41 replies
As I read thru many of these posts I am noticing, what I consider, to be a disturbing trend.

There seem to be a large number of people jumping on the Mobile Bandwagon...signing up as reseller of a reseller who sold a WSO or whatever and running out to sell mobile without having any idea what they are doing...and it is evident in the questions that are being asked.

Don't get me wrong, asking questions is good, but...

The problem, as I see it, is as follows:

"We are supposed to be experts in our field. I can run out and Buy a stethoscope and a lab jacket but that doesn't mean the public is going to pay me to perform life saving...or threatening surgery.

Having access to a Mobile Platform does NOT make us experts.

We are essentially, holding the life of these Small Businesses in our hand. If we dont know what we are doing, we can do more damage than good. Not only to our Clients but to the Industry as a whole."


Buying access to a Mobile Resellers Platform is all find and dandy, but don't go off half cocked before you have been educated and trained to properly sell the product.

Too many of these Mobile Marketing Companies are too quick to sell access to their platform to anyone with the spare cash to pay for it and they are doing nothing more than hurting small businesses and the industry on the whole as a result.

I am all for self employment and the freedom it can bring, but one needs to crawl, then walk, and THEN Run. Without proper training you are simply going to do more damage than good.

Whats your take?
#expert
  • Profile picture of the author M Stacks
    Great post.

    It's awesome that so many people want to take their financial future into their own hands and create a business.

    But like anything else worthwhile, it takes some effort. And if you do it right, you can build a lasting, rewarding business, that makes everyone's lives a little bit better.

    I now you are speaking more about text marketing, but our business is mostly focused on web apps at the moment, and I see the same thing there.

    The quick rush to make a buck without regard for quality or if the businesses needs are being met, is hurting the whole game.

    And every day I shake my head at how much money I see being left on the table by these guys who whip up some half-baked solution and grab a few hundred bucks and run...
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by M Stacks View Post

      Great post.

      It's awesome that so many people want to take their financial future into their own hands and create a business.

      But like anything else worthwhile, it takes some effort. And if you do it right, you can build a lasting, rewarding business, that makes everyone's lives a little bit better.

      I now you are speaking more about text marketing, but our business is mostly focused on web apps at the moment, and I see the same thing there.

      The quick rush to make a buck without regard for quality or if the businesses needs are being met, is hurting the whole game.

      And every day I shake my head at how much money I see being left on the table by these guys who whip up some half-baked solution and grab a few hundred bucks and run...
      Thank You for your comment and your "Thanks"! Surprisingly you are the only one to agree out of 60+ views of this thread which, in my opinion, shows how dire the problem really is.

      While we don't stress Apps as a solution in our business model they are still very much part of the "Mobile Solution" and as such, are definitely included in the intent of this post.
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  • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
    great point, one I have been looking to make firmer many times previous.

    Thing is while on these forums you get people starting threads with some pie in the sky figures , others follow them gullible or whatever and believe they too can acheive these figures (when theres no proof the OP of those threads has even achieved it!) , we get people wanting to sell their WSOs or courses or whatever pretending you dont need to know jack to go out there and do the job, true you dont if you wanna be seen as a useless moron and sit there like a loser when some business owner asks a simple question that hasnt been covered in your training manual, these people dont care, theyve sold you their course, you can go screw yourself now , thanks for your $$$$.

    People have to realise we are dealing with peoples businesses, real businesses not some messed up landing page thrown together in 15 minutes or less selling someone elses product, a real business thats been running maybe 20+ years and some retard is gonna come along and BS their way through a meeting and potentially screw this business up .

    IMO you need to be great at business and marketing , the technical side is irrelevant , thats outsourcable with care, the business and marketing knowledge, certainly at face to face meetings, cant be outsourced, it has to come from inside you, not some two bit training manual you read 2 days ago.

    You're right, some questions make me shudder , some points that are eulogised over make me cringe, bleeding obvious springs to mind, yet theres 20 replies that suggest its more amazing than the parting of the Red Sea (admittedly some appear to be from thier friends) and we're going out tomorrow to get the business (even tho we dont know much) .
    Do you think thats what separates the $27 crew from the $1000+ group.
    <Strokes chin to ponder that question as per James Caan
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      great point, one I have been looking to make firmer many times previous.

      Thing is while on these forums you get people starting threads with some pie in the sky figures , others follow them gullible or whatever and believe they too can acheive these figures (when theres no proof the OP of those threads has even achieved it!) , we get people wanting to sell their WSOs or courses or whatever pretending you dont need to know jack to go out there and do the job, true you dont if you wanna be seen as a useless moron and sit there like a loser when some business owner asks a simple question that hasnt been covered in your training manual, these people dont care, theyve sold you their course, you can go screw yourself now , thanks for your $$$$.

      People have to realise we are dealing with peoples businesses, real businesses not some messed up landing page thrown together in 15 minutes or less selling someone elses product, a real business thats been running maybe 20+ years and some retard is gonna come along and BS their way through a meeting and potentially screw this business up .

      IMO you need to be great at business and marketing , the technical side is irrelevant , thats outsourcable with care, the business and marketing knowledge, certainly at face to face meetings, cant be outsourced, it has to come from inside you, not some two bit training manual you read 2 days ago.

      You're right, some questions make me shudder , some points that are eulogised over make me cringe, bleeding obvious springs to mind, yet theres 20 replies that suggest its more amazing than the parting of the Red Sea (admittedly some appear to be from thier friends) and we're going out tomorrow to get the business (even tho we dont know much) .
      Do you think thats what separates the $27 crew from the $1000+ group.
      <Strokes chin to ponder that question as per James Caan
      As they say, "Those who can, DO...those who can't, TEACH" (Think WSO)

      This thread has been viewed almost 70 times yet only 2 people have commented. conversely, if I was to post a thread claiming to have made One Million in the last 15 minutes with my Super Secret Magic Button there would have been hundreds of posts! lol
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      • Profile picture of the author Morphius
        [QUOTE=HypeText;5328968]As they say, "Those who can, DO...those who can't, TEACH" (Think WSO)

        This statement is soooooooooooo true. These WSO are mainly garbage. I was a victim of buying many of them. No more. If the person knows what he is doing, he won't teach you. I don't teach SEO, I am too busy running my business.
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    • Profile picture of the author M Stacks
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post


      People have to realise we are dealing with peoples businesses, real businesses not some messed up landing page thrown together in 15 minutes or less selling someone elses product, a real business thats been running maybe 20+ years and some retard is gonna come along and BS their way through a meeting and potentially screw this business up .
      Anyone getting into this business should read this, and not just read it, but "get it".

      Businesses need real solutions. They don't need someone who has neither the knowledge nor the skill to help them coming in and taking their money and leaving them with something that doesn't fill their needs.

      Take the time to gain the knowledge and learn the skills you need to provide true solutions and actual value to your clients. Do this and not only will you help them succeed, you'll create a lasting, profitable business for yourself and you'll build a great reputation too!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Moreno
    I agree with everything being said - am actually shocked at the amount of disregard i have seen for mobile best practices and validation when it comes to building mobile websites. I don't expect every site to get 100% but getting less than 65% and even a big fat zero is simply not acceptable as far as i am concerned. I would personally suggest you aim upwards of 85% and its not impossible to do with a little extra care, attention and understanding of what you are doing.

    Likewise with what MStarks was saying with regards to the devaluation of what they are worth by offering them for free and just charging for hosting... i know that's something we would never do. Perhaps free webhosting but certainly not the other way around.

    I understand the need to make money but providing a mickey mouse service to clients to simply make a quick dollar is short sighted and shows you really don't care about your customers or your own reputation. I think in a lot of instances newcomers into this niche more often than not dont know or understand the difference between a well developed mobile site and a poor or badly generated one...

    It certainly doesnt help when certain serial wso'ers don't fully provide or disclose the right information in the first place thats supposed to help people in this field...

    This to me simply shows me that they simply do not know what they are talking about and are just knocking this stuff out to take advantage of the popularity of mobile - not just that it's also made me lose a lot of respect for them too... again right now for many newcomers its difficult for them to even understand whats good or bad and in a lot of cases also blinded with the concept of quick money...

    Am just thankful for people like Willr and Quinten that actually take the time to go outside of their own WSO's and post relevant and helpful information to better help people understand about mobile.

    I wish everyone in this great mobile marketing arena the best of luck for the new years... although i think some will need it more than others!

    PS Just to clarify lol our WSO is providing a useful tool - we are not providing a solution to make $1,000,000 in the next 15 minutes lol if i was making that amount of money in 15 minutes i would be

    a) too busy spending money to create a WSO
    b) completely nuts to tell everyone about my method!

    Again unlike most WSO'ers some of us are actual brick and mortar incorporated businesses offering solutions not based on a whats popular this week basis or looking at a view to make quick dollars...
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by Jay Moreno View Post

      I agree with everything being said - am actually shocked at the amount of disregard i have seen for mobile best practices and validation when it comes to building mobile websites. I don't expect every site to get 100% but getting less than 65% and even a big fat zero is simply not acceptable as far as i am concerned. I would personally suggest you aim upwards of 85% and its not impossible to do with a little extra care, attention and understanding of what you are doing.

      Likewise with what MStarks was saying with regards to the devaluation of what they are worth by offering them for free and just charging for hosting... i know that's something we would never do. Perhaps free webhosting but certainly not the other way around.

      I understand the need to make money but providing a mickey mouse service to clients to simply make a quick dollar is short sighted and shows you really don't care about your customers or your own reputation. I think in a lot of instances newcomers into this niche more often than not dont know or understand the difference between a well developed mobile site and a poor or badly generated one...

      It certainly doesnt help when certain serial wso'ers don't fully provide or disclose the right information in the first place thats supposed to help people in this field...

      This to me simply shows me that they simply do not know what they are talking about and are just knocking this stuff out to take advantage of the popularity of mobile - not just that it's also made me lose a lot of respect for them too... again right now for many newcomers its difficult for them to even understand whats good or bad and in a lot of cases also blinded with the concept of quick money...

      Am just thankful for people like Willr and Quinten that actually take the time to go outside of their own WSO's and post relevant and helpful information to better help people understand about mobile.

      I wish everyone in this great mobile marketing arena the best of luck for the new years... although i think some will need it more than others!

      PS Just to clarify lol our WSO is providing a useful tool - we are not providing a solution to make $1,000,000 in the next 15 minutes lol if i was making that amount of money in 15 minutes i would be

      a) too busy spending money to create a WSO
      b) completely nuts to tell everyone about my method!

      Again unlike most WSO'ers some of us are actual brick and mortar incorporated businesses offering solutions not based on a whats popular this week basis or looking at a view to make quick dollars...
      Jay, You make some valid points as well. Thanks for the Input!
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
        Originally Posted by HypeText View Post


        "We are supposed to be experts in our field. I can run out and Buy a stethoscope and a lab jacket but that doesn't mean the public is going to pay me to perform life saving...or threatening surgery.

        Having access to a Mobile Platform does NOT make us experts.

        We are essentially, holding the life of these Small Businesses in our hand. If we dont know what we are doing, we can do more damage than good. Not only to our Clients but to the Industry as a whole."


        Buying access to a Mobile Resellers Platform is all find and dandy, but don't go off half cocked before you have been educated and trained to properly sell the product.


        I am all for self employment and the freedom it can bring, but one needs to crawl, then walk, and THEN Run. Without proper training you are simply going to do more damage than good.
        I agree. Your argument is sound but I do have some counter points to make.

        Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

        As they say, "Those who can, DO...those who can't, TEACH" (Think WSO)
        I don't agree.

        I'm not accusing you but there seems to be an undercurrent of hostility aimed towards teachers (at least in the U.S.).

        In my former career "teachers" were an integral part of the learning process.

        I haven't purchased many WSO's (three, I think) but they've all been helpful. The last one I purchased (Bob Ross) gives good actionable information.

        Are all WSO's good??? Probably not but I wouldn't make a sweeping statement relegating them to the trash bin.


        Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

        This thread has been viewed almost 70 times yet only 2 people have commented. conversely, if I was to post a thread claiming to have made One Million in the last 15 minutes with my Super Secret Magic Button there would have been hundreds of posts! lol
        Why do you assume viewers who haven't posted disagree with you?

        That's not logical.

        I know the "hundreds of posts" comment was said with "tongue firmly planted in cheek" but take a look at the threads and replies within this topic. How many get over 100?




        Originally Posted by M Stacks View Post

        Great post.
        And every day I shake my head at how much money I see being left on the table by these guys who whip up some half-baked solution and grab a few hundred bucks and run...
        Truth. A lot of money is left on the table. All you can do is try to educate. With some it will take, for others it won't.

        At the end of the day it leaves more opportunity for you.




        Originally Posted by Jay Moreno View Post

        Likewise with what MStarks was saying with regards to the devaluation of what they are worth by offering them for free and just charging for hosting... i know that's something we would never do. Perhaps free webhosting but certainly not the other way around.
        I don't think I'd give a mobile site away for free but if it works it works. Just because its a method you don't like or endorse doesn't mean it's not a. effective or b. profitable.

        The printer industry follows a similar model. Sell printers at "rock bottom" prices and make money on the ink. Or how about Colombia House and the five free CD model.

        Remember that? Get five free CD's as long as you but a set number at list price.

        Might not be your model or mine for that matter but at the end of the day "black ink" determines its success or failure.



        Originally Posted by Jay Moreno View Post

        Again unlike most WSO'ers some of us are actual brick and mortar incorporated businesses offering solutions not based on a whats popular this week basis or looking at a view to make quick dollars...
        You say that as if all incorporated brick and mortar businesses are run by people hand picked by Mother Theresa.

        There's plenty of back stabbing, double dealing, and dirty deeds in general perpetuated by incorporated brick and mortar businesses.

        WSO sellers do not have the scam market cornered. In fact they're pretty small fish in a big sea of ill gotten gains.

        And don't make the mistake of thinking you can't run a business based on what's popular. Jay, I'm sure you know popularity ebbs and flows. Those companies that can spot upswings in consumer taste tend to make tremendous profits.

        Remember when horse shampoo for human hair was the rage. I knew a distributor who "cleaned up" (no pun intended) by spotting that trend early and jumping in with both feet.

        How 'bout Razor scooters, Hello Kitty, Pickachu, Manga, etc. These were all trends that made those who could see the up swing very rich.

        I think at times we get blinded to the bigger world. You do so at the expense of possibly missing out on a great opportunity.

        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        As I said earlier I agree with the general zeitgeist of this thread. It's all about helping your clients achieve their goals. If you do that, they'll help you achieve yours.

        @HypeText

        Thanks for starting this thread. There's nothing like a healthy discussion to get the juices flowing.

        Kevin
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        • Profile picture of the author HypeText
          Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap View Post

          I agree. Your argument is sound but I do have some counter points to make.



          I don't agree.

          I'm not accusing you but there seems to be an undercurrent of hostility aimed towards teachers (at least in the U.S.).

          In my former career "teachers" were an integral part of the learning process.

          I haven't purchased many WSO's (three, I think) but they've all been helpful. The last one I purchased (Bob Ross) gives good actionable information.

          Are all WSO's good??? Probably not but I wouldn't make a sweeping statement relegating them to the trash bin.




          Why do you assume viewers who haven't posted disagree with you?

          That's not logical.

          I know the "hundreds of posts" comment was said with "tongue firmly planted in cheek" but take a look at the threads and replies within this topic. How many get over 100?






          Truth. A lot of money is left on the table. All you can do is try to educate. With some it will take, for others it won't.

          At the end of the day it leaves more opportunity for you.






          I don't think I'd give a mobile site away for free but if it works it works. Just because its a method you don't like or endorse doesn't mean it's not a. effective or b. profitable.

          The printer industry follows a similar model. Sell printers at "rock bottom" prices and make money on the ink. Or how about Colombia House and the five free CD model.

          Remember that? Get five free CD's as long as you but a set number at list price.

          Might not be your model or mine for that matter but at the end of the day "black ink" determines its success or failure.





          You say that as if all incorporated brick and mortar businesses are run by people hand picked by Mother Theresa.

          There's plenty of back stabbing, double dealing, and dirty deeds in general perpetuated by incorporated brick and mortar businesses.

          WSO sellers do not have the scam market cornered. In fact they're pretty small fish in a big sea of ill gotten gains.

          And don't make the mistake of thinking you can't run a business based on what's popular. Jay, I'm sure you know popularity ebbs and flows. Those companies that can spot upswings in consumer taste tend to make tremendous profits.

          Remember when horse shampoo for human hair was the rage. I knew a distributor who "cleaned up" (no pun intended) by spotting that trend early and jumping in with both feet.

          How 'bout Razor scooters, Hello Kitty, Pickachu, Manga, etc. These were all trends that made those who could see the up swing very rich.

          I think at times we get blinded to the bigger world. You do so at the expense of possibly missing out on a great opportunity.

          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          As I said earlier I agree with the general zeitgeist of this thread. It's all about helping your clients achieve their goals. If you do that, they'll help you achieve yours.

          @HypeText

          Thanks for starting this thread. There's nothing like a healthy discussion to get the juices flowing.

          Kevin
          Kevin, I totally agree on the importance of Teachers.

          So long as they are qualified to be teachers! To me, there is NOTHING more destructive than a self proclaimed expert "teaching" a newbie the WRONG way to do something or providing them with incorrect information.

          I don't buy WSO's but apparently many do...without knowledge of who wrote them or what that persons level of experience is.

          Many will jump on the thread singing praises or pumping up excitement. How many of us can say for sure those accolades are accurate...or even legitimate?

          While some may well be written with people with expertise I would venture to guess many are not.

          That was the point of my post.
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          • Profile picture of the author bryson
            Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

            Kevin, I totally agree on the importance of Teachers.

            So long as they are qualified to be teachers! To me, there is NOTHING more destructive than a self proclaimed expert "teaching" a newbie the WRONG way to do something or providing them with incorrect information.

            I don't buy WSO's but apparently many do...without knowledge of who wrote them or what that persons level of experience is.

            Many will jump on the thread singing praises or pumping up excitement. How many of us can say for sure those accolades are accurate...or even legitimate?

            While some may well be written with people with expertise I would venture to guess many are not.

            That was the point of my post.
            I don't buy WSO's either. Maybe I would if I knew without a shadow of a doubt the WSO was written from real experience.

            Just about anyone and his monkey can write a WSO. All it takes is a few days creeping the forum, google, yahoo answers for the latest hot topic, record all the related questions then search for the answers and whammo - the next best selling WSO.

            I don't know everything, but that is not going stop me from pushing forward in a new area like mobile/SMS. I will most likely make mistakes and in some cases I may leave money on the table. I don't believe in giving something away free to get in the door (not anymore, as that is a mistake). I read and learn as much as I can from as many sources as I can but I also take action as soon as I can. My theory is if you just learn, learn, learn as a way to get it perfect, you will never get started.
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    • Profile picture of the author M Stacks
      Originally Posted by Jay Moreno View Post

      I agree with everything being said - am actually shocked at the amount of disregard i have seen for mobile best practices and validation when it comes to building mobile websites. I don't expect every site to get 100% but getting less than 65% and even a big fat zero is simply not acceptable as far as i am concerned. I would personally suggest you aim upwards of 85% and its not impossible to do with a little extra care, attention and understanding of what you are doing.

      Likewise with what MStarks was saying with regards to the devaluation of what they are worth by offering them for free and just charging for hosting... i know that's something we would never do. Perhaps free webhosting but certainly not the other way around.

      I understand the need to make money but providing a mickey mouse service to clients to simply make a quick dollar is short sighted and shows you really don't care about your customers or your own reputation. I think in a lot of instances newcomers into this niche more often than not dont know or understand the difference between a well developed mobile site and a poor or badly generated one...
      I was beginning to think I was alone in that thinking here...

      It amazes me, too, that no one seems to care about the quality of the product they are pushing, or if it actually provides any real value to their clients.

      There is someone here selling an "instant mobile site builder" and in their sales video, they have screenshots of the really horrible code this thing generates, like they are proud of it!

      Call me crazy, but I'll take the extra time to create a custom solution for each client, with clean and valid code.

      But then again, since we can earn quite a bit more per sale than a few hundred dollars, maybe it's not so crazy...
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  • Profile picture of the author philboy uk
    I imagine that most of the reseller programs offer low cost solutions to businesses that just want a mobile website.

    There are businesses that will pay lots of money for a mobile website, and hopefully they will get a good return for their investment, and there are businesses that are looking to spend the least possible, and they will get what they pay for.

    I am not sure how you can compare life saving surgery to having your website built optimised for a mobile device.

    Most of the businesses in my area have not claimed their google place listing, do not have a mobile website, if they have a facebook page.. it is a complete waste of time, they have not claimed local directory listings, there is no evidence of optimisation on their website, if they are doing google adwords, they just send visitors to the home page, they would not have a clue what google plus is, they do not capture visitors details, have very few online reviews. etc , etc,

    I would say the quality of their mobile website is not their overiding priority

    are you really holding the lifeblood of these businesses in your hands, or trying to give their mobile users a better online experience.

    People jumping on the bandwagon and providing less than adequate services has gone on in every industry since the dawn of time, you are talking as though this is a new phonomenum , confined to the mobile industry.

    Do you have data to back up your argument that businesses are being damaged by these rogue mobile website builders, can you give specific examples, or is it just your personal gut feeling ?





    Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

    As I read thru many of these posts I am noticing, what I consider, to be a disturbing trend.

    There seem to be a large number of people jumping on the Mobile Bandwagon...signing up as reseller of a reseller who sold a WSO or whatever and running out to sell mobile without having any idea what they are doing...and it is evident in the questions that are being asked.

    Don't get me wrong, asking questions is good, but...

    The problem, as I see it, is as follows:

    "We are supposed to be experts in our field. I can run out and Buy a stethoscope and a lab jacket but that doesn't mean the public is going to pay me to perform life saving...or threatening surgery.

    Having access to a Mobile Platform does NOT make us experts.

    We are essentially, holding the life of these Small Businesses in our hand. If we dont know what we are doing, we can do more damage than good. Not only to our Clients but to the Industry as a whole."


    Buying access to a Mobile Resellers Platform is all find and dandy, but don't go off half cocked before you have been educated and trained to properly sell the product.

    Too many of these Mobile Marketing Companies are too quick to sell access to their platform to anyone with the spare cash to pay for it and they are doing nothing more than hurting small businesses and the industry on the whole as a result.

    I am all for self employment and the freedom it can bring, but one needs to crawl, then walk, and THEN Run. Without proper training you are simply going to do more damage than good.

    Whats your take?
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by philboy uk View Post

      I imagine that most of the reseller programs offer low cost solutions to businesses that just want a mobile website.

      There are businesses that will pay lots of money for a mobile website, and hopefully they will get a good return for their investment, and there are businesses that are looking to spend the least possible, and they will get what they pay for.

      I am not sure how you can compare life saving surgery to having your website built optimised for a mobile device.

      Most of the businesses in my area have not claimed their google place listing, do not have a mobile website, if they have a facebook page.. it is a complete waste of time, they have not claimed local directory listings, there is no evidence of optimisation on their website, if they are doing google adwords, they just send visitors to the home page, they would not have a clue what google plus is, they do not capture visitors details, have very few online reviews. etc , etc,

      I would say the quality of their mobile website is not their overiding priority

      are you really holding the lifeblood of these businesses in your hands, or trying to give their mobile users a better online experience.

      People jumping on the bandwagon and providing less than adequate services has gone on in every industry since the dawn of time, you are talking as though this is a new phonomenum , confined to the mobile industry.
      Philboy, Thank You for posting and proving my point!

      Mobile is much more than just a Mobile Website. It is a, and sometimes part of a, Marketing Strategy.

      There is mobile couponing, there are mobile display ads, there are various sms based marketing tools, there is also mobile websites, QR Codes, Short Codes, etc..

      Like a person, a business has a distinct personality and interacts with others in varying ways.

      For you to ask how a mobile marketer can be holding a businesses life in his/her hands and to ask how I can compare that to a surgeon reeks of inexperience.

      Just as "Medical Malpractice" can cost a patient his or her life, so can "Marketing Malpractice" cost a business it's very existence.

      Mobile is also integrated into a businesses existing marketing strategy, whether it be TV, Radio, Print, Billboards etc. It becomes part of that businesses image and personality.

      Please get familiar with what Mobile Marketing is and the Tenets of Marketing in general... as well as how a badly done marketing campaign can destroy a business before making additional posts on this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author philboy uk
    Because I dont agree with everything you say, I cannot post on the thread and need to learn more about marketing , I see.

    I would be interested to know, do you have any kind of public liablity insurance ?, and if your clients ask legal questions, do you answer them, or advise to seek legal advice. I thought I would bring this up as you mentioned marketing malpractice.
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by philboy uk View Post

      Because I dont agree with everything you say, I cannot post on the thread and need to learn more about marketing , I see.

      I would be interested to know, do you have any kind of public liablity insurance ?, and if your clients ask legal questions, do you answer them, or advise to seek legal advice. I thought I would bring this up as you mentioned marketing malpractice.
      We have our clients sign an Attorney Prepared Service Agreement that includes an Indemnity Clause for our protection. Since we don't offer legal services we don't answer legal questions, if they ask legal questions we tell them to consult an attorney.

      You have a right to disagree, but if you are going to disagree regarding something you don't understand it becomes counter productive.

      "Marketing Malpractice" was a term I coined for the purpose of analogy since you didn't think marketing could affect the well being a business. I used it for the purpose of analogy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sue Bruce
      Anyone remember when website sales went in the same direction mobile is going? The websites were very bad. The seller did not care if the owner ever made money from them. There was no SEO.

      Then we had to clean up the messes made by these guys and convince owners that a website CAN increase business and is not just another losing proposition.

      So, those people who took the money and ran without working on a marketing strategy with the owner didn't create a sustaining business and are now jumping on the mobile bandwagon.

      There was a post the other day from someone who made a mobile sale and wanted to know what to do next. The OP asked him if he made the sale before researching white label resellers or anything else.

      Of course he did and this is history repeating itself.

      Part of the answer may be to educate those people that if you keep jumping on the latest fad you'll be in a rocking chair in a few short years still "looking". If you build a business that retains customers and grows you may be able to retire someday.
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      • Profile picture of the author HypeText
        Originally Posted by Sue Bruce View Post

        Anyone remember when website sales went in the same direction mobile is going? The websites were very bad. The seller did not care if the owner ever made money from them. There was no SEO.

        Then we had to clean up the messes made by these guys and convince owners that a website CAN increase business and is not just another losing proposition.

        So, those people who took the money and ran without working on a marketing strategy with the owner didn't create a sustaining business and are now jumping on the mobile bandwagon.

        There was a post the other day from someone who made a mobile sale and wanted to know what to do next. The OP asked him if he made the sale before researching white label resellers or anything else.

        Of course he did and this is history repeating itself.

        Part of the answer may be to educate those people that if you keep jumping on the latest fad you'll be in a rocking chair in a few short years still "looking". If you build a business that retains customers and grows you may be able to retire someday.
        It's nice to see some people agree. Sadly it only seems to be a small handfull...
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  • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
    Amen, I'm glad someone finally posted this. Every niche has its own needs for mobile marketing, and you better have systems (that are tested) in place before you begin approaching these businesses with some white label platform that you just signed on with. Business owners could care less about how cool something is, they just want it to help their business.

    I just hope that a year from now business owners don't say.... "mobile marketing? No thanks, got burned with that from some guy a year ago, never again!"
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by xlfutur1 View Post

      Amen, I'm glad someone finally posted this. Every niche has its own needs for mobile marketing, and you better have systems (that are tested) in place before you begin approaching these businesses with some white label platform that you just signed on with. Business owners could care less about how cool something is, they just want it to help their business.

      I just hope that a year from now business owners don't say.... "mobile marketing? No thanks, got burned with that from some guy a year ago, never again!"
      Exactly my point! Well said...
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  • Profile picture of the author WarpedMind
    Thanks HypeText for starting this thread. I can't agree with you more about the dangers of everyone jumping on the mobile bandwagon without looking first.

    I used to jump off bridges for fun. I stopped when I really got concerned about not knowing what sharp objects, rocks, and surprise shallow spots lurked underneath. Especially with mobile, it may be a quick buck for many... but go outside of best practice guidelines and both the marketer and the client can quickly find themselves in hot water with the FTC.

    I've recently started my own mobile focused marketing project. It is going well... slow, but successful. Slow, because I'm treading carefully, studying, learning, so that I can produce valuable services for my customers. Successful, for the very same reasons. I'd rather make my money slowly but surely, rather than fly-by-night and hope to not get caught in the process.

    HypeText, I'd love to compare notes sometime. :-) Great to see someone else in the industry who has their head on straight!
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by WarpedMind View Post

      Thanks HypeText for starting this thread. I can't agree with you more about the dangers of everyone jumping on the mobile bandwagon without looking first.

      I used to jump off bridges for fun. I stopped when I really got concerned about not knowing what sharp objects, rocks, and surprise shallow spots lurked underneath. Especially with mobile, it may be a quick buck for many... but go outside of best practice guidelines and both the marketer and the client can quickly find themselves in hot water with the FTC.

      I've recently started my own mobile focused marketing project. It is going well... slow, but successful. Slow, because I'm treading carefully, studying, learning, so that I can produce valuable services for my customers. Successful, for the very same reasons. I'd rather make my money slowly but surely, rather than fly-by-night and hope to not get caught in the process.

      HypeText, I'd love to compare notes sometime. :-) Great to see someone else in the industry who has their head on straight!
      Jumping off Bridges huh? I jump off cliffs! lol I hang glide...

      Comparing notes would be a good thing...
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      • Profile picture of the author WarpedMind
        Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

        Jumping off Bridges huh? I jump off cliffs! lol I hang glide...

        Comparing notes would be a good thing...
        Yeah, let's! Email me... tomgrow AT gmail. I'd love to hear from ya.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Bell
    Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

    As I read thru many of these posts I am noticing, what I consider, to be a disturbing trend.

    There seem to be a large number of people jumping on the Mobile Bandwagon...signing up as reseller of a reseller who sold a WSO or whatever and running out to sell mobile without having any idea what they are doing...and it is evident in the questions that are being asked.

    Don't get me wrong, asking questions is good, but...

    The problem, as I see it, is as follows:

    "We are supposed to be experts in our field. I can run out and Buy a stethoscope and a lab jacket but that doesn't mean the public is going to pay me to perform life saving...or threatening surgery.

    Having access to a Mobile Platform does NOT make us experts.

    We are essentially, holding the life of these Small Businesses in our hand. If we dont know what we are doing, we can do more damage than good. Not only to our Clients but to the Industry as a whole."


    Buying access to a Mobile Resellers Platform is all find and dandy, but don't go off half cocked before you have been educated and trained to properly sell the product.

    Too many of these Mobile Marketing Companies are too quick to sell access to their platform to anyone with the spare cash to pay for it and they are doing nothing more than hurting small businesses and the industry on the whole as a result.

    I am all for self employment and the freedom it can bring, but one needs to crawl, then walk, and THEN Run. Without proper training you are simply going to do more damage than good.

    Whats your take?
    I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but at the same time you have to define what you would consider 'expert'. I work with several local businesses as an offline consultant, and i've found the most rudimentary ABC type of knowledge like "what is a squeeze page, did you know facebook is a good networking site, ever heard of an autoresponder"...the most basic knowledge, most business owners are clueless of.

    with that being said, knowing just a lil' more than your client makes you an expert.

    at the same time, you must make sure you know how to properly help these business owners & you have a plan, otherwise it will bring bad blood to your name and business
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    • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
      Originally Posted by Jason Bell View Post

      I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but at the same time you have to define what you would consider 'expert'. I work with several local businesses as an offline consultant, and i've found the most rudimentary ABC type of knowledge like "what is a squeeze page, did you know facebook is a good networking site, ever heard of an autoresponder"...the most basic knowledge, most business owners are clueless of.

      with that being said, knowing just a lil' more than your client makes you an expert.

      at the same time, you must make sure you know how to properly help these business owners & you have a plan, otherwise it will bring bad blood to your name and business
      No, knowing a little bit more than your client does NOT make you an expert,it just means you know a little bit more than your client.

      Business owners arent likely to know about autoresponders, online networking etc, anymore than you're likely to understand the legalities of running a call centre, or inside knowledge in the accountancy field, theyre not in this business so why would they know it and why should they . Knowing what an autoresponder (AWeber type) is is irrelevant to a business owner anymore than they dont know how a franking machine works or fully understand their telephone systems intricate details.

      Back to expert .... so say the expertise path is 1 (idiot) to 10 (genuine expert) , the clients knowledge level is 2-3, their potential supplier (Joe) comes along postioning himself as an expert, knows more than them at the level of 5 and theyre impressed and take them on, then they go to an exhibtion where a level 8 person (Julie) is presenting and whoa hold on, look what we're missing out on, Joes screwing us and selling us way short, Joes only giving what he knows to give, Julie is offering much more , Julie has to undo some of the balls up that Joe inadvertently done by trying to overstretch himself expertise wise, this costs the business time and money and a few clients but Julie sorts things out and they move forwards together.
      A few months later the bosses are reading an industry piece on an internal flight from a level 10 expert (tom) , holy cow Tom is the nuts ,we gotta get this guy onboard .
      There isnt so much ill feeling towards Julie as she never said she was an expert and she certainly knew her stuff compared to that schmuck Joe , but with Tom onboard the business goes F500 , share prices rise and stakeholders are jubilant , Julie still recieves business from them ie the lower level stuff that Tom is too 'good' to spend time on....
      as for Joe, he's still knocking on doors bull****ting unsuspecting business owners , or does he just genuinely not realise what he doesnt know, only Joe knows the answer.

      This isnt aimed at JB at all, just quoting his post
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    • Profile picture of the author rlhurst
      Originally Posted by Jason Bell View Post

      at the same time, you must make sure you know how to properly help these business owners & you have a plan, otherwise it will bring bad blood to your name and business
      Just throwing in the rest of the quote for context.
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      • Profile picture of the author rlhurst
        I've personally found that if you're upfront with a client about what you don't know (yet), they appreciate the honesty. When asked a question I'm not sure what the answer is, I tell them I'll research it and get back to them. I'd rather lose a potential client on what I don't know, rather than what I pretended to know.
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        • Profile picture of the author HypeText
          Originally Posted by rlhurst View Post

          I've personally found that if you're upfront with a client about what you don't know (yet), they appreciate the honesty. When asked a question I'm not sure what the answer is, I tell them I'll research it and get back to them. I'd rather lose a potential client on what I don't know, rather than what I pretended to know.
          Very true! "I don't know, but I will find out for you!" goes a long way towards earning a Clients trust...

          Throwing an answer off the cuff, or winging it, often backfires as the client will eventually find they were given incorrect information which will only serve to make them feel as if they were lied to....whether or not they actually were!
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      • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
        Originally Posted by rlhurst View Post

        Just throwing in the rest of the quote for context.
        ????? it was already quoted :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author sayewhat
    Hi everyone,
    I'm kinda new here, but I totally agree with the statement above. I know some folk whome has bought mobile marketing services in search of creating a platform themselves. Of course it didn't go well and they're still forced to find that one company that is "it".

    I'm not a fan of mobile marketing, but there are creative ways to go about it, even if you start by hand and not with any softwares or apps. People are so quick to look at flashy stuff and get amazed by it and don't look at the actual text, what the seller is actually saying that makes sense or does this person sound like a real person. Hype stuff is not good, point blank. If that person doesn't sound human or is hard selling, i don't wanna deal with it.

    Making fast money is everyones dream, and most people would rather takes what's popular out here. At the end of the day, you just gotta follow your passion and what youy're really at, then go from there.

    Just my lil intake.

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  • Profile picture of the author mrtreyk
    This is a very healthy discussion and I feel both HyperText and Kevin AKA Hubcap have very valid points, but I think xlfutur1 said it best, "I just hope that a year from now business owners don't say.... 'mobile marketing? No thanks, got burned with that from some guy a year ago, never again!'"
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
        Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

        I don't buy WSO's but apparently many do...without knowledge of who wrote them or what that persons level of experience is.

        Many will jump on the thread singing praises or pumping up excitement. How many of us can say for sure those accolades are accurate...or even legitimate?

        While some may well be written with people with expertise I would venture to guess many are not.
        Originally Posted by bryson View Post

        I don't buy WSO's either. Maybe I would if I knew without a shadow of a doubt the WSO was written from real experience.

        Just about anyone and his monkey can write a WSO. All it takes is a few days creeping the forum, google, yahoo answers for the latest hot topic, record all the related questions then search for the answers and whammo - the next best selling WSO.
        Both are good points and both are valid.

        But even if you knew the seller had experience that's no guarantee that you could replicate their success. We all have different strengths and weaknesses as well as other intangibles we bring to the table.

        As you know having success in anything doesn't come from simply following a set recipe. There will be obstacles to negotiate and each person will react differently when they come to that bump in the road.

        Many factors come into play when evaluating a particular model or method. Experience is big. But you should always fall back on a) your critical thinking skills and b) your gut.

        People and companies making outrageous claims is nothing new. It's prevalent in many markets (weight loss for instance).

        Longevity doesn't necessarily mean excellence. And being new doesn't necessarily mean ineptness. We've seen in the technology/computer sector how upstarts can upstage stalwarts. Google seemingly came out of nowhere and blind sided Yahoo and the other search engines. Apple created a music store and a phone that caught their respective industries off guard while cornering the market.

        Publisher after publisher told JJ Rowling that noone would read her book "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone". It was too long and involved for her target audience. We all know how that turned out.

        I know at first glance you might not think these examples apply to the thread (especially the multi-nationals) but the underlying principles remain the same.

        If you come across an idea that you think has merit it shouldn't matter where the idea originated. You take it, mold it to your particular situation and run with it.


        Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

        Mobile is much more than just a Mobile Website. It is a, and sometimes part of a, Marketing Strategy.

        There is mobile couponing, there are mobile display ads, there are various sms based marketing tools, there is also mobile websites, QR Codes, Short Codes, etc..
        Completely agree. Having a mobile strategy and an overall marketing strategy are very important. It seems people want to isolate their marketing efforts dependent on the media used.

        Mobile strategies can integrate with web, print, radio and tv. One of the things you should be doing is showing businesses how combining these mediums will result in increased profits.


        Originally Posted by rlhurst View Post

        I've personally found that if you're upfront with a client about what you don't know (yet), they appreciate the honesty. When asked a question I'm not sure what the answer is, I tell them I'll research it and get back to them. I'd rather lose a potential client on what I don't know, rather than what I pretended to know.
        Agreed and that is a sign of professionalism. I don't think anyone expects you to know everything. Surgeons consult with other surgeons. Engineers consult with other engineers.

        There's nothing shameful in not knowing an answer.


        Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

        Jumping off Bridges huh? I jump off cliffs! lol I hang glide...
        I've been wanting to try hang gliding. What part of the country/world are you in?
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        • Profile picture of the author HypeText
          Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap View Post

          Both are good points and both are valid.

          But even if you knew the seller had experience that's no guarantee that you could replicate their success. We all have different strengths and weaknesses as well as other intangibles we bring to the table.

          As you know having success in anything doesn't come from simply following a set recipe. There will be obstacles to negotiate and each person will react differently when they come to that bump in the road.

          Many factors come into play when evaluating a particular model or method. Experience is big. But you should always fall back on a) your critical thinking skills and b) your gut.

          People and companies making outrageous claims is nothing new. It's prevalent in many markets (weight loss for instance).

          Longevity doesn't necessarily mean excellence. And being new doesn't necessarily mean ineptness. We've seen in the technology/computer sector how upstarts can upstage stalwarts. Google seemingly came out of nowhere and blind sided Yahoo and the other search engines. Apple created a music store and a phone that caught their respective industries off guard while cornering the market.

          Publisher after publisher told JJ Rowling that noone would read her book "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone". It was too long and involved for her target audience. We all know how that turned out.

          I know at first glance you might not think these examples apply to the thread (especially the multi-nationals) but the underlying principles remain the same.

          If you come across an idea that you think has merit it shouldn't matter where the idea originated. You take it, mold it to your particular situation and run with it.




          Completely agree. Having a mobile strategy and an overall marketing strategy are very important. It seems people want to isolate their marketing efforts dependent on the media used.

          Mobile strategies can integrate with web, print, radio and tv. One of the things you should be doing is showing businesses how combining these mediums will result in increased profits.




          Agreed and that is a sign of professionalism. I don't think anyone expects you to know everything. Surgeons consult with other surgeons. Engineers consult with other engineers.

          There's nothing shameful in not knowing an answer.




          I've been wanting to try hang gliding. What part of the country/world are you in?
          California, started years ago when I lived in NY...Ellenville NY has killer jump points...
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          • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
            Originally Posted by HypeText View Post

            California, started years ago when I lived in NY...Ellenville NY has killer jump points...
            I grew up in Rockland County and have good friends in Dutchess. I'm in North Florida now. I know there's a place that gives instruction outside of Orlando (using winches to get airborne I think..) and some places along the outer banks in North Carolina.

            I do fly sailplanes here with the local club. As you know Florida is as flat as a board. No mountains no wave lift. Still it's a blast and I would love to fly out west.
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            • Profile picture of the author HypeText
              Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap View Post

              I grew up in Rockland County and have good friends in Dutchess. I'm in North Florida now. I know there's a place that gives instruction outside of Orlando (using winches to get airborne I think..) and some places along the outer banks in North Carolina.

              I do fly sailplanes here with the local club. As you know Florida is as flat as a board. No mountains no wave lift. Still it's a blast and I would love to fly out west.
              I know what you mean, I spent 18 yrs living in Florida mostly Central (Daytona/Palm Coast) but also southern, and it's one flat State!
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  • Profile picture of the author philboy uk
    how much emphasis do you place on mobile validation ?

    http://validator.w3.org/mobile/check...ypetext.com%2F
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  • Profile picture of the author Jetmir
    I'm quite new on Mobile Marketing industry and can't contribute about this thread, but I just wanted to say that I HIGHLY appreciate that how ya people give many points about it and how ya share your experiences here for free.

    Thank you!
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by Ghurabaa View Post

      I'm quite new on Mobile Marketing industry and can't contribute about this thread, but I just wanted to say that I HIGHLY appreciate that how ya people give many points about it and how ya share your experiences here for free.

      Thank you!
      You Honesty is greatly appreciated! The Forum could use more like you! There is no shame in admitting you are new and expressing an interest in learning, in fact it's the best way to be...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dean talley
    I have spent the last 2 1/2 years educating myself about mobile and building our platform and just now beginning to sell our services. I can not imagine trying to sell or develop with less expertise than I have acquired in that time. It would be of great benefit to many too understand that, image may get you in the room, but it is only substance that will keep you there.
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by WarpedMind View Post

      Yeah, let's! Email me... tomgrow AT gmail. I'd love to hear from ya.
      Will do, once I get a few things off my plate.

      Originally Posted by Dean talley View Post

      I have spent the last 2 1/2 years educating myself about mobile and building our platform and just now beginning to sell our services. I can not imagine trying to sell or develop with less expertise than I have acquired in that time. It would be of great benefit to many too understand that, image may get you in the room, but it is only substance that will keep you there.
      Well said, Dean...
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  • Profile picture of the author UTarmadillo
    I think the problem occurs when people try to sell more than they can deliver. There are lots of simple services you can provide right away that will provide value to a client who hasn't employed them yet. Just don't lead them down the path and then fail to deliver. Put in hard work to deliver quality and when it gets easier for you, expand and offer more services as well as scale up in the number of clients you can serve at one time. It takes a long time to become an expert at anything, otherwise everyone would be an expert and it would mean nothing.
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