Can Lightning Travel over a Wireless Connection?

14 years ago

Hi Allen,

Without being facetious, lightning is a wireless phenomenon by definition.

Could you give some more details of the setup that is concerning you?

Regards,

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ss442

14 years ago

The short answer is "YES".

The electricity may not follow the wireless waves going from the router to your computer specifically, but the scenario you described is easily accomplished if you are unlucky. Static electricity build up can produce an astonishing amount power discharge as well.

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sevenish

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ss442

The short answer is "YES".

The electricity may not follow the wireless waves going from the router to your computer specifically, but the scenario you described is easily accomplished if you are unlucky. Static electricity build up can produce an astonishing amount power discharge as well.

While electricity and lightning can travel many routes, electricity does not travel via radio waves via our current infrastructure. Electricity CAN be transmitted via radio waves, but its potential has remained unharnessed since it's discovery.

In any case, since the question asked if a lightning strike could fry a laptop over the router's wireless connection, the answer remains "no".

Yes, there is static electricity that can fry electronics -- although I'd bet it's somewhat rare in Tampa due to the humidity. Yes, you can get struck by lightning if the right meteorologic circumstances (ozone column) coincide with no other apparent paths of connectivity. But not through a wireless internet connection; and that was the question.

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sevenish

14 years ago

If you're talking about your wireless connection from your router, no. Electricity requires continuity of a conductive path. For example, the wire from your electrical outlet to your router will conduct the electricity, the air will not. In fact, air represents what is called "infinite resistance" to current. Your wireless connection is delivered via radio waves which do not conduct electricity.

That said, you can get struck by lightning if the ozone so chooses to gather around you in an electrical storm, which once happened to me, but that's not the question you asked.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Lightning could strike a nearby transformer or elsewhere nearby and fry your laptop via the power supply plugged into the outlet. But it won't get fried via your wireless connection.

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Michael Ellis

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sevenish

If you're talking about your wireless connection from your router, no. Electricity requires continuity of a conductive path. For example, the wire from your electrical outlet to your router will conduct the electricity, the air will not. In fact, air represents what is called "infinite resistance" to current. Your wireless connection is delivered via radio waves which do not conduct electricity.

That said, you can get struck by lightning if the ozone so chooses to gather around you in an electrical storm, but that's not the question you asked.

Hope that helps.

I'm going to go out on a limb... and believe everything this guy says about lightning!

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NashRyker

14 years ago

I don't believe its possible. Otherwise, cell phone signals and other wireless signals would be in big trouble. I'm no expert, that's just what comes to mind for me.

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Allen Graves

14 years ago

I always heard that lightning would travel from a cordless phone base to the handheld receiver...so I was wondering if it could tavel from the router to my laptop.

I live dead-smack in the middle of the lightning capitol of the world.

Allen

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

I always heard that lightning would travel from a cordless phone base to the handheld receiver...so I was wondering if it could tavel from the router to my laptop.

I live dead-smack in the middle of the lightning capitol of the world.

Allen

Yes you do.
Every day at 3:45 pm the worst lightning storm you have ever seen hits, 7 days a week.
At least it did in the 70's.

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Floyd Fisher

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

I always heard that lightning would travel from a cordless phone base to the handheld receiver...so I was wondering if it could tavel from the router to my laptop.

I live dead-smack in the middle of the lightning capitol of the world.

Allen

That can only happen if the handheld reciever is in the cradle. Now you have a electrical path for it to go into your receiver.

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Palo Coyote

14 years ago

Allen,
It was not the lightning it was EMP. An Electro Magnetic Impluse. Commonly caused by Nuclear Bombs and very much a by product of Thunderstorms, Tornado's and Lightning. Lightning causes the Magnetic Field to fluctuate, (from Wikipedia) "The resulting electric and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems to produce damaging current and voltage surges."

If you did NOT see a Mushroom Shaped Cloud it was most likely an EMP.

Technically the answer to your question is, "No, the lightning did not travel over the Wireless Connection." Did the Lightning cause and EMP, very possibly.

Did you have a big Thunderstorm? Tampa, FL, uh Duh on me.

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Thomas 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Palo Coyote

If you did NOT see a Mushroom Shaped Cloud it was most likely an EMP.

Of course, if you do see one, your laptop will be the least of your worries!
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Cerberus

14 years ago

No it can't. plain and simple.

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Allen Graves

14 years ago

LOL - yea, severe thunderstorms every single day.

I was just worried about my daughter being on her laptop during storms. Probably a good idea anyway just to tell her to turn it off.

Thanks everyone,
Allen

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Floyd Fisher

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

LOL - yea, severe thunderstorms every single day.

I was just worried about my daughter being on her laptop during storms. Probably a good idea anyway just to tell her to turn it off.

Thanks everyone,
Allen

Yes, but not the way you think.

Lightening can travel over power lines and zap the hell out of your computer through the wall outlet/power supply on your computer. So unless you got industrial grade surge protection, shutting it off is a good idea.

Hope that helps.

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Richard Tunnah

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Yes, but not the way you think.

Lightening can travel over power lines and zap the hell out of your computer through the wall outlet/power supply on your computer. So unless you got industrial grade surge protection, shutting it off is a good idea.

Hope that helps.

You're right Floyd. As a kid our next door neighbours had a direct lightening strike to their tv aerial. It travelled into the house then jumped into the electrics and screwed everything connected including sending a tv nearly 6ft! Firemen said they were lucky no fire accured. However here's something no one could agree on. Do you leave stuff plugged in during a lightening strike but the plug switched off or pull everything out? Remember fireman said unplug and you could get a fire as lightening has no where to go unlike if it hits some electric appliance and fizzles out but fries the appliance!

Rich

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Tunnah

You're right Floyd. As a kid our next door neighbours had a direct lightening strike to their tv aerial. It travelled into the house then jumped into the electrics and screwed everything connected including sending a tv nearly 6ft! Firemen said they were lucky no fire accured. However here's something no one could agree on. Do you leave stuff plugged in during a lightening strike but the plug switched off or pull everything out? Remember fireman said unplug and you could get a fire as lightening has no where to go unlike if it hits some electric appliance and fizzles out but fries the appliance!

Rich

You know what lightning is like? A FLOOD!!!!!! Water that is coming VERY FAST!

You know what wire is like? A DRAIN!

So what happens when water hits a drain? If it takes the right path, and the drain can handle it, it just drains! Electricity is the same way! It does the intended job, and is gone.

If it takes the WRONG path, or the drain can't handle it, there could be an overflow! Electricity is the same way! It TRIES to complete a circuit the best it can. If it fails 100%, nothing happens! NO lightning, etc.... If it succeeds only partially, it can generate HEAT! That is how an incandescent lightbulb works. Even that lightbulb could start a fire if it gets too close to stuff.

My point is that plugging an appliance in will NOT guarantee it won't be hurt. In fact, if it is grounded, it may CAUSE it to be hit, etc....

BTW They use that fact to have lightning rods! As I said, lightning tries the best it can. Lightning is more likely to go through something that is VERY conductive, tall, and grounded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod

After all, all it wants to do is drain power.

Steve

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Allen Graves

14 years ago

LOL - they don't call our NHL team the Tampa Bay Lightning for no reason. And our Arena Football Team is the Tampa Bay Storm.

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Jagged

14 years ago

Originally Posted by yyww2008

sorry, i don't know.

I'm looking forward to more quality posts like this....especially for a 1st post....keep up the good work :rolleyes:

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xiaophil

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sevenish

If you're talking about your wireless connection from your router, no. Electricity requires continuity of a conductive path. For example, the wire from your electrical outlet to your router will conduct the electricity, the air will not. In fact, air represents what is called "infinite resistance" to current. Your wireless connection is delivered via radio waves which do not conduct electricity.

And that, folks is why you never see lightning in the air.

Have you perchance been ghost writing for the author mentioned in this thread?

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Yes, but not the way you think.

Lightening can travel over power lines and zap the hell out of your computer through the wall outlet/power supply on your computer. So unless you got industrial grade surge protection, shutting it off is a good idea.

Hope that helps.

Floyd is onto it. Unplugging the laptop and running off battery is a safer bet during a storm.

Static electricity build up can produce an astonishing amount power discharge as well.

I thought lightning was a static discharge.

Allen if you are in a lightning zone why not call your local sparky and have a talk about lightning rods, GDT's and other arresting and control devices. These things are well understood and once installed you can rest easy, as can your electrical equipment.

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Mark Riddle

14 years ago

Barak (Hebrew: בָּרָק‎, "Lightning) can damage a router, as it can also damage a computer, however, it doesn't travel via the router RF signals as many have already stated.

Of course this post has nothing to do with Barry Soetoro

Mark Riddle

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CarolinaInvestor

14 years ago

What? I think everyone needs to go back to marketing...I guess me being an Electrical Engineer I probably need to go back to engineering since I'm terrible at sales. Ok lets set a few things straight:

1. Your daughter is safe if she is not wired in to something (ie, no power, no ethernet, etc)

2. If you are close enought to have to worry about an electromagnetic pulse then you are probably getting fried by the lightning anyway. Magnetic fields drop off exponentially as you move further away from the source.

3. No your coordless phone is ok too unless, as someone has mentioned, it is in the cradle which probably means you are not using it - still safe.

4. Surge protectors wont protect your equipment against lighting off or on. Unplug it if you are worried. There are no evil kenevil electrons that can jump that gap.

5. Not to say that lightning wont arc, but electricity likes to take the easiest path to ground. If you are standing next to a tree and since we are made mostly of water and electrolytes - that would be you. You will get a big fat arc.

whew - had to get that off my chest...

Nothing to see here, lets go, everyone back to work...

Now can anyone solve all my IM problems???

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westom 14 years ago

Originally Posted by CarolinaInvestor.com

What? I think everyone needs to go back to marketing...

CarolinaInvestor accurately described the problem and threat. Surges seek earth ground. If permitted inside the building, a surge will hunt for destructive paths to earth even via appliances. If you try to stop a surge current, then the current created a higher voltage and blow through that blocking device. Nothing can stop or absorb surges.

So your telco disconnects everybody during every thunderstorm. They also have computers connected to overhead wires all over town. Damage to their computers means the entire town is without phone service for four days. So they disconnect?

Of course not. They use the same protection techniques used for over 100 years. Any wire in any cable that enters the building gets earthed before entering the building. Any wire that cannot be earthed directly is then earthed via a 'whole house' protector. A surge that is earthed before entering the building need not hunt for earth inside the building.

That is the same principles installed in any home to have no damage - appliance powered on or off. How it is done can be described later. But the solution for AC mains involves a 'whole house' protector that sells even in Lowes for less than $50. Of course the protector (not computer) must have the short connection to earth.

Routine is to have munitions dumps struck by lightning and no damage. Same principle. A surge that is earthed before entering a structure causes no damage.

Well understood nature of lighting. A horse standing near a lightning struck tree is killed. Did nearby EM fields kill that horse? That is a popular myth. But lightning is seeking charges miles distant. So it strikes a conductive material (wood) to get into earth. Then travels through earth, up the horse's hind legs, down its fore legs, and onward to those mile distant charges. Horse is killed because it is part of a more conductive path to those charges. Horse was directly struck; not killed by nearby lightning.

For a daughter to be harmed, she also must be part of a complete circuit. What is the incoming and outgoing electrical path? Had the horse been surrounded by a buried wire loop, then that surge would have gone around the horse. Horse was no longer in a conductive path for direct lightning strike. Same principle applies to household appliance and human protection. If a surge is earthed before entering the building, then surge energy does not even enter the building. We routinely leave all appliances connected even when powered off IF properly earthed surge protection is installed.

Essential to having surge protection is the short ('less than 10 foot') connection from protector to single point earth ground. Essential - protection means surge currents need not enter the building.
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seasoned

14 years ago

Let me tell you something! BY DEFINITION air is one of the BEST insulators there is. I mean figure it out.... EVERYTHING is insulated by air! Your computer boards are likely BATHED in air!

There is NO SUCH THING as a perfect insulator! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Want proof? OK!

1. The planet is generally one charge, and the sky is generally another. Sounds like I disproved my theory, right? NOPE! GUESS what happens when the potential difference becomes too great? OH COME ON, you know this one! We have a special name for the visible occurance! YEP! LIGHTNING!

2. Sometimes there is JUST enough voltage to cover a small gap, and a person feels it. STATIC electricity.

3. One guy realized this can happen in a VACUUM, and he created a device using the principle! A VACUUM TUBE!

4. HECK, ANOTHER guy realized the SAME thing can happen with silicone, and developed the TRANSISTOR!

5. The air principle is ALSO used in most internal combustion engines!

6. It can go through INSULATION(cross talk/electrical humm).

SO, can lightning go over a wireless connection? Naw, it would probably just go straight through. It can go through plastic, etc... Lightning can't actually travel over the wave ITSELF. In other words, lightning could maybe FRY your computer if it comes within say 10 feet. If it were 1000 feet away, you may survive just fine, even if it fries the router you are communicating with. Of course, if there is ANY electrical connection between that router and your computer, ANY!!!!!!! USB, power, serial, ethernet(cable), BOTH items could be TOAST!

BTW I have to say it!

Originally Posted by sevenish

If you're talking about your wireless connection from your router, no. Electricity requires continuity of a conductive path.

He is right, of course, BUT, as I just demonstrated, ANYTHING can be a conductor!

Originally Posted by sevenish

For example, the wire from your electrical outlet to your router will conduct the electricity, the air will not. In fact, air represents what is called "infinite resistance" to current.

NOPE! ...

Originally Posted by sevenish

Your wireless connection is delivered via radio waves which do not conduct electricity.

Radio waves are electromagnetic radiation that can be PICKED UP AS ELECTRICITY from the air!

Originally Posted by sevenish

That said, you can get struck by lightning if the ozone so chooses to gather around you in an electrical storm, which once happened to me, but that's not the question you asked.

Actually, the ozone is created by lightning. It tends to be ABOVE the air.(hence the ozone layer)

Originally Posted by sevenish

Edit: Lightning could strike a nearby transformer or elsewhere nearby and fry your laptop via the power supply plugged into the outlet. But it won't get fried via your wireless connection.

Transformers work by creating a magnetic field that passes through INSULATION and when the magnetic field breaks down it creates an electrical current on the other side. THAT is why we use AC! Radio uses the same method, except it is higher frequency, so it goes easily through the air, and there is a "tank circuit" to tune in only the desired channel. BTW lightning crossing NEAR a wire(even insulated), could cause a big current in that wire.

Steve

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jakesellers

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

SO, can lightning go over a wireless connection? Naw, it would probably just go straight through. It can go through plastic, etc... Lightning can't actually travel over the wave ITSELF.

Thank you for the warning about lightning going through plastic. Next time I'm using my laptop during a thunderstorm, I'm going to plug it in to make sure it's grounded.

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Jared Alberghini

14 years ago

Al,

To be safe, you could remove your tin-foil hat (not recommended), and put on some rubber boots.

Jumping up and down should also increase your chance of survival.

.jrd

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Lawrh

14 years ago

Since we've had an electrical engineer provide input -CarolinaInvestor- this threads other responses are pretty much irrelevant. Time to close it.

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Jared Alberghini 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lawrh

Since we've had an electrical engineer provide input -CarolinaInvestor- this threads other responses are pretty much irrelevant. Time to close it.

So why did you post another irrelevant reply? :p
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- Thomas 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini
  
  So why did you post another irrelevant reply? :p
  
  Stop asking irrelevant questions!
  
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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lawrh

Since we've had an electrical engineer provide input -CarolinaInvestor- this threads other responses are pretty much irrelevant. Time to close it.

You're pretty funny Lawrh, where you a comedian in a past life

This threads in the OT now irrelevant rules apply.

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Killer Joe

14 years ago

Here's your difinitive answer. I found it in another thread...

Quote:
The electrons go through a series of filters ... to assure that the electricity produced is composed of pure electrons. Having protons mixed in the procedure would only cause power interruption. The protons are absorbed and disposed through an alternate exhaust, which excretes the molecules away from the battery connection.

I hope that clears this up

KJ

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Here's your difinitive answer. I found it in another thread...

Quote:
The electrons go through a series of filters ... to assure that the electricity produced is composed of pure electrons. Having protons mixed in the procedure would only cause power interruption. The protons are absorbed and disposed through an alternate exhaust, which excretes the molecules away from the battery connection.

I hope that clears this up

KJ

Battery farts?

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Killer Joe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Battery farts?

Are we changing the words again? :confused:

I just got used to the last changes...

I hope they don't turn the word 'newbie' into 'pretzel', that would really confuse those batteryfart goobers...

KJ

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Are we changing the words again? :confused:

I just got used to the last changes...

I hope they don't turn the word 'newbie' into 'pretzel', that would really confuse those batteryfart goobers...

KJ

No, no word changing Joe.
I just took this sentence and condensed it down to two words, 'Battery Farts'.

The protons are absorbed and disposed through an alternate exhaust, which excretes the molecules away from the battery connection.

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

no it can't.

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jakesellers

14 years ago

You guys are fun. I came for the philosophical, entomological, scientific and metaphysical exploration of the nature of the question 'can lightning travel over wireless connections.' Unexpected bonus: learning how solar panels work. I totally forgot my joke about "well if there's power over ethernet" and wifi I was going to add but it's probably just as well.

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HeySal

14 years ago

So now we got that settled...................Allen - you have warned your daughter not to use her laptop and cell phones at the gas pump, haven't you? Klaboom.

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

So now we got that settled...................Allen - you have warned your daughter not to use her laptop and cell phones at the gas pump, haven't you? Klaboom.

That is a myth.

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

That is a myth.

Feel welcome to test it out for validity any time you should wish.
If you don't return, we will know the answer, won't we?

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Michael Motley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Feel welcome to test it out for validity any time you should wish.
If you don't return, we will know the answer, won't we?

I have tested it. As has the mythbusters. Here is snopes.com

snopes.com: Cell Phone Use at Gas Pump

and when you think about it, what is there on a cellphone, that isnt on your car radio, they are both broadcasting and recieving radio signals, thats all your cell phone is. So if you havent blown up your car by listening to your car radio when pumping gas, what makes you think that your cellphone would do the same?
I have been on my motorcycle, inches from an open tank pumping gass, recieved and starte cell phone conversations. nothing happened. Why? because unless you start scraping that phone around where the battery can arc or you build up static electricity by rubbing it in and out of your pocket a couple hundre times before pulling it out, there isnt anything generating any kind of electricity to ignite the gas fumes

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

I have tested it. As has the mythbusters. Here is snopes.com

snopes.com: Cell Phone Use at Gas Pump

and when you think about it, what is there on a cellphone, that isnt on your car radio, they are both broadcasting and recieving radio signals, thats all your cell phone is. So if you havent blown up your car by listening to your car radio when pumping gas, what makes you think that your cellphone would do the same?
I have been on my motorcycle, inches from an open tank pumping gass, recieved and starte cell phone conversations. nothing happened. Why? because unless you start scraping that phone around where the battery can arc or you build up static electricity by rubbing it in and out of your pocket a couple hundre times before pulling it out, there isnt anything generating any kind of electricity to ignite the gas fumes

The "mythbusters" are a bunch of idiots! They think they know EVERYTHING! The last show I watched, for example, "tested" the double dip myth. HOW?

1. They IRADIATED the chips! That is PROVEN to retard growth, and could affect the test!
2. They used agar for the sauce substitute. Probably not the best thing.
3. They tested IMMEDIATELY after they contaminated the agar. Bacteria is supposed to double like every 30 minutes! So THEY had like 1=1 when it SHOULD have been more like 1=256!!!!!!! So there results should have been increased by 256! That assumes a party of about 4 hours. That is 8 increases of the number of bacteria. As for the last comment on their STUPID show about "what are immune systems for", implying that your immune system can handle it, tell that to someone with aids, HPV, HSV II, or even salmonella, etc...

Or what about the jet incident, where they figured that the only difference was a relatively small difference in air pressure! WRONG AGAIN! They didn't take into account things like position on the plane, and SPEED! Planes generally go between about 320 and 700mph! That is FAST! FAR faster than I have EVER driven in a car, and a CAR has a bigger differential than they indicated on the plane!

Or what about the gas flammability? They TOUCHED on their own failure early on. Did you know that iron, wheat, and sugar are HIGHLY explosive? It's TRUE! Under the right circumstances, wheat silos have been known to blow up. Calorie is a measure of HEAT, after all! And even IRON can if it is small enough, aerosolized, etc...

http://www.osha.gov/as/opa/foia/hot_6.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie

The calorie is a pre-SI metric unit of energy. The unit was first defined by Professor Nicolas Clément in 1824 as a unit of heat.

And WHO in their right mind can POSSIBLY say that gas can't be explosive? Internal combustion engines REQUIRE an explosion. GRANTED, like wheat, sugar, and iron, unless it is aerosolized, the best you may get is a flame.

BTW electricity will not, and never has, caused an explosion! Explosions require something more like heat or a spark. HECK, internal combustion engines generally use a spark(diesel use heat). Can a cell phone cause a spark? POSSIBLY! Will all do it ALWAYS? NO WAY!

One more thing, Car radios are farther from the flames, etc. I have heard similar arguments to yours about SMOKING around gas! Hey, you can NOT prove a negative! If you tried it 100 times, and never had an explosion, I am STILL telling you it is DANGEROUS! Can electricity spark? YES! Can sparks start a fire? YES! Can a fire near gas cause an explosion? YES! All those are FACTS! SORRY!

BTW Car batteries can ALSO explode! FACT! They can emit HYDROGEN! You should always connect the ground LAST, and AWAY from the battery! USUALLY nothing happens either way. Some people HAVE gotten on the news for having battery acid splashed in their faces because of a spark too close to the battery though.

One more thing. You don't really need much power to cause a spark, or heat. And car batterys aren't even really used by most things in a car. FURTHER, any decent car is going to have a battery that is capable of running the starter motor for AT LEAST several minutes and the headlights for several hours. The heat needed to make a thin piece of wire literally MELT is not that great. Look at flash lights, or the igniters for estes rockets. Laptops DO need more power, but look at all the sony batteries that caught fire! As for the ringers, cellphones work in EXACTLY the same way as the first phones! BOTH use a magnet to control a solenoid! The ONLY difference is the old ones had that control a hammer that struck a bell. The new ones use that to stretch a diaphragm to make a click.

Steve

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dino_rhino

14 years ago

lightning as in thunder? if that's what you're talking about then yes.

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stgga

14 years ago

run away, run away....just had huge lightening sotrm blow through and no shocking calls.

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Tizzy Dupont

14 years ago

I promise you with all my future beer (alas the beer I have drunk is lost to mankind) that your laptop will never EVER be harmed by lightning over a wireless internet connection. UNLESS you are using it in a wide open field in lightning country. Still, the radio signals will have had nothing to do with it.

Even landline broadband connections, such as from cable companies, have installed equipment to protect your awesome internet and cable enabled gizmos from lightning. Last time I heard about lightning hurting any kind of computer was through a powerline back in the 80's when they still made stuff out of rocks and people still ate dirt 'cuz they didn't know better.

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blm2007

14 years ago

It can travel through internet connections. My LAN-card also got burned once because of the lightning.

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ajkoll

11 years ago

It can travel through internet connection, via Lan, because it is connected to the phone line, or internet line. But via a wireless internet connection, it can not travel.

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dunmo

11 years ago

No i dont think so because because lightning needs a medium so that its effects maybe transmitted.

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Can Lightning Travel over a Wireless Connection?

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