Why 'seemingly' smart people do such idiotic things ??

11 years ago

40 years in academia will cause the occasional meltdown, especially when your personal viewpoints are crushed and disallowed by the Ivory Tower's grand regime.

I'm not saying her actions should be condoned, mind you. I'm just saying it looks like she went on tilt in a very public manner.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Well, considering what she said, and her position, GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!!!! I don't know why, but Cracker doesn't phase me one bit. I wonder why she said it. But the fact that she would use a term CONSIDERED pejorative just adds to it. Of course SHE likely won't have it evolve into a hate crime even though a white using a similar term towards blacks, that blacks use towards themselves ALL THE TIME, could cause far worse than what that teacher got, even WITHOUT the "kill yourself" comment.

STEVE

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

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seasoned 11 years ago

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- discrat 11 years ago
  
  Steve getting another Thread Closed down
  
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Electrical

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I think its about time to add race arguments to religion and politics as being off limit. tired of the ones I have seen in the last 48 hours on WF and this is shaping up to be the same
.

That's funny considering it was you who not only brought race up, but continued to argue about it in an extremely immature way and destroyed 2 separate threads last night.

And now you have the audacity to act like you are above it and don't want race arguments lol...

Does this forum have an ignore function? I'm not spending anymore time dealing with race baiters.

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Dan Riffle 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Electrical

Does this forum have an ignore function? I'm

Red bar at the top:
User CP > Edit Options > Edit Ignore List (under "Settings and Options" heading)
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- Tom B Banned 11 years ago
  
  Did Dan just post something?
  
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  Frank Donovan 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap
  
  Did Dan just post something?
  
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- Electrical 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  Red bar at the top:
  User CP > Edit Options > Edit Ignore List (under "Settings and Options" heading)
  
  Thank you, works perfectly
  
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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Electrical

That's funny considering it was you who not only brought race up, but continued to argue about it in an extremely immature way and destroyed 2 separate threads last night.

ROFl...still trying? You got your head handed to you when your hero finally admitted that yes he made his Ghetto reference because I was African American. You knew nothing of the history or previous conversations but came running in to claim otherwise in a blaze of vast ignorance and got proven wrong.

Thats exactly why I have suggested race topics be off limits over a year ago with old management because there are a whole bunch of people particularly who hang out down here that make these race baited statements (like Steve loves to make and you love to back up)and then get all upset when you get called on it.

and as you learned ...You will get called on it. Claiming race baiting and pulling the race card has its legitimate place but sometimes like with you and a few other its just code word for - be quiet and take our innuendos..

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

ROFl...still trying? You got your head handed to you when your hero finally admitted that yes he made his Ghetto reference because I was African American. You knew nothing of the history or previous conversations but came running in to claim otherwise in a blaze of vast ignorance and got proven wrong.

For the record, I don't know the "hero" you speak of, or what you are talking about there.

Thats exactly why I have suggested race topics be off limits over a year ago with old management because there are a whole bunch of people particularly who hang out down here that make these race baited statements (like Steve loves to make and you love to back up)and then get all upset when you get called on it.

AGAIN, IRONIC! This whole thread has been about a woman that happened to be black saying ferguson was 100% about race, Brown was 100% innocent, accused the others of being all racist whites, and telling them to kill themselves. I simply spoke to the irony of that, and how she would be treated. I didn't start this thread OR that idea! YOU seem ok with this thread, and the idea, but NOT with detractors, like me. That is ALL I am here!

NO place on this planet is perfect for ANYONE! And everyone in the US has their own problems and concerns, DESPITE what you have been led to believe. And there are PLENTY of successful blacks as well. Several aren't even on the same bandwagon that you jumped on.

Steve

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Joe Mobley

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Electrical

That's funny considering it was you who not only brought race up, but continued to argue about it in an extremely immature way and destroyed 2 separate threads last night.

The hallmarks of a forum troll.

Originally Posted by Electrical

And now you have the audacity to act like you are above it and don't want race arguments lol...

It has nothing to do with audacity. It has everything to do with being emotionally needy. In his case, he feeds his neediness by attempted displays of superiority.

The weakness of his character can not stand any significant challenge to his beliefs about blacks or religion. Hence, his need to blow up threads.

Originally Posted by Electrical

Does this forum have an ignore function? I'm not spending anymore time dealing with race baiters.

Yep, it does. Some people are simply not worth my time. He has been on my ignore list for years it seems like.

...

Incidentally, he's so vain, he probably thinks this post is about him.

Joe Mobley

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I think its about time to add race arguments to religion and politics as being off limit. tired of the ones I have seen in the last 48 hours on WF and this is shaping up to be the same
.

Huh?

Then what on earth would you have to stir up then?

Oh, wait! It's you. Uh, scratch that.

Terra

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Oh, wait! It's you. Uh, scratch that.

Well I think.....oh wait a minute its you. The one that thinks some pictures prove that animals have Human "Feeelings".

Umm...never mind.

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Well I think.....oh wait a minute its you. The one that thinks some pictures prove that animals have Human "Feeelings".

Umm...never mind.

Since when do feelings have to be human?

And if you'll pay closer attention, I said, and I quote...

Whoever says animals don't have feelings are plain wrong!

Did you notice the word human in there anywhere? Huh? Well, did you?

Seems to me someone who prides themselves on their debating skills would at least check for correct facts.

You think?

Terra

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

at least check for correct facts.

Sorry MissT but until you can put up more than a couple pictures as proof - Emotional intelligence" (your own words) is a HUMAN quality

Congratulations on the new house though!

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Dan Riffle

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sorry MissT but until you can put up more than a couple pictures as proof - Emotional intelligence" (your own words) is a HUMAN quality

Congratulations on the new house though!

Come on, Mike. Scientists have long believed that some animals mourn their dead. Hell, Koko the Gorilla cried when she heard Robin Williams died. Mourning counts as emotional intelligence, no?

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Come on, Mike. Scientists have long believed that some animals mourn their dead. Hell, Koko the Gorilla cried when she heard Robin Williams died. Mourning counts as emotional intelligence, no?

Elephants, and I believe even CHIMPS, have been known to mourn the dead. Orangutans have been known to act differently, etc... Of course, orangutans and chimps are supposed to be CLOSE to humans. Gorillas are also in the same group.

Steve

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Come on, Mike. Scientists have long believed that some animals mourn their dead. Hell, Koko the Gorilla cried when she heard Robin Williams died. Mourning counts as emotional intelligence, no?

"Emotional intelligence" is one of those terms that most of us think we know what it means. Personally, I don't know exactly what the term means. Maybe a good definition would make these discussions more productive.

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Dan Riffle 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Maybe a good definition would make these discussions more productive.

I think a simple google session provides enough information, so much so that a discussion probably isn't needed.
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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

"Emotional intelligence" is one of those terms that most of us think we know what it means. Personally, I don't know exactly what the term means. Maybe a good definition would make these discussions more productive.

Claude,
Emotional intelligence (EI) refers to the ability to perceive, control and evaluate emotions.

It's just that simple. Some psychologists believe that your emotional quotient is more important than your than your intelligence quotient and yes, there are tests for that.

Terra

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ForumGuru

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

"Emotional intelligence" is one of those terms that most of us think we know what it means. Personally, I don't know exactly what the term means. Maybe a good definition would make these discussions more productive.

You can find many definitions on the net but scientifically speaking...

Emotional intelligence represents an ability to validly reason with emotions and to use emotions to enhance thought.

A more formal definition is...

We define EI as the capacity to reason about emotions, and of emotions to enhance thinking. It includes the abilities to accurately perceive emotions, to access and generate emotions so as to assist thought, to understand emotions and emotional knowledge, and to reflectively regulate emotions so as to promote emotional and intellectual growth.

Here is another definition my colleagues and I have employed:

Emotional intelligence refers to an ability to recognize the meanings of emotion and their relationships, and to reason and problem-solve on the basis of them. Emotional intelligence is involved in the capacity to perceive emotions, assimilate emotion-related feelings, understand the information of those emotions, and manage them.

Emotional Intelligence

http://www.unh.edu/emotional_intelli...telligence.pdf

Payne is often attributed as the first to use the term in 1985, but it was used as far back as 1966 by Hanscarl Leuner.

Wayne Payne's Doctoral Dissertation about emotion and emotional intelligence

Further reading....

Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More...

The Wiki page talks about a bunch of stuff and it may be worth the read for some.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

Yeah, most of this stuff is referring to human emotional intelligence and that's one of the reasons why I linked the Cambridge paper earlier in the thread.

http://fcmconference.org/img/Cambrid...sciousness.pdf

Cheers

-don

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

"Emotional intelligence" is one of those terms that most of us think we know what it means. Personally, I don't know exactly what the term means. Maybe a good definition would make these discussions more productive.

See thats just it. Humans have a way of projecting their emotions and thoughts onto animals.. I don't deny that a Dog is happy to see you as one poor soul is trying to claim. I just think when we use the word happy it doesn't necessarily translate to our feeling of happiness that we are referencing as something the Dog is truly experiencing.

Meanwhile its become a discussion here in Discrats thread just because I answered Terrra's snarky oh its you so.....post.

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MissTerraK 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Meanwhile its become a discussion here in Discrats thread just because I answered Terrra's snarky oh its you so.....post.

Hahaha!

Are you rolling your/my r's as in Rrrruffles have rrridges?

Snarky? Who me? <feigns shock> Never!

Actually, yes, I have snark and know how to use it, only when it is necessary, of course.

Terra
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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sorry MissT but until you can put up more than a couple pictures as proof - Emotional intelligence" (your own words) is a HUMAN quality

Says who? Proof required.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Congratulations on the new house though!

Oh, well thanks!

Terra

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MissTerraK 11 years ago

Mike,

If this doesn't prove my point and if it doesn't draw a tear, then your heart is 10 times too small.

Dogs Mourning the Loss of a Friend Compilation...

Terra
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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Says who? Proof required.

Oh, well thanks!

Terra

Don't worry about it Terra. Mike went on a long rant down yonder in the SEO forum about the idiots in the OT forum and why would anyone even post here and blah blah blah. That thread got deleted by a mod, but it appears that he's had a change of heart and decided to "grace" the OT forum with his presence. Must be awful slow in SEO. lol.

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Don't worry about it Terra. Mike went on a long rant down yonder in the SEO forum about the idiots in the OT forum and why would anyone even post here and blah blah blah. That thread got deleted by a mod, but it appears that he's had a change of heart and decided to "grace" the OT forum with his presence. Must be awful slow in SEO. lol.

Well, aren't we the lucky ones.

Haha!

Terra

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Don't worry about it Terra. Mike went on a long rant down yonder in the SEO forum about the idiots in the OT forum and why would anyone even post here and blah blah blah. That thread got deleted by a mod,

Consistency is a remarkable quality even if it is always being wrong on the facts

http://www.warriorforum.com/suggesti...increased.html

Not in the SEO section
Not deleted by a mod
and no rant but a discussion between Discrat and myself

Like I said remarkable quality nevertheless.

P.S. Discrat encouraged me and I saw an NBA thread. Both signs of intelligent life hitherto undiscovered so here I am

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Consistency is a remarkable quality even if it is always being wrong on the facts

http://www.warriorforum.com/suggesti...increased.html

Not in the SEO section
Not deleted by a mod
and no rant but a discussion between Discrat and myself

Like I said remarkable quality nevertheless.

P.S. Discrat encouraged me and I saw an NBA thread. Both signs of intelligent life hitherto undiscovered so here I am

Sorry wrong thread. The thread that WAS deleted by a mod that you called everyone in OT idiots was in SEO ... It was a thread about some SEO guy who was jailed or something and you got your panties in a bunch because everyone was talking bad about him. Said they were a bunch of gossips and other derogatory names, like the people in OT. Then you went to go so far as to pontificate as to why anyone would even post here.

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Sorry wrong thread. The thread that WAS deleted by a mod that you called everyone in OT idiots was in SEO ... It was a thread about some SEO guy who was jailed or something and you got your panties in a bunch because everyone was talking bad about him. Said they were a bunch of gossips and other derogatory names, like the people in OT. Then you went to go so far as to pontificate as to why anyone would even post here.

Sorry still always wrong...you are trying desperately to imply it was deleted for a rant when in fact it was deleted because it was waaaay out of line and yes if anything more appropriate for the off topic forum because it was filed with hearsay, innuendos and accusations and conspiracy theory. NO rant whatsoever just a fact. try again

Meanwhile What you call getting panties in a bunch was me objecting to unverified character assassination of a person accused of something not convicted so as usual wrong and even on the wrong side of the issue as well.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sorry still always wrong...you are trying desperately to imply it was deleted for a rant when in fact it was deleted because it was waaaay out of line and yes if anything more appropriate for the off topic forum because it was filed with hearsay, innuendos and accusations and conspiracy theory. NO rant whatsoever just a fact. try again

Meanwhile What you call getting panties in a bunch was me objecting to unverified character assassination of a person accused of something not convicted so as usual wrong and even on the wrong side of the issue as well.

Actually I don't care why it was deleted. I didn't know the guy they were talking about and could care less about him. I wasn't on any side of the issue. I just took note of you disparaging people in OT and then who would have thunk it ... here you are.

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Mike Anthony 11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I just took note of you disparaging people in OT and then who would have thunk it ... here you are.

Oh I still think much the same...... the conspiracy theories in here are totally whack but like I said Discrat. TimP and a BBal forum were previous undiscovered signs of some merit . Met some more as well so I am here. Free board....at least it is nowadays
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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sorry MissT but until you can put up more than a couple pictures as proof - Emotional intelligence" (your own words) is a HUMAN quality

Congratulations on the new house though!

Hit your search button. This group has discussed scientific findings in animal intelligence and emotional IQ into the dirt. We already know the info. So Terra posts a cute little video of a an animal feeding another animal, and one teaching it's young and you have to lambast her?

Why is it we only see you when you are attacking someone for something? That's one that I'd like to see explained.

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

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HeySal

11 years ago

-

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I dunno you squint very hard when you look in other threads??? seeing as I am presently in the Bond thread, the NBA thread and several others. Still never met a stereotype you didn't like to manufacture eh Sal?

You' ll also have to forgive me if I don't fall over myself with your claims of having proven or knowing things. I've seen quite a few threads claiming the same on just about everything round these parts

.

Some people spend time learning. I'm not going to apologize for that. As far as animals are concerned - studying animal intelligence was part of my academic work. See my note to Steve above. If you can't handle that - I really could care less. I've written an ebook on dog intelligence if you can't get the info in this thread to hang together without drooling on everyone over it.

As far as your comments about how I am? Piss off with it. You lambast me for anything I say about anything. It's called dislike. I could be also just as juvenile as you and do a lot of tagging to make myself sound superior (such as your insistence on seeing me as bigoted every time I disagree with you) - but I don't really give enough of a rat's ass about you and what you think to really bother.

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

As far as your comments about how I am? Piss off with it. You lambast me for anything I say about anything. It's called dislike. I could be also just as juvenile as you and do a lot of tagging to make myself sound superior (such as your insistence on seeing me as bigoted every time I disagree with you) - but I don't really give enough of a rat's ass about you and what you think to really bother.

the sheer depth of you alleged superior education came through in your display of such an advanced vocabulary Sal. What can I say? or do? You seem to know my level of study without asking. Anyway your brilliance has compelled me to believe as you claim that my pet hamster has the equivalent emotional IQ as everyone here.

Forgive me if I am bored and think I shouldn't participate in derailing my friends thread further Since PETA rants were not really the subject of this thread and you are just about there now..

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

-

Some people spend time learning. I'm not going to apologize for that. As far as animals are concerned - studying animal intelligence was part of my academic work. See my note to Steve above. If you can't handle that - I really could care less. I've written an ebook on dog intelligence if you can't get the info in this thread to hang together without drooling on everyone over it.

As far as your comments about how I am? Piss off with it. You lambast me for anything I say about anything. It's called dislike. I could be also just as juvenile as you and do a lot of tagging to make myself sound superior (such as your insistence on seeing me as bigoted every time I disagree with you) - but I don't really give enough of a rat's ass about you and what you think to really bother.

For what it is worth, I never thought of a dog as some stupid robot or whatever.

Sometimes I see a dog do a "trick" and I think if a human were limited in the same physical ways, they would likely think of no better way to do such a "trick". You can't expect a dog to talk, or easily walk on two legs, or do some of the things we can SIMPLY because they don't have the physical ability. But HEY, humans sometimes treasure dogs for what THEY can do that WE can't!

And NOBODY is perfect, so nobody will agree with anyone 100% of the time. It doesn't matter what race, sex, age, creed, etc... you are. And frankly, I don't even care about "education". Look at J.G.! He thinks he is being so smart saying, to congress, "I DON'T KNOW", or "I WAS JUST BEING ARROGANT", etc... I won't say more about that, but he is a clear arrogant idiot, and an MIT PROFESSOR! That is nothing against you, or what you are saying, JUST SAYING!...

Steve

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

For what it is worth, I never thought of a dog as some stupid robot or whatever.

Sometimes I see a dog do a "trick" and I think if a human were limited in the same physical ways, they would likely think of no better way to do such a "trick". You can't expect a dog to talk, or easily walk on two legs, or do some of the things we can SIMPLY because they don't have the physical ability. But HEY, humans sometimes treasure dogs for what THEY can do that WE can't!

And NOBODY is perfect, so nobody will agree with anyone 100% of the time. It doesn't matter what race, sex, age, creed, etc... you are. And frankly, I don't even care about "education". Look at J.G.! He thinks he is being so smart saying, to congress, "I DON'T KNOW", or "I WAS JUST BEING ARROGANT", etc... I won't say more about that, but he is a clear arrogant idiot, and an MIT PROFESSOR! That is nothing against you, or what you are saying, JUST SAYING!...

Steve

I don't know what you're talking about in the last little part of that. I do know dogs, though. I train them for use of their upper cognitive functions.
There are things they don't "get" - such as pronouns. I've not seen any indication they understand pronouns. They can understand one huge amount of words, word strings, and are able to build categorical referencing and inference systems.

What they can't do - and will never be able to do is form words - and that is a limit of their physical apparatus, not their intellect. This is not much different than the Neanderthal, who were limited in their spoken language capabilities because of the physical structure of their vocal chords. It's thought in at least one scientific circle (maybe all, I don't know) that they went extinct because they couldn't keep up with modern human spoken communication diversity levels.

I can take one example of dog inference ability from my book here.

When out with Munch when he was a little pup, I would get his attention, look at the sky and tell him "we're losing daylight". Then I would turn and start heading back to the rig/camp. It took awhile for me to be able to teach him enough that his inference system kicked in, but by the time that dog was 3, when we were out and it was starting to get late, he would come up to me, chuff a little bit (growly type utterance) and then look around at the sky, and turn back to the car/camp. If I didn't follow, he'd sit and look at me until I looked at him again, and he'd get up and continue toward the car - insistent on getting back. Turns out his sense of time was actually more accurate than mine, too. I sometimes would get interested in some rocks and it would get a little too dark before I reached the rig. Munchie always got us back on time to get be able to see the way clearly and to build a fire before it got too dark to gather the kindling.

This is only one example of animals using upper cognitive functions. The world is filled with millions.

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NRabosa

11 years ago

probably driven by her emotions, I guess.

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Dan Riffle

11 years ago

Can you hear that? Just faintly, I can hear the insignificant songs of a pair of love birds.

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Claude Whitacre 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Can you hear that? Just faintly, I can hear the insignificant songs of a pair of love birds.

To me...it was music....beautiful music.
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seasoned

11 years ago

SORRY, I had just read a post about:

Texas Teacher Resigns After

And I guess I got them mixed up. YEAH, I don't like either group doing it, but my comments still stand.

Steve

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ForumGuru

Banned 11 years ago

This is an interesting related read:

On this day of July 7, 2012, a prominent international group of cognitive neuroscientists,
neuropharmacologists, neurophysiologists, neuroanatomists and computational neuroscientists
gathered at The University of Cambridge to reassess the neurobiological substrates of conscious
experience and related behaviors in human and non-human animals.

We declare the following: “The absence of a neocortex does not appear to preclude an organism from
experiencing affective states. Convergent evidence indicates that non-human animals have the
neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with
the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that
humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Nonhuman animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.

http://fcmconference.org/img/Cambrid...sciousness.pdf

Cheers

-don

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seasoned

11 years ago

I ALMOST posted a video this morning, but I didn't see enough to validate the claim. It concerns two dogs.

One was sleeping, and twitching as dogs dreaming way do. When it yelped a couple times, the SECOND came up to lie on it, etc... The claim was the second one wanted to wake up the first from a nightmare. Anyway, dogs DO have fear, guilt, ties, etc....

Steve

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Electrical

11 years ago

I'm not sure, did someone actually say that animals don't have feelings? I guess you would have to be a pretty big a-hole to never have a dog happy or excited to see you or sad when you leave.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Electrical

I'm not sure, did someone actually say that animals don't have feelings? I guess you would have to be a pretty big a-hole to never have a dog happy or excited to see you or sad when you leave.

My dog and I have long, complex conversations. He shows annoyance, disdain, agitation, humility, happiness, disapproval and plays a mean game of chess. He also chooses which channel we watch on TV.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Electrical

I'm not sure, did someone actually say that animals don't have feelings? I guess you would have to be a pretty big a-hole to never have a dog happy or excited to see you or sad when you leave.

My AUNT actually said that about her pet that she loved for so long. I EASILY proved her wrong, as far as I was concerned, with a little ball! The dog OBVIOUSLY showed expectation, joy, spatial logic, anticipation, hesitation, and annoyance. My aunt wouldn't accept it.

Steve

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

My AUNT actually said that about her pet that she loved for so long. I EASILY proved her wrong, as far as I was concerned, with a little ball! The dog OBVIOUSLY showed expectation, joy, spatial logic, anticipation, hesitation, and annoyance. My aunt wouldn't accept it.

Steve

Dogs are extremely emotional animals, however, the animal with the highest emotional IQ is probably the elephant. Their emotional IQ is probably actually stronger than humans from what I have seen.

I'm not sure how people in this day and age can be so blind (or uneducated about scientific testing) to think animals have no emotion. Hook them up to a machine that measures human emotional output, such as hormone release, and you get the same readings. Instinct does not work without emotion, either. It's the emotion of fear that sets off flight or fight instinct. It's emotion that tells the animal (including humans) what is safe and what is not, and incidentally means that emotion is also included in learning process.

The only rationale that I can find for someone in 2014 denying that animals do not have emotional IQ's equivalent to our own would be because then they would have to face how they either treat, or allow animals to be treated. Ask a factory farmer if animals "feel" -- and then watch their cows bay for days after their calves are ripped away from them. Human species-centricism is a very, very selfish, stupid, and outdated concept.

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I'm not sure how people in this day and age can be so blind (or uneducated about scientific testing) to think animals have no emotion. Hook them up to a machine that measures human emotional output, such as hormone release, and you get the same readings.

I don't know how anyone with any education on the science of the brain
can claim that because of similar hormone release animals have the same sense of what humans would call feelings. Words have meanings determined by usage and when human's refer to these feeling it is far and away no matter how you try and fudge the scientific knowledge not a given they relate to the same experience of feeling human's refer to. With a few exceptions we do have the superior brain structures to most of them.

Instinct does not work without emotion, either. It's the emotion of fear that sets off flight or fight instinct

You are falling off the rails as usual when you claim superiority of scientific education. Instinct and intelligence are two different things. Flight instinct does NOT equate to emotional intelligence. You stretched a point until it broke.

The only rationale that I can find for someone in 2014 denying that animals do not have emotional IQ's equivalent to our own

and there we have it. not only can animals feel but as it was always going to end up they have emotional IQs EQUIVALENT to our own. Can a near political argument be coming?

human centricism is a very, very selfish, stupid, and outdated concept.

Yes we are right at the doorstep.

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whateverpedia

11 years ago

Steve

Dogs do talk in their own way. I'm currently dog-sitting my parents pooch and he communicates in different ways for different things.

When he wants a door opened for him in the house he just sits in front of the door and growls.

When he wants to go out into the back yard, he sits in front of the door and barks.

When he wants something to eat he whines.

When he just wants a back rub he licks my hand.

All of that may not be talking per se, however it is definitely communicating.

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Karen Blundell

11 years ago

to get back to the OP's topic -

"seemingly" smart people sometimes do idiotic things because no one is perfect - We all have bad days, we all can have melt-downs - it happens to the best and the worst of us.

Was she stupid to post what she did on Facebook? - yep -

but it's no worse that what gets posted in here by some of us sometimes - I know there are lots of things I've posted that I wish I hadn't -
again, I'm human. I make mistakes - so does everyone else.

I'm sad for this woman - she obviously had one of those melt-downs - too bad now the media is having a field day with her - but you all know as well as I do that in a few months time no one will remember her name, because everyone will have found someone else to hate on.

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Cali16

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

"seemingly" smart people sometimes do idiotic things because no one is perfect - We all have bad days, we all can have melt-downs - it happens to the best and the worst of us.

Excellent post, Karen. If more people would remember this, there'd be a lot more compassion and a lot less hate.

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

I've done a little research into Emotional Intelligence. The most universal description seems to be;

Emotional intelligence is the ability to monitor one's own and other people's emotions, to discriminate between different emotions and label them appropriately, and to use emotional information to guide thinking and behavior

So, personally, I don't think it's a part of intelligence. I think it's emotion, and recognizing the emotions of others....almost as a language. This may color intelligence...shape decisions. But I think rational thinking is separate from Emotional Intelligence. And...a certain psychopath, and some autistics are still intelligent, but have trouble understanding and relating to emotions in others.....and responding in kind. So, I think it's a separate process.

Can animals discern emotions, understand their meaning, and act on that information? Dogs can. A dog knows when you are upset, happy, angry.....but then

We created dogs from wolves. For thousands of years, we bred them to accept us, to want to please us, to recognize facial cues...they were bred to work with us. In fact, it could be argued that a dog's entire make up is designed to be our friend and helper. How could they not love us? How could we not love them?

So maybe dogs are a singular example. We know that mammals feel for their young....communicate with each other. But is it emotional intelligence? Maybe. Maybe not.

But why do smart people do stupid things? Karen had a good answer, although put more poetically than I would.

I think it's because the stupid things they say and do, have nothing to do with their intelligence. It has something to do with their emotional attachment to their viewpoint.

It's why we can have several very intelligent people, here on the forum, completely disagree..and get snippy with each other. It isn't whether they are smart. It's whether they are emotionally attached to their view.

That's a guess.

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Frank Donovan

11 years ago

Every creature on the planet experiences the world in a unique way. It's a little unfair for us to invent a term and use it to measure other animals. We're writing the rules for a game they don't even know they're playing.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Can animals discern emotions, understand their meaning, and act on that information? Dogs can. A dog knows when you are upset, happy, angry.....but then
<snip>
So maybe dogs are a singular example. We know that mammals feel for their young....communicate with each other. But is it emotional intelligence? Maybe. Maybe not.

If dogs have learned to understand and react to human emotions because of long years of close contact, it seems logical that other animals would have the ability to detect and use emotions within their own species. It would probably be a more useful trait for animals that live in packs or herds.

But why do smart people do stupid things? Karen had a good answer, although put more poetically than I would.

I think it's because the stupid things they say and do, have nothing to do with their intelligence. It has something to do with their emotional attachment to their viewpoint.

Very astute. I think I agree - although I'm not emotionally attached to that view.

.

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lanfear63

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I've done a little research into Emotional Intelligence. The most universal description seems to be;

Emotional intelligence is the ability to monitor one's own and other people's emotions, to discriminate between different emotions and label them appropriately, and to use emotional information to guide thinking and behavior

So, personally, I don't think it's a part of intelligence. I think it's emotion, and recognizing the emotions of others....almost as a language. This may color intelligence...shape decisions. But I think rational thinking is separate from Emotional Intelligence. And...a certain psychopath, and some autistics are still intelligent, but have trouble understanding and relating to emotions in others.....and responding in kind. So, I think it's a separate process.

Can animals discern emotions, understand their meaning, and act on that information? Dogs can. A dog knows when you are upset, happy, angry.....but then

We created dogs from wolves. For thousands of years, we bred them to accept us, to want to please us, to recognize facial cues...they were bred to work with us. In fact, it could be argued that a dog's entire make up is designed to be our friend and helper. How could they not love us? How could we not love them?

So maybe dogs are a singular example. We know that mammals feel for their young....communicate with each other. But is it emotional intelligence? Maybe. Maybe not.

But why do smart people do stupid things? Karen had a good answer, although put more poetically than I would.

I think it's because the stupid things they say and do, have nothing to do with their intelligence. It has something to do with their emotional attachment to their viewpoint.

It's why we can have several very intelligent people, here on the forum, completely disagree..and get snippy with each other. It isn't whether they are smart. It's whether they are emotionally attached to their view.

That's a guess.

Spock, that was a great post and I pretty much agree with all of it.

Emotions are really a hindrance to intelligence and reasoning period. You should never become emotionally attached to a viewpoint and argue for it with said emotions. That can give a distorted perspective/s

We all have emotions to a greater or lesser degree but really, their main purpose is for the procreation of the species for the most part and are tied in with instinct and survival. They are biochemical manifestations of our bodies.

Art and beauty are all emotionally based. Creating music is emotional, writing stories is emotional. Their are many other examples.

Without emotions, the above examples would not exist. Is that a good or bad thing. Nope, neither. We would have never have thought to have done them. They would have no function.

Does creativity tie in with emotion. No again. Something can be made to be functional and well designed to suit a need without having non clashing colors or being pleasing to the eye. that's just an emotional response or need.

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discrat

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

but it's no worse that what gets posted in here by some of us sometimes - I know there are lots of things I've posted that I wish I hadn't -
again, I'm human. I make mistakes - so does everyone else.

Yes Karen I agree to a certain extent, but I think that if your career in College Education were in jeopardy YOU (from what I gather) as well as many others here in OT would be 'smart' enough to take a step back and rethink your assertions before posting them

I guess the stupid and idiotic reference I make is based on the fact of how could someone like a College Professor go onto such a HUGE public platform and not have enough common sense and self control to realize this very thing could happen.

This is nothing new as far as people getting called out for being a reckless blabbermouth on social media and losing jobs, positions etc..because of it !

Sorry, but I have zilch empathy for her at all.

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Cali16

11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

I guess the stupid and idiotic reference I make is based on the fact of how could someone like a College Professor go onto such a HUGE public platform and not have enough common sense and self control to realize this very thing could happen.

I understand where you're coming from, Robert. But I think the real clue is here: this occurred in a "heated Facebook exchange". While the article provides little context, I suspect she got carried away in a heated argument (just as many do here in the OT) and essentially forgot that "the microphone was still on", so to speak.

People can get very passionate in heated debates - their emotions take over - and they often say things they later deeply regret. They can become temporarily oblivious to who's watching, listening, or paying attention. Unfortunately, this was a very public platform and now her words are out there and she can't take them back. Was it foolish? Yes. Is she going to regret that glaring faux pas for the rest of her life? Probably - or at least for quite some time to come.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Steve

Dogs do talk in their own way. I'm currently dog-sitting my parents pooch and he communicates in different ways for different things.

When he wants a door opened for him in the house he just sits in front of the door and growls.

When he wants to go out into the back yard, he sits in front of the door and barks.

When he wants something to eat he whines.

When he just wants a back rub he licks my hand.

All of that may not be talking per se, however it is definitely communicating.

Sorry, I thought I covered everything. I meant talk like PEOPLE. Yeah, every animal has a way to communicate that it can do. and dogs can communicate much like human babies can. Don't expect them to talk in chinese or even simple english though. I guess they COULD roughly approximate some english. Even THAT is pushing it though.

Steve

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Time and time again, I witness confirmation that people are not uniformly smart (unless designing uniforms is what they do, that is). I know I'm not. I know I've always been careful not to post something on Internet that could come back to haunt me.

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Why 'seemingly' smart people do such idiotic things ??

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