The Law of Attraction Works Give Me Some Proof

12 years ago

LOA has been helping me for 20 years now! I can't think of anything that it hasn't worked for me for, including great money, great health, wonderful relationships, a beautiful home in a gorgeous location! And I keep getting more and more to feel grateful for. I have attracted a wonderful project that I am working on that I am soon going to share with many Warriors!

JagSEO, why don't you share your LOA story? How you were on your way to being homeless in 48 hours and you connected with an incredible software team and you're getting a lot of money because of it (the software is on it's way to selling millions because of the action you took)! And then that's led you to so many other incredible projects and great friendships! I find your story awe-inspiring!

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JagSEO

12 years ago

Originally Posted by IntuitiveMonkey

LOA has been helping me for 20 years now! I can't think of anything that it hasn't worked for me for, including great money, great health, wonderful relationships, a beautiful home in a gorgeous location! And I keep getting more and more to feel grateful for. I have attracted a wonderful project that I am working on that I am soon going to share with many Warriors!

JagSEO, why don't you share your LOA story? How you were on your way to being homeless in 48 hours and you connected with an incredible software team and you're getting a lot of money because of it (the software is on it's way to selling millions because of the action you took)! And then that's led you to so many other incredible projects and great friendships! I find your story awe-inspiring!

I will soon Intuitive Monkey, I am holding on the positive vibration the Law of Attraction provides me, yah it works if you really believe in it.

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Odahh

12 years ago

to split hair

it not how it works it is that it works.

can you tel me how the little satellite wifi thing i an using ..both gets me on the interpreter ..gets me to this board to leave a message for you ..

how about about cloud computing ..can you tell me how the information will be stored..or just the principles used in the theory of it's storage .

we live surrounded by magic and mystery .

so the basics of loa are what happens to you is based of your state of being ..or more the baseline state of being .

so the basics are you should just feel better ..do what you need to do to make yourself feel better .

many people are just to attached to their misery so they get more thing to validate their misery

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Taniwha

12 years ago

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heavysm 12 years ago

There is another dimension of LoA that a lot of people step over.

Most people think that positive/wishful thinking plus action is all there is to the process but in addition you also have to slowly eradicate your the head trash you've accumulated over the years.

It's like trying to make a trash hoarders home look nice by adding in nice furniture; you first need to clean all the crap out before you lay down a clean and fresh foundation.

Once some space is created you can start adding in nice things and over time the overall look and feel of the house will become better.

But just as the house looks instantly better when all the trash is cleaned out (no pretty furnishings added yet) so too will you react to life better when you have fewer negative and limiting beliefs (the head trash) to weigh you down.

Things will only get better over time as you replace those crappy thoughts and mental projection of your current limited reality with a new balanced and healthy reality; the reality that you construct for yourself.

I did this over 6 years of hard work and toil going from a crazy dead end kitchen staff job to my own business. There is no comparison between the old and present me because i chose to make massive and incredible changes in my life.

One of the main premises of LoA is not simply that you attract what you want into your life. The primary effect is that you become a more loving and enlightened being. As you raise your personal power (or vibration as it's known spiritually) you face far less resistance overall in anything that you do.

You just feel happier, more fulfilled, less stressed and overall just amazing that you can live another day.

The manifestation aspect of LoA is really just a side effect of being a stronger more enlightened being.
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- IntuitiveMonkey 12 years ago
  
  @heavysm, How true, what you have written here! This is the same exact process that I went through and exactly what I wrote about how to do in my WF Post "Do you have LACK of money (or LACK of anything)? Here are the solutions!"
  
  Here is a small part of that post: "The reason people don't have flow is because they have blockages in their energy flow. The biggest blockage generally is lack of self confidence, self love, and self image. Many, many people have a worm in the dust mentality. "Who am I kidding? I don't deserve this! I can't do this. I'm not good enough." (Your inner critic constantly berates you day in day out -- my inner state used to be like this decades ago.) However there are many other blockages such as fear, worry, greed, etc.
  
  The other question is why do we have that trash inside us? The reason is in the process of growing up we are conditioned or programmed by our parents / society / world / peers to think and behave a certain way. These limitations / trash does not exist in babies. They are super-imposed on us from externally by the mass thinking of our world. So we can no longer be who we really are. So the process of LOA or spirituality is reclaiming who we really are, our true power, intuition, flow, natural abilities, natural health, natural prosperity, natural genius, natural creativity. All good things are natural to us when we can learn to reclaim our real selves or our real energies and start removing the conditioned responses or blockages or external "programming".
  
  We in our natural selves are extremely powerful beings where everything we need for the process of Life is provided for us by our Source! (Almost like the Garden of Eden. In the Bible it says "Seek ye first the Kingdom and the rest shall be added unto you" I am not religious but this passage is all about Life Force Energy! In my mind, this kingdom is this Flow (of Life Force or energy)! We reclaim the natural flow when we learn how to remove the trash. See my other WF post here and all this will become very clear!)
  
  The prevailing thinking of our world is that rational / logical thinking is #1 king and should rule our life and world. However Einstein, the greatest genius of our world said this:
  
  When we can allow our intuitive mind to have more say in our lives, then we can start to understand that we are not living our real selves and why our life / world is so messed up! Then we can start to see all the trash much more clearly. Seeing all this trash clearly and starting to remove it is a process! It is a process that I think that every human should go through! Then we will have a much more balanced and healthy world, full of incredible technologies (as people will be allowing their true genius and Light through!) I think millions are being motivated to work on this in the current times!
  
  Plus, I agree with you that once you remove the trash or blockages, then LOA is so easy and FUN! Because you are in FLOW! Everything becomes super exciting then, when your energies are clear!
  
  Thanks for sharing!
  
  --------------------------------------------
  
  I created a video about a year ago that I would like to share here. The video quality can be improved quite a bit I think, but the content is excellent. I think people will learn a lot from it. So that's why I want to share this here:
  It will show you how to let your true genius / creativity shine in your life and in our world!
  
  Natural, Passionate, Effortless Abundance Parts...
  
  Natural, Passionate, Effortless Abundance Parts...
  
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Odahh

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Taniwha

Those are horrible examples. Just because you don't know how things work doesn't make it "magic"..

You reminded me of:

i am used to getting disagreed with..on these boards but it is rare i get openly trolled .

many people have no clue how the tech they use every day works ..how stuff they buy in stores actually gets there .. or where the food they eat comes from ..

but they want absolute proof that a principle that jesus spoke of and is in the bible and many older books works .

to he who hath more shale be given to ho who hath not more shale be taken away .

personally anyone who need some other reward than just feeling better to feel better .. which is one of the problems with law of attraction as it is taught now ..because it is to focused on the out come of doing it to get stuff ..and less just feeling better because feeling better is good stuff in itself .

is that a better explanation of what i was trying to get at at 5 am in the morning before being awake

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JagSEO

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Odahh

i am used to getting disagreed with..on these boards but it is rare i get openly trolled .

many people have no clue how the tech they use every day works ..how stuff they buy in stores actually gets there .. or where the food they eat comes from ..

but they want absolute proof that a principle that jesus spoke of and is in the bible and many older books works .

to he who hath more shale be given to ho who hath not more shale be taken away .

personally anyone who need some other reward than just feeling better to feel better .. which is one of the problems with law of attraction as it is taught now ..because it is to focused on the out come of doing it to get stuff ..and less just feeling better because feeling better is good stuff in itself .

is that a better explanation of what i was trying to get at at 5 am in the morning before being awake

I believe practicing Law of Attraction is about commitment because you will be given a lot of everyday struggles and if you don't commit to it you will say it does not work and don't want to continue anymore.

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damiensuccess

12 years ago

Proof is everywhere but impossible to provide..

The only way to do so is by documenting intensely of one thought that you turned into an action.. then somehow record the effects of your action until it reflected back into your realm of influence.

It can't be done. If anybody think it can, please inspire me to this new discovery you have found.

The main reason people disbelieve LOA is because they are looking for something that does not exist, and that is proof. All you can find is people telling you stories of belief and understanding of how they got where they are.

Its real.. what can a person say?

Take these two extremes -

You and a stranger cross paths, and you decide you wanted to present yourself grumpy, and curl your lip at him while walking by.

You and a stranger cross paths, and you smile, prance, and give him a wink "Top of the day, Sir" as you prance by.

A month passes by and you have a big interview for a sales job,,, Oh what do you know. It was the man you crossed paths with... I would hope I was the happy go lucky guy :-D

My advice is to open your mind, and broaden your perspective, if you want to understand the law of attraction.

Cheerio

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C G

12 years ago

Steve Pavlina did an experiment on LOA a few years back.

Check this out:
Million Dollar Experiment

Cheers,

C.G.

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JagSEO 12 years ago

Originally Posted by C G

Steve Pavlina did an experiment on LOA a few years back.

Check this out:
Million Dollar Experiment

Cheers,

C.G.

OH wow I missed that post by Steve Pavlina, he is also my inspiration before in starting a blog about Personal Development.
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SandraLarkin

Banned 12 years ago

You can't just sit there and think of things and it happens. You have to align your thoughts, emotions, and beliefs together.

Often if you think of something you think is impossible to obtain your emotions will be the reverse of it, and you will often get the reverse of what you want the most.

You need to fully believe with your entire being you will get that thing that you want or that a situation will change, and then it will. If

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IntuitiveMonkey

12 years ago

Originally Posted by SandraLarkin

You can't just sit there and think of things and it happens. You have to align your thoughts, emotions, and beliefs together.

Often if you think of something you think is impossible to obtain your emotions will be the reverse of it, and you will often get the reverse of what you want the most.

You need to fully believe with your entire being you will get that thing that you want or that a situation will change, and then it will. If

I agree. However, the reason you don't have something in your experience is because you haven't believed it until now. So it is not easy to really believe something that you are not in the habit of thinking about / believing.

So I find that LOA works best when you work on and develop certain skills such as how to be a molder / sculptor of energies. Think energy. Also the ability to allow it or remain in joy. When you can think this way, what you want can happen in a matter of few days or in 48 hours even.

I am writing about the next step in thinking about & working with LOA which I am going to release soon. I have also written a WF post more about this topic here: Do You Have Lack Of Money (Or Lack Of Anything)? Here Are The Solutions! It is all about how to become more aware of your life energies (lot more than what's in the Secret.) Here is what Warrior VikramAnand wrote about the above post: "Super great post indeed! I really like the way you coherently explain the concept of Law of attraction. It requires much deeper understanding. Simply reading The Secret is not enough. Articles like yours gives a deeper understanding on how to actually understand and practice Law of attraction."

I agree, the Secret is not enough. You need a lot of personal experience with LOA or you need to keep reading experience of others. I had a personal mentor with it in the early years of my life who I kept asking questions from over about 15 years. He is my best friend who is also a Reverand. He is one of the most balanced Americans I have ever met (I live in India, but have spent over 30 years in US). I was just lucky to have him during the formative years of my life. I can never repay him for what he gave me. But I am just trying to pay it forward.

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Odahh

12 years ago

Originally Posted by SandraLarkin

You can't just sit there and think of things and it happens. You have to align your thoughts, emotions, and beliefs together.

Often if you think of something you think is impossible to obtain your emotions will be the reverse of it, and you will often get the reverse of what you want the most.

You need to fully believe with your entire being you will get that thing that you want or that a situation will change, and then it will. If

the live we have were part of the potentials our higher self saw before incarnating into this life time ..now i do not beliem in the traditional reincarnation or karma .. as just because my higher self had incarnations in the past ..that does not make them my past lives ..but past lives of my higher self . and with each lifetime there is a purpose .

this lifetime has been rough ..but in reflection it was to wake me up as fast as possible . where in many other lifetimes it may have just been to learn something ..or prepare for this one and maybe the next .

so yes i am going into my beliefs and i am way out on the fringe on this so you don't have to accept it as fact ..just visualize it as possible .

so if the Purpose of this life time is to fully awaken and stay in physical form..the things i attract will move that along ..now i can imagine and want a big huge mansion ..or a multi million dollar yacht or flying around on my own private jet .but if either of those hold me back from awakening fully ..they will not come ..though i do think the private jet and many large houses are in my future .

as i mention their is a baseline we attract from that we must work to move up .to grow into the big things we want .

right now i am renting a fairly small two bedroom house but it is much more roomy than my living conditions a few weeks ago .

next i attract the knowledge to earn the money to buy land and build a bigger house ..and then learn what i need to buy a bigger piece of land with a and build a mini resort with a several nice little houses ..

we are here to grow and have experience that unlimited beings cannot have without first convincing themselves they are extremely limited ..then pushing out those limits .

again my beliefs ..don't need to accept them as fact

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brewmeister

12 years ago

I believe in the LOA as well!

There's a great documentary on Netflix about it called the secret.

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ceenote100

12 years ago

I doubt that the law of attraction is an actual law to begin with. But I do believe that if you hold an image in your mind long enough and work at obtaining it, that image will become real.

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IntuitiveMonkey

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ceenote100

I doubt that the law of attraction is an actual law to begin with. But I do believe that if you hold an image in your mind long enough and work at obtaining it, that image will become real.

I believe that LOA is an actual Law, more immutable than the Law of gravity. What you think and feel you will get. It is totally life changing once you get it and understand the implications of it. The problem is that most people just haven't gotten it as yet. Most humans are just at the very start of grasping it and what it means for their lives and for our world. However millions are working with it so the impact of LOA in our world is growing steadily. Soon, incredible technologies will come.

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Ryan3

12 years ago

scientific proof.

The Law of Attraction Explained by Quantum...

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Jarrod 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan3

scientific proof.

I personally believe in the LOA (albeit with some notable exceptions to what a lot of the "gurus" teach) but I would hesitate very much to use quantum physics as any sort of scientific proof. If the greatest minds in physics today have a hard time grasping quantum physics, how likely are the self-help gurus to have it figured out?
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MoneyHop 12 years ago

This is cool
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VersaceKillers

12 years ago

Hello JagSEO,

The famous quote "Your thoughts create your reality" It's true. I won't explain but i'll give you a video to watch which tells you everything about it.

The law of attraction is simple. "Like attracts like"

For example if i have a math test at school and i'm thinking that "I haven't studied for the test, i'm going to fail" then i will FAIL, because "thoughts create reality", however if i be positive and think to myself "The math test shouldn't be that hard, i'll pass it easily" Then i will pass it, that's how the law of attraction works.

Here's a documentary called "The Secret" about the Law of attraction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-zWOPB9Wo

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Josh Mayers

12 years ago

Hey,

When I finally found out how the law of attraction worked, it was almost as if I unlocked a secret to getting/accomplishing anything that I want in my life.

Unfortunately, there are many people who are not only unaware of the power of the human mind, but they also don't know how to use it.

I use the law of attraction to attract anything that I want in my life, and I must say, after focusing on something for so long, you are bound to get it. It is just how the universe works. Your strongest thoughts become a reality.

-Josh

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JagSEO

12 years ago

Wow! I've learned a lot from all the post and your belief about Law of Attraction. Keep it coming guys.

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selfdisciplineacademy

12 years ago

I personally don't believe that you can think about cheques and they will come in. You can't stuff your face with sweets, think of sixpacks and achieve it.

ACTION is the way to success.

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heavysm

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JagSEO

I believe practicing Law of Attraction is about commitment because you will be given a lot of everyday struggles and if you don't commit to it you will say it does not work and don't want to continue anymore.

As a deeper understanding of LoA shows us...those struggles are an inward reflection of our internal doubt we have of ourselves. If there was 100% unwavering belief, namely in the subconscious, everything would be effortless.

It's just that people don't get that smoothing out the subconscious is its own journey in and of itself.

Originally Posted by selfdisciplineacademy

I personally don't believe that you can think about cheques and they will come in. You can't stuff your face with sweets, think of sixpacks and achieve it.

ACTION is the way to success.

It's action as accompanied by complete trust and surrender and "knowingness" that what we want is being pulled to us, however slow or fast, simply by putting into thought form (thinking about it a lot).

Trust and surrender here can be further simplified as:

trust = knowingness that the universe supplies us with what we want.

surrender = dissolving of all mental blockades or barriers that prevent full knowingness to come through

This means that you have an intention, whatever your goal is, and you have complete surrendering to the universe that your intention can be freely carried out.

The universe feels your doubt just like you can feel it. It feels the butterflys in your gut, your mental hesitation...ALL OF IT!

So setting an intention while having deep doubt that you can attain that thing (whatever your goal is) is literally like driving with one foot on gas and brake. You are bound to experience massive resistance while taking action like most of the population feels and experiences.

One massive belief switch (how LoA changed me personally) that i had to pull on myself over the past 5 years is very specific and pretty much proves to me that LoA works...because i concentrated on it so much my reality shifted.

Previously bad things would happen at random points from things I wouldn't expect. Car breaks down when i thought it was fine, school grades are horrible when i thought i was doing well...etc.

As a thought experiment i concentrated on creating the opposite. A situation where things seem bad or not so good, but everything turns out waaaay better than before. That would certainly change my reality for the better over time in leaps and bounds!

It took about 3 years to completely solidify the mindset...but exactly what i concentrated on has come into being.

I have seemingly bad situations, but they now turn out extraordinarily well! That's no accident because my thoughts changed reality and my attractive force.

Small example of this:

My rental car gets vandalized. I panic wondering if I am covered because the damage is extensive (in the US this could be $1000's in extra fees for rental cars). Somehow, unknowingly, i had signed myself up for the perfect insurance that covered the car and gave me extra points for a free rental. Situation shifts from bad to amazing in an instant =)

There are other examples i can share. The most recent of which dealt with my university graduation. I was told i needed 9 additional classes to graduate because there was something wrong with my paperwork that i transferred into the school with.

I spoke with no less than 4 different managerial counselors who told me that i could graduate (walk at ceremony) but there would be no degree sent to me unless those 9 classes i had missing were completed.

Having to take 9 additional classes would be an entire extra year at university (i run a business as my primary income, so I'm not taking 4+ classes per quarter!) so that's several thousand $$$ needed for an additional year of school. This made me incredibly anxious for several months until just recently i was sent an email that the proper paperwork was found in my academic record and i was now cleared to receive my degree (with no effort at all on my end, they just found the damned papers).

If you don't believe LoA will work, that will be your truth. If you do believe it will work, that will also become your truth. It's crazy how we can become our own self fulfilling prophesies of creation, but that's exactly what we are: creators.

Clean the dirt and clutter out of your mentality and embrace the infinite being you are. The sky isn't even the limit here. You're only limited to how much you do or don't attract to yourself. That is all

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cyberzolo

12 years ago

Bro just believe...if you think the LOA won't work, then it won't work!

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Vincent Joseph

12 years ago

Well you reap what you sow. If you work hard... you will attract reward!

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bhaitain 12 years ago

Name me one billionaire who attributes most if not all of their success to the LoA?
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- C G 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bhaitain
  
  Name me one billionaire who attributes most if not all of their success to the LoA?
  
  Oprah Winfrey uses LOA
  
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Young Financier

12 years ago

The more appropriate way to describe the Law of Attraction is "self-fulfilling prophecy." There's nothing mystical,magical or even metaphysical about it...it's basic psychology.

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HDRider 12 years ago

Many years ago I needed proof too so I started an experiment. I used LOA and thought of something really odd, something you would never ever expect and I said if that showed up in my life there's my proof. I worked, the EXACT thing I visualized showed up a week later, I got chills.

Been using it ever since. Have to learn how to use it properly
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nickherc

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

The more appropriate way to describe the Law of Attraction is "self-fulfilling prophecy." There's nothing mystical,magical or even metaphysical about it...it's basic psychology.

I agree 100%. It's just a form of focus, for the lack of a better word. Nothing mystical.
Still, a good psychological tool, if that is something you need.

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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

A lot of great comments and posts on this topic. Thanks to everyone that has shared their insight.

I just want to add a couple of things to hopefully bring more clarity. LoA is a name that was given to a concept or principle of nature. It is not some new thing to recently come along.

Napoleon hill talks about it extensively in his book called Law of Success (1928) as do others from his time.

It is a concept that revolves around how we think and feel. Emotions are the critical element, because they tell you whether you are on the right path. What emotions are you experiencing? How do you feel? If things are feeling good, you are on the right path.

Just as there are subconscious thoughts, there are low-level emotions (thoughts and emotions that are active below the realm of consciousness). This is where most people have issues. It's not that difficult to control and direct conscious thoughts and emotions. It's the other ones that we have to master.

The two biggest issues that people have is resistance and self-limiting beliefs. You can't just "focus on something" or "feel better" -- you have to get rid of the resistance and the limiting beliefs first.

Next, you have to create in your mind, not one specific thing (this is not a "get stuff" concept), but instead an entire lifestyle. What do you want your life to be like -- in every aspect? Create that in your mind first, then write it down. Then PLAY with that vision regularly.

Lastly, you have to become aware. As you begin to work on all of the things I describe above and actively believe that you are moving forward towards the lifestyle you want, opportunities will begin to open up. You will notice them (whereas before you would not -- because you were not tuned into them). Take action on these opportunities.

Just to be clear: let's say one thing you want in your lifestyle is a black 2014 Lexus ES 300h (notice the specificity). When we say "attract the car" you are not really attracting the physical object of the car. You are attracting information, events, people, and circumstances that are related to you getting the car. You are attracting "noticing these opportunities" and then taking action on them. That's LoA in a nutshell.

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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

Lastly, you have to become aware. As you begin to work on all of the things I describe above and actively believe that you are moving forward towards the lifestyle you want, opportunities will begin to open up. You will notice them (whereas before you would not -- because you were not tuned into them). Take action on these opportunities.

Just to be clear: let's say one thing you want in your lifestyle is a black 2014 Lexus ES 300h (notice the specificity). When we say "attract the car" you are not really attracting the physical object of the car. You are attracting information, events, people, and circumstances that are related to you getting the car. You are attracting "noticing these opportunities" and then taking action on them. That's LoA in a nutshell.

@Young Financier -- I completely respect your opinion, but I have to point out the shaky logic in your post. Russel Poldrack is discussing some aspect of Law of Attraction that is not real. The brain's magnetic field has nothing to do with LoA -- it doesn't attract physical objects. That is a complete misunderstanding of what LoA is about (see the quote from my original post above)..

The German study you referenced is also not valid in terms of LoA or positive thinking. Positive thinking does not promote "not taking action". There is no wasted time in positive thinking, unless all you do is think. Positive thinking is a lifestyle, not something that consumes unnecessary time. Meditation is the only part of LoA or Positive Thinking that someone might consider "idle" time. But, the purpose of meditation has nothing to do with some outcome -- it has everything to do with relaxation, unwinding, disconnecting from the conscious mind. This can take 5 minutes to 60 minutes. It can't possibly derail someone's productive work for an entire week.

The Psychology Today article is also invalid in discussing real Positive Thinking or LoA. Nothing in either philosophy suggests that you should ignore legitimate obstacles. The problem that the article discusses is real - there are people who try to "be positive" and then ignore their obstacles. But, who in the Positive Thinking community suggested that this was a good idea?

My point is this. If you are going to criticize LoA and Positive Thinking then you have to reference information that is actually about LoA and Positive Thinking. None of what you posted has anything to do with what these two philosophies are about.

then when (LOA) it dosen't work, it's the same response talking to an astrologer - It's your fault!

If I hand you a barbell and tell you that if you do curls you will get larger biceps --- but then you don't use proper breathing techniques, you don't use proper posture, you don't work through a full range of motion, you don't squeeze the muscle at the top of the contraction, you drop the weight back down rather than lowering slowly, and you don't eat nutritious meals -- who will you blame when you don't get larger biceps?

There is no debate about whether Positive Thinking works -- some people disagree and that is their choice. But, those who actively and correctly use the concepts know that there are real and legitimate results. Just because some people don't understand that or choose not to believe in it, doesn't make it false.

The Amish reject electrical technology, but they can't deny that airplanes fly through the sky. It's real, it happens. I know what I have experienced in my life and I know that many others have experienced the same. I know that I get much better results in my life when I think positive and feel happy emotions. There were many parts of my life spent in anger and the results were never good.

My hallucination is that you have been looking at what the "pie in the sky" people and the New Age community call "Law of Attraction". They may use some aspect of Law of Attraction", but the rest of what they talk about is not. You have to separate the real from the unreal -- the legitimate from the hype.

I'd be glad to discuss any aspect of LoA or Positive Thinking with you, as long as we can talk about real things. Keep in mind that much of what you hear about LoA are analogies or the best way to explain something that can be difficult to understand. If you are taking these things literally or not fully understanding what is meant, then you will have a distorted view of what is being discussed. Hopefully that makes sense -- not trying to criticize you at all. I'm only pointing you in a new direction for your research -- one that hopefully will be more productive for you.

Thanks
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kirbymarketingconcierge

12 years ago

from rbarnhatt

I'd be glad to discuss any aspect of LoA or Positive Thinking with you, as long as we can talk about real things.

don't confuse proof, and faith.

if you believe LOA works,

and you have proof - show a scientific experiment, then see it replicated over and over.

proof is not debating someone's reply.

and, you lose the argument when you ask someone to get "real"

I have proof fire burns skin - does anybody doubt it? 3rd degree burns are pretty "real"

and I can Prove that.

Thanks
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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

Hey Kirby, thanks for the comment. I understand what you mean regarding "get real". But I wasn't talking about LoA. The articles that were posted were not debunking LoA or positive thinking, as the original poster suggested. They were not real in terms of being proof against those things.

Perhaps I should have said "compare apples to apples".

When you say "do an experiment", that is just an easy out.

Not everything can be or needs to be experimented. Your fire example needs no experiment. Everyone already knows it to be true.

With some things, there are too many variables to account for. I have a great cure for hiccups. It works for me every time I use it. But, someone else could follow my procedure and get no results. Does that mean that I have more faith in my cure than other people?

Or, is it more accurate to say that there may be multiple variables that are unaccounted for?

That's the best I can explain for now. Let me know if that makes sense

Thanks
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kirbymarketingconcierge

12 years ago

seperate the faith/belief : I want it to be true

from the reality : is it true or not

if you had a cure for hiccups.

you show it's true.
to people, investors, pharmaceutical companies, etc.., Cause and Effect

then you are a very rich person!

Definition of :

Hiccups occur when a spasm contracts the diaphragm, a large sheet of muscle that separates the chest cavity from the abdominal cavity. This spasm causes an intake of breath that is suddenly stopped by the closure of the vocal cords (glottis). This closure causes the characteristic "hiccup" sound.

notice this really is a law: a biological, physiological, physical law

big difference.

Thanks
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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

Hi Kirby,

While I appreciate your comments, at this point I am not sure if our conversation is productive.

You keep telling me to separate faith from reality and yet I have said nothing that is based on faith.

if you had a cure for hiccups.

I have been using my method to stop hiccups for 25 years+ and it has not failed one time. But, that has nothing to do with my point about hiccups.

you show it's true.
to people, investors, pharmaceutical companies, etc.., Cause and Effect

While this is comical (and creative), it has nothing to do with my example. The whole point about my hiccup cure is that it would be hard to perform an experiment on it. Why? Because there are multiple and potentially unknown variables.

What if I explained the method to you, but you didn't understand it correctly? You wouldn't get the same result
What if you have a condition that prevents you from holding your breath in the correct way? You wouldn't get the same result
What if you forgot one critical step in the process? You wouldn't get the same result
What if the muscles around your diaphragm are weaker than mine and you can't perform the movement that I can? You won't get the same result

These are called variables. Some can be adjusted and corrected, others can only be corrected and adjusted if they are known. Some variables may completely and permanently block results (for example, someone with COPD probably can't hold their breath the way I do or for as long, and so they would not get the results -- ever). Other people have tried my method and have gotten the same results that I have. So, apparently, if you can follow the instructions and are not limited by variables, you can get the same result. That is cause and effect.

notice this really is a law: a biological, physiological, physical law

The assumption you're making is that the method I use to cure hiccups is not based on a biological, physiological, physical law. Quoting from the same WebMd article that you quoted from:

"Some of these remedies include: Holding your breath and counting slowly to 10 and Quickly drinking a glass of cold water"

My cure uses a variation of this concept, but goes beyond it in several ways. I've tried just drinking water and holding my breath many times and that alone rarely does anything for me. But, the method that I use does work.

As a bonus, if you look at the causes of hiccups listed on WebMD, none of them are the cause of my hiccups. Which means.....we have more unknown variables.

One more bonus -- if we actually wanted to perform such an experiment and test multiple conditions -- would we have to induce hiccups or wait for someone to get the hiccups? I get them maybe 3 times per year, so that could be a rather inconvenient experiment. The point of all of this is simply that it can be difficult to perform experiments on some things (such as curing hiccups).

So, now that we've completely deconstructed and reconstructed my example about variables in experiments, can you explain what was incorrect about my original comment?

I said that things such as LoA are not good candidates for experiments because there are many unknown variables. But, obviously, just because we can't do valid experiments doesn't negate the results that many people have gotten and continue to get. Just as before the apple fell on Newton's head, gravity actually existed and functioned just fine (no faith required).

I would be more than willing to continue our conversation. But, if we are going to spend time attacking/defending examples and illustrations, we should probably just move on.

Thanks
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kirbymarketingconcierge

12 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

Hi Kirby,

While I appreciate your comments, at this point I am not sure if our conversation is productive.

You keep telling me to separate faith from reality and yet I have said nothing that is based on faith.

I have been using my method to stop hiccups for 25 years+ and it has not failed one time. But, that has nothing to do with my point about hiccups.

While this is comical (and creative), it has nothing to do with my example. The whole point about my hiccup cure is that it would be hard to perform an experiment on it. Why? Because there are multiple and potentially unknown variables.

What if I explained the method to you, but you didn't understand it correctly? You wouldn't get the same result
What if you have a condition that prevents you from holding your breath in the correct way? You wouldn't get the same result
What if you forgot one critical step in the process? You wouldn't get the same result
What if the muscles around your diaphragm are weaker than mine and you can't perform the movement that I can? You won't get the same result

These are called variables. Some can be adjusted and corrected, others can only be corrected and adjusted if they are known. Some variables may completely and permanently block results (for example, someone with COPD probably can't hold their breath the way I do or for as long, and so they would not get the results -- ever). Other people have tried my method and have gotten the same results that I have. So, apparently, if you can follow the instructions and are not limited by variables, you can get the same result. That is cause and effect.

The assumption you're making is that the method I use to cure hiccups is not based on a biological, physiological, physical law. Quoting from the same WebMd article that you quoted from:

"Some of these remedies include: Holding your breath and counting slowly to 10 and Quickly drinking a glass of cold water"

My cure uses a variation of this concept, but goes beyond it in several ways. I've tried just drinking water and holding my breath many times and that alone rarely does anything for me. But, the method that I use does work.

As a bonus, if you look at the causes of hiccups listed on WebMD, none of them are the cause of my hiccups. Which means.....we have more unknown variables.

One more bonus -- if we actually wanted to perform such an experiment and test multiple conditions -- would we have to induce hiccups or wait for someone to get the hiccups? I get them maybe 3 times per year, so that could be a rather inconvenient experiment. The point of all of this is simply that it can be difficult to perform experiments on some things (such as curing hiccups).

So, now that we've completely deconstructed and reconstructed my example about variables in experiments, can you explain what was incorrect about my original comment?

I said that things such as LoA are not good candidates for experiments because there are many unknown variables. But, obviously, just because we can't do valid experiments doesn't negate the results that many people have gotten and continue to get. Just as before the apple fell on Newton's head, gravity actually existed and functioned just fine (no faith required).

I would be more than willing to continue our conversation. But, if we are going to spend time attacking/defending examples and illustrations, we should probably just move on.

ok. you're right. not productive going this route.

the thread started out as looking for proof of LOA.

Update

just looked at thread title again.

member is looking for proof of LOA, and believes it works.

since I can state, I don't believe it, because I have no proof it does, I will drop off this thread

this is for believers only

my sincere apologies for members looking for confirmation and support. I have a "big mouth" even virtually!

Thanks
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rbarnhart1 12 years ago

Hi Kirby. I don't think you have a big mouth at all. You have an opinion that is valid and worth discussing.

In fact, as a non-believer, your argument is completely understandable. I have two goals in mind: one, I want to make sure that we are talking about the same thing; two, I want to share ideas that are worth discussing.

The question I would ask you is: what is it that you don't believe in? You see, there is a ton of misinformation on the Internet about thousands of various topics, and LoA is just one of them.

If you look at what it is that you don't believe in, I think you'll find that you and I are in agreement on many of them.

For example, one common belief about LoA is that all you have to do is think happy, positive thoughts and you'll get everything you want. I do not believe that, and I assume that you do not either.

Also, a common belief is that LoA has something to do with magnets or magnetism. It does not. It is a horrible analogy that has been used hundreds of times. In fact, the word "attract" is a horrible misnomer.

The reality is, Law of Attraction used to be called Personal Development, before The Secret turned it into Law of Attraction. So, let me ask you this: do you believe in personal development? Do you believe there is something you could do today that would make your life better than it is currently?

If you answered yes, then you and I probably believe many similar things.

Law of Attraction is not a "get stuff" mechanism as many people believe. It is a way of life, a way of thinking, and a way of feeling. The "stuff" that you get is a by-product of living life in a certain way. The only thing that you "attract" is noticing thoughts, events, information, people, and opportunities related to what you want. Those things already existed -- they were already there. But, people who do not think, feel, and live life in a certain way will never notice these opportunities and will certainly never take appropriate action even if they do see them.

Are you sure you don't believe in law of attraction? I don't believe in the New Age version of law of attraction. They may call what they do "law of attraction", but I do not agree with that. I assume you do not either.

So, the only thing that I want to do is challenge you to think about it, explore it, and attempt to understand it -- rather than not believing. Not believing can be just as bad as believing. Both positions are not interested in exploring and learning. They are only interested in defending what they choose to believe.

What is law of attraction? Is everything you've heard about it accurate? Can you explain all of the processes and principles of law of attraction and fully understand what the opposition means by it?

For example, do you know what resistance is as it relates to your thoughts and feelings? Do you have any self-limiting beliefs that are causing resistance within you? If you do, how many strategies do you know that could remove that resistance? If you removed resistance from your life and you felt better because of it, would that be valuable to you?

Notice I did not say anything about "getting stuff" because LoA is not about getting stuff. If you're curious about this and would like to learn more about it, I'd be honored to have that discussion. Keep in mind that understanding and experience leads to proof. It may not be "scientific" proof, but if your experience leads you to a better life, perhaps that is not necessary. Kirby, best wishes to you in your business and in your pursuit of success. Let me know if you would like to discuss this further.
- Thanks
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Young Financier

12 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

@Young Financier -- I completely respect your opinion, but I have to point out the shaky logic in your post. Russel Poldrack is discussing some aspect of Law of Attraction that is not real. The brain's magnetic field has nothing to do with LoA -- it doesn't attract physical objects. That is a complete misunderstanding of what LoA is about (see the quote from my original post above)..

The German study you referenced is also not valid in terms of LoA or positive thinking. Positive thinking does not promote "not taking action". There is no wasted time in positive thinking, unless all you do is think. Positive thinking is a lifestyle, not something that consumes unnecessary time. Meditation is the only part of LoA or Positive Thinking that someone might consider "idle" time. But, the purpose of meditation has nothing to do with some outcome -- it has everything to do with relaxation, unwinding, disconnecting from the conscious mind. This can take 5 minutes to 60 minutes. It can't possibly derail someone's productive work for an entire week.

The Psychology Today article is also invalid in discussing real Positive Thinking or LoA. Nothing in either philosophy suggests that you should ignore legitimate obstacles. The problem that the article discusses is real - there are people who try to "be positive" and then ignore their obstacles. But, who in the Positive Thinking community suggested that this was a good idea?

My point is this. If you are going to criticize LoA and Positive Thinking then you have to reference information that is actually about LoA and Positive Thinking. None of what you posted has anything to do with what these two philosophies are about.

If I hand you a barbell and tell you that if you do curls you will get larger biceps --- but then you don't use proper breathing techniques, you don't use proper posture, you don't work through a full range of motion, you don't squeeze the muscle at the top of the contraction, you drop the weight back down rather than lowering slowly, and you don't eat nutritious meals -- who will you blame when you don't get larger biceps?

There is no debate about whether Positive Thinking works -- some people disagree and that is their choice. But, those who actively and correctly use the concepts know that there are real and legitimate results. Just because some people don't understand that or choose not to believe in it, doesn't make it false.

The Amish reject electrical technology, but they can't deny that airplanes fly through the sky. It's real, it happens. I know what I have experienced in my life and I know that many others have experienced the same. I know that I get much better results in my life when I think positive and feel happy emotions. There were many parts of my life spent in anger and the results were never good.

My hallucination is that you have been looking at what the "pie in the sky" people and the New Age community call "Law of Attraction". They may use some aspect of Law of Attraction", but the rest of what they talk about is not. You have to separate the real from the unreal -- the legitimate from the hype.

I'd be glad to discuss any aspect of LoA or Positive Thinking with you, as long as we can talk about real things. Keep in mind that much of what you hear about LoA are analogies or the best way to explain something that can be difficult to understand. If you are taking these things literally or not fully understanding what is meant, then you will have a distorted view of what is being discussed. Hopefully that makes sense -- not trying to criticize you at all. I'm only pointing you in a new direction for your research -- one that hopefully will be more productive for you.

Actually, my logic is on very firm ground. I used to drink the kool-aid the LoA teachers so I've studied this thing inside out and yes, LoA teachers do claim that the brain's magnetic field is what attracts the things one desires. Many have preached that human thoughts affect all physical things and so forth, therefore it seems that you haven't studied this thing in depth. Heck, the claim that the brain emits vibrational frequency that affects physical matter, thereby attracting what one desired when thought is focused...is one of the main claims of LOA charlatans.

Thanks
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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

Hi Young Financier. Thanks for responding. I'm not questioning your beliefs. The problem with your post is that the articles you posted do not prove anything about LoA. The logic error is in suggesting that the articles are referring to the actual concepts of Law of attraction.

Your version of LoA, the one you are criticizing, comes from the New Age community. That is not LoA.

Thoughts are the driving force in a person's life. But, thoughts do not attract physical objects. I've stated this several times in previous posts. Yes, the New Age community does teach that thoughts magnetically attract objects. But that is not how things work.

Just for the record, I don't disagree with you. Some people do believe the things you posted about. But, the missing piece to this puzzle is that "law of attraction" as a concept has been re-purposed by several groups of people.

I don't blame you for not believing in those things. I don't either. That's why I posted my response. The things those articles were talking about is not LoA. It is someone's version of LoA that is not consistent with reality.

Heck, the claim that the brain emits vibrational frequency that affects physical matter, thereby attracting what one desired when thought is focused...is one of the main claims of LOA charlatans.

Exactly. But, that is not real law of attraction. I have a question for you: Have you read Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill? Did you know that the principles he describes there are all about law of attraction? If you would like proof of that, get a copy of Law of Success or 21st Century Edition Law of Success (also by Napoleon Hill). That is his original work. Somewhere in chapter 2, you will see that he describes the concepts he teaches as Law of Attraction (the real version).

There is a real version. The version you describe isn't it. What I'm asking you to do is recognize the real version -- explore it, question it, debate it. The important thing is that you learn to separate the two versions. I highly recommend getting Law of Success. I have to warn you that it is 1400+ pages long and the projects it contains will take time to implement. But, when you are done with it and you have everything in place, you will have a completely different understanding of Law of Attraction.

Hopefully that makes sense. I don't have anything against you at all. I just wanted to set the record straight about what you posted.

Thanks

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kirbymarketingconcierge

12 years ago

thanks rbarnhart1 for your PM -

I was flattered, and respect your time and effort to reach out. You are a warrior!

like your term : law of attraction = Personal Development 2.0.

I was recently reading about the character traits of successful people.

the author (sorry but can recall the source), said the #1 trait was something you wouldn't expect.

he said it was Concentration

any Warriors want to weigh in???

Imagine, not LOA, but your extreme, focused energies on your goals, or what you have to do, or a spontaneous crisis you have to face.

Maybe LOA is that level on intensity, so much so, that when you see results (positive) you make the human inclination of seeing patterns
( evolutionary biology = humans are "pattern-seeking " creatures)

We therefore see a cause and effect! maybe it's external, maybe it's not. is it in our minds??? as self - fulfilling (as the YoungFinancier) has postulated?

I wish LOA had proof, but I feel ok knowing, unlike other mammals, we are blessed with this incredible tool, of focus, determination, and concentration

but the burden of "proof" is not on me, but on those who state it's true.

if I am coming across as crass and impolite, let me know.

I do feel at times, I'm an old, cranky man! where's the old fart smiley symbol???

[ 1 ] Thanks
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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

Hey Kirby. Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it.

Maybe LOA is that level on intensity, so much so, that when you see results (positive) you make the human inclination of seeing patterns
( evolutionary biology = humans are "pattern-seeking " creatures)

You nailed it. That's basically it in a nutshell.

There is so much to learn about how to use the brain. It is an amazing tool. When we harness the power of how the brain works, amazing things are possible.

As for proof, here is a small experiment you can try. One aspect of Law of Attraction says that you get what you give. Let's say that you would like it if more people smiled at you. Tomorrow, smile at every person you pass. Make eye contact, smile warmly. What will happen?

Count how many people smile back. Not all will, but if you do this consistently throughout your day, you should find most people will. Try it and see. If you would like to add another layer to it, make it a two day experiment. On day one, just smile at people you pass. On day two, before you leave home spend time imagining people smiling back at you. As you do, feel good about interacting with people in this way. Enjoy the process. Have fun with it. Turn it into a game. Perhaps you set a goal to get 20 people to smile back. If you reach 20, perhaps you'll celebrate with a Pumpkin Spice Chai Tea from Starbucks (or some other beverage of choice appropriate for the season).

Was there a difference between day 1 and day 2? Describe the difference. If you follow the instructions presented here (particular the parts about feeling good and enjoying the process), you should see some interesting results. For anyone who wants to try this, please post your results. It will be nice to see what your results are.

[ 1 ] Thanks

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Young Financier

12 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

thanks rbarnhart1 for your PM -

I was flattered, and respect your time and effort to reach out. You are a warrior!

like your term : law of attraction = Personal Development 2.0.

I was recently reading about the character traits of successful people.

the author (sorry but can recall the source), said the #1 trait was something you wouldn't expect.

he said it was Concentration

any Warriors want to weigh in???

Imagine, not LOA, but your extreme, focused energies on your goals, or what you have to do, or a spontaneous crisis you have to face.

Maybe LOA is that level on intensity, so much so, that when you see results (positive) you make the human inclination of seeing patterns
( evolutionary biology = humans are "pattern-seeking " creatures)

We therefore see a cause and effect! maybe it's external, maybe it's not. is it in our minds??? as self - fulfilling (as the YoungFinancier) has postulated?

I wish LOA had proof, but I feel ok knowing, unlike other mammals, we are blessed with this incredible tool, of focus, determination, and concentration

but the burden of "proof" is not on me, but on those who state it's true.

if I am coming across as crass and impolite, let me know.

I do feel at times, I'm an old, cranky man! where's the old fart smiley symbol???

Even Napoleon Hill has said that concentration is the one quality that all successful people share. Many mistakenly took that as meaning that he was talking about the LOA but he wasn't. In fact, only time I ever heard Napoleon Hill reference the LOA was in the self-confidence lesson of The Law of Success, but he described the LOA as a process through which people attract others of a similar thought pattern. He never said anything about "thoughts going out into the universe and physically manifesting your desires." Napoleon Hill's basic premise on how the mind works is that we can use our minds to tap into a source of knowledge (Infinite Intelligence) and seek guidance through concentration. Basic psychology.

[ 1 ] Thanks
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kirbymarketingconcierge 12 years ago

good stuff guys.

and to do small experiments is crucial. like a/b split tests

smile, and don't smile

were all marketers here.

and all marketing is for cause and effect, results, proof, and performance.

any george carlin fans here?

been watching his interview and life story

at the 2:50 mark appx. he speaks of "projection" - fascinating and ties in to LOA and PD 2.0!

Can you make your Talent (whatever it is), happen?

link :

George Carlin on why "It's important not to...
- Thanks
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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

Even Napoleon Hill has said that concentration is the one quality that all successful people share. Many mistakenly took that as meaning that he was talking about the LOA but he wasn't. In fact, only time I ever heard Napoleon Hill reference the LOA was in the self-confidence lesson of The Law of Success, but he described the LOA as a process through which people attract others of a similar thought pattern. He never said anything about "thoughts going out into the universe and physically manifesting your desires." Napoleon Hill's basic premise on how the mind works is that we can use our minds to tap into a source of knowledge (Infinite Intelligence) and seek guidance through concentration. Basic psychology.

Hi Young Financier. One thing that I want to be clear about is that I am not trying to prove you wrong. I am trying to prove that we are really on the same page, we are just letting semantics get in the way of it.

From what I can see, you are attached to a belief that "New Age LoA is the only LoA there is". My perception is different.

If you look at Law of Success in chapter 2, you will find a detailed discussion of law of attraction by Napoleon Hill:

"The subconscious mind may be likened to a magnet; when it has been vitalized and thoroughly saturated with any definite purpose, it has a decided tendency to attract all that is necessary for the fulfillment of that purpose."

This, obviously, is an analogy and not literal. According to the real version of law of attraction, what you attract is noticing events, circumstances, information, opportunities, and people that are related to what you want. That is what Hill is talking about. Everything we need is already available to us (it already exists).

Most people don't know that the ability to have what they want already exists. Nor do they know the path to getting it. People who properly harmonize with the principles of law of attraction become aware of these things and then take appropriate action.

You and I basically believe the same thing, except you are attached to the notion that LoA is a New Age concept. They have a version of it -- but that is not what is real in my world.

If we go back to Law of Success, a paragraph later, Hill goes on to say: "People, too, are subject to this same law of attraction." (taken from page 159 of 21st Century Edition Law of Success, published by Napoleon Hill Foundation). What does he mean by that? On one level, he means that people associate with like-minded people (and that is where psychology enters into this equation). He also means that law of attraction, as a concept is how we are connected to each other. If you understand chapter 1 of Law of Success, which is about creating mastermind groups, then you will see the connection with psychology.

The elements of psychology that are relevant to this are the principles of interacting with other people. But, what Hill teaches within Law of Success goes way beyond basic psychology. In fact, each of the 17 principles that he outlines in the book are all interconnected. The more of the principles you can combine in your daily life, the better results you get. That part of it doesn't have anything to do with psychology.

Here's the primary difference. You can not design your life with psychology. You can design your life with law of attraction, as described in Law of Success. You can call it psychology if you want to, but you will not find the principles that Hill teaches in any psychology book.

So, hopefully that makes sense. Again, my goal is to come to understanding. I don't want to convert you to my way of thinking. I just want to offer an opportunity to explore this concept in a new way. If you followed the conversation that I had with kirby, you'll see what I mean. You can significantly upgrade your thought process by properly understanding these ideas and concepts. It's real-world based, not New Age. I definitely understand your skepticism and that is okay.

If you are willing to open up to the possibility, then I would be honored to have a discussion about it with you. Have a blessed day.

Thanks
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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

good stuff guys.

and to do small experiments is crucial. like a/b split tests

smile, and don't smile

were all marketers here.

and all marketing is for cause and effect, results, proof, and performance.

any george carlin fans here?

been watching his interview and life story

at the 2:50 mark appx. he speaks of "projection" - fascinating and ties in to LOA and PD 2.0!

Can you make your Talent (whatever it is), happen?

Split testing -- yes, that's it exactly.Marketing is a great analogy for LoA. You see an outcome you want (a vision), you design a test for it, you put it into action. Then you notice certain things about the results, which prompts ideas and actions...and so on.

By the way, the George Carlin video was excellent. Notice what he said earlier in the video: "I was missing who I was". That is so important. Who you are and who you want to be is the critical difference between where you are now and where you want to be.

I also like the concept of projecting talent. Living who you are and enjoying the whole process. I never thought I'd find LoA in a George Carlin video, so that is really cool.

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Young Financier

12 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

Hi Young Financier. One thing that I want to be clear about is that I am not trying to prove you wrong. I am trying to prove that we are really on the same page, we are just letting semantics get in the way of it.

From what I can see, you are attached to a belief that "New Age LoA is the only LoA there is". My perception is different.

If you look at Law of Success in chapter 2, you will find a detailed discussion of law of attraction by Napoleon Hill:

"The subconscious mind may be likened to a magnet; when it has been vitalized and thoroughly saturated with any definite purpose, it has a decided tendency to attract all that is necessary for the fulfillment of that purpose."

This, obviously, is an analogy and not literal. According to the real version of law of attraction, what you attract is noticing events, circumstances, information, opportunities, and people that are related to what you want. That is what Hill is talking about. Everything we need is already available to us (it already exists).

Most people don't know that the ability to have what they want already exists. Nor do they know the path to getting it. People who properly harmonize with the principles of law of attraction become aware of these things and then take appropriate action.

You and I basically believe the same thing, except you are attached to the notion that LoA is a New Age concept. They have a version of it -- but that is not what is real in my world.

If we go back to Law of Success, a paragraph later, Hill goes on to say: "People, too, are subject to this same law of attraction." (taken from page 159 of 21st Century Edition Law of Success, published by Napoleon Hill Foundation). What does he mean by that? On one level, he means that people associate with like-minded people (and that is where psychology enters into this equation). He also means that law of attraction, as a concept is how we are connected to each other. If you understand chapter 1 of Law of Success, which is about creating mastermind groups, then you will see the connection with psychology.

The elements of psychology that are relevant to this are the principles of interacting with other people. But, what Hill teaches within Law of Success goes way beyond basic psychology. In fact, each of the 17 principles that he outlines in the book are all interconnected. The more of the principles you can combine in your daily life, the better results you get. That part of it doesn't have anything to do with psychology.

Here's the primary difference. You can not design your life with psychology. You can design your life with law of attraction, as described in Law of Success. You can call it psychology if you want to, but you will not find the principles that Hill teaches in any psychology book.

So, hopefully that makes sense. Again, my goal is to come to understanding. I don't want to convert you to my way of thinking. I just want to offer an opportunity to explore this concept in a new way. If you followed the conversation that I had with kirby, you'll see what I mean. You can significantly upgrade your thought process by properly understanding these ideas and concepts. It's real-world based, not New Age. I definitely understand your skepticism and that is okay.

If you are willing to open up to the possibility, then I would be honored to have a discussion about it with you. Have a blessed day.

Okay, so we are on the same page. What Hill meant is actually pretty common sense. Although he said the mind attracts things to us, he of course didn't mean it in the way that books like The Secret would have you believe. It goes back to the glass being half empty or half full. When a person is optimistic about things, they tend to see more opportunity all around them where the other person is simply blind to those very same opportunities. The same way that the pessimist will be nearly on the brink of dying from thirst and will run into the "half empty" glass of water and complain that it's not completely full...and end up dying. Whereas the optimist will be on the brink of dying from thirst and will run into that same glass and will realize that although it's not a full glass, if he quenches his thirst now, he can survive long enough to find more water.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 12 years ago

we probably have all heard "don't argue over semantics".

thats why I like to define terms 1st. and then have fun at work!

is LOA new age? what the crap is "new age" anyway! is there an "old age" way???

IMO - we are marketers here, and always looking for marketing lines. it's our Perception

to say it's a "law" is a marketing ploy and like a music Remix from old content, ideas, marketing books, etc..,

I can take the LOA and PD 2.0, and Common Sense and make a marketing headline that I invent.

Consistency
Repetition
Aspiration
Persistence

************************************************** ************************************************
(satire) look what I invented :
my acronym, my new age, self empowerment, new clickbank report, cutting edge WSO
called

the CRAP "system", "law", 'protocol", whatever... the Crap Hack

anybody want my new system and law let me know and I'll send you some CRAP
if your commited, and reach down with both hands and get CRAP, you'll have the smell of success!

satire : the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
************************************************** ************************************************** ******** ************************************************** *

maybe it's what each of us happens to Crystallize in our minds
from information we have and our own experience, that appears true to us,
that we can then project onto the world,
and receive enough positive feedback, so we can then assume it's "real", or accurate enough.

we have to be sold 1st, don't you think?

hope everyone has a great week!
and don't let anybody give you any crap, without pushing though your challenges
- Thanks
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rbarnhart1

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

Okay, so we are on the same page. What Hill meant is actually pretty common sense. Although he said the mind attracts things to us, he of course didn't mean it in the way that books like The Secret would have you believe. It goes back to the glass being half empty or half full. When a person is optimistic about things, they tend to see more opportunity all around them where the other person is simply blind to those very same opportunities. The same way that the pessimist will be nearly on the brink of dying from thirst and will run into the "half empty" glass of water and complain that it's not completely full...and end up dying. Whereas the optimist will be on the brink of dying from thirst and will run into that same glass and will realize that although it's not a full glass, if he quenches his thirst now, he can survive long enough to find more water.

Well said and thank you for the great example. I should point out that I've been saying all along that the New Age stuff (like "The Secret") is not the real and complete version of law of attraction. Now, there is some really good information to be found in The Secret (particularly the book version). And, I'll also point out that most of what you are referring to from that source is analogy rather than something to be taken literally. So, we have to take these things in context. Just because we don't agree with everything in the book, doesn't mean we can't pull out some valuable information.

Case in point, The Secret teaches a technique called "shifters", which a person sets up as a mental queue to shift from negative emotions to positive emotions. Nothing wrong with this. If you carry around negative emotions and want to shift away from them, this is a good technique. So, for example, perhaps you have someone in your life who you love very much. This person makes you happy every time you think about them. So, whenever you find yourself in a bad mood or thinking negative thoughts, you intentionally shift your thoughts to the person you love. Now, this may seem like common sense, but I guarantee you there are people who haven't thought of it before (to do this consciously on a daily basis with the intention to switch from negative to positive). So, this is valid and an example of why I read such things. The difference could very well be in why to read the book in the first place (which has to do with perception and intention -- which we can talk about later).

Basically, when I read a book like that, I sift out the New Age stuff and keep anything that I find to be valuable. You can find great information in many places, so it helps not to prejudge.

As a side note, let's go back to your example of "glass half empty" verses "glass half full". I love that example, because it opens up a nice little thought experiment. Remember earlier I posted about perception and how that affects so much in life? This is a great example. Because, in reality, the glass is actually 100% full (fifty percent liquid and fifty percent air).

So, as you can see, it is extremely important to keep an open mind, see things from multiple angles, and learn the lessons from that. Hopefully this helps and thank you for understanding.

Thanks

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Sangfroid 12 years ago

I do believe in the Law of Attraction. Prominent souls such as
Paramahansa Yogananda and Napoleon Hill have proclaimed:
"Thoughts are things."

We are what our thoughts are. Our thoughts eventually manifest
in our lives.

Affirmations are imprinting thoughts (positive!) in our brains, our
consciousness. I affirmed for a life companion every day for 6
months (per Yogananda's recommendation) and I found a great
wife, who I married 17 years ago. She was doing affirmations,
too!

Of course, we also have to be mindful of negative thoughts that
will also manifest in our life.
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kirbymarketingconcierge

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

The more appropriate way to describe the Law of Attraction is "self-fulfilling prophecy." There's nothing mystical,magical or even metaphysical about it...it's basic psychology.

I agree.

here's proof it is in our minds, not real, and actually hurts us :

According to neuroscientist Russell Poldrack, energy fields that are emitted from our brains are much too small to directly impact anything material or cause items, money, situations or other material things to manifest magically:

..these fields are minuscule…Plus, remember the inverse square law: the intensity of an energy wave radiating from a source is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from that source…The brain’s magnetic field of 10–15 teslas quickly dissipates from the skull and is promptly swamped by other magnetic sources, not to mention the earth’s magnetic field of 10–5 teslas, which overpowers it by 10 orders of magnitude!

The German study supports previous research out of London which showed that students who thought positively about their week got less accomplished during that week than the control group. It’s as if spending time thinking and fantasizing about positive things prohibits action which might otherwise have been taken during that time.
This wasted time could have potentially actually led to a positive outcome had the person not simply thought about the outcome.

then when (LOA) it dosen't work, it's the same response talking to an astrologer - It's your fault!

I have been dreaming of Jenifer Aniston for years (she is attached and having a baby)
it's my fault!???

Here :

In an article in Psychology Today entitled Positive Thinking Leads to Economic Decline, scientist Matthew Hutson describes the phenomenon of positive thinking being detrimental:

If you vividly picture a desired outcome (weight loss, a job offer), without also thinking in detail about what stands in your way, it’s a bit like you already have the prize, so you don’t strive so hard… all those vision boards that readers of The Secret have constructed—covered with magazine cut-outs of mansions and beach vacations and slim waists (but never world peace)—are likely to remain mere visions dancing in their heads.

source : http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/the-se...k-heres-proof/

update: I didn't want to state anything that was offensive and my opinion. then this comes out a few hours later.

in america - the rise of women and the feminine has muted the masculine a little bit IMO

As traditional roles have changed, today's men are more like their mothers than their fathers. No wonder DIY is dying out, says Martin Daubney

source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/think...-too-soft.html

as a man I am going to go out into the world, and tell people " I will think positively, and wait for something to happen " ????

maybe buddha was right - balance the masculine and the feminine

and, in this case it's action and listening, being bold and responded to others, making a game plan and following it and accepting the results, etc..,,

there is no law, nor proof that I can attract things passively

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Young Financier

12 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

I agree.

here's proof it is in our minds, not real, and actually hurts us :

According to neuroscientist Russell Poldrack, energy fields that are emitted from our brains are much too small to directly impact anything material or cause items, money, situations or other material things to manifest magically:

..these fields are minuscule...Plus, remember the inverse square law: the intensity of an energy wave radiating from a source is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from that source...The brain's magnetic field of 10-15 teslas quickly dissipates from the skull and is promptly swamped by other magnetic sources, not to mention the earth's magnetic field of 10-5 teslas, which overpowers it by 10 orders of magnitude!

The German study supports previous research out of London which showed that students who thought positively about their week got less accomplished during that week than the control group. It's as if spending time thinking and fantasizing about positive things prohibits action which might otherwise have been taken during that time.
This wasted time could have potentially actually led to a positive outcome had the person not simply thought about the outcome.

then when (LOA) it dosen't work, it's the same response talking to an astrologer - It's your fault!

I have been dreaming of Jenifer Aniston for years (she is attached and having a baby)
it's my fault!???

Here :

In an article in Psychology Today entitled Positive Thinking Leads to Economic Decline, scientist Matthew Hutson describes the phenomenon of positive thinking being detrimental:

If you vividly picture a desired outcome (weight loss, a job offer), without also thinking in detail about what stands in your way, it's a bit like you already have the prize, so you don't strive so hard... all those vision boards that readers of The Secret have constructed--covered with magazine cut-outs of mansions and beach vacations and slim waists (but never world peace)--are likely to remain mere visions dancing in their heads.

source : http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/the-se...k-heres-proof/

update: I didn't want to state anything that was offensive and my opinion. then this comes out a few hours later.

in america - the rise of women and the feminine has muted the masculine a little bit IMO

As traditional roles have changed, today's men are more like their mothers than their fathers. No wonder DIY is dying out, says Martin Daubney

source : DIY is in decline because today's men are too soft - Telegraph

as a man I am going to go out into the world, and tell people " I will think positively, and wait for something to happen " ????

maybe buddha was right - balance the masculine and the feminine

and, in this case it's action and listening, being bold and responded to others, making a game plan and following it and accepting the results, etc..,,

there is no law, nor proof that I can attract things passively

That is a great article, so much so that I had to comment. My comment went about as follows:

The mind has a way of manifesting those things on which it focuses, but I believe that that has more to do with the way one views the world as a result of their beliefs as opposed to there being some law at work. The classic example of this is the half full/half empty exercise. The person with a pessimistic view will see the glass as half empty while the optimist will see the opposite. Even further, take these same two people and drop a $100 bill on the ground and the optimist will see the opportunity and pick up the money while the pessimist will be doubtful and grumpy and will as a result miss the opportunity. When viewed in this manner, you realize that it's all about beliefs.

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Roy Cohen

12 years ago

The law of attraction is a sub-law. The primary law is called the law of vibration. The law of vibration states that every thing is energy and everything vibrates.

It is not a "does it work thing." It is there if we want it or not. It is a law of the universe, a law of science, and a law of theology.

Your thoughts are vibrations. Things and events are also vibrations. When you think a thought, you send out a frequency and energy always returns to its original source. Meaning, the thought you think literally, like a magnet, returns to you. Think positive and attract positive things and circumstances. Think negative, well you guessed it... you get negative garbage in your life.

Focus on something specific that you want, and again, like a boomerang it comes right back to you.

To use this to your advantage think about the things you want and make this a habit. Your life will change completely.

To your unlimited success,

Roy Cohen

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tobyjensen

12 years ago

One of the major reasons LOA does not work for people is because their beliefs get in the way of it. LOA is to trust that things will work out (oversimplified since the definition and how to recognize has already been well covered in detail).

But what do you do when you can’t trust?

What do you do when you can’t let go?

I put what works into two categories to start with. There are really four with fifteen sub-combinations but that is just too much to start with.

The two categories are your personal preferences – what works for you because of your personality and beliefs. And what works across the board for everyone.

Included in our personal preferences is the placebo effect. Incredibly powerful and highly adaptable it can change lives overnight. Once we step into the realm of reproducible results on demand - what works tightens up very quickly. The example I use to get us started is only forgiveness cures anger. It works across the board and it works equally well for anyone that does it. Can every single person on the planet do it? No, I think there are currently seventeen people out of around seven billion people that simple are not capable of forgiving – everyone else is a go. (Ha, I just exaggerate the numbers to make a point.)

The point is this. If you are capable of getting angry then you are capable of forgiving.

Now let me tie that back into what works in personal development. Back to the two categories again. Specifically the personal preference category. There are as many different ways to become successful as there are occupations and professions to earn money. One of the reasons that personal development for us Mind Warriors can be so complicated is having to sort out what style of success will work for your personality. There are many different things to do that will work.

Notice that everyone has to do something though. That is across the board in the second category. Nobody can achieve success without having to do something. And we all know this here as well. Nothing new, just connecting action to being a one thing that everyone has to do. Now, what everyone has to do goes back to being incredibly different until you pick a profession. Let us just say a doctor to make it simple. (ha! Like being a doctor is so simple. lols) Anybody who wants to be a medical doctor has to go to school. Medical school is A LOT of action including a ton of passive action in studying.

Do you see how this is narrowing down?

Now with studying there are only a few different ways to go about it. Pick one that will actually work for you and get after it. But what if the different ways of studying simply do not work? Ah, ha! That is where I come in with the method I developed called Gutap. Feel free to google me if you want.

What do you do when what is supposed to be working simply doesn’t?

This is where we get into beliefs – specifically false beliefs or even just limiting beliefs. Our programming is off. And that is what I developed after twenty-five years of research and development. One system to be able to change any belief all the way to our core that works on anybody. (anybody being you have the mental capacity to be aware with cognitive abilities.)

Here are the three steps to Gutap in a nutshell:
1) Feel the feeling of our limiting belief.
2) Find what the positive answer is that it actually wants us to know.
3) Connect the feeling of what it wants us to know and let the feeling of that answer flow into our limiting belief to change it.

That is as simply as I can put it.

Do you see how this method is used when we forgive? The forgiveness (feeling) flows into our anger (another feeling) to heal our anger.

Now to be fair there are over three hundred sublevels, tips, techniques, personal preferences, hints, and suggestions that also come into play in teaching how to deal with the highly personalized false beliefs that some people may have. And to be honest, a bit of the time with my clients the placebo effect kicks in and does it for them. Seriously, how many times have we just been told to “get off it” or “let it go” or take a walk or see it from their point of view to get us to forgive? Tons. Or, the opposite problem, is telling someone to forgive can simply just make that same person even more upset. Gutap is the same way. Sometimes people just want to argue and yell at me instead of seeing what works. I understand. Not everyone is willing or wanting to see progress and development. It can be incredibly scary.

In fact, forgiveness can even be taught as a life skill instead of healing our anger and it could just “accidentally” help us out. How many approaches, styles, methods, or whatever to get us to forgive are there? Tons. See how confusing this can be to figure out just one method to “cure” any limiting or false belief? It took me twenty-five years to do it.

Depending upon interest this thread there is also a simple “ice cream” exercise to demonstrate how it works. This exercise only takes a couple of minutes and can be completely private if needed. I often use this when sharing with people about how Gutap works and people like how simple, clean, and straight forward it is.

The other part of this is skills or the specific action that works. Being able to study that I mentioned earlier. You have healing and skills. Both are needed to one extent or another to achieve success and do what works. How much and to what extent is highly individualized – back to personal preference. Which is why I still enjoy all the different programs, methodologies, books, workshops, and videos that people put out. Different ways to do one thing or just many choices to choose from that can work for you depending on your preference.

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knyght 12 years ago

This thread itself is proof!

You "attracted" people to respond to your question and to give examples and "proofs".

LOA at work here for you.
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JagSEO

12 years ago

Mind Warriors are so deep. It's too deep my mind is in a numb mode, It's like the more you know the more you complicate things up.

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Joe Benjamin

12 years ago

L.O.A works.

True.

Now consider this if you desire truth:

L.O.A is the conjuring up of familiar spirits (i.e. demons)
to manifest in physical reality material possessions, love
relationships, even the appearance of emotional bliss
(love, peace, happiness, etc).

Thus, because we receive the things WE ask for, and
get them, we ASSUME it is of God, when in reality, it is
of the Devil to keep the spiritually blind from Truth.

What is Truth? (Pontius Pilate asked the same question)

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

So why are these familiar spirits manifesting your desires
into physical reality and how is it not OF God?

Because it leads you to believe you ARE God and need
for being *saved* deemed unnecessary.

If YOU believe you are your own God, you won't believe
you need to be saved from your in-born sin.

In fact, you were lead to believe you are 'sin-less' and with
out need of ANY God except yourself because of the nice
*stuff* in life you get when you ask for it.

Thus, auto-rejection of God's only begotten son, Jesus
Christ.

Why would familiar spirits go through so much trouble from
keeping you from the Truth?

All of this is designed to keep you distracted from discovering
Truth here on Earth just long enough so when you DO leave
this Earth upon physical death in DISBELIEF in God's Son -
Jesus Christ...

...you'll be dragged into hell for eternity with the very spirits
you've been "attracting" into your life on Earth.

Except, you'll get NONE of the pleasures you experienced
on Earth they so happily gave you in the Lake of Fire.

This is NOT a prison sentence.

It is ETERNITY.

The REAL Secret? (not that it is because it's been around
for 2,000 years)

Believe upon Jesus Christ alone.

"Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil,
and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should
believe and be saved." - Luke 8:12

I'm posting this thread in the appropriate thread.

God Bless,

Josef Benjamin

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svetod

12 years ago

Wow, thanks for that post and all the nice inputs, I haven't thought about it as LoA =, but I've always known that when you want something bad enough and think about it every day, it is possible and will happen.
So keep believing and attracting the door things to your life!

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azizuz

12 years ago

This thread has sooo much great info. You can make a product out of this thread alone.lol

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Matthew Trujillo

12 years ago

So many long answers here I'm going to keep it simple.

I think the "Law of Attraction" has been confused a lot here.

All the "Law of Attraction" is to me anyways, is programming your subconcious mind.

What you think so shall you become. If you think "i'm not good enough" "i'm a loser"

you know what you are telling your subconsious ? That you are a loser.

How you talk to yourself and the affirmations you use is what makes or breaks you.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 12 years ago

well said Matthew

I wish others would provide input.

62 replys, but 2400 lurking?

I'm in trouble if I just listen to me!

any more proof from LOA converts?
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rbarnhart1 12 years ago
Originally Posted by Matthew J Trujillo

So many long answers here I'm going to keep it simple.

Hi Matthew. I agree. Law of Attraction as a principle is actually very simple. The problem is that people are complex and they're all different. Different beliefs, different backgrounds, different world-views, different education levels, etc. Have you read Steven Covey's The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People?

If so, you are familiar with the thought experiment he reveals about the picture of the lady. That is how life is -- two people looking at the exact same thing will see two entirely different things. That is the inherent problem.

If it wasn't for that, we could just say: here's principle 1, 2, 3, and 4 and everyone would be like "okay, cool".

The other side of that is everyone has various issues they are dealing with and there usually isn't just one solution that works for everyone. So, you need multiple techniques, multiple concepts, etc.

Releasing negative energy or negative emotions is a huge part of the equation. But there are many ways to do this:
- EFT
- Sedona Method
- PSTECH
- Faster EFT
- Music Therapy
- Meditation
Which one works? They all do. The question is: which one works for you? One person may get better results with Music Therapy while someone else does great with EFT.

So, in a nutshell, that's why it can be confusing and why there so many parts and pieces.
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FlamingLaptopPress

12 years ago

In Novanetics I teach the million dollar method of Law of Attraction. YES, the LOA absolutely can work when utilized in one consistent, certain way. I am sitting in the office building, part of the $1.38 million I attracted in just under 24 hours (real estate).

Yes, yes, and yes, when used as directed the LOA will rock your world.
+Douglas

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sujatasharma

12 years ago

[DELETED]

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kirbymarketingconcierge 12 years ago

are we to take Credit (or blame) for the previous 2 reply's?

the law of attraction at work???
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George Flm

12 years ago

Try lucid dreaming alongside with cosmic hypnosis and you will be amazed by the results you can get. Fundamentally, you wake up within a dream, that is knowing that you're dreaming and try to manifest from that point. For i.e. I woke up into a dream I had and gave the subconscious a certain command about what I wanted to see within that dream.

Next thing I knew, was casting fuel to the fire and out of the sudden the whole environment changed based what I wanted to experience. When I finally woke up from the dream, I noticed that my reality panned out exactly how I wanted it to transpire.

Ever since, I consistently use the power of guided imagery to manifest reality and manipulate time using dreams. And you know what, I'm an outlaw when it boils down the Law of Attraction because I've messed up with the Universe itself, big time. I use hypnosis and dreams as an apparatus of what I want to happen. There are limits to this method but you're only encumbered by your imagination.

Imagination is the strongest force in the Universe. You can stimulate the mind to be used as a beacon that lights your way to start seeing lucid dreams and enlighten your reality. This won't happen by reading endless books non-stop but with guided imagery as I've mentioned it before. What you direly need is a guide who will get you there, and that could be either an experienced person or yourself if you know what you're doing.

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Joe Benjamin

12 years ago

You guys are playing on the Devils playground
and don't even know it...

...or maybe you do and that's your choice.

But for those who don't. If you want to be on
God's side, choose Jesus.

You want to play around with lucid dreaming,
hypnosis, meditation, chakras, law of attraction,
and all the other new age demonic junk...

...you're sealing your own eternal fate. You
have free will. So you choose.

Thanks
1 reply

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rbarnhart1 12 years ago

Hi Joe. I'm not sure if you read the previous posts, but I covered that misconception earlier.

You are correct. There is a group of people who definitely promote Law of Attraction and also are involved in things that Christians should stay away from. It is specifically those in the New Age movement (although many who follow that path are not aware of it's origins or that there is anything wrong with it).

But, just because that group of people uses Law of Attraction, doesn't make it wrong (their version is wrong -- it isn't what LoA is about).

Meditation is not demonic. However, some cultures and groups combine demonic rituals with meditation. That doesn't make mediation wrong.

Meditation is a function of the brain -- it is a form of thought. It can be used for good purposes or evil purposes.

Lucid dreaming is not demonic. I had lucid dreams as a child and was absolutely not involved in anything demonic and did not practice any form spiritism. It is a function of the brain - it happens with or without intention.

What if someone from the New Age movement used and promoted goal setting? Obviously, goal setting is not going to become something wrong.

The main thing is to think about things logically. If you are not involved with rituals and other things on that path, then you can't possibly be on that side. Christians definitely need to be careful so they don't get pulled in by those who are on the other side. But, if we don't think correctly, we can miss some important ideas and concepts.

Let me provide an example. Here is a real principle of Law of Attraction: Time is an illusion. There is no time except Now. Every other aspect of time is a perception. You can't do anything yesterday. You can't do anything tomorrow. You can only do something now. A critical principle is to learn to be aware in the current moment and to live consistently in the moment of Now.

As you can see, there is nothing demonic in that. It is simply a principle. Obviously there is much more to this principle than what I can cover here, but that is an example of Law of Attraction is about. Learning correct thinking principles and skills.

Hopefully that makes sense. I'd be glad to discuss further. Your concern is legitimate, but let's separate the myths from reality. Have a blessed evening.
- Thanks
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JenniferGiacoppo

11 years ago

It's funny because people think that the Law of Attraction was invented recently when in fact it has been around as long as the law of gravity. The way in which I know it exits is because I get what ever I think about, it is figuring out how you feel about it . To put it simply if you want or desire something and just enjoy thinking about it for pleasure it will in time show up. Monitoring more how good you feel is key>

Thanks

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