories of Musical Artists selling some or all of their catalogs, like Bob Dylan for 300 to 500 MILLION and Neil Young for 150 million, even lesser knowns like David Guetta for 100 million. These are just one form of Intellectual Property (IP) out there.

      And anyone can acquire IP, no inventions needed.

      Also, there is CONTROL, one of my favorite stories is that of a guy in Missouri who had control of a space heater, and signed a contract with a marketing company, who since has sold over a BILLION dollars of the product, and that guy in MO...

      Who did NOT INVENT it,
      only had US distribution rights to it,
      and only with a piece of paper in hand...

      Has collected MILLIONS of dollars in royalties over the years. That is the power of having a real TOLL POSITION.

      Read that again. He had a PIECE OF PAPER. And made millions of dollars.

      Paul Anka ACQUIRED the rights to a little known french song, and rewrote it in English, and it was made famous by Frank Sinatra, and is one of the most recorded songs ever, it is MY WAY. Paul made millions of dollars and got a little ching ching every time someone sang or it was played. He ACQUIRED the IP.

      There are attornies who specialize in IP. Yes Harvey invented the Zoom Spout, but he acquired the pistol grip, which has over 50 million units sold and counting.

      So no one has to invent anything.

      It is an amazing thing to see this "hidden right in front of us" business, and it is multi Billion dollar business at that.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Also, there is CONTROL, one of my favorite stories is that of a guy in Missouri who had control of a space heater, and signed a contract with a marketing company, who since has sold over a BILLION dollars of the product, and that guy in MO...

        Who did NOT INVENT it,
        only had US distribution rights to it,
        and only with a piece of paper in hand...

        Has collected MILLIONS of dollars in royalties over the years. That is the power of having a real TOLL POSITION.

        Read that again. He had a PIECE OF PAPER. And made millions of dollars.
        GordonJ
        The first thing that comes to mind is Michael Gerber's book; "The E Myth" as he referenced Ray Kroc's success franchising the McDonald brothers restaurants...

        Reminded me of a gentleman I knew in my younger years - when I was making my living on a pool table as a younger man.

        The bartender Donna used to call me up to the bar and would slide a wicker basket lined with wax paper - a medium-rare fat cheeseburger - loaded with pickle, tomato, lettuce, and a heaping side of French fries, London vinegar, Ketchup, and an ice cold mug of root beer to wash it all down...

        Whenever I would ask her - "Who ordered this Donna?"

        She would just smile and say; "I think you have a secret admirer"

        Being a skinny kid at 14 years old, I always thought someone at the pub thought I needed to eat more... it drove me nuts not knowing WHO kept buying me those damn cheeseburgers for almost 4 years!!!

        Years later, I revisited that pub - to learn firsthand WHO it was that keep sending me those cheeseburgers, fries, and root beers...

        Turns out, it was a guy named Sonny. He was older Italian guy, practically lived there - he was the owners best friend.

        He called me over to the bar where he and the owner; Angelo sat for years (in front of the snooker table) and the office was just to their left.

        He said; "Where the hell have you been kid, it's been a minute?"

        I stopped going at 17 (almost 18) - as I had gotten a girlfriend, my own place, and didn't have time to be hanging out in bars anymore... "life got in the way" - I told him.

        We talked for a bit and he says to me, "you know Art - I bet you always wondered WHO bought you all those drinks and cheeseburgers, huh?"

        Low and behold, he used to sit at the far back corner of the bar and BET on me... while I was playing for $2 or maybe $5 per rack... he was betting $500 - $1000 on me to win.

        As he told me this, I was like - "WHY the hell didn't you tell me?"

        He responded; "Art, if you had known I had a $1000 riding on you - just knowing - the pressure would've likely have made you choke!" - then he started laughing and said; "I ain't stupid - I didn't want to lose my money betting on you!"

        The point being he told me he made a ton of money quietly betting on me - and the whole time (4 years) he did this... and I NEVER even knew - he was making WAY MORE MONEY than I was running those tables... and he didn't even shoot pool, Angelo did, he was ONE of the best I ever met on the tables. I didn't like playing him, because of the respect I held for him.

        Sonny was right... if I had known back then that he had that kind of money riding on me to win...

        I probably would've choked under the pressure. Those guys (Angelo and Sonny) were actually (2) of my mentors growing up, maybe not your typical teachers, but the owner treated me like family - and that place kept me out of trouble from 14 - 18 years old and allowed me sustain a living from the pub with just a 17oz Adams (2- piece) Bird's Eye Maple pool stick. (*But... I had countless hours invested long before ever stepping foot in that pub).

        So... Sonny and Angelo held the "Toll Position" and they didn't need ANY paper outside of the money they were betting...

        I asked Sonny; "So, did you ever lose money on me?"... and he said; "Of course, a few times, but not nearly as many times I won money!"

        And... no, I wasn't some badass mobster kid or anything special, just earned the respect of the owner the 1st time we met and I asked him if I could shoot pool in his pub. It was called; The Side Pocket's Pub in Pompano Beach, Fl - it's still there, but after Angelo died - it was never the same.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        The capacity to INVENT, may indeed be limited, but the ability to ACQUIRE, is something anyone can learn to do.
        I get what you are saying and totally agree... but I think most have an issue... an issue of scale, meaning the scale of funds to Invest / Acquire a position.

        As I see it there are 3 more easily obtained Toll Positions. I personally deploy the first 2, but the 3rd without question is far more obtainable to the masses.

        #1 Assets; I buy a large format printer. My first printer was $3500 including ink and paper, and it was paid for within the first week of use. From then on, we are talking consumables ( paper and ink ) and labor. That printer becomes a toll position.

        Same would be true with a vinyl cutter... a side story My first vinyl cutter came when I was looking to decal up 4 vehicles... I went to a local service provider and they wanted $300 per vehicle to produce and install the stickers. All fine and dandy... until I saw that I could own the exact same machine, and buy the materials for the cost of 1 vehicle. So after the 1st vehicle, the remaining 3 were free... and again from then on the machine became a Toll Position

        Same would be true with my Greenhouse(s) Once they are built, the rotation of crops being 9 to 16 weeks, there comes a point where the buildings themselves are paid for... Its labor and consumables after that point.

        #2 Knowledge and Systems; I am a website designer. My company can design, program and deploy a Wordpress site in just under 15 hours in total man hours. This is done through my efforts to create a system that can be replicated ( by employees ) I use the same 4 themes - there is no learning curve. I have all manor of layout changes and template pages already coded and done - So there is technically no amount of coding etc done for each build ( its primarily cut and paste ), its already done. So we are left with artwork, changing element colors, taking photos, and adding text - and done We repeat the process 10 times a week - 52 weeks a year at north of $4000 per job on average. MY toll position here, is the system the others follow - the multiplying of my ability to build a site 10X per week.

        #3 Info products, Video, Courses; This is by far the most obtainable across the board. Create any of the listed once, and be it getting paid for views, or selling said product or course... you are only having to the create the single item once, and sell it over and over and over.

        Really pay attention to what GordonJ says time and again... he is working on a hot sheet or report, OR he is updating one. I am only guessing here, but Gordon probably has 100's or Toll positions - that he writes once and collects from then after...he may go back at some time and revise a report or hot sheet, but the investment of time is probably minimal.

        So the creation of a report or Course or whatever is a single investment of time, that is paid 10X 100X 1000X over time.

        There are simply 2 variables in life... TIME and MONEY... do you have $100,000,000 to buy a music catalog? I know I dont... So at the bottom as it were you have to invest the TIME - and save to the point that you can then exchange TIME with MONEY

        My TIME and system building has been exchanged to "Labor" or MONEY
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Truthfully, and only my opinion, WF is not a good fit for a discussion of TOLL positions.

          I only brought it up so as not to derail another Warriors thread.

          But I do want to address one thing, and show how I think, and savidge4 has provided some great fodder. Music catalogs and Art like the PEANUTS cartoon gang, still pulling in millions of dollars a year from licensing, long after Charles Schulz has left his body, are NOT going to be pursued by the likes of Warriors...

          that is true. However, one small part of IP, the Copyright, does have an important part in IM...it is the legal foundation of PLR, a million dollar business.

          Create/acquire IP, OWN it, and license it out.

          THAT can be done by a Warrior.

          So what gold do I see, which if I so choose, in savidge4's post, could I mine?

          Specialty reports and courses, my bread and butter for 35 years.

          I might create a report: How to Start a Large Format Printer Business.

          When I Googled it, saw a lot of Youtube videos, a good sign. A lot of information, but when I searched for it as a Business Opportunity, some franchises came up but what I didn't find was a short, pithy, low cost REPORT on the business.

          So I would write one. (This is an example). Using the Interview technique, as I have done many times in the past, I would contact a savidge4 or someone like him, maybe local...but I would ask if he wanted to joint venture.

          I simply send him 20 questions, he can dictate the answers in like 10 minutes, and there I have my initial four page HOTSHEET on the business. Then I would add graphics, pics, some examples...ask another 5-10 follow up questions and

          have a nice 10 to 12 page report.

          Then, if we so desired, we'd get into the nitty gritty, and from there a lot of different directions to go.

          But, one thing. IMPORTANT. I have to make this simple, easy and without having THE EXPERT, waste or spend too much time. I think a couple of hours spread over two weeks is enough for 80% of all business reports.

          So, I have a BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY PRODUCT (now having a list, that would be my so-called unfair advantage)..but from scratch...probably make a short video for youtube and website, maybe test some Facebook ads, use my sig file at other forums...all low cost ways to TEST the market.

          Now in this case, because I know the market. I could take this concept from a simple little 7 dollar report up to an including a several thousand dollar biz-op franchise LIKE course. Consider it would cost 5 thousand, and you could make 60k your first year...is that a good deal?

          Knowing franchising, that is a great deal. But all along the way there are several IP products one can be developed, and I would OWN them all or have joint ownership with the EXPERT.

          Say the expert wanted to build on this. Create his own NATIONAL LARGE FORMAT PRINTERS ASSOCIATION. Sort of like the International Sign Association. A membership place.

          And whatever I would do with Large Format Printing, I could then, like savidge4 does for his websites...

          Follow my template.

          And create IP for VINYL CUTTING BUSINESS. GREENHOUSE business. And from one guy, without wasting or using up much of his time, and by making it worth his time, I could extract several sustainable reports, courses and money makers which I could SELL for long periods of time. Or license them out.

          See? I did this exact procedure with Bud Riggs of New Mexico a decade ago and we created THE HEADLIGHT CLEANING manual, and sold $10,000.00 in the first few hours it went on the market, and close to 30k in 27 days. Not bad for a small little report.

          One has to position themselves somewhere along a well traveled path or highway, and catch the attention of passerbys and make them offer, one which will greatly benefit them...and then keep reinvesting, without the earn and spend, and it doesn't take long to accumulate some working capital, which can work hard for you.

          Everyday, here at WF, I see potential profits being created out of thin air...for those who want them and go get them.

          GordonJ

          AND OH, these specialty reports, are really not much more than having the EXPERT do what they do...and simply DOCUMENT the process. Easiest gold you will ever mine.

          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          I get what you are saying and totally agree... but I think most have an issue... an issue of scale, meaning the scale of funds to Invest / Acquire a position.

          As I see it there are 3 more easily obtained Toll Positions. I personally deploy the first 2, but the 3rd without question is far more obtainable to the masses.

          #1 Assets; I buy a large format printer. My first printer was $3500 including ink and paper, and it was paid for within the first week of use. From then on, we are talking consumables ( paper and ink ) and labor. That printer becomes a toll position.

          Same would be true with a vinyl cutter... a side story My first vinyl cutter came when I was looking to decal up 4 vehicles... I went to a local service provider and they wanted $300 per vehicle to produce and install the stickers. All fine and dandy... until I saw that I could own the exact same machine, and buy the materials for the cost of 1 vehicle. So after the 1st vehicle, the remaining 3 were free... and again from then on the machine became a Toll Position

          Same would be true with my Greenhouse(s) Once they are built, the rotation of crops being 9 to 16 weeks, there comes a point where the buildings themselves are paid for... Its labor and consumables after that point.

          #2 Knowledge and Systems; I am a website designer. My company can design, program and deploy a Wordpress site in just under 15 hours in total man hours. This is done through my efforts to create a system that can be replicated ( by employees ) I use the same 4 themes - there is no learning curve. I have all manor of layout changes and template pages already coded and done - So there is technically no amount of coding etc done for each build ( its primarily cut and paste ), its already done. So we are left with artwork, changing element colors, taking photos, and adding text - and done We repeat the process 10 times a week - 52 weeks a year at north of $4000 per job on average. MY toll position here, is the system the others follow - the multiplying of my ability to build a site 10X per week.

          #3 Info products, Video, Courses; This is by far the most obtainable across the board. Create any of the listed once, and be it getting paid for views, or selling said product or course... you are only having to the create the single item once, and sell it over and over and over.

          Really pay attention to what GordonJ says time and again... he is working on a hot sheet or report, OR he is updating one. I am only guessing here, but Gordon probably has 100's or Toll positions - that he writes once and collects from then after...he may go back at some time and revise a report or hot sheet, but the investment of time is probably minimal.

          So the creation of a report or Course or whatever is a single investment of time, that is paid 10X 100X 1000X over time.

          There are simply 2 variables in life... TIME and MONEY... do you have $100,000,000 to buy a music catalog? I know I dont... So at the bottom as it were you have to invest the TIME - and save to the point that you can then exchange TIME with MONEY

          My TIME and system building has been exchanged to "Labor" or MONEY
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            But I do want to address one thing, and show how I think, and savidge4 has provided some great fodder.
            It was a bump set spike post KNOWING you would hit it out of the park... GREAT POST!
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            To add something of a "Mindset" (from John Templeton ― Investor and Philanthropist ― who gave over $1 Billion to Charitable causes) ...

            "We have a choice. We can live in the past and be miserable and unhappy, or we can pick ourselves up and move ahead in life. When we choose to focus forward, we can find the energy and ability to remove any obstacles that may appear to be hindering our smooth progression. If you take stock of yourself and find you may be spending time frequently reliving unhappy experiences of the past, make the decision to rid yourself of the ties that bind you to a former way of life."
            Thoughts?

            [Added=] I know that kind of seems "off-topic" ... However I think for some People their past experiences are kind of preventing them from being successful Entrepreneurs. (Or maybe not as successful as they could be.) Anyway, the Mindset would be something like:

            "Don't let the past hold you back ― learn something from it ― and find the strength and courage to make your Dreams a reality."
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              To add something of a "Mindset" (from John Templeton ― Investor and Philanthropist ― who gave over $1 Billion to Charitable causes) ...


              "We have a choice. We can live in the past and be miserable and unhappy, or we can pick ourselves up and move ahead in life. When we choose to focus forward, we can find the energy and ability to remove any obstacles that may appear to be hindering our smooth progression. If you take stock of yourself and find you may be spending time frequently reliving unhappy experiences of the past, make the decision to rid yourself of the ties that bind you to a former way of life."

              Thoughts?
              Of course, he isn't wrong. But the WE view comes from a different perspective.

              WE can. But we don't. Taking stock of yourself is the hard part. Anyone who has started a New Years diet and or several of them, knows, it isn't as simple as just focusing forward.

              Making the decision to rid yourself of the ties that bind you to a former way of life...is much easier said than done. As we have recently discussed here, habits, thoughts and self-image are deeply ingrained concepts.

              If that is all that it took, just to say, "I now forget my past, I focus only on my future, I find the energy and abiltiy to achieve my goals." Then we would be a nation of healthy, fit, loving, caring, sharing human beans.

              It is a positive idea. A good concept. CAN'T ARGUE with its wisdom. Just not very practical advice, from a billionaire or a bum on the street. We just can't forgetta bout it.

              It takes work, time and effort.

              GordonJ
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                If that is all that it took, just to say, "I now forget my past, I focus only on my future, I find the energy and ability to achieve my goals." Then we would be a nation of healthy, fit, loving, caring, sharing human beans.
                Lol Good point GordonJ. (I just added a "Mindset" to my post above.) That could possibly be helpful. I agree though ― "Affirmations" have their place, however they don't solve everything.

                P.S.
                I think what makes the difference is: Conviction. (Definition= "A firmly held belief or opinion.")
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              We can live in the past and be miserable and unhappy
              Im going to add to this because I dont think it is so accurate.

              We can live in the past and be miserable and unhappy - or we can live in the present and be happy

              All the affirmations in the world are of no use if you are living and breathing "unhappy"

              Look at your physical surroundings... look at the people closest to you... its a reflection of who and what you are NOW... and most people will without hesitation admit, they are surrounded by unhappy.

              You need to remove the unhappy from your life - at just short of at any cost - BUT in doing so understand that you need to be transitioning to HAPPY, and not repeating all of the same unhappy behaviors and issues
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                Im going to add to this because I dont think it is so accurate.

                We can live in the past and be miserable and unhappy - or we can live in the present and be happy

                All the affirmations in the world are of no use if you are living and breathing "unhappy"

                Look at your physical surroundings... look at the people closest to you... its a reflection of who and what you are NOW... and most people will without hesitation admit, they are surrounded by unhappy.

                You need to remove the unhappy from your life - at just short of at any cost - BUT in doing so understand that you need to be transitioning to HAPPY, and not repeating all of the same unhappy behaviours and issues
                Interesting: Thanks savidge4. My experience with being "unhappy" (actually depressed and suicidal) ... Is something a Person can always control is:

                Their thoughts.

                Seriously. Part of the solution is to start thinking more positive and empowering thoughts. (Including "Mindsets" etc. if you like.) Something I learned from James Allen ["As A Man Thinketh"] is: "A person cannot directly choose their circumstances, but they can choose their thoughts ― and so indirectly, yet surely, shape their circumstances." I couldn't change developing Mental Illness ... However I could control my thoughts (etc.)

                And Napoleon Hill ["Think And Grow Rich"] said: "Every man is what he is because of the dominating thoughts which he permits to occupy his mind."

                Many People don't understand/realize how powerful thoughts can be.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Finally... had a 2 hour pow-wow with my other half... she pulled out 13 pieces of stone jewelry she bought 6 months ago... she got these items for $5 each (or less) - she researched other sellers already and found people selling the same EXACT items on eBay - and other online stores who are asking $60 to $85 each.... same items.

      Right there - she admitted she bought the stuff because she THOUGHT she could make MONEY online, but when probed - "well I don't have enough inventory yet and if I sell these even for $50 each - it takes up to 6 weeks to order more!"

      Long story short... I soon as my work area is finished (rearranging my environment for WORK mindset) - those items are getting listed... and she agreed to HELP and LEARN to use a portion of the returns to reinvest... and grow from collector of JUNK ITEMS to a SELLER of those pretty things.

      These items have been in the shipping box for 6 months... there's inventory RIGHT THERE!

      I say it all the time... much of what we seek is; "Hidden in Plain Sight" - and I'm going to write with authority (no more hobby) - and help her build that business - cause her new job SUCKS, just like the last one... her words, not mine!
      Off topic... per se... but I think this needed to be addressed - Because THIS is part of the "Shift" we talkk about. In BOLD "and she agreed to HELP and LEARN to use a portion of the returns to reinvest" THIS.. THIS right here is the paycheck mindset - THIS is the pattern that needs to be broken... Make it, Spend it.

      If you read the eBay thread... I know its in there a post on after a year ( couldnt find it ) My son and I ended up with 6 digits in a bank account - ALL of that being from the initial $40 investment. So if we look atmy sons current store.. he sells mugs and China and tea cups etc.. we have settled on a rolling inventory budget of $3000.00 Meaning his business account as a -0- ( zero ) is $3000.00 And that is for the purchase of inventory as needed. Anything above and beyond that $3000 is then "Profit" before taxes etc.

      The flip side of that is my Wifes operation that has a Rolling -0- of $50,000 - and there have been times we have invested more than that all at once.

      So you need to look at having an item that costs $5.00 and sells for $50.. and you have 13 of them... sell all 13 and you have $650 do you spend all but $65 and buy 13 more.. or do you invest the entire $650 and keep the lame job knowing you are building something that over time will replace that?

      Do the math here real quick 13x$5 is a $75 investment that returns $650 and we will say in a months time. The you take the $650 and buy 130 pieces of jewelry and turn that to $6500 3 months later.. and ONE MORE time and you are in the $65,000 area. Its at this point you can create a rolling -0- of say $10K and you now have $55,000 of working capital - and all of this in less than a year... push that over the year and you might hit 6 digits in a bank account yourself...

      Stay in the struggle in the short term.. because on the back end of 1 year, you will have amassed a 10 year expenditures buffer? life gets super easy at that point.. definitely less stressful - BUT if you spend it as fast as you get it... you simply stay in the grind. 1 year and $75 to start and you end up at a point of financial independence - and spend 2 hours a day for 365 days - not much to ask.

      I cant say this loud enough... keep the crappy job... break the paycheck pattern. You have suffered this long... whats 1 more year?
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Savage

    In your greenhouses what percent of the greenhouse is growing space and how much do you gross pers square foot of growing area. And do you have a sweet spot or preferred amount square footage to build a greenhouse. I'm interested in the environmental control you prefer as you build super energy efficient building.

    Greenhouses and indoor growing of food is the thing I have the most interest in getting into from this point.


    This thread is already packed with great information. Thank you both Gordon and savage
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Savage

      In your greenhouses what percent of the greenhouse is growing space and how much do you gross pers square foot of growing area. And do you have a sweet spot or preferred amount square footage to build a greenhouse. I'm interested in the environmental control you prefer as you build super energy efficient building.

      Greenhouses and indoor growing of food is the thing I have the most interest in getting into from this point.


      This thread is already packed with great information. Thank you both Gordon and savage
      I have implemented a hydro setup. Basically a 4 inch pipe with holes every 6" on center. I also have a few that are water beds for micros and the like.

      So the greenhouses themselves are 16 x 50 each "Pod" is a center building and a greenhouse to the left and right. The center is used to propagate and process, and the greenhouse floors are growing and growing only.

      The water beds have a 2' space around all sides and are 5x9, 10 beds per building with 3 rows of additional pipe beds above. We just recently installed a rotisserie style waterbed that will about triple our overall bed sq footage

      The pipe system is 3 racks and 9 layers 21 ft long x2 so in 800 sq we can produce 1134 heads of lettuce every 16 weeks -

      We have been developing / engineering a rotisserie pipe system that could double production - but hoses and inflow / outflow waterflow in rotation is a bit of a chore

      A total of 8 pods giving us a complete growing cycle rotation is producing about $8000 per week ( this does not include the water bed pods that have pipe beds as well ) - just over $400,000 per year.. and the cost to build was right at 7 digits... and the operational side other than labor and seeds is Net Negative at this point. With labor and seeds the building will be at 100% return of investment right under the 5 year mark.

      To give you a better idea we are growing I believe 8 varieties in total - in the summer months that goes up to 12 varieties.

      Our water beds have crops that are anywhere from 9 days to 4 weeks, and the turnover is obviously quicker and produces far greater income, as in ROI was had in just over 2 yrs. BUT those are more labor intensive.

      So labor...Im obviously not running a one man show here...3 full time employees and 6 interns - and the interns with a State program cost me $1.00 per hour. The State pays the remaining and the individuals are from college horticulture programs. as A side note.. I pay these folks a cash "Bonus" every week as well - money just falls out of my pocket on the floor or something - no wonder I dont carry cash with me LOL

      Basically, AT SCALE and understanding grow cycles and rotation it is a very consistent cash flow. If you are starting out and have 8 beds.. you DONT want to be planting them all at once... because then you will only have product to sell every X amount of days or weeks... vs weekly or in some cases daily. People will buy 2 heads of lettuce a week- EVERY week... like they will buy an assortment of micro greens twice a week, every week.

      If I didnt give it away... i ditched the wholesale selling avenue and went full retail. Just the expense of delivery, vs operating a location was a no brainer.

      Environmentals; in floor radiant heating / cooling ( cooling in the summer months to bring the temp down at night for optimal growth ) and this is done with geothermal units that is solar powered.

      The water is naturally PH balanced with the use of fish and live plants in a holding pond. There are a couple of crops that need added PH and those have in pod tanks with added fish - so no chemicals what so ever

      All of the pumps the lights and whatever else is solar as well - the onsite vehicles are electric ( solar charged ) AND we provide excess power to the grid - NET Negative

      That answer everything?
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Expect to see some W.V. weekend, week long hands on experiences.

        Like this guy does
        https://www.tinyhomebuilders.com/tin...shops/hands-on

        Offer a weekend retreat, hands on experience, a discount on a kit to take home (delivered) and it would attract people from hundreds of miles.

        Tiny houses.
        Tiny greenhouses.
        Growing.
        The business of. ETC., etc., etc and so on. Thousands of people a year paying some pretty big prices to get in one of these hands on workshops and training gigs.

        Wouldn't take much, would it?

        GordonJ

        With a backend of kits, support via memberships/organization and more information products, doing what you already do, taking a couple of weekends a year to SHARE that with others. YIKES.

        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I have implemented a hydro setup. Basically a 4 inch pipe with holes every 6" on center. I also have a few that are water beds for micros and the like.

        So the greenhouses themselves are 16 x 50 each "Pod" is a center building and a greenhouse to the left and right. The center is used to propagate and process, and the greenhouse floors are growing and growing only.

        The water beds have a 2' space around all sides and are 5x9, 10 beds per building with 3 rows of additional pipe beds above. We just recently installed a rotisserie style waterbed that will about triple our overall bed sq footage

        The pipe system is 3 racks and 9 layers 21 ft long x2 so in 800 sq we can produce 1134 heads of lettuce every 16 weeks -

        We have been developing / engineering a rotisserie pipe system that could double production - but hoses and inflow / outflow waterflow in rotation is a bit of a chore

        A total of 8 pods giving us a complete growing cycle rotation is producing about $8000 per week ( this does not include the water bed pods that have pipe beds as well ) - just over $400,000 per year.. and the cost to build was right at 7 digits... and the operational side other than labor and seeds is Net Negative at this point. With labor and seeds the building will be at 100% return of investment right under the 5 year mark.

        To give you a better idea we are growing I believe 8 varieties in total - in the summer months that goes up to 12 varieties.

        Our water beds have crops that are anywhere from 9 days to 4 weeks, and the turnover is obviously quicker and produces far greater income, as in ROI was had in just over 2 yrs. BUT those are more labor intensive.

        So labor...Im obviously not running a one man show here...3 full time employees and 6 interns - and the interns with a State program cost me $1.00 per hour. The State pays the remaining and the individuals are from college horticulture programs. as A side note.. I pay these folks a cash "Bonus" every week as well - money just falls out of my pocket on the floor or something - no wonder I dont carry cash with me LOL

        Basically, AT SCALE and understanding grow cycles and rotation it is a very consistent cash flow. If you are starting out and have 8 beds.. you DONT want to be planting them all at once... because then you will only have product to sell every X amount of days or weeks... vs weekly or in some cases daily. People will buy 2 heads of lettuce a week- EVERY week... like they will buy an assortment of micro greens twice a week, every week.

        If I didnt give it away... i ditched the wholesale selling avenue and went full retail. Just the expense of delivery, vs operating a location was a no brainer.

        Environmentals; in floor radiant heating / cooling ( cooling in the summer months to bring the temp down at night for optimal growth ) and this is done with geothermal units that is solar powered.

        The water is naturally PH balanced with the use of fish and live plants in a holding pond. There are a couple of crops that need added PH and those have in pod tanks with added fish - so no chemicals what so ever

        All of the pumps the lights and whatever else is solar as well - the onsite vehicles are electric ( solar charged ) AND we provide excess power to the grid - NET Negative

        That answer everything?
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          Expect to see some W.V. weekend, week long hands on experiences.

          Like this guy does
          https://www.tinyhomebuilders.com/tin...shops/hands-on

          Offer a weekend retreat, hands on experience, a discount on a kit to take home (delivered) and it would attract people from hundreds of miles.

          Tiny houses.
          Tiny greenhouses.
          Growing.
          The business of. ETC., etc., etc and so on. Thousands of people a year paying some pretty big prices to get in one of these hands on workshops and training gigs.

          Wouldn't take much, would it?

          GordonJ

          With a backend of kits, support via memberships/organization and more information products, doing what you already do, taking a couple of weekends a year to SHARE that with others. YIKES.
          Have I thought about this? well of course I have. A couple of years ago I actually started website "retreats"... and then things happened?!?!

          My primary issue is #1 time, and #2 my fundamental philosophy of business.

          Ill start with #2.. you have read it before, Anyone can start a business, FEW can GROW a business... and this is the aspect of business I think I am best at.. I eluded to a point of grown above with multiplying growing space... Growth with a green house is not overly growth ( love the pun ) friendly. My overall philosophy is steady and consistent growth month in month out, year in year out... we will call it "Farming", and farming is just short of anything other than my ideal business model.

          I am in no way calling the endeavor a "Failure", but I will say the business is not so much my cup of tea - in terms of my want, need, desire to GROW a business.

          I can exponentially grow my Printing business... I can exponentially grow my Website business, I can exponentially grow CRO, or my new CNC woodworking business - without the investment of cash to physically grow the business ( if that makes sense? ). I can add an employee and gain 10 - 20%.

          With the greenhouse There is only so much space, Lettuce as an example takes 16 weeks - it is what it is - I COULD juice things and get to 14 weeks - but its no longer "Organic" in doing so... and it simply is not so environmentally friendly... adds expense and in the end would leave me with saving 1/8 in TIME. but costing 20% overall in reduce price and chemical and treatment costs.

          So I am left with a flat lined business with the only potential for growth being physically making the operation bigger... and I will probably do this... double its size overall - actually just broke ground today on phase 4 of 6 that is currently laid out and planned for.

          So back to #1... I have always been involved with my client base... seminars and what we call "Lab Time" where they can come in and have the use of my staff and facilities to produce content or learn finer points of skills that in the end allows the services we provide to work better.

          We started to expand this outside of our client base at a cost, and like i said things happened and groups of people indoors was just not a good idea. So that TIME was replaced. Its right at 1:30 in the morning, and I started at 8am ( like I do every day ) I just do not have the time... and to be honest... its hard to justify the cash flow vs where I am at right now.

          Having said that... is the overall idea a good one? OH YES - without question. If you are a entrepreneur that does 1 thing.. then creating / building the type of business model you suggest is ABSOLUTELY a sure fire method to greater success and overall business expansion... for someone like me that is a SERIAL entrepreneur - I can only have so many marshmallows over the fire.
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Good thing, you have many marshmallows in the fire, unlike many Warriors who don't even have ONE, yet...

            And this goes to my point of the thread, it all goes to what we want. You love your employees, they are your family and friends.

            Others, like me, would rather not have any around. Two big takeaways from this post are your exponential growth...wonder if that 10-20% could be done without the employee, but with tools, software, or economies? Don't know, bet you do though?

            An Entrepreneur with ONE thing, although within the one thing, there can be many things...take publishing, it is all the same thing, but what one publishes can be a wide variety of products with different markets and different strategies too. You are a true serial, locally my fav was a man, Ed Barr, who had restaurants, gift stores, an oil company, a stable, a golf course, and real estate.

            I envy you guys, but at the same time, you all exhaust me.

            What is so appealing here at WF is the one thing, Internet Marketing, with all the many tentacles which come with it can become an unruly monster we create, or a very simple cash machine without much attention to it.

            During the Covid dark days, these get togethers and hands on came to a standstill, now making a comeback, but the VIDEO conference, video training, all things remote boomed so a one woman band can bank on her expertise that way too.

            There is an old saying, if you want something done fast, give it to the busiest man...and you are proof of having several balls in the air and being comfortable with that life.

            Most of us just want to bounce one ball in place, and keep it bouncing.

            And most businesses should be in a planned growth cycle, or they are in the Shawshank shadow, either growing or dying.

            Thanks for sharing.

            GordonJ


            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Have I thought about this? well of course I have. A couple of years ago I actually started website "retreats"... and then things happened?!?!

            My primary issue is #1 time, and #2 my fundamental philosophy of business.

            Ill start with #2.. you have read it before, Anyone can start a business, FEW can GROW a business... and this is the aspect of business I think I am best at.. I eluded to a point of grown above with multiplying growing space... Growth with a green house is not overly growth ( love the pun ) friendly. My overall philosophy is steady and consistent growth month in month out, year in year out... we will call it "Farming", and farming is just short of anything other than my ideal business model.

            I am in no way calling the endeavor a "Failure", but I will say the business is not so much my cup of tea - in terms of my want, need, desire to GROW a business.

            I can exponentially grow my Printing business... I can exponentially grow my Website business, I can exponentially grow CRO, or my new CNC woodworking business - without the investment of cash to physically grow the business ( if that makes sense? ). I can add an employee and gain 10 - 20%.

            With the greenhouse There is only so much space, Lettuce as an example takes 16 weeks - it is what it is - I COULD juice things and get to 14 weeks - but its no longer "Organic" in doing so... and it simply is not so environmentally friendly... adds expense and in the end would leave me with saving 1/8 in TIME. but costing 20% overall in reduce price and chemical and treatment costs.

            So I am left with a flat lined business with the only potential for growth being physically making the operation bigger... and I will probably do this... double its size overall - actually just broke ground today on phase 4 of 6 that is currently laid out and planned for.

            So back to #1... I have always been involved with my client base... seminars and what we call "Lab Time" where they can come in and have the use of my staff and facilities to produce content or learn finer points of skills that in the end allows the services we provide to work better.

            We started to expand this outside of our client base at a cost, and like i said things happened and groups of people indoors was just not a good idea. So that TIME was replaced. Its right at 1:30 in the morning, and I started at 8am ( like I do every day ) I just do not have the time... and to be honest... its hard to justify the cash flow vs where I am at right now.

            Having said that... is the overall idea a good one? OH YES - without question. If you are a entrepreneur that does 1 thing.. then creating / building the type of business model you suggest is ABSOLUTELY a sure fire method to greater success and overall business expansion... for someone like me that is a SERIAL entrepreneur - I can only have so many marshmallows over the fire.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Savage

    Thank you. I like the use of a fish pond as the water source. Not an aquponic system but partly.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Savage

      Thank you. I like the use of a fish pond as the water source. Not an aquponic system but partly.
      I do both, the beds are aquaponic, and the tubes are hydroponic.

      Something like this ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/28379713203...xoCNloQAvD_BwE ) I could easily buy the materials where I live including the pump and container and pipes for less than $100.00 - throw in some water lilies, Koi and snails and you are so on your way.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I do both, the beds are aquaponic, and the tubes are hydroponic.

        Something like this ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/28379713203...xoCNloQAvD_BwE ) I could easily buy the materials where I live including the pump and container and pipes for less than $100.00 - throw in some water lilies, Koi and snails and you are so on your way.
        At the mention of koi . How practical is a koi breeding business to go along with the green s production from a aquaponic system. Is it practical for a one person operation.

        I was looking at growing mushrooms and a vermicomposting business . But I was never interested in selling worms. But feeding them to koi as free feed. And still having the worm compost and tea to sell.

        The process of building this all out starting from nothing will be something to document.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          I would bet that five years from now, you will not have documented anything about this.

          Just saying, I'd wager on it. It will never be a real life experience for you.

          Nothing personal, just going by your Warrior forum history.

          GordonJ

          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          At the mention of koi . How practical is a koi breeding business to go along with the green s production from a aquaponic system. Is it practical for a one person operation.

          I was looking at growing mushrooms and a vermicomposting business . But I was never interested in selling worms. But feeding them to koi as free feed. And still having the worm compost and tea to sell.

          The process of building this all out starting from nothing will be something to document.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


    Harvey Brody, the marketer, lives in S. CA, Orange county. He has 67 years of continuous success, and as of last week, he told me he was still going strong and is excited about his opportunities.

    Allow me to give a brief history, and then I'll share some of his secrets, and I can do that because outside of his family, I probably have had the most contact with him and I have over 30 hours of audios I recorded over a several year period.
    After looking everywhere I could think of for Harvey Brody's course...I can't find it anywhere. Do you have a source?





    I did find this article on The Toll Position by Dan Kennedy. I hope someone gets something out of it.


    The Money Making Secret of "The Toll Booth Position

    I'm a marketing consultant and at one of my client-companies, a company that, in less than 10 years, has gone from a $10 million to a $100 million dollar business one of the people I work with frequently has jokingly given herself the title, 'Vice President, Back-End.'

    Although that clearly opens her up to be the butt of many jokes, it does very accurately describe her very, very important area of responsibility, in direct marketing parlance. At least 80% of the company's profitability depends on her contributions.

    If the term "back-end" is new to you, it means everything you sell your customers after their initial purchase (that first order is called the "front-end"). For instance, let's say you sell instructional video tapes to golfers on how to play better. You advertise in golf magazines and your lead product is a $25 video on putting strategies. That's your "front-end" because that's what people buy first. But then once people purchase that first video, you send them a catalog offering them over 50 other golf videos ranging in price from $50 to $99. Those follow-on videos are your "back-end."

    In many businesses, there is a relatively brief period of time during which there are significant, exciting profits on the front-end, that is the very first sale to a customer.

    But that happy situation dissolves over time, as you "cream" the market. And, as you go deeper and deeper into a market, the cost of making the first sale (acquiring a customer) goes up and up. For instance, in the above example of the golf videos the first time you run a magazine ad you might pull 100 orders. But if you keep running it every month, your order volume will probably drop off steadily. Within six months, you'd be lucky to be selling 30 videos from the same ad in the same magazine. As some point, it gets so high it is no longer practical to advertise and sell that product to that market.

    Nothing is forever. This fact of life is what mandates being smart about making all the money that you can from the back-end.

    The good news is that your satisfied customers are probably willing to buy other things from you -- and they don't even have to be your own products/services. You can make deals with other companies to offer their products/services to your customers in exchange for a piece of the action.

    For instance, let's go back to our example of the golf video company. You might do a "joint venture" with a manufacturer of special golf clubs which sell for $1,500 a set. You'll mail a letter to your customers telling them how well these clubs will improve their golf game and you'll get $750 on each order placed. If your customers trust you, they'll be much more likely to respond to your letter than they would be if the golf club manufacturer mailed to them directly.

    Of course you only want to recommend high-quality products and services which will be of value to your customers. But you get the idea. You could make similar deals with other companies who sell what golfers want -- golf apparel, golf trip and excursion operators, even custom home builders who sell houses near golf courses. They'd all happily pay you a 'toll' commission to sell their wares to your customers.

    No matter what your business, one of the most valuable assets you have is a list of satisfied customer, predisposed to buy from you again. When you control a sizable list of customers who bought from you, know your name/business name, are happy with what they bought and with the ensuing relationship ... and are pre-disposed to read your mail and buy from you again, it's like owning your own "toll booth."

    A pioneer of direct marketing, Harvey Brody, taught me the power and value of getting into "The Toll Booth Position" and I've been teaching it for years. Imagine owning your own toll booth on the highway near your city. Anybody who wants to get to the other side of that toll booth has to pass through its gates and pay you money.

    As the controller of a responsive customer list, that's exactly where you are; sitting there in your own toll booth and anybody who wants to get their appropriate product or service to those customers you control, has to pay you money.

    You can collect a toll through joint ventures, as described above wherein you do an endorsed mailing to your customers and get a piece of all sales that result.

    Or, if you build a list of 50,000 or more, through outright lists rentals. I have a number of clients who pay all their overhead expenses every year just with the checks they get from the list broker representing their list to others.

    I have often paid others to pass through their toll booths ---and done so cheerfully. I have also been paid by others eager to get through my toll booth, to my customers, with my endorsement.

    In the direct marketing business, it's a well-known fact that most of the profits is derived from back-end sales to existing customers. Yet outside that business, I rarely encounter a company which comes anywhere close to tapping the potential of establishing their own "toll booth position." Get started building yours right now and start charging others to go down your road.

    Dan Kennedy is a marketing consultant and copywriter who helps entrepreneurs cut waste out of advertising, end cold prospecting, sell at prices higher than competitors and dramatically increase profits.The author of "No B.S. Business Success" and other books, as a speaker he has frequently appeared on programs with former U.S. Presidents, General Colin Powell, Larry King, Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy and Jim Rohn. For info on his monthly "No B.S. Marketing Letter" go to [http://www.DanKennedyLetter.com]


    Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/3262
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      After a quick meeting at the airport, Havey said Dan looked bad, short time later Dan died...well, he came close, but then he made a comeback. I guess Dan loved to travel and spend most of his work time going or coming from somewhere...the rest of the time, probably at the track.

      Once in awhile, eBay will have some courses...I think there is one as of today, on Patents. The CONCEPT STRATEGY sold for 300.00, and his financial freedom course usually lists around the same.

      I think eBay is the best bet, once in awhile one of his grandsons might post something there from the warehouse, but not very often.

      Similar content is found in Sherman Hunter's work found at
      https://sdkhunter.com/ Sherman Hunter and Harvey Brody were partners in the publishing business for over a decade.

      Also, Joe Cossman's stuff, especially the 86 Infomercial, Guthy/Renker, with the little suitcase. Can be seen at youtube.

      All very similar material on Toll positions. Considering Harvey worked with Cossman and Hunter both, there is a lot of crossover but each brings his own experiences with them. If

      The SDK site has some great promotional stuff which rings of Brody/Cossman type pitches.

      If I see any, I'll follow up. Thanks for asking.

      GordonJ
      P.S. Sherman Hunter does a podcast, CORNUCOPIA, his latest was on March 31 of 2022. Links at SDK.

      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      After looking everywhere I could think of for Harvey Brody's course...I can't find it anywhere. Do you have a source?

      Glad to see Dan gave credit where it was due too.






      I did find this article on The Toll Position by Dan Kennedy. I hope someone gets something out of it.


      The Money Making Secret of "The Toll Booth Position

      I'm a marketing consultant and at one of my client-companies, a company that, in less than 10 years, has gone from a $10 million to a $100 million dollar business one of the people I work with frequently has jokingly given herself the title, 'Vice President, Back-End.'

      Although that clearly opens her up to be the butt of many jokes, it does very accurately describe her very, very important area of responsibility, in direct marketing parlance. At least 80% of the company's profitability depends on her contributions.

      If the term "back-end" is new to you, it means everything you sell your customers after their initial purchase (that first order is called the "front-end"). For instance, let's say you sell instructional video tapes to golfers on how to play better. You advertise in golf magazines and your lead product is a $25 video on putting strategies. That's your "front-end" because that's what people buy first. But then once people purchase that first video, you send them a catalog offering them over 50 other golf videos ranging in price from $50 to $99. Those follow-on videos are your "back-end."

      In many businesses, there is a relatively brief period of time during which there are significant, exciting profits on the front-end, that is the very first sale to a customer.

      But that happy situation dissolves over time, as you "cream" the market. And, as you go deeper and deeper into a market, the cost of making the first sale (acquiring a customer) goes up and up. For instance, in the above example of the golf videos the first time you run a magazine ad you might pull 100 orders. But if you keep running it every month, your order volume will probably drop off steadily. Within six months, you'd be lucky to be selling 30 videos from the same ad in the same magazine. As some point, it gets so high it is no longer practical to advertise and sell that product to that market.

      Nothing is forever. This fact of life is what mandates being smart about making all the money that you can from the back-end.

      The good news is that your satisfied customers are probably willing to buy other things from you -- and they don't even have to be your own products/services. You can make deals with other companies to offer their products/services to your customers in exchange for a piece of the action.

      For instance, let's go back to our example of the golf video company. You might do a "joint venture" with a manufacturer of special golf clubs which sell for $1,500 a set. You'll mail a letter to your customers telling them how well these clubs will improve their golf game and you'll get $750 on each order placed. If your customers trust you, they'll be much more likely to respond to your letter than they would be if the golf club manufacturer mailed to them directly.

      Of course you only want to recommend high-quality products and services which will be of value to your customers. But you get the idea. You could make similar deals with other companies who sell what golfers want -- golf apparel, golf trip and excursion operators, even custom home builders who sell houses near golf courses. They'd all happily pay you a 'toll' commission to sell their wares to your customers.

      No matter what your business, one of the most valuable assets you have is a list of satisfied customer, predisposed to buy from you again. When you control a sizable list of customers who bought from you, know your name/business name, are happy with what they bought and with the ensuing relationship ... and are pre-disposed to read your mail and buy from you again, it's like owning your own "toll booth."

      A pioneer of direct marketing, Harvey Brody, taught me the power and value of getting into "The Toll Booth Position" and I've been teaching it for years. Imagine owning your own toll booth on the highway near your city. Anybody who wants to get to the other side of that toll booth has to pass through its gates and pay you money.

      As the controller of a responsive customer list, that's exactly where you are; sitting there in your own toll booth and anybody who wants to get their appropriate product or service to those customers you control, has to pay you money.

      You can collect a toll through joint ventures, as described above wherein you do an endorsed mailing to your customers and get a piece of all sales that result.

      Or, if you build a list of 50,000 or more, through outright lists rentals. I have a number of clients who pay all their overhead expenses every year just with the checks they get from the list broker representing their list to others.

      I have often paid others to pass through their toll booths ---and done so cheerfully. I have also been paid by others eager to get through my toll booth, to my customers, with my endorsement.

      In the direct marketing business, it's a well-known fact that most of the profits is derived from back-end sales to existing customers. Yet outside that business, I rarely encounter a company which comes anywhere close to tapping the potential of establishing their own "toll booth position." Get started building yours right now and start charging others to go down your road.

      Dan Kennedy is a marketing consultant and copywriter who helps entrepreneurs cut waste out of advertising, end cold prospecting, sell at prices higher than competitors and dramatically increase profits.The author of "No B.S. Business Success" and other books, as a speaker he has frequently appeared on programs with former U.S. Presidents, General Colin Powell, Larry King, Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy and Jim Rohn. For info on his monthly "No B.S. Marketing Letter" go to [http://www.DanKennedyLetter.com]


      Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/3262
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    This thread is turning into one of the most valuable threads I have ever read on this forum. Savage may have accidentally pointed me at a business I want to get in.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Savage may have accidentally pointed me at a business I want to get in.
      There is a God!!!!!! hahaha

      PS There are no accidents
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    What i see in thread after thread are quotes by 'famous' or 'motivational' people....discussions of how to think and how to prepare...future plans and more future plans. There is nothing wrong with that if that's what you do as long as you recognized THAT is what you do.


    The 'formula' for succeeding in almost anything seems simple to me....decide what you want and do what it takes to get it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      The 'formula' for succeeding in almost anything seems simple to me....decide what you want and do what it takes to get it.
      Absolutely: Well said Kay. : )

      [Added=]
      From my personal experience ... The greater the struggle/challenge ... The greater the success. Don't get me wrong ― no one has it easy in Life ― however I honestly believe that no matter how great the challenge, a Person can always ― learn something ― and overcome it.
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      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      What i see in thread after thread are quotes by 'famous' or 'motivational' people....discussions of how to think and how to prepare...future plans and more future plans. There is nothing wrong with that if that's what you do as long as you recognized THAT is what you do.


      The 'formula' for succeeding in almost anything seems simple to me....decide what you want and do what it takes to get it.
      That's it, Mic drop please. DECIDE what you want, DO what it takes to get it.

      Could not agree anymore.

      Yet, we have thousands here at WF, who have yet to decide. Why?

      Could be people don't know what they want, or why they want it? Probably.

      When prople desire something, their attention gets focused in on it.

      There is a ton of anecdotal evidence, THIS formula has worked for many of todays mavens of business, and the arts. Will Smith (prior the slap) was an example of studying and executing his desire to get what he wanted.

      He reduced movie making to a formula and repeated it over and over. In fact this thread is exactly about that...the DOING part of it.

      Well, a psycholgical mine field of rabbit holes re: why people don't know what they want...and even if they do, don't know what to DO to get it. Pretty much the whole industry of self-help and a lot of personal development is targeted toward those who are not doing what they want.

      So, I absolutely agree, Square ONE is deciding what you want.

      The rest is movement and adjustment in the direction of that want.

      It IS simple, but apparently not easy and the WF would be reduced to simple Warrior Path forum if they all knew what they wanted.

      As for THAT being what we do, life doesn't stop during the planning, if anything, today is just a checkpoint from the past, and a compass point for the future. As we see by the many Warriors having been here years...without having DONE anything. Why is that?

      Did their decision fall by the wayside? Their wants change? Did DOING whatever wear them out?

      I believe it is a simple as this formula states. For a few.

      And it is hard to understand why most, the majority I would guess, just don't follow it?

      Goes back to making things, including lives, more complicated.

      GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      What i see in thread after thread are quotes by 'famous' or 'motivational' people....discussions of how to think and how to prepare...future plans and more future plans. There is nothing wrong with that if that's what you do as long as you recognized THAT is what you do.


      The 'formula' for succeeding in almost anything seems simple to me....decide what you want and do what it takes to get it.
      As a long time admirer of this forum, I can honestly say; I've spent so much time studying what other people WANT - I think to have lost focus on what I want. In stepping back and asking: "What do I want?"

      It can definitely be difficult to answer.

      I'm usually the one asking the wife, the kids, the client, contractor, or someone else what they want... and then trying to provide for their needs or wants.

      Being a "service provider" for most of my life - I definitely believe that could be a HUGE factor WHY many here (*myself included) have not pursued a REAL EFFORT in making the transition to online marketing or internet based business models.

      It's easy for me to list - What I do not want... than to list what I do want, at least at the moment.

      I think the majority here realize; YOU DO have to help others or bring value to the exchange - or the odds of success greatly decrease. The other aspect that likely cripples people is connected to "NOT KNOWING" what you want... as that can be a root cause for having low self-esteem or a low-frequency self-image complex... I'm built for radio, not TV - LOL

      Although I did just hit 50 -and my daughter told me that I am still sexy... compared to most 50-years-olds... I don't think it'll help me, but I thought it was funny!
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by art72 View Post

        As a long time admirer of this forum, I can honestly say; I've spent so much time studying what other people WANT - I think to have lost focus on what I want. In stepping back and asking: "What do I want?"

        It can definitely be difficult to answer.

        I'm usually the one asking the wife, the kids, the client, contractor, or someone else what they want... and then trying to provide for their needs or wants.

        Being a "service provider" for most of my life - I definitely believe that could be a HUGE factor WHY many here (*myself included) have not pursued a REAL EFFORT in making the transition to online marketing or internet based business models.

        It's easy for me to list - What I do not want... than to list what I do want, at least at the moment.

        I think the majority here realize; YOU DO have to help others or bring value to the exchange - or the odds of success greatly decrease. The other aspect that likely cripples people is connected to "NOT KNOWING" what you want... as that can be a root cause for having low self-esteem or a low-frequency self-image complex... I'm built for radio, not TV - LOL

        Although I did just hit 50 -and my daughter told me that I am still sexy... compared to most 50-years-olds... I don't think it'll help me, but I thought it was funny!
        The WANT is MONEY... there is no other way around it... You dont want or CANT actually do physical labor... so the internet is this easy peasy lemon squeezy option for making money.

        If you would, read the 2 bold sections ( in order ) and tell me specifically what the difference is? Some no name nobody on the other end of the screen has a NEED...and you are programmed to do what? Provide correct? Not speaking to you... but at you, you have added order of difficulty - when none is needed.

        You simply have to do what you do best... I could give 2 flips about YOUR needs or wants because we already know its MONEY... pull your head out of your... and start already. I am not saying this to be cold or callus, or look Im better than you.. but since you have been back...I have easily made more than 6 digits in wicked silly side hussles ( not even bringing in my business(s) into the picture ) - BY DOING... what have you done?

        Write a report, build a website, and get traffic to the website already... Apparently, you have done this before?

        One might think you are more in love with the misery of not doing than actually - you know doing what you WANT - MAKE MONEY.

        Ill tell you what... I know what would be your PERFECT 1st project... " 100 ways to waste time - and fail " I will put a $100.00 bill on the table right now... you could sell that for $3.95 all day long - would make for some humorous TikTok content as well - since your sexy for a 50 yr old... sure you dont live in Mississippi? strange thing for a daughter to say ( LOL J/K - By the Grace of God I was born in the South so I am allowed to make such jokes )

        Just do bro just do
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Im going to throw a whole bunch of cards on the table...

    I started my making money online career selling images on AOL.. the part I have never stated HERE ( WF ) is I was actually selling them for my then fiancé ( #1 ).

    At some point after that I joined with 4 other friends and I was the back end programmer. It later tuned into doing SEO and some print related stuff etc. We ended up selling that business.

    From there I spent a year helping another friend with back end programming. Turned his $100,000 a year business into $1,000,000 ( gross ) a month that he is still running to this day.

    From there I jumped to big corporate SEO jobs... like BIG corporate jobs IE Record labels.

    After that I then got into website development... and was doing WHALE jobs - as in nothing under $60K and was filling in the gaps with govt contracting for Fed Contracts ( Back end database programming )

    In the middle of that I started developing sites locally - the place I lived had way to many restaurants and golf courses... and again it was easy fill in work. At some point in this I also made an investment in a large format printer and started that.

    I moved with wife #3 ( not actually married but bought her a ring and house and car ( LOL ) and took a break from Computers, and started installing DirecTv - and at some point got my head "straight" and was chasing Whales again.

    I finally jumped off of my programming high horse and started developing WordPress sites for local business. I then started offering SEO, and large format printing... and as time went on I added more and more services based on my past experience or current personal needs.

    So here I am today running 18 business' technically - and I AM A SERVICE PROVIDER - nothing more and nothing less.

    There is not a single professional effort on my part that has not been born from personal necessity - NOT A ONE. and what I mean by this... I was going to have 4 vehicles decaled, and some minor research I figured out I could buy the equipment to do this myself for the price of 1 vehicle. I started a greenhouse... that stemmed from growing herbs for my sons pet rabbits.

    What drives all of this? when I "Buy" something... I am just wired to get a return on the investment... and its a game on how fast can I get the return of investment. 1st large format printer was 1 week and now I have 15 of them... the vinyl cutter was in the plus just doing my own work, but now I have 5 of them and a full time installer.

    The greenhouse... $30 in parts and pieces turned into a 7 digit investment - because I had grown more than I could even think of using.

    So what I am trying to say.. well maybe i did say without saying... is DO YOU...if you want or need... so will someone else... and more than likely so will 1,000,000 others just like you.

    The whole find a niche and market research and all that BS... its just that, BS. Would you or better yet DID YOU buy what ever it is... then so will someone else. So SELL THAT.

    Happiness comes from within right? and yet we are always looking outside of ourselves

    Just DO YOU
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      I see some aces on that table.

      Also, we see you are truly unique, with specialized knowledge which you built off of. Bill Myers came out of the programming world too, and it appears you two were able to parlay that knowledge and skill into life long benefits.

      I mention Bill Myers because he too would DO something, such as build a chicken coop, DOCUMENT the journey, and then have another product for sale. Time and time it went just like you describe.

      Similar to your Direct TV ventures, Bill was big on satellite TV back in the early 90's.

      His site is still there, a lot of FREE stuff to examine...at bmyers.com and the thing to look at if you visit is to see THIS PROCESS, that savidge4 has been banging on for a long time...DO the thing, get the knowledge/experience, DOCUMENT, then share with others.

      Chicken coops, RV's, Video, writing, SaaS; one can follow his 25 year Internet journey and see it works. Just as Bill did Bill, and savidge4 does himself. You and us, WE, can do ourselves too.

      What I might "dispute", somewhat, is that without enough MONEY (and that is the target) to keep the foxes and wolves out of the henhouse, inner bliss is difficult to find.

      It is the reason why so many Warriors and money seekers in general, look for the step by step plan to follow, the ready to use templates, the done for you thing...and the chasing of unicorns, rainbows, shiny objects often leads to years of turmoil, due to the lack of money.

      Selling what you buy is fantastic advice, where the problems pop up and the road blocks happen is when you don't know HOW to sell it and or the finding of the other people just like you who you can sell to. And this is the basic idea behind the concept of finding a niche...

      A niche which you belong too, are a part of, are a consumer of that thing...and at least at that point you have some idea of where the other YOUS are, that you can make offers to.

      I don't think most Warriors have that basic fall back on skill (programming, coding or whatever) which they can build off of.

      But doing you, and finding the mirrors of your consumption is an excellent strategy to use for your journey.

      GordonJ





      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Im going to throw a whole bunch of cards on the table...

      I started my making money online career selling images on AOL.. the part I have never stated HERE ( WF ) is I was actually selling them for my then fiancé ( #1 ).

      At some point after that I joined with 4 other friends and I was the back end programmer. It later tuned into doing SEO and some print related stuff etc. We ended up selling that business.

      From there I spent a year helping another friend with back end programming. Turned his $100,000 a year business into $1,000,000 ( gross ) a month that he is still running to this day.

      From there I jumped to big corporate SEO jobs... like BIG corporate jobs IE Record labels.

      After that I then got into website development... and was doing WHALE jobs - as in nothing under $60K and was filling in the gaps with govt contracting for Fed Contracts ( Back end database programming )

      In the middle of that I started developing sites locally - the place I lived had way to many restaurants and golf courses... and again it was easy fill in work. At some point in this I also made an investment in a large format printer and started that.

      I moved with wife #3 ( not actually married but bought her a ring and house and car ( LOL ) and took a break from Computers, and started installing DirecTv - and at some point got my head "straight" and was chasing Whales again.

      I finally jumped off of my programming high horse and started developing WordPress sites for local business. I then started offering SEO, and large format printing... and as time went on I added more and more services based on my past experience or current personal needs.

      So here I am today running 18 business' technically - and I AM A SERVICE PROVIDER - nothing more and nothing less.

      There is not a single professional effort on my part that has not been born from personal necessity - NOT A ONE. and what I mean by this... I was going to have 4 vehicles decaled, and some minor research I figured out I could buy the equipment to do this myself for the price of 1 vehicle. I started a greenhouse... that stemmed from growing herbs for my sons pet rabbits.

      What drives all of this? when I "Buy" something... I am just wired to get a return on the investment... and its a game on how fast can I get the return of investment. 1st large format printer was 1 week and now I have 15 of them... the vinyl cutter was in the plus just doing my own work, but now I have 5 of them and a full time installer.

      The greenhouse... $30 in parts and pieces turned into a 7 digit investment - because I had grown more than I could even think of using.

      So what I am trying to say.. well maybe i did say without saying... is DO YOU...if you want or need... so will someone else... and more than likely so will 1,000,000 others just like you.

      The whole find a niche and market research and all that BS... its just that, BS. Would you or better yet DID YOU buy what ever it is... then so will someone else. So SELL THAT.

      Happiness comes from within right? and yet we are always looking outside of ourselves

      Just DO YOU
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I mention Bill Myers because he too would DO something, such as build a chicken coop, DOCUMENT the journey, and then have another product for sale. Time and time it went just like you describe.
        For years I was harping on the idea "Buy what you sell", to create a user experience and a better sales story.

        But because of what you and Savidge4 have posted, I see the real value is in "Sell what you buy". Meaning make a profit from what you buy...

        Until now, I was thinking that creating what you want, and then selling that.....was just my "I no longer need the money or feel the need to please everyone" old man thought process.


        But now I see it's actually a highly profitable way to think about building businesses.

        Thanks guys.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          For years I was harping on the idea "Buy what you sell", to create a user experience and a better sales story.

          But because of what you and Savidge4 have posted, I see the real value is in "Sell what you buy". Meaning make a profit from what you buy...

          Until now, I was thinking that creating what you want, and then selling that.....was just my "I no longer need the money or feel the need to please everyone" old man thought process.


          But now I see it's actually a highly profitable way to think about building businesses.

          Thanks guys.
          When speaking about training sales people I have read you more than once say something to the effect of the less they know the better they are - stick to the script, and to maybe flip your own words on you I present:


          Why Steve? right about 3:50 ish... "he's the BEST salesman, he probably knows the business, he probably knows the furniture inside and out, he will probably be able to help me better than anybody else"

          For all I know Steve was eating from a 1960 folding tray table and a lazyboy recliner from the 80's and his dining room probably consisted of a folding card table and chairs... but chances are better than good, that was probably not the case - I actually know a few people that sell furniture and I would say their houses are like over done if that makes sense. They are selling what they own - ish.

          When I walk into an establishment to buy something, I tend to be pre educated as to what I am buying and will ask the exact opposite question that you do..i dont want the BEST... I ask for the WORST. I use the situation to teach what it is I most need to learn.. and it tends to be product knowledge. How many times can I send that person back to ask what is this? and does this have that? and will it do whatever? and what color?

          Product knowledge... service knowledge for me is a whole thing. I buy an amount of Trucks so a left field question I will ask is whats the difference between a F150 and a F250? and the blank stares this question gets - even from seasoned sales people is oh so amusing. So those that dont know an F150 with a Ecoboost engine is just short of a sports car that looks like a truck... and an F250 is halfway to a Sherman tank... you jump to an F350, and well... that IS a Sherman tank. What you gain in tow capacity you lose in comfort.

          For ME... much like providing a service - one that I have honed through using myself as the Guinee Pig vs a client, product sales should be at the same level... actually owning the item you sell... or at the very least and using the trucks as an example having experienced that thing in a way that translates to product knowledge.

          And I think a direct correlation with those that succeed in Internet Marketing, and those that dont... is actual use of product / service. How exactly can you write a review for something you have never owned or used? Its not that you cant... its becomes more an issue what are YOU bringing to the table.

          Sell me this pencil right... and you sell the hell out of a Saratoga #2, but the pencil you are selling is a Pentel Quicker Clicker Mechanical Pencil #2 - maybe a bit exaggerated, but I have seen many pre sales pitches here on WF that are exactly that.

          Stepping this into maybe a language us older folks may understand... how many of us have sold things door to door or any other method that we didnt own? I would almost bet, now that I am thinking about it.. there is a direct correlation between ownership of a product vs non ownership. Just throwing a brand out there.. how many Kirby salespeople out there were successful long term, that never owned one?

          I would say that its probably better than pretty common for a salesman to actually say they do own X ( even tho they dont - personally guilty of this one ) and I would bet most consumers on some level pick that up as being a BS "Pitch", and dont buy.

          Something I do.. every year I import a quantity of something... last year it was electric scooters, there have been Drones, and Snuggies and all kinds of crap. The shipment comes in and EVERYONE on the sales team for that item gets one at the least to USE.. and however many they need to have their families use them as well.

          I think OWNERSHIP creates better content... anything and everything has Pros and Cons.. and through use, you understand what those are and will push the pros and maybe bury the cons or at the very least explain them away.

          I do the same thing with Produce.. I goto the store and specifically buy same varieties that we grow ( or close to it ) to taste test what everyone is buying in the store vs our product.

          We ventured into Tomatoes last year and I specifically wanted beef steak tomatoes. I personally drive to NJ to buy beef steak tomatoes to bring them back and compare to what we had grown... we will not be growing beef steak tomatoes again this year LOL

          Again I think there is just this built in confidence in what you are selling.. a knowledge base through owner ship or use, that is present? during the sales process if that makes sense.

          Sell what you buy I believe to create a better "Story" I was using X and made this and that the other day, it was fabulous.. vs Hey YOU.. buy this and you can make this and that..as much as they are the same.. the later is missing the personal testimonial.

          And with that there is a whole other rabbit hole we could get into... Me being a salesman and building relationships... and having the ability to have developed trust and throw out a testimonial of use - just another way of looking at this - story buildng on another level
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            When speaking about training sales people I have read you more than once say something to the effect of the less they know the better they are - stick to the script, and to maybe flip your own words on you I present:
            Yup. But that's in the beginning. Beginning salespeople are overflowing with enthusiasm...and that takes the place of product knowledge.

            What happens after they get a little experience is that they think they know how to sell, when in fact, they know almost nothing about selling. So they stop learning, start developing bad habits that cost them money, and they fail.

            The reason beginning salespeople need a script (or at least prepared remarks and answers to questions) is to keep them from killing the sale or misrepresenting what the customer is buying.

            I noticed in your post that you ask hard questions of salespeople. I love getting hard questions. I love getting questions where the person is trying to get me to contradict myself. This is actually the kind of give and take I enjoy.

            Engineers (as customers) tend to ask several hard technical questions. That's where I live. If I wasn't a salesman, I'd be an engineer. I think like an engineer. Engineers buy from me. When usually, the two groups of customers you don't want (in selling in homes) are engineers and teachers.

            Teachers are great in a retail store. They come in after they have read every article, seen every review, asked all their friends for their opinion......and they are smart buyers. But they don't like making impulse decisions, or even same day decisions.

            Engineers (or most people in analytical jobs) respond well to reason and real knowledge of the offer, an knowledge of competition.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I noticed in your post that you ask hard questions of salespeople. I love getting hard questions. I love getting questions where the person is trying to get me to contradict myself. This is actually the kind of give and take I enjoy.
              If I may, let me explain myself a bit... #1 I own all of your books ( I believe ) #2 I have probably at least consumed 90% of all of your available online content #3 In MY opinion you are a walking and talking Master Class in Sales - and I am BLESSED to have the opportunity to have these one on one type transactions - absolutely honored.

              Some of the statements below are generalizations ( maybe ) and at the very least my perception - just to be clear.

              So the contradiction aspect is what you are saying and what I believe clashing. I think you and I can agree that there are areas we absolutely have in common there are other areas that I think we could agree to disagree. I believe this comes from our "Style" of selling - as much as we might be alike, we are at polar opposites - and let me explain...

              You and I make 1 sale a day 365 sales in a year... your sales cycle, and let me be more specific in this, your transaction cycles is in the once every 3.5 year - 7 years. ( generalization / guessing ) Mine is monthly and for any one customer it averages to 15.6 transactions per year.

              Your "Style" is very transactional, and mine is far more "Relationship" driven And this is where i listen / read / watch what you are saying and have to translate? what is being said.

              Your interaction with "Steve" was transactional - you bought lifetime quality furniture... outside of a time frame of say a month or 2, you probably never heard from Steve again.

              The flip side of this is if you come to me and say buy a website, There are monthly transactions ( hosting ) and my ability to have an opportunity to sell to you often.

              So, we end up with Transactional Selling / Buying vs a Financial Relationship, and as much as the tactics and strategies in this maybe somewhat the same, there are many nuanced differences.

              And it is THIS that is presented as the mirror of ME with the contradiction... me wanting / needing your square peg to fit in my triangle hole.

              What I find interesting in how this plays out on my end.. eBay kinda by default very transactional. Which has its obvious Pro's being list it sell it ship it DONE... BUT every other business model I operate is very much BRAND oriented So the Con becomes not having the ability to sell to those that have bought from you before. Granted the entire platform is full of people that have bought on eBay before - and in itself that checks a box. And this becomes a whole other discussion, anyways...

              Relationship selling is not so mainstream... it requires time, and having to ( god forbid ) talk to people... so in context, there is not a plethora of resources in learning to hone the craft of selling in this manor

              There is this whole "The Money Is In The List" thing that happens... but thats far more about people that have bought will buy again... but at the end of the day the "List" is a wallet that can be reached into - in most cases as needed - Im short on rent I need to sell my list something. ( maybe an exaggeration but a true statement for many )

              Relationship Selling as I practice it is a win win on both sides... the paycheck at the end of the day is had by both ends of the transaction... you see your "Client" in the store, your not dodging them... and they are not dodging you... there is no snickering "That sap bought X... what a simp"

              So that would be why the hard questions - I hope it makes sense

              Very much appreciate you!
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Thanks you two, great discussion going on.

                Selling a thing, like a vaccum cleaner, air freshner, stove..appliances and furniture...is by its nature a transactional experience. Much like a car. Used to be brand loyalty, people would buy from the same car dealer for decades, and often the same brand, once upon a time a Ford guy wouldn't touch a Chevy...

                Then along came Honda.

                To toss some more kindling on; there is the choice, at the start-up to build a relationship business based on an initial TRANSACTION. And we old dogs of remote direct marketing bygone days, saw this repeated over and over.

                Fortunes selling jewelry were (are) made, once an initial purchase, if you keep the customer aware of your offers, and give them a good enough reason to buy again and again.

                Consumables, like cosmetics, are built on this; often a person will TRY something, and then if they like it, buy that product or brand for decades to come.

                I guess I would like to add that a newcomer or new Warrior, who hasn't yet chosen their path to their fortunes, might stop and think about the long term results.

                There are simple one off transactions, from a buck to 100 million (super yacht?)...or one can have an initial transactions and serve up a family of products/services increasing the lifetime value of the customer.

                This is a good discussion which helps highlight the different strategies and methods behind both. There isn't a right or wrong, but I sense that one's personality and personal preferences has a lot to do with those choices.

                I like a combination of both, although as the ages passed, I flipped from Relationships to Transactions...once 70 R./ 30 T. Today, it is quite the opposite. But you all get to choose which ever suits your wants and needs, eh?

                GordonJ


                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                If I may, let me explain myself a bit... #1 I own all of your books ( I believe ) #2 I have probably at least consumed 90% of all of your available online content #3 In MY opinion you are a walking and talking Master Class in Sales - and I am BLESSED to have the opportunity to have these one on one type transactions - absolutely honored.

                Some of the statements below are generalizations ( maybe ) and at the very least my perception - just to be clear.

                So the contradiction aspect is what you are saying and what I believe clashing. I think you and I can agree that there are areas we absolutely have in common there are other areas that I think we could agree to disagree. I believe this comes from our "Style" of selling - as much as we might be alike, we are at polar opposites - and let me explain...

                You and I make 1 sale a day 365 sales in a year... your sales cycle, and let me be more specific in this, your transaction cycles is in the once every 3.5 year - 7 years. ( generalization / guessing ) Mine is monthly and for any one customer it averages to 15.6 transactions per year.

                Your "Style" is very transactional, and mine is far more "Relationship" driven And this is where i listen / read / watch what you are saying and have to translate? what is being said.

                Your interaction with "Steve" was transactional - you bought lifetime quality furniture... outside of a time frame of say a month or 2, you probably never heard from Steve again.

                The flip side of this is if you come to me and say buy a website, There are monthly transactions ( hosting ) and my ability to have an opportunity to sell to you often.

                So, we end up with Transactional Selling / Buying vs a Financial Relationship, and as much as the tactics and strategies in this maybe somewhat the same, there are many nuanced differences.

                And it is THIS that is presented as the mirror of ME with the contradiction... me wanting / needing your square peg to fit in my triangle hole.

                What I find interesting in how this plays out on my end.. eBay kinda by default very transactional. Which has its obvious Pro's being list it sell it ship it DONE... BUT every other business model I operate is very much BRAND oriented So the Con becomes not having the ability to sell to those that have bought from you before. Granted the entire platform is full of people that have bought on eBay before - and in itself that checks a box. And this becomes a whole other discussion, anyways...

                Relationship selling is not so mainstream... it requires time, and having to ( god forbid ) talk to people... so in context, there is not a plethora of resources in learning to hone the craft of selling in this manor

                There is this whole "The Money Is In The List" thing that happens... but thats far more about people that have bought will buy again... but at the end of the day the "List" is a wallet that can be reached into - in most cases as needed - Im short on rent I need to sell my list something. ( maybe an exaggeration but a true statement for many )

                Relationship Selling as I practice it is a win win on both sides... the paycheck at the end of the day is had by both ends of the transaction... you see your "Client" in the store, your not dodging them... and they are not dodging you... there is no snickering "That sap bought X... what a simp"

                So that would be why the hard questions - I hope it makes sense

                Very much appreciate you!
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                If I may, let me explain myself a bit... #1 I own all of your books ( I believe ) #2 I have probably at least consumed 90% of all of your available online content #3 In MY opinion you are a walking and talking Master Class in Sales - and I am BLESSED to have the opportunity to have these one on one type transactions - absolutely honored.
                That means a lot to me. And it means a lot more when it comes from someone who already knows their business, and knows quite a lot about selling. Thank you.


                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                I believe this comes from our "Style" of selling - as much as we might be alike, we are at polar opposites - and let me explain...

                You and I make 1 sale a day 365 sales in a year... your sales cycle, and let me be more specific in this, your transaction cycles is in the once every 3.5 year - 7 years. ( generalization / guessing ) Mine is monthly and for any one customer it averages to 15.6 transactions per year.

                Your "Style" is very transactional, and mine is far more "Relationship" driven And this is where i listen / read / watch what you are saying and have to translate? what is being said.
                When selling in people's homes, it was so transactional, that it didn't occur to me that my best prospects had already bought from me...for at least my first two decades in selling. Probably my biggest mistake, resulting in my losing at least a few million dollars in sales.

                But the difference between us may not be style, but how our customers buy.

                Even in one call closing, a relationship is built, or the sale won't happen. And in selling from the stage, the relationship is everything. A lot of "brand" building goes on about me before they ever see me.

                But I get what you mean. In fact, when I'm selling, no matter how I sound to the buyer, or how they feel about me, to me it's a transaction. I want to be fair. I want them to benefit. But it doesn't go beyond that.

                It's just not in me. It's why I will sell sales training courses, but I won't do consulting or coaching beyond an hour on the phone.



                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                Relationship Selling as I practice it is a win win on both sides... the paycheck at the end of the day is had by both ends of the transaction... you see your "Client" in the store, your not dodging them... and they are not dodging you... there is no snickering "That sap bought X... what a simp"

                So that would be why the hard questions - I hope it makes sense

                Very much appreciate you!
                My sales are always Win-Win. It isn't out of a sense of morality, but a strong sense of fairness. Even with customers I don't like. This will sound weird, but I have a relationship..... with the sale, not the customer.

                To me, the transaction is almost a sacred thing. For example, I've been wanting to retire from my retail store for some time. But I wouldn't close the store, because I felt an obligation to our large number of customers...who trusted my recommendation....and bought from me.

                But my personality and thought process are pretty transactional. That makes me a more competent salesman, but a less compassionate and tolerant employer.

                You may find this interesting.
                Years ago, when I was doing really well with in home selling, and had a crew of salespeople...a friend and mentor said to me "If you can train others to sell as well as you, you should have a staff of salespeople, to multiply your sales. If you can't train others to sell as well as you, you should just sell, and have one or to support people"

                He was right. I always made the most money (and had the most satisfaction) when I was the one doing the selling, and I had one or two people doing service and support. I had an average of between 6 and 8 reps at all times. And after I let them go (to concentrate on selling myself) my income rose, and my blood pressure fell.

                I say I let them go, but I really arranged for them to work for another local distributor...who took them gladly.
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  You may find this interesting.
                  Years ago, when I was doing really well with in home selling, and had a crew of salespeople...a friend and mentor said to me "If you can train others to sell as well as you, you should have a staff of salespeople, to multiply your sales. If you can't train others to sell as well as you, you should just sell, and have one or to support people"

                  He was right. I always made the most money (and had the most satisfaction) when I was the one doing the selling, and I had one or two people doing service and support. I had an average of between 6 and 8 reps at all times. And after I let them go (to concentrate on selling myself) my income rose, and my blood pressure fell.
                  The best selling job I ever had, was in a Fine Arts Gallery. Chagall, Picasso, Mac, Red Skelton?! High end stuff - and the sales people there were top rate - Silly stupid to watch. All of the years of reading about selling - just thrown out the door.

                  No scripts or obvious method to the madness each one on the outside looked / sounded totally different... but the underlaying element was the ability of these people to draw out the prospects life story - which later in life I realized this was how they were "Qualifying" So what do you do for a living? etc that was Small Talk - but lead quickly to understanding if they could afford the $50,000 piece the prospect was were looking at.

                  In general... people looking at art would be in town for a week ( was in Hawaii - and they were there on vacation ) and almost like clock work these people would show up right about the same time every day for a number of days - more than enough time for "Relationship" building. They come in once, ok whatever... they come in the next night, and you are getting somewhere, and these guys/gals would close generally in days 3 to 5.

                  The whole process has stayed with me... in more than many ways changed the way I saw and practice selling. I dont have scripts- and I deviate from the topic of selling often... "Hey do you have any kids?"

                  I CAN 1 call close when I have to, but by no means my preferred method. ( the reading from a young age still is in me )

                  Im a Southern Boy..i like to slow things down... I cant even begin to tell you how many deals have been closed on a Golf Course... 3 to 4 hours with you and a prospect? come on now... its like bobbing for apples after you tip the barrel over and there aint nothin but apples on the floor.

                  You cant teach this stuff... I have tried for years and I dont think it even transfers by osmosis.

                  For ME, selling is a team effort. If I am out selling websites I will have either the graphic designer or a programmer with me to make the presentations... The goal used to be to teach them how I sell... and it has ended up being an example of a reason not to quit... or they will have to do this themselves LOL

                  Websites are a lot like kids... you have to nurture them and get them out into the world to grow. Kids aren't easy to raise and websites aren't easy to get the results you want... like your kids washing dishes.

                  It all comes together in the end - in a round about Southern Story Teller kind of way - and how exactly am I supposed to teach someone how to sell if i have this wonky Southern backwoods approach? I cant... and I just dont want to bother with main streaming the whole effort to make it replicatable. Plus that, I enjoy it to much.

                  Support staff is where its at
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    It all comes together in the end - in a round about Southern Story Teller kind of way - and how exactly am I supposed to teach someone how to sell if i have this wonky Southern backwoods approach? I cant... and I just dont want to bother with main streaming the whole effort to make it replicatable. Plus that, I enjoy it to much.

                    Support staff is where its at
                    Teaching selling is relegated to techniques and strategies. Why? Because these are obvious and can be understood on a conscious level.

                    Your Southern boy charm kind of selling can not be taught. But it can be absorbed.

                    The relationship sellers that are successful, know techniques...sure. But most of what they know they have absorbed unconsciously. They understand "Why" it all works...unconsciously. All the principles are understood unconsciously.

                    The best reps and conversationalists do almost everything without thinking. Their unconscious processes what's going on, and out pops the right thing to say.

                    That's why many of the very best salespeople can't put what they do into words. They understand it unconsciously. And they can't access that part of their brain verbally.

                    I have one asset that most people don't in selling.

                    I had no natural talent, and no social skills. I had to learn everything I did, and what worked, and what didn't..... Intellectually. None of it came unconsciously.

                    So it took me years... to understand what most top people absorb quickly and unconsciously.

                    My gift is that. since I had to learn it all intellectually, I can teach everything I do and know, so it can be understood by any sharp salesperson.

                    I've done the relationship selling...over days or weeks. It's that I just think about business when I'm talking with them, so it's not my natural mode of selling.

                    Plus, I'm not a naturally social person. I have to intellectually...consciously...force myself to engage in a non-business conversation.

                    My teenage years were a living hell.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I see some aces on that table.

        Also, we see you are truly unique, with specialized knowledge which you built off of. Bill Myers came out of the programming world too, and it appears you two were able to parlay that knowledge and skill into life long benefits.
        I dont think I am unique... Understanding how to leverage past experience... is far from unique...what is unique is my continual act of DOING.

        I have been programming computers since I was 13? it actually started before that with punch cards ( if that doesnt show my age I dont know what will ) So I am wired with a very linear thought pattern Line 10 line 20 line 30 line 40 And THIS applies to MANY MANY things. This thought process is no different than say for a contractor building a home.... Foundation, walls, roof, close in, electric, plumbing, Havac, drywall, paint etc

        If you do things out of order you screw yourself. A miss step in understanding how one might affect the other might screw yourself.

        My brain and say Arts brain... work in a whole lot of ways the same. . Just to point out a contrast to this.. My brain ( linear ) and Odahhs brain ( very Buddist monk like - use a bowl clean a bowl ) we simply dont see things the same. HOWEVER, i do understand Odahhs thought process - due to my personal path of personal growth

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I mention Bill Myers because he too would DO something, such as build a chicken coop, DOCUMENT the journey, and then have another product for sale. Time and time it went just like you describe.

        Similar to your Direct TV ventures, Bill was big on satellite TV back in the early 90's.

        His site is still there, a lot of FREE stuff to examine...at bmyers.com and the thing to look at if you visit is to see THIS PROCESS, that savidge4 has been banging on for a long time...DO the thing, get the knowledge/experience, DOCUMENT, then share with others.

        Chicken coops, RV's, Video, writing, SaaS; one can follow his 25 year Internet journey and see it works. Just as Bill did Bill, and savidge4 does himself. You and us, WE, can do ourselves too.
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        What I might "dispute", somewhat, is that without enough MONEY (and that is the target) to keep the foxes and wolves out of the henhouse, inner bliss is difficult to find.
        Ok so dispute this... people can save to buy a $69.00 video game or a $500 gaming system or a $2000 pair of shoes...and yet.. do I need to finish this sentence? I dropped the path, $40 to financial freedom...

        You want to dispute something... the ability to NOT spend a single dime made from that $40 on anything other than re-investment for 1 year.

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        It is the reason why so many Warriors and money seekers in general, look for the step by step plan to follow, the ready to use templates, the done for you thing...and the chasing of unicorns, rainbows, shiny objects often leads to years of turmoil, due to the lack of money.
        The REAL reason as I elude to above is NOT making money.. its Money management... as I call it, the paycheck mindset... make it - spend it IE 1 step forward 2 steps back and given any amount of time you are probably worse off than when you started.

        It takes money to make money... in my eBay thread... i started with $40. the $40 turned into $120..and then what? I invested the $120... then $360, then 1200 then 3600 compounding my investment into WORKING CAPITOL.

        At the end of 1 year my son and I had 6 digits in the bank... To give folks an idea of how frugal I am, IF I had a house payment and a car payment my household budget ALL IN - Mortgage, Vehicle, Food, Utilities, Taxes - ALL IN - would be $2400 a month that is, we will call it $30,000 a year... that $100,000 is a 3 YEAR financial cushion. if everything went to hell and back tomorrow I could exist in the exact same manor I am today for 3 Years

        Linear thinking right? Understanding how DOING something TODAY... might effect your ability to do something TOMORROW.

        ONE YEAR of a solid SIDE HUSSLE can take you from paycheck to paycheck to financial bliss, with one what I consider one simple mind shift Make spend to hold to reinvest

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Selling what you buy is fantastic advice, where the problems pop up and the road blocks happen is when you don't know HOW to sell it and or the finding of the other people just like you who you can sell to. And this is the basic idea behind the concept of finding a niche...
        Unlike just about anyone else on this forum... being a service provider no less... what is the #1 piece of advice I share? SELL PRODUCTS... and sell them on platforms.

        How many here drink coffee? how many people here have a coffee maker? I can buy them all day long and twice on Saturday ( Garage sales ) for say $5.00 - and often less... follow my eBay thread and a $5.00 purchase needs to sell for $15.00 plus shipping plus fees... so we will say $25.00... goto to eBay and type "Coffee Maker". You are not going to sell mainstay and make a profit... but even if you buy a decent brand and the dang thing dont work you can probably meet the profit margin by selling JUST the Carafe.

        Another example? look at Juicers. Another? Kitchenaid anything. For a giggle.. Sony Walkman

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        A niche which you belong too, are a part of, are a consumer of that thing...and at least at that point you have some idea of where the other YOUS are, that you can make offers to.
        I have never maybe said it like I am about to, but I have said look at around your house right? PICK A ROOM... ANY ROOM and start from there.

        So lets take this a step further... YOU use a juicer every day... you OBVIOUSLY have favorite combinations.. Combinations equate to recipes.. recipes equates to CONTENT and CONTENT sells juicers from a website as a Amazon affiliate - AND links to your eBay store

        NOW.. we are side hussling Juicers from Goodwill and garage sales... and we are developing the skill of documenting.. follow me here.. you are FLIPPING juicers meaning you have them right in front of you.. what do you do? you DOCUMENT your use of said juicer.. Pros Cons.. compared to old faithful.. easy to clean? yada yada.. again MORE CONTENT. You have an ACTIVE hussle that is feeding you PASSIVE hussle. - Let that one sink in for a moment

        And then I said pick a room right? Toaster? Coffee Maker? Waffle Iron? Air Fryer? Mixer? Blender? Pots and Pans? Knives? are we getting the idea here?

        What about living rooms or bedrooms or dining rooms or craft room or sewing rooms or kids rooms or home office?

        Then throw in a little Pinterest and Instagram into the picture - Picture? - did you see what I did there? ( my ode to Jeffery )

        Keep your miserable hateful job for 1 year - and 2 hours a day will replace all the misery with pure enjoyment - and happyness

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I don't think most Warriors have that basic fall back on skill (programming, coding or whatever) which they can build off of.
        So the question is why do I have that and others dont? Like I said in the previous post... ALL of my business' and by proxy all of my SKILLS are developed out of personal necessity. In regards to being a "service provider" I am sure you have read me say before..do for yourself before you do for others.

        What does that mean... build a website that actually "Functions" IE does what it is intended to do - in this discussion it would be to sell stuff, before you go out and try and get paid to build a site for someone else - Learn on your own dime.

        Programming Excel and Mysql and Oracle are far cries from html, or CSS or html5 or WordPress / Woo Commerce.. I acquired these skills on my own dime. No different than being a photographer and buying a large format printer to print my own images and learn about color space and workflow and papers and inks before going out and selling prints and banners etc. Same with Vinyl, or Satellite, or cutting boards or SEO or lettuce and micro greens.

        Linear thinking - dont put the cart before the horse
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    So all this focus on mindset seems a bit off target. As the real mindset is the mindset to build a business around one's personality.

    I was mistaken I thought the thing one enjoyed came first. But its self awareness or personality awareness.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      So all this focus on mindset seems a bit off target. As the real mindset is the mindset to build a business around one's personality.

      I was mistaken I thought the thing one enjoyed came first. But its self awareness or personality awareness.
      Im not so sure that is really the case... do what you love right? Not really but kinda sorta personality...

      But the selling part... If you dont want to talk to people the shift / shove to online sales seems to be the way to go. And then its a matter of WHAT you are selling...

      Like I explain a few posts above you could focus on kitchen stuff... which I believe you kinda like - Bread makers etc and absolutely get away with transactional sales through the internet.

      Getting into micro greens etc... you would want to focus more on an amount of relationship building - be it commercial accounts or people coming every week every other week to buy your goods.

      The mindset has not changed.... we are simply discussing the mechanisms that make the whole thing work, specifically the sales process. Just because you have a "Right Mind" doesnt mean you dont have to do sales.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        So all this focus on mindset seems a bit off target. As the real mindset is the mindset to build a business around one's personality.

        I was mistaken I thought the thing one enjoyed came first. But its self awareness or personality awareness.



        DO what you love, as savidge4 says above (or below).

        Having a right Mind??? No idea what this is, but the selling is the DOing, isn't it?

        But for that, you have to have something to sell....product or service.

        Being stuck for years in MINDset, without having offers on the table, sort of irrelevant.

        If the personality is one of procrastination, might be better to ignore it.

        GordonJ

        P.S. Semantics, or trying to get the meaning right, is most often a sign of resistance and a habit of procrastination.




        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Im not so sure that is really the case... do what you love right? Not really but kinda sorta personality...

        But the selling part... If you dont want to talk to people the shift / shove to online sales seems to be the way to go. And then its a matter of WHAT you are selling...

        Like I explain a few posts above you could focus on kitchen stuff... which I believe you kinda like - Bread makers etc and absolutely get away with transactional sales through the internet.

        Getting into micro greens etc... you would want to focus more on an amount of relationship building - be it commercial accounts or people coming every week every other week to buy your goods.

        The mindset has not changed.... we are simply discussing the mechanisms that make the whole thing work, specifically the sales process. Just because you have a "Right Mind" doesnt mean you dont have to do sales.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          P.S. Semantics, or trying to get the meaning right, is most often a sign of resistance and a habit of procrastination.
          As much as I believe the above statement to be true - look at 6 posts up from here, where i clarify "Semantics" of sorts and my struggle with giving words a meaning for "ME"

          Iam going to make a statement here... there are a few of us here within this discussion, and in regards to the WF at large HORRIBLE examples of doing what you love. Its not that we are being fake or dishonest. It is because our Love or Passion is in PROCESS and not a thing or service.

          Claude specifically has a passion for "SALES" and everything within that process. His outward mirror of that passion happens to be Vacuums, im going to make an assumption here, but he could give 2 dingle berries about Vacuums... BUT that was the vehicle that stuck in his pursuit of his passion / love that is Selling.

          MY Love / Passion is the overall PROCESS of building a business - much broader in scope than say Claude... and that would be why someone like me pays such close attention to someone like Claude

          Gordon... I want to include you here... you are an unknown of sorts... I cant specifically pin down your Love / Passion... Any manor of ways that one can make money... if teaching is a reflection of what one needs to learn.. you teach this OFTEN. So how to start a business maybe your trigger?

          So these are HORRIBLE role models to those that have a passion for say someone with a passion for using a Sous-Vide machine Or Pokémon cards. There is a connection in what we are sayng..but not a CONNECTION - if that makes sense?

          All 3 of us ( as examples ) can insert any product and or any service and have success... Claude can SELL it, I can build a business around it, and Gordon can write a report on how someone else might start such a business - but NONE of the 3 understand the core having a passion for X and how to translate that passion for X into dollars... and more specifically the struggles in getting started. And I think it is in this, that I know for myself I get frustrated ( strong term ) sometimes.

          We understand the process from A to Z, and I dont think any of us understand "How do I pick a niche?" As real as a question that is - I get it... I absolutely DONT get it... Im like "look around", "Sell what you buy" and "Document your journey" With NO inclination of doubt in... the PROCESS.

          And it is in that... that there is a disconnect between what we say, and how people on the other end read it - much like how what Claude says and I read it plays out.

          As much as we speak "TRUTH" we are speaking OUR Truth, and maybe not so much a Universal Truth.

          My thoughts anyways
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Great thoughts, love where this thread is going.

            DO what you love. Yea, we've probably all have heard it, most of us have said it...and you have nailed the IT (process) to the wall.

            And I will agree we (plus other Warriors) may be HORRIBLE examples of the DO what you love idea or concept; the common thread is...we DO.

            I am going to make a statement here too. A UNIVERSAL truth statement:

            YOU don't get paid for doing nothing.

            Exceptions are Old money Warriors operating from a trust fund (must be at least one, eh)...but I'd bet most of the tens of thousands of people who join this forum will accept the statement YOU DON'T GET PAID FOR DOING NOTHING as being as close to an Universal truth as we Internet Marketers can get.

            The many facets of successful Warriors, and there are several of them to choose from, get to be looked at and inspected before any given new or old Warrior starts their IM journey.

            And those many, many different experiences shared here offer any sincere Warrior a smorgasbord of opportunities which they can then pick and choose from.

            To then ACT upon what they have learned or discovered here.

            I love your LINEAR thought approach too; and I offer a simple line graphic to explain it:

            $$>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>$$ V(alue)
            V <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

            Money flows. It goes from him/her/they to me/us/marketers. Money moves from one point to another.

            Money is in motion. Money (or Value) has to be exchanged. Without the motion, one does not get any return.

            WE, as one of the many sides to the diamond of IM, offer our experiences, but the onus, the RESPONSIBILITY for making the choice and acting on it is squarely on the shoulders of the Warrior who is seeking their way.

            WE draw maps, give examples, offer advice, relate experiences and sometimes may appear to kick their azzes, or shove, push or cajole them toward their goals...

            BUT we can't do it for them.

            Even those WSO who have a done for you element, require more from the Warrior, or otherwise, we'd have a million success stories here.

            I suggest the disconnect, if there is one...is between the newbie or beginner and their wants and

            the willingness to do what it takes (as Kay succinctly pointed out).

            IF they want to start a business,
            or learn to sell something,
            or learn to document what they did...

            THEY have to start, and DO.

            We see Warriors after months (or longer) whom still have not connected their wants/desires/needs to

            their ACTIONS toward getting what they want.

            Do we need to have any more understanding of their perceptions, perspectives or their process?

            We can only carry the water so far and if one of the 27 successful Warriors found here, who share their experiences and give advice freely, does not suit the new/inactive Warrior, they may be in the wrong place.

            GordonJ





            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            As much as I believe the above statement to be true - look at 6 posts up from here, where i clarify "Semantics" of sorts and my struggle with giving words a meaning for "ME"

            Iam going to make a statement here... there are a few of us here within this discussion, and in regards to the WF at large HORRIBLE examples of doing what you love. Its not that we are being fake or dishonest. It is because our Love or Passion is in PROCESS and not a thing or service.

            Claude specifically has a passion for "SALES" and everything within that process. His outward mirror of that passion happens to be Vacuums, im going to make an assumption here, but he could give 2 dingle berries about Vacuums... BUT that was the vehicle that stuck in his pursuit of his passion / love that is Selling.

            MY Love / Passion is the overall PROCESS of building a business - much broader in scope than say Claude... and that would be why someone like me pays such close attention to someone like Claude

            Gordon... I want to include you here... you are an unknown of sorts... I cant specifically pin down your Love / Passion... Any manor of ways that one can make money... if teaching is a reflection of what one needs to learn.. you teach this OFTEN. So how to start a business maybe your trigger?

            So these are HORRIBLE role models to those that have a passion for say someone with a passion for using a Sous-Vide machine Or Pokémon cards. There is a connection in what we are sayng..but not a CONNECTION - if that makes sense?

            All 3 of us ( as examples ) can insert any product and or any service and have success... Claude can SELL it, I can build a business around it, and Gordon can write a report on how someone else might start such a business - but NONE of the 3 understand the core having a passion for X and how to translate that passion for X into dollars... and more specifically the struggles in getting started. And I think it is in this, that I know for myself I get frustrated ( strong term ) sometimes.

            We understand the process from A to Z, and I dont think any of us understand "How do I pick a niche?" As real as a question that is - I get it... I absolutely DONT get it... Im like "look around", "Sell what you buy" and "Document your journey" With NO inclination of doubt in... the PROCESS.

            And it is in that... that there is a disconnect between what we say, and how people on the other end read it - much like how what Claude says and I read it plays out.

            As much as we speak "TRUTH" we are speaking OUR Truth, and maybe not so much a Universal Truth.

            My thoughts anyways
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            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              Thanks GordonJ. I don't necessarily think it has to be a "Us Verses Them" mentality. In fact that can be
              counter-productive. If a Person wants to help People ... They'll help them.
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                Thanks GordonJ. I don't necessarily think it has to be a "Us Verses Them" mentality. In fact that can be
                counter-productive. If a Person wants to help People ... They'll help them.
                Well. We're HERE, are we not?

                Where you came up with Us vs Them, ???? No idea.

                The discussion is about our personal perspectives and how those might be misunderstood.

                I think the FACT, we show up here on a routine basis and offer our experiences and advice, demonstrates the willingness to help, doesn't it? Or do you see it differently?

                We cast our pearls. The issue is whether or not they are ACTED upon, you are a big proponent of ACTION, RIGHT?

                We are the water. The newbie or unsuccessful Warriors are the horses.

                The help is here.

                Drink or don't. NO US. NO them. No conflict, no war.

                We all offer what we have, if we didn't want to help, like many a long gone Warrior has done...we'd leave.

                So again, we're here. READY, willing and able to help. Take it or leave it.

                GordonJ
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  Well. We're HERE, are we not?
                  Sure.

                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  Where you came up with Us vs Them, ???? No idea
                  Well in your OP you said "We" do this and "We" that. Just kind of seemed like you were creating a Us Vs Them proposition. Maybe I was wrong. : (

                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  I think the FACT, we show up here on a routine basis and offer our experiences and advice, demonstrates the willingness to help, doesn't it? Or do you see it differently?
                  You've been a great Contributor. (And that's something I respect.) ... I was mostly thinking about your OP.

                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  We cast our pearls. The issue is whether or not they are ACTED upon, you are a big proponent of ACTION, RIGHT?
                  Definitely. However it also has to be "Smart" Acton. (IMO)

                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  We are the water. The newbie or unsuccessful Warriors are the horses.

                  So again, we're here. READY, willing and able to help. Take it or leave it.
                  Well, I hope that's the case: The Forum is a much better place when People are supporting and helping each other.
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                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                    ...a kick in the ass. That has sometimes been the best support we can get, or give.

                    As it has been pointed out by others, the mind forum has a lot of Naval Gazing, defined at Merriam-Webster as: uselss or excessive self-comtemplation.

                    There are doers, and there are the others.

                    As for the OP, a man who thinks things through, then ACTS on his thoughts in a methodical, disciplined manner until the idea is manifest for all to see.

                    It does begin with thought, but ends with the final action of stepping on to the rooftop. Although Harvey Brody has his 63+ years of continuous success, he doesn't have all the answers for everyone.

                    I've never seen the world as a we vs. them, in any way...with the exception of writing copy and that of course is a well thought out strategy to create an enemy to throw rocks at and establish rapport.

                    I've often stated I have no competiton (the underlining thought is, neither do you)...and for decades I have not thought about winning or rolling over the competition with a tank or all that War talk, although I may be a Warrior here, in the business world, I'm a peace-nik unconcerned with what others do on the ground with their tanks, armies, war talk of killing the competition and all that...I'm busy flying above the fray and below the radar.

                    Maybe it is the supporting part?

                    I get that many today, millennials especially, need a different kind of support than we OK Boomers are want to give...but even now, a boot to the behind might help even some of those.

                    GordonJ



                    Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                    Sure.



                    Well in your OP you said "We" do this and "We" that. Just kind of seemed like you were creating a Us Vs Them proposition. Maybe I was wrong. : (



                    You've been a great Contributor. (And that's something I respect.) ... I was mostly thinking about your OP.



                    Definitely. However it also has to be "Smart" Acton. (IMO)



                    Well, I hope that's the case: The Forum is a much better place when People are supporting and helping each other.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


                      I've often stated I have no competiton (the underlining thought is, neither do you)...and for decades I have not thought about winning or rolling over the competition with a tank or all that War talk, although I may be a Warrior here, in the business world, I'm a peace-nik unconcerned with what others do on the ground with their tanks, armies, war talk of killing the competition and all that...I'm busy flying above the fray and below the radar.
                      It's weird, but I never thought badly about my "competition" either..

                      To me, we were always colleagues, not competitors.

                      I would get in a conversation with a salesperson (or distributor) from a different brand of vacuum cleaner, and I would always be willing to help them in any way I could. It always felt strange when they would start denigrating my company (or product).

                      To them, we were often competing for the same customers. But to me, there was plenty to go around, and I always wished them success.

                      I had a conversation (years ago) with a competitor distributor, who started telling me why my product was bad and his was great.

                      I stopped him and said "I thought you were a distributor, not a salesman. I'm going to let you in on a secret, my friend...the CEOs of our companies, and all the other competitive companies are friends. They play golf together. You sell a motor wrapped in plastic. I sell a motor wrapped in plastic. This isn't a war".

                      Small minds. Small goals.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                Thanks GordonJ. I don't necessarily think it has to be a "Us Verses Them" mentality. In fact that can be
                counter-productive. If a Person wants to help People ... They'll help them.
                If you mean Business person VS Customer...

                I have seen that, but only in the lowest form of salesperson. These guys never do well, and they don't last long.

                I don't think I've ever met a successful salesperson , consultant, trainer, marketer who believed that they were getting the better end of the deal It's always "The client is getting more out of this transaction than I am". By that I mean that the client benefits more than the salesperson.

                As far as helping people, this is my take on it.

                When I talk to a prospect, my main thought is "how can I best help this person?" I'm not joking.

                But I have to say that in the vast majority of cases, the very best way to help that person is by selling them the best quality offer I have. After all, if I'm talking business with them, and I don't convince them that they should buy from me...I have wasted their time.



                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                Well, I hope that's the case: The Forum is a much better place when People are supporting and helping each other.
                My Friend. I assure you, that's the case here. We are very fortunate to have a highly successful and diversified group of experienced businesspeople here on the forum that have proven, time and again, that they are here to help and teach what they know.

                And if they say something that sounds a little stern, it's because they care enough to be direct.

                And they try to steer the less experienced away from making the same costly mistakes we have all made on our journey.

                At least, that what I see.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  My Friend. I assure you, that's the case here. We are very fortunate to have a highly successful and diversified group of experienced businesspeople here on the forum that have proven, time and again, that they are here to help and teach what they know.
                  Actually, I agree: You're right Claude. And I'm grateful to be a Member here. : ) (With my post, I was just having a strange moment, I guess.)

                  Thanks,
                  Jonathan
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  I don't think I've ever met a successful salesperson , consultant, trainer, marketer who believed that they were getting the better end of the deal It's always "The client is getting more out of this transaction than I am". By that I mean that the client benefits more than the salesperson.

                  As far as helping people, this is my take on it.

                  When I talk to a prospect, my main thought is "how can I best help this person?" I'm not joking.
                  Wow ― great approach to Marketing and Selling. : ) Similarly when Steve Jobs was asked the "secret" of success he said: "I think you've got to care." At the end of my Mission Statement it says. "... Because I care."

                  2C
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                  • [QUOTE=Jonathan 2.0;11709410]Similarly when Steve Jobs was asked the "secret" of success he said: "I think you've got to care." QUOTE]


                    Prahblem with Jahbs now he dead is anywan can misquote the guy.


                    I think you've got to cart.


                    An' that is prolly troo bcs he in the moorgh now, an' we still all usin' his stuff.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

                      Prahblem with Jahbs now he dead is anywan can misquote the guy.
                      Lol. Well he is dead, however I'm certain the quotation is accurate.


                      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

                      I think you've got to cart.
                      An' that is prolly troo bcs he in the moorgh now, an' we still all usin' his stuff.
                      I'm not an expert on Apple ... They seem like a great company though.
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                      • Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                        I'm not an expert on Apple ... They seem like a great company though.
                        Are you gazin' upon a TOLL SITYOOAYSCHWAAHN here?

                        That is the marketin' model for Apple.

                        You want our kinda stuff?

                        Get it here, an' only here.

                        It works like magic.

                        If'n it helps, I loathe their shit.

                        But billions don't.

                        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                        The best selling job I ever had, was in a Fine Arts Gallery. Chagall, Picasso, Mac, Red Skelton?! High end stuff - and the sales people there were top rate - Silly stupid to watch. All of the years of reading about selling - just thrown out the door.
                        Horizon captivation is key, I guess.

                        An' I so love art for openin' up miraculatyoore without dream of a bean.

                        So how may we step into the fyootyoore, an' smooch riotously with glories we pluck selectively from the Caahsmaahs?

                        Always gotta be bcs one singulah horizon inspires our steps its way above all othah.

                        An' I would wish always to believe that if such horizons don't exist, we gotta make 'em up.

                        Else'n what we stuck with?

                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        My teenage years were a living hell.
                        But naht a dyin' one.

                        An' I guess this is the flavah of this post an' all the real cool comments here.

                        Same don't evah have momentum beyond proto-stuck.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by art72 View Post

              How MUCH is ENOUGH? (with the words wrapped around a dollar symbol).

              Billionaires... still WANT or NEED more MONEY?

              No they WANT CONTROL!

              So do I, but that's an EXTREME - I cannot fathom.
              If you are saying this, then you have missed the point of this entire thread....


              More money? nope.... Follow your passion or your love or whatever you want to call it and the money just follows.... Elon Musk has made enough, so he should just retire? Bill Gates... hell he is just giving it all away, and yet he is still following his passions, and interests and ever increasing his wealth.

              Has absolutely NOTHING to do with MONEY.. that's just the side effect.

              I can tell you from personal experience there is this whole thing that happens when house bills and car payments and vacations - "Lifestyle" - is no longer a concern. You have the money and freedom to do what you want - whatever tickles your fancy... Oh I made enough, now I am going to do nothing just isnt an option - I DREAD VACATIONS - bored out of my mind.

              Without even knowing it the thing you cant fathom is FREEDOM - Getting up in the morning and actually being engaged with what you are doing for the day... I am not going to say its 100% stress free... BUT its no longer FINANCIAL stress... there is no whoa is me I cant pay my bills - #1 stress in relationships and interpersonally... MONEY - what happens when that disappears?

              Originally Posted by art72 View Post

              My biggest regret - having not had more time to really travel, investigate, research, and study all the brilliant minds in a multitude of 'cultures outside' of my own.

              Good luck trying to teach it, sell it, or position yourself as an expert in such fields of study...
              So let me throw this little tidbit at you... how do you position yourself in this space? FOOD - Food is the absolute basis of Religion, Culture, and Geographic location. Look at something like American BBQ - KC, Southern, Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina.. and beyond American.. you have all kinds of Asian, and Jerk, and African. BBQ is Location and Cultural as a mug...

              Thats not even getting into HOW its cooked, slow cook, smoked ( and this breaks down by the types of wood ), Sous-Vide, Pressure Cooker, Grilled, Baked, pit

              Just in the Culture, Geography, and Preparation of BBQ - there is one hell of a Amazon affiliate site waiting to happen. You can literally travel the world at your dining room table every night.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              2 hours 20 minutes of this thread repeated by a bunch of unknowing actors


              Wow.. "the #1 way people communicate,is by buying things" Gary V ( right in the 1hour 5 minute mark )
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Start watching at the 2:50 time stamp - ties in with: "the #1 way people communicate,is by buying things" Gary V


                So people "Spend" money because they are unhappy with the way they made the money - oh - mind blowing
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                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  Start watching at the 2:50 time stamp - ties in with: "the #1 way people communicate,is by buying things" Gary V

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiZ9QsOPGkw

                  So people "Spend" money because they are unhappy with the way they made the money - oh - mind blowing
                  People do things they don't enjoy to make money so they have an excuse to spend money on stupid crap that's supposed to bring happiness

                  They don't really have a money problem they have a personal happiness or lack of interest or excitement problem. That they hide with money issues. Give them more money and they might just get a few expensive drug habits or other vices.

                  But people are conditioned from an early age to think that way and the industrial education system is built around it. As it goes out of its way to make everything it teaches boring and a miserable slog

                  Once someone is around 25 a lot of the conditioning is done and it takes large amounts of effort over time to change. Unless there is a reality destroying event .

                  4 years ago when the income inequality stuff really got going. I kept hearing the line the 1 percent live of income from wealth which is taxed far less then earned income. So it was only then I started learning about wealth
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                  • Profile picture of the author art72
                    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                    4 years ago when the income inequality stuff really got going. I kept hearing the line the 1 percent live of income from wealth which is taxed far less then earned income. So it was only then I started learning about wealth
                    Giving some thought to How a Billionaire might see paying taxes could be summarized in a simple formula...

                    If you were a billionaire visionary and had a few 1000 employees...

                    Let's imagine; you treat your employee fairly (*as far as paying living wages) and give the motivated worker raises and reward those who actually work (as some employers still do...)

                    My argument would be simple; who would you rather GIVE that money to...

                    The I.R.S.?

                    or

                    The Employees?

                    I can see where "IF" you or I were billionaires and the IRS wanted MORE from us being self-employed (and they really do want MORE money from the self-employed - taxes are higher for self-employed and business owners, in case you are unaware)... so, if You or I were being HAMMERED by tax hikes (because we were rich, in this scenario) - what would say about getting taxed more?

                    I know what I'd say...

                    Keep increasing my taxes, I'll shut my business down - or - move the business out of the country to Costa Rica or some 3rd world country.

                    That would cause 1000's of people to lose their jobs, the IRS would lose the MONEY they get from BOTH the business owner and the employees, and the BILLIONAIRES know this...

                    They can move out of the country IF the IRS gets too greedy -or- if they have the POWER they can threaten to leave or fire everyone they hire as a means to combat the threat of having to pay MORE in taxes.

                    So, there are two sides to that debate.

                    I think the business owners and the self-employed should get TAX BREAKS as a means to pay employees better money - rather than give MORE to the IRS.

                    In case you cannot tell, I am neither a fan of the IRS - nor TOO keen on them (The IRS) running American business owners over to the point; they get better returns MOVING OUT of the USA - to run their business elsewhere... that causes more jobs lost as well.

                    This is actually happening. My wife and I did a small contract job for AT & T - they cleared out of an 80,000 sq. ft. warehouse (data center) and moved overseas... they refused to pay MORE TAXES.

                    I don't know too many people who LIKE the IRS - personally, I detest the manner they abuse their power. OUr grid (electrical, water, sewage, roads, etc.) is not highly rated... we are near a D-grade across the board, which to me indicates an abuse of tax dollars...

                    There is no excuse and before you make the accusation that business owners are greedy, you may have to set your sights on the IRS - as they choking business owners, self-employed, and the independent who earn good money.

                    I am not anti-taxes - I just think they need to clean up their mess. How many times can they tax the same dollar?

                    The GOOD NEWS about being in business or being self-employed is you can write-off almost everything you use, do, purchase, etc... as business expenses. A good accountant can get a business owner down to bear bone bottom base of paying LESS TAXES.

                    Do you really think businesses paying more taxes effects YOU?

                    I don't.

                    I think it cripples the business owners and forces a choice between paying you (the employee that money) or paying it to the IRS... and when it gets really stupid or the company GROWS HUGE - they hold more POWER than the IRS...

                    They can fire everyone, lay them off, move to Malaysia or another country and still own their business - nearly tax free and likely get cheaper local labor.

                    So it's a delicate issue indeed.

                    I personally do not favor the IRS, I chose to support the business owners - at least the decent one's that still remain in the USA.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Its really hard to have a conversation about "Wealth" and include Elon Musk in the discussion. His "Wealth" is Net Worth - that is not "Earned" but is actually an opportunity to buy stocks at a pre determined price.

                When we look at the current discourse of taxes and the wealthy - the numbers are so twisted its really not even funny... "Net Worth" is NOT "Income" Its an investment that has grown over time.. be it real estate or stocks etc. Its actual value is not determined til the day it sells - and at that point it becomes "Income". So to even suggest so and so worth X billion dollars isnt paying taxes is silly... Elon paying 11 BILLION this year suggests the system works... again odd man out Elon is ALL Net Worth - and earns NOTHING.

                You REALLY want to have a discussion you start looking at the likes of Bezos and Gates and Buffet, that have MASSIVE "Net Worths" that they somehow tax free transfer to "Foundations" and then spend away - through donation and pay nothing - for the good of the world no less - but if I transfer $600 to anyone, they are going to get taxed on that income - think about that one for a moment.

                The REAL question in my mind is not so much "Taxing the Rich" but how exactly is the taxes from the rich in turn transferred to the poor? Isnt that the whole discussion taking place the re-distribution of wealth right? Ive read how they plan on taxing the rich... but never once have i read how the money is going to end up in the hands of the poor - the TRUTH is, it isnt.

                All we hear is "Good Paying Jobs" and credits for kids and free this and free that - that wont cost the tax payers a dime ( sarcastically said), but aside from the credits for kids how exactly is the "Wealth" being re-distributed? And like it or not - truth be told Child Credits goto households earning up to $150,000 thats 25% there to the top 1% of income earners.

                What gets super interesting here it comes down to some very minor technicalities as to who gets Taxed, and who has deductions to lesson tax.... A registered business name and a business bank account - is the first steps to operating financially like the rich.

                If you have a job... you have a car to get back and forth. Is in any way shape or form that car a deduction? NOPE... but You have a Job... and you have a little side hussle, say eBay.... A PORTION of that cars expenses become a deduction... Gas, Insurance, taxes, etc etc. When you have a JOB, is your cel phone a deduction? NOPE.. A small side hussle? 100% a deduction - Your Internet - a deduction, business cards - deduction Rent a storage locker to store stuff - a deduction and the list can go on and on.

                The BESY thing anyone can do - get a JOB... and start on a side hustle - Learn the financial ropes while you have the safety net of a JOB - and re-invest the side hustle income to get to a point that the side hussle is making at the very least the same as the Job.

                Registered Business name and a Business account puts anyone and everyone on a whole other level in regards to "Taxes" and yet ( https://morningconsult.com/2021/08/1...aphic-profile/ ) there is a mind boggling chunk of Americans that dont have a bank account at ALL - let alone a business account - and then a more than mind blowing amount that have accounts but use check cashing services or use money orders.

                And then you start to look at the demographics in all of this and you quickly realize the "re-distribution" is going to MISS 10% of the population... probably the ones that need it most.. the ones that probably didnt get stimulus checks or child credits.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Having nothing and having something are exactly the same thing

                - Norm Macdonald
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                • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                  Norm was full of gems. Comic genius. Philosopher extraordinare!

                  Truly a legend.

                  I prefer to have something, not agreeing with it being the same as having nothing.

                  Is this like the conclusion made by Napoleon Hill after all those books and writings on goals, success and reporting on leaders of industry...when he closed out his work with:

                  ultimately, it really doesn't matter. ??

                  I guess in a long term view, one of a what is life all about, what does it all mean, why are here...and having millennia to look back over, that in the end, what we do doesn't mean very much in the scheme of things?

                  Too deep for me.

                  I want food (something), clothing (something), shelter (something, somewhere) and if I don't have those things (nothing), it just isn't the same.

                  So, acknowledging how right on Norm was (and he was a brilliant success, eh?), in this instance, I might have to disagree with him.

                  But thanks for reminding us of one of the great thinkers or our times. RIP Norm.

                  GordonJ




                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  Having nothing and having something are exactly the same thing

                  - Norm Macdonald
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                  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                    Norm was full of gems. Comic genius. Philosopher extraordinare!

                    Truly a legend.

                    I prefer to have something, not agreeing with it being the same as having nothing.

                    Is this like the conclusion made by Napoleon Hill after all those books and writings on goals, success and reporting on leaders of industry...when he closed out his work with:

                    ultimately, it really doesn't matter. ??

                    I guess in a long term view, one of a what is life all about, what does it all mean, why are here...and having millennia to look back over, that in the end, what we do doesn't mean very much in the scheme of things?

                    Too deep for me.

                    I want food (something), clothing (something), shelter (something, somewhere) and if I don't have those things (nothing), it just isn't the same.

                    So, acknowledging how right on Norm was (and he was a brilliant success, eh?), in this instance, I might have to disagree with him.

                    But thanks for reminding us of one of the great thinkers or our times. RIP Norm.

                    GordonJ
                    The people around you and why they are around you are far more important. Are they there for shallow reasons because of the money or the stuff. Or does the money or stuff remove stress and support a far richer set of relationships.

                    Or are the people just negative and make the stuff or money harder to get.

                    I don't know how to better explain it

                    I just woke up so how ever this part sounds.

                    Ok from my enlightened view point there is no grander scheme or master plan . And if there was a master plan the master planner has the ability to change the plan.

                    So instead of the end of the world 20 years ago to wipe the stage clean as the world had plunged deep into darkness. The plan changed and slowly more and more light is flowing into the world. But with that light we are constantly seeing nasty stuff that was hidden in the darkness .

                    Things are not getting worse we are just more aware of how bad things have been.

                    So what are f there is no plan no meaning and right now in the grand scheme of things we have new sets of problems new solutions. And no idea what will happen in the next few weeks or months. That will be the most important for a time the a new more important thing.

                    Macro micro in your life some things you where use to always being there may be gone today but other options to replace them are abundant. You could have the most expensive dinner in the world one day . And a 1 dollar box of elbows, with a can of chili and a couple pack of Velveta cheese the next with so cheap beer.

                    And it I fully up to you how much joy you have with either.

                    Sometimes things do actually suck and sometimes times things are really great. But a vast majority of the time it fully in how you perceive things and the story you tell to get you to feel a certain way
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                    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                      You're implying that the SELF then, is the most important thing and how one feels is the guiding light?

                      The people around you, the place, the food, everything is about how it makes you feel?

                      I just can't buy into this. Maybe I'm inferring something that isn't there, but this appears a splinter of hedonism, albeit a masochistic one at that.

                      GordonJ


                      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                      The people around you and why they are around you are far more important. Are they there for shallow reasons because of the money or the stuff. Or does the money or stuff remove stress and support a far richer set of relationships.

                      Or are the people just negative and make the stuff or money harder to get.

                      I don't know how to better explain it

                      I just woke up so how ever this part sounds.

                      Ok from my enlightened view point there is no grander scheme or master plan . And if there was a master plan the master planner has the ability to change the plan.

                      So instead of the end of the world 20 years ago to wipe the stage clean as the world had plunged deep into darkness. The plan changed and slowly more and more light is flowing into the world. But with that light we are constantly seeing nasty stuff that was hidden in the darkness .

                      Things are not getting worse we are just more aware of how bad things have been.

                      So what are f there is no plan no meaning and right now in the grand scheme of things we have new sets of problems new solutions. And no idea what will happen in the next few weeks or months. That will be the most important for a time the a new more important thing.

                      Macro micro in your life some things you where use to always being there may be gone today but other options to replace them are abundant. You could have the most expensive dinner in the world one day . And a 1 dollar box of elbows, with a can of chili and a couple pack of Velveta cheese the next with so cheap beer.

                      And it I fully up to you how much joy you have with either.

                      Sometimes things do actually suck and sometimes times things are really great. But a vast majority of the time it fully in how you perceive things and the story you tell to get you to feel a certain way
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                      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                        You're implying that the SELF then, is the most important thing and how one feels is the guiding light?

                        The people around you, the place, the food, everything is about how it makes you feel?

                        I just can't buy into this. Maybe I'm inferring something that isn't there, but this appears a splinter of hedonism, albeit a masochistic one at that.

                        GordonJ
                        I am in constant pain and medications just made things worse when I tried that route..

                        So my path is bumping around until I figure out how to be pain free permanently.


                        The masochistic stuff is unavoidable as I don't know what works to reduce or increase the amount of pain.

                        The guiding light for me is that actually figuring this ou will most likely give me some way to help others or guide them to permanent positive solutions
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                        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                          I've been reading this thread Odahh, and I wish I could offer something to be helpful. : (

                          When I was struggling in Life, I found the following quotation from Christophe Reeve helpful: "A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles." I know Life can be difficult sometimes ... However there's always something to learn that will make you more successful.

                          The greater the "struggle", the greater the success. Plus you have The Mind_Warrior Forum (etc.) to help you. : )

                          HTH
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                          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                            Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                            I've been reading this thread Odahh, and I wish I could offer something to be helpful. : (

                            When I was struggling in Life, I found the following quotation from Christophe Reeve helpful: "A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles." I know Life can be difficult sometimes ... However there's always something to learn that will make you more successful.

                            The greater the "struggle", the greater the success. Plus you have The Mind_Warrior Forum (etc.) to help you. : )

                            HTH
                            I don't care about being a hero. I have gone through so much struggle , pain, and suffering. With there being no real help available that did not make things worse.

                            I only have myself to really make things better for me. And what ever morals or ethics I have. I will only take paths to improve my self that will also benefit others. Or at least not take away from others.

                            I have no desire to lash out at the world. Only rebel against a world that tries to get me to settle or accept the thick crap sandwich in front of me as the best I should expect and that I should be happy with that the rest of my life.

                            No matter how bad things get I can always find some way to improve to look forward to much better in the future.

                            I can also manage to do that and eventually teach others how. Without them having to go through the trials I have had
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                            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                              I don't care about being a hero. I have gone through so much struggle , pain, and suffering. With there being no real help available that did not make things worse.
                              Fair enough Odahh. However what if becoming a "Hero" would mean that you could help even more People? As someone told me once it's important to become "The Hero Of Your Life". Similarly, Hellen Keller said: "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing."

                              Ultimately -- to become successful in Life -- it takes a certain amount of belief, courage, and determination (etc). However it's certainly worth it. Another quotation that I like (from Muhammed Ali) is: "Suffer now and live the rest of your Life like a champion." Often when in the middle of a "challenge" it's difficult to see what's happening ... In retrospect though you can see how the situation was something to help you evolve.


                              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                              I only have myself to really make things better for me. And what ever morals or ethics I have. I will only take paths to improve my self that will also benefit others. Or at least not take away from others.
                              Sure. And I think it's admirable that you want to help other People ... Many People simply don't care. And I wish you the best of luck with that. : )

                              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                              I have no desire to lash out at the world. Only rebel against a world that tries to get me to settle or accept the thick crap sandwich in front of me as the best I should expect and that I should be happy with that the rest of my life.
                              I feel the same way: Sometimes People do that, it's not the right response -- and often leads to more "misery".

                              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                              No matter how bad things get I can always find some way to improve to look forward to much better in the future.

                              I can also manage to do that and eventually teach others how. Without them having to go through the trials I have had
                              Absolutely. : ) Very well said. And if you really mean that -- and actually live by that -- it's almost certain that will more successful. Life can be difficult sometimes ... As I've said before: "Just keep going".
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                              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                                You post a lot about living a successful life, what does that mean to you?

                                I have a hard time telling other people to live a successful life, when I have no idea what that means to THEM.

                                Maybe a day of SURVIVING crushing, debilitating pain is a success? What would you have this person DO to obtain YOUR idea of a successful life?

                                GordonJ



                                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                                Fair enough Odahh. However what if becoming a "Hero" would mean that you could help even more People? As someone told me once it's important to become "The Hero Of Your Life". Similarly, Hellen Keller said: "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing."

                                Ultimately -- to become successful in Life -- it takes a certain amount of belief, courage, and determination (etc). However it's certainly worth it. Another quotation that I like (from Muhammed Ali) is: "Suffer now and live the rest of your Life like a champion." Often when in the middle of a "challenge" it's difficult to see what's happening ... In retrospect though you can see how the situation was something to help you evolve.




                                Sure. And I think it's admirable that you want to help other People ... Many People simply don't care. And I wish you the best of luck with that. : )



                                I feel the same way: Sometimes People do that, it's not the right response -- and often leads to more "misery".



                                Absolutely. : ) Very well said. And if you really mean that -- and actually live by that -- it's almost certain that will more successful. Life can be difficult sometimes ... As I've said before: "Just keep going".
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                                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                                  Great question GordonJ. I've mentioned it a couple of times ... However the best definition of "Success" (that I have found) is ... "The progressive realization of a worthy Ideal." [Earl Nightingale "The Strangest Secret."]

                                  Anyway for me that would be -- through my Website (etc.) -- to "Empower and inspire as many People as humanly possible." That's my "passion". That's what keeps me taking action and making it a reality.

                                  All that said, I honestly think "Success" could be almost anything.

                                  [Added=]
                                  To define "Successful Life" (in general) I think if People are happy -- truly happy -- then they're successful I suppose ... (And for me to reach that level of "Happyness" and even "Self-Actualization" -- I had to overcome several difficult/important "Challenges").
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                                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                                    I grew up listening to Earl on records and the radio. I thought of him the first time I went to Ford Island and passed the USS Arizona memorial, which Earl was onboard when Pearl Harbor was attacked.

                                    And that is a good definition, one of the things is, what is WORTHY? And my opinion changed over the years, because the so called American Dream I was sold in my remnant Happy Days, didn't have much appeal to me.

                                    I like your definition, and it is probably as good as anything else, as for being able to Empower people, I won't get into that, believing it to be a modern falsehood of coaches, gurus and others who would have us do things their way.

                                    I don't think anyone can Empower someone else, personal power comes from within, not given, but that's just me.

                                    GordonJ

                                    Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                                    Great question GordonJ. I've mentioned it a couple of times ... However the best definition of "Success" (that I have found) is ... "The progressive realization of a worthy Ideal." [Earl Nightingale "The Strangest Secret."]

                                    Anyway for me that would be -- through my Website (etc.) -- to "Empower and inspire as many People as humanly possible." That's my "passion". That's what keeps me taking action and making it a reality.

                                    All that said, I honestly think "Success" could be almost anything.

                                    [Added=]
                                    To define "Successful Life" (in general) I think if People are happy -- truly happy -- then they're successful I suppose ... (And for me to reach that level of "Happyness" and even "Self-Actualization" -- I had to overcome several difficult/important "Challenges").
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                                      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                      I grew up listening to Earl on records and the radio.

                                      I don't think anyone can Empower someone else, personal power comes from within, not given, but that's just me.

                                      GordonJ
                                      How ever this may come across. Empowerment is based on how much you enjoy what you do every day and with your life. And appreciation of what happens in your day to day life.

                                      If feelings are a guiding light from where I am now those two are the guides

                                      I can manage the second part and I have not found the first part but I have never had to do anything I have any guilt about.

                                      The only guilt I have is not starting this zigzagging in my early 20's when I had the urge and waiting until I was broken in many ways and in my late 30's
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                                      Hi GordonJ. Thanks for the reply.
                                      : )

                                      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                      I don't think anyone can Empower someone else, personal power comes from within, not given, but that's just me.
                                      The Cambridge English Dictionary defines "Empower" to mean: "To encourage and support the ability to do something." For example, a Person may have the goal to achieve Financial Freedom, and a Marketer/Entrepreneur can help facilitate that by giving them a Guide/eBook on how to make money with YouTube videos ...

                                      Of course -- similar to what you said -- they have to do the work themselves.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                                        Darn Cambridge, albeit, I would say... to encourage and support without fee, as we do here at the WF, tons of that kind of empowerment.

                                        But if one PAYS an authority to receive power, they first must grant said authority acknowledgement they have the abiltiy to transfer power.

                                        All fee based encouragement is transactional, and it is in act, a buying of the power.

                                        If someone pays to be empowered to do anything, they should examine the reason why they don't use/exercise their power to begin with, and maybe it is ignorance, which can be overcome with learning, but that differs greatly from someone who supports and encourages you with compensation attached. To pay for the knowledge is one thing, to receive power which is rightfully yours to begin with, is a shame (and a sham).

                                        GordonJ


                                        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                                        Hi GordonJ. Thanks for the reply.
                                        : )



                                        The Cambridge English Dictionary defines "Empower" to mean: "To encourage and support the ability to do something." For example, a Person may have the goal to achieve Financial Freedom, and a Marketer/Entrepreneur can help facilitate that by giving them a Guide/eBook on how to make money with YouTube videos ...

                                        Of course -- similar to what you said -- they have to do the work themselves.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                                          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                          Darn Cambridge, albeit, I would say... to encourage and support without fee, as we do here at the WF, tons of that kind of empowerment.
                                          Sure. There's definitely a certain amount of "Empowerment" However (IMO) it could definitely be a lot more .. Several (many?) years ago The Forum was a much more supportive Place.

                                          [Edit=] Well maybe not: Just seems that way,

                                          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                          But if one PAYS an authority to receive power, they first must grant said authority acknowledgement they have the ability to transfer power.
                                          Yeah, that makes sense to me, I guess. What do you mean by "Power?"

                                          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                          All fee based encouragement is transactional, and it is in act, a buying of the power.

                                          If someone pays to be empowered to do anything, they should examine the reason why they don't use/exercise their power to begin with, and maybe it is ignorance, which can be overcome with learning,
                                          Maybe so. However I'm guessing you haven't been there when a Person doubts themselves and are (rightfully) looking for solutions to their Problems?

                                          (IMO) If people feel "empowered" by what they're leaning (etc.) ... And they're using it to become more successful... Then I think it's a good thing.


                                          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                          but that differs greatly from someone who supports and encourages you with compensation attached. To pay for the knowledge is one thing, to receive power which is rightfully yours to begin with, is a shame (and a sham).
                                          I understand. (I think.) Some People are scamming People. Most People though -- I hope -- are just being helpful.
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                                          "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                                              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                                              I do not care about empowering people.

                                              I care about teaching them to tell a better story about what isor what has happened.

                                              I think I make biases clear unless people choose to fix the issues causing the problems in their lives
                                              Hi Odahh. Thanks for the post.

                                              The word "Story" has been defined as: "An account of past events in someone's life or in the development of something." Essentially, we are all living out our own "Stories" -- and I completely understand that sometimes those "Stories" can be "negative" etc. ...

                                              However that best part is that -- ultimately -- we all have the opportunity to start creating a different "Story" in our Lives. It's not necessary easy ... However it is possible and definitely worth it. And it all begins with a Person's Mindset: "When they understand that somehow -- someway -- no matter what -- they can overcome their "past" (etc.) ... Then they definitely can.

                                              P.S. Wish I could be more helpful. Ultimately the point is that by changing your "Thinking" (etc.) you can change your Life.
                                              HTH

                                              [Edit=] My apologies Odahh deleted the original post. Maybe my post would be helpful anyway?
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                                              "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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                                          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                                            Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post


                                            However I'm guessing you haven't been there when a Person doubts themselves and are (rightfully) looking for solutions to their Problems?
                                            I get it. You have overcome your personal struggles, your mental health issues, and like many a "former" or oft reformed person becomes a zealot; alcohol, tobacco, drugs, etc. ...people who have been gripped by a debilitating addiction or illness.

                                            I do get it. I spent 15 years working with, living with and BEING there for a wide variety of people looking for solutions to their problems.

                                            All your positive rah-rah has worked for you, you are a believer, a disciple of the think poitive and life changes for you, and because it worked for you, you tell everyone else that is what they need to do. It is your default. Which is fine, you only get my dander up when you make these kind of statements, along with ones you delete, like the cynic post...as long as you are posting your opinions, fine and dandy, start getting personal and you're going to get a different reaction.

                                            I've seen many folks struggle for years, never escaping their problems but sinking deeper in the quagmire of positive thinking to the point they become delusional.

                                            And then everyone avoids them.

                                            Happy for you all those happy thoughts have worked for you, deep mental and emotional scars may need more than some fill in the gaps pablam.

                                            GordonJ
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                                              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                              I get it. You have overcome your personal struggles, your mental health issues,

                                              I've seen many folks struggle for years, never escaping their problems but sinking deeper in the quagmire of positive thinking to the point they become delusional.

                                              And then everyone avoids them.

                                              Happy for you all those happy thoughts have worked for you, deep mental and emotional scars may need more than some fill in the gaps pablam.

                                              GordonJ
                                              My past is generally the way it was because I have multiple underlying health problems. That where undiagnosed. The actions I took and the lifestyle I lived the work and the work hours. Where the opposite of what I should have been doing. So the zigzagging has been trying different things seeing what works and what does not.

                                              I just moved to Las Vegas on Monday and ended up in the hospital because my blood pressure was 200/140 on Tuesday.. so I will adjust my no medications policy to only blood pressure medications.

                                              I can't change the past. I can better understand what I did or did not do for things to have gotten so bad.

                                              I think the only way to empower anyone is to get them to accept the actions they take in their lives matter. It also takes a length of time for many of those actions to show results.

                                              I spent nearly 20 years messing my health up so it been the last five figuring out. What I need to do to be healthy.

                                              Now shift to business and entrepreneurship. It seems many entrepreneurs that succeed are either people who start early. Or people who build skills in jobs over 20 years. Then learn the business skills needed to work for themselves.

                                              How do you take someone who has been conditioned to work a job and has only done jobs they don't like. Who may not have any marketable skills.and turn them into entrepreneurs. And for this question. I'll define an entrepreneur as someone who builds a business that they can be fired from. And the business will continue on.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                                                Originally Posted by Odahh View Post


                                                How do you take someone who has been conditioned to work a job and has only done jobs they don't like. Who may not have any marketable skills.and turn them into entrepreneurs. And for this question. I'll define an entrepreneur as someone who builds a business that they can be fired from. And the business will continue on.
                                                The two basic schools of thought are Entrepreneurs are born not made, and, a worker bee CAN become one when motivated (moved) enough. I' m sure there are many differing opinions on this.

                                                You are right about CONDITIONING, and so job one would be to UNcondition, to change the habitual routine, and that always begins with AWARENESS and desire.

                                                Anyone can build a business, and many do, and fail rather quickly, within a few years. Now these are old world stats, but I guarantee if one were to include these in data of start-ups: Internet Marketers, MLM/Network, Affiliate, Service Providers....

                                                The failure rate would be astronomical. To build that business to get fired from, would have to be a pretty decent sized family business where each member has a vote in management, or in a business where share holders (as in public companies) have a say in things.

                                                For the vast majority of Entrepreneurs, most build a smaller business, even up to 100 employees, and maintain family control over it. The founder has built in the succession, or what happens if he dies, or becomes unable to perform his duties, many such small companies are going the employee owned route, and over time, they become the share holders.

                                                I honestly have never met an Entrepreneur with that on her mind, the idea of losing control down the road, of getting fired, in fact, I would wager it is in the minds of zero Entrepreneurs at their start up.

                                                But it goes back to INTENT, What does the Ent. want from the business? And as we have frequently discussed recently, satisfaction and fulfillment, the doing what you love thing is as good a guiding principle as any.

                                                If the employee you refer to is tired of that life, doing what he hates for a paycheck, then the responsibility falls squarely on his shoulders...as it does with you and your attempt to restore health. Some people are too far gone in their health, they have passed the point of no return and have done irreparable damage to themselves.

                                                That may be true also with people who hate their jobs or income methods too.

                                                Desire, have a realistic want/goal and then a plan of action serves everyone well.

                                                I don't believe this person you present as an example can ever be 'EMPOWERED', they have the power to change, but no one can give it to them.

                                                Every employee has SURRENDERED parts of free will to his employer for the security of a check, an Entrepreneur does not do this, they take the risk.

                                                GordonJ

                                                And some are just not cut out for Entrepreneurship, but they can find work/paycheck which could still be enjoyable or pleasant to get.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                                                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                                  The two basic schools of thought are Entrepreneurs are born not made, and, a worker bee CAN become one when motivated (moved) enough. I' m sure there are many differing opinions on this.

                                                  You are right about CONDITIONING, and so job one would be to UNcondition, to change the habitual routine, and that always begins with AWARENESS and desire.

                                                  Anyone can build a business, and many do, and fail rather quickly, within a few years. Now these are old world stats, but I guarantee if one were to include these in data of start-ups: Internet Marketers, MLM/Network, Affiliate, Service Providers....

                                                  The failure rate would be astronomical. To build that business to get fired from, would have to be a pretty decent sized family business where each member has a vote in management, or in a business where share holders (as in public companies) have a say in things.

                                                  For the vast majority of Entrepreneurs, most build a smaller business, even up to 100 employees, and maintain family control over it. The founder has built in the succession, or what happens if he dies, or becomes unable to perform his duties, many such small companies are going the employee owned route, and over time, they become the share holders.

                                                  I honestly have never met an Entrepreneur with that on her mind, the idea of losing control down the road, of getting fired, in fact, I would wager it is in the minds of zero Entrepreneurs at their start up.

                                                  But it goes back to INTENT, What does the Ent. want from the business? And as we have frequently discussed recently, satisfaction and fulfillment, the doing what you love thing is as good a guiding principle as any.

                                                  If the employee you refer to is tired of that life, doing what he hates for a paycheck, then the responsibility falls squarely on his shoulders...as it does with you and your attempt to restore health. Some people are too far gone in their health, they have passed the point of no return and have done irreparable damage to themselves.

                                                  That may be true also with people who hate their jobs or income methods too.

                                                  Desire, have a realistic want/goal and then a plan of action serves everyone well.

                                                  I don't believe this person you present as an example can ever be 'EMPOWERED', they have the power to change, but no one can give it to them.

                                                  Every employee has SURRENDERED parts of free will to his employer for the security of a check, an Entrepreneur does not do this, they take the risk.

                                                  GordonJ

                                                  And some are just not cut out for Entrepreneurship, but they can find work/paycheck which could still be enjoyable or pleasant to get.

                                                  Gordon

                                                  I get it. But why is it the kind of entrepreneurs who build smaller businesses ignored. While the ones who get studied an talked about the most are the ones whos success can't be copied or modeled get the most attention.

                                                  As far as failure and success compared to jobs. Many jobs only last a few years maybe even a few months. And if someone just goes from working a job to a business then finds another job or a job and a business.

                                                  In the end does the business provide enough income for the person owning it to live off of. If it does for several years and for some reason stops and the owner either gets a job or starts another business.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                                                    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                                                    Gordon

                                                    I get it. But why is it the kind of entrepreneurs who build smaller businesses ignored. While the ones who get studied an talked about the most are the ones whos success can't be copied or modeled get the most attention.

                                                    As far as failure and success compared to jobs. Many jobs only last a few years maybe even a few months. And if someone just goes from working a job to a business then finds another job or a job and a business.

                                                    In the end does the business provide enough income for the person owning it to live off of. If it does for several years and for some reason stops and the owner either gets a job or starts another business.
                                                    Maybe by media/publicity machines; they like to catch attention with Billionaires and what shenanigans they are up to, but the real Entrepreneur is studying and modeling those successes which they can emulate.

                                                    And there is nothing wrong with having a job, except when you HATE your job, the reason so many don't or can't live off of their business for a sustained business, can most often be traced back to the beginning and making decisions out of want/need rather than cold hard facts and figures. The math is the most ignored part of these types of businesses, or rather the lack of understanding it at the get go.

                                                    Having a job which one dislikes can be the motivation for moonlighting, spare income, part-time but if they don't have a viable plan to build a sustainable business, they will get involved in MLM, IM, or schemes.

                                                    GordonJ
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                                              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                                                Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                                                How do you take someone who has been conditioned to work a job and has only done jobs they don't like. Who may not have any marketable skills.and turn them into entrepreneurs.
                                                Any singular task at a "JOB" can be leveraged... a Cashier... Public Relations - stocking shelves... If you are really paying attention to what you are stocking and how often... can tell you a lot about your local market.

                                                So its not just about the TASK... its about the DATA or skill set from doing that task that can be leveraged.

                                                Many many many skills translate pretty universally... selling TV's at Best Buy... selling is selling is selling... upselling, pushing a sale towards a preffered purchase... all handy skills - that translate at their cores right into IM.

                                                Its not the WHAT, its the HOW, and its the HOW that is most overlooked and most transferable.

                                                Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                                                And for this question. I'll define an entrepreneur as someone who builds a business that they can be fired from. And the business will continue on.
                                                I dont get this part... I cant be fired - its all mine - If I stepped away at this point, which I am doing slowly it will operate... but that is a shift from "Owner Operator" to just 'Owner"
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                                                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                                                  Any singular task at a "JOB" can be leveraged... a Cashier... Public Relations - stocking shelves... If you are really paying attention to what you are stocking and how often... can tell you a lot about your local market.

                                                  So its not just about the TASK... its about the DATA or skill set from doing that task that can be leveraged.

                                                  Many many many skills translate pretty universally... selling TV's at Best Buy... selling is selling is selling... upselling, pushing a sale towards a preffered purchase... all handy skills - that translate at their cores right into IM.

                                                  Its not the WHAT, its the HOW, and its the HOW that is most overlooked and most transferable.



                                                  I dont get this part... I cant be fired - its all mine - If I stepped away at this point, which I am doing slowly it will operate... but that is a shift from "Owner Operator" to just 'Owner"
                                                  I my need a few more days to mentally recover and better explain what I meant by fire.

                                                  You build businesses you can sell . In your case the the rapid growth and scaling of a business may depend on your skills. But once you have had your fun you can sell the business to someone else. Then build the next.

                                                  I was thinking about Steve Jobs and apple when I said fired. He got fired and apple went on went back grew the company more and passed on and apple is still around
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                                                    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                                                    I was thinking about Steve Jobs and apple when I said fired. He got fired and apple went on went back grew the company more and passed on and apple is still around
                                                    Steve Jobs was fired... then "re-hired" and has since passed. Apple will never see another 1984 or an iPhone - will it continue, sure... but it will probably never grow like it it did under the helm of Steve Jobs.

                                                    Much like Tesla / Space X - without Elon... there maybe capital growth but the innovation growth simply will not be there. Something as stupid simple as a battery that is a continual roll of a material and placing a continual plus and minus across the top and bottom of the roll to achieve greater power output... batteries have been around for how long? and it takes Elon Musk to absolutely revolutionize batteries? The difference between disposable energy vs wanting a million mile car... it is a breathtakingly simple solution to an age old problem ( https://medium.com/0xmachina/the-tes...h-8f032fb67b81 )

                                                    And its THIS as to why people Talk about these Billionaire types... they arent Owners of a business... they are not just operators of a business. They are innovators of business. And for ME... its the innovation of these minds that is just aww inspiring.
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                                                    • Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                                                      the helm of Steve Jobs.

                                                      When boats pushed out to sea
                                                      become observably transformational knobs,
                                                      now you jus' switch 'em on
                                                      an' opin wide your gobs.

                                                      As it toins out, I don't much favor Apple, but I get the point.

                                                      Weird stuff goes on at the helm, tellya.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                                              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                              All your positive rah-rah has worked for you, you are a believer, a disciple of the think positive and life changes for you, and because it worked for you, you tell everyone else that is what they need to do. It is your default. Which is fine, you only get my dander up when you make these kind of statements, along with ones you delete, like the cynic post...as long as you are posting your opinions, fine and dandy, start getting personal and you're going to get a different reaction.
                                              You're right. Most of the time -- I hope -- I am just expressing my opinions and contributing to the Discussions.

                                              I've been through a lot in my Life and I'm certain some of what I've learned and experienced can be helpful for other People. You can call it "Rah Rah" if you like -- it doesn't make any difference to me -- because it's (literally) been Life-Changing ... And although I may not be accurate 100% of the time, when I see an opportunity where some of what I've learned could be helpful -- I'm going to share it, just in case.

                                              And you're right again -- I shouldn't have posted the cynic post. (That's why I deleted it and apologized personally/by PM.)
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                                            • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                              I've seen many folks struggle for years, never escaping their problems but sinking deeper in the quagmire of positive thinking to the point they become delusional.
                                              I know somebody like this. Delusional is a bit harsh, it's more a lack of farsighted planning.

                                              I mean technically a low income is not a death sentence in a western country, but it's at the age of 50-60-70 that he might have serious regrets, the way its going.


                                              Having no sense of failure, is like having no sense of physical pain. You could rip an arm out and not notice.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                                                Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                                I know somebody like this. Delusional is a bit harsh, it's more a lack of farsighted planning.

                                                I mean technically a low income is not a death sentence in a western country, but it's at the age of 50-60-70 that he might have serious regrets, the way its going.


                                                Having no sense of failure, is like having no sense of physical pain. You could rip an arm out and not notice.
                                                I have gone through what I have gone through. And low income is a ticket to early death at this point and probable periods of homelessness. Which long term homelessness leads to early death.

                                                If someone can gain control of one of their lives and develop long term self discipline to improve some area of their lives can then work on all areas of their lives.

                                                Eliminating bad health habits and bad wealth or bad money habits. While working on the easy habits to develop. I'm biased though. I have to believe I will get better in the future or improve .
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                                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                                  You post a lot about living a successful life, what does that mean to you?

                                  I have a hard time telling other people to live a successful life, when I have no idea what that means to THEM.

                                  Maybe a day of SURVIVING crushing, debilitating pain is a success? What would you have this person DO to obtain YOUR idea of a successful life?

                                  GordonJ
                                  I know people worse off than me who can't get better. I can have those days in debilitating pain but I have learned how to get back to minimal or almost no pain.I have a day or two every few months I feel really good. No pain a lot of energy..

                                  Success from this point would be to have nearly every day like that..

                                  But then there is achieving an income level ithat sustains the lifestyle needed and doesn't cause more physical pain or stress.

                                  Being pain free and having a way to earn money I enjoy and gives me a reason to get out of bed.
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              • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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                Wow arrived late to this party but some phenomenal insights shared.

                I was in a FB group recently and someone was raving about Elon Musk. Maybe that name triggered me.

                I replied Musk, Bezos, Zuckerburg, and ConYe are some scary Billionaires.

                My type of Billionaire would be Bruce Wayne.

                And not sure if Elon is The Riddler or The Joker.

                And before you needle me that Bruce Wayne is fiction I could share facts on those mentioned above that are much stranger than fiction.


                Elon the Black Belt Troll.

                Bezos had record profits in a Pandemic then decided to lower affiliate commissions in a pandemic.

                Zuckerburg...The Movie "Social Network" says it all.

                ConYe....Recent quote to person dating his ex..."I Have Money I Can Hurt You."
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                • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                  FACT: Everyone you mention has grown an extra leg, they NO longer put their pants on one leg at a time.

                  And, they all have got an extra mouth to talk out of, so they have one where they tell us what they are going to do, and the other which tells their minions to do the opposite.

                  When discussion in any group goes to what celeb Billionaires and even those who are claiming to be one, ala ______ , we should wonder why this group of people is held in such high regard. As a card carrying George Carlin fan (good HBO documentary on now), and acknowledging both right and left have a holes leading their groups.

                  So, how many people have read Bezo's or Zucks, or Elon's HOW TO GET RICH book, all you have to do is do what I did.

                  These aren't outliers, they are from outer space.

                  One thing which seems to come along with money, especially at unimaginable levels for us mortals, is...their brains expand, and they know more than we do, and often, they know what is best for us too.

                  And that is the big problem I have with their followers. Mindless, non thinking sheep blinded by the bling, and looking up Mt. Olympus where they have placed their gods.

                  No thanks, Give me a Burt Morgan, an Ed Barr, or a Harvey Brody, men who have achieved success and made tons of money in the process, who remain able to put their pants on like us human beans do.

                  GordonJ


                  Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

                  Wow arrived late to this party but some phenomenal insights shared.

                  I was in a FB group recently and someone was raving about Elon Musk. Maybe that name triggered me.

                  I replied Musk, Bezos, Zuckerburg, and ConYe are some scary Billionaires.

                  My type of Billionaire would be Bruce Wayne.

                  And not sure if Elon is The Riddler or The Joker.

                  And before you needle me that Bruce Wayne is fiction I could share facts on those mentioned above that are much stranger than fiction.


                  Elon the Black Belt Troll.

                  Bezos had record profits in a Pandemic then decided to lower affiliate commissions in a pandemic.

                  Zuckerburg...The Movie "Social Network" says it all.

                  ConYe....Recent quote to person dating his ex..."I Have Money I Can Hurt You."
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                  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                    FACT: Everyone you mention has grown an extra leg, they NO longer put their pants on one leg at a time.

                    And, they all have got an extra mouth to talk out of, so they have one where they tell us what they are going to do, and the other which tells their minions to do the opposite.

                    When discussion in any group goes to what celeb Billionaires and even those who are claiming to be one, ala ______ , we should wonder why this group of people is held in such high regard. As a card carrying George Carlin fan (good HBO documentary on now), and acknowledging both right and left have a holes leading their groups.

                    So, how many people have read Bezo's or Zucks, or Elon's HOW TO GET RICH book, all you have to do is do what I did.

                    These aren't outliers, they are from outer space.

                    One thing which seems to come along with money, especially at unimaginable levels for us mortals, is...their brains expand, and they know more than we do, and often, they know what is best for us too.

                    And that is the big problem I have with their followers. Mindless, non thinking sheep blinded by the bling, and looking up Mt. Olympus where they have placed their gods.

                    No thanks, Give me a Burt Morgan, an Ed Barr, or a Harvey Brody, men who have achieved success and made tons of money in the process, who remain able to put their pants on like us human beans do.

                    GordonJ

                    Well you are already a hero of mine but once you hit the Billion mark you are my fav super hero!
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                    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                      Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

                      Well you are already a hero of mine but once you hit the Billion mark you are my fav super hero!
                      Not sure what this means, however, some people do think that billionaires are something special, I do not.

                      Burt Morgan wasn't one, yet the FOUNDATIONS he and his wife set up are still providing funding for scores of people. Burt started over 30 businesses, co-founded one Fortune 500 (FASSON {avery-dennison}) and founded another MACTAC, a rare feat.

                      His legacy isn't one of being rich, or a known Billionaire, but he built the kind of success which continues to benefit people long after he left this place.

                      I know it is today's culture, to worship the rich and famous (or infamous), and it gives strugging people who can't even pay their rent something to dream of, but it really isn't very important to most Entrepreneurs, who are doing what they love and letting the money come from their work.

                      As far as "heros" go, I woud fancy myself one of the BOYS, and the first thing I might do with my superpower would be eliminate all my fans, punch them in their balls and tell them to get a life. But thank goodness my only power is imagined.

                      GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            As much as I believe the above statement to be true - look at 6 posts up from here,

            So these are HORRIBLE role models to those that have a passion for say someone with a passion for using a Sous-Vide machine Or Pokémon cards. There is a connection in what we are sayng..but not a CONNECTION - if that makes sense

            All 3 of us ( as examples ) can insert any product and or any service and have success... Claude can SELL it, I can build a business around it, and Gordon can write a report on how someone else might start such a business - but NONE of the 3 understand the core having a passion for X and how to translate that passion for X into dollars... and more specifically the struggles in getting started. And I think it is in this, that I know for myself I get frustrated ( strong term ) sometimes.


            My thoughts anyways
            Not all things people are passionate about make money and things that do people don't have the energy or passion and skills to build a growing business around it.

            Hopefully all goes well tomorrow and I start work next week. I can work on getting my license a car and a roof over my head. If my back holds out and I hope to jump to better pay pretty quick and there is plenty of overtime once I have a vehicle.

            One thing I have accomplished with all the navel gazing here is to vastly improve my ability to communicate with writing. Though auto correct is my enemy on that.

            With some financial resources I can put your 2 hour plan in place to build an income so I can at least always pay rent. So 1500$ a month.

            You all started your entrepreneurial journey in your teens early twenties . I'm not really into the business building thing. But jobs last a few years at most for many people now. And I need to build a stable income that I can keep flowing for 30 years.

            Previous jobs wore down my physical health and pulverized my mental state and I have just got everything back in order. Though my back is still questionable.

            As soon as I get an apartment this cute girl I have a great relationship with will move in with me and then I'll work on getting her to marry me. As long as I have no income and no place of my own she just doesn't like me in that way.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              Not all things people are passionate about make money and things that do people don't have the energy or passion and skills to build a growing business around it.
              ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in todays world in regards to a "Passion" CAN make money. The whole reason I did that thread on eBay.. we are talking with a phone and the ability to take photos with a white backdrop.. that is all the skills needed. That is specifically why I in almost all instances suggest the use of a platform to starta business..it takes all of the skill right out of the equation.

              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              Hopefully all goes well tomorrow and I start work next week. I can work on getting my license a car and a roof over my head. If my back holds out and I hope to jump to better pay pretty quick and there is plenty of overtime once I have a vehicle.
              Positive thoughts... I hope you get it!

              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              With some financial resources I can put your 2 hour plan in place to build an income so I can at least always pay rent. So 1500$ a month.
              It doesnt take much to start $1500 a month is very very doable

              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              You all started your entrepreneurial journey in your teens early twenties . I'm not really into the business building thing. But jobs last a few years at most for many people now. And I need to build a stable income that I can keep flowing for 30 years.
              I started in my single digit years... but I have some neighbors that are weeks from retiring and they are starting to resell stuff. They want to hold off on the SS payment til they are 70 and in a matter of weeks well on their way to achieving that goal

              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              As soon as I get an apartment this cute girl I have a great relationship with will move in with me and then I'll work on getting her to marry me. As long as I have no income and no place of my own she just doesn't like me in that way.
              Best of luck with that one!
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


            Gordon... I want to include you here... you are an unknown of sorts... I cant specifically pin down your Love / Passion... Any manor of ways that one can make money... if teaching is a reflection of what one needs to learn.. you teach this OFTEN. So how to start a business maybe your trigger?
            Thanks for including me...

            I love my kids,
            I love myself
            And other loves are
            up on my shelf.

            Great kids, got lucky there. Close without problem, concern or worry, truly blessed.

            Self? A long road to get there. But, it means from the meditations, contemplations, my own personal naval gazing...

            To love oneself is to CARE. To take care of.
            I respect my body, always have, never smoked, or was much of a drinker, didn't consume food for feelings. No addictions. Don't cuss or swear very often, cause that is being respectful of language and expression.

            To protect one's self from attacks of all natures.

            I learned very early on, criticism and praise were opposites sides of the same sword, JUDGEMENT, and I adopted the Judge not and glass houses and all that...or as some may put it, a very self centered, selfish, all about ME attitude.

            I consider myself to be a misanthrope humanitarian. Cordial, and even affable on demand.

            As for passions, I like how I described myself about 20 years ago, a MAPMAKER.

            Give me a destination, I'm pretty good at the route, the path, the obstacles...and the how to get there.

            Not so good at pushing your cart down the road.
            Terrible at carrying your water to the table.
            Absolutely awful at dragging you along my path.

            Maybe problem solving in general, I can get fired up about that...sometimes.

            Probably, more than anything, and this came at the expense of rock bottom experiences, that many of us had...

            I have the most passion about the now, this day...the past to occasionally remember, the future to behold, but the NOW, I guess that is where I like to keep my passion...that and a decent nap in the afternoon.

            GordonJ
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              As for passions, I like how I described myself about 20 years ago, a MAPMAKER.

              Give me a destination, I'm pretty good at the route, the path, the obstacles...and the how to get there.

              Not so good at pushing your cart down the road.
              Terrible at carrying your water to the table.
              Absolutely awful at dragging you along my path.

              Maybe problem solving in general, I can get fired up about that...sometimes.

              Probably, more than anything, and this came at the expense of rock bottom experiences, that many of us had...

              I have the most passion about the now, this day...the past to occasionally remember, the future to behold, but the NOW, I guess that is where I like to keep my passion...that and a decent nap in the afternoon.
              I had my first nap in years the other day... It was kinda nice actually LOL - but man did it throw a wrench in the rest of the day and about the day after - I was all kinds of out of sorts.

              Mapmaker... Ill take that... i totally get it - A to Z... I would then have to say that I am the same thing... For me... in business... all destinations are the same.. the only thing that changes is the method getting there... walking, biking, car, bus.... Selling veggies, websites, Ugly Christmas sweaters.. the path is exactly the same over and over and over.

              Rock Bottom is a thing... as far as I am concerned - a REQUIREMENT. I will go so far as to say that bailing someone out - can be a form of enabling - if not straight out enabling. I think the modern generation gaps are right there... rock bottom - those of us that have experienced it dont want ones we love to go through the same pain... but look where that logic has gotten us?
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


                Rock Bottom is a thing... as far as I am concerned - a REQUIREMENT. I will go so far as to say that bailing someone out - can be a form of enabling - if not straight out enabling. I think the modern generation gaps are right there... rock bottom - those of us that have experienced it dont want ones we love to go through the same pain... but look where that logic has gotten us?
                The bottom, is of course, different for us all. But going down the roller coaster is a life thrill, however frightening, that needs be experienced.

                Thanks for your thoughts on the whole idea of OWNING something online, it should be obvious, and to the Warrior who went from 6 figures a year to under 4 in a matter of months, beacause big mean ol Google changed its algorithm...well, THANKS, and for
                those who are only online, WHY?

                Big world out there, lots of dough to be made offline too.

                Power napping most resembles a contolled, sometimes guided meditation, and it is a habit, and not for everyone. Get to the REM quickly, and fast paced exercise upon awakening. Better than a case of Red Bull for sustained energy.

                GordonJ
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                Rock Bottom is a thing... as far as I am concerned - a REQUIREMENT. I will go so far as to say that bailing someone out - can be a form of enabling - if not straight out enabling. I think the modern generation gaps are right there... rock bottom - those of us that have experienced it dont want ones we love to go through the same pain... but look where that logic has gotten us?

                Not just enabling. You are weakening them You are turning them into a dependent.

                If someone I care about (or someone in business) has dug themselves into a deep hole, I'll hand them down a ladder. I'll shine a light to guide them. Heck, I may even cheer them on.

                What I won't do is take their place at the bottom of that hole. If I switch places with them (by bailing them out)...they now know one thing...they don't have to worry that much when they dig that second hole. And they know who to come to when they do.

                Want to ruin a relationship? Loan them money, and then remind them when they don't pay it back as agreed. Now you are the bad guy.

                I have a cousin that borrowed a half a million dollars for a new home, just before the 2008 recession. Yup, anyone could get a mortgage then.

                A few years later, he went bankrupt, and blamed the bank for unfair banking.

                When he told me his tale of woe, I asked him if they told him that he was borrowing the money, needed to make payments, and how much the payments were going to be.

                Of course...of course.

                So I said "You went to them and asked to borrow money you knew you couldn't pay back. You didn't pay back the money you asked for......Now you blame them because they want you to honor your agreement?"

                I'm the worst person in the world to tell that kind of story to..
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                "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    So I just saw this post today.

    I really need to start exploring all the sections more I guess.

    This is a great post Gordon...actually, it's probably one of the best ones I've seen in a long time.

    Thanks for taking the time to post this. I love this kind of information
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    I'm just glad I have a place to absorb all these brilliants minds, and get my azz kicked when needed.

    My mindset wasn't dialed-in to the internet completely. Although, looking at the workforce - it's becoming more laser focused and I appreciate those who understand what it takes to make a living from a laptop or a computer.

    Even savidge4 and Claude who clearly own offline businesses know a ton about selling, business, the process, and the FLOW...

    I DO NOT want another business with a 'glass ceiling' or where I need employees to run the business. I expect to need customer service and maybe outsource some design, video, or other areas in the future that I may not be best suited to do myself online... but, employees, no way! (*I tried hiring people for 20 years and it was too much going out, too much distraction, and it broke my FLOW from getting things done.)

    I broke down and got Thrive Themes and although I cursed that THING from here to Sweden and back after my purchase... *36 hours later - I custom designed a 3-page lander offering a FREE REPORT w/ email opt-in, confirm your email (*double-opt-in), and designed a cool download page with a UFO!

    Now... here's the funny part, thanks to Gordon, savidge4, and others here... I think to have finally figured out WHY I struggled to get a funnel built prior, I work back-ass-wards...

    The funnel is done... TESTED and working fluidly... YEAH! (*finally)

    Once they opt-in, they're redirect to page 2. "Check Your Email" (matches design) and THEN... once they confirm their subscription AWeber redirects them to the download link page 3. (*It's not a secure Thank-You page, but I added a bunch of miscl. text and numbers to try to keep people honest, LOL.

    BUT... here's the part that gets me, I haven't written one word in the report yet, because, now I am going to recreate the entire funnel step-by-step and document the whole PROCESS (now that I am confident it all works) - this way... later I can create a video series and sell that as an upsell, if they want the over the shoulder video training rather than the report.

    Plus, Thrive has a cheesy Apprentice plugin that allows for secure content (training courses, etc.) so I might as well utilize it all.

    It's like when I rebuilt my first V8 motor... I was excited and equally terrified! (*New territory) - but the next rebuild was 10x easier, after a few more tinkering's as a mechanic, the PROCESS became autonomous, or like Claude stated above; it becomes unconscious or 2nd nature... so, each funnel I build I now have a template to work from, whereas prior, I wasn't sure if it was going to work...like the first motor I rebuild. (*Which it did and it was a beast!)

    I didn't document as I built it... because I was too busy cussing the software and trying to learn it, now that I know what to do... I can screen-shot and create a step-by-step process, because later, when I do write more reports or create digital info products, if someone doesn't have a clue how to build a funnel, build a list, or create a basic website... THIS REPORT will have it covered.

    I know plenty of other people have videos, and teachings to just that - but, I need it for my future prospects and buyers, so I don't have to hold their hand, the report (and maybe a video walk through with a few modules) should solve that future problem...

    So that's my mindset. I am too particular at times, especially when it comes to design, artwork, and creating eCovers and Photoshop stuff.. I love it, but I don't know if it is normal to spend 50 hours on a FREE 3D Report Cover... some might say I was wasting time?

    Again... I don't have any of the content in the REPORT done yet - just the cover and dummy download PDF for testing the funnel - but, at least that part is done! LOL (*back-ass-wards, I guess. LOL)

    I still don't even know if I like the cover?... (I have about 25 more already designed - for reports I haven't even written yet) - so I have been doing SOME of the WORK... but I need to finish one whole project - hopefully by next weekend's end!

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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      I didn't document as I built it... because I was too busy cussing the software and trying to learn it, now that I know what to do... I can screen-shot and create a step-by-step process, because later, when I do write more reports or create digital info products, if someone doesn't have a clue how to build a funnel, build a list, or create a basic website... THIS REPORT will have it covered.
      As much as it "Appears" that Claude and I are offline business owners... One of Claudes books ( https://www.amazon.com/Local-Online-...s%2C833&sr=8-5 ) is how to basically leverage the internet for your offline business.

      Me personally... You have to understand about 1/3 of the business' I own or sectors of business are directly related to online services - Web Design, CRO ( Conversion Rate Optimization ), SEO, SociaMedia, etc etc Not to mention selling items on eBay, Amazon, Etsy, Bonanza, Facebook, Instagram and a few more.

      I would say that both of us are well versed in online selling... Claude as pointed out in this discussion is in a better place to actually TEACH the who what where and whens of this.. because I just know how to do it, and he had to teach himself. Now the actual Mechanics of who what where and when is MY wheel house

      #1 It is AWESOME to hear ( read ) you have taken action... there is a smile over my face right now

      So to the text copied from above. Hear me out on this.. you actually need to develop 2 business' A website that you are building now.. and a website that teaches all the things you are learning. So you want to sell "Exit Strategy" Sell that... you can then cross those that get on that list to your nuts and bolts of how to build a online business funnel.. So basically you are selling the BUSINESS model, and THEN the mechanics to make the business model work.

      On the Mechanics side, you want to affiliate offer THRIVE ( https://thrivethemes.com/affiliate-program/ ) you want to affiliate offer your hosting program - any tools and plugins etc etc etc.

      And again, I would want to keep these separate... because the first offer may come and go ( the business model ) but the how to build your business site is a forever parallel to what ever you may offer on the other side.

      I am sure you have read me say this a time or 2 but you want to be steps ahead of where you are right now... New products cycle... they are new and hot, and degrades over time... you then have to move to the next and the next and the next.

      YOU right now are concerned with what your FREE offer will be and have yet to think about what the PAY product will be...let alone the one after that and the one after that. I would suggest you are thinking backwards on this... you want the FREE to parallel the actual paid product. So develop the Paid product first,and then create a free product that is "usable" for that product to give for free

      The Mechanics of how to build an online business is a forever thing - but leveraged with actual online business that sell stuff is a whole other level... Built in Authority. follow?

      So an example I share is I sell keto stuff and a few other diet type programs the items with those verticals change right? My - CONSTANT - parallel is an affiliate store that sells the food that these diets would consume - recipes and eating out ideas yada yada SO food is my forever Constant site, and the others come and go and change over time but feed the constant site.

      Synergistic that removes the amount of tail chasing that most experience - Ive got this list I need to sell, and then find something else and sell and find something else and sell and sell and sell and sell. Somewhere in the midst of that - VALUE - giving value just gets thrown out the door.

      What happens when you stop selling - and allow the site itself to do that work - where that work belongs as far as I am concerned and your e-mail communications are strictly value that points them towards your constant site that adds even more value - and you profit from?

      Hope that Helps!
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        So to the text copied from above. Hear me out on this.. you actually need to develop 2 business' A website that you are building now.. and a website that teaches all the things you are learning. So you want to sell "Exit Strategy" Sell that... you can then cross those that get on that list to your nuts and bolts of how to build a online business funnel.. So basically you are selling the BUSINESS model, and THEN the mechanics to make the business model work.

        On the Mechanics side, you want to affiliate offer THRIVE ( https://thrivethemes.com/affiliate-program/ ) you want to affiliate offer your hosting program - any tools and plugins etc etc etc.

        And again, I would want to keep these separate... because the first offer may come and go ( the business model ) but the how to build your business site is a forever parallel to what ever you may offer on the other side.

        I am sure you have read me say this a time or 2 but you want to be steps ahead of where you are right now... New products cycle... they are new and hot, and degrades over time... you then have to move to the next and the next and the next.

        YOU right now are concerned with what your FREE offer will be and have yet to think about what the PAY product will be...let alone the one after that and the one after that. I would suggest you are thinking backwards on this... you want the FREE to parallel the actual paid product. So develop the Paid product first,and then create a free product that is "usable" for that product to give for free

        The Mechanics of how to build an online business is a forever thing - but leveraged with actual online business that sell stuff is a whole other level... Built in Authority. follow?

        So an example I share is I sell keto stuff and a few other diet type programs the items with those verticals change right? My - CONSTANT - parallel is an affiliate store that sells the food that these diets would consume - recipes and eating out ideas yada yada SO food is my forever Constant site, and the others come and go and change over time but feed the constant site.

        Synergistic that removes the amount of tail chasing that most experience - Ive got this list I need to sell, and then find something else and sell and find something else and sell and sell and sell and sell. Somewhere in the midst of that - VALUE - giving value just gets thrown out the door.

        What happens when you stop selling - and allow the site itself to do that work - where that work belongs as far as I am concerned and your e-mail communications are strictly value that points them towards your constant site that adds even more value - and you profit from?

        Hope that Helps!
        The selling the business model first and THEN selling the mechanics of how to make it work - that makes sense, that was part of my plan with affiliate offers sprinkled in the report and in my email follow ups...

        There's certainly a lot that 'comes and goes" - as I noticed - in just a few years, almost everything that I was familiar with has changed - mostly for the better. AWeber's dashboard totally revamped, just noticed ClickBank finally redesigned their marketplace, can't say if it's a better search engine yet(?) - definitely liking the new ' CB marketplace' layout, and StatCounter has gotten way better for tracking... but now it's a limited 30 -free trial. I haven't figured out Google analytics - that changed, I get that dialed back in too. If I use the products - does make it easier to promote as an affiliate.

        I'm trying not to look too far ahead, but as you mentioned having the authority website, the ONE site I intend to get legit with an LLC asap - is intended to be the main hub that I need to populate with quality content, articles, blogs, and occasional product release reviews, etc... and it may showcase my premium offers (*when they are ready and for sale). I definitely want to build that site as the BUSINESS - and the models may change, but I'll change with the times.

        Most of my tools I have affiliate accounts with, but I need to organize all my affiliate links and accts this week, as that was WHY I was willing to give-away the frontend report, but I think now, I may offer a cheat sheet or something worth their email, but not sacrifice the potential sale of "Exit Strategy" - it could easily be promoted as a premium product if I do it right... even cheap $7 trip wire or whatever.

        In the moment, it just seemed getting any offer up in exchange for their email would be a good way to start building trust with a cold audience and build a list. Plus, FREE OFFERS tend to build the list quicker, but without the authority site - I can see where that may actually get a bunch of bogus traffic, tire-kickers, or leads that are not really WARM to the offering(s) on the back end. Building a FREE LIST may kill my sales conversion rates, with a little more pre-sell my list would be stronger... or I'd hope it would be.

        So, if I understand you correctly, use the authority site to sell "Exit Strategy" as a low cost trip-wire ($7 - $47 maybe with bonuses) - monetize the mechanics on the back end, such as the JV/Affiliate tools and software I use - and then it can branch out into more intermediate or advanced level marketing offers as my email list grows... keep the "training" wheels turning out blog posts on another site as I learn. So, I am documenting it as I go and grow.

        But... you also stated build (2) businesses at a time, so I am teaching what I am learning on the one site... while the other is my business or authority site, then the learning site becomes the presell for the reports I create during (or shortly after) the build itself. - While it's fresh on the mind, and if need be I can edit it later.

        See I am trying to think like a teacher, which I am good student - I learn quick (usually, maybe not online, LOL) - but, if I can take a beginner from point A to point B - like getting them their 1st sale online, I know I'll never forget who helped me get my 1st online sales - Matthew Neer - he gave me FREE ACCESS to his membership Digital Bankroll, and wanted an honest review... I got sales, he got an honest review! Win/Win.

        Honestly, right now - I have no "pre-selling" -or- "pre-filtering" of (future) visitors to know where they are in their pursuits(?), and since I cannot afford to drop a chunk on traffic to split test certain offers yet or really get enough volume of traffic to know; what to keep (?) and what to scratch (?)- I imagine it will take some time before I establish a rapport with an audience or determine where the visitor is in their journey?

        I am fairly confident, I can write some wicked sales copy - I was more concerned for the authority type of writing as in the product creation, reports, and how I present the content as an authority... or in the least, create a bridge to an authority... if I am not creating the products to sell as my own.

        Lastly, I am not trying to "brand me" - only the business, I don't want to start selling me like some marketers do, then it becomes a JOB - and you can't transfer you - So "Exit Strategy" has some underlying meaning... I'm thinking Ray Krok and "Sarah bakes pies!"

        Thanks, yeah that helps. I'm reconsidering the manner I build my list too, I may want a more targeted audience than just random freebie seekers.

        Also thanks for the link to Claude's books... I have those on my read list now!
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          The selling the business model first and THEN selling the mechanics of how to make it work - that makes sense, that was part of my plan with affiliate offers sprinkled in the report and in my email follow ups...
          .
          The issue I have with you starting with "Exit Strategy"... you are working on a entrance strategy...

          "Relax, ' said the night man,
          'We are programmed to receive.
          You can check-out any time you like,
          But you can never leave!
          '"

          Authority here is an issue right? You know about as much in the world of online marketing as I do building pools... Your "Primary Site" needs to be a topic, you personally can carry an amount of knowledge and authority with.

          I am leaving out "Experience" here, As somewhere in one of these threads GordonJ started ( maybe this one ) he states you can interview someone with some directing questions and hit a target. How to start a X, and speak with someone that started X.

          I think you need to get your head around the actual path of your "Primary Site" Hey Im going to build a site and give away a piece of content to build a list... Thats not a viable working strategy.. you will have a list... and then what?

          To make this even more clear... I don't do "Lists" per se... I have a list of buyers and buyers only. If its "FREE" you can click a link and download it. Now I am not suggesting YOU do this... because the lessons learned by trying to give away a freeby in exchange for an e-mail is a skill that carries you forward. Its harder to give something away, than it is to flat out sell it.

          What you consider the "Secondary site" is going to actually be your money maker... all the mechanics type stuff is free material.. Hey look I know what I am doing stuff - Authority building... courses like How To Sell Clickbank Products - that throws all of the provided free information with the added step by step how to integrate the clickbank product... is $49 all day long - Insert CJ Affiliate, or PartnerStack, or Amazon or any number of affiliate hubs.

          Basics are FREE - read away - click on affiliate links of things I use... then the MONEY LIST, is people that want specific step by steps in each of these different platforms ( how often do I use THAT word - platform )

          Because once they are proven to buy ONE.. they will buy more. Go spend some amount of time reading the Offline forum... this very strategy is repeated over and over and over.

          Lets come at this from yet another direction..whats the absolute end goal here? Making money correct? So if you take your current strategy and work it backwards ( making a sale ) where does a free report fall? Its NOT at the end correct? no dollars in FREE.

          You need a report to SELL... then you can walk that backwards.. and what steps do you need to take to get THERE.

          Jumping back up to "courses like How To Sell Clickbank Products - that throws all of the provided free information with the added step by step how to integrate the clickbank product... is $49 all day long - Insert CJ Affiliate, or PartnerStack, or Amazon or any number of affiliate hubs." You may not get it NOW.. but the process for any and all of these are exactly the same... the process is again exactly the same for a product YOU create.

          YOU need to learn how to make money... in reverse order making a sale ( Z ) to buying a domain name ( A )

          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          Lastly, I am not trying to "brand me" - only the business, I don't want to start selling me like some marketers do, then it becomes a JOB - and you can't transfer you - So "Exit Strategy" has some underlying meaning...
          Let me throw some advice towards this. I build business' and I sell more than a few of them... No, I cant sell me..so none of my business' are personally branded. Thats probably going to change at some point in the near future - we shall see.

          So the absolute difference between "Personal Brand" and "Business Brand"? Turning I / ME into WE... thats it.

          Use a pen name "Mark Jones" and build "Business Builders" - if the opportunity presents itself at some point... you can sell "Mark Jones" AND "Business Builder".

          In the interaction with Claude above, I talk about sales being a team effort... so its not just ME.. its WE - So the client understand that the baton ( Project ) is going to be passed from me selling it to them, to my team fulfilling. THIS was a huge hurdle that took me years to over come... I still struggle with WE - cuz any and all of it at some level is MY Baby.

          Dollars.. thats what this is all about... you have to get there, and just starting your journey, you need to start at the end where the dollar comes in and work the process backwards. LISTS to build a list... why? THATS failure.

          I click to a page... hey free report.. how to X... on the next page "hey thanks for signing up.. your report will be in your inbox shortly - in the meantime we have this astounding offer...." The emails after getting the free report do what? Try and sell the astounding offer... once they BUY the offer... you nurture the relationship and offer further offers that they would be interested in - DOLLARS
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Definitely struck some good points.

    Yes, I am using pen name and trying to build brandable websites... as my "Exit Strategy" in the long-term.

    The main site (*which I want to be my baby) - would be [cultivate wealth] and I understand what you are saying I am climbing an uphill battle trying to start an authority site in the business opportunities, health, and overall well-being niche markets... as I am not an expert, but they are the evergreen markets I keep being drawn to for some reason. (DOLLARS)

    I feel to know enough to be ahead of a beginner, creeping up on being intermediate user of the net - I mean when I entered this forum, I barely knew how to create an email account, LOL.

    As far as the FREE - yeah, I think you've shifted my focus away from that whole concept. I know that a lot of marketers build huge email lists and then "filter' their list to align their subs with offers they would most likely benefit from or at least be interested in... segment the list or put them in a niche-specific bucket.

    I'm thinking more like a copywriter... everything becomes a CTA - I don't know with 100% assurance that I can align people with what they seek as an authority(?)- but the PLAN is to test offers - and get dollars coming in from affiliate offers - to give me more time and freedom to create Premium Reports, Mini-Courses, or build a body of written works... that is my real goal, to publish writings. At least that was what I aiming to be a well-paid writer... kind of expanded since I found this place.

    See this is where the lines get blurry... the conversation throughout this thread has toggled (2) key points;

    1.) You need to be passionate and "Do what you love"

    Well.. I agree, why do something you hate doing?

    But, the other...

    2.) Provide what others seek - SELL SOLUTIONS = $$$$

    So, I believe "helping others locate what they seek" could be the passion, and making money again - would be a nice side-effect!

    So, whereas, a football coach can take his team to victory (he knows the playbook) - others would say; "You cannot coach if you haven't played football" - I disagree. I imagine if the coach is a retired player, it helps, but a passionate coach may have never played, just loved the game to become a winning coach.

    Kind of like Charmin and Angel Soft... I don't think they are passionate about toilet paper - they solve a problem, sell solutions, and bank turning TP into DOLLARS.

    I didn't realize until Gordon mentioned Bill Meyers selling those chicken coop designs, I'd heard about that exploding as niche in CB, not sure if that was Bill Meyers, but that churned millions in sales, whoever it was. After having built my wife a chicken coop (*she wanted peacocks - they HONK too much, LOL) - I learned real quick people who raise chickens... are fanatical over their chickens... it's like they are their children. (*I loved having them and cheaper eggs... but I don't really get mushy over chickens.) Blew my mind though, some of these niche markets - you'd never guess could be gold mines.

    And... I am still trying to frame the authority site - the brand (or domain) sounds more like a financial consultancy firm than what I have in mind. Still a work-in-progress.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      I want you to start looking at people around you that you believe are successful... As examples here there is Claude, there is Gordon, there is myself - if you start paying attention, there is a pattern.. A really good example outside of those on the forum would be George Forman - and the George Forman grill.

      ok so ONE grill, but how many iterations? Countless... loss count... Do a search and you will about fall over.

      The COMMON Thread here is none of us are selling just one thing. Is there a store in existence that you are aware of that sells one item and one item only? Lets throw Baskin and Robbins in this... they just sell ice cream, but do they just sell vanilla, or do they sell 31 flavors? and cakes and ice cream sandwiches and and and

      Again, Baskin and Robbins being a good example of this... They sell within a vertical ( ice cream ) but also introduce parallel verticals ( ice cream cakes and ice cream cookies etc )

      George Forman... Little grills, family grills, 100sq In, 170+ sq inch , indoor, outdoor, Cook Books, Electric, Propane, Play Doh - an absolute Empire built on the diversity of a basic concept.

      Just to throw this in.. a example I use of a REALLY good Amazon affiliate site, (Not mine, but this is the model I follow ) https://foremangrillrecipes.com/best...oreman-grills/ ( and again not an affiliate... not the owner of the site )

      I have been saying... you really need to be thinking this through... And in NO WAY am I saying think this through before you get started... get started... but think about WHERE to get started.

      Odahh makes a better than valid point.. what exactly are you going to teach anyone about building wealth, if you havent yet?

      I have said this before... I will say it again... and probably again and again... DOCUMENT your process.

      What does that look like for YOU specifically right now? How to build a website? how to build a funnel? how to develop an e-mail list? How to develop a product to sell? and in a post above I gave you just the tip of an iceburg list of topics you could document as you go through them. ( Clickbank, CJ Affiliate, or PartnerStack, or Amazon or any number of affiliate hubs.) and create PRODUCTS

      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      So, I believe "helping others locate what they seek" could be the passion
      I said this above ( or maybe another thread ) the ONLY thing anyone and everyone is seeking is MONEY - and in turn perceived happiness - what can i BUY ( with the money I make ) to be HAPPY? 99% of the world right there. and anyone HALF "enlightened" will tell you money cant buy you happiness right?

      99% will spend money, to learn how to make money, and 99% of those will never apply any amount of effort in actually doing? The phrase "1%er" exists for a reason.

      Forget "THEM" Helping others and all of that ( I know this sounds whacked ) and apply the principles to yourself and yourself only - control the controllable... I cant control what you do with the information you are reading, but I can control what information I do give you to read.. follow? Does it make me happy to share this information, or am I half bent and pissed off and sharing my "Secrets" and repeating myself over and over?

      If just 1 person can follow my advice - its all worth it. I did my "job" and I feel good about it - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other side of this.. did 1 person actually follow my advice? I dont know... and I dont care.

      Thats why you can watch videos or be on the receiving end of that conversation "You Change My Life" and its EMOTIONAL AF - I did my JOB.

      The WHY here is YOUR Happiness, and the minute it is anything less / other than that... its failure waiting to happen - disappointment, and anxiety, and fear, and whatever other term you want to throw at it - do what YOU love / have a passion for, and the "Money" will be a by product.

      Gary Vaynerchuk wants to own the Jets... Logan Paul wants to be the biggest entertainer in the world - do either of these things have anything to do with other people? NOPE. The "Universe" is a reflection of YOU... focus on YOU, and the rest falls in place.

      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Definitely struck some good points.

      Yes, I am using pen name and trying to build brandable websites... as my "Exit Strategy" in the long-term.

      The main site (*which I want to be my baby) - would be [cultivate wealth] and I understand what you are saying I am climbing an uphill battle trying to start an authority site in the business opportunities, health, and overall well-being niche markets... as I am not an expert, but they are the evergreen markets I keep being drawn to for some reason. (DOLLARS)

      I feel to know enough to be ahead of a beginner, creeping up on being intermediate user of the net - I mean when I entered this forum, I barely knew how to create an email account, LOL.

      As far as the FREE - yeah, I think you've shifted my focus away from that whole concept. I know that a lot of marketers build huge email lists and then "filter' their list to align their subs with offers they would most likely benefit from or at least be interested in... segment the list or put them in a niche-specific bucket.

      I'm thinking more like a copywriter... everything becomes a CTA - I don't know with 100% assurance that I can align people with what they seek as an authority(?)- but the PLAN is to test offers - and get dollars coming in from affiliate offers - to give me more time and freedom to create Premium Reports, Mini-Courses, or build a body of written works... that is my real goal, to publish writings. At least that was what I aiming to be a well-paid writer... kind of expanded since I found this place.

      See this is where the lines get blurry... the conversation throughout this thread has toggled (2) key points;

      1.) You need to be passionate and "Do what you love"

      Well.. I agree, why do something you hate doing?

      But, the other...

      2.) Provide what others seek - SELL SOLUTIONS = $$$$

      So, I believe "helping others locate what they seek" could be the passion, and making money again - would be a nice side-effect!

      So, whereas, a football coach can take his team to victory (he knows the playbook) - others would say; "You cannot coach if you haven't played football" - I disagree. I imagine if the coach is a retired player, it helps, but a passionate coach may have never played, just loved the game to become a winning coach.

      Kind of like Charmin and Angel Soft... I don't think they are passionate about toilet paper - they solve a problem, sell solutions, and bank turning TP into DOLLARS.

      I didn't realize until Gordon mentioned Bill Meyers selling those chicken coop designs, I'd heard about that exploding as niche in CB, not sure if that was Bill Meyers, but that churned millions in sales, whoever it was. After having built my wife a chicken coop (*she wanted peacocks - they HONK too much, LOL) - I learned real quick people who raise chickens... are fanatical over their chickens... it's like they are their children. (*I loved having them and cheaper eggs... but I don't really get mushy over chickens.) Blew my mind though, some of these niche markets - you'd never guess could be gold mines.

      And... I am still trying to frame the authority site - the brand (or domain) sounds more like a financial consultancy firm than what I have in mind. Still a work-in-progress.
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      Success is an ACT not an idea
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Another cut and paste save post from WF and savidge4. Man, this stuff is being SOLD for big bux.

        Anyhooo...

        This weekend I gave away a 10 Million dollar idea. Well, they are, after all, a dime a dozen. I did this and gave an idea to a person who has the ability, the business already in existence and skill to easily test the concept and if successful, could be sensational.

        I'd bet that he won't bother with it because it doesn't match his "love", or dream business which he is about to build with PARTNERS. Yikes.

        See, giving away ideas is easy for people who have so many of them, and knowing 99.9% will NEVER act upon them, why not share? I've worked with scores of inventors who think people are going to steal their inventions, and in the scheme of things, most of them don't really have anything worth stealing. The market proves this right about 80% of the time, and it makes for good entertainment on shows like Lion's Den or Shark Tank.

        So, in the spirit of George Foreman and Mr. Coffee (where have you gone Joe DiMaggio) Here is an example of creating a product around existing markets.

        Food and diets. Universal. EVERgreen. Lucrative. Faddish. Diet of the day. Today, Keto is big, and just one of many specialty diets.

        I had to do a FODMaP diet to determine what was going on in my gut. Basically, one eliminates a lot of foods, and it stands for Fermentable, Oligosacchrides, Disacchrides, Monosacchrides and Polyols. A mouthful.

        This is used to determine which foods might be the cause of gastrointestinal disorders. With IBS, Diverticulosis, and over 30 million Americans suffering from chronic digestive disease and they account for 25% of ALL surgical procedures. YIKES.

        In other words, a PROBLEM with a huge market.
        Already a billion dollar industry, with everything from yogurt, keifer and supplements and digestive aids...it is one of those areas where a signifcant number can be "cured" by making dietary changes. See?

        Can you see a market? Anyhow,

        A couple of years back I invested in several small 4" Waffle makers. And using my culinary skills (having attended 3 schools for it) I started to develop recipes which eliminated a lot of the carbs which cause the problems. Wheat and gluten being a big one, ask anyone who suffers from celiac.

        So, in the spirit of giving away another million dollar idea, knowing full well it won't be acted upon, and by the way, I have a notebook full of these (as many of you do too), and not enough time in this lifetime to act on them, when I have other priorities. So here:

        I would create a website.
        Make YouTube videos.
        Sell the Waffle maker, have recipes, but then I would also enlist a mill, like Bob's RED and be an AFFILIATE via dropshipping where my FODMaP customer could order from, and I get a cut of the thing.

        A membership site, DAILY VIDEOS just documenting the process, affiliate programs, support forum, all done on the low cost way, and by DOING what I do anyhow, and simply documenting the process.

        So, in using the sniff out a market process...

        I looked around my house.

        Saw me suffering from digestive problems, wanted to empty the medicine cabinent, and get on a healthy track. I've spent a week, very painful week, in the hospital when the diverticulitis flared up, thank goodness no surgery was required, however, I tried to avoid talking to surgeons, cause they want to cut, it is what they do.

        So, found MODMaP, educated myself, tested, found a device, the small waffle maker, experimented with all kinds of stuff, found some tasty, healthy combinations and could easily take this whole thing to the market place in very short order.

        Do you all remember the home Brew craze of a few years back?

        Bud Weckesser of Green Tree Press made another fortune selling information, kits, supplies to this HOT market, but then Bud was a man of ACTION too.

        I 100% agee with savidge4, GET STARTED, sort as you go solving problems in the direction of your goals One will find that the adjustments made on the journey, the unforeseen events, the unpredictible will be where the AH HA moments are found and the riches start to flow.

        Got a million dollar idea? Give it away, no one will act on it anyhow.

        GordonJ

        P.S. Although I gave away my 10 million dollar idea for a game, I did not give away the 100 million dollar idea for a similar game. That one, maybe, some day, I just might act on.


        QUOTE=savidge4;11709735]I want you to start looking at people around you that you believe are successful... As examples here there is Claude, there is Gordon, there is myself - if you start paying attention, there is a pattern.. A really good example outside of those on the forum would be George Forman - and the George Forman grill.

        ok so ONE grill, but how many iterations? Countless... loss count... Do a search and you will about fall over.

        The COMMON Thread here is none of us are selling just one thing. Is there a store in existence that you are aware of that sells one item and one item only? Lets throw Baskin and Robbins in this... they just sell ice cream, but do they just sell vanilla, or do they sell 31 flavors? and cakes and ice cream sandwiches and and and

        Again, Baskin and Robbins being a good example of this... They sell within a vertical ( ice cream ) but also introduce parallel verticals ( ice cream cakes and ice cream cookies etc )

        George Forman... Little grills, family grills, 100sq In, 170+ sq inch , indoor, outdoor, Cook Books, Electric, Propane, Play Doh - an absolute Empire built on the diversity of a basic concept.

        Just to throw this in.. a example I use of a REALLY good Amazon affiliate site, (Not mine, but this is the model I follow ) https://foremangrillrecipes.com/best...oreman-grills/ ( and again not an affiliate... not the owner of the site )

        I have been saying... you really need to be thinking this through... And in NO WAY am I saying think this through before you get started... get started... but think about WHERE to get started.

        Odahh makes a better than valid point.. what exactly are you going to teach anyone about building wealth, if you havent yet?

        I have said this before... I will say it again... and probably again and again... DOCUMENT your process.

        What does that look like for YOU specifically right now? How to build a website? how to build a funnel? how to develop an e-mail list? How to develop a product to sell? and in a post above I gave you just the tip of an iceburg list of topics you could document as you go through them. ( Clickbank, CJ Affiliate, or PartnerStack, or Amazon or any number of affiliate hubs.) and create PRODUCTS



        I said this above ( or maybe another thread ) the ONLY thing anyone and everyone is seeking is MONEY - and in turn perceived happiness - what can i BUY ( with the money I make ) to be HAPPY? 99% of the world right there. and anyone HALF "enlightened" will tell you money cant buy you happiness right?

        99% will spend money, to learn how to make money, and 99% of those will never apply any amount of effort in actually doing? The phrase "1%er" exists for a reason.

        Forget "THEM" Helping others and all of that ( I know this sounds whacked ) and apply the principles to yourself and yourself only - control the controllable... I cant control what you do with the information you are reading, but I can control what information I do give you to read.. follow? Does it make me happy to share this information, or am I half bent and pissed off and sharing my "Secrets" and repeating myself over and over?

        If just 1 person can follow my advice - its all worth it. I did my "job" and I feel good about it - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other side of this.. did 1 person actually follow my advice? I dont know... and I dont care.

        Thats why you can watch videos or be on the receiving end of that conversation "You Change My Life" and its EMOTIONAL AF - I did my JOB.

        The WHY here is YOUR Happiness, and the minute it is anything less / other than that... its failure waiting to happen - disappointment, and anxiety, and fear, and whatever other term you want to throw at it - do what YOU love / have a passion for, and the "Money" will be a by product.

        Gary Vaynerchuk wants to own the Jets... Logan Paul wants to be the biggest entertainer in the world - do either of these things have anything to do with other people? NOPE. The "Universe" is a reflection of YOU... focus on YOU, and the rest falls in place.[/QUOTE]
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    • Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Kind of like Charmin and Angel Soft... I don't think they are passionate about toilet paper - they solve a problem, sell solutions, and bank turning TP into DOLLARS.
      So ... niche products & services always fit a particulah slot.

      If'n the slot exists already, the 'tissue' of your offah gotta smooth ovah it bettah, greenah, fastah, smartah, easiah than alla them othah dumb wipes for ass or wherevah.

      I guess the deal with most entreprenoors is how they see the slot comin'.

      Here be a void ain't as yet been filled ny nowan.

      The fashyun industry exploits this summonable slot to perfection.

      Bcs you lookin' at ochre frickin' sahcks when you splendiffin' out on the beach bcs vacay.

      To hell with what I wanna achieve! I jus' wanna look maximally dinky!

      Directin' expectations is prolly the grist of entreprenoorstuffs.

      Whethah they superlativizin' the slots or openin' up a nooly tappable gap in the flesh of the Caahsmaahs.

      Back in the day, proto-mutant hoomans suffered all kindsa seers a-wail for want of a pathway to whereuponsyevah.

      Gotta wondah what mighta happened if'n we'd tossed 'em a coupla rolls of THIS SIMPLE PRODUCT BEAUTIFIES YOUR ASS, SWEETIE, as advertized above.

      We mighta had the printin' press by 786 BC if'n only them cave types coulda cleaned up after umselves.
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      Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Art

    This is the issue I have with teach what you want to learn. You are trying to build a site or something around cultivate wealth. When you have not yet done it. The majority of millionaires are over 60 their investments are mainly in real estate and most are aim California and New York City.

    Gordon hit on the other way either creating or acquiring intellectual property.. but it really depends on how much yearly or monthly income you need.

    Now this is a question for art. What do you define as wealth.

    Now there is a lot of hidden wealth that does not show up in the figures but produces far more income than most well known asset classes
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      When you have not yet done it. The majority of millionaires are over 60 their investments are mainly in real estate and most are aim California and New York City.

      I doubt this.

      In my neck of the wood, a middle class home that's not anywhere near downtown is easily 1 million $ +. and I'm not near Cali or NY.

      Millionaire is the new middle class. No idea why people's aspirations have not kept up with the inflation of the last 20-30 so years.

      Also, why did you not consider Zimbabwe or Venezuela in your calculations? Zimbabweans and Venezuelans deserve recognition in teh brotherhood of nations.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    odahh - in absolution, I have [cultivated wealth] for (lack of a better description) based on several factors, primarily the 38 years I have invested in WORK and Small Business - as most of those years were primarily service-based or self-employment and despite my current mental-state of affairs, I was actually very stimulated and happier back then... there is WEALTH in achievement or at least a sense of accomplishment. (*MONEY does help... I don't hold it as high up as savidge4 does, I really don't... I just want to be fishing more at 55... than I am right now at 50, LOL)

    Granted, I didn't make 7-figures per year... (nowhere near that!) - I was happy billing/invoicing $100K per year and spending 25% - 35% to keep the difference back then... I mean with a 7th grade education, I felt like a rich fool back then.

    That $100k today... would need to be at least $250K - $350K annual net invoice to sustain what I had 25 -30 years ago (2-1/2 acre property, home, kids, 10 pit bulls that ate very well, machinery, business expenses, business credit cards, daycare, etc., etc., etc.

    How I define WEALTH = RESOURCES

    https://cultivatewealth.net/wp-conte.../05/wealth.png

    As socialentry states above: keeping up with inflation is ONE of my obsessions, as what once took 25% of one's income to afford housing & utilities - now costs the average employee 50% (or more) of their income - just in rent, elect, and basic utilities. - before all other business or living expenses. (*YES, I have always put business before living expenses, family, and even my kids... without it... I couldn't sustain the family without REVENUE/MONEY, so business always came first!)

    What I was able to produce [cultivate] or tend to 25 years ago, and invoice $100K per year - used to run me 30% - 35% of TOTAL annual sales revenue, strictly for business expenses- and I invested way MORE FOCUS, TIME, ENERGY into my BUSINESS than I actually spent time with my children. (*Wife/other-half' worked by my side for 30+ years so we were/are LIFE & Business partners - and we ONLY ARGUE when there's no MONEY, LOL).

    I don't regret that investment into prior businesses... though it sucks, I NOW wish to have pursued a different career path back then to avoid daycare costs (sometimes $2000 a MONTH) and the absence from spending MORE quality time with the kids The businesses I choose required 6-7 day work weeks or we'd have been in the poorhouse! (*I was middle-class, maybe not at the moment as socialentry points out!)

    Inflation could be an entire TOPIC for another MINDSET thread... probably a deserving conversation at that! - I am forever changed by the speed to wit; costs and inflation have increased - while jobs, salaries, and most employee level gigs are nowhere near a living wage. (*I'm sincere in wanting for the underdogs to increase their positions, as well as increase my own well-being, respectively - I think they go hand-in-hand, it's all connected!)

    I too agree to an extent with savidge4 - 99% WANT or NEED MORE MONEY... BUT what PEOPLE REALLY NEED is directions, guidance, and the means to allocate, acquire, and (*if they are fortunate) SUSTAIN a steady FLOW of RESOURCES... new skill sets, paths, or opportunities. *Breaking routine, a whole-nother thread could be started on that MINDSET! (*It is hard to just stop DOING what I have always done for MONEY!)

    The biggest mistake I made was having my MONEY tied-up in my business (*heavy equipment, trailers, trucks, tools, and necessities to conduct business, license, insurance, workman's comp exemption, legal bs, etc.) - and my home and property - which I foolishly LOST and REFUSED TO SELL - even with over $250K in equity at stake! Plus, like most jobs - I relied heavily upon contractors, clients, and homeowners to honor their word... you'd be surprised HOW MANY DO NOT honor their agreements, in the world or ARENAS I lived and fought in for 38 years!

    (*I don't know about your world - but 'IF' YOU do not CONTROL the outcome, sale, goods, assets... that is a RISKY-BUSINESS - I made all those mistakes for too long!) - again, I cannot argue with all here who say; that was... MY DOING!

    Even the INTERNET... what happens if it goes down, EMP, or some lunatic launches nukes... it's over for most business owner's online or offline (*maybe everybody, in the latter example)... even most cars run on computers nowadays. (*Too much dependency - not enough CONTROL over the tech) - I personally hate that about today's socio-economics, on the global scales.

    I barely had ANY CONTROL(S) over my assets... the bank still owned the house - the tools and equipment were ONLY VALUABLE when I was operating those TOOLS. Sure there was some equitable asset value, but nothing compared to say...

    The freedoms of buying a $300 Jon Boat + $100 repairs = $400 Total Asset Value... to explore;

    *Commercial fishing and cast netting for *5.5 years - *chucking a cast net like a ninja in a perfect CIRCLE in some remote swamp in Florida to SELL $200K+ in edibles (FISH) may not be a huge yield... (*granted, other expenses were probably $50K over that period of time... gas, repairs, ins, taxable income, etc.) - I had to buy nets, most were fronted by the buyers who retailed to NY, England, Canada... I was HAPPY just getting PAID to FISH locally! (*The buyers were all millionaires... they retailed, we wholesaled.)

    But the ROI - was HUGE as far as my initial INVESTMENT. (*Consistency sucked in that gig) - it was seasonal and unpredictable - every year was different.

    So WEALTH doesn't have to be the DOLLAR amount to ME. Of course, I understand - MONEY is the primary source that people seek to BUY HAPPINESS... and yES, I am happier when bills are paid and their a little extra cheddar for NEW TOOLS... LOL. (*That's is about all I buy...tools)

    But... tell a multi-millionaire dying of cancer or some incurable disease How Wealthy - she or he 'really is' and that MONEY cannot cure cancer or make Covid go awayper se... it may post-pone or delay the inevitable.

    Granted, most people are "financing their dreams" and they're "in-debt" before they leave the driveway. Go buy a new car/truck to "get to work" and feel good every Saturday taking that baby to The Car Wash (like my son does) - or - getting it detailed (*if you can afford to pay someone else to do it) - and in REALITY...

    That's NOT YOUR CAR... you just washed the BANK's CAR/TRUCK! (*If it isn't making more than costs - which most cars probably do have a 'positive investment' record, it doesn't justify 84 months with high interest, high insurance rates, and then gas prices OMG...shoot me already, LOL) - there is no way to CONTROL that!

    Wealth is Resources > Abundant Valuable Materials > Possessions > Knowledge(maybe?) > Skill sets > in the Exchange of VALUE/money at market or in private.

    Most people DO NOT OWN their assets... (*The bank's are doing a fine job managing most people's dreams) - but not INTEREST FREE!

    To Cultivate > Nurture > Plant > Embed > Till > Ripe Seeds (ideas) > Rich Soil > *Other People's Minds> rich soil? > or barren waste lands?

    IDK... how could I?) <--- This part is TRICKY! > Knowing where to plant those seeds (ideas) can make all the difference... I am tip-toeing on a tight-rope as we speak sorting the paths that I want to lay out my breadcrumbs for others to find and follow... if they choose to follow GREAT, if not, and I suck at this... well then, it's a numbers game, right? - I had better learn soon, or my retirement plan is VOID!

    https://cultivatewealth.net/wp-conte.../cultivate.png

    So, in theory... I agree with the WANT people have for MONEY - although I see MONEY as merely (1) of a million+ RESOURCES available to WE the PEOPLE. Globally, some people/countries are more fortunate than others, of course... but I believe; the majority want the same things piece of mind, happiness, security, stability, and yes... financially too. (*But, not everyone want the responsibility or upkeep of 3 businesses and a huge home and/or property... some might just want an RV and freedom to travel and work remotely!)

    Now... again, my passion isn't vacuum cleaners, growing lettuce in pods, or chicken coops...

    It would center more upon aligning people with MORE RESOURCES as that is WHAT I really study... it sounds [ethical and efficient] enough for me... 'IF' you can help them either acquire more resources for LESS MONEY... or... You can align them with MORE MONEY to BUY themselves HAPPY-NESS as savidge4 defined... YOU GET PAID! (*Win/Win)

    Not to revisit the past (as I am about over it) my kid thought he could BUY HAPPY - and guess what... I GUARANTEE his purchase DID NOT sustain any measure of HAPPY - he got some new toys, a new whip, and a $30K DEBT to show for it.

    Now... he's right back to BROKE - has more DEBT than paycheck. He works at Pet Cemetery selling crickets for $350 week... and without his GF, he cannot afford 75% of what he is struggling to maintain now that he upgraded his living quarters, ride, and spoils... before investing or making money with the money he received from a lucky car accident. Honestly, he could've died in that car accident, it was pretty bad - I am glad he didn't, but it about 'killed me' to witness how little he has learned about life, business, money, responsibility, respect, etc. at 28-years old (?) - archetype misfire on the DNA strand, hell if I know?

    I would bet... $10K in test ads to a decent landing (Butter page) linked to an affiliate offer... could've made that boy enough to retire in 5-10 years... OK, I cannot prove that, so it is a bit of a blanket statement - but I know how they target audiences and can find and recreate an ad when FUNDS permit, and damn sure bet it pays better than Crickets-R-US.

    People might only "SEE YOU" where you are right now... that is normal. People are quick to judge, slow to trust (if ever), and if MONEY is involved; you almost have to be SAVAGE to protect your own interest and well-being( pun intended)... I try to be fair with people, and get bitten often (and a little bitter) when people dismiss INTEGRITY for MONEY - that's not good business or good practice, in IMHO.

    I see the OTHERSIDE of the canyon... all I need is the right crossing (a bridge) to get there... yes, it's a pursuit - as I believe defines SUCCESS like Earl Nightingale:

    "Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal."

    So [cultivate wealth] is by definition; "planting ripe seeds in rich soil... to help align people with resources" (*yes, make more MONEY or whatever you deem worthy of your ideal pursuits!)... the PLAN is intended to supplant fresh ideas (ripe seeds) in visitor's minds rich soil? or Am I cultivating barren soil? - that I cannot know, 98% are likely barren, according to statistical data, included wise people here who agree 98% do nothing!

    Ripe N' Juicy (again, SEEDS) another domain I intend to connect to the network - may be/become the mechanics site: blog, newsletter, free here's How this works - step-by-step... want more? - buy the Mini-Course ONLY $97 one-time payment! (*60 Day Money-Back Guarantee - *Pay Affiliates, or crawl through SEO and/or Organic traffic hell trying to get visitors/subs... or... alternatively BUY & TEST TRAFFIC!) <--- That MONEY!!!

    I aiming at EXISTING TRAFFIC Sources since I cannot afford ads or a year to build a decent following... (*And, NO - I don't have a worthy product YET) - but NEVER discount what may transpire... especially, when we have 1000's of people doing JUST THAT - creating and selling digital products, courses, books, training, coaching, seminars, ever-webinars, and teaching EVERY micro-niche involved in that entire automated sales funnel process... Email Marketing actually being ONE of those strategies and business models as well... and using affiliates to generate sales, less 50% (or whatever you offer them) on the backend. You have to be/become a vendor and know your shit, no doubt.

    If you can Webmaster the entire thing... You have me beat, no doubt... but I am creeping up on the WHOLE THING, not just one micro niche. Although the "products" will be "TARGETED" at specific "EXISTING MARKETS" and there are experts everywhere... like Henry Ford, I don't need to be the EXPERT - I need to associate, affiliate, and crack a syndicated network, respectively selling the vehicle, fuel, replacement parts, solutions, etc.... as a solopreneur, preferably!

    Awesome > Buy my advanced Mini-Course, report, Hot Sheet, Book, Time, Energy, Knowledge, Skill Sets, Expertise... or... buy the latest and greatest revolutionary traffic building strategy from my friend; Joe EXPERT! (*and make the commissions.)

    So you got me... I don't play football, but I know most of their playbook!

    Same with Internet Marketing... I certainly wouldn't want to challenge savidge4 at building websites - SEO - or - even selling 4000 websites per year... anymore than I want to compete against Claude selling vacuums and household accessories - or - over-step my copywriting passions against Gordon's knowledge of direct response marketing...

    But...all the same, How do we LEARN?

    How did you LEARN to do your last JOB?

    By DOING... TRUE.

    BUT... You were shown the WAY to "DO IT" by someone else.

    If, I sincerely dig deep in research (*which I often obsess and over-think) and use Click Funnels entire business model (which I loosely followed Russell since Ripplin' went belly-up, bloated, and floated like a vole in a swimming pool) - I can tell YOU with CONFIDENCE...

    HE TEACHES PEOPLE... Mirror, Model, Frame, Emulate, and to an extent COPY (*not STEAL, plagiarize, or rob someone else's entire funnel system) - but "IF" you look at Russell Brunson and CF's - (*I'm sure most here are familiar with SaaS - all-in-one PLATFORMS)... dude went from a $1M dollar debt to the IRS - to CF being in the range of what; $500M? (or sumfin like that, WOW) - I am not trying to build that!

    How many 2-Comma-Club awards has he AWARDED his faithful TRIBESMEN and WOMEN?

    Quite a few... started at ZERO... Built authority by triangulating a FEW experts, viola' - grandslam, tapped the oil well as Frank Kern mentions in hid video; "Don't Be a P*ssy!"

    Here you have savideg4 contributed a $40 eBay thread - TEACHING eBay to the tune of a potential 5,6, or 7 figures right here by savidge4 - who either LEARNED IT by DOING IT - but... first they (most likely) studied, researched, or crossed paths with someone who was already teaching how to do eBay...

    Gordon all but gave away the free resources to start selling reports and finding niche markets, inexpensive (if not 100% free resources) to sell something online.

    Everybody here... tries to contribute to helping others escape the MINDSET or ruts of being stuck or bogged down in the habitual routines, etc...

    So... while I may not be as savvy as say a seasoned programmer, I know the language stems from the [Root] or Source and then breadcrumbs forward or expands out from their containers like (Web Flow or most page builders, etc.) - much like every language - be it music, writing, visual, audio... or writing code, binary, WP, programming, or edgewise. The root is the key, the SOURCE... find the root, find the source (preferably a wise teacher) and DO THE WORK.

    I DO NOT CURRENTLY have a HUGE EMAIL LIST... but, I can tell savidge4's business model DOES NOT rely too heavily on "Email Marketing Strategies" which I am in the thick of studying... because, I can OWN MY LISTS - and NOT RELY on FB, Social Media, YouTube, or even a SaaS networks (or all-in-one solution) to manage my entire business with their hosting, builders, autoresponder, etc... takes away my CONTROLS - if ONE thing breaks... the WHOLE bottom falls out, I don't like that idea, and it's cheaper to piece it together yourself.

    As a (wannabe?) professional writer... sending messages to those who may (or may not) benefit from my ability to align (COMMUNICATE: "Hey look at this... just what you were looking for 'Click-Here' and... ALIGN them with RESOURCES.

    Money being only ONE of a million ways to bring value to the exchange... I prefer understanding, knowledge, and wisdom over MONEY... call me ignorant, but that's exactly [WHY] 'I' got online, as I felt under-educated - money is only the side-effect of one's knowledge, skills, and abilities... not the DRIVER! (*It buys the fuel, so it is definitely a requirement indeed to make most transactions, outside of trading, bartering, ad swaps, or the likes).

    RESOURCES = WEALTH... money is most definitely high up on most people's list,,, and true 99% "DO NOT earn $625,000 per household annual income to touch the "Bottom Rung of The Top 1% Ladder" - but give them a lottery ticket and watch how fast the MAJORITY would BLOW IT... and *5-10 years the majority of lottery winners wind-up being right back being broke or financially limited.

    Listen, I am NO SAINT and I am not a martyr (*not yet anyways)... I'm neither against MONEY - nor suffering ANY delusions of grandeur as to what I might accomplish entering a NEW ARENA armed only with my past experience in service-based business models - I have about 5 years TOTAL invested on/off with IM stuff... (*not 11 years - since I 1st joined WF and began examining Internet Marketing strategies and business models) - I can name people that are considered experts in nearly any aspect of IM, and probable a few hundred non-IM related markets... because I have researched extensively, maybe too much!

    So... I would say I know more about Internet Marketing than most people I know or meet offline... nobody I know even speaks the internet language we use in these types of circles, which DOES RE-MIND me that just because I know a little about X, Y, or Z may not make me the expert... but if I target beginners - not advanced IM Warriors... I may do alright and work my credibility into those circles...after all, they already have EXISTING TRAFFIC... and it has been said; "You only need to said a few steps ahead of your adience, right?"

    See... I am looking at this from a heightened perspective, I see the whole of the industry, now I have to practice (DOING THE WORK) and build the f'ing thing already!

    Unlike Gordon, savidge4, Claude... No I am NOT TOO COMFORTABLE in ANY of this environment yet... I am equally excited and terrified simultaneously, must be the right path!

    Who do I WANT to emulate and try my hand at???

    Gordon's a writer, direct response marketer, and more... definitely respect him.

    Savidge4 is more an INVESTOR - business minded gent, web designer, programmer, and more respectively.

    Claude's a brilliant store owner, salesman, and a published writer, much respect!

    *WE (*the disciples of YOU marketing gods) cannot be all-the-above overnight multi-faceted experts -or- possibly produce ANY measurable comparison to those who have already established themselves as the (3) examples above. But, I am still cherry picking like a guy ready to sell cherries to Baskin and Robbins, on a Sunday! LOL.

    Everything roots back to THOSE PRIOR (*unless you innovate, invent, and are true genius) and even 'genius' derives from the Latin word; generate, which shares a room with educate or "Educo - "I lead, draw, or take out, forth or away!"

    TLDR; Summary... [cultivate] Ripe Seeds [wealth] Rich Minds = (Storehouses)... RESOURCES!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Here you have savideg4 contributed a $40 eBay thread - TEACHING eBay to the tune of a potential 5,6, or 7 figures right here by savidge4 - who either LEARNED IT by DOING IT - but... first they (most likely) studied, researched, or crossed paths with someone who was already teaching how to do eBay...
      I am going to throw some truth into this... I have been selling since I was 9 maybe? probably even younger than that... by 14 I was full blown running ads in newspaper selling.

      Prior to actually bringing my wife into the fold with eBay... I would just sell stuff like unused equipment etc.. i was more of a buyer than a seller... but without question had sold stuff before.

      For a month or 3 I would play all day ( work ) and take my wife to buy stuff to sell, and then come home and help her list stuff... basically she was buying and I was doing the rest. BUT she felt as tho she had a purpose - so any time spent was happy wife happy life. Didnt take long that I hired the first Driving Miss Daisy.

      Back story... My wife has anxiety - hasnt driven in 13 maybe 14 years now - and always has to be doing something... prior to eBay... doing was buying for "Just in Case" My wife "Shopping" is happy - she loves the hunt - absolutely painful for Mr with a list in and out to be with Ms look at any and every item on the shelf and 4 hours later might walk out empty handed and needing to goto another store. The "Employee" - now 4 Employees - was my investment in my own sanity

      Prior to that thread... I followed the basics... the 3x rule was in place because that just makes business sense.. White Background... knew that from my experience in online selling - the rest... actually learned most of that while doing that thread... had joined a number of FB groups and hit a couple of forums - at the time watched a ton of videos.

      I challenge anyone to read through that thread and find another source pertaining to eBay that is even close to equal... here is a real interesting one... I started that thread in Feb 2019.. look up "Cassini eBay" in Google and pay attention to the dates of the articles.... my time I spent in groups etc... no one had a clue.

      Those 30 days.... I can say that "My" my wifes eBay business grew 2x because of that experience - teaching what i most needed to learn - Mind boggling how little I knew when I started that thread vs when I was done with the 30 days.

      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      I DO NOT CURRENTLY have a HUGE EMAIL LIST... but, I can tell savidge4's business model DOES NOT rely too heavily on "Email Marketing Strategies" which I am in the thick of studying... because, I can OWN MY LISTS - and NOT RELY on FB, Social Media, YouTube, or even a SaaS networks (or all-in-one solution) to manage my entire business with their hosting, builders, autoresponder, etc... takes away my CONTROLS - if ONE thing breaks... the WHOLE bottom falls out, I don't like that idea, and it's cheaper to piece it together yourself.
      Iam sure you have heard, its just as easy to sell a $10 item as it is a $100 item.. so why bother with $10 items? Flawed logic, but logic none the less... So in terms of order of difficulty getting someone to get their name on a list to sell to them vs just selling to them?

      I actually do have a number of mailing lists... Somewhere in the 2,000,000 names on those list category. I have a mailing list that goes back 18 yrs now - that ONE list - something like 1000 e-mails over the years... and probably exceedingly more than that actually. I sometimes wish I had those 1000+ hours back - but I keep writing now dont I?

      So here is where things get real interesting... YOU dont own anything - you dont own your list.. you are at the whim of a service provider and the other people using that service provider. Whats the difference between hitting a mailbox and a junk box? Your Service Providers "Senders Score" - absolutely nothing to do with YOU.

      83% ( +/- ) of ALL e-mails do NOT hit in the inbox - so you are like 17% in control - Like. I own and run my very own mail server...as much control as I can get.. and even then I am still at the effects of my ISP "Sender Score".

      So lets dive a bit more into this K? So there are kinda 2 "Sender Scores"; there is IP Sender Score, and Domain Sender Score also known as IP and Domain Reputation. These scores as much as we would like to think there is a universal scoring - that really is not the case. So between you sending an e-mail... and the end person receiving the e-mail that specific email is running through a minimum of 4 ISP server, meaning that your e-mail "Sender Score" is being checked 4 times to get to the inbox.. any ONE of those comes back low... and guess what.. the low score data is passed forward and your e-mail hits JUNK

      We can get into a whole other discussion based on the IOS system used on the senders - servers and receiving end as well that will effect these things.

      Here is the ABSOLUTE truth... we as end users are in control of NOTHING. There is no such thing as owning anything on the net... Anything and Everything is a platform... you are Using Thrive Themes... they have rules.. you are using Wordpress they have rules... you are Hosting your site on some server, they have rules... the end user is using a ISP to see your content, they have rules. YOU are using an ISP - and they have rules,. want to be seen on Google... they have rules.

      So the question then becomes... why in the name of pete would you want to not take advantage of a platform? just follow the RULES - you have to anyways... at least by positioning yourself on a platform, you can maybe see what the rules are.

      Your not beating the system here.. you are being beat and dont even know it.. simply because you read on the internet you need to Own your thing... Your LEASING - at best.. and its more like renting... there is no option to own - Stop paying your hosting what happens? Stop paying your e-mail hosting what happens? is that owning, NO, thats RENT. And again, at each level there is a set of rules ( that you have no control over ) that can bring you down.

      I dont think I can say it any clearer... leverage platforms - regardless of what you believe to be true, its what you are doing anyways.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      The biggest mistake I made was having my MONEY tied-up in my business (*heavy equipment, trailers, trucks, tools, and necessities to conduct business, license, insurance, workman's comp exemption, legal bs, etc.) - and my home and property - which I foolishly LOST and REFUSED TO SELL - even with over $250K in equity at stake! Plus, like most jobs - I relied heavily upon contractors, clients, and homeowners to honor their word... you'd be surprised HOW MANY DO NOT honor their agreements, in the world or ARENAS I lived and fought in for 38 years!
      I would 100% argue it was NOT a mistake... if you look at "Wealthy" in this world... thats where the money is... Elon Musks is 100% invested in business.. as in NO salary - literally all net worth and NO cash flow...

      Take a look here: ( https://balancingeverything.com/mill...ics%20by%20age. ) Scroll down to "The wealthiest Americans..." and the top 16... the wealth is what? BUSINESS

      YOU were on the right path... just never jumped at scale... you were working on Million dollar projects... Not closing them.. follow? you were chasing paychecks and not writing them - that one right there... took me a while to learn... all that expense - at scale is a good thing - look at list of names again... how many people do those 16 employee?

      They are leveraging TIME... and not THEIR time, but the time of those they employ.

      Investor Dad breaks down economics into Macro Micro and Mini... those 16 are on the MACRO level.. they are essentially Inflation proof, deflation proof, and for the most part depression proof.

      Step down to the MICRO level - and this is where I would place myself... I am Inflation proof, deflation proof... But depression proof? not so sure - probably for the most part... but it sits in the back of my mind.

      Then there is the level you are talking about, and chasing inflation...thats MINI economics - you are effected by Inflation, Deflation, and Depression.. your chasing in each and every direction. Your not leveraging...

      So what separates Mini and Micro? 2 words MADE and MAKE

      Made is an asset that made you money when it was in use.. a truck or a printer or a excavator... An Asset that MAKE's you money as you know is a totally different thing... Rental property, stocks, EMPLOYEE's

      Let e throw in a corporate example that amplifies this.... the Company with hands down the greatest cash on hand reserve in the world? Apple, would be the answer... do you see the name apple in the top 16 richest people in the world? What you do see is Phone OS's right, Apple is 15% market share and that means Google ( android ) is the other 85. 14.5% of computers sold in the world are Apple, that means the other 85% are Microsoft right? Apple is a operating at a micro level vs its competitors MACRO level - Investment in business is what separates this.

      So Macro, Micro, and Mini it comes right down to re-investment, and leverage - Made and Make - and then introduce SCALE
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Resources don't matter much if you do not have the ability to turn them into useable products to sell . Or an income from leasing them to those who can turn those resources into profit.

    If you ever cultivated real wealth. You would not be thinking exit strategy you would be talking about creating or acquiring new more wealth.
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Resources don't matter much if you do not have the ability to turn them into useable products to sell . Or an income from leasing them to those who can turn those resources into profit.

      If you ever cultivated real wealth. You would not be thinking exit strategy you would be talking about creating or acquiring new more wealth.
      I disagree... you have an entire shopping mall at your disposal, just in affiliate marketing alone. So, you and I and anyone who seeks more abundance or access to RESOURCES cannot easily dismiss that YOU can join any number of PLATFORMS as savidge4 states... for FREE (some may require more experience, etc.) - and get paid to use the JV-Affiliate tools, promos, and marketing tools to make MONEY.'' - and some provide training. OR you can learn here, YT, or at like ClickFunnels - Affiliate Boot Camp [.] com - no affiliation... opportunity there to gain the ABILITY and sell other people's goods, services, or expertise..

      Forgive this example, when I was younger I smoked a ton of weed... I didn't buy it. I had connections, friends, and they smoked... so I wasn't a drug dealer (not directly) - I simply moved product across a table and got my medicine for FREE...

      Imagine doing that with your domains, hosting, autoresponders, and all the stuff we use to build online... it would (hopefully, in the least pay for itself - so you get FREE RESOURCES) and all goes well... you make profits as well.

      You cannot determine, my definition of success or my "Exit Strategy" anymore than I would attempt to guess what you NEED or WANT to be happy, or how you would live if you reach your comfort zone.

      Logically, I would likely continue working - so, no doubt I'd likely get the fever again... and the more I make (or in future speak 'made') - I'd likely continue as a means to build more security for my children, grand-babes, and maybe be more philanthropical and give back as I grow...

      But yeah, resources are in abundance, I'm lacking resources right now... I should be building RIGHT NOW - I just get frustrated with TECH and come here - (2 hours lost!)

      PS - "Exit Strategy" is a copywriting hook for ATTENTION... to help others leave their job... not MY exit strategy, LOL.

      Wait I almost forgot...
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      We mighta had the printin' press by 786 BC if'n only them cave types coulda cleaned up after umselves.
      ^^^YES 100% THIS!!!^^^
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Art

    Come on your part pool cleaning company was your idea of a success. The fishing thin again your version of success. As long as you are making money and not punching a time card for an employer. Even if you would make far more money. That is your success.

    I'm stubborn total time put in has to beat current minimum wage or give you skills that can earn far more than minimum wage. Or it is not a success.
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Art

      Come on your part pool cleaning company was your idea of a success. The fishing thin again your version of success. As long as you are making money and not punching a time card for an employer. Even if you would make far more money. That is your success.

      I'm stubborn total time put in has to beat current minimum wage or give you skills that can earn far more than minimum wage. Or it is not a success.
      YES, YES, and definitely....YES - not working FOR somebody else to me, is heavenly. Compared to being told when to work, when to be there. What to wear. How many hours I might get. A pre-determined wage that I have little - if any control over... I hate working FOR PEOPLE... I LOVE working WITH people! (*Big difference between the two)

      Naturally, I have held hourly jobs, salaried gigs, etc... I like do not do well in a restricted environment - so some freedom beats - no freedoms.

      Hello... I worked for nearly 25 years with people in the pool construction, service, and repair industry... some of my old clients (*and friends) cleaned -up to 700 pools a year - 100 pools per service truck - one guy/gal making $12 - $15 per hour as an employee - "full service with chemicals once per week is $100 month (min)per client - X 700 clients that's $840,000 per year in net sales on the frontend! [EDIT: My bad I had the math at $700K]

      That's nothing compared to the repairs, renovations, and resurfacing costs of remodeling or renovating pools and spas on the backend.

      I've personally worked on jobs (*as a sub-contractor) that were nearly $1M dollars where people revamped their entire backyards into a landscaped paradise... with all the bells and whistles. Clearly, (*as stated above) you'd need at least $10K to get started "cleaning pools" with a small truck and initial set up - but there's NO CEILING to how many accounts you can obtain or how BIG you can grow your route(s) - so yeah, I know a few millionaires who still clean, repair, and renovate swimming pools, it's a luxury trade... SERVING PEOPLE WHO HAVE MONEY!

      I NEVER said the fishing gig was a success - I said I was happier catching fish and getting paid to fish. The returns on my investments were HUGE - If you could start with $500 and make $1750 catching fish in one night (*best night I ever had, BTW) cash money the next morning in hand! - I don't know too many people who could get paid $35k - $40K per year just to catch fresh water fish... the goal was $100k per year, just wasn't there! (*It was more freeing than financially rewarding - but it was HARD WORK & FUN)

      So why not start FREE with AFFILIATE marketing... and still do your thing, whatever that is right now?

      I understand you need to get paid fast... maybe even learning internet related stuff isn't fast enough. You liked the idea of dropping 7-figures on growing organic veggies? - so do I, but I damn sure don't have that kind of working capital to even consider it, the amount of WORK and INTELLIGENCE required, I don't even know if I would tackle a task with that big of an investment... I'd be scared of that 5-YEAR wait for a return!

      PS - Since you mentioned living in Tampa... the LAST pool job I worked on was the Tampa Hospital indoor commercial therapy pools, that was HUGE too... contractors who build 200 custom pool/spa @ $35,000 (*when I left the industry) were pulling $7M to $10M on new construction - where I made the bulk of my money as sub-contractor for multiple builders... I wasn't the pool cleaner... I know how to build commercial and residential pools, spas, fountains, waterfalls, and more... I just got sick of it after I learned the entire industry!
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      I'm stubborn total time put in has to beat current minimum wage or give you skills that can earn far more than minimum wage. Or it is not a success.
      Hmmm... thats a rough one... I "Work" roughly 120 hours a week right? I "Make" less than $2000 a month

      Thats a rough bar to determine success... You have read it from me before... you need stable in your life, to pursue your passion... The quickest way to replacing "Stable" is selling physical things ( in my book ) But it may take time... so to draw a line and say im not making minimum wage and use that as a point to quit... hard to agree with that.

      Success is HAPPY, and NOT dollars... Look around you... people chasing dollars... not so happy, and dont have as much money as one would think. People chasing happy... tend to have dollars - and more than likely defy your rule of minimum wage.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Hmmm... thats a rough one... I "Work" roughly 120 hours a week right? I "Make" less than $2000 a month

        Thats a rough bar to determine success... You have read it from me before... you need stable in your life, to pursue your passion... The quickest way to replacing "Stable" is selling physical things ( in my book ) But it may take time... so to draw a line and say im not making minimum wage and use that as a point to quit... hard to agree with that.

        Success is HAPPY, and NOT dollars... Look around you... people chasing dollars... not so happy, and dont have as much money as one would think. People chasing happy... tend to have dollars - and more than likely defy your rule of minimum wage.
        Savage yes you only let a few thousand a month out of all the money you generate become personal income. But your passion is building businesses . So you have capital stored somewhere so is you need to put millions into a venture. You can without having to borrow it or raise capital.

        You represent what I call hidden wealth. There are probably far more millionaires or deca millionaires than the numbers suggest but it is hidden from the standard method of measuring wealth. Because it's not in a way person's name

        I need to better manage what I ask the Universe for. The heat and humidity here in Tampa has been getting to me. So the last few weeks I have been saying to myself I'll take a job just to be in air conditioning all day.

        Didn't even have to look for a job it kinda found me. And I'm now working in a refrigerated environment. And working harder than I thought my back could handle.

        My focus the last few years has been on restoring my physical health and balancing my mental health and a few other things that I have achieved success at.

        Now I need to get financially stable enough to get in a place where I can get a cpap machine to treat my sleep apnea. So I have a shot a balancing my physical energy levels . And lowering my blood pressure naturally

        At this point if I do anything online to make money it will probably be domain flipping. Offline main starting thing would deal with pallets.
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  • Evry time I look in on this post it is awash with more quality stuff.

    Kinda like the ultimate hair volumizin' accessory pack gonna take you from lank to swanky in a flash.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Funny thing aboiut ultimate. The choices.

      Good, better, best. Subjective. But look into the Vol Acc Pack that gives you the Shirley Temple curls, and your swank goes into overdrive.

      GordonJ

      And a pair of taps as you glide across the dance floor is a cool accessory too.


      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      Evry time I look in on this post it is awash with more quality stuff.
      Kinda like the ultimate hair volumizin' accessory pack gonna take you from lank to swanky in a flash.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I don't think rock bottom is the actual turning point because a number of people hit rock bottom and bounce around there the rest of their lives.

    And you people don't have to hit rock bottom. Now in my view . An individual has to both get fed up or disgusted with a situation and accept only they can change things for the better. There are a lot of people waiting to be saved from some outside force.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      I don't think rock bottom is the actual turning point because a number of people hit rock bottom and bounce around there the rest of their lives.

      And you people don't have to hit rock bottom. Now in my view . An individual has to both get fed up or disgusted with a situation and accept only they can change things for the better. There are a lot of people waiting to be saved from some outside force.
      Good point. To hit rock bottom implies one has risen to a certain height.

      Maybe, instead of bouncing (not Splattering) they stay at the bottom because it takes effort to get out of it?

      Newton sez, a body in motion remains so until it encounters an outside force (or something along those lines)...rock bottom is a downward force, but for many more of a cue ball effect, hitting or being hit by something which makes one take a different direction.

      Being dissatisfied can be a motivation, however, you are also correct in saying a LOT of people are waiting for genie in the lamp to appear.

      I think a LOT of folks languish in their days waiting for something outside of themselves to happen. The pandemic put a lot people there, and they haven't yet come out of that.

      I also believe, many, many folk are just too tired (depressed, exhausted, whatever) to make much of an effort to change things, or otherwise, they would, NO?

      THEY, the languishing, don't even naval gaze...even that is too much work.

      They exist.

      For many of us, it is sad...but,

      oh well, it is their choice.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Good point. To hit rock bottom implies one has risen to a certain height.

        Maybe, instead of bouncing (not Splattering) they stay at the bottom because it takes effort to get out of it?

        Newton sez, a body in motion remains so until it encounters an outside force (or something along those lines)...rock bottom is a downward force, but for many more of a cue ball effect, hitting or being hit by something which makes one take a different direction.

        Being dissatisfied can be a motivation, however, you are also correct in saying a LOT of people are waiting for genie in the lamp to appear.

        I think a LOT of folks languish in their days waiting for something outside of themselves to happen. The pandemic put a lot people there, and they haven't yet come out of that.

        I also believe, many, many folk are just too tired (depressed, exhausted, whatever) to make much of an effort to change things, or otherwise, they would, NO?

        THEY, the languishing, don't even naval gaze...even that is too much work.

        They exist.

        For many of us, it is sad...but,

        oh well, it is their choice.

        GordonJ
        I don't know.

        If people don't believe their choices matter or they are subject to outside compulsory forces. And generally most people only believe they have a small number of options.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Good point. To hit rock bottom implies one has risen to a certain height.

        Maybe, instead of bouncing (not Splattering) they stay at the bottom because it takes effort to get out of it?
        In most cases, I don't think it's laziness.

        But some portion of the world lives at rock bottom. They get comfortable there. The number of people that work hard but have nothing is legion.

        One reason is that they do what really poor people do. They buy poorly. They don't handle money well.

        When I was a 20 year old factory worker, I noticed that most of the guys blew their money that weekend, and scrounged until the next paycheck. So did I,

        Also, it's a mindset. I don't mean that with "Positive thinking" your life will change. I mean that they are comfortable being dirt poor. It's how they identify. It's the social circle they are in. I've had relatives that were dirt poor and never considered any other possibility.

        It's why most people that win the lottery are dirt poor a few years later. They have no idea how to handle money. To them...it's uncomfortable being wealthy...It's uncomfortable not complaining about finances. Not blaming others for their position.

        And then a few years later? After they have wasted all that money? They are now where they feel they should be. Where they feel at home.

        I've hired salespeople that made lots of money their first paycheck...and then quit. Why? Because making a good income was foreign to them. It seemed wrong. I've had reps tell me they thought making that much money was immoral.

        Today, while we were moving our store we just closed...a former customer came in and wished us well. She then said something that stunned me a little. She said "You had a store. But I don't deserve my own store". I'm not joking.

        I told her "Nobody deserves anything. Nobody gave us this store, it wasn't a gift. We sacrificed and worked hard for years to build this business. Anyone can do it, if they are willing to put in the effort".
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        "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Maybe, instead of bouncing (not Splattering) they stay at the bottom because it takes effort to get out of it?
        Coming out of rock bottom is one thing and one thing only - ACCOUNTABILITY - Who or what put you there? Was it myself, or was it someone or something else?
        Signature
        Success is an ACT not an idea
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Coming out of rock bottom is one thing and one thing only - ACCOUNTABILITY - Who or what put you there? Was it myself, or was it someone or something else?
          Yes accountability but also a willingness to follow rules even when no one else is looking. I don't really know how to explain that. Think how many poor people still smoke. No matter how expensive it gets.

          And then they are the rude smokers who think they should be able to smoke anywhere. Not care that someone may not want to get that smoke in their face or listen to the vulgar conversation they are having on the cell phone.

          People who don't think their actions are why they are having trouble and don't care how what they do effects others. But are the ones making it harder for other people in bad situations
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    As Claude mentioned above with "bailing people out" or "loaning a family member money" - I have experienced similar events in my past - whereas, I rarely seek or ask anyone for outside help, especially, financially. And, in the EVENT that I needed help, asked for help, or reached the 'bottom' to resort to seeking help from outside sources... my personal experiences have dictated that NOBODY wants to 'enable anyone' more than themselves...

    The forfeiture of human decency seems greater TODAY - RIGT NOW than the prior integrity, grit, and honor systems we ONCE UPON a TIME upheld.

    The division is thick amongst the tribes, so to speak.

    We CONTROL NOTHING (outside ourselves) as Joseph Campbell, Alan Watts, Jordan Peterson, Nietzsche, Jung, Kant, Kissinger...

    All these "polar opposites" and brilliant minds... neither 100% right or wrong... and yet, our BIAS shows in the manner we communicate, conduct business, work, and play... (*I can identify IT in peoples FB posts, comments, and HOW they communicate) doesn't make me any more a cultivator for holding onto all my seeds (ideas).... but, 1 acorn can produce 1000 forests... so, I need to plant more than my @$$ - or my storehouse will go bare!

    My biggest regret - having not had more time to really travel, investigate, research, and study all the brilliant minds in a multitude of 'cultures outside' of my own (IN)formal education, upbringing, and the influences that remain externally evident - WE as a whole refute the ideology WE are all CONNECTED... in search of the FOREVER promised: independence, liberty, justice, and FREEDOMS that in essence -- do exist, but not in REALITY, as they are ALL metaphors and cannot be taken literally!

    Good luck trying to teach it, sell it, or position yourself as an expert in such fields of study... although, I do not discount the fact; plenty of others have established more VALUE after their death than some do in their entire lifetimes... I reside in the latter - having yet to produce something that will sustain after my departure from this body of..... WORK?

    IDK... not even sure WHY(?) - I would care enough to want to leave an inheritance for the next, when the inheritance we ALL share is ACCESS to a LIBRARY of KNOWLEDGE... and yet, so few recognize the POWER it contains, and even I have to admit; "I am NOT using the knowledge properly!"

    I MISS writing INVOICES!!!! - once upon a time, even just 3-5 invoices per week made ME happy...

    Today, I don't know if WE should be studying surviving an EMP or living through a NUKE?

    The news is seldom good... we are DRAWN to the negative by nature as a survival mechanism, and yet - those mature enough understand that there needs to be a balance, ANY shift too far to one extreme or the other... seldom ends well for the individual and contributes very little to the whole - IF YOU sincerely believe we are all connected...

    Then WHY are the LINES drawn so ONE-SIDED?

    Not trying to tackle the world or set ablaze the structured system(s) - but, as Gordon, savidge4, Claude, and others here ALL seem to agree - WE all want to ESCAPE some form of limitation, oppression, or financial WOES...

    And, I wrote this on my desk in 6th or 7th grade...

    How MUCH is ENOUGH? (with the words wrapped around a dollar symbol).

    Billionaires... still WANT or NEED more MONEY?

    No they WANT CONTROL!

    So do I, but that's an EXTREME - I cannot fathom.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Claude

    You hit an important point without realizing it. Poor people accept earning a small amount of money. But also have expensive bad habits. Like smoking and playing lotto scratch offers. Or pot some illegal drug or alcohol. Then if they take a vacation it's to Las Vegas they either spend a year Savin up or spoken a year paying off. Then there are payday loans or high interest car payments. And car insurance.

    Then there is a list of ways to waste money. But that represents a great way to earn money when 90 percent of the people who buy your products will not use them at all or all that much

    Think about fitness club memberships or streaming services
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Art

    I said income from wealth or assets. Is taxed lower than income earned from wages. Self employed are still basically working for wages and getting to pay all the taxes that the employers usually pay that employees don't see. All the safety net stuff that makes American workers more and more expensive and is behind outsourcing and the gig economy.


    And read what I said I said income from wealth is taxed at lower rates than income from wages. Much of the wealth in the USA is in real estate. Which is taxed differently. Then you get into capital gains

    A very wealthy person does not doesn't need to realize a huge amount of income. They are able to borrow against the assets they have at very low interest rates to acquire more assets.


    Elon musk could have done that when he he had to cash in some of his stock options. But bye selling a large amount of his shares at a high price. He lowered the value of the stock so when he cashed in the options a for millions of shares there was a tax savings . It complex.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Savage

    The people who believe wealth can be redistributed. See to think because Elon has a current net worth of250 billion dollars. He has that much cash to take and redistribute. We both know that is not true . But it is nearly impossible to explain it .

    There is a lot of hidden wealth in the world and half of the money that changes hand outside of the USA is in the shadow economy. All cash black market. But asset holders tend to greatly reduce the value of their asset. Until they are talking to a real buyer.

    I have a weird way of looking at things though. I don't care about how many people work for Amazon or how much they make if you don't factor in the millions of people running businesses through Amazon who would never be able to run a business. Air bnb Craig's list. Facebook marketplace Instagram YouTube.

    You mentioned people not having bank accounts. Labor pools and fast food companies and many others no long issue checks it is either direct deposit or pay cards. And 50 percent of the people in the USA don't make enough to pay taxes or are on fixed income that does not get taxed.

    That is one thing that gets left out of the income inequality garbage.33 percent of the population receives some money from the government that they will lose if the earn to much.

    People put a lot more effort into protecting what they already have than into getting more


    It's not a pride thing but I have no interest in living on hand outs I need to beg the government for . The mechanism of redistribution is great for employing large numbers of people.

    If you didn't tax people who made under 25,000 a year and. The simplified the tax code so it's the irs that sends people the list of everything that was reported to the irs . And the irs figured out the taxes . So the person just has to sign and verify. But that would put most of the tax preparation services out of business.
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  • All I know is, the only time I benefit from trickle down is when I pee musself aftah too many cocktails -- which, as a Princess, I can assure you only happens metaphorically.

    More likely, what we seein' is whooshyin' aside ...

    into (most observably) yachts, level ups for doobious crank ventyoores beneficial to the Whooshy Asidah an' his/her/its pet mania fetish, an' underground bunkahs for aftah money don't actschwlly mattah no more ha ha frickin' ha.

    Meantimes, most evrywan else fightin' ovah scraps.

    So why we payin' tax anyways?

    Accordin' to recent potential evidence, very soon everywan lives.

    They ain't screened for NUTHIN' -- speshly who their parents are.

    So they bust out.

    Into your tax system.

    As unwanted shibboleths, screamin' "FEED ME."

    Gotta figure always evry hooman may not always command immediate perfection of circumstance.

    I am happy to send you this message, an' I trust so muh very fingers always to hack out this kinda shit.

    But naht evrywan can command immediate perfection of circumstance like Moi.

    So what defines choice?

    'bout how the MuskyBezosphere may wish to elevate hoomankind once they fixed the nouveau roof?

    'bout how the reality compromised may co-exist with the abler-than-thou?

    'bout how sales depend on CHOICE? Of a Pro- vs Conscripted natyoore?

    What is so precious
    you would clutch it
    to your heart
    an' deny all others
    its glories?


    Why I sayin' this?

    Bcs the bedrock of all promo is communion with all in the loop.

    So what fyootyoore might you wish to advance if'n the loop suddnly around yr neck?

    What is Desirable in any noo epoch?
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Princess

    You asked a great question. Why do we pay taxes.

    In a country that has in its mythology that it was founded over taxes that the mythology leaves out only effected the rich. Who where those who built wealth here. In the time colonies.

    Why in the country that was founded by a those at the time built wealth. Does the tax policy do favor those who build wealth now


    90 percent of wealth built by one generation is squandered by the next two generations. So the government knows it will get its money eventually.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Taxes. Death.

      The so-called certainties of life.

      As a futurist, a known prognosticator of what lies ahead, let me tell you the future.

      Those who are a part of, involved in TECH, the controlling of human kind...and those that opt out.

      May be an oversimplification. But you Odahh, have a right mind when you think of tiny houses, self sustaining food and a SLOWER lifestyle.

      Slower is the new wealth. We've seen some of it in the pandemic, and now that the restrictions have mostly been lifted, a scurry of the rats back into the fast paced high tech society of tomorrow.

      Complete with stress, burn out, anxiety, depression, escapism...or just a back to normal.

      However, some got a taste of the slower life. NOT going to work. NOT driving on Xpress ways and concrete jungles...not being so around people, and they liked it.

      It gave rise the idea of the great quit, or resignation if you prefer.

      But many people asked, what am I doing and what else could I do? The GR (if there was one) spurred on the great IM growth.

      Tomorrow land will be high tech, and a surrender of personal privacy OR, a low tech opt out of a slower life, less things, fewer people albeit important ones.

      The problem of TAXES is going to be how they tax and keep track of those non smart wearing clothes people. Do nudists tax fewer clothes?

      Your shirt will alert you to potential bio hazards, your belt will let you know of any about to attack air borne critters, your hat will protect you from all UV and RF, except for the chip you allowed or the watch you are mandated to wear.

      If taxes are a big concern then isn't it a wise investment to have a good tax accountant working for you?

      But what the taxes will be used for, a "safer, better" world will come at a cost to the private citizen like never before.

      You may flee to Walden Pond, but big brother knows you're there, he sees you when your sleeping, he knows when you're awake...

      And there are 100000 satellites to keep the world a safe place.

      Oh, no poverty, agree to work for your tech, housing, food and spyware clothing will be provided.

      GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Princess

      You asked a great question. Why do we pay taxes.

      In a country that has in its mythology that it was founded over taxes that the mythology leaves out only effected the rich. Who where those who built wealth here. In the time colonies.

      Why in the country that was founded by a those at the time built wealth. Does the tax policy do favor those who build wealth now


      90 percent of wealth built by one generation is squandered by the next two generations. So the government knows it will get its money eventually.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    I want a clothes washer that washes clothes and see no need to have it hooked up to the internet of things. I'm one person i can get by with a 100 dollar portable washing machine and a clothes line or mini dryer that costs a few hundred.

    I want a mini house between 500-1000 sq ft that I can use a mini split air conditioner to cool. I want a place to live I'm not interested in it as some kind of investment. If I can run it off renewable power and build it with little or no debt. Then have enough land to grow much of my own food. Or a greenhouse to grow all year and set it up to have most of my living area as well. Add an electric vehicle I can charge with the solar system. And I'm not very tech savvy but is there a way to use the car battery as a battery store for the home.

    I'm not in a hurry trying to earn money to stuff in a retirement plan or the stock market for that time after I turn 70 where I retire. Then hope the money does not run out before my time on this earth runs out.

    I have been moving around the last seven years trying to find the climate conditions that suit me. The 25 year old me wanted to live close to a beach in a tropical country. The 44 year old me hates humidity and the weather changes in that climate. 100 plus degree dry desert weather most of the year is preferred. So it's now about what is appropriate for the type of lifestyle I want if I live in a desert.

    There is what people want based of dreams and one night stand /vacation /and sip testing. But the reality change when it becomes part of day to day life and a wider range of experience.

    If people are not sure what they want they need to start exploring different experiences good and bad and find out what they prefer
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      A tiny house my lord,
      on a flatbed Ford,
      slowing down so I could see.

      Apologies to The Eagles.

      Just West of Winslow, there are several tiny home builders, and new communities are springing up. Sometime in the next couple of years, more communities will arrive and maybe one will need a LIVE ON SITE manager, who is paid and gets a place to live too...and someone who has acquired the skills and knowledge to be that manager,

      Could create their own future.

      Or solve problems in the direction of your goals.

      Armed with a knowledge of tiny houses, tiny greenhouses, I would think a person could create a demand for their presence, and with a little marketing know how, might be able to create everything they want, almost out of thin air. Manifest your destiny!!

      GordonJ



      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Gordon

      I want a clothes washer that washes clothes and see no need to have it hooked up to the internet of things. I'm one person i can get by with a 100 dollar portable washing machine and a clothes line or mini dryer that costs a few hundred.

      I want a mini house between 500-1000 sq ft that I can use a mini split air conditioner to cool. I want a place to live I'm not interested in it as some kind of investment. If I can run it off renewable power and build it with little or no debt. Then have enough land to grow much of my own food. Or a greenhouse to grow all year and set it up to have most of my living area as well. Add an electric vehicle I can charge with the solar system. And I'm not very tech savvy but is there a way to use the car battery as a battery store for the home.

      I'm not in a hurry trying to earn money to stuff in a retirement plan or the stock market for that time after I turn 70 where I retire. Then hope the money does not run out before my time on this earth runs out.

      I have been moving around the last seven years trying to find the climate conditions that suit me. The 25 year old me wanted to live close to a beach in a tropical country. The 44 year old me hates humidity and the weather changes in that climate. 100 plus degree dry desert weather most of the year is preferred. So it's now about what is appropriate for the type of lifestyle I want if I live in a desert.

      There is what people want based of dreams and one night stand /vacation /and sip testing. But the reality change when it becomes part of day to day life and a wider range of experience.

      If people are not sure what they want they need to start exploring different experiences good and bad and find out what they prefer
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    A house between 500 square feet and 1000 square feet. 1 floor. Bedroom kitchen and bathroom with steam shower. Several acres of land.

    Navaho county where the tiny home community your talking about is and Cochise county one of those is probably where I will end up as they have both large tracks of cheap land and open building codes that allow for smaller houses and 300 days of sunshine.

    I'm working again and will probably head to live in Las Vegas while I earn the money to buy the land in Arizona. A lot more ways to get off the street fast in Las Vegas

    The boxable tiny house or an a frame maybe even a dome . Hell is set a small bed up in a corner of the greenhouse and then have an event for company to sleep in. Now I would buy new insulated containers to convert into rooms. Over time .
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      This may be the best plan (of the many, many) you have come up with over the years, I can see you in a few years LIVING this idea.

      If you can stick with it long enough, that is...

      And that is a seperate issue isn't it?

      GordonK


      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Gordon

      A house between 500 square feet and 1000 square feet. 1 floor. Bedroom kitchen and bathroom with steam shower. Several acres of land.

      Navaho county where the tiny home community your talking about is and Cochise county one of those is probably where I will end up as they have both large tracks of cheap land and open building codes that allow for smaller houses and 300 days of sunshine.

      I'm working again and will probably head to live in Las Vegas while I earn the money to buy the land in Arizona. A lot more ways to get off the street fast in Las Vegas

      The boxable tiny house or an a frame maybe even a dome . Hell is set a small bed up in a corner of the greenhouse and then have an event for company to sleep in. Now I would buy new insulated containers to convert into rooms. Over time .
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        This may be the best plan (of the many, many) you have come up with over the years, I can see you in a few years LIVING this idea.

        If you can stick with it long enough, that is...

        And that is a seperate issue isn't it?

        GordonK
        Not really much of a plan. It something I can pull off though. My plans have never really worked out. I just prefer a lifestyle with very low recurring expenses. And no personal debt.

        The quicker I get to that base of land small home and growing much of my food with everything paid for and having a long term way to make money.

        Instead of planning there are things I'm working on long term. So I make move that give me the chance to make more progress or experience certain conditions. To see what I do and don't prefer.

        This may sound off but if I'm not going to be rich or very wealthy I still have no interest in being around poor people in the USA.. with land I will probably let people park their tiny homes or rvs . Those are the people I would associate with anyhow.


        I have the ticket to Las Vegas booked for a week from now.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          So, you zig zag you way to some unknown time in the future, experiencing new conditions to find your preferences.

          Well, good luck with all that.

          One of the Hallmarks of Harvey Brody's success is planning. And I am a devotee and strong advocate of making plans.

          Your long term concept is like being in a pachinko machine hoping to land in a certain spot whilst being bounced around in different directions.

          If this eventually works for you, it will be great.

          And I willingly acknowledge your many times mentioning of your uniqueness and different type of thinking...

          however, for the majority of the Warriors...a well thought out plan of ACTION implemented will save them years of discovery while moving them toward their goal.

          I think I'll stick with the guy with 60 years of success, and his style of thinking but you being a maverick and all, may get there some day.

          Lack of a well thought out plan and action taken, will keep Warriors spinning their wheels for years, and we have ample evidence of that here, don't we?

          GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          Not really much of a plan. It something I can pull off though. My plans have never really worked out. I just prefer a lifestyle with very low recurring expenses. And no personal debt.

          The quicker I get to that base of land small home and growing much of my food with everything paid for and having a long term way to make money.

          Instead of planning there are things I'm working on long term. So I make move that give me the chance to make more progress or experience certain conditions. To see what I do and don't prefer.

          This may sound off but if I'm not going to be rich or very wealthy I still have no interest in being around poor people in the USA.. with land I will probably let people park their tiny homes or rvs . Those are the people I would associate with anyhow.


          I have the ticket to Las Vegas booked for a week from now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    My goals have manly been health an mental stability. In a world that told me to just take medications and get a disability check. So that has been the main reason for the zigzagging. In my case.

    I do need to get my blood pressure down but getting in a place where I can have a cpap machine. I am at the point where I have enough personal data that I can make plan I want the next 35 years to be a lot better than the last40

    I need to find a way to make money I enjoy. Personally if I go the house on wheels route I'd convert an old school bus

    Many of you seasoned successful people did your zigzagging and exploring in your late teens early twenties
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Harvey imagines a giant magnet under the table which he controls, and on top are the iron filings he wants to shape into a a beneficial conclusion.

    In order to do that, he has to know what the conclusion would be, one that HE can live with, and one that allows him control.

    All too often, especially at start-up or expansion, an Entrepreneur might do a deal which turns into a big headache or even a nightmare. It is a common mistake, because, these people don't have the ability to walk away from the table...

    and the other side knows it. See, THEY have all the power.

    Using the magnet under the table along with a known outcome, gives you the power, and as long as you can walk away without a deal, then you do have the power or can tilt the table in your favor.

    One example of this is a newbie copywriter or IMer may do a deal with a big marketing company and they have included an indemnification clause buried on page 3, paragraph 5 d...

    hidden in plain sight.

    And how this clause is structured and agreed upon could leave the copywriter on the hook for any legal claims regarding intellectual property violations (copyright, trademark or plagerism)...and litigation is NOT what you want.

    Just one of many such clauses which lets the BIG off the hook, cause their lawyers are smarter than yours.

    So, imagine a magnet under the table the next time you are across the desk, and ask yourself what EXACTLY is the outcome you want, and how can you manipulate the iron filings to align with that outcome.

    Mindset.

    GordonJ
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  • Gotta figure who might be a fyootyoore gene splice zillionaire.

    Mebbe she take Bezos' pop-eyed sparkle ... combine it with the weirdsy Musk water retention complexion ... an' top off the whole affair with Gates' infinitely circulah ability to p*ss most evrywan.

    I know we gaht frogspawn already, but is is fun to reinvent the wheel sumtimes -- even if only for amphibian means of bustin' outta the pond.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      If I were a younger man, (in my best Tevye voice) ya dibba dibba dibba....

      I'd put myself on the path of their ex wives, use NLP and Hypnosis and next thing you know, Jeff has made my life a piece of cake. I just need the princess to kiss my little toad...POOF

      GordonJ



      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      Gotta figure who might be a fyootyoore gene splice zillionaire.

      Mebbe she take Bezos' pop-eyed sparkle ... combine it with the weirdsy Musk water retention complexion ... an' top off the whole affair with Gates' infinitely circulah ability to p*ss most evrywan.

      I know we gaht frogspawn already, but is is fun to reinvent the wheel sumtimes -- even if only for amphibian means of bustin' outta the pond.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    As Gordon stated above, most the successful people I have ever met, seldom (if ever) shy away from being calculated risk takers. Taking risk and making informed calculated risks being very different from one another.

    As we grow older, the ability to take on more risk seems to shrink as health issues often increase, energy starts to decrease, and our human conditioning (stubbornness, LOL) all become factors, and I am certainly not innocent from ANY of these realities, personally.

    Clearly, I would prefer to be writing full-time and here I am jumping off into another business model that I have had some success with in the past, as more of a hobby than a full-time gig. And, as Gordon stated; I am doing the ONE to fuel another ambition, largely due to having grown bitter with my old methods of earning a living, and the reliance on others to sustain in those industries. So, the hate of the JOB - I used to love, has moved the needle to other risks and hopefully rewards.

    Admittedly, changing careers at 50 years old, almost feels insane - and yet, I love the fact that doing something completely random with NO CLIENT(s) or EMPLOYER is the thing that drives me to explore beyond the mediocrity of knowing beforehand - most jobs 'will not' provide financial comfort is enough for me to study the risks, make a few calculated decisions, and pursue opportunities that many will not dedicate to long enough to sustain any real success, as most entrepreneurs that I know... they work non-stop, if not physically, then mentally! (*if not both!)

    I think the problem for most (and myself) often falls under the reality, all business requires disciplines and even though most people can be taught to perform a variety of duties in a relatively short period of time and sustain a job, most do not want the risk, responsibility, or repercussions of FAILURE - and I could be wrong, but entrepreneurs almost seem to feed on failure - until they succeed! Whereas, many fall prey to failure and surrender.
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    Atop a tree with Buddha ain't a bad place to take rest!
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thanks to savidge4's brilliant post about eBay, and it is a complete lesson on making money, with very little investment, just keeping the money in circulation until it accumulates, is a god send for many starving Warriors.

      I know you are trying to follow it, and certainly if you do, your goals will be reached.

      But consider this: that thread was started over 3 years ago, and he has kept it up to date, adding as much useful, practical information as one can find on HOW to do it, yet I wonder how many Warriors have even tried it? Maybe a few have dabbled, but I guarantee there are Warriors who read that thread, and for the last two years have DONE NOTHING to apply it...

      even though, it could help with their money problems, or provide enough start up capital to pursue whatever else their dream might be.

      In the 40++ jobs I've had over the decades, I never took a job I hated, although there were a few part-time gigs I quit quickly, my fastest escape was 13 minutes, after a boss man yelled at me. NO, don't need that.

      So I'm not in a position to understand why someone would do something they hate, sure I get the responsibility/family part of it, but hating what you do at work is a poison you bring back home with you. But I do get that people feel stuck in a job they don't like or have come to dislike.

      But Entrepreneurship is different. A great worker, someone who loves his job/work, and puts in a lot of time for someone else, may not have the skills, as you mention, the discipline to face the failures that come with risk taking.

      The eBay thread, I can't see any RISK at all if one follows savidge4's advice, you just have to stay with it and keep the money circulating.

      I try to have compassion for those who have surrendered their time and hate their work in exchange for a payday, but it is hard for me to do...working on it, being less "harsh", and more empathetic, but maybe it is because my dad made us start paying rent when we were 15 and he took no excuses if we didn't pay on time. Was he a harsh man? Hardly, it is what he knew, how he grew up and quite honestly, it may have cost me some fun time (would have played more sports) but the life lessons of earning your keep were habits that became valuable over the years.

      And I find myself sometimes at odds with those who appear unwilling to earn their own keep, but I'm getting better.

      GordonJ



      As we grow older, the ability to take on more risk seems to shrink as health issues often increase, energy starts to decrease, and our human conditioning (stubbornness, LOL) all become factors, and I am certainly not innocent from ANY of these realities, personally.

      Clearly, I would prefer to be writing full-time and here I am jumping off into another business model that I have had some success with in the past, as more of a hobby than a full-time gig. And, as Gordon stated; I am doing the ONE to fuel another ambition, largely due to having grown bitter with my old methods of earning a living, and the reliance on others to sustain in those industries. So, the hate of the JOB - I used to love, has moved the needle to other risks and hopefully rewards.

      Admittedly, changing careers at 50 years old, almost feels insane - and yet, I love the fact that doing something completely random with NO CLIENT(s) or EMPLOYER is the thing that drives me to explore beyond the mediocrity of knowing beforehand - most jobs 'will not' provide financial comfort is enough for me to study the risks, make a few calculated decisions, and pursue opportunities that many will not dedicate to long enough to sustain any real success, as most entrepreneurs that I know... they work non-stop, if not physically, then mentally! (*if not both!)

      I think the problem for most (and myself) often falls under the reality, all business requires disciplines and even though most people can be taught to perform a variety of duties in a relatively short period of time and sustain a job, most do not want the risk, responsibility, or repercussions of FAILURE - and I could be wrong, but entrepreneurs almost seem to feed on failure - until they succeed! Whereas, many fall prey to failure and surrender.[/QUOTE]
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Thanks to savidge4's brilliant post about eBay, and it is a complete lesson on making money, with very little investment, just keeping the money in circulation until it accumulates, is a god send for many starving Warriors.

        I know you are trying to follow it, and certainly if you do, your goals will be reached.

        But consider this: that thread was started over 3 years ago, and he has kept it up to date, adding as much useful, practical information as one can find on HOW to do it, yet I wonder how many Warriors have even tried it? Maybe a few have dabbled, but I guarantee there are Warriors who read that thread, and for the last two years have DONE NOTHING to apply it...

        even though, it could help with their money problems, or provide enough start up capital to pursue whatever else their dream might be.

        In the 40++ jobs I've had over the decades, I never took a job I hated, although there were a few part-time gigs I quit quickly, my fastest escape was 13 minutes, after a boss man yelled at me. NO, don't need that.

        So I'm not in a position to understand why someone would do something they hate, sure I get the responsibility/family part of it, but hating what you do at work is a poison you bring back home with you. But I do get that people feel stuck in a job they don't like or have come to dislike.

        But Entrepreneurship is different. A great worker, someone who loves his job/work, and puts in a lot of time for someone else, may not have the skills, as you mention, the discipline to face the failures that come with risk taking.

        The eBay thread, I can't see any RISK at all if one follows savidge4's advice, you just have to stay with it and keep the money circulating.

        I try to have compassion for those who have surrendered their time and hate their work in exchange for a payday, but it is hard for me to do...working on it, being less "harsh", and more empathetic, but maybe it is because my dad made us start paying rent when we were 15 and he took no excuses if we didn't pay on time. Was he a harsh man? Hardly, it is what he knew, how he grew up and quite honestly, it may have cost me some fun time (would have played more sports) but the life lessons of earning your keep were habits that became valuable over the years.

        And I find myself sometimes at odds with those who appear unwilling to earn their own keep, but I'm getting better.

        GordonJ



        As we grow older, the ability to take on more risk seems to shrink as health issues often increase, energy starts to decrease, and our human conditioning (stubbornness, LOL) all become factors, and I am certainly not innocent from ANY of these realities, personally.

        Clearly, I would prefer to be writing full-time and here I am jumping off into another business model that I have had some success with in the past, as more of a hobby than a full-time gig. And, as Gordon stated; I am doing the ONE to fuel another ambition, largely due to having grown bitter with my old methods of earning a living, and the reliance on others to sustain in those industries. So, the hate of the JOB - I used to love, has moved the needle to other risks and hopefully rewards.

        Admittedly, changing careers at 50 years old, almost feels insane - and yet, I love the fact that doing something completely random with NO CLIENT(s) or EMPLOYER is the thing that drives me to explore beyond the mediocrity of knowing beforehand - most jobs 'will not' provide financial comfort is enough for me to study the risks, make a few calculated decisions, and pursue opportunities that many will not dedicate to long enough to sustain any real success, as most entrepreneurs that I know... they work non-stop, if not physically, then mentally! (*if not both!)

        I think the problem for most (and myself) often falls under the reality, all business requires disciplines and even though most people can be taught to perform a variety of duties in a relatively short period of time and sustain a job, most do not want the risk, responsibility, or repercussions of FAILURE - and I could be wrong, but entrepreneurs almost seem to feed on failure - until they succeed! Whereas, many fall prey to failure and surrender.
        Gordon J.

        I can definitely relate to the "growing up fast" and paying rent as that process started for me at 13, but not by outside instruction.

        Moreover, my father had a lot of issues after serving in V