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3 feet from a Super Bowl

by Jeff Burritt Banned
12 replies
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If you're 3 feet from winning the Super Bowl, and you have one of the best running backs in the league, you'd pass too right.
#patriots #seahawks #superbowl
  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    There was a great reader comment on ESPN speculating that Seattle expected NE to call a time-out. But Belichick saw that Seattle did not have their running team on the field so he did not call a time out.

    This caught Seattle off-guard and in the confusion they did not have time to make substitutions so they had to run a quick pass to score or get an incomplete and score on the next play.

    Carroll did let slip in his post game comments that one reason he ran that play was because they had the wrong personnel on the field. That lends some credence to the theory.

    You could say Seattle could have used the timeout, but then they may not have had time for a 4th down play.

    Anyway, interesting idea that would be an extremely bold coaching move by NE to let the clock run.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Burritt
      Banned
      Still, I'm guessing the SeaHawks Offensive coordinator is hoping it was all just a bad dream.


      Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

      There was a great reader comment on ESPN speculating that Seattle expected NE to call a time-out. But Belichick saw that Seattle did not have their running team on the field so he did not call a time out.

      This caught Seattle off-guard and in the confusion they did not have time to make substitutions so they had to run a quick pass to score or get an incomplete and score on the next play.

      Carroll did let slip in his post game comments that one reason he ran that play was because they had the wrong personnel on the field. That lends some credence to the theory.

      You could say Seattle could have used the timeout, but then they may not have had time for a 4th down play.

      Anyway, interesting idea that would be an extremely bold coaching move by NE to let the clock run.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

      There was a great reader comment on ESPN speculating that Seattle expected NE to call a time-out. But Belichick saw that Seattle did not have their running team on the field so he did not call a time out.

      This caught Seattle off-guard and in the confusion they did not have time to make substitutions so they had to run a quick pass to score or get an incomplete and score on the next play.

      Carroll did let slip in his post game comments that one reason he ran that play was because they had the wrong personnel on the field. That lends some credence to the theory.

      You could say Seattle could have used the timeout, but then they may not have had time for a 4th down play.

      Anyway, interesting idea that would be an extremely bold coaching move by NE to let the clock run.

      The Pats were the smarter team, made fewer mistakes of all kinds and this time the smarter more disciplined team won.

      The Hawks had at least a couple of chances to score when they were up 24-14 and could have cracked the game wide open - but they did not.


      Note: The Pats are not going to beat themselves.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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      Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

      There was a great reader comment on ESPN speculating that Seattle expected NE to call a time-out. But Belichick saw that Seattle did not have their running team on the field so he did not call a time out.

      This caught Seattle off-guard and in the confusion they did not have time to make substitutions so they had to run a quick pass to score or get an incomplete and score on the next play.

      Carroll did let slip in his post game comments that one reason he ran that play was because they had the wrong personnel on the field. That lends some credence to the theory.

      You could say Seattle could have used the timeout, but then they may not have had time for a 4th down play.

      Anyway, interesting idea that would be an extremely bold coaching move by NE to let the clock run.
      We were discussing the terrible goal line call last night on this thread:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9853264

      Seattle had plenty of time to run 2 running plays (and a pass play if they wanted) as long it was not intercepted.

      The pass call on second down was a horrible call. Carroll said in his interview immediately following the game that they thought they had the call for the Pats goal line set, and if it didn't work, inferred that they were going to run it on third and fourth down (if needed). They had plenty of time to pound it twice from the one as they had the timeout left.

      Beast Mode lead the league in TD's, was second in the league in yardage after first contact, and he earned the name Beast Mode by running over and through people time and time again and it was his time last night. He just gave them 4 yards from the 5 on the previous play for gosh sake. If they were not going to give it to him on second down then they should have let Russell run the read option and at least fake it to him. Do that and they still had another run play left if Russell does not score.

      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Okay, fair enough reasoning:
      It was a horrible call any way you look at it. As I mentioned just a few minutes after the game last night I think Bevell and/or Carroll were trying to squeeze in a (potential) third play by calling that pass and it cost them, the team, and the Seattle fans dearly. If they wanted to squeeze a third play in with a bit less risk then they could have ran the ball on second down (26 sec), called the timeout if they did not score, then throw the pass on 3rd down (maybe 18-20 sec left), and if it falls incomplete then run it again (or pass if you must) on what may have been be the final play of the game with 10 or so seconds left.

      Anyway, I believe if Seattle would have tried pounding it in from the one they would be in possession of another Lombardi Trophy right now.

      FWIW that was the first pick thrown by any team from the one yard line all season.

      Cheers

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author onSubie
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        We were discussing the terrible goal line call last night on this thread:

        I think the ball was just slightly under inflated which took some 'zip' off the pass causing a fraction of a second delay in the ball speed to the receiver allowing the defender to barely sneak in at the last moment and intercept.


        Use a properly inflated ball and that pass is complete...


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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    My initial thoughts are that a little hubris was at play here. Rather than take the easy TD, the coaching staff, probably ol' Pete, decided that Marshawn wasn't to get the accolades. He's caused internal and external strife, some embarrassment, and, from reports, has already told MGMT he won't be back.


    On the other side, Wilson's the face of the team and has an expiring contract. Let's make him happy and let him be responsible for the winning TD. Could help in negotiations and helps build his legend.


    But, by doing so, they left themselves open to a greater chance of failure.


    Again, just my initial reaction at the time. I couldn't think of a rational answer at the time other than managing who received the accolades.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      My initial thoughts are that a little hubris was at play here. Rather than take the easy TD, the coaching staff, probably ol' Pete, decided that Marshawn wasn't to get the accolades. He's caused internal and external strife, some embarrassment, and, from reports, has already told MGMT he won't be back.

      On the other side, Wilson's the face of the team and has an expiring contract. Let's make him happy and let him be responsible for the winning TD. Could help in negotiations and helps build his legend.

      But, by doing so, they left themselves open to a greater chance of failure.

      Again, just my initial reaction at the time. I couldn't think of a rational answer at the time other than managing who received the accolades.
      That exact same thought crossed my mind last night, while certainly not a given, it may have meant having to give Beast Mode whatever he wanted next season and beyond. It's just a guess, but they had little other reason for not handing the ball to Beast Mode on second down. Marshawn was built for situations just like that one and he should have gotten the ball in last night. He was over a hundred and if he scores his second TD of the game it would have been the game winner, and if does not get the wants and Seattle falls well short next year, many folks would not be happy. That said, I don't think too many Seattle fans are happy he did not get the carry last night.

      As I have mentioned a couple of times before, if they absolutely thought the needed three plays to stick it in from the one they could have ran Beast Mode on second down, called a timeout if he did not score, passed it on third down, and if it falls incomplete then they have the Pats guessing on the fourth down call.

      Cheers

      -don
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Okay, fair enough reasoning:


    This is the most persuasive defense of Pete Carroll's decision to throw that pass - Vox
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    pats have stopped runs from 1yd out once all year.

    hawks just made a miracle catch.

    they are amped full of adrenaline

    they RUN the ball 5yds to the 1.

    they could have knocked the entire pat defense out the back of the end zone at that point.

    they pass? not that a slant isn't too terrible, but not running in that situation was just a boneheaded move. they had plenty of time.

    they lose.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Pete Carol's explanation of their decision to pass makes sense. They pass and it's a TD or incomplete. (I guess they never considered a pick was possible)

    An incompletion stops the clock and they get a couple of chances to pound it in using their remaining TO. Like everyone else, I thought they'd use Beastie but they made a gutsy call earlier in the game going for,and making a TD when a field goal was almost a sure thing.

    Wilson has been making amazing plays all year so the goal line pass play isn't all that weird. Being a Pats fan I'm glad they took the chance.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Pete Carol's explanation of their decision to pass makes sense. They pass and it's a TD or incomplete. (I guess they never considered a pick was possible)

      An incompletion stops the clock and they get a couple of chances to pound it in using their remaining TO. Like everyone else, I thought they'd use Beastie but they made a gutsy call earlier in the game going for,and making a TD when a field goal was almost a sure thing.

      Wilson has been making amazing plays all year so the goal line pass play isn't all that weird. Being a Pats fan I'm glad they took the chance.
      No offense intended, but It did not make much sense to most of the football world considering they are sitting at the one yard line and they have Beast Mode and Russell Wilson on the squad. Russell is also a very dangerous runner with 118 carries for 849 yards with 6 TD and a massive 7.2 YPC average in 2014. During this postseason he had 17 more carries for 86 yards for a 5.1 average and a TD. Beast Mode led the league in rushing TDs and totalled 1300+ yards on 4.7 a carry during the regular season. In the postseason he ran for another 318 yards and 2 touchdowns averaging 5 yards a carry.

      They could have pounded Beast Mode (or ran Wilson) on second down, and if it doesn't score then call the time out, pass the ball on third down, and if it falls incomplete then they have time to run or pass it again on fourth down.

      It's less risky than trying to jam that pass in on second down and you still get three plays from the one if you need them. Trying to cram that ball into that super tight space turned out to be a very big mistake...let us not forget Wilson had just tossed 4 picks in the NFC Championship game.

      This season (including the playoffs) the Patriots had allowed five touchdowns on six rushes from the one (83%). Only the Eagles and Redskins allowed touchdowns on a higher percentage of rush plays from one yard line (100%).

      While I (and most others) would not have passed it on second down, Wilson was 6-7 on play-action passes (for 132 yards) during the game, but on that fatal pass play, they chose not to call a play-action pass. That said, during his career Beast Mode has scored on only 45% of his attempts from the one, and he was only 1-5 from the one this season.

      Cheers

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        No offense intended, but It did not make much sense to most of the football world considering they are sitting at the one yard line and they have Beast Mode and Russell Wilson on the squad. Russell is a very dangerous runner with 118 carries for 849 yards with 6 TD and a massive 7.2 YPC average in 2014. During this postseason he had 17 more carries for 86 yards for a 5.1 average and a TD. Beast Mode led the league in rushing TDs and totalled 1300+ yards on 4.7 a carry during the regular season. In the postseason he ran for another 318 yards and 2 touchdowns averaging 5 yards a carry.

        They could have pounded Beast Mode (or ran Wilson) on second down, and if it doesn't score then call the time out, pass the ball on third down, and if it falls incomplete then they have time to run or pass it again on fourth down.

        It's less risky than trying to jam that pass in on second down and you still get three plays from the one if you need them. Trying to cram that ball into that super tight space turned out to be a very big mistake...let us not forget Wilson had just tossed 4 picks in the NFC Championship game.

        This season (including the playoffs) the Patriots had allowed five touchdowns on six rushes from the one (83%). Only the Eagles and Redskins allowed touchdowns on a higher percentage of rush plays from one yard line (100%).

        While I (and most others) would not have passed it on second down, Wilson was 6-7 on play-action passes (for 132 yards) during the game, but on that fatal pass play, they chose not to call a play-action pass. That said, during his career Beast Mode has scored on only 45% of his attempts from the one, and he was only 1-5 from the one this season.

        Cheers

        -don
        No offence taken. In fact, I agree with you. I'm just repeating what Carol said. This is all he has and he's going to have to try and sell it to the team, owners and everyone else. He's already admitted, in hind sight, it was a terrible call.
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