Prince Andrew: Did He or Didn't He?

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Prince Andrew: Did He or Didn't He?

I don't know (natch) ... but what on Earth was he thinking of, allowing a photo like that to be taken of himself, with his arm around the not-well-covered waistline of a 17-year-old girl?! It's not exactly easy to be "full of sympathy" for him, is it?!

Other UK newspapers have (of course) been covering the story a little less sensationally and more factually than the Daily Fail, but whatever actually happened, it certainly isn't going to play well for him in the media.

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rondo

11 years ago

I don't know, but her book is gonna be a hit.

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Richard Van

11 years ago

Originally Posted by rondo

I don't know, but her book is gonna be a hit.

Yup and it looks like the first draft is in action already.

Prince Andrew's 'sex slave' Virginia Roberts 'is writing a tell-all memoir' | Daily Mail Online

Interestingly, her Father said she'd met the Queen and was even keen to point out how excited her daughter was about this but he has now decided to retract that statement. Rather oddly.

MailOnline understands that Miss Roberts, whose father has retracted claims she met the Queen, could publish the book this year, which means the scandal shows no sign of abating for the royal family.

One more point. The caring Father - where was he as she was handed about as an under age sex slave, as he is about now to help talk about events he later retracts?

Interesting case.

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seasoned

11 years ago

What's wrong with a friend, relative, or even a celebrity asked to do so, holding a young woman like that, midriff and all? It is VERY common for the midriff to show today, by the way!

I don't know if it is the same in britain, but in the US, if they had sex, he would STILL be considered a RAPIST! The other stuff is improper also. Royalty is supposed to STAY AWAY from such things.

I imagine a number of people said they met the queen, but WHO KNOWS? Maybe she DID! OBVIOUSLY, she met the prince! I mean if he were a look alike, and didn't come forward, he COULD be in serious trouble.

Steve

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Lucian Lada

11 years ago

Regardless of if he did it or not, it's clear that the chick tries to make money off the prince. I mean, why work hard to make a living when you can cover yourself in sh*t for good money?

Also, a sex slave? I bet she loved it. Just look at her smile.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I don't know (natch) ... but what on Earth was he thinking of, allowing a photo like that to be taken of himself, with his arm around the not-well-covered waistline of a 17-year-old girl?! It's not exactly easy to be "full of sympathy" for him, is it?!

You're absolutely right: he should have slapped his wiener on her face, instead. I bet she would have loved that, too.

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BigFrank Banned 11 years ago

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WalkingCarpet

Banned 11 years ago

Course he did. Royalty think they can anything an get away with it.

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garyv

11 years ago

It doesn't matter if he did or not. The media has already come out with a guilty verdict. That's all it takes now days.

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ThomM 11 years ago

Here's a little more.
Bill Clinton drawn into Prince Andrew sex scandal | Stuff.co.nz
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- whateverpedia 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ThomM
  
  Here's a little more.
  Bill Clinton drawn into Prince Andrew sex scandal | Stuff.co.nz
  
  I suppose it isn't really a sex scandal unless Bill Clinton's involved.
  
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Karen Blundell 11 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

It doesn't matter if he did or not. The media has already come out with a guilty verdict. That's all it takes now days.

yup - it's quite sickening isn't it?
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Emailrevealer 11 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

It doesn't matter if he did or not. The media has already come out with a guilty verdict. That's all it takes now days.

Actually the Florida court came out with a guilty verdict when Epstein pled guilty. There's no question that the girl in the pic is a victim of sexual abuse. She was placed there in the arms of Any by the convicted sex offender.
She claims Andy abused her as well and she has to be considered a credible witness because theres a conviction based on her being victimized. Actually two convictions if you include the butler.
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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Court documents show Clinton was one of many high-profile friends of Epstein to visit his private island and fly on his jet, and that Epstein's phone directory showed he had 21 phone numbers for Clinton or his aides.

The documents suggest no wrong-doing on Clinton's behalf, but they have set off speculation – particularly on the part of conservative online media – about the potential impact of the scandal on Hillary Clinton's presumed run for the White House."Bubba and the Palm Beach Pedophile" screams a headline on the Drudge Report

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Kay King

11 years ago

It's nothing to me. I always wonder if a very important/visible/wealthy man wants to have a sex kitten on the side (or a bunch of them)...

WHY don't they show some common sense when they pick those partners? I think as little of the women who play and then tell as I do of the men who play with them.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's nothing to me. I always wonder if a very important/visible/wealthy man wants to have a sex kitten on the side (or a bunch of them)...

WHY don't they show some common sense when they pick those partners? I think as little of the women who play and then tell as I do of the men who play with them.

You ever see "king ralph"? FUNNY MOVIE! It shows how weird this can get. The first guy in line for the throne doesn't feel he deserves the throne, and apparently nobody realizes he is next in line, and the next person in england that is in line should certainly NEVER have it, so he goes to america to get a raunchy american that is second in line.

ANYWAY, the THIRD in line, that thinks he is second, gets a hooker to date ralph!

He didn't care what she was, and didn't check.

IIRC, it ends well. The FIRST guy is exposed as being merely too humble, and becomes king. The third guy(Who WAS in parliament ) gets locked up, and ralph gets a stipend and lives happily ever after, with his new wife

, after shocking everyone by lining up a good deal.

Steve

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Alexa Smith Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

You ever see "king ralph"? FUNNY MOVIE!

Ooooh, yes - John Goodman, very entertaining!

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Court documents show Clinton was one of many high-profile friends of Epstein to visit his private island and fly on his jet, and that Epstein's phone directory showed he had 21 phone numbers for Clinton or his aides.

The documents suggest no wrong-doing on Clinton's behalf,

If it were anyone else, but clinton, people would SCREAM ******BULL ....******* Is clinton related to that guy by close blood, like is he a brother or father? NO!?!?!?!? Then WHY does the guy have SO many ways to reach him? Is he some congress leader, like bohner or reid? CLEARLY the guy is a VERY VERY VERY close friend, or supplier of some sort, or something like a beloved lobbyist. However you slice it, it suggests wrong doing of SOME sort.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

If it were anyone else, but clinton, people would SCREAM ******BULL ....******* Is clinton related to that guy by close blood, like is he a brother or father? NO!?!?!?!? Then WHY does the guy have SO many ways to reach him? Is he some congress leader, like bohner or reid? CLEARLY the guy is a VERY VERY VERY close friend, or supplier of some sort, or something like a beloved lobbyist. However you slice it, it suggests wrong doing of SOME sort.

Steve

The contact numbers are for him and his staff, not just him, but who cares? He knows him, as do many famous people, none of whom are in the big ole headlines on the Dreggs Report.

What attracted Clinton to Epstein was quite simple: He had a plane (he has a couple, in fact -- the Boeing 727, in which he took Clinton to Africa, and, for shorter jaunts, a black Gulfstream, a Cessna 421, and a helicopter to ferry him from his island to St. Thomas). Clinton had organized a weeklong tour of South Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, Rwanda, and Mozambique to do what Clinton does. So when the president's advance man Doug Band pitched the idea to Epstein, he said sure. As an added bonus, Kevin Spacey, a close friend of Clinton's, and actor Chris Tucker came along for the ride.

While Epstein got an intellectual kick out of engaging African finance ministers in theoretical chitchat about economic development, the real payoff for him was observing Clinton in his métier: talking HIV/aids policy with African leaders and soaking up the love from Cape Town to Lagos.

Epstein, who paid teenage girls for naked massages at his Palm Beach, Florida mansion, is a convicted sex offender whose circle of powerful friends has included financiers, celebrities, politicians, and scientists.

Scientists whose research Epstein funded also back the billionaire, writes Alexandra Wolfe.

On the evening of December 2nd, 2010, a handful of America's media and entertainment elite--including TV anchors Katie Couric and George Stephanopoulos, comedienne Chelsea Handler, and director Woody Allen--convened around the dinner table of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. It wasn't just any dining room, but part of a sprawling nine-story townhouse that once housed an entire preparatory school. And it wasn't just any sex offender, but an enigmatic billionaire who had once flown the likes of former President Bill Clinton and former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak around the world on his own Boeing 727. Last spring, Epstein completed a 13-month sentence for soliciting prostitution from a minor in Palm Beach. Now he was hosting a party for his close friend, Britain's Prince Andrew, fourth in line to the throne.

But at the time, this particular swath of Epstein's elite Rolodex had no idea that the feted royal would soon renounce Epstein as a friend, nor that the royal's ex-wife, Duchess of York Sarah Ferguson, would hysterically apologize for letting Epstein pay off some of her debts.

He had monarchy in-house and famous faces at his table. Former Bear Stearns CEO James Cayne had just endorsed Epstein on his science foundation's website (which has been since removed). It seemed Epstein had joined the ranks of former President Clinton, director Roman Polanski, and former New York Governor Eliot Spitzer

"I've never condoned paying for sex, but if the young lady lied about her age it's her own fault," explained one socialite, who along with hedge-fund manager Wilbur Ross and real-estate magnate Leon Black hobnobbed with Epstein at a Southampton movie screening just two months after his release from "community control" in Florida.

Much of Epstein's entrée into New York society can be credited to Ghislaine Maxwell, the superbly well-connected daughter of the late press magnate Robert Maxwell. Epstein started dating her in the 1990s.

The crowd at the events top publicist Peggy Siegal has organized for Epstein proves the point, at least behind closed doors. "I and many others that know him describe him as brilliant," says Siegal. "His unique mind is what attracts the world's smartest people to his home." Last September, with Siegal's help, Epstein hosted a Break Fast after Yom Kippur. A group of 120 friends brought their children over for a buffet dinner. One attendee, Jonathan Farkas, a New York real-estate heir, has known Epstein for 35 years and visited him while he was in prison.

"From a cerebral and business side he's worshipped," says socialite Debbie Bancroft. "He's incredibly charming and handsome.

Renowned scientists whose research Epstein has generously funded through the years also stand by him. Professor Lawrence Krauss, a theoretical physicist and author of Quantum Man, has planned scientific conferences with Epstein in St. Thomas and remained close with him throughout his incarceration.

Perhaps most disturbing, in terms of possible sex trafficking, was Epstein's relationship with Jean Luc Brunel, owner of the MC2 modeling agency. Brunel is a 50-plus French playboy who was formerly part owner of Karin, a Paris-based modeling agency. He lives in New York and South Beach, Florida, and owns 85 percent of MC2, which has offices in New York, Miami, and Tel Aviv. (The remaining 15 percent is owned by his partner, Jeff Fuller.) Brunel has been observed as a house guest at Epstein's Palm Beach home and may well have had contact with him also in New York, where Epstein owns a lavish home, and in Paris, where Epstein keeps an apartment on elegant Ave. Foch.

An American fashion designer who booked her girls through MC2 says they were very young and very beautiful; many were from Eastern Europe and spoke little English. A former bookkeeper in the agency's Miami office, who also arranged visas for girls traveling to the U.S., confirmed that MC2 girls became frequent guests on Epstein's private jets.

Wexner declines to talk about his relationship with Epstein, but it is clearly one that continues to this day. Not that it helped Epstein in any way to land Clinton. Wexner is a staunch Republican donor, and Epstein, aside from a small contribution to the president's legal-defense fund, has given more to the likes of former senator Al D'Amato.

Epstein brings a trophy-hunter's zeal to his collection of scientists and politicians. But the real charge for him is in seeing these guys work it. Like former Democratic Senate leader George Mitchell, for example. In Epstein's mind, Mitchell is the world's greatest negotiator, based on his work in Ireland and the Middle East. So he wrote the senator a bunch of checks. Says Mitchell: "He has supported some philanthropic projects of mine and organized a fund-raiser for me once. I would certainly call him a friend and a supporter."

But it is his covey of scientists that inspires Epstein's true rapture. Epstein spends $20 million a year on them -- encouraging them to engage in whatever kind of cutting-edge research might attract their fancy. They are, of course, quite lavish in their praise in return. Gerald Edelman won the Nobel Prize for physiology and medicine in 1972 and now presides over the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla. "Jeff is extraordinary in his ability to pick up on quantitative relations," says Edelman. "He came to see us recently. He is concerned with this basic question: Is it true that the brain is not a computer? He is very quick."

Then there is Stephen Kosslyn, a psychologist at Harvard. Epstein flew up to Kosslyn's laboratory in Cambridge this year to witness an experiment that Kosslyn was conducting and Epstein was funding. Namely: Is it true that certain Tibetan monks are capable of holding a distinct mental image in their minds for twenty minutes straight? "We disproved the thesis," says Kosslyn. "Jeff was on his cell phone most of the time -- he actually wanted to short the Tibetan market, because he thought the monk was so stupid. He is amazing. Like a honeybee -- he talks to all these different people and cross-pollinates. Just two months ago, I was talking to him about a new alternative to evolutionary psychology. He got excited and sent me a check."

Epstein has a particularly close relationship with Martin Nowak, an Austrian biology and mathematics professor who heads the theoretical-biology program at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton. Nowak is examining how game theory can be used to answer some of the basic evolutionary questions -- e.g., why, in our Darwinian society, does altruistic behavior exist? Epstein talks to Nowak about once a week and flies him around the country to his various homes to deliver impromptu lectures. Over the past three years, he has written $500,000 worth of checks to fund Nowak's research. This past February, Epstein had Nowak over for dinner at the 71st Street townhouse. It was just the two of them (not including the wait staff), and Nowak, making use of a blackboard in the formal dining room, delivered a two-hour highly mathematical description of how language works.

After dinner, Epstein asked if Nowak wanted to meet up with his new friend President Clinton, and off they went to a nearby deli, where Clinton regaled the starstruck former Oxford professor with tales from his own Oxford days. "Jeffrey has the mind of a physicist. It's like talking to a colleague in your field," says Nowak. "Sometimes he applies what we talk about to his investments. Sometimes it's for his own curiosity. He has changed my life. Because of his support, I feel I can do anything I want."

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Court documents show Clinton was one of many high-profile friends of Epstein to visit his private island and fly on his jet, and that Epstein's phone directory showed he had 21 phone numbers for Clinton or his aides.

The documents suggest no wrong-doing on Clinton's behalf, but they have set off speculation - particularly on the part of conservative online media - about the potential impact of the scandal on Hillary Clinton's presumed run for the White House."Bubba and the Palm Beach Pedophile" screams a headline on the Drudge Report

Keep in mind Epstein in 2008 was convicted of soliciting an underage girl for prostitution, and is a registered sex offender. So yeah when someone like that has 21 different phone numbers for Clinton there will be speculation.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Keep in mind Epstein in 2008 was convicted of soliciting an underage girl for prostitution, and is a registered sex offender. So yeah when someone like that has 21 different phone numbers for Clinton there will be speculation.

The only speculation it conjures up for me is that Epstein didn't delete his electronic contacts after Clinton cut ties with him in 2005. Clinton's ties to him were primarily linked to his trip to Africa in 2002, where Epstein provided his Boeing 727 to Clinton and Kevin Spacey.

It appears, however, the former president cut ties with Mr. Epstein in 2005 -- shortly after he was arrested for receiving an "erotic massage" from a minor-aged girl, court documents indicated, the Post reported. But prior to cutting those ties, Mr. Clinton "frequently flew" on Mr. Epstein's private jet with him, between the years of 2002 and 2005, The Smoking Gun website reported.

It also conjures up speculation as to why the Dreggs Report did not also headline every other famous person who has been a friend or associate of Epstein, including the scientific community to which he donated millions .... many of which never did cut ties with him at all and maintained their friendship with him throughout his jail term and thereafter.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

The only speculation it conjures up for me is that Epstein didn't delete his electronic contacts after Clinton cut ties with him in 2005. Clinton's ties to him were primarily linked to his trip to Africa in 2002, where Epstein provided his Boeing 727 to Clinton and Kevin Spacey.

It also conjures up speculation as to why the Dreggs Report did not also headline every other famous person who has been a friend or associate of Epstein, including the scientific community to which he donated millions .... many of which never did cut ties with him at all and maintained their friendship with him throughout his jail term and thereafter.

How many of those in the scientific community where a former famous president with a wife potentially running for the office herself? Do you think if he had bush's or any other past presidents numbers it wouldn't have been in the news?
Then you have clinton's reputation with the ladies.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

How many of those in the scientific community where a former famous president with a wife potentially running for the office herself? Do you think if he had bush's or any other past presidents numbers it wouldn't have been in the news?
Then you have clinton's reputation with the ladies.

... and that is exactly what that is about, since they couldn't really find any dirt on Clinton in regards to Epstein, they imply it because Epstein knows Clinton and Clinton knows Epstein ... Hillary being a candidate. So Epstein has Clinton's contact numbers. I doubt that this revelation will do anything other than make conservative media look desperate and foolish.

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

... and that is exactly what that is about, since they couldn't really find any dirt on Clinton in regards to Epstein, they imply it because Epstein knows Clinton and Clinton knows Epstein ... Hillary being a candidate. So Epstein has Clinton's contact numbers. I doubt that this revelation will do anything other than make conservative media look desperate and foolish.

I don't doubt that a lot of sleazy crap is being hidden and swept away from the public eye. Would it be s major surprise if the Clintons were part of it? This leakage here and elsewhere (eg exposure of vile pedofiles and perverts protected in past UK government) suggests some holes wearing away at the fabric. Interesting times are ahead.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

... and that is exactly what that is about, since they couldn't really find any dirt on Clinton in regards to Epstein, they imply it because Epstein knows Clinton and Clinton knows Epstein ... Hillary being a candidate. So Epstein has Clinton's contact numbers. I doubt that this revelation will do anything other than make conservative media look desperate and foolish.

Right so instead everything should be kept quiet.
And like I said if it was any other former president do you think the exact same thing wouldn't happen? I guess if it was Bush the liberal media wouldn't say a word, right?

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Right so instead everything should be kept quiet.
And like I said if it was any other former president do you think the exact same thing wouldn't happen? I guess if it was Bush the liberal media wouldn't say a word, right?

Say a word about what? Cover what up? It's an address book, and the accuser ...

But Roberts made no suggestion of sexual relations with Prince Andrew or with Clinton, the Mail reported. Similarly, there is no suggestion of anything salacious with any of the Palm Beachers listed among the money manager's contacts.

Other high-profile names in Epstein's book include Special Envoy for Middle East Peace George Mitchell, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, Barbara Walters, Alec Baldwin, Ralph Fiennes, George Hamilton, Dustin Hoffman, Kevin Spacey, Liz Hurley, Lauren Hutton, Janice Dickinson, Naomi Campbell, Christy Turlington, Henry Kissinger, Joan Rivers, Courtney Love, Mick Jagger, Cornelia Guest, Phil Collins, Itzhak Perlman, Simon LeBon, Charlie Rose, Richard Branson, playwright Candace Bushnell, designers Tom Ford and Vera Wang, soap opera actress Nadia Bjorlin and erotic film star Koo Stark, who once dated Prince Andrew.

Among the high-powered Palm Beachers listed in the money manager's address book are Catherine and Fred Adler, Samantha and Serena Boardman, Jimmy and Jane Buffett, Pepe Fanjul, Conrad and Barbara Black, Gerry Goldsmith, Marjorie Gubelman, Dana Hammond, David Koch, Henry Kravis, Frayda and George Lindemann Sr., Bob and Todd Meister, Alfred Taubman, Stanley, Bea and Brett Tollman, and Martin Trust.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Say a word about what? Cover what up? It's an address book, and the accuser ...

Did I accuse Clinton of anything? Nope. I simply supplied a link showing Clinton associated with a person convicted of having sex with a minor and who is a registered sex offender and he's being questioned on what he knows. With Clinton admitting he cheated on his wife while president I think that's worth being aware of. Clinton was hanging with this guy while he was having sex with minors, I think that is worthy of the investigation. If the investigation revels Clinton had no knowledge of his actions, fine.
Like I said (and you keep on ignoring) if it was Bush the liberal media would be all over this story.
Now I don't like either of those guys and think they both where crappy presidents. But don't blame the conservative media for doing the same thing the liberal media would of done if the shoe was on a different foot.

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MikeAmbrosio 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

With Clinton admitting he cheated on his wife while president I think that's worth being aware of.

Geez, just ONE illicit BJ in the Oval Office and you're labeled for life!
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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Did I accuse Clinton of anything? Nope. I simply supplied a link showing Clinton associated with a person convicted of having sex with a minor and who is a registered sex offender and he's being questioned on what he knows. With Clinton admitting he cheated on his wife while president I think that's worth being aware of.

To answer your liberal media question, I rather think that they would want more than the fact that Clinton, along with 97 other pages of rich, powerful people was included in someone's electronic rolodex, especially since they have found no evidence of wrongdoing.

As for his sex life outside of marriage, I've always considered that between his wife and him and she still seems to like him a lot, as do many people.

No, if I were the liberal media, I'd be digging into how a pedophile with serious charges against him got such a sweetheart deal. Jeb Bush was governor of Florida from 1999 to 2007, a time when Jeffrey Epstein was active in Florida.

According to official documents, Epstein's attorney Jay Lefkowitz - a former deputy director of domestic policy at the White House under George W Bush - sent a one-line email to the US Attorney's Office on September 24, 2007: 'Please do whatever you can to keep this from becoming public'.

On November 29, 2007, Lefkowitz called for more secrecy in a letter to the Florida state attorney: 'We don't understand the basis for your Office's belief that it is appropriate for any letter to be sent to these individuals at this stage - before Mr Epstein has either entered a plea or been sentenced.'

Lefkowitz disputed the suggestion that the victims had the right to be heard at any plea or sentencing, adding: 'Encouraging these individuals to participate in the state sentencing will have the effect of creating a media frenzy that will surely impact the sentence Mr Epstein received - precisely what your Office promised to avoid.'

Andrew may be entitled to diplomatic immunity against questioning in any criminal inquiry because some of the allegations relate to when he was a Whitehall-sanctioned business envoy.

Diplomatic immunity provides foreign diplomats protection from legal action in the country where they work. It is granted depending on an individual's rank and the level of immunity they need to carry out their duties.

But diplomats are still expected to follow the laws of their host countries. In the US, several levels of immunity protecting foreign diplomats from legal action are granted. Extradition lawyer Karen Todner, who represented computer hacker Gary McKinnon, said the prince could simply ignore any request to give evidence.

'If proceedings are civil, extradition [law] does not apply, so he can just refuse to go,' she said.

He could be compelled to give evidence 'only in criminal proceedings', she added. If he refused to co-operate, however, the prince could be banned from entering the US.

It is not known whether Andrew might be covered by legal immunity simply by being a royal because this has never been tested in international law.

Critics claim the deal was a scandalous cover-up - supported by the political establishment - to protect Epstein and his influential circle of friends. R Alexander Acosta, the US Attorney for Southern Florida, who signed off on the non-prosecution agreement, has told of the aggressive tactics employed.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

To answer your liberal media question, I rather think that they would want more than the fact that Clinton, along with 97 other pages of rich, powerful people was included in someone's electronic rolodex, especially since they have found no evidence of wrongdoing.

As for his sex life outside of marriage, I've always considered that between his wife and him and she still seems to like him a lot, as do many people.

No, if I were the liberal media, I'd be digging into how a pedophile with serious charges against him got such a sweetheart deal. Jeb Bush was governor of Florida from 1999 to 2007, a time when Jeffrey Epstein was active in Florida.

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.
If he wasn't the president I'd agree with you. In fact when he was found guilty of lying to congress I somewhat defended him.
But when you are the so called leader of the free world or at least the leader of our country then he represents you, me, and everyone else in this country. How do you trust a person to be faithful to his position when he can't be faithful to the person they pledge to spend their life with and be faithful to?
I think reporters should be looking into why Epstein got a sweetheart deal. Maybe talking to Clinton is the start of that.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.
If he wasn't the president I'd agree with you. In fact when he was found guilty of lying to congress I somewhat defended him.
But when you are the so called leader of the free world or at least the leader of our country then he represents you, me, and everyone else in this country. How do you trust a person to be faithful to his position when he can't be faithful to the person they pledge to spend their life with and be faithful to?
I think reporters should be looking into why Epstein got a sweetheart deal. Maybe talking to Clinton is the start of that.

Actually, I really doubt that he's the only President who ever cheated or got an executive blow job in the White House and I don't care one bit about our President's sex lives as long as they're legal and consensual. It doesn't really affect my trust of a President to act in the best interests of his country. We already knew about Clinton's roving ways when we elected him and we still elected him.

As for Clinton being a part of the cover up sweetheart deal, Bush was in the White House, Jeb Bush was Governor of Florida and I rather think that due to Prince Andrew's involvement, the government, not Bill Clinton who had severed ties with Epstein when the investigation began, would be the ones who wanted to grant immunity to any possible co-defendants and keep it all out of the media, so as to not have a great big international scandal involving the royal family.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Actually, I really doubt that he's the only President who ever cheated or got an executive blow job in the White House and I don't care one bit about our President's sex lives as long as they're legal and consensual. It doesn't really affect my trust of a President to act in the best interests of his country. We already knew about Clinton's roving ways when we elected him and we still elected him.

As for Clinton being a part of the cover up sweetheart deal, Bush was in the White House, Jeb Bush was Governor of Florida and I rather think that due to Prince Andrew's involvement, the government, not Bill Clinton who had severed ties with Epstein when the investigation began, would be the ones who wanted to grant immunity to any possible co-defendants and keep it all out of the media, so as to not have a great big international scandal involving the royal family.

I voted for Clinton twice. I knew a lot about him but, cheating on his wive was not one of them.
Are you saying now he had permission to cheat?
It also sounds like you are saying Clinton had no influence after he left office.
He severed ties when the investigation began. So he either knew his friend was guilty and tried to distance himself or he's the type of person who throws thier friends under the bus at the first sign of trouble.
Like I said I don't care who's involved as long as the truth comes out.
I posted one link to an Australian news site that said Clinton was going to be asked what he knew about the Prince Andrew scandal.
Sorry that got you all riled up

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I voted for Clinton twice. I knew a lot about him but, cheating on his wive was not one of them.
Are you saying now he had permission to cheat?

Did you miss this during the campaign? "Permission to cheat" ... I've always felt that Hillary and Bill had an agenda that surpassed the ordinary love and romance thing. I do think they're quite fond of each other, but I've never thought that an affair could break that partnership.

Gennifer Flowers came forward during Bill Clinton's 1992 Presidential election campaign, stating that she had had a 12-year relationship with him.

Originally Posted by ThomM

IIt also sounds like you are saying Clinton had no influence after he left office.

He severed ties when the investigation began. So he either knew his friend was guilty and tried to distance himself or he's the type of person who throws thier friends under the bus at the first sign of trouble.

Like I said I don't care who's involved as long as the truth comes out.
I posted one link to an Australian news site that said Clinton was going to be asked what he knew about the Prince Andrew scandal.

Sorry that got you all riled up

Clinton having influence and getting a bunch of serious charges to disappear are two different things. I would suspect that from a Governor, the FBI, the President before I would suspect it from Clinton based on his contact information being in a rolodex.

I would distance myself from Epstein with that kind of investigation going on too if I were in Clinton's position, but the fact is if there were any wrongdoing on his part, the media would certainly have exposed it by now. Even the "girls" denied having sex with Clinton. Epstein threw himself under the bus. Prince Andrew, on the other hand, remained a loyal friend and is even now.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Did you miss this during the campaign? "Permission to cheat" ... I've always felt that Hillary and Bill had an agenda that surpassed the ordinary love and romance thing. I do think they're quite fond of each other, but I've never thought that an affair could break that partnership.

Clinton having influence and getting a bunch of serious charges to disappear are two different things. I would suspect that from a Governor, the FBI, the President before I would suspect it from Clinton based on his contact information being in a rolodex.

I would distance myself from Epstein with that kind of investigation going on too if I were in Clinton's position, but the fact is if there were any wrongdoing on his part, the media would certainly have exposed it by now. Even the "girls" denied having sex with Clinton. Epstein threw himself under the bus. Prince Andrew, on the other hand, remained a loyal friend and is even now.

The thing is Sue, nobody is accusing Clinton of anything. I just think it's hysterical how you are so quick to defend him from accusations nobody is making.
I really don't get why you don't think Clinton should be questioned about what he may or may not know as it pertains to this Prince Andrew scandal.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

The thing is Sue, nobody is accusing Clinton of anything. I just think it's hysterical how you are so quick to defend him from accusations nobody is making.
I really don't get why you don't think Clinton should be questioned about what he may or may not know as it pertains to this Prince Andrew scandal.

It wasn't really anything you said that "riled me up" lol ... it's more the Drudge headline thing

"Bubba and the Palm Beach Pedophile" that irks me. He apparently hasn't so far been questioned I think ... I read that no deposition was taken from him, and I can well imagine that he'd like to avoid being involved in Prince Andrew's dirty laundry. The time has passed that Andrew could be prosecuted for anything he did in the US. The deal made sure of that. So what does this story accomplish? Embarrassment for the royal family? A big juicy sex scandal for everyone to talk about? I really don't know. Are they looking to break the plea deal somehow and prosecute Andrew?

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

It wasn't really anything you said that "riled me up" lol ... it's more the Drudge headline thing

"Bubba and the Palm Beach Pedophile" that irks me. He apparently hasn't so far been questioned I think ... I read that no deposition was taken from him, and I can well imagine that he'd like to avoid being involved in Prince Andrew's dirty laundry. The time has passed that Andrew could be prosecuted for anything he did in the US. The deal made sure of that. So what does this story accomplish? Embarrassment for the royal family? A big juicy sex scandal for everyone to talk about? I really don't know. Are they looking to break the plea deal somehow and prosecute Andrew?

I tend to not pay attention to stuff like that, which I guess is why I was confused.

As far as the rest goes, if not for this thread I wouldn't have known anything about all this. The only reason I even posted the link about Clinton was because of a search on Epstein, like whatever said.

I suppose it isn't really a sex scandal unless Bill Clinton's involved.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I tend to not pay attention to stuff like that, which I guess is why I was confused.

I suppose it isn't really a sex scandal unless Bill Clinton's involved.

^^^^^^^^^
That's the truth. Like I said, I believe that Hillary either has her own secrets or their marriage is a partnership of minds and careers and ambitions more than love and romance.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

^^^^^^^^^
That's the truth. Like I said, I believe that Hillary either has her own secrets or their marriage is a partnership of minds and careers and ambitions more than love and romance.

You could be right. The only affair of Hillary that really bothers me is the one she is having with the bio-tech industry and monsanto.

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sbucciarel Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

You could be right. The only affair of Hillary that really bothers me is the one she is having with the bio-tech industry and monsanto.

I think it's going to be nearly impossible to find a candidate that makes the finals that isn't in Monsanto's pocket. They all are, giving Monsanto unbelievable power for a corporation.
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Cam Connor

11 years ago

I haven't read into the story, though I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with that picture. They look like they were both having a good time.

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Alexa Smith Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Cam Connor

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with that picture.

Context is everything: the girl in the picture was involved in the circumstances and background to a situation in which a friend of the Prince's was convicted of soliciting an underage girl for prostitution, and became a registered sex offender - perhaps a little less than "ideal publicity" for one of the sons of the UK's reigning monarch?

.
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ForumGuru

Banned 11 years ago

Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz accused of doing the same underage girl --> who'd have thunk it?!?

Dershowitz: ‘I’m an Innocent Victim of an Extortion Conspiracy’ - Law Blog - WSJ

Case No. 08-80736-Civ-Marra/Johnson

One such powerful individual that Epstein forced then-minor Jane Doe #3 to have sexual
relations with was former Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, a close friend of Epstein’s
and well-known criminal defense attorney. Epstein required Jane Doe #3 to have sexual
relations with Dershowitz on numerous occasions while she was a minor, not only in Florida but
also on private planes, in New York, New Mexico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. In addition to
being a participant in the abuse of Jane Doe #3 and other minors, Deshowitz was an eye-witness
to the sexual abuse of many other minors by Epstein and several of Epstein’s co-conspirators.
Dershowitz would later play a significant role in negotiating the NPA on Epstein’s behalf.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...dershowitz.pdf

Cheers

-don

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RayLee

11 years ago

That reminds me a scene in Gone Girl, a photo could be telling but could be also deceiving.

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WalkingCarpet Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by RayLee

That reminds me a scene in Gone Girl, a photo could be telling but could be also deceiving.

That movie turned me off women for good
Joseph come here babe.
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MikeAmbrosio

11 years ago

Oh my - a sex scandal! How rare these are...

Ok everyone - look over HERE at this juicy sex scandal. Not over THERE, where we don't want you to...

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thunderbird

11 years ago

"The Decline of the Illuminati"? LOL. What does Koo Stark have to say about all this?

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Project HERE.

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Jamie Thompson

11 years ago

100% with certainty he did. All of the royals and elites are involved in these pedophile rings and it has been documented to death. It is like a club they have to belong to for some reason. Simple search elite pedophile rings documentarys on youtube and you will see so much more with backed up documentation.

They are all protected by corrupt judges, media, and leaders involved in the same thing. It takes a TON to expose even this. The rabbit hole goes much deeper.

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thunderbird

11 years ago

All right, I laughed when someone told me that Eyes Wide Shut was essentially a documentary. I'm not so sure it wasn't any more.
Alan Dershowitz Named in Child Sex Sting | Veterans Today

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ForumGuru

Banned 11 years ago

@ Thunderbird

Yeah, crazy stuff. I posted a link to the court document Dershowitz was named in yesterday. (Case No. 08-80736-Civ-Marra/Johnson)

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9792776

Cheers

-don

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DireStraits 11 years ago

I doubt we'll ever know the truth about this and a lot of other significant cases of alleged sexual offences involving people in high places, particularly as long as any of the accused are still living.

The domino effect has the potential to be huge. Look at the Savile affair. That's nowhere near ended. Whenever outsiders are allowed close to the royals, they're vetted to within an inch of their lives. A lot of work goes into preserving the illusion of absolute moral rectitude of significant members of "the family firm". And nobody had so much as an inkling about Savile and co?

Surely there are bound to have been royals in recent times who have done unspeakable things behind closed doors and abused their power and social capital to get off scot-free.

Don't forget, too, that we're dealing with a reigning bloodline going back centuries. It's not all so easily replaced as an elected president and his/her administration. The deposition of the royals would entail massive constitutional and practical ramifications however you look at it.

And in the end, the only comfort we'd likely have is that the next scumbag to abuse the trust and goodwill of the people would at least be one most of us had chosen. Hardly fills you with candyfloss, does it?
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HeySal

11 years ago

Where's the surprise here? The global elite have become so money/power addicted that they now see themselves as "above" human status. They do exactly as they please. The days of integrity and principles are gone. It's a surprise when one of them goes to any length to even hide anything anymore. The rest of the world is irrelevant. We are nothing more than factory farmed to support them in their eyes.

This is why I try to stress to people that until we get rid of the elitist continuum in our offices and admin, we're not going to see anything improve.

If you need a reference for this ideology - read "Animal Farm" - if it's still in Library's or on bookshelves. I know it's been decided in many schools to ban the book - for our own good, of course.

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When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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Emailrevealer 11 years ago

I'm doing a live radio show about this story this evening 5 PM PST You can listen here Opperman Report Listen Live | TalkStreamLive | www.talkstreamlive.com

The girl in the pic is 17 at the time but she was 15 when she was first molested by Jeffrey Epstein. She's not writing a book but you can read her affidavits by googling the case #
Go to Pacer, case number 08-80736. All public pleadings in the Federal action are there.

the lawsuit that brought all this out in the open is against the federal Govt , it's not for money but to get the 'non prosecution agreement" overturned. The plea dealing this case is sealed but the defendant only severed 16 hours a day for 13 months in a vacant wing of jail located in a police dept he donated 90k to....

There are over 40 victims in Florida, household servants reported he was molesting 2 to 3 little girls as young as 12 EVERYDAY.

The woman in the background, Ghislaine Maxwell, is accused of the same crimes but has never been charged. She recently attended Chelsea Clintons wedding.
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Prince Andrew: Did He or Didn't He?

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