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What is value?

by Artkantos
27 replies
I notice that "value" is a key word in marketing, but sometimes can be vague and get overused (give more value to your audience/clients)...What is value? And how is created? How it can be increased in our offers/content/networking? I have my own understanding and definition of it, but I would like to know what the forum think...I struggled with this concept when I was starting because I knew that "I had to add value", but by that time it really meant nothing for me
  • Profile picture of the author Just Jess
    The value is predetermined by the target market which means a product is worth what the market thinks is worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Although economists would attempt to answer this with a definite answer with some formula. That determines value in dollars.

    Value is what and individual or group of people will be willing to exchange for something.

    You have something I want. What will I give. I want to be safe how much effort am I willing to put out to be safe.

    There is a lot of fuzzy logic that an individual uses to determine a things value.

    So in adding value it's what can you do to make something worth more to the next person than you paid for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

    I notice that "value" is a key word in marketing, but sometimes can be vague and get overused (give more value to your audience/clients)...What is value? And how is created?
    Value is determined by how much someone wants the thing of value. It's completely subjective.

    When you read about "Creating value", you need to have someone in mind, that will see the value. I don't mean one person. In marketing, this will be a group.

    A slightly different idea, related to creating value, is matching the offer to the prospect. If the prospect feels that the offer perfectly matches what they want, that creates value.
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  • Profile picture of the author Artkantos
    100%
    I see there's more or less consensus that "value" is subjective, it depends on what an audience wants to give in exchange for something. For example, if I'm in the desert and I'm gonna die of thirst, you can be sure that I'll pay whatever I have for that regardless of the "objective value" of that water!

    Now, talking about ways of increasing value on an USP or an offer, what would some tangible ways to do it? Being lowering the price probably the worst
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

      100%
      I see there's more or less consensus that "value" is subjective, it depends on what an audience wants to give in exchange for something. For example, if I'm in the desert and I'm gonna die of thirst, you can be sure that I'll pay whatever I have for that regardless of the "objective value" of that water!

      Now, talking about ways of increasing value on an USP or an offer, what would some tangible ways to do it? Being lowering the price probably the worst
      Lowering the price is the most costly way to create demand. Every dollar you take off costs you a dollar. Everything else costs less. And having a low price only attracts the lowest 20% of buyers. The ones that price shop, only buy on sale.

      the best ways to build value are to fit the offer more closely to the prospects demands (or what they want), and do it in a way that is inexpensive or free you you, and makes the offer unique in the buyer's mind.

      This is how you sell commodities, where everyone sells the same offer, and price is the only difference. You add value in a way that separates you from the pack, in a way that is attractive to the buyer.

      It would be easier to help you if we had some idea of what you were wanting to sell. and who is your audience.
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      • Profile picture of the author Artkantos
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Lowering the price is the most costly way to create demand. Every dollar you take off costs you a dollar. Everything else costs less. And having a low price only attracts the lowest 20% of buyers. The ones that price show, only buy on sale.

        th best ways to build value are to fit the offer more closely to the prospects demands (or what they want), and do it in a way that is inexpensive or free you you, and makes the offer unique in the buyer's mind.

        This is how you sell commodities, where everyone sells the same offer, and price is the only difference. You add value in a way that separates you from the pack, in a way that is attractive to the buyer.

        It would be easier to help you if we had some idea of what you were wanting to sell. and who is your audience.
        This was more a discussion about this topic than something specific for my business (I have an online membership site on learning marketing and I do consulting for investors). For me, increasing the value of an offer for an audience goes through (obviously not lowering the price, I agree with you 100%) meeting their desired outcome, reducing the risk for them, shortening the period between the sale and the outcome and reducing the friction (making the outcome as desirable and painless as possible)

        And then being able to convey exactly this through your marketing!

        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        These are erroneous questions. A seller does not and cannot create or build value. The value of a purchase can only be determined by the customer. As a concept, it doesn't exist outside of that domain. If you think it does, you're confusing value with demand.

        The job of the seller is to create an irresistible offer. That's it. The value will take care of itself.
        I agree that you cannot "sell sand in the desert", if the market doesn't want a particular thing a seller is losing his/her time trying to sell that particular thing to that audience, doesn't matter how good of a seller he/she is or the amount of marketing

        However, if the market wants something, and the seller or the marketer can provide that, then there's a lot that can be done to increase the perceived value
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

          However, if the market wants something, and the seller or the marketer can provide that, then there's a lot that can be done to increase the perceived value
          OK. I see that throughout this thread, we're using the term "value" as a synonym for desire. Probably not surprising, but let's see if we can dig a bit deeper without getting bogged down in the semantics.

          On the matter of objectivity/subjectivity, we all seem to agree that value is subjective. However, unlike desire or covetousness or need - feelings that a marketer endeavours to generate in a buyer before the sale - the notion of value only ever happens after the sale. Often a long time after. And it's only created by the buyer, because it's a personal judgement that occurs in the buyer's mind based on factors unknown to and impossible to manipulate by the original seller.

          We can call a Rolex watch "valuable", but that's really just marketing speak for "expensive". I'd suggest the value of owning that watch would be vastly different to a billionaire than to someone who'd spent their life saving up for it.

          In the movie Pulp Fiction, Bruce Willis' character Butch, risks his life (with drastic repercussions for Marsellus and Vincent among others) to retrieve an old watch whose value to him was beyond any price. That watch's backstory was intensely personal. It's an extreme example, but we're all constantly assigning value to things in our lives, be they possessions or relationships, which usually have little or nothing to do with what we paid for them or what any marketer might have promised us pre-purchase. Again, buyers make that judgement. The reasons are their business.

          We brandish terms like "value-added" when we're really just competing on price without actually reducing the price. Maybe it is all semantics. Nevertheless, I'd argue that trying to create this thing called value is a distraction for a marketer. We can forget that it's not our job and lose focus on the offer. There are many weapons in a marketer's arsenal designed to kindle an irresistible desire in a prospect. Precise buttons to hit for a particular emotional response.

          But after the sale, let the buyer decide on the value.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

    I notice that "value" is a key word in marketing, but sometimes can be vague and get overused (give more value to your audience/clients)...What is value? And how is created? How it can be increased in our offers/content/networking?
    These are erroneous questions. A seller does not and cannot create or build value. The value of a purchase can only be determined by the customer. As a concept, it doesn't exist outside of that domain. If you think it does, you're confusing value with demand.

    The job of the seller is to create an irresistible offer. That's it. The value will take care of itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    There is a side f me that says "Yeah, Value is subjective" BUT that is really not a "truth" Gold and Silver... Stocks... Real Estate... Groceries... There is NOTHING subjective about these things.

    Get into "Super Cars" and what really is the value difference between a $400,000 car and a $3,000,000 car?

    So... We live in this very OBJECTIVE world... anything and everything we deal with in our daily lives has a price... it is what it is...and yet we subjectively try to meet buyers expectation of value.

    Think Ron Popeil or Billy Mays... would you pay $500... $250... how about 4 easy payments of... ?

    They set the expectation - the objective price... but wait there's more.... and they drop the bar. They set the objective cost...

    Selling a training course.. we could set up a one hour call a week for 10 weeks at $250 an hour.. OR you can buy this course, 10 hours of my time... $997 for a limited time. Objective / Subjective.

    My primary goal.. is to set an objective, and then lower the bar - to that subjective level.

    eBay is NOT full retail... but that is the Objective... market ( previously sold items ) is then the subjective "Market" price.

    Hope that makes sense?!
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    As I was in real estate appraising, I'll start by paraphrasing the value there:
    the price a typical consumer and a typical buyer, both free of duress and typically motivated, agree on.


    Value is the point, in money, where the seller is willing to part with his thing and the buyer is willing to part with his cash.


    The wrinkle is that there are many types of typical sellers and buyers, both typically motivated and not under duress to sell/buy.


    In real estate, a particular geographical area has the market for 2 bedroom condos, the market for 3-bedroom condos, the market for 3-bedroom houses around 1200 sq ft, the market for 3-bedroom houses around 1800 sq ft, the market for 4000-5000 sq ft houses.


    In marketing, it's the same.


    Take articles. You have the sellers and buyers who're after the 500-word article for $5, a group that would work with the same length but around 25, at the top, the people who get paid $400+ for a 500-word article (and the buyers of such).


    So, what is value is not a good question.



    What is value in x context, where x is clearly defined and at a pretty granular level.


    A Honda Civic around here sells, brand new for around 30k. And there's a good market for it. There's the market for Honda Civics that are slightly-used, around 25k.


    There are also people who buy Alpha Romeo's brand new around here. Some of them also have a Honda Civic... So, they play in both markets. And, of course, they have different expectations in each market.


    And, then, there are those who would never belong to the Alpha Romeo market and those who would never step (down) into the Civic market.


    And those who could afford easily an Alpha Romeo but for idiosyncratic reasons, never take part in it.


    So, Artkantos, what is the context of your question?
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    • Profile picture of the author Artkantos
      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      As I was in real estate appraising, I'll start by paraphrasing the value there:
      the price a typical consumer and a typical buyer, both free of duress and typically motivated, agree on.


      Value is the point, in money, where the seller is willing to part with his thing and the buyer is willing to part with his cash.


      The wrinkle is that there are many types of typical sellers and buyers, both typically motivated and not under duress to sell/buy.


      In real estate, a particular geographical area has the market for 2 bedroom condos, the market for 3-bedroom condos, the market for 3-bedroom houses around 1200 sq ft, the market for 3-bedroom houses around 1800 sq ft, the market for 4000-5000 sq ft houses.


      In marketing, it's the same.


      Take articles. You have the sellers and buyers who're after the 500-word article for $5, a group that would work with the same length but around 25, at the top, the people who get paid $400+ for a 500-word article (and the buyers of such).


      So, what is value is not a good question.



      What is value in x context, where x is clearly defined and at a pretty granular level.


      A Honda Civic around here sells, brand new for around 30k. And there's a good market for it. There's the market for Honda Civics that are slightly-used, around 25k.


      There are also people who buy Alpha Romeo's brand new around here. Some of them also have a Honda Civic... So, they play in both markets. And, of course, they have different expectations in each market.


      And, then, there are those who would never belong to the Alpha Romeo market and those who would never step (down) into the Civic market.


      And those who could afford easily an Alpha Romeo but for idiosyncratic reasons, never take part in it.


      So, Artkantos, what is the context of your question?
      Really good point...Obviously my consulting services on how to optimize your investing strategy will have a massive "value" for someone with 20k+ but almost zero value for someone with 2-3k because all his/her money will be gone just paying for the service.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

        Really good point...Obviously my consulting services on how to optimize your investing strategy will have a massive "value" for someone with 20k+ but almost zero value for someone with 2-3k because all his/her money will be gone just paying for the service.
        Oh I see your dilemma. Looks like you need to target people with6 or 7 figures to invest with you.

        Just my new vice armchair advice that could easily be ignored

        Why would someone with small amounts of money to invest even need consulting services that take suck a big bite out of the amount to invest.

        Is that the question you are really asking.
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        I am thinking a lot of people with 20k+ will perceive what you offer to have $0 value. Your job, in my opinion, is to find those who already see a lot of value in what you offer.


        It is not a good idea to go about creating/ adding value. It is a good idea to find what people value and then give it to them in exchange for money.


        To 'add value,' you have to present them with additional items/services they already value. So, you're not really adding value, unless you do not charge for the additional stuff.


        Which, in many circumstances, is possible (because it costs you nothing, or less than the increase in price, anyway.


        I once came across a guy who did real estate investing. He got really good at it, so he put together a course. Because he had been doing it for a while, he'd partnered with lots of people who found deals. When he wanted to get people to see extra value, he had them sign up (for free or little money) to his "deal alert' list. He shared with them new deals (he did not want) before he pitched them to everybody.


        Part of the shared info was his analysis of the costs involved in purchasing, rehabbing, selling the property and carrying it it sold.


        He could do an analysis in a matter of 2 to 5 minutes.


        If you're new at this or just don't know how to find deals and / or analyze them, that is a very valuable thing.


        McDonalds sells things separately and, for added value, bundles sandwich, fries and drink (and together, they're a bit cheaper each than if you buy only one or two or separately). You buy the three, you save some but spend more than if you only bought two of them.


        Affiliates and some others do white pages and booklets and other things you can share info through.


        Information, if it's good, is a great way to get people to perceive what you offer as more valuable. And, information, if you're good, comes easy to you and you create it only once but can send it to countless people till the info gets old. So, not much in terms of costs to you.


        So, what can you do?
        Bundle services for a price that's less than if services were sold separately (but more or much more than each would cost individually)>


        Info products?


        Can you partner with someone, maybe an accountant or attorney (working in a related field)?


        Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

        Really good point...Obviously my consulting services on how to optimize your investing strategy will have a massive "value" for someone with 20k+ but almost zero value for someone with 2-3k because all his/her money will be gone just paying for the service.
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        • Profile picture of the author Artkantos
          Originally Posted by DABK View Post

          I am thinking a lot of people with 20k+ will perceive what you offer to have $0 value. Your job, in my opinion, is to find those who already see a lot of value in what you offer.


          It is not a good idea to go about creating/ adding value. It is a good idea to find what people value and then give it to them in exchange for money.


          To 'add value,' you have to present them with additional items/services they already value. So, you're not really adding value, unless you do not charge for the additional stuff.


          Which, in many circumstances, is possible (because it costs you nothing, or less than the increase in price, anyway.


          I once came across a guy who did real estate investing. He got really good at it, so he put together a course. Because he had been doing it for a while, he'd partnered with lots of people who found deals. When he wanted to get people to see extra value, he had them sign up (for free or little money) to his "deal alert' list. He shared with them new deals (he did not want) before he pitched them to everybody.


          Part of the shared info was his analysis of the costs involved in purchasing, rehabbing, selling the property and carrying it it sold.


          He could do an analysis in a matter of 2 to 5 minutes.


          If you're new at this or just don't know how to find deals and / or analyze them, that is a very valuable thing.


          McDonalds sells things separately and, for added value, bundles sandwich, fries and drink (and together, they're a bit cheaper each than if you buy only one or two or separately). You buy the three, you save some but spend more than if you only bought two of them.


          Affiliates and some others do white pages and booklets and other things you can share info through.


          Information, if it's good, is a great way to get people to perceive what you offer as more valuable. And, information, if you're good, comes easy to you and you create it only once but can send it to countless people till the info gets old. So, not much in terms of costs to you.


          So, what can you do?
          Bundle services for a price that's less than if services were sold separately (but more or much more than each would cost individually)>


          Info products?


          Can you partner with someone, maybe an accountant or attorney (working in a related field)?
          Yeah, the 20k+ vs 2k example was more related to the previous comment, with 20k+ you can get a ROI enough to pay the services and get profit, with 2k you can't, so even when the service is the same, it can only be valuable for x audience. Ofc a 20k+ can see zero value on what I do and a 2k can see the value, but in practical terms, only the first one can benefit from this specific service.

          Cool example, the one of the real state, I'm expanding my network atm, looking precisely for those kind of opportunities

          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          Oh I see your dilemma. Looks like you need to target people with6 or 7 figures to invest with you.

          Just my new vice armchair advice that could easily be ignored

          Why would someone with small amounts of money to invest even need consulting services that take suck a big bite out of the amount to invest.

          Is that the question you are really asking.
          I think is a no brainer, you have 2-3k to invest and get some ROI out of it, you're not paying 2-3k in services to improve your ROI because there's no money left. I can give those people other solutions, but not that one.
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

            Yeah, the 20k+ vs 2k example was more related to the previous comment, with 20k+ you can get a ROI enough to pay the services and get profit, with 2k you can't, so even when the service is the same, it can only be valuable for x audience. Ofc a 20k+ can see zero value on what I do and a 2k can see the value, but in practical terms, only the first one can benefit from this specific service.

            Cool example, the one of the real state, I'm expanding my network atm, looking precisely for those kind of opportunities


            I think is a no brainer, you have 2-3k to invest and get some ROI out of it, you're not paying 2-3k in services to improve your ROI because there's no money left. I can give those people other solutions, but not that one.
            You seem to have a clear personal definition of value for your services.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Is the value in the OP actually $$$? Bringing value in terms of marketing I think is a whole other thing. Value could be the outward display of authority.

    Content like say what Gary Vaynerchuk shares everyday brings value... and he isnt necessarily selling anything.

    The perceived value of say a used car dealership ( building and services ) is far different from the value perceived with a new car dealership. a little shack vs a building with all glass and cars parked inside. You can say a place like CarMax that sells used cars, but is packaged more like a new car dealer... has created value.

    Packaging and presentation brings value. The packaging on say Apple products is far different than the pay as you go phones you find at Walmart.

    The 5 Star restaurant with a Maitre d and a Sommelier is vastly different than say McDonalds

    Bringing value in terms of online sales is NOT just a sales page with a great price... its the content that is shared in e-mail sequences and on websites and on Social that hmmm that sell things... but do more than selling. that shares knowledge and experience on a given topic or product
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    What is Valyoo anyways?

    Prolly this is a Horse vs Fish kinda question.

    As in, tamara, eithah there be NO HORSES or NO FISH bcs you chose that way.

    Too Stoopid Zamples forya?

    K, so mebbe narrow down to more choicy an' relevant THIS OR THAT stuffs makesya UNCOMFORTABLAH than no kinda Horse vs Fish conundrum.

    I believe the ultimate gnarl point for this POV is ... Life or Death!

    Line in sand.

    This vs That.

    Till only one winnah standin'.

    Hey, yeah, that is one POV on valyoo, I guess.

    Moi?

    I would wanna be Horse & Fish, sures.

    Not that I a Capricorn or nuthin', jus' bcs "&" prolly gaht more stayin' powah than "vs" on most keyboard, print, or speako areahs.

    Nuthin' to do with mythical animyools!

    Conjectyoore: if'n we don't gaht no hopptu-e'erwan ovah Horses Gone or Fish Gone, what you wanna be no longah here FOIST?

    The myootable community of the moment flickers an' bawls, yawns an' dies, cavorts an' mutes ... a sublime toss of potential yankables squirtin' out into twilight an' curtains like all seeds ever were immortalized.

    Where are the handholds here?

    Where is the Smoochie?

    What passes between us anyways?

    Valyoo is flooid & hoochy.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author spartan14
    Well its simple .Just think of a youtube video ,article ,answer you consume and you like it very much
    That means that person gives you answer to your problem and you like the content .This its called value ,you give to people what they need
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    • Profile picture of the author Artkantos
      Yeah, but for some people may be useful content, for others can mean nothing and for others can even be distracting and therefore "anti-value", so there's a point in what Frank said, that real value can only be given by the client, so focus on our offer, skills etcetera may be a better focus
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

        Yeah, but for some people may be useful content, for others can mean nothing and for others can even be distracting and therefore "anti-value", so there's a point in what Frank said, that real value can only be given by the client, so focus on our offer, skills etcetera may be a better focus
        The content is fine but what is the purpose of the discussion. Are you trying to increase the fees you charge or build a funnel to get more clients for your services.

        Don't worry about people who don't seem to get any value from what you do. Just limit the time you invest into them.

        If you already have clients figure out what value you give to them and then how to target and get more customers already predisposed to getting value from your services. Or from working with you.

        As a single operator you are as important as the service you provide if they are choosing you of several other choices.

        I'm sure the professionals here could better explain that if they understood what I'm trying to say
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        • Profile picture of the author Artkantos
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          The content is fine but what is the purpose of the discussion. Are you trying to increase the fees you charge or build a funnel to get more clients for your services.

          Don't worry about people who don't seem to get any value from what you do. Just limit the time you invest into them.

          If you already have clients figure out what value you give to them and then how to target and get more customers already predisposed to getting value from your services. Or from working with you.

          As a single operator you are as important as the service you provide if they are choosing you of several other choices.

          I'm sure the professionals here could better explain that if they understood what I'm trying to say
          I'm in the process of scaling atm, but I need to delegate, rethink and redesign my offer and my business because I don't seem to find the time with my current consulting clients
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

            I'm in the process of scaling atm, but I need to delegate, rethink and redesign my offer and my business because I don't seem to find the time with my current consulting clients
            Oh so you need to raise prices. That is probably something the professionals here who have decades of experience can help you with.

            I'll discuss concepts endless but it does look like you need to raise prices and you seem to already understand that.
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            • Profile picture of the author Artkantos
              Raise prices is definitely something I'll do for new clients, I could try to go from 1-1 to group service, train people to duplicate me, delegate tasks and put my know-how or part of it into info-products and similar...That's definitely the challenge!
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

                Raise prices is definitely something I'll do for new clients, I could try to go from 1-1 to group service, train people to duplicate me, delegate tasks and put my know-how or part of it into info-products and similar...That's definitely the challenge!
                This is where I step back and point at savage. He is the expert on scale.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Hi Artkantos: Great question. : )

    According to https://dictionary.cambridge.org Value= "To consider as something important and worth having." Personally I think "Value" can also mean creating/having/etc. something that is "Valuable" (="Something that is worth a lot ― either in terms of money ― or in terms of being useful or appreciated/loved.")

    Anyway, just my 2C.
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  • Profile picture of the author blairquane
    Originally Posted by Artkantos View Post

    I notice that "value" is a key word in marketing, but sometimes can be vague and get overused (give more value to your audience/clients)...What is value? And how is created? How it can be increased in our offers/content/networking? I have my own understanding and definition of it, but I would like to know what the forum think...I struggled with this concept when I was starting because I knew that "I had to add value", but by that time it really meant nothing for me
    Value is providing the customer with something that's useful to them. Something that solves a problem. Just look at products; they solve people's problems. Extra value, is when you solve people's problems but do it in a way that goes beyond what they're used to. Value is created through a thorough research and understanding of your target market and identifying their pain points and developing great solutions to those. When the customer experiences your solution, that's when value is delivered.
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    • Profile picture of the author Artkantos
      Good point; at the end of the day the key is to understand what are the customer pains or dreams and solve them the best way possible. This can be through product and services but also with free content, resources, share some insights, etcetera. The better and deeper de positive impact in your audience/community, the more your business grows. Hopefully someone new can get some value out of this thread and the more seasoned marketers too!
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